Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Apr 2025

Vol. 1065 No. 3

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Today, parents of children with special needs from across the country will again begin an overnight sleep-out at the gates of Leinster House. These parents cannot find suitable school places for their children. It is a deep and long-standing crisis. Notwithstanding the Taoiseach's answer to Members earlier, the fact is that hundreds of children are locked out of the education to which they are entitled. When I raised this crisis with him in February, he said he would do everything to ensure that every child waiting for a school place got one in September.

However, the parents are now beside themselves with worry because, following a meeting with the Minister for Education, no such guarantee was made or given. These children and parents deserve that guarantee. They should not be forced to protest again outside the Dáil. Will the Taoiseach now again give a clear-cut commitment that every child will have access to a suitable school place come September?

The Taoiseach

As I said earlier to Deputy Bacik, who raised this on Leaders' Questions - I have just responded to Deputy Nolan, who has also raised this issue - the Government's obligation is to vindicate the right of every child to education and to a school place. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, are working flat out with the National Council for Special Education and the Department of Education to make sure there will be a sufficiency of places for the school year beginning next September and throughout. That means additional special schools. Three hundred and seventy-two extra classes have already been sanctioned and there is engagement now with other schools with a view to those schools taking on additional needs children and providing additional places.

Deputy Ciarán Ahern

As the Taoiseach knows, today is World Autism Awareness Day. I ask about the supports and therapies that are available for children with additional needs in my constituency of Dublin South-West. As the Taoiseach knows, we are all being contacted constantly by parents at their wits' end who are seeking crucial and urgent interventions for their children, be it speech and language therapy, occupational therapy or psychology. Waiting lists for assessments of need are in their thousands and even waiting for a follow-up services statement and getting access to the therapies can take years.

In the Ballyboden primary care centre in my constituency, we have gone from five speech and language therapists in 2022 to one part-timer. Our local CDNT is struggling to get staff. It is competing with the HSE for staff because it is a section 39 agency. We have schools that are opening additional special classes, which is fantastic, but with the number of students with additional needs increasing, the wraparound supports for those special classes and the therapies the students need have to increase as well.

The Taoiseach

I am not disagreeing with anything the Deputy is saying. The issue is solutions and we have got to work on it. My own view is that the progressing disability programme, which was developed back in about 2013, has not worked, or the particular models. I want to pay tribute to people working in CDNTs because they have had huge burdens and workloads but the problem is, prior to 2013, special schools had therapists. They were taken out of the special schools and spread more widely. In my view, those with severe and profound needs lost out.

There is no easy solution to it but we need to provide a therapy service in education, and we need to do that in the first instance with special schools. This is something I have been focused on for quite a long time. I acknowledge the frustration. In the last term of the previous Government, we were not in a position to get it over the line but we have made it clear we want to do it this time. That is not the full answer but it at least allows for and would create a multidisciplinary within the special schools that we could then evaluate and expand to the broader school system.

Deputy Gary Gannon

Today marks World Autism Awareness Day. Aligning themselves with the occasion, there will be up to 200 parents and guardians who will sleep on the pavement outside Dáil Éireann today. It will be the second time they have done so in a number of weeks. They are doing so for a plethora of different reasons related to assessments, diagnoses, therapies, school places and access to SNA provision. However, there is a common thread that aligns with all of those parents and guardians, that is, paying for what their children are being asked to go without.

Acting upon that pain, those parents became legal experts. They have had to take on therapeutic practices themselves just to provide the service to their children that the State is failing to give. We have talked about it in a number of different ways. I understand what the Taoiseach will say to us regarding what his intention is. I hope he might, or somebody from his Department or members of his Government will-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Gary Gannon

What would the Taoiseach say to those 200 parents outside on the pavement today if he were to talk to them?

The Taoiseach

The Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, have met the parents. We are saying we are doing everything we can to provide places. We have already provided 372 school classes. We are making very significant progress this year. Delivery is more important than making promises. Next September, we want every child to have a school place that is appropriate for the child. That is what is being worked on right now.

The Minister and Minister of State are saying - the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, spoke to me this morning - that for next year, they want the applications brought forward to November of this year for the following school year, and that the NCSE and the Department would have in place by 2026 - that is the aim - a common application system where people would apply in November and where there would be a liaison with parents and schools to make sure that children would get places early, taking the anxiety out of it.

