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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 29 Apr 2025

Vol. 1066 No. 2

Children's Health Ireland: Statements

We are here today because the HIQA review has laid bare significant failures at Children’s Health Ireland, failures that I believe have put children at risk of harm. Children who deserved the very highest standards of care were failed in process, duty and responsibility. We must confront that failure openly, honestly and with a determination to make sure it does not happen again and to regain trust. Every year, hundreds of thousands of children, accompanied by their parents, guardians and other loved ones, walk through the doors of CHI hospitals. They come seeking and needing care and support. CHI aims to provide high quality paediatric care that is appropriate to the needs of these children so they have the best chance of reaching their highest potential throughout the rest of their lives. Across many disciplines and areas, that does happen.

Since 2020, the Children’s Health Ireland operational budget has increased by 52% to €586 million in 2024. CHI has also grown its permanent staffing cohort from 3,545 whole-time equivalents in 2019 to 4,464, a 26% increase. This additional funding supported the development of new services, including six new neonatal high dependency beds in preparation for an enhanced NICU service in the new children’s hospital and the opening of a fifth theatre in Temple Street. It also funds the current activity being provided by CHI.

The scale of activity in CHI is significant, with over 80,000 emergency visits each year, 50,000 urgent care centre visits, 50,000 inpatient or day cases and 140,000 outpatient appointments. However, behind every number or statistic is a child, with all of his or her care needs. It is our responsibility to provide that care and ensure it wraps around that child, integrating clinical excellence with emotional support, developmental understanding and a sense of real partnership with families. While we continue to provide services and drive reform, we need to address the failures of the HIQA review head-on, identify issues, rebuild trust and ensure that reform remains centred around putting the child and their family at the very heart of our paediatric services.

The HIQA report published three weeks ago was a stark reminder of what happens when safeguards fail. The report found that springs implanted in a small number of children during spinal surgery between 2020 and 2022 were not CE-marked. HIQA found that the controls in place within CHI for the management of the end-to-end processes did not provide adequate safeguards at each stage of the process. The report clearly shows that the use of non-CE-marked springs as surgical implants was clearly wrong.

Those children were not protected from the risk of harm, as they should have been. What happened to the children involved was wrong. It should not have happened and should not have been allowed to happen. I offer my deepest regret for the distress and anxiety caused to the families, and both the HSE and CHI have apologised to the children and families affected by these issues.

The chairperson of the board has stepped down from his role as chair. I have asked my officials to work with the board to ensure a new chairperson is appointed over the coming weeks. What we need now, for a number of different reasons, is stability to ensure CHI implements the recommendations from the HIQA review and also brings us to the opening of the new hospital. We need the underlying governance structures to ensure those things happen. We owe it to those children who were the subject of the HIQA review, and to every child in our care, to make sure that safety systems are not only strengthened but embedded even more deeply across every part of the organisation.

I assure everyone here and outside of this House that I am totally committed to dealing with these issues. When I met the board of CHI two weeks ago and again this week, after the publication of the report, as Deputies can imagine, I made it very clear to them my deep disquiet, dissatisfaction and unhappiness at what happened. Such gaps in governance and management are not acceptable and that is why the recommendations of the report must be fully implemented as quickly as possible. I expressed my clear expectations in terms of reform to ensure it does not happen again.

Both the HSE and CHI have accepted the recommendations in full and I have insisted on the full and rapid implementation of all 19 HIQA recommendations. The HSE’s CEO and his team are meeting regularly with the CHI’s CEO to ensure these recommendations are being implemented without delay. I received an update on the implementation of these recommendations on Friday, which I then discussed with the board yesterday. CHI advised that a quality improvement plan is in place to address the recommendations. This plan outlines 32 actions to address the HIQA recommendations. Eighteen of these actions are complete, which is 56%, and a further 12 are partially complete or in progress, including the development and implementation of a medical device management system. Overall, more than 90% of the actions are complete or in progress. CHI has advised that updates on the quality improvement plan will be published quarterly on the CHI website to ensure openness and transparency. Of course, as Minister, I will also be getting updates and I know CHI will continue to work with the HSE’s CEO to progress that.

I am extremely conscious that the Nayagam report is still under way. I understand that this has progressed and is now subject to the time required for due process and fair procedures, but I know everyone in this House expects it to be completed shortly.

Separately, as Deputies are aware, a clinical audit of surgery for children with developmental dysplasia of the hip is being conducted by an international expert paediatric surgeon. That audit, which is assessing surgical practice across CHI and the National Orthopaedic Hospital in Cappagh, is nearing completion. Both CHI and Cappagh are committed to sharing the findings of the audit once complete. CHI and Cappagh have issued letters to the families who may have concerns to provide information and reassurance as the final report is awaited. Currently, patient safety precautions are in place for any planned developmental dysplasia of the hip surgery through an enhanced multidisciplinary team pre-operative decision-making process across CHI and Cappagh. That team commenced work in the first week of March 2025.

The learnings from these reviews are informing the development and improvement of services and, I hope, the building of confidence and trust. However, I know from my own instinct, and from discussions with Members of the House and with advocacy groups, that much more work needs to be done. I have, of course, listened to the advocacy groups and the Deputies who have raised different cases with me.

I thank them for doing so and for continuing to engage with me on a private basis to raise cases because it is so helpful. I greatly appreciate Deputies working with me in that way. I have listened to the historical experiences of advocacy groups and the members they more broadly represent, as well as to TDs. I met the chair of the paediatric spinal task force some months ago and attended its next meeting, which happened to coincide with the publication of the CHI report. At that meeting, I had the opportunity to speak to groups of advocates for people with spina bifida and scoliosis. I heard directly from them and was struck by the impact that the publication of the HIQA report had on their personal experiences over time, their trust in the system, and the hurt they had experienced over many years.

Yesterday and today, I again had the opportunity to meet in a deeper way with advocacy groups, in person and not online, like the task force, representing children, young people and families affected by spinal conditions such as scoliosis and spina bifida. I thank them sincerely for their time, their presence, their honesty and, above all, their unwavering dedication to improving services for those who need them most. During our meetings, I listened closely to what they said. They spoke clearly and powerfully, as Deputies will already know, about the impact that long waiting times, delays in treatment and, crucially, gaps in communication could have. These issues affect not only the physical health of their children but their emotional well-being, their development and the everyday lives of entire families. Their message was clear: more needs to be done and it needs to happen urgently.

I will state publicly what I said to them, which is that I am resolute in my commitment to addressing the issues raised. Every child deserves timely, safe and effective care. The stories they shared with me only strengthen my determination to drive further improvements in access, capacity and patient communication within our spinal services. We have seen progress in recent years, but I recognise that it is not enough progress. Nevertheless, progress has happened. I also recognise the experience of many children who have had surgeries in the past number of years. In that context, I am conscious that this is not about numbers. It is about children. It is about ensuring that no child or young person is left waiting. It is about making sure that every part of our health system, including spinal surgeries, meets their needs, respects their dignity and supports families at every step of the way. The voices of the families and advocates who spoke to me have left a big impact. I am determined to ensure that this service improves further.

One thing that was made very clear to me, which I will make abundantly clear to CHI and everybody working in paediatric services more broadly, is the importance of communication. The importance of clear, compassionate, proactive communication with families and patients cannot be overstated, including timely communication about changes, which can naturally happen for different reasons. The way in which these messages are delivered is important to families who are out of control in other aspects of caring for their lives. For example, I recognise the impact and cost of attending an outpatient appointment, including coming from a different part of Ireland and not Dublin, having to perhaps take a day off work to arrange childcare for other children, the cost of petrol, etc. There is also the emotional cost of planning for a particular outpatient appointment that does not happen, for some reason, and being told that at short notice. That is simply not forgivable. It must not happen. I have made it abundantly clear that communication must continue to improve.

There have been some improvements. For example, CHI has launched a scoliosis information hub for children and young people and there is a more focused communications plan. However, I will make one point clear in respect of communication. We have invested in theatres and surgeons, which can take time and can be difficult, but there is nothing difficult about picking up the phone correctly in a proactive way that supports families and does not add to distress. A new spinal patient advocate liaison co-ordinator has been appointed with a dedicated role to strengthen that communication. I have asked advocacy groups, and I ask them again, to continue to feed back on how that is going and on how we might further improve communication in those instances where it has not been good enough.

People have acknowledged that there have been some improvements in spinal services. In particular, I acknowledge the experience of people who have had surgeries. That has to be recognised. However, it is simply the case that we need to continue improving access to spinal surgery. That has been the focus of sustained and determined efforts over several years and we have seen tangible progress but, at the same time, too many children still wait too long, which is not acceptable. That commitment to improving access must remain firm. All children in Ireland deserve access to the care they need when they need it.

Scoliosis affects approximately 1% of children and adolescents in Ireland. While many of those children do not require surgery as such, for those who do, timely access to treatment is critical. The waiting lists are too long for children who need surgical intervention. It differs depending on the nature and level of complexity of the surgery but, nevertheless, they are too long. I am aware of the burden that places on young patients and the human impact behind that time.

On increasing capacity, at an operational level, the establishment of the paediatric spinal surgery management unit within CHI last year marked an organisational step forward. That dedicated team is responsible for co-ordinating spinal surgery services across CHI at Temple Street, Crumlin and the hospital at Cappagh. It works closely with multidisciplinary teams to ensure the efficient scheduling of procedures and appropriate prioritisation of patients based on clinical need. That is the intent.

Efforts to expand capacity within CHI are also progressing. The implementation of ring-fenced theatres and dedicated orthopaedic beds has helped ensure that children requiring spinal surgery are seen more quickly. I note the impact of additional outpatient clinics, which are being run to assess new patients more promptly. Since April 2024, more than 600 new patients have been seen in those clinics, thereby reducing the time children wait to be seen by a consultant. A dedicated referral pathway for GPs has been introduced for urgent cases. Alongside that, national and international outsourcing arrangements have been expanded. For non-complex spinal procedures, pathways to Blackrock and Cappagh hospitals are being used to free up capacity in CHI for more complex cases, which is important. More than 20 children have used those pathways since the beginning of this year.

The National Treatment Purchase Fund continues to support diagnostics and a wide range of procedures that enhance capacity for spinal surgery. Internationally, partnerships with Morgan Stanley Children’s Hospital in New York and Great Ormond Street Hospital in London have provided care for 16 patients since April last year, with more scheduled to travel this year. I met the team from New York when they were here in the past number of weeks to meet patients, get a sense from them of how much more could be done, how that was working and how we might improve it further. Regarding the families for whom it is clinically suitable and who choose that option, if it is offered and accepted - it is not suitable for every child to engage in international travel depending on the different pressures he or she faces - we try to fully support those children in accessing the pathways. There is also the matter of the transition from paediatric to adult services. CHI is now collaborating with the Mater hospital on the development of a transitional adolescent spinal service. Joint outpatient clinics have begun supporting patients as they shift to adult care pathways with more continuity.

On investment, the House is aware that in 2024, 52 new full-time equivalent posts were approved to strengthen paediatric spinal services, including surgeons, anaesthesiologists, nursing staff, allied health professionals and administrative support. Twenty-two of those staff are already in post and recruitment is ongoing for the rest. I wish to see that recruitment progressing as quickly as it may. I am aware that in order for a recruitment process to be successful, applicants are needed and the process needs to progress. I am watching that closely. Those who have been put in post include four additional orthopaedic consultants. In addition, €11.6 million has been allocated to international outsourcing initiatives.

This investment builds on funding previously committed under the waiting list action plans. As Deputies will be aware, a multi-annual approach is taken through the national waiting list action plans, which combine immediate capacity-building with longer term structural change. The 2025 plan, published in February with a budget of €420 million, again prioritises as best it can scoliosis and spina bifida services. Under these plans, additional posts have been funded and new infrastructure has been completed, including a fifth theatre in Temple Street, an additional MRI scanner and 24 beds.

This investment and these initiatives have delivered some tangible results, although I recognise this was against a backdrop of very considerable need. I make these points to recognise those people who have had surgeries and whose experiences have improved. In 2024, for example, 513 paediatric spinal procedures were completed. This was a 10% increase compared with 2023 and a 35% increase compared with 2019. However, I recognise that this number needs to be higher this year. In addition, in 2024, the total number of children actively waiting for spinal procedures reduced from 127 to 108, a decrease of 15%.

I say this to recognise the work that has been done, to recognise some improvement in it and, very seriously, to recognise the considerably expanded work that needs to be done to meet the need that is there. What matters more than the number of children waiting is the time they are waiting and I make this point repeatedly. What we want to achieve, of course, is the Sláintecare targets of no more than ten weeks for an outpatient appointment and no more than 12 weeks for further intervention in an appropriate way. Those should be our collective targets because that is what we have in Sláintecare but I realise that we have a figure of four months, which has been a metric for some time, that we have used. In 2024, the number of patients waiting more than four months dropped by 37%. Those waiting more than 12 months dropped by 59%. As of March 2025, 68 children had been waiting more than four months on the active waiting list. This is a 22% reduction compared to the same period in 2024 but let us not let any of those numbers mask the ongoing reality that too many children are still waiting. The expected impact on the waiting times through increased activity has been offset in some ways by a significant increase in demand and referrals compared to previous years. The additional outpatient clinics seeing new patients are resulting in an appropriate increase in referrals and up until the end of March this year, 110 children have been added to the active surgical waiting list, which is an increase of 43% on the same period last year. That reflects a growing need and a growing population, but also the outcomes of a faster outpatient access and more targeted referral pathway. My focus will always be on the time, not the number, because as population increases and as correct referrals increase, that number should increase.

I acknowledge that there is an increased complexity of cases presenting at CHI. That is because in many ways the less complex or more straightforward cases are being referred to other hospitals to free up capacity in CHI. CHI is managing children who require much more complex, and also multistage, surgical interventions. For example, those children may undergo several procedures that may not result in a reduction in waiting list numbers. That is not important, the point being that some of those more complex cases are now being centred in CHI. They may result in multiple surgeries and 513 surgeries do not necessarily correspond to 513 children's cases; it is more complex than that.

