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JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FOOD díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 15 Dec 2004

Bovine Diseases (Levies) Regulations 2004: Motion.

A motion regarding the Bovine Diseases (Levies) Regulations 2004 has been referred to the joint committee for consideration by Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann. The committee has been asked to report back to both Houses by Thursday, 16 December. I hope we will do this by midnight at the latest.

I welcome the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, and her officials. This is the first occasion on which she has attended a meeting of the joint committee but I am sure there will be many more such occaions. I congratulate her on her appointment and invite her to make her opening comments.

I thank the Chairman for his words of welcome. This is my first opportunity to meet the joint committee and, God sparing, I am sure we will have a very good working relationship.

The motion seeks the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas of draft regulations, the Bovine Diseases (Levies) Regulations 2004, copies of which were laid before Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann, to be made under the Bovine Diseases (Levies) Act 1979. Their purpose is to fix the rates of disease levies from 1 January 2005 as follows: 11 cent per gallon of milk for processing and €2.54 per animal slaughtered or exported live. These amounts represent reductions of 33% under both headings.

The 1979 Act provides for disease levies to be applied to milk deliveries for processing and cattle slaughtered or exported to facilitate the eradication of TB and brucellosis in cattle. The purpose of the levies is to ensure the financial participation of the farming community in meeting the cost of running the schemes and, in particular, the cost of compensation paid to farmers. The Act also provides that, where rates of levies are being prescribed, draft regulations must be laid before each House of the Oireachtas and that they may not be made until a resolution approving them has been passed by both Houses.

As the committee is aware, my Department operates programmes to control and eradicate TB and brucellosis from the cattle herd with a view to protecting public health, improving animal health and meeting EU trading and legislative requirements. These programmes, which have been in place for many years, are comprehensive and have succeeded in maintaining cattle 99.5% free of TB and 99.9% free from brucellosis. Apart from this, they have facilitated continued access for our livestock and livestock products to both EU and third-country markets. In other words, without them, we could not trade.

The position is that under EU trading rules, member states are required to carry out annual testing in order to maintain the official TB-free status of herds unless, in the two preceding years, less than 1% of herds are infected. The testing regime can be reduced where the herd incidence is below this level. Since the incidence of TB here is at about that level, all animals must be tested each year. In addition, we are obliged to undertake additional testing where disease is identified. Similarly, for trading and other reasons, we also have to implement various measures to control and eradicate brucellosis. Progress in reducing TB levels has been difficult to achieve due to a variety of factors, including some deficiencies in available and approved technology and particularly because of infected wildlife. The incidence of the disease increased in 1998 and 1999 when 45,000 reactors were removed from various farms. The same trend was also evident and has persisted in Northern Ireland and Britain. However, there has been a steady decline in the number of reactors here since the late 1990s. This year, I expect that the reactor numbers will be below 26,000 or 42% fewer than in 1999. This is a most welcome development which is due to a number of factors, including the wildlife strategy adopted in recent years, better controls in cattle movements due to CMMS and dealer legislation and vigorous prosecution of offences under the Disease Of Animals Act 1966. I am hopeful this progress can be sustained but we must be mindful of the difficulties.

Brucellosis levels also increased from 1996 onwards and peaked in 1998 with 1,081 new breakdowns and 6,417 laboratory positive animals. From 1996 onwards, a range of additional measures was introduced to address the deteriorating situation. These measures included significantly extended testing, greater use of the more accurate milk ELISA test, earlier and extended depopulation and so on. Apart from this, we also have in place a good traceability system and mapping facilities for identifying contiguous holdings, which contribute to disease contamination.

As in the case of TB, the position with brucellosis has improved significantly in recent years largely as a result of the measures just mentioned. For example, the number of laboratory positive animals identified this year is approximately 20% lower than that of last year. Even more significant is that there has been a 50% reduction in the number of depopulations