Deputy Charles Ward

I am sure the Taoiseach is aware there are extremely long waiting lists for driving tests across the country. I have been contacted by many of my constituents who are taking tests in Letterkenny, Donegal town and Buncrana. As the Taoiseach can imagine, when people do manage to secure a test, it is important that it go ahead. Unfortunately, this was not the case for one of my constituents, whose test was immediately terminated because the insurance disc on his car was printed in black and white. This is completely unacceptable. It is unacceptable that most insurance companies, rather than post them out, now require customers to print their own discs in a bid to save costs. Most people, including myself, were unaware of the colour printing requirement. Does this requirement expand beyond driving tests? If there was an accident, would a car with a black-and-white disc legally be insured? Will the Taoiseach look into this matter and ensure that people are not being penalised for having black-and-white discs?

The Taoiseach

I am not an expert on discs in terms of presentation and so on. I will ask the Minister responsible to come back to me on it and to respond to the specific query the Deputy raised this morning, if that is okay.

Deputy Ken O'Flynn

In August 2023, the Before 5 Family Centre in Churchfield closed its doors, discommoding over 100 families who were left scrambling to find alternative places for their children. At that time, there was a commitment given by the previous Government that it would try to resource and fund this. Prior to the general election, as I am sure the Taoiseach knows, it was announced that funding of up to €250,000 would be made available for the centre through Northside Community Enterprises, in tandem with the Diocese of Cork and Ross. It was very much announced in the local press and it appeared on Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael newsletters and propaganda prior to the election, but to date, there has not been a shovel put in the ground. The gates remain closed. No builder has been appointed. Nobody has been appointed, actually. Are we still on target? Is the €250,000 ring-fenced for it and when can we expect the Before 5 Family Centre, which was 50 years in the community, to be reopened?

The Taoiseach

I am very familiar with the service, and Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan would have raised it with me. I think Councillor Tony Fitzgerald, as the Deputy knows, has done fantastic work in that area over the years and has been very active on this. Hence the allocation. I spoke to the former Minister, Roderic O'Gorman, on foot of representations from Deputy O'Sullivan and Councillor Fitzgerald specifically on this issue. I will check with Deputy O'Flynn on what the issues are around the building and the delays. The Deputy might know some background himself as to why it has not physically got under way. I will certainly pursue that.

By the way, the Four-Faced Liar did get funding, as in, the Shandon clock.

Deputy Ken O'Flynn

I am delighted to deliver for my constituency.

Deputy John McGuinness

On Monday night last in the community hall in Ballyouskill, County Kilkenny, a community came together. It was a packed hall. Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan was there also with local councillors. We were there to discuss the Ballynalacken wind farm development. The community was forced to come together to fundraise and fight against the company making the application, which is well-heeled and well financed. The Taoiseach outlined his position on this in support of communities back in 2013. Will the Government introduce a moratorium on such applications until such time as the 2006 regulations are updated and made available and the playing field is levelled? At the moment, communities are at a disadvantage. They are volunteering themselves to defend their position and it is urgent that action be taken in this regard.

The Taoiseach

I am not familiar with the full background of the specific application and this specific wind farm development. Obviously, I would want to be apprised of that in terms of what the issues are around planning and so forth.

The Government will not be introducing a moratorium on onshore wind, however. It is just simply not in a position to do that given the huge pressures we are under in terms of the increasing prices, particularly of a predominantly fossil fuel-based model at the moment. That will continue for quite some time. We have to get more renewables. Hopefully, offshore wind will be the way of the future. We are hoping we can get the first offshore wind farms before 2030. That would take pressure off the onshore sector because there has been significant onshore development in Ireland, which is making a huge contribution to electricity generation. Ireland is under a lot of pressure on the energy question-----

Deputy John McGuinness

Six regulation-----

The Taoiseach

We do not have great resources other than wind and solar-----

Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan

The Government should not be putting-----

The Taoiseach

----- but I will talk to the Minister in respect of the guidelines as to when they will be issued. I will come back to Deputy McGuinness on that.