That is why I have made it clear to those responsible that we all, including me, as Minister for Health, but, specifically, the CHI board, the CHI CEO and, indeed, the orthopaedic teams more broadly, need renewed urgency on this. I have made that point repeatedly through my meetings in the past number of weeks since my appointment. While the ongoing development is important, it is part of a broader journey that will lead to a different model of delivery at the new children’s hospital.

As the House will be aware, the new children’s hospital is one of the most significant investments in the health and well-being of our children. I recognise, today, for example, that Sinn Féin has introduced a Bill that recognises the naming of the hospital at some time. I am very much looking forward to that day when we get to celebrate that together but, meanwhile, we have a significant body of work to do to make sure that happens.

While the new hospital stands as the most significant health infrastructure development since the foundation of the State, it is also setting a vision for how we want services to be delivered in the most efficient way. This state-of-the-art hospital is central to that reform of children's health services. It is aligned with the ambitions of Sláintecare where everything comes under one roof, including clinicians but also researchers, educators and care teams working side-by-side in a single facility. I hope that the impact of the hospital will extend beyond its physical walls, but why not discuss that when it is open rather than in advance because there is so much work to do to get it open?

Crucially, what is really important in getting the new children's hospital open is that this will be a digital public hospital with an integrated care experience enabled and improved by supported technology. There will be 473 beds in total, as Deputies will be aware, including 380 in-patient beds and 93 day beds. It will expand our capacity to meet clinical demand, including, crucially, the fact that it has 22 theatres and procedure rooms, which is a 47% increase over current provision, ensuring, I hope, faster access to surgery, more efficient surgery co-ordination and reducing wait times for life-changing interventions.

Appropriately, the hospital will also deliver a major expansion in critical care, with 60 critical care beds, 20 paediatric, 18 neonatal and 22 cardiac care, which is an 88% increase on existing capacity. That is absolutely crucial. Of course, there are 20 dedicated child and adolescent mental health services beds, which is an important part of children's broader health.

As Deputies will be aware, one of the hallmarks of this new hospital is the enhanced comfort and dignity that I am absolutely certain it will offer for families. Every inpatient will be cared for in a private room, with an en suite and space for a parent or guardian to stay in more comfort. Critical care and CAMHS units will also offer en suite rooms, with nearby accommodation to support families during some very difficult times.

The digital piece is at the centre of the hospital's design. Every child will have a digital health record, and that shared record enables better co-ordinated access between radiology, cardiology and respiratory services. This is absolutely central to how we move forward. Every child will have a digital health record. Families will have secure access through a dedicated app that allows them to view records, manage appointments and receive more timely updates. It will be lreland’s largest electronic record deployment to date.

As we focus on this renewed infrastructure, it is important to remember what the hospital represents. It is not merely a building; it is intended to be a transformative development in how we deliver care. We are already seeing this new model of care come to life through the two satellite centres in Tallaght and Connolly hospitals, which are open and successfully delivering ambulatory care to children across the greater Dublin area. Those centres, there is no question, are easing pressure on emergency departments and proving the value of ambulatory care.

Delivering the hospital remains a top priority for the Government. In October 2024, BAM Ireland and its parent company, Royal BAM, committed to the goal of a substantial completion date of mid-year 2025.

I personally sought confirmation that the key areas to enable early access for CHI would be completed to the necessary standards and when they would be made ready by BAM. I sought reassurance that all necessary resources were being deployed by the contractor to support our shared ambition to get that hospital open as soon as possible.

Once substantial completion is achieved, the hospital will be handed to CHI for operational commissioning. This is a complex and critical phase that will involve the installation of more than 36,000 pieces of clinical equipment, integration with the electronic health record and the different training in the hospital of more than 4,000 staff from three existing hospitals. There are 4,600 clinical spaces to prepare and it is a task of some scale. CHI is in the pre-commissioning phase and progressing. Yesterday, I met again with the CHI board to discuss the transition to the new hospital and its plan for the commissioning and the issues and how they might be sequenced all of the time to deliver the most timely safe opening of this hospital.

I acknowledge the work that has been done to date but our focus together, without any question, is simply the delivery of this hospital and supporting the staff and the people who work within the health services in moving into that hospital, making sure that the digital records work well, and making sure that it is opened in a timely and safe way. I reiterate to this House, and to the children and families listening, my commitment to improving services, in spinal surgeries, in particular, for children and young people by reducing waiting times and ensuring that children receive safe and high-quality care.

The Minister is sharing time.

I only need five minutes. The Minister should work away.

Forgive me.

My focus is on the opening of the hospital, the detail of the work of improving capacity in spinal surgeries, making sure that the posts we have funded are recruited, making sure that communications are substantially improved that people are not let down in that way, and making sure that people can have confidence.

Of course, I will come to the House at the earliest opportunity that I have received the different reports that we are yet outstanding. I cannot speak about them before them because I have not received them and I cannot speculate about what they may contain.

We all share the vision of opening this hospital. We will all be there together in opening the hospital. There is a very serious body of work to be done to make sure that happens and at the same time we need to make sure that we are increasing capacity in spinal services, that the increased capacity that has been given by the Government is being used and realised by CHI and by the surgeons to transform and improve the lives of children with scoliosis and spina bifida in particular.

I thank the Minister for highlighting the importance of driving reform and improvements in healthcare services for children and young people.

We all agree reform is necessary but reform for its own sake is not the goal. What matters is how these changes are experienced by the people who rely on our services every day. I am speaking about children, young people and their families. We owe it to these families, and to the healthcare workers doing their utmost to provide these services, to push for a greater integration in care which is child-centred, compassionate and progressive. I want to offer my thoughts on how we get to this. This means listening to those with lived experience and putting their child and the family at the centre of the decisions we make. One way in which this is done is through the youth advisory council. This is a group of young people who share their experience as users of the hospital services to inform policy, practices, research and the development of services, both within CHI and on a national basis. This council gives young people a voice and allows them to actively contribute to the quality of paediatric care in Ireland. This quality of care is not driven in isolation; it is driven by integration. When services work together seamlessly across disciplines and settings, children receive more timely, co-ordinated and effective care that truly meets their needs and improves health outcomes. Integration across services ensures that patients are supported, not only in moments of crisis, but through their entire healthcare journey.

I recognise that health is created and lived by people within the settings of their everyday life, where they live, learn, work and play. Improving the health and well-being of the whole population is a key goal for this Government. Healthy Ireland is a Government priority and aims to create an Ireland where everyone can enjoy physical and mental health and well-being to their full potential, and where well-being is valued and supported at every level of our society and is everyone's responsibility to access some of the significant challenges regarding the lifestyle issues, including overweight and obesity and physical inactivity. We endeavour to develop strong national policies and facilitate multi-interventions in some of the key settings.

The obesity policy and action plan is a major milestone in the implementation of Healthy Ireland. Recent data from the Childhood Obesity Surveillance Initiative shows that nearly one in five primary school-aged children in Ireland is overweight or obese. This increases to one in four in DEIS schools. This is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. It is clear that, as a country, we are facing a significant challenge to tackle obesity through the course of life. We need to turn the tide on the overweight and obesity epidemic. Unfortunately, that is what we are facing at the moment. It is something that we, as a Government, are totally committed to tackling. Under this plan, we liaise closely with the CHI child and adolescent complex obesity service. The CHI service has been led by a health and social care professional since 2016. It is delivered by a multidisciplinary team, including health professionals from general paediatrics, nursing, dietetics, physiotherapy, clinical psychology, occupational therapy, medical social work and administration. CHI provides families with guidance on health, nutrition, self-esteem, family communication, physical fitness and activity through education, goal setting and support in a safe environment. This guidance is provided with a focus on promoting a sensitive, respectful and empowering atmosphere, which is important for us. The CHI service aims to halt or slow the progression of childhood obesity, improve health complications and increase knowledge and understanding related to health literacy for families and children. The goal is to help families create a health-promoting home environment, reduce further weight gain and address associated health problems such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol or painful joints. This service compounds with treatment. It is about prevention. Having worked with the different Departments and the Minister, I can say that this is all about prevention.

I am committed to preventing obesity and changing the unhealthy food environment but also to improving and increasing services for children and young people living with obesity to reduce the impact of this disease. In this way, we can support healthy generations of children who can enjoy their lives to the fullest and reach their full potential as they develop into adults, which is critical to the country's future.

There are many exceptional individuals working tirelessly in CHI to deliver the best care that they can for our children. I have met many of them; I meet them all the time. I applaud and salute them because I know that they are as frustrated as Sinn Féin and I are with the failings of CHI as an organisation. Unfortunately, there are very serious problems at CHI, which make it impossible for Sinn Féin to have confidence in that organisation's ability to take charge of the new children's hospital.

The story of CHI has been a sorry saga of dysfunction and crisis. Children’s Health Ireland was formally established in 2018 by then Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, under the Children’s Health Act. It was established to improve and integrate governance of several children’s hospitals in Dublin and to provide a single and modernised national structure for the delivery of hospital-based specialist children’s care. It took control of these hospitals in 2019. In 2017, as we know, the then Minister gave his infamous broken promise that no child would be waiting longer than four months for a scoliosis procedure by the end of that year. CHI is the organisation responsible for delivering that, and it failed, as did the Government. Resources were committed and treatment abroad was started but then it stopped with no explanation and the waiting lists continued to grow. Then we had the former health Minister, Stephen Donnelly. More investment was announced, treatment abroad started again and we were told late last year that there would be no more than 20 children waiting longer than four months for a date for their procedure by the end of last year. As we speak today, there are still more than 50 children waiting longer than four months and a total of 137 children are waiting for a date for their surgery. In fact, 18 of them are waiting more than a year just for a date.

The Minister mentioned capacity. There are fewer spinal consultants and surgeons working in CHI today than there were in 2022. That is a very serious problem. In 2023, very serious concerns came to light about the quality of orthopaedic care at Children’s Health Ireland. These concerns were first brought forward by parents and advocate groups. They felt that they were not listened to, that they were silenced, that they were ignored and they feel very badly let down. They raised concerns regarding a high level of infections and returns to surgery, which raised alarm bells, and very serious questions were being asked of the quality of theatre infrastructure and care delivered at Temple Street hospital in particular. In the middle of this, it transpired that non-medical grade springs had been inserted into three children, which then began to disintegrate. This led to several major investigations, namely, the Boston review, the now-live Nayagam review, the HIQA review and a financial audit. We have yet to receive Dr. Nayagam’s report on clinical practice.

Seven years on from the establishment of CHI, however, we have received a scathing report from HIQA, which has laid bare the extreme and severe institutional and governance failures that allowed children under CHI’s care to be harmed. HIQA examined the end-to-end process by which non-medical grade springs were ordered and, in the end, placed into three vulnerable children, from whom they have since been removed. The report by HIQA can be summed up by a single sentence: “Children were not protected from the risk of harm.” That is a staggering finding, and HIQA’s report leaves no doubt that there were individual wrongdoings, but they should have been stopped by CHI. However, CHI was so poorly run that it did not have control or oversight of what was happening in its hospitals. The report found that non-medical grade springs were ordered and procured through Children’s Health Ireland, prepared by Children’s Health Ireland and placed into children under the care of Children’s Health Ireland. At no point in the process did anyone say, "Stop". In fact, HIQA’s investigation found that not only did CHI fail to pick up on and stop the use of non-medical grade springs, but that CHI had totally failed to properly implement the regulations that should have stopped this from happening. The report states: "HIQA found that a comprehensive suite of procedures for the introduction and management of all aspects of the Medical Device Regulations (MDR), or the previous regulatory framework which applied from 1994 to 2021, was not in place across CHI."

Strikingly, HIQA concluded that at CHI Temple Street there was "no committee in place to approve and oversee the introduction of class III medical devices, including implantable medical devices". That is simply astonishing. Not only was CHI not following the rules, CHI was implementing rules that go back 30 years. The vital safeguard, which is a committee to approve and oversee the use of implantable medical devices, which would have and should have protected these children, simply did not exist at CHI.

The dysfunction in CHI unfortunately did not stop there. The HIQA report paints a picture of a chaotic organisation that has failed at its fundamental task of improving and modernising governance of children's healthcare. In reviewing the new governance structures implemented at CHI in recent years, HIQA found that "these arrangements were complex and did not lend themselves to clear and accountable governance and may have affected the ability for those responsible for the service to effectively oversee the delivery of care". The report went on to state: "These arrangements did not lend themselves to clear lines of reporting and oversight of operations on a day-to-day basis at each of the hospital sites for the delivery of high-quality, safe care." HIQA's report is a study in how not to run a hospital. HIQA found that each hospital site operated with a separate procurement process. While there were local decontamination structures and processes in place the structures and processes for decontamination were not standardised across both sites. At the time of the review there was no standardised processes in place across CHI relating to governance for the introduction and use of medical devices in practice, there were no controls in place to carry out any type of safety and technical checks on the springs and there was "an absence of structures and processes to support clear and adequate communication between Surgeon A and the Decontamination Manager around the details on the sterilisation process for the springs". There was failure after failure. These concerns alone show why many families and advocates have been raising concerns themselves about CHI for years, why trust in CHI has been shattered, and why many of us - those parents and advocacy groups across the State and those of us in opposition - will have a view that the board of CHI should be stood down and a new team should be put in place.

If these scandals were not enough, it seems that the biggest scandal in children's healthcare in a long time has come to light. Potentially hundreds or even thousands of children have been given unnecessary hip surgeries at CHI going back over a decade. This scandal came to the Government's attention a year ago but the then Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, who was informed in May, did not take the appropriate action. Concerns were hidden from parents until the news broke. That was the wrong way to treat parents and children. Parents only found out after The Ditch published the draft audit report back in March. Then a flurry of letters was sent out to parents, which has only raised more concerns and heightened the fear. The letters said there was nothing to worry about and that follow-up appointments would be scheduled. The follow-up appointments, however, are not happening. Parents have contacted me about surgeries that took place as far back as 2010. I received one message from a parent today where a child had a surgery back in 2010. We are told the audit covers a time period from 2021 to 2023, yet letters are being sent to parents of children concerning procedures going back as far as 2010 and possibly further. This parent said that the child had received no follow-up care over the years and she does not know what happened to her child.

There are other instances where people got second opinions. We have had many examples of that. They went privately, got a second opinion and were told not only did the child not need any surgery but the child did not have the condition at all. We have a lot of those. This paints a very dark picture and a really big problem.

Parents feel in the dark. They are worried about their children. They are worried about unnecessary and traumatic surgeries. This creates uncertainty, worry and fear. We all depend on good governance and good management. For those of us who use the health service, we have to put our faith in clinicians, we have to put our faith in doctors, and we have to put our faith in a government that will make sure systems are fit for purpose so that children in particular get the very best health care. When trust breaks down in a hospital, it is a real problem and a real challenge because parents do not know what to do. They do not know if they can accept the opinion they are getting. Parents tell me all the time that they need a second opinion because they simply cannot rely on the information they have received because of all the scandals in the hospital. This is a real difficulty.

I will just make one final appeal to the Minister. The HIQA report looked at the use of non-medical grade springs. It pointed out some very serious management and governance failures in CHI. These issues need to be grappled with and dealt with. There has to be accountability for individual wrongdoing and for institutional wrongdoing but there also has to be political accountability. I want the new hospital built as quickly as possible but we must make sure we get it right. We have to do much better by the children of the State.

We need to be frank. Public confidence in the board at Children's Health Ireland is shattered and is in pieces. It is beyond repair. These unnecessary hip surgeries are a national scandal, a scandal of which we still do not know the depth. Thousands of hip surgeries have taken place over the past decade. There are possibly hundreds of cases of children who underwent highly traumatic surgeries that were unnecessary. Thousands of children and parents are left in the dark wondering whether their surgery was necessary. This scandal could date back over a decade under the watch of various Ministers for Health. It is especially damning that concerns were hidden from parents. Parents were only made aware of the audit into the hip surgeries because of the investigation work of The Ditch. Had The Ditch not reported on this audit, how much longer would the Minister and the board of CHI left families in the dark?

This raises deeply concerning questions on culture and governance within the board and the executive of CHI. We need to begin the process of rebuilding public trust and credibility in CHI. It is clear that a reset is urgently needed. Sinn Féin does not have the confidence in the board or the executive of CHI. Clearly, the board should stand down or should be stood down. With a new board in place, it should go to work putting together a new executive management and clinical leadership team that would lead an overhaul of major culture and governance issues within CHI.

Hundreds of children across the State have been failed in the most serious and distressing of ways by Children's Health Ireland. There must be an extensive investigation and those responsible for failures must be held to account, simple as. We must uncover the full extent of unnecessary surgeries, examine where profit motives influenced decisions, and identify failures at every level - clinical, administrative and political. Individuals and institutions responsible for harm must face consequences.

Proactive communication must be at the core of CHI going forward. Every parent whose child underwent orthopaedic surgery at CHI needs clarity. They cannot be left in the dark wondering. As we transition to a new children's hospital, the existing culture cannot be allowed to carry over. We must ensure that the strongest levels of governance, care and communication between CHI and families are fundamental going forward in the new national children's hospital.

I will briefly address the issue raised by the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor. I do not for a moment underestimate the scale of the challenge that she might be facing in terms of the obesity epidemic. With the greatest respect, however, I would doubt the relevance of it to this discussion. For any parents watching who perhaps are with their child waiting to go in for surgery this will not inspire a massive amount of confidence. This is not to diminish the issue but perhaps there is a better time and place for that to be discussed.

The Minister said: "I offer my deepest regret for the distress and anxiety caused to the families, and both the HSE and CHI have apologised to the children and families affected by these issues." She did not say that in her contribution but I wonder if she has apologised to them. She spoke of regret on the record here, and I am sure this means an awful lot to them, but the apology is on the record from CHI and the HSE. Did the Minister say sorry herself as the person in the lead here, as the person with whom the buck stops, and as the person from whom they would like to receive that apology?

We are here because of another report into yet another failure by the health service. I represented workers in the health service for many years and I know how hard they work but they are very often battling a level of incompetence and a complete lack of oversight on the part of the leadership. It is very hard for them to do their work. The conditions under which they work are very strenuous and onerous. I acknowledge that but the simple fact is that children were not protected from the risk of harm. CHI procured the non-medical springs and the children were operated on when they were in the care of CHI. The report lays bare the manner in which children and their families were left unsupported and without information. I can only imagine what that must be like for parents. I can only imagine how it would feel to be in Temple Street hospital today with a child who was about to go in for surgery. People need confidence. It is a very big step to let go of your child's hand and to let them go in for surgery. It is a massive leap of faith for any parent. Those parents and children deserve to have confidence, and I do not think they could today. They certainly could not have confidence in the board of CHI. It is time for the board that has presided over much of this to stand down. The Minister needs to call for that.

Many of our most vulnerable children and young people have been failed not only by CHI but also by the Government. Families from right across my constituency of Dublin Fingal East have contacted me in desperation, pleading for decent healthcare services for their children. A young mother in Swords who has turned her life around and gone back to education has a three-year-old child who has severe needs. She has been waiting far too long for the medical interventions needed to assist her child. She cannot afford private services but early support is key. In Malahide, there is a woman who has been in care all her life. When she reached 18, she had to leave foster care. She received no supports and no housing plan. She is now homeless and has mental health difficulties. She feels totally abandoned. Another mother is totally distraught. Her 14-year-old daughter has anorexia. She is one of four children. This mother is frantic with worry but there are no supports available to her. The problems are made worse by the fact that the family is living in appalling housing conditions. Their private rental property has a hole in the roof and there is damp and mould in the house. Another parent is from Kinsealy. Their 13-year-old daughter is crying out for help. She has suicidal tendencies and cannot go to school. Despite this parent's best efforts, they have yet to receive any supports for their daughter. These are just a few examples from my own constituency.

The healthcare needs of our children and young people are simply not being met. A major step forward would be the delivery of the long-awaited public primary care centre for Swords, a town with a population of almost 41,000. I welcomed the recent HSE capital plan for 2025 but I am bitterly disappointed that it fails to deliver the long-awaited primary care centre for Swords, which would take the pressure off Beaumont Hospital and serve the wider area. Fingal has seen one of the highest rates of population growth in the State. This rapid population growth has resulted in a significantly high youth population. The glaring omission from the plan is the badly needed primary care centre. The public needs and deserves this. In 2022, I had it included in the Fingal development plan. There was a lengthy process with the HSE, which stated that a facility in Swords would be built and operational by 2025. Some 13 years after it was originally deemed a priority by the HSE, members of the public are still no closer to walking through the doors. This is highly worrying. It is another example of how publicly funded infrastructure never appears to be completed on time or on budget. I have seen correspondence from the HSE in recent weeks highlighting plans to develop a primary care centre in Donabate through an operational lease model. Like Swords, Donabate is in desperate need of investment in infrastructure. There is genuine concern that this project will become just another broken promise. On behalf of our young people, I appeal to the Minister to ensure that the public primary care centre in Swords is made operational as a priority. This would take much of the stress off other health services.

Earlier, I spoke with one of my constituents from Clondalkin. Gillian Sherratt is the mother of eight-year-old Harvey. Harvey is suffering from life-threatening spina bifida and scoliosis. He was on the waiting list to have an operation on his spine for 33 months. The Minister may remember when Harvey touched the hearts of the nation as a video showed him struggling to breathe as a result of his spinal curve leading to his rib cage twisting around his lungs and heart. His family have been campaigning vigorously for Harvey to have this life-saving operation. Despite being on a waiting list, his parents found out that Harvey was removed from the active waiting list without them being informed. Harvey's parents, Gillian and Stephen, had to campaign to have Harvey put back on the list. We can be thankful that they were successful in that campaign but they were given no explanation or reason for Harvey having been removed in the first place.

Harvey finally received the first of his two operations in November after 33 months on a waiting list. His mother, Gillian, informed me today that the difference since Harvey received his operation has been like night and day. Even during the difficult recovery stage, Harvey's breathing started improving and he has now started eating solid foods for the first time in six years. He is a different child since these operations were performed. However, his parents have said that despite the two operations, the curvature of his spine is only slightly less than when he was first put on the waiting list he was on for 33 months. Gillian also informed me that, if Harvey had got the operation on his spine in the timeframe of four months laid out by Deputy Harris, his spine would now be straight. The curvature of his spine is now at 80° and he is scheduled to have more operations to rectify this.

The major criticism that Harvey's parents and other parents have regarding the delays faced by children is that early intervention is absolutely key and humane. While Gillian and Stephen are grateful that Harvey is on the road to recovery, they cannot help but remember the 33 months for which Harvey had to endure the pain. These 33 months of Harvey's childhood were robbed from him. Harvey's parents want to see lessons learned from this so that no other child will be left waiting in pain.

Deputy Cullinane and my other colleagues have dealt with the gamut of failure in respect of scoliosis operations, the lack of such operations, the time children lost and the great impact this had. We have also heard about the significant capacity issues there have been and the non-medical grade springs that ended up in three children and the untold impact that had. However, I will deal specifically with those children who may have gone through operations they did not require for hip dysplasia. Thanks to Deputy Cullinane, this issue has been raised with the Minister. Deputy Doherty also brought it up on Leaders' Questions.

I refer to a family in north Louth who just want put on record what could have happened to their daughter, who was with Temple Street from when she was 14 months until she was three years and three months, that is, from 2016 to 2019. A doctor initially did not like creases in the legs and referred her on, which was the right thing to do and part of due diligence. I have here a frightening diagnosis this child got. It says she was three years and three months old and had bilateral acetabular dysplasia, which was more marked on the right than on the left. It is stated that there had not been much improvement over the last few months and that it was recommended to proceed with Salter osteotomies bilaterally. You can imagine what that involves. It requires sawing into her hip bone and reshaping the socket to hold the ball of her joint more securely.

Luckily enough, the father did what I might not have done in the circumstances. I might have just taken on board what the doctor said, but he got a second opinion. This stated that:

On examination, she is a bright, active, young lady who walks well. She has no leg length discrepancy. She has full abduction at the hips. She has no instability. Internal rotation to 80°, external rotation to 60°. She doesn’t hyperextend the knees. She has a nice shape to her foot and ankle.

In her upper limbs, she has no hyperextension at the elbow …

I have had the opportunity to review her series of x-rays, most recently taken in December 2018 going back to when she was 14-months old.

Initial x-rays I would consider to be normal, the ossific nucleus are both present

As people can guess, the person who gave the second opinion ultimately said there was no need for an operation. That father is obviously very glad that information is with the Minister.

We need to look at a greater level of audit. Obviously, the period between 2021 and 2023 does not look like it will cut it. I reiterate what a number of people said about the huge pain that has been caused by correspondence.

I want to very quickly raise what another one of my constituents brought to me.

You are out of time, Deputy.

I know but the daughter involved has undergone two surgeries. The week before the story broke, the surgery, for which she had been waiting for three years, was cancelled with 24 hours' notice. Dealing with Temple Street is like dealing with a sheet in the wind. Everything is a sort of vague response.

Conclude, please, Deputy.

Meanwhile, the girl's father is left wondering if she even needs the surgery. I will provide the Minister with the information. That is the issue with all of this.

When Deputies name families and individuals, I presume they have the permission of those people to do so.

Absolutely. I 100% had permission. As I said, I spoke to the parent earlier.

I very much welcome that we are having these statements. It is important to say that over the past number of weeks, I have spent a good deal of time talking to staff of CHI - doctors and nurses - and many of the parents of patients. As we all accept, every day brilliant work is done across the three sites in question. I know that as a parent who has had to use Temple Street hospital on a number of occasions in recent months and also as a public representative. However, that brilliant work is being overshadowed by the practices of a few and by the systemic failings we are seeing within CHI. The almost 4,000 staff of CHI obviously do not want to be in the eye of the storm. They want to get on with their work, but we have to make good. We have to resolve the systemic failures that exist. I refer here to the failure by the board to institute proper and basic processes, the failure on the part of the board of management to deal with poor staff culture and the failure on the part of the Government and the HSE to make good on commitments to put in place resources in order that children get the care they need in a timely fashion.

I come from the perspective that I usually want those in leadership positions to own their own failures, but I am not so sure about the current board of CHI. Five of the 11 members of the board have served since 2018, one has served since 2020 and there is just one clinician in that cohort. There have been appointments since the start of the new year. I very much welcome that, but we need to see serious changes on the board this year.

Section 12 of the Children's Health Act makes very clear that:

Persons appointed to the Board shall be persons who have, in the opinion of the Minister, experience or expertise in matters connected to the functions of Children’s Health Ireland or to corporate governance and management generally.

The care of the three children that prompted the HIQA report reflected the reality that both the systems within CHI and the board failed. Obviously, there are now clear questions about the capacity of the board to oversee and implement the very onerous recommendations that were put forward by HIQA and to oversee the transition to the new children's hospital. We know there are 19 recommendations to be implemented. I heard the Minister say that 90% are either complete or in progress. The fundamental question is when will we see the full completion of all those recommendations. When I look at them, I can see that they are exceptionally onerous. They demand organisation-wide review, reform and systemic change. The question is does the Minister believe the current board is capable of ensuring that the implementation of those recommendations will be completed.

There is a second but related issue about whether having a separate board for CHI makes any sense at all when the HSE is now compelled to have a much greater organisational oversight of the activities of the three hospitals that make up CHI. I say all this because the use of unregulated springs is one matter but the potentially even greater scandal coming down the tracks relates to the unnecessary hip operations. If there is anything to come out of this debate, it is that whenever the report into the unnecessary hip operations is published, it needs to clearly show the number of surgeons involved, whether what was being done was systemic or whether it was just about the sins of just one individual and whether it was private activity that drove these surgeries? As previous speakers indicated, people's faith in CHI and in the individual hospitals very much rests on that.

In recent weeks I have spoken to many of the families that are going through the agonising wait for scoliosis correction surgery. I previously spoke in the Dáil about Daniel Collins, a 14-year-old boy who lives in Tralee, County Kerry. Never in a million years did his mother want to go public about this matter but because her child has been on a waiting list for more than 14 months, he is now facing two surgeries. Daniel's mother was forced to go public because the surgeon could not offer a single date. This Friday, we will hopefully have progress and have a date for Daniel's surgery, but there is a critical issue here about how we have one child who is has been waiting for 14 months. We know there are approximately 132 patients waiting for surgery but that only 47 procedures are planned. We also know that another 40 children go on the surgical waiting list each month. My question to the Minister relates to how those care pathways are being dealt with over the short, medium and longer term.