Deputy Colm Burke

I raise the number of dental training places that are available in the universities in Ireland. It has not increased in the past 25 years, yet the population has increased by 1.5 million. The number of dentists taking part in the dental treatment services scheme has reduced from 1,492 to 810, which means 682 fewer dentists are available under the scheme. There is an urgent need to increase the number of training places in universities for dental students, which is quite easy to do. A total of 44% of current students attending Irish universities are from overseas. Why can we not use those places for training Irish students? It is about funding, and the reason they are bringing people from overseas is the funding. It is an easy matter to deal with. There is also a need for funding of more than €20 million between UCC and Trinity College Dublin to increase the number of places. I ask that the matter be dealt with before September 2025.

The Taoiseach

I fully accept that there is a real need and issue with regard to expanding capacity of undergraduate dentistry places in Ireland. I understand that the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland RCSI will be producing approximately 75 graduate dentists. There is an issue as there will be 25 Irish and EU graduates and 40 non-EU graduates. RCSI is hoping to increase capacity by approximately 20 extra places. Then we have UCC and Trinity College Dublin. We need greater coherence from the other colleges as to what their priorities are from a capital investment point of view. The Department of Health and others are working with these colleges with a view to seeing how we can increase the number of dentistry places. I take the Deputy's point about the need for interim solutions.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

All EU citizens and their family members have the right to move and reside freely within the EU. This fundamental right is established in EU treaty law and the decision to expel an EU citizen is the highest form of restriction on freedom of movement. Two Irish citizens, Shane O'Brien and Roberta Murray, have been issued with deportation orders because of their values. Neither of these individuals has been convicted of a related crime, and my query is: is opposition to genocide not an EU value?

For context, I was raised by a German mother. I am half-German and I like to keep a close eye on German politics. I have been very concerned with the heavy-handed approach Germany has taken to peaceful pro-Palestine protestors. These people are being deported on policy grounds. Will the Taoiseach stand up for one of the three fundamental freedoms of the EU? Will he stand up for the rights of these Irish and EU citizens?

Deputy Conor D. McGuinness

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

I am aware of reports in the media in respect of a decision ordering two Irish citizens to leave Germany. That is of fundamental concern in terms of the freedom of movement rights that EU citizens have. Approximately four individuals, I believe, are being deported, including two Irish citizens, namely, Shane O'Brien and Roberta Murray. The other individuals are from the United States and Poland. The embassy in Berlin, I understand, has raised the matter with the German foreign ministry, and we will raise this issue with the German authorities. Each of the four is apparently facing differing charges. It is reflective of a completely different climate in Germany as opposed to here or other European countries in respect of the Middle East and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have been saying that for ages in the House. This is a manifestation of that. I am not justifying it in any shape or form; it is just illustrative of a completely different approach taken to protest to Germany on this issue as opposed to what would be taken here.

Deputy William Aird

The previous Government introduced a waiver scheme for people who were building first-time homes. It included council charges plus Uisce Éireann charges. On 31 December 2024, this was stopped. When this was introduced, it set out all the principles and achieved the objective of speedier activation of planning permissions by the development sector. It also escalated planning permissions that had been granted for a number of years and were not activated, and caused a higher rate of housing commencements. The Taoiseach will remember when he started out in his first house with his wife, Mary, how difficult it was to save up. This waiver is something the previous Government brought in for people who do not get any other contribution, such as the social housing waiting list. This was an opportunity and was very well received by people, where there could be savings of €5,000 up to €25,000, depending on the county. It was really worthwhile for these people. The Taoiseach knows how difficult it is to save up to €10,000 or €20,000 before a block is even laid for a house. That is something the previous Government did, and I am asking the Taoiseach to please consider doing it again.

The Taoiseach

The individual buyers from the help to buy or first home schemes, which are very significant interventions by the Government. The waiver of development levies goes to the builders. It has led-----

Deputy William Aird

Not necessarily.

The Taoiseach

Yes.

Deputy William Aird

If you build your own house-----

The Taoiseach

Okay. In general, it went to all sorts of applicants. The bottom line is there were approximately 60,000 commencements, which we now need to see them completed and delivered. We are not extending it. I want to make it very clear to everyone out there: build what you have signed up for and get it built before the end of 2026.