I heard what the Minister said about Great Ormond Street Hospital, the Morgan Stanley Children's Hospital in New York, Cappagh hospital and Blackrock Clinic, and we all get the urgency of the situation for these children. I support what is happening but it does not sit easy with me, particularly because of the cost involved. We understand that €600,000 is the cost of relying on surgical services in Morgan Stanley Children's Hospital in New York. That does not sit easy with me. If a child needs surgery, however, then that is what we need to put in place because of the massive backlog.

In the meantime, what is being done to build capacity here? I am seriously concerned that capacity is not being built fast enough and that there will be an over-reliance on services outside the country or within the private sector here. As the Minister acknowledged, for many families, travelling abroad is not an option. I spoke to one family last week who told me that because of the oxygen system their child currently has, the aviation authority will not allow that child to even board a plane. Of course, travelling is not going to be an option for that family. We have to ensure that while putting short-term fixes in place, we build the necessary capacity.

The second key issue is that we have seen the opening of Saturday clinics for scoliosis sufferers. Again, that is to be welcomed. When I talk to families, particularly those with children with spina bifida, however, they say they are not getting appointments for those clinics. Other children whose curvatures are far less severe may be getting those appointments. We have to be informed as to who precisely is getting appointments at those Saturday clinics and make sure that those with the worst curvatures get the care they need. When I asked one parent a number of weeks ago what is next if we do not get surgery here, she informed me that it would be palliative care. That is the reality. Children have already died. Others could die if they do not get this surgery.

The third key issue for me relates to the care pathways that have been put in place. From talking to certain parents, I understand that such are the cultural and organisational difficulties, particularly in Temple Street but also in Crumlin, that there is an issue about the logistics of when a child undergoes a surgery. The surgery takes place in Crumlin, the specialists travel there from Temple Street and then the child has to be transported back to Temple Street. We have this issue therefore - I would like to get clarity from the Minister as to the extent to which that happens - of very vulnerable patients being ferried by ambulance between Temple Street and Crumlin, all because of an organisational dysfunction relating to consultants.

That has to end and it needs to be cleared up, particularly because if a child has spina bifida or a shunt and if that shunt fails for whatever reason, we are talking about minutes in terms of being able to treat them. The thought of putting them into an ambulance unnecessarily beggars belief.

The Minister said earlier that scoliosis patients account for 1% of all patients across CHI, and there has been a huge amount of attention on scoliosis sufferers, but we have to look to the others. When I look at the wait times for some of the specialties, it is quite distressing to see the length of time some children are waiting, not for appointments but for actual surgery: paed ENT, 313 days; dental surgery, 305 days; developmental paediatrics, 322 days; neurology, 228 days; nephrology, 258 days; dermatology, 300 days; and orthopaedics, 319 days. We need to make sure our eye is not taken off the ball for those other patients in getting the procedures and surgeries they require because they too are very much suffering.

The last thing I want to say relates to the children's hospital.

You are out of time, Deputy Sherlock.

May I just make two quick points, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle? First, with regard to the weight of expectation, the Minister raised earlier the 22 new theatres. They will be brilliant when they are up and running, but it will take years for them to open, from what I hear when I talk to the commissioning team in CHI. I think we have 15 theatres at the moment. There is a very serious question about the resourcing and staffing to make sure that the existing level of services across the three sites will be maintained when they move to the new hospital next Easter.

Thank you, Deputy Sherlock.

The reality is that three years ago the commissioning team in CHI put in a request for 382.8 whole-time equivalent staff and they believe they have got little or no response from the HSE or the Department of Health. In fact, in the words of one, they have never been so far behind in the staffing of a new hospital project. We need to make sure that that staffing is put in place next year because the public expect at the very least that the hospital will maintain existing services and will increase its services over time. We will see a reduction in services next winter to ensure that the transition can happen safely, and there are questions about all that, but the critical thing now is that the proper recruitment and funding for that are put in place in order that the public gets the children's hospital it deserves in 12 months' time.

First of all, I congratulate the victorious Kilkenny minor camogie team on winning the all-Ireland on Sunday, a fantastic achievement. I pay tribute to all the players, the panel, the backroom team, the management, the executive and, in particular, all the parents who go above and beyond in travelling and bringing their children around the country. To get that reward is fantastic, and the whole of Kilkenny is very proud of them, so massive comhghairdeas to all involved.

I welcome the opportunity for statements on Children's Health Ireland. The findings of the recent report are very serious. The Taoiseach has already expressed how horrified and appalled we all are by what has happened to the children involved, but it is extremely hard to comprehend what has happened. The use in children of non-surgical springs which were not clinically approved was wrong and should never have happened. HIQA, as we all know, found that the controls in place within CHI did not provide the necessary or adequate safeguards at every single stage of the process and, as a result, children were not protected from harm. The Government must commit to implement the HIQA report. Children's Health Ireland has advised that a quality improvement plan is in place to address the recommendations made in the report. As of the end of March, however, there were 137 children on CHI's active waiting list, 67 of whom were waiting over four months. That is way too many and it is something that needs to be addressed immediately.

As we all know, improving children's health involves a combination of good practices, education and community support. Healthy eating is really important. I welcome the roll-out of the school meals programme and the schools that have been added, many in my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny. I particularly look forward to seeing the improving nutritional composition of meals going forward. That is to be welcomed right across the country.

We all know that regular physical activity is so important and we need to promote at least 60 minutes of physical activity daily. We should encourage our children to engage in fun activities such as playing sports, dancing and biking to develop a love for movement. It is all about participation. There is a specific item in the programme for Government to increase participation among our young people in sport. I spoke recently about the importance of participation in sport. Yes, we need to cater for our elite athletes - I am 100% for that - but we have to encourage participation. We have to participate in sport for enjoyment, not just winning. It is really important. Often, when parents come home and their child has had a match, the first question they ask is, "Did you win?" As a country, we need to change the whole narrative as to how we look at participation in sport. The question should be: "Did you enjoy it?" We have to do that as a country and we need to lead from the front on that.

We need to ensure that our children get sufficient sleep according to their age group. There are huge issues with our younger people and their accessibility to mobile phones and tablets. That age is crucial for their development.

As regards routine health checkups, we need as a Government to ensure regular visits on time and on schedule to all healthcare providers for checkups, vaccinations and screenings. They are essential for monitoring health and preventing illnesses.

This leads me nicely on to mental health support. We need to continue to foster open communication about feelings and emotions. We need to provide additional resources and support for mental health, including counselling, if needed, for our younger people. I will give the House an example. In St. Luke's hospital in Kilkenny, a fantastic hospital, any child who is in there who has type 1 diabetes does not have any access to any sort of counselling or psychiatric help at all. The diagnosis of something like that is absolutely massive and life-changing, yet those services are not there. That is one small example where we could do something very quickly to make a difference to those children and their families.

I mentioned earlier the importance of screen time and limiting it. As a country and a Government, we need to establish guidelines for screen time. Obviously, we need to encourage our children to engage in more interactive, outdoor and creative activities. Some 1.3 billion children in the world have access to a smartphone. That is a huge number, and we need to make sure we are involved in that as we go along.

Most importantly, we need to involve the community. We need to encourage community programmes that focus on children's health such as nutritional workshops and health education initiatives in schools, but in particular sport leagues. I want to talk briefly about the possibility of the changing to calendar soccer in Ireland. I have four daughters. They all play with Highview Athletic in Graiguenamanagh and they absolutely love it. They love playing their camogie as well. The under-12 team had their last match of the year last night. They are a fantastic group of girls. There are 19 on the panel. They were asked, if they had to choose between soccer and camogie, what they would do. Seventeen of the 19 said they would pick camogie ahead of soccer. At the moment, the two coexist beautifully. They are able to play their soccer and their sport in the summer and in the winter and it is fantastic. We need to protect our younger people and give them the opportunity of not putting one against the other. They should be able to coexist. It is really important. I call on each county to decide what is best for the younger people in its area because our younger people should not have to choose one sport over another. There should be participation for all at all levels.

I genuinely believe that CHI is dedicated to providing high-quality healthcare services to children and young people across Ireland. It offers a wide range of specialised services, including paediatric surgery, emergency care and outpatient services, but we need to make sure that our children, our State's children, can get quicker access and that when they do come into care, it is safe. All every parent wants for his or her children is for them to be safe and protected. When you entrust your child into the system, you need to make sure that that child will be looked after with the best medical practices that are there at any moment in time.

I welcome the opportunity to address the profoundly disturbing findings of the HIQA report published on 8 April 2025 into Children's Health Ireland, CHI. The revelation of governance and clinical failures at CHI, particularly at Temple Street hospital, is beyond comprehension and demands our urgent attention.

We have learned that extremely vulnerable children were subjected to unapproved and dangerous surgical practices. It is our duty, on behalf of those children and their families, to ensure accountability for what has happened and to highlight the reforms needed to prevent any such travesty from ever occurring again.

The HIQA investigation lays bare a chain of failures in CHI’s governance, clinical practice and medical device oversight. In a small number of complex surgery cases involving three children between 2020 and 2022 a surgeon implanted metal springs that were not medically approved. These springs were not CE-marked as required by EU safety regulations and were made of a material known to corrode inside the human body. This was, as HIQA unequivocally stated, wrong and should never have happened. Shockingly, no ethical approval was sought from any research ethics committee for this novel, experimental technique, nor was there any sign-off from senior management for using these implants on children. Families were not properly informed that this was an experimental or new procedure and the request for parental consent failed to disclose the true nature of the surgery. This amounted to an unethical trial on children, which is a breach of trust and of medical ethics of the highest order.

HIQA’s review identified systemic failures at every stage of CHI’s processes that allowed this catastrophe to unfold. Controls that should have safeguarded children were glaringly absent or ignored. There were numerous missed opportunities to catch and prevent the use of these springs. The HIQA report damningly concluded "children were not protected from the risk of harm". The report shines a light on deeper governance issues within CHI where there appears to be a deeply dysfunctional culture. HIQA found CHI’s management structures to be overly complex and unclear. The board of CHI was evidently not aware of what was happening on the ground in Temple Street until it was far too late. Furthermore, there were long-standing issues with communication, team dynamics and a lack of a formal multidisciplinary team structure. The environment did not encourage open discussion or questioning and this enabled one surgeon’s ill-considered idea to bypass all institutional safeguards.

Tragically, our healthcare system is not alone in facing such failures. In the UK, Great Ormond Street Hospital was recently found to have allowed an orthopaedic surgeon to carry out "inappropriate and unnecessary" operations that left children in chronic pain. These findings are shockingly parallel. Both cases show a rogue element of clinical practice persisting unchecked and families not being fully informed or heard. In response to its own scandals, the UK strengthened governance frameworks, empowered regulators like the Care Quality Commission and introduced a patient safety commissioner. Ireland must adopt similarly robust reforms.

I fully endorse HIQA’s nine recommendations for CHI and nine for the wider health service. These include overhauling CHI’s governance structures, establishing a clinical innovation approval process, tightening medical device procurement oversight, embedding a culture of safety and ethical practice and ensuring transparency and regular public reporting. The culture of paternalist secrecy in the medical sector also needs to be overturned. Patients and parents must be given access to their information. Frustratingly this is not the first time I have raised this issue in the House and I hope the Minister will work to deal with this culture. At the national level, the HSE must ensure all hospitals have effective oversight of surgical innovations. Consideration should be given to establishing an independent patient safety commissioner as the UK has done. The Minister must also ensure HIQA and the HPRA are properly empowered to intervene earlier.

Let us remember the human cost behind this report and all this scandal. Children who were already facing serious health challenges were put in danger. Parents have had their trust shattered. Irish children deserve the highest standard of care. We must rebuild trust in CHI and across our health service through honesty, accountability and excellence in governance.

Deputy Cleere has gone but there is a time and a place for congratulations.

This is a sensitive, distressing and very damaging space we need to talk about. I am not a begrudger but this is not the most appropriate place to congratulate a camogie team.

I will start with something I have worked with all my life. The oath medics take is "first, do no harm". It has been proved CHI and those involved have done absolutely horrific harm. Harm has been done to our children and to the families trying to cope not just with the illness but also the effects of their children being guinea pigs, for whatever reason those people had to do those operations on the little ones. I am dismayed at the myriad serious, shocking failures that have come to light regarding Children's Health Ireland under Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael's stewardship and the watches of their Ministers for Health since 2011. Unapproved metal springs being implanted in children's spines at Temple Street and elsewhere, the glacial waiting lists for scoliosis surgery and the unnecessary hip surgeries at Temple Street and Cappagh hospital, these are tantamount to unauthorised medical experimentation on children. The Taoiseach is never too happy with the reporting of The Ditch, but it has said, and this rings true, that "Nothing like this has happened in Europe since the Second World War". We should just think about that and what happened then.

These scandals reveal an absolute breakdown in safety protocols, governance and systemic failures in regulation of the hospital system. Again and again children have been utterly failed and this has placed their health and safety at risk. There has been a loss of credibility and of the confidence and trust of the people. Reports suggest nearly 80% of hip operations on children in Cappagh hospital and 60% in Temple Street were unnecessary and based on incorrect diagnoses. Not only is reform required but full accountability. I hope the Minister will demand that.

Proper healthcare for children is crucial as it lays the foundation for their future well-being, development and success. It enables them to grow into healthy and productive adults. Good healthcare supports their physical, mental and emotional development. Proper investment in children’s health also benefits society by reducing future healthcare costs and promoting healthy lifestyles from a young age. Unfortunately, children’s healthcare in Ireland has faced major challenges and those who suffer as a consequence of these challenges are the children themselves.