Deputy William Aird

The Taoiseach is being very unfair.

The Taoiseach

No, I am not-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy. It is not a back and forth.

The Taoiseach

This will go on and on forever. I will talk to the Deputy again.

Deputy William Aird

For a house in one's own garden. The Taoiseach's son could be building a house in a rural area.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Aird, this is not a back and forth.

Deputy Cathal Crowe

Deputy Aird might give me some time now.

I was recently given a tour of the new 96-bed block that is under construction at University Hospital Limerick, UHL. It will be completed by the end of May, and by September for patient occupation. It is modern, and will help hugely in terms of public healthcare. As we reached the top floor, the builders pointed out that is where the new 96-bed block will go, and further back in the carpark they aim to build another 96-bed block. I made the point to the builders and HSE management that they should just keep going up and up,but they were told and advised that the current planning regulations mean they can only build a 96-bed block at a time. Anything exceeding that has to go through the strategic infrastructure development route and An Bord Pleanála, therefore making it longer and more arduous. A planning fix here could allow for these new 96-bed blocks to go a few storeys higher and accommodate more wards and beds. It is a technical issue, and is something the Minister for housing will hopefully have to fix, but that planning fix could be transformative. It would mean not having to dig new foundations or build new towers. We could build up on a building that is fully load-bearing. It can go higher, and we can provide more beds.

The Taoiseach

I will have to examine that. Presumably, they could have applied for more at the time if that is what they wanted to build.

Deputy Cathal Crowe

It would have pushed them to An Bord Pleanála.

Deputy Conor Sheehan

Yes.

The Taoiseach

Anything will push you to An Bord Pleanála. That facility was created to enable them to get a faster permission and to go directly to An Bord Pleanála. I will check the background to this, but my understanding is 96-beds is what was sanctioned from an earlier bed review. I will check it out, because we want to provide beds as quickly as we possibly can in UHL. Obviously, it has to be done legally but I will examine what the Deputy has said.

Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan

I raise the case of a young William Jonathan Moore, a four-year-old boy from Kilkenny who has been diagnosed with a life-threatening condition, Duchenne muscular dystrophy, DMD. This condition is so rare that no treatment is available in Ireland. William has been accepted at the Boston Children's Hospital for treatment. However, as I am sure the Taoiseach is aware, the treatment abroad scheme does not currently cover the United States. The State has a duty to provide care to children such as William to be treated in Ireland or abroad. At the moment, William's future is dependent on the goodwill of the public via a GoFundMe page for treatment and local fundraisers. We have had bespoke arrangements in the past for children with rare conditions, where the only treatment options were in the United States. I am asking that the Minister for Health engages with the HSE and William's family to ensure that they are supported to get the treatment and that the Department works to develop support for any future cases of DMD.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the case of William Jonathan Moore.

Normally, the treatment abroad section is very responsive to cases. I understand that the guidelines stipulate treatment should be within the European Union, although with the common travel area with Britain, we also send people with rare conditions to get treatment in the UK. If the Deputy can send me the full details of the case, I will certainly examine it. The child should get-----

Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan

It is only available in the United States.

The Taoiseach

If it is only available in the US, we should do something about that. I will come back to the Deputy about it and will talk to the Minister for Health.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Today is World Autism Awareness Day. Children with autism are being abandoned in south Tipperary. The HSE has confirmed that the waiting time for autism assessments is now in excess of two years. A total of 233 children are waiting for an autism assessment. Cara Darmody was told in the past that children could access assessments privately if the HSE continued to fail but that is not happening. Beyond that, I have repeatedly raised the difficulty of children with autism getting appropriate school places. At least 17 children in south Tipperary are waiting for a placement in a special school while many others are waiting for placement in special classes. The Minister for Education said that she will force schools to take places, but we have schools that are waiting for places and will not be allowed to give them. On this day especially, will the Taoiseach please try to do something to alleviate this? I know much progress has been made with a number of new special schools recently and indeed at a number of new special classes in south Tipperary. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, for his engagement and for his recent visit to Cashel. We need to do more for the likes of young Michael Barrett in Cahir and others who are waiting.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising these issues. If he could identify those schools with places that are, for some reason, not being filled, I will take that up with the Minister. I know the Deputy has been engaged with the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Bansha National School.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy might provide them to me afterwards. Our immediate focus is on getting places for all children. I understand that in the Munster area more generally, that is more or less on track, and we just want to keep on top of it. As I said earlier during Other Members' Questions, there are still challenges in Dublin.