A stark reminder of how bad children’s healthcare in Ireland is can be seen in a recent HIQA report on governance and oversight of surgical implants at Children’s Health Ireland hospitals. The report revealed shocking levels of failure in the form of poor patient outcomes in spinal and orthopaedic services. It also highlighted a number of safety concerns whereby CHI failed to adequate safeguard children during spinal surgeries where non-CE-marked springs were used. It is hard to believe the report also discovered key approval processes and safety checks were not properly applied. This resulted in the use of non CE-marked springs. Such springs should have undergone rigorous testing and assessment but this did not happen. Despite this they were still used in scoliosis surgeries. Many of these issues are a consequence of inadequate oversight at CHI. This lack of clear accountability resulted in a failure to apply key approval processes, policies and safety checks for the use of these implants. The report further identified other failures, especially in communication, where it was found staff in the operating theatre were unaware a new spring was being used alongside conventional surgical implements and families were not fully informed about the experimental nature of the intended surgery. All of this put children at risk of harm.

The HIQA report put forward 19 recommendations for both corporate and clinical governance as well as proper oversight of implantable medical devices. Fundamentally, the HIQA report reveals systematic failures within CHI's governance structures that would have insured the safe and appropriate use of implantable medical devices.

This is what led to the inappropriate use of non-CE-marked springs, as well as a lack of transparency with both patients and parents.

As a consequence of what happened to our children, the board of CHI should step down and be relieved of its responsibility for the provision of services at CHI-----

-----before more children are put at risk.

I welcome this important debate. As others have said, this is a serious issue. I have concerns about Government backbenchers trivialising it by talking about victories in camogie matches. That is perhaps something for them to reflect on. It is not appropriate.

There are serious issues in the operation of Children's Health Ireland. We need to understand how we got here, the impact of the scandals on children and their families and where we go from here. I will touch on a few issues. I want to look at the pre-CHI historical issues, issues with CHI and the failure to address them, the HIQA report and looking to the future.

There are serious issues with children's healthcare in Ireland. That is not new. We have reports spanning over a decade that set out serious concerns. In 2014, a report on children's spina bifida services identified major service deficiencies and gross under-resourcing at local and national levels. Many of these recommendations remain unimplemented. In 2017, the Ombudsman for Children published a damning report on scoliosis surgery waiting lists that highlighted serious violations of the rights of a child. One case from the 2017 report was that of Harriet, who waited 17 months for surgery. I will read from the report to give a sense of the people and the pain they suffer. Harriet said:

... I was in too much pain and had to just stay in bed sometimes.

[...]

To explain, I was totally deformed, I was all off to one side. If I was lying on my side in bed, my rib cage would touch my hip on one side. The back pain wasn’t even the worst, my chest hurt a lot. My doctor said it was referred pain which meant that other parts of my body were getting hurt because my body was leaning on them. That just totally freaked me out. The girl who I ended up sharing my room with in Crumlin, her organs were being crushed for the same reason. You are always thinking worst-case scenario, you know, that you might end up in a wheelchair if something goes wrong. It's not fair to live [in fear] like that when there is a treatment for it.

She also referred to a meeting with a consultant who told her there was no timeframe for the surgery and "it could be two weeks or it could be 5 years."

There are serious issues going back - that was the 2017 report from the Ombudsman for Children. In that report, the ombudsman said the previous spinal surgery waiting list targets were "totally detached from the reality of this condition, and the suffering it causes to children." The ombudsman recommended that no child wait more than four months. The ombudsman said in the report that children were impacted "both psychologically and physically" and that it was a violation of their right to health. In response, the then Minister for Health, now the Tánaiste, Deputy Simon Harris, promised that no child with scoliosis would wait more than four months for surgery, a commitment that was never honoured.

Then, CHI was established in 2018. It has been dogged by controversy from the start. We have heard about grave failings in governance, oversight and internal communications that have never been addressed. Patients and staff have been repeatedly let down by mismanagement and chronic understaffing. It clear from what we have heard this evening and in the report that there are massive cultural issues in CHI. We have also heard it from whistleblowers. We should not be dependent on whistleblowers to expose these issues. That points to the real failure within CHI and in the culture of the organisation. Children with spina bifida and scoliosis in particular have been failed time and again. Their parents have lost all faith in the organisation. I met a group of parents recently. Úna Keightley, one of the parents, said that parents had "been forced to become campaigners, researchers and watchdogs." Parents should not have to go to the media to tell their stories or to become experts in children's medicine. Parents and their families should not feel sidelined and ignored. If we are to have a truly child-centric approach, children's views and concerns must be taken on board. Parents I have met describe the constant battle, the toll it takes on their wider families and the real impact it has on them. There are serious issues in the culture and operation of CHI and how it interacts with families. I think the Minister mentioned that in terms of communications. There are deep concerns.

That takes us to the HIQA report, the latest in a litany of reports detailing the failures of CHI and the impact on vulnerable children. The HIQA report sets out the serious failures in governance, oversight and communications. As we know, three children had unauthorised springs implanted in their spines. According to the HIQA findings, the non-alloyed springs used in those surgeries were known to corrode in the presence of moisture and there is very limited information available on their use or the risks of those used for implantation. These springs should never have even made it into the surgical theatre, let alone the bodies of children. How was this allowed to happen? Where are the ethical safeguards? It is clear these children have been utterly failed. HIQA found the arrangements in place for the use of medical devices and surgical implants were not standardised across CHI and there were unclear lines of reporting and accountability.

The report also found that culture and communication continue to be major issues across CHI, which has been reviewed in great detail in its external review of spinal surgery. Despite being commissioned in September 2023, there is still no definite timeline for the completion of the second review. Parents are still receiving letters telling them their children's cases will be included in the review. The 19 recommendations in the HIQA report must be implemented by CHI and the HSE. I would like to see a timeline for the remaining actions. The Minister said many had been done but I would like to see them set out.

The failings in that regard are by no means historical. They are live and real. It is important to keep an eye on the number of children waiting. CHI's active spinal surgery waiting list increased month on month from 108 in December to 137 at the end of last month. I agree with the Minister; it is about the length of time people are waiting, not necessarily the number. Some 48 of those children have been waiting for more than six months, a 33% increase since December. The previous Minister for Health promised that no more than 20 children would wait more than four months for spinal surgery by the end of 2024 as a result of new initiatives such as surgeries abroad. Surgeries abroad do not suit everybody, particularly in more complicated cases. There is concern that some complicated cases are being left to get worse. In a reply to a parliamentary question I submitted, CHI set out that nine children had surgeries suspended for clinical reasons. Of those, four had been suspended for more than 18 months. Will the Minister shed some light on these cases? Why are children's surgeries being suspended for such long periods? There is concern among advocates and families about those complicated cases. It needs to be addressed and discussed further.

Like others, I have concerns about the National Children's Hospital and CHI into the future. There are serious questions about the governance of CHI and its ability to manage the hospital safely. This critical infrastructure has come at huge cost, which more than doubled from €987 million in 2017 to approximately €2.2 billion. The keys must be put in a safe pair of hands. We have seen multiple controversies, including long waiting times for scoliosis surgeries, delays in appointing a new chief executive, concerns about money earmarked for scoliosis surgery being spent elsewhere and a lack of preparedness for the new hospital on many fronts. Two more reports are to be published on CHI. We still have concerns about workforce planning and guarantees. Does the Minister still have faith in CHI? Does she have faith it will run this hospital well? There are serious questions in that regard. We need to consider this issue, given the litany of failures, all of the scandals and the cultural issues set out in report after report spanning years, with more to come. We need to give serious consideration to this matter.

It is clear that children and families have been let down time and again. There are serious issues. I do not feel reassured that more will not be exposed. There are pending reports. We have concerns about the best operation of the new children's hospital. We have to get this right. It has to be done well. It is a huge investment. It is so important for the children of Ireland, patients and sick children. We have to ensure the best governance and standards and the right staff and culture in an organisation that will be critical for the next number of decades. It needs greater consideration. The health committee could examine this issue in more detail and bring CHI before it once we get up and running.

I thank the Minister for the time and space to discuss the issue.

I am grateful for the opportunity to make a statement on Children's Health Ireland, CHI, and to reflect on the recent deeply troubling revelations about the insertion of non-medical grade springs into the spines of children undergoing complex spinal surgery and the emergence of a divergence in clinical decision-making for the threshold for pelvic osteotomies for developmental dysplasia of the hip in children between separate sites in the CHI hospital group, comprising Crumlin, Temple Street and the National Orthopaedic Hospital Cappagh. These are distinct issues, but they raise the most serious questions about clinical governance and patient safety in the CHI group of hospitals.

As a Deputy and practising GP, I must begin by expressing my profound concern at the findings of the recent HIQA report on the use of non-medical grade springs in three children's complex spinal surgeries. The unauthorised use of non-approved implants in complex spinal surgeries, absent of ethical approval and appropriate clinical governance, is truly alarming. It is very difficult to comprehend how such a practice was allowed to occur. HIQA's report states that there were no overarching CHI-wide standardised governance structures and supporting policies and procedures in place for the introduction and use of medical devices. That is an astounding fact.

In addition, HIQA found that while corporate and clinical governance procedures were in place in the CHI group, they were overly complex and difficult to understand for management and staff at site-specific hospitals and within the overall CHI group. With the changes from 2019 onwards, there was a loss of experienced management and staff at Temple Street, resulting in a breakdown in communication and governance pathways. While there were a number of controls in place, these did not provide adequate safeguards at each stage of the end-to-end process for the introduction and use of the springs. This occurred across a number of stages in the process, including approvals processes, multidisciplinary teams, procurement, decontamination and use in theatre.

HIQA identified cultural differences in the orthopaedic department that mitigated against peer review and multidisciplinary decision-making for proposed surgeries. In effect, HIQA said the surgeons in the unit were not getting along and there was very little communication or peer review as a result. This is simply unacceptable. Teamwork in the interests of the patient should be a primary ethical and contractual obligation. These are systematic failures that allow individual failures in judgment to flourish.

In summary, there was a failure in regulatory and ethical procedures, clinical governance, medical device approval, the sourcing and procurement of medical devices, decontamination, traceability and consent. Consent is critical to this issue. Any procedure, most especially an experimental procedure, must be explained fully to the parents or guardians. The fundamental principle of informed consent must not be fudged or circumvented, most especially in complex high-risk surgery. The sense of failure, hurt, anger and helplessness on the part of parents is compounded by the lack of full disclosure of surgical intervention and its attendant risks.

HIQA also found that the management of the issues, once disclosed, could have been better. We need to remember at all times that the health service exists for patients and their families and they, not the organisation, are the centre of the service. Self-preservation of the organisation over the individual, something we have seen in many organisations, compounds the insult and never serves us well.

I welcome that CHI has accepted fully the HIQA report, is committed to implementing its recommendations with a quality improvement plan, is working with the Minister for Health proactively and is improving all aspects of the delivery of orthopaedic and spinal care at Temple Street and CHI more widely. I also welcome the comprehensive patient safety review and the assurance process into the paediatric orthopaedic surgery services under the independent expert, Mr. Nayagam. That review is in two parts, with a review of the work of surgeon A and a comprehensive review of the governance of the paediatric outpatient service at CHI. I also welcome the unqualified regret and apologies from CHI, the HSE and the Minister. It is the least we can do.

I want to address a very serious matter concerning developmental dysplasia of the hip, DDH, and the ongoing clinical audit examining surgical practices at CHI and the National Orthopaedic Hospital Cappagh. The issue was brought to light through a protected disclosure in September 23, and it centres on concerns that different thresholds for corrective surgery were being applied across sites. In practical terms, this means that a child presenting with the same clinical condition might have been offered surgery in one hospital but not another. Surgery may have been promoted in one hospital but not recommended in another. This kind of inconsistency raises questions about the standards of care, clinical decision-making and, ultimately, patient safety.

As a doctor and public representative, I find any suggestion that children may have undergone unnecessary or inappropriate procedures deeply unsettling. This is a matter that strikes at the heart of trust in our health system. We owe it to families to deal with this transparently and responsibly.

The Department of Health was formally notified in May 2024. A clinical audit was commissioned to examine the matter, led by Mr. Simon Thomas, an experienced international paediatric orthopaedic surgeon based in Bristol Royal Hospital for Children. That audit has reviewed a random anonymised sample of children between one and seven years of age who underwent pelvic osteotomy procedures for DDH between 2021 and 2023. While it is a relief that no patient safety incidents have been reported to date, that does not diminish the seriousness of what is being examined. At its core, this audit is about whether the clinical thresholds for surgery adhered to international standards and whether there was consistency across our natural national paediatric orthopaedic service.

The audit is now in its final stages. Feedback on the draft report has been received and is currently under review. Once that report has been completed, CHI and Cappagh have committed to publishing its findings. That is as it should be. Families deserve clarity, accountability and full transparency. In the meantime, steps have been taken to ensure that no child is offered surgery without a unified cross-site decision-making process, and I welcome that. Multidisciplinary decision-making and systemic safety netting are important in that process so that there is a combined professional approach to decision-making. It is a necessary safeguard that would have helped the children who had springs inserted into their spines and perhaps unnecessary surgeries carried out on their hips.

An action plan is also being developed to address any additional patient groups not covered by the original audit sample, which is also to be welcomed. Clinical follow-up will be offered, where appropriate, and clear communications issued to families as the situation evolves. We are learning.

I have heard concerns that not enough has been done or progress has been too slow, and I understand those frustrations. It is essential that this process be thorough, clinically sound and focused on facts. Only when the audit is complete can we truly understand what has happened, why it has happened and what needs to be done next. If unnecessary surgeries are found to have been carried out, then we need to know why that happened and for what reason. Was it poor clinical judgment or were there other reasons?

Accountability at a professional and corporate level will have to be sought. We owe that to the children affected and the parents who put their trust in our health service. While it is crucial that we discover poor practices and learn lessons, we must also acknowledge the progress that has been achieved. Significant additional funding for spinal surgeries for scoliosis and spina bifida, public health initiatives, including national immunisation programmes, neonatal supports and early developmental interventions, and the extension of GP service eligibility have led to measurable improvements in child outcomes. These gains are a credit to front line professionals and to sustained Government commitment.

The new national children's hospital is emblematic of the Government's commitment to children's medicine and wellbeing in Ireland, but ultimately the success of CHI will be judged not by its buildings but by the quality of care delivered within those buildings.

We must continue to work to ensure that every child in Ireland receives safe, timely and compassionate treatment.

This evening, we have gathered to speak about one of the most shameful failures of our health service in recent memory. God only knows how many children have undergone invasive, traumatic and completely unnecessary hip surgeries. We do not know, and that is the simple fact. We do not know exactly how many.

Children have been subjected to unnecessary surgeries and families have been left in the dark abandoned and betrayed. As a father of young children with experience of some of the hospitals under CHI's management, I can only imagine the anguish and fear these parents are going through. It is terrifying.

Audits show clear breaches of clinical standards. Even more shocking, and something that cannot be batted away this time, is the long silence that followed. Cá raibh an fhreagracht sna laethanta fada seo? Why was there a prioritisation of secrecy over a prioritisation of families being informed? We owe it to these families, and we owe it to the children who suffered, to act now and to act decisively.

We want to see a full and immediate publication of all relevant audits and reports. I reiterate that this scandal did not happen in isolation. The Government has known about these allegations for a long time, yet parents only learned of the audit after media reports. That is completely unacceptable. It is a systemic failure, and it is another systemic failure created by this Government. It is part of a litany of failures where children are being failed. We might look at the assessments of needs. Child homelessness has increased again. Special school spaces is an issue that has been brought up in this Chamber time and time again but is yet unresolved. The issues with children suffering with scoliosis, and child and adolescent mental health services have been well flagged inside and outside this Chamber.

Sinn Féin demands a full and immediate publication of all relevant audits and reports relating to the CHI scandal and a complete overhaul of governance structures at Children's Health Ireland. The high standards of governance we have been promised repeatedly, as families who access the healthcare system well know, is rarely a reality. Increased ethics and transparency standards and, above all, good governance, are now needed. I cannot be the only one who is completely terrified thinking about the kind of governance that will be in place when the new children’s hospital is finally finished.

I wish the Government all the very best to get the children's hospital up and running and for it to be a huge success, albeit a very expensive one. However, if the Government gets the management and governance of this wrong after all the time and money spent, no one will forgive it. I call on the Government TDs present to support our demands in Sinn Féin and support our motion this evening. Do not oppose the motion. It is a sensible, reasonable one that seeks to get to the bottom of this. We must protect our children and that begins today with truth, transparency and real accountability.

With regard to children's healthcare in Ireland and our Bill to address the scandals of misdiagnosis, I would like to briefly mention my personal experience. From two months old until two years, my son was prescribed antibiotics for throat infections. When he turned two years old, he was misdiagnosed with asthma. He was supposed to begin a lifetime of medication, steroids and inhalers. It was a worrying time for us all. Thankfully, we sought a second opinion from my wife's home country, which some might class as a developing country, where a few relatives are doctors. Describing the symptoms, they could tell us in five minutes over the telephone that it was unlikely to be asthma and was most likely to be mild reflux and advised us to change the baby milk formula and raise his bed 10 cm in height. Thankfully, the problem disappeared literally overnight and a life sentence of medication, inhalers and steroids was avoided. To give another example, not too long ago he had a painful ear infection. After an initial over-the-phone request for a €60 payment upfront, we were astounded to be informed of the magical over-the-phone diagnosis that they were planning for his ear infection - quite an amazing thing really. As a four-year-old, he also had to undergo an anaesthetic in hospital for surgery to extract a number of teeth, which was later deemed unnecessary. Last week, he became a teenager, and like so many local children I know, has gone through his entire school years since junior infants - he is now in secondary school - without ever having a dental or eyesight check other than what we had done privately. How at a time of such enormous wealth has it come to this sorry state of affairs that we have gone so far backwards from the time I started school, which is well over 50 years ago and when this State was poor? All of the above is symptomatic of a very broken system.

I really wish the Minister very well in her job and in her endeavours to clean up the mess that has resulted from decades of Government neglect of children's healthcare in the State under various health Ministries. However, to quote the Proclamation, if we are to cherish "all the children of the nation equally", we really need to see systematic change right from the very top to the bottom.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this very important debate on Children's Health Ireland. First, I want to acknowledge the 4,000 staff in the group who do outstanding work on a daily basis. However, the organisation itself is dysfunctional, it is in crisis, and it has experienced a litany of failures. This has led to a series of reviews and reports.

The most recent HIQA report, a statutory report carried out under section 8 of the Health Act 2007, dealt with three areas: governance at the hospital group; the use of implantable medical devices; and the use of non-medical grade springs in spinal surgery at Temple Street. The results of the report were that children were not protected from harm at the hospital, and the use of non-medical grade springs in spinal surgery is, fact, damning. The procurement, use and implementation of these non-medical springs, apparently without any knowledge, oversight or control, is hardly believable.

As someone who has a little experience in hospital management having worked for 21 years with the South Eastern Health Board as a hospital administrator in south Tipperary in two general hospitals and three district hospitals, I found the report hard reading and difficult. I was shocked by the report. Indeed, I am sure the public and the parents of children who used the hospital must find the report devastating. The report, in fact, paints a picture of organised chaos in the hospital. The public, parents, patients and staff at the hospital have been very badly let down by the board of Children's Hospital Ireland. There has been a significant and inexplicable failure of governance at the hospital.

The HIQA report commences with organisational and transformative change from November 2018. The report found that the "governance arrangements were overly complex and placed an onerous and unrealistic workload on clinical directors and senior managers." Reporting and oversight arrangements were unclear, clinical governance structures were "complex", accountability suffered and the oversight of the delivery of care was completely unsatisfactory. The report goes on to state: "The lack of standardisation in newly developing structures resulted in unclear lines of reporting and accountability ... to ensure the safe introduction and use of ... [procedures at the hospital]."

I believe that the board of Children's Health Ireland should stand down or be stood down. We cannot have confidence in the board arranging for the transfer of services to the new children's hospital. That is an important issue. It is important that the staffing arrangements for the new hospital are put in place early. The Fórsa trade union has called for immediate and meaningful engagement with Children's Health Ireland to ensure a comprehensive workforce plan and a viable staffing strategy.

This is a litany of systemic failures. It is not one incident here or there. Issues include non-medical springs being used, unnecessary hip operations being carried out, defective equipment repair mechanisms with regard to X-rays, IT - Wi-Fi used in the chemotherapy unit rather than having its own Internet - and infection rates way above the norms. These have been brought to light by whistleblowers.

Nothing less than the resignation of the board is needed to allow the hospitals to move forward. A public or statutory inquiry is the demand of parents. I know the Government is consistently setting its face against such an approach on the grounds it would take too long. We know that traditionally, the powers that be have drawn out inquiries for so long because it suits them.

I will mention an issue that has not been brought up, which is infection rates. Two separate parents brought CHI and Temple Street hospital to an inquest over the death of their children due to sepsis in 2022. When questioned whether hospital staff had received any training about sepsis recognition following the death of another child in similar circumstances, a registrar said there had been a review for learning points but was unsure when it had taken place. It seems far above and beyond the norm. The Boston report and an internal CHI report on spinal cases of children living with spina bifida at Crumlin and Temple Street hospitals found rates of 55% and 75% of infection, respectively. Why did nobody call a halt and investigate this?

We also have the issue of unnecessary hip operations. It was believed that at Temple Street hospital, 60% did not meet the criteria. We know that many of them were paid for privately. The question as to whether there was any financial motive for carrying out those operations is important.

Between 2020 and 2023, MAGEC rods were inserted into children during spinal surgeries despite warnings from both the manufacturer and the Health Products Regulatory Authority that they should never be used for that purpose. Such surgeries still went ahead. How can the Minister possibly talk about not giving the red card to this board? How can the board members be expected to take forward this hospital in any way following such a litany of errors?

I will also briefly mention staffing, which lies at the heart of so many of the issues. The Government has been trying to move away from any responsibility for what has happened at the hospital. As noted by HIQA, the sheer amount of work and lack of staff has to be partially responsible for the situation, in particular the spring incident. Key oversight staff in Temple Street were moved to the overview of CHI and were never replaced. The Government is well aware of that. In 2023, CHI noted to the HSE that it was 382.8 full-time roles short of being able to run the new children's hospital. We know there is a systemic problem in recruiting staff that has not been addressed. There is nothing for it only for this board to resign and for the Minister to concede that there should be a public inquiry.

What has happened in Temple Street is the abuse of vulnerable children. That abuse may have been motivated by a doctor or doctors who thought they knew best, were doing the best for the children and did not need to obey the rules. It may have been motivated by a hunt to maximise income through private health insurance. Regardless of the reason, it is abuse by individual doctors, such as Connor Green, who inserted the three metal springs and who also faces other allegations of malpractice. It is also abuse by individual doctors and individual wrongdoing that went undetected by the system. If not for the whistleblower, and the freedom of information, FOI, requests and parliamentary questions prompted by the whistleblower, we would not have had the internal review, the Boston review, the HIQA report or the Nayagam report that is due to the Irish Medical Council. That is the scariest part of all of this. If not for a brave whistleblower, springs could still be inserted in children today.

There are real cultural and governance issues in respect of the fact this was not spotted. One point made to me is that the CHI clinical director model means that one person sits over 12 specialties and is unable to keep an eye on what is happening. We should not treat the issue of unnecessary osteotomies on a massive and gross scale and unnecessary operations for hip dysplasia as separate issues to the malpractice of Connor Green. It was part of the same culture whereby there was bullying and intimidation, and where no one at Temple Street felt able to shout "Stop", or ask, "What is that spring doing in that child?" or, "Why are we having all these operations on children who clearly do not need them?" It is incredible.

The draft report suggests that 80% of hip operations at CHI were unnecessary, with the rate at 60% for Cappagh hospital. What does that look like for the families? I met Louise and Colin the week before last. They were in Temple Street with their daughter Emilia. Originally, there was a possibility that she would need an osteotomy on one hip. Thankfully, they went to another doctor at the hospital who told them it should be fine and that Emilia did not need such an operation. They then went to a particular doctor, whom I will not name at this stage, who said that Emilia definitely needed an osteotomy on both hips. The mother was uneasy with the manner of the doctor. She was uneasy with how eager he was to do the operation. She felt this was not right but was in a situation whereby a doctor was telling her that she must do something. She was not able to bring her daughter to the hospital that day. She blames herself, when she should not blame herself at all.

Afterwards, Emilia lost weeks of playschool. She was six before she could walk properly. The operation happened in 2018. Emilia was the slowest to do a cartwheel and the last to ride a bike. Until she was seven and a half years old, she would say her legs were sore. She was discharged at six years of age. She had been told she would have annual check-ups until she was 16 but was suddenly discharged when she was six. Just a few months ago, when Emilia was nine, Louise was watching a debate on Leaders' Questions and asked Emilia if she still had any problems with her hips. Emilia told her that she only gets pain when she walks up the stairs.

The scariest part of the story is not what happened to Emilia. It is that Louise's second daughter, Hannah, had an eye condition at the time. When the hospital was discharging Emilia, the doctor in question said he would like to check Hannah. The mother said that was not necessary because Hannah had been checked in the Coombe but the doctor was absolutely obsessed. He checked, logged into the CHI database and looked at the scan. He said he was not happy with the situation and suggested that Hannah needed both hips done. Louise went back to the Coombe, where the doctor said that was a load of nonsense and that Hannah did not need either of her hips done. Thankfully, Hannah did not get the operations.

Emilia's case is not included in the audit because it happened in 2018 and the audit runs from 2021 to 2023. Every hip operation will need to be looked at in order for these parents to get support. The Nayagam report is going to be damning for Connor Green. Every surgery that Connor Green did, including on adults, needs to be looked at. I know of a horrifying case of an adult who was pressured into what seems to have been an inappropriate surgery. We need to broaden our examination as well as having a public inquiry.

I first acknowledge the great staff in the HSE across the country. This is not a criticism of them. When something like this happens, we must reflect on why it has happened. I also acknowledge the work being undertaken by the new Minister and Ministers of State. I appreciate their commitment to getting things right and to the reform that is necessary. However, that commitment is going to be tested. In many of the contributions to this debate, Members have referred to systemic failure. There was not a systemic failure; people failed. They failed the young children of this country because nobody was prepared to shout loud enough to stop what was going on. That non-medical metal springs were used is outrageous. It does not matter if they were used on one child, ten children or whatever the number may be. The fact it might be a small number makes no difference. It happened. It was allowed to happen and nobody cried, "Stop". Without the whistleblower, where would we be?

As in many other cases, we are now at a point whereby systemic failure and communication are being blamed. A whistleblower has come forward and I wonder how that whistleblower is going to be penalised.

That is the way the HSE and the system operates. We will have another debate on Thursday and it is the same system and the same reasons, and nobody is mentioning sanctions or people or exposing the truth. When the audit is completed, I would like to see it published fully without redactions and dealing with the issues with less of the padding that goes with all of these reports.

HIQA found the controls in place in CHI for the management of end-to-end processes did not provide adequate safeguards. That is a truly shocking statement. We in this House can become numb to what is said and how it is said. We have to keep on checking ourselves; it is people we are talking about and it is young children we are talking about.

I do not doubt the Minister's credentials for achieving what she wants to achieve but in her opening remarks she addressed the issue of communication. How many of the children with autism and their families who cannot access proper services were contacted? How many of them are on waiting lists for assessment, for a place in an ASD unit or for having their issues dealt with? If I was to judge from my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny, I would say there is a shocking number of children involved in this and they are not being communicated with or getting the services. I do not want to take from the debate about CHI but I want to say to the Minister that it is the very same for those with autism. She mentioned the communication piece. I would like to see a communication piece in relation to those who have been left out of the system without being looked after or protected. I would like to know they will be protected in the future and will get services not in the future but now. I could name a list of families that are affected, but suffice it to say there is a considerable number. Can I get them to contact someone directly in the Minister's office? Can I ask directly that each of those families be communicated with? The 2023 protected disclosure led to the then Minister being informed in May 2024. If we are that concerned about the children of this country, why has it taken so long for this to come to light and be dealt with in the appropriate manner, and for us to have this debate? It is because this is another cover-up and another attempt to hide the truth and allow the Department and CHI to put a narrative out there and fail to deliver again in terms of the audit. I hope I am wrong and there is a new day and a new departure, but I doubt it very much because the culture within CHI and the HSE is so corrupt that they first set out not to deal with the issues but to cover up the truth. This is a fact borne out by many reports. I say again that shortly there will be the ongoing scandal of children with autism not being supported.