Deputy Conor Sheehan

I raise the issue of University Maternity Hospital Limerick and the long-awaited need to colocate the maternity hospital with the main acute hospital in the region. University Maternity Hospital Limerick delivers excellent care with good outcomes for mothers and babies. However, there is no ICU or blood bank on-site and the building has not changed significantly since I entered the world myself nearly 32 years ago. Much of the focus at UHL is rightly on the acute bed shortages and staff shortages in the UL Hospital Group but it is vital that this colocation, which the Minister for Health said in a parliamentary question reply to me is the next maternity colocation to be considered, goes ahead, because there are no ownership or land issues with this. When will a strategic assessment report and preliminary business case for this be completed?

The Taoiseach

I do not have the specific timelines on that but I can revert to the Deputy. I fully support the concept of colocation. The absence of colocation is a sad indictment of many of the healthcare structures and some of the hospitals themselves. The most significant colocation happened in the early 2000s with Cork University Maternity Hospital because the two hospitals involved and the private hospital in the city agreed to it. It happened and then we have had the Holles Street saga, which went on for far too long. it is incredible that it has not happened in other locations. Limerick seems to me to be the more obvious one, where there is apparently not a land issue. There will be huge expenditure, it will be subject to resources and so on, but at least the group could start doing all the planning, site assessment and so on. I will talk to the Minister about that.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

I want to raise the issue of school funding. Yesterday, the Taoiseach informed the Dáil about the work of the financial support services unit in the Department of Education. Three school principals have been in touch with me who do not want to make a public matter of the issue but who want to get to the bottom of funding issues they are having. I have looked at the books in some of these schools. There are big questions about the funding for insurance, heating and cleaning. All of them are schools that in the sixties and seventies would have had 700 or 800 pupils and are now operating at 15% or 20% of that. There is an issue in the Department with those large schools. I encourage the Minister to try to come up with a bespoke solution bespoke for them. They are located all across north Dublin. We need to examine how we are funding them in addition to the capitation grant, while ensuring that they retain responsibility for managing their own finances. This is a real issue.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising that. He is correct that there is an issue. Issues can always emerge. There are many older schools that had huge numbers in the past, which have declined significantly. They are in older buildings, are harder to heat and have issues. I will talk to the Minister about whether we could devise a bespoke solution that would help schools in certain circumstances to more sustainably deal with the financial pressures they are under.

Deputy Michael Murphy

It is important that we maximise the impact of our Presidency of the European Union next year. It is such an important event for Ireland. Perhaps the Taoiseach will provide an update on the preplanning of our Presidency. Have there been any discussions of key priorities for our Presidency, having regard to the timing of the Presidency? It will include the next round of discussions on the multi-annual financial framework, with pressures on increased spending in the areas of defence, climate and digitalisation. Can the Taoiseach provide any assurance to farmers in my constituency of Tipperary South and across Ireland that a key priority for our Presidency will be an increase in the Common Agricultural Policy budget, which works for farmers across Ireland and, more importantly, which encourages more young farmers and new entrants into the area of food production?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. The multi-annual financial framework negotiations are starting. We had a first meeting last week, which was a general tour de table type of exploratory meeting. I made it clear that Ireland was interested in protecting the common agricultural payments system and the CAP, as well as investment in the Horizon research programme, which is important. The problem will be that everybody is looking for more funding for more new initiatives. Defence is looming now as an issue that people want to have some provision inserted into the multi-annual financial framework for their member states to avail of. This would require alternative revenue sources. The Commission is looking at own resources. We favour the GNI metric, which would mean an increased contribution from us but would be fairer and more transparent. There are two issues here. Can we increase the budget in a realistic way to accommodate the increased needs? The CAP is important to us, as is food production more generally.