I finish by reiterating my original point, which is that it was not systemic failure. It was the failure of people in management positions who could have cried "Halt" to all of this. We may get some satisfaction out of airing our views in this House but I will not be satisfied until I see someone accepting responsibility for the failure to deal with this issue and the many other issues facing the children of this country.

It is important in dealing with this debate that we give reassurance to parents because they have gone through a difficult time. When a child needs any kind of surgical procedure, it is always challenging for parents to face into that. Are they making the right decision? Are they getting the right advice? Should they follow through? When they come across a difficulty like this and have to deal with it, they in some cases put the blame on themselves. They should not take any blame for anything that occurred here because they did the best for their child on the basis of the advice given to them. We need to acknowledge the priority that must be given to children who have a medical challenge in their lives, whether it relates to hip operations or any surgical procedure or whether it is cancer care. They must be given priority as regards how we care for them and be given the maximum support and the highest quality of care. Because they are not able to fight their own corner, they rely on us and their parents to fight their corner for them.

It is important in any debate on medical issues to acknowledge the staff in our hospitals: nurses, doctors, care assistants, consultants, porters, management staff, right across the board. Every one of them goes to work in the morning and wants to provide the best possible care to the people they look after. Errors occur but the question is how to prevent those errors from occurring and how to have a system with checks and balances. The objective is to eliminate mistakes and ensure mistakes are not made.

In this case, non-CE marked metal springs were used in the period 2020 to 2022. In the summer of 2023, public concerns were raised about their use and the surgical procedures that were taking place. In October 2023, the then Minister wrote to HIQA regarding serious patient safety issues and the need for an investigation. In the amalgamation of the hospital structure in Dublin into the new national children's hospital, it is interesting to see the changes occurring and the challenges managerial staff, nursing staff and doctors face. Page 28 of the report states:

HIQA found that CHI was experiencing significant organisational and transformational change during the time period of this review - November 2018 to July 2023. Relevant factors at national level which impacted the change included:

- the COVID-19 pandemic[...]

- the cyber-attack which occurred across public healthcare IT systems in May 2021 which also impacted CHI significantly

- the continuing uncertainty of the substantial completion date of the National Children’s Hospital having a significant impact on planning and implementation for the organisation, including the recruitment of specialist contract staff and consultants required to commission the National Children’s Hospital.

Those were the challenges they faced at the time and at such a time there is a need to be even more careful and to ensure all checks and balances are in place. The ethics and research committee had not approved the use of the springs.

The ethics oversight process was in place at CHI Temple Street. It was important to work within the guidelines and with the approval of the ethics committee, but no such approval was given. No formal structure or process was in place to support the surgical multidisciplinary team at CHI Temple Street. The clinical director was not made aware of the intended use of these springs. No contracts were in place to carry out any type of safety or technical checks in respect of what was happening and springs were not ordered, tracked or listed on the business management system. None of that should have occurred. These are major errors that were made because someone decided they did not need to go through all of these processes.

There is a big challenge ahead. When we move to the new children's hospital, we will need to be even more careful that slip-ups are not made and there are no long-term consequences for the people who require care.

In terms of understanding healthcare, it is important to understand the rotational nature of the people working within the system, whether they are trainee nurses who have just started and are trying to acquire the skills, or a doctor who starts off as an intern, SHO, registrar, senior registrar or consultant and is moving around from hospital to hospital because it is part of the training process. It is important that while they are in the training process, if they see something not being properly carried out, they feel they can highlight the issue without being worried about their long-term promotional prospects. One of the things we need to be careful about in the medical system is the fact that people who identify a problem can be afraid to raise it.

We have seen the report of the Health Information and Quality Authority. Once we receive all of the reports, we need to ensure that every possible process is put in place so we do not have a repeat of this situation. Fifty or 60 years ago, procedures were carried out on women in maternity care but it took us 50 years to acknowledge the wrong that was done. Let us make sure in this case that we deal with the issue now and put proper processes in place to ensure it does not happen again at any time in the future.

I wish the Minister well in her position. We all get involved in politics because we want to do the right thing. I, too, acknowledge the wonderful staff in the health system, but this is about accountability and responsibility, both of which are lacking within CHI. I sometimes shudder when I listen to the words of CHI, and I will tell the Minister why. Katie Burke, who is now a young woman, has been waiting 14 years, seven months and five days for a hip operation. We were talking about unnecessary hip operations a while ago but this girl has been 14 years, seven months and five days waiting for a procedure. When she started off as a very young girl, the excuses within the children's health system at the time were that she would not be strong enough or that as she had cerebral palsy, she might clot. This went on for years and years until, suddenly, last year, Katie turned 17 and because she is not a child anymore, she is now in the adult section.

The biggest problems for me are not just the mental health issues of that individual but also her family. How can we have faith in a system that basically misleads a child? We have evidence from surgeons in America that they can carry out this operation, so it can be done. However, specialists in Ireland say it cannot be done successfully. That poor girl has been 14 years, seven months and five days waiting. She is still in pain. She and her mother will be outside Leinster House at 12 noon tomorrow. I am reaching out and asking the Minister to meet them and look at the details, which are self-explanatory.

It is frightening that we are talking about scandal after scandal. This is my third term in the House. I feel very privileged to be here. However, between the mother and baby homes, the vaginal mesh issue, the unnecessary hip operations on children and the Grace case - we will not go into the disability or mental health services - nobody seems to be held accountable or responsible.

What is worrying about the case of this poor child is that she has been told she can get the operation in the United States and that she will have an opportunity to walk again, but for more than 14 years, no matter where she went or who she went to, she was told it will not work. In fact, on her first visit to the adult section in Dublin, she was told that if they did operate, she might never walk again. That poor girl is tortured and demented. I am tortured and demented. I will give the Minister all the details of the case. I appeal to her to look at them.

That is only one of the scandals. On the same point about accountability and responsibility, I know of the case of another young girl where there was a mess-up somewhere within the HSE. The poor girl is now six and is in severe pain, but the HSE will not rectify the problem because it is afraid of repercussions as it basically fecked up the first operation. The mother is willing to engage with the HSE and sign a disclosure to say that the issue is gone once the HSE sorts out the child, but it will not even engage.

I pity the Minister in her job. None of us know everything but I want to flag this. I will engage with anybody. Deputy Colm Burke knows me of old. I am very straight talking and fair. The Minister can hear it in my voice. All of us in this Chamber want to do the right thing. However, there is misrepresentation by the senior management and clinicians, who say, “It is my patch, they are my rules and that is it.” I cannot understand, when we see the evidence, including the contradictory evidence from experts elsewhere in the world, how this girl can be left for 14 years, seven months and five days without any hope or encouragement. It is shocking. I appeal to the Minister.

I would certainly look into CHI. We have a system that is top-down and top-heavy in nature. It is like any of us in any job. We are not going to be told the truth by everybody because they are protecting their own patch. I appeal to the Minister. I will tell her straight out that anything I can do to assist her, I will do. I appeal on behalf of this family. In the case of the other poor child, the mother’s heart is broken. I ask the Minister to work with us. As I said, we are all here to do the right thing. The Minister, I and everybody else in this House know that one of the greatest rewards we can get in our job is when somebody says “Thanks for that.” All we want is that thanks. I appeal to the Minister and I will reach out to her again on that.

A wrong that has been done to a child is a wrong we should all be ashamed of. Today, we gather in the shadow of not one scandal but a series of failures that stretch across the institution entrusted with the care of our youngest and most vulnerable children's health. First, there was the horror of the Temple Street spinal surgery scandal, where children already burdened with illness were subject to surgeries that raised grievous concerns. How many were left with more suffering than healing? Where was the oversight? Where was the compassion? Then came the flood of revelations about the systematic governance failures and the collapse of responsibility at every level, with reports hidden, families kept in the dark and decisions made behind closed doors. Is this the Ireland that we are proud to leave to the next generation?

We hear calls from across the Dáil and from broken-hearted parents for the board to resign and for an independent investigation. Let me be clear: an investigation is not a favour to the people; it is a duty owed to them. Anything less is an insult to every family that trusted the system with their child.

We are told surgeries have been cancelled because of resource constraints and children were lying in pain because budgets could not stretch far enough, while management salaries soared and new hospital projects blew through every promised deadline and cost ceiling. What of the new children's hospital, the project that was meant to be a beacon of hope? It now stands as a monument to waste, delay and mismanagement, with billions spent, years lost and trust the greatest loss of all.

It is not enough to wring our hands and draft more reports. It is not enough to trade blame across these benches like farmers swapping cattle at a mart. We must act and act decisively. We must have a full independent public inquiry with no half-measures, no internal reviews and no political shielding. Every family affected must have the truth in plain language, not buried under legal jargon and committee findings. We must reform the very bones of our healthcare governance, replace opacity with transparency, replace political appointments with merit and integrity, and restore the sacred trust between patient and care and between family and State.

Independent Ireland believes in a healthcare system where no child waits in agony for cancer surgery, where no parent has to learn from a newspaper that their child's care was compromised and where promises made are promises kept. We must rise now to meet this moment.

The Minister is a person of her word. I am glad she came to UHL unannounced. It was great to see that she went there. I heard from staff and management that they were delighted to see her come unannounced because it gives her first-hand knowledge. She made that commitment to me. I told her I would work with her to help UHL. She has done the first part for which I thank her.

There is something else I will ask for the Minister's help on. A woman contacted me today who has three children aged between ten and 12 who have special needs. She has been separated for nine years and has worked all her life. She has very little support from her ex-partner. She works full time to try to cater for her three children, two of whom have special needs and are non-verbal. She qualifies for nothing. Every time she looks for something she is told that she does not qualify because she is working. If she gave up work, she could not care for the children herself because of their age. As she is working, she is being told that she qualifies for nothing. She has asked for a buggy for one of her children. The child, who is in a buggy for an eight-year-old, is now aged 11. If she has to go to UHL through accident and emergency, she has to put that 11-year-old child into a buggy meant for an eight-year-old. She is asking for help. As I said, she has worked all her life and is giving full-time care to her children. She does all the care herself at weekends, but to get them the care, help and all the resources they need, she is working. She is being told at every turn that she qualifies for nothing. I ask for the Minister's personal help on this. I will give her the details. I again thank her for fulfilling her commitment.

I thank the Minister and the Minister of State for their statements, but after what has happened at Children's Health Ireland statements are not enough. Questions need to be answered. Children were harmed, families were failed and trust was shattered by this Government. For the Minister to offer only words today, she should be subject to questions in the Dáil, and answer those questions that arose during this debate alone.

Independent Ireland has said plainly that this is not just a failure of hospitals and the HSE; it is a failure of Government. It is a failure of Government oversight and leadership. While families were crying out for help, the State turned away. While warning signs flashed red, those in charge chose delay over duty and confusion over clarity. This is not just misfortune. This is mismanagement that is serious, systemic and utterly shameful. The public demand more than just an apology. They demand action and accountability. We must have a proper investigation, not run by insiders or for political convenience, but a real, fearless examination of what has gone wrong and who exactly is responsible. Not one more scandal must be buried, not one more child must be failed and not one more family left to fight alone. The measure of a country is how it treats its vulnerable. Today, that measure of this Government and this country stands condemned.

It is absolutely phenomenal that we have two separate unpublished reports into two separate scandals involving CHI at the moment yet, despite that, the Government is still backing the board of CHI. We know that in one case children were subjected to unnecessary surgeries, where they did not meet the threshold for surgery. Separately, we know that poorly sourced springs or coils made from corrosive material were implanted into the spines of children, which significantly damaged these children. It is an incredible situation that the Government is standing strong behind CHI in this situation. A whistleblower made a protected disclosure to the Department in September 2023. There are key questions around that. We need to know whether the surgeries continued after that whistleblower made that information known to the former Minister.

When he was very young, my second eldest son had a procedure in a hospital that necessitated going under an anaesthetic. It was not as severe as any of the cases we are speaking to. It was ten years ago, but I still remember the fear on his face as I left that room. I still remember the difficulty I had in leaving that room and my son behind in that particular situation. If I found out afterwards that the procedure did not have to happen, that the procedure was actually doing damage to my son and was causing pain or discomfort or necessitated extra surgery on the back of that, I would be enraged, furious and disgusted at the system. Any parent in a similar situation would be in exactly the same situation. Yet, that is exactly what is happening here.

There are significant problems with CHI. We have raised these issues many times in the Dáil. A level of gaslighting is happening in respect of the HSE, CHI and the Department. Looking at CHI and who is on its board, we see businesspeople more than medical experts. One is a former HR director at Brown Thomas. Another is a business consultant, another is a lawyer, another is a former Secretary General of the Department of Education and so on. The reality is they have failed children. They are refusing to answer questions in the media. We believe they should resign.

In 2023, a clinical lead from CHI was asked questions about intensive care beds in the new children's hospital. Many operations for children are being cancelled at the moment for the lack of intensive care beds. That clinical lead admitted that the intensive care beds in their entirety would not be open until long after the hospital is opened at the new campus. However, that person said there will be a balcony where nurses can have their lunches, there will be Wi-Fi, there will be plugs and that these are must-haves in a national children's hospital. I say that intensive care beds are must-haves when it comes to a national children's hospital. Another example of the gaslighting of parents is we are told that the national children's hospital will not open until 2026. The excuse from the Department is it is too risky to move these children through the winter months. How do hospitals in cold-climate countries do such a thing? This can be done.

In fact, they do.

Children's Health Ireland is a publicly-funded hospital group in disarray. We have had the ongoing issues with spinal surgeries, the shocking use of non-medical grade springs for scoliosis, which my colleagues mentioned so I will not go into it even though it is such an important issue, and the massive waiting lists. Later, we will discuss the large number of unnecessary hip surgeries, which again raises questions about clinical judgment and governance. Added to this, we have had alarmingly high infection rates in certain hospitals, which should never be allowed to happen.