Deputy Conor D. McGuinness

The world waits with bated breath to see what the announcements from Washington will be. Workers and families across the State and in my constituency of Waterford are anxious. They are wondering about their jobs and the impact of these tariffs on the wider economy, particularly the pharma sector. The pharma sector is incredibly important in Waterford city and county and across the wider south east. We have the likes of Haleon in Dungarvan, Pinewood Healthcare and JB Pharmatron. Many companies and firms are directly involved in pharma and many more work in the wider orbit. What is the Government's plan for the pharma sector? Waterford has been left behind when it comes to job creation, investment in infrastructure and efforts to diversify the economy. There is a very strong feeling that Waterford has been left behind in the wider south east and that is borne out by the facts. What is the plan? What can the Taoiseach say to reassure families and workers? What is the strategy?

The Taoiseach

I will have to counter and say there has been significant investment in Waterford in recent times, particularly the €170 million north quays project. As the Deputy said, Waterford has been a good and attractive location for foreign direct investment companies, especially American multinationals in the pharmaceutical sector. The objective is to protect as many jobs as we possibly can and to work both with the European Union and bilaterally with the US, and also with multinational companies, to get the best strategy to protect those companies to keep them in Ireland and to continue to export to the European and Asian markets. Those companies have done very well in Europe because of their base in Ireland and our strong workforce with high-quality skill sets that are not easily replaceable, certainly not in the short term. We want to do everything possible to protect pharma as best we can.

We are not starting these tariffs. The US has decided to go down this road.

An Ceann Comhairle

As we are over time and as there are two remaining Members, namely Deputies Gogarty and Cummins, I intend to take both now, with the Taoiseach to respond to both simultaneously.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

A worrying increase in incidents involving the spiking of drinks has been reported. I met a constituent this week whose daughter's drink was drugged, but luckily she had people close by. This sinister offence and others like it are currently covered under legislation on poisoning or drugging - namely, the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, the Misuse of Drugs Act and the Intoxicating Liquor Act. We need more specific laws and real consequences to deal with this problem. In fairness, I note that the previous Government was working on an amendment to the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act, the so-called spiking Bill 2023. This welcome legislation lapsed following the recent election and needs to be reintroduced at the justice committee. Is there a priority and timescale the Taoiseach can give for this law to be passed this year?

Deputy Jen Cummins

During the Taoiseach's maiden speech in June 2020 following the election, he mentioned the school completion programme. I do not know whether he knows that school completion co-ordinators and project workers throughout the country were delighted that it was mentioned in his maiden speech. As he probably knows, I worked for a school completion programme, Ballymun Anseo, as Deputy Paul McAuliffe knows because I had his head melted about the school completion programme. I am now here, so I will melt his head again. When will the Department of Education finalise the governance and employment structure for the school completion programme? It is very difficult to work as a co-ordinator or project worker when you are uncertain what the future will be. We work with the most vulnerable children in the country aside from children with special educational needs. This is very important for vulnerable workers, especially those working in Tusla. Educational welfare officers and home school liaisons have steady employment, but school completion co-ordinators do not. We need to know when an answer will be provided in respect of this matter. I appreciate the Taoiseach's championing of the school completion programme for the past number of decades.

The Taoiseach

I thank both Deputies for raising very important issues. I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, with a view to trying to get the legislation to which Deputy Gogarty referred restored to the Order Paper. It has not come forward from the Department yet. The behaviour in question is very sinister and reprehensible. I do not understand why people do this sort of thing. We can understand it, but I do not understand it, if the Deputy knows what I am getting at. It is horrible. Anything we can do to create legal deterrents and the potential to punish people is important.

On school completion, I will talk to the Minister in respect of the commitment in the programme for Government. The previous Government nearly got there but when Departments are transferring functions, they have a habit of frustrating the best-laid plans. School completion in its entirety should be under the Department of Education. It should be part of the ethos of education to enable every child not just to participate in school but to complete it. That then informs policy in education and curricular matters. If it is divorced from education, focus can sometimes be lost in respect of curriculum design and how the school year is organised and so on. I thank the Deputy for her commitment to school completion throughout her career so far. Hopefully, we can move this on together.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1.23 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.24 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 1.23 p.m. and resumed at 2.24 p.m.