We then have the IT systems issue. Protected whistleblower disclosures suggest, for example, that chemotherapy procedures for children at Crumlin are being cancelled because the IT system is totally inadequate, with on overdependence on dodgy Wi-Fi and no wired connection. Whistleblowers have also claimed that a failing Wi-Fi system over a number of weeks meant they had no PCs or printers to make and administer chemotherapy. This is shocking if it is true. We have also heard stories of surgeons at Temple Street and Crumlin children's hospitals routinely starting operations on children without the help of vital X-rays to guide them. Other allegations include staff being allowed to work without Garda vetting, a failing back-up PC in an intensive care unit at Temple Street children's hospital and, allegedly, a further 324 unresolved IT issues because of an IT dispute.

There is no training in infection control or the correct way to use PPE in some of these hospitals. There have been allegations of many other generally unsafe practices. These are allegations but they need to be thoroughly investigated as soon as possible. Even without these allegations, we already know that Children's Health Ireland is a total mess.

The acting chief executive and the interim deputy chief executive have both stepped down from their roles. Most recently, the chairman of the board of management resigned. The whole board needs to be reconstituted and management reassessed. This cannot be claimed as a Government achievement; it is a Government failure.

I congratulate the Minister on her appointment. She has a narrow window of opportunity to take meaningful action or else, as she will be aware, people will be calling for her resignation also. Hopefully, the Minister will take the bull by the horns. The issues are too serious to let this rot continue.

Anois ar ais go dtí an Ríaltas, glaoim ar an Teachta Brian Brennan.

I am listening with great interest to this debate. I am listening not only as a TD but also as a parent. I was there. I have two beautiful young children. One is seven and one is six. My young son has cystic fibrosis. My son was called to Cappagh hospital to see the consultant under investigation. I went there with my wife. We met the consultant. He told us, literally straight away, that my son needed surgery. I asked, like any parent would, about the pluses and the minuses. He explained them. I said, "Leave the decision with us." It was a long drive back to Wexford. As we drove in the gateway to our house, I told my wife, "We are not going ahead." My son has cystic fibrosis, as I mentioned, and he had been through enough. I am a lucky parent but my heart - I am emotional on this - goes out to every other parent who has been affected. It is so wrong.

I wrote a speech, but I am speaking from my heart. It is wrong, on so many levels, that someone can look a child in the eye and say "We need to do surgery on you", when surgery is not needed. I appeal to the Dáil to let justice take its course. Thankfully, I am in here and I will do everything I can to help justice take its course.

This is simply horrific. It is unfair. I am upset but I am also annoyed. It is so wrong, as I said, to attack the most vulnerable in society. Let justice take its course. I am speaking from the heart on this.

Thanks for sharing your real story. It is so sad.

From the Independents, an Teachta Carol Nolan and Deputy Gillian Toole are sharing time.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important matter. Obviously, it is upsetting for so many parents across the State and for even TDs here who have had personal experience in some form or other.

We should always at least try and avoid the temptation to make any single institution the scapegoat for what are clearly systemic problems around governance and the care of children in the health service. We have fantastic people working in the health service, but where there are issues. Where mistakes are made, we need responsibility, we need accountability, we need the problems to be resolved and we need to make sure those problems never occur again. That is something that we all need to be committed to.

Unfortunately, children have been on the receiving end of appalling service deficits since long before the CHI scandal emerged. That said, it is impossible to stand here, having reviewed the record of CHI since its establishment in 2019, and be anything other than appalled at the sheer horror caused by its grievous failures. I look back now at the debate in September 2018, when the what became the Children's Health Act was introduced by the former Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris. The Act provides CHI with its statutory remit. At the time, Deputy Harris stated that CHI had been given broadly worded functions that would:

... provide clarity, authority and certainty relating to its leadership role nationally in paediatric healthcare and the national model of care. It will deliver on its remit for education, research, philanthropy and advocacy on behalf of children's health care in this country.

He also stated that the new entity would be led by a 12-member competency-based board appointed by the Minister for Health. This makes it absolutely clear that there is an element of political and ministerial accountability that cannot be evaded. The Ministers who have been and gone appointed the leadership of CHI and, yet, time and time again, it has displayed catastrophic failures of judgment, of which that relating to the national children's hospital is the most recent and blatant. We can sit here and rightly condemn CHI for its institutional failures but we must also insist on political accountability or this cycle of vicious incompetence will never end.

I have met the parent of a child who has fought for so long to get an operation for her child. What she has said to me is that as well as the frustration and the upset, there is a serious vacuum when it comes to communication. That certainly is something that should be easily fixed. We need communication with parents whose children are caught up in this or those of children who are still waiting for important and major operations.

Gabhaim buíochas leis na hAirí as ucht bheith anseo um thráthnóna. In relation to CHI, I concur with everything I have heard since coming to the Chamber and in the snatches I heard throughout the afternoon when I was no in attendance. Rather than repeat what has been said by colleagues, I will focus on a few areas that I would like to see prioritised. One of them follows on from this afternoon's reform committee meeting. I refer to the formation and the commencement of the committees, particularly the health committee and the children's and disability committees and the fact that there will be regular attendance at those committees by the management of CHI and the HSE and departmental officials. The attendance piece, the accountability, the reporting back and the flagging of issues are extremely important in the context of moving forward in a productive manner while prioritising, above all else, the health of the children of this country. Appropriate board membership is an absolute essential for CHI, as is the adequate resourcing of the front-line teams within the organisation, in the new children's hospital and in the satellite units in Tallaght, Drogheda and elsewhere. There must be particular focus on built-in capacity to deal with absences.

I will go a little off point and talk about CHI in the broad sense as opposed to focusing on the situation in the hospitals. I refer to something that we have all dealt with, even in the short time I have been here, in terms of future-proofing and forward planning, namely nourishment, food and food production. When we think of infancy and the sequence of life from the cradle to the grave, the common denominator food. When we go back to the founding father of medicine, Hippocrates, he said, "Let food be thy medicine". Another matter that we have to take account of is food production, particularly in the context of nourishment and where it has an impact. I refer here to the online advertising of food and drink products to children and the impact on their emotional well-being and sensory and intellectual abilities. That is taking children's health in the broadest sense.

I, too, am pleased to be able to speak on this matter. I wish both Ministers well in their roles. I sincerely thank Deputy Brennan for putting away his notes and talking from the heart, and my colleagues here for doing so as well.

We have to have heart. Have we no heart to see what has been happening since the HSE was set up? In my honest opinion, it was set up by Mary Harney - maybe I am wrong - to create a buffer for the Government when it comes to accountability. My late brother was a paediatrician of some renown. The Minister saw, during her visit to Clonmel, the wonderful memento that is up there for his work. He loved and cared for children all over the world, especially in Africa, and he could not understand how they were being buried in just their clothes in the clay.

His wife told me that he had taken 250 coffins - little white boxes he made himself - for those children. I refer to the humanity of it. We are privileged to be in this House, but if we cannot do justice for the most vulnerable and people who are sick, especially children, what are we here for? When will somebody take accountability for the HSE, Children's Health Ireland and HIQA? I could name them all. There are many good people working in those organisations, but as organisations, they have gobbled themselves up in cover-up and deceit to protect the system and certain individuals in it. We have seen it too many times.

I wish the Minister well. I hope she will be able to do it. She visited Clonmel last week. I was shocked to see the number of senior managers, layers of them I had never met before and who had new titles. That is what is said of the self-serving HSE and CHI. The board should be gone. If the members of CHI's board do not have the good grace to go, they should be sacked. There is no accountability. Sick children, the elderly and people with autism are suffering. History books will be written about that, and there will be shame on all of us in this House for allowing it to happen and that they did not get the services.

I thank the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, for highlighting the ongoing challenges we are addressing in paediatric healthcare services in our country. Like everyone in government, I am deeply concerned by the issues that have come to light regarding Children's Health Ireland and the use of unapproved medical devices in spinal surgeries at Temple Street university hospital. This incident has understandably caused significant distress among the families affected and has raised serious questions about the governance and oversight within CHI. My first concern is for the children and families who have been impacted by these failings. The trust that parents place in our healthcare services to provide safe and effective treatment for their children is paramount, and it is clear that this trust has been breached.

Lives and lived experience are matters I talk about a lot as Minister of State with responsibility for mental health. I heard Deputy Brian Brennan speak about his son and family and the challenges he has with his young boy. It is important that we hear all these stories. The majority of Deputies are either aunts or uncles, mothers or fathers, or brothers or sisters. We cannot underestimate the importance of the lived and living experience, which is why I welcome that the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, has listened to the advocacy groups and the experiences they have shared. She has listened with concern to issues that I have raised and other TDs have brought to her attention, each one a reminder of the real-life story behind every single case. The Minister attended the paediatric spinal task force meeting earlier this month. Yesterday and today, she had the opportunity to meet advocacy groups requesting that children, young people and families affected by spinal conditions, such as scoliosis and spina bifida, get the help and support they need in a timely manner.

If one's child is attending a CAMHS team, has a disability or is waiting for early intervention in psychology, the family and the parent behind that are heartbroken. This is about very sick children. The families need our help. One of the Deputies mentioned the effect this had on the mental health of a parent or family when they were waiting for supports and the challenges those people faced. We have to address these issues head-on and fully implement the recommendations outlined in the HIQA report to restore confidence in our paediatric healthcare services. Many Members have said it in the Chamber today; a huge amount of really good work goes on in paediatric services. There are hospitals across Dublin and the wider country where nurses and doctors are working tonight. They will do a night shift and go home to their own families in the morning. It is really important that we not be worried about governance issues. One has to be able to respect the services and management that are there, and be able to go home at night-time if one's child is sick knowing the child will be well looked after and that proper governance is in place.

I compliment HIQA on the report it published three weeks ago. It is a stark reminder of what happens when safeguards fail. The most important thing we can do as Oireachtas Members and as a Government is make sure that the safeguards are put in place and will not fail again.

I thank Deputies for all of their contributions, both in this debate tonight and in different ways as we work together.

We are having this debate as a direct result of the HIQA report, which dealt with three cases of the incorrect insertion of non-surgical grade materials into the bodies of young children. I was asked this evening whether I had apologised to the families; it was the first line of my statement. The very first thing I did was to apologise to the families directly. I have offered to meet them, and I am always available to meet families who wish to discuss these things with me. While there are a number of governance, structural and other issues that have to be worked through, at the end of the day, what we are here for - certainly what I am here for - is to make the experience of patients in the paediatric system better. We have to remember, as many Deputies have said, that there is so much that is going well within the paediatric system.

The situation can be broken into three categories. There are illnesses that are being well and appropriately managed and emergencies that are being appropriately responded to. Believe me, I have been in the paediatric system and have had that experience. Then there are illnesses that are not being well-managed or are being made worse because of decisions within the paediatric system. That is our second category. This HIQA report, however, relates to the third category, which is actual harm being done through wrongness. The HIQA report alludes to a well-intentioned background and there are other reports that I have not received that we will discuss. We will discuss motivations in those things, but actual harm being done through wrongness is a totally different category. We have to conceive of our improvements in the paediatric system thinking about all three of those categories, namely, illnesses that are responded to and managed well, those that are not and the problem of actual harm. I am conscious of that and the impact on the families.

Deputies have raised a number of important structural issues. I will do my best to respond to as many as I possibly can. I know the HIQA DDH report is related to the next business on the schedule. To be clear, I have asked and made sure with the HSE and CHI CEOs that this report will be published in full, excluding the personal details. It is an initial audit that covers a certain period - I am aware that there are other cases, and we will discuss them - but I have not received it. I know we will discuss it in greater detail. The Nayagam report was commissioned on behalf of the HSE CEO specifically because he was not comfortable enough with the internal CHI response. Deputies have correctly asked me about the implementation of the rest of the recommendations. I am given to understand that the end of quarter 2 - June - is when the remaining recommendations will be complete, but I will update the Deputies.

I have also been asked a number of times about the CHI board, the governance structures and moving into the next hospital. They are the same questions that I would ask and have asked. As I said at the outset, there are two things we need to do much better over the coming 12, 14, 16 or 18 months. The first is to open the hospital. The second is, obviously, to ensure that we have the improvements in spinal surgeries that we all want to achieve. The legal structure is under the 2018 Act, where the board is constructed, created and managed differently to any board I have ever seen before, in the sense that it does not have the same direct ministerial - I do not want to use the word "control" - direction-----

-----or oversight that it might otherwise have. For example, of the 12 members, four are nominated by the Minister, four are nominated by the board itself and approved by the Minister and the chairperson is chosen by the members of the board. Therefore, it is a bit different. My concern is that, whatever happens 16 or 18 months from now, we have a functional governance structure that enables us to do those two most important things. However, I hear what the Deputies have said to me about their perspectives on this over time. What I am trying to manage is the governance over the other issues.

One concern I have is that I said something incorrectly. Forgive me if I did. To be clear regarding the number of orthopaedic consultants and posts we have, there are nine consultants in post. Four additional orthopaedic consultants are being recruited, one of whom is expected to begin during the summer but none of whom is in post. If I spoke incorrectly, and I feel that I did, I wish to be very clear in that regard.

Regarding the publication of the DDH report - we will come back to this in the next debate - I have some concerns about how a couple of Deputies said that people only found out through media reports. The fact of the audit has been public since June or July 2024. That is an important clarification.

On workforce planning and staffing of all areas, not just paediatrics and spinal surgeries, but the hospital more broadly, there is engagement with unions and there is engagement between the HSE and CHI to agree that workforce plan. Regardless of who stands here - it could be any of us - we are going to have the same difficulties in terms of recruitment and the availability of surgical staff, doctors and nurses. We have 52 funded posts, 22 of which are in situ. Interviews are progressing. I will do everything I can to advance and expedite recruitment but I am under the same constraints as any other person would be. We need to work together on it and have a clear recruitment plan and funding in place. We are trying to recruit and attract from different places. Certainly, the interviews and the wider recruitment process goes on.

I am conscious that I am out of time and that we are now about to speak about something very similar. Perhaps I can address this further then.

I thank the Minister. That concludes statements on Children's Health Ireland.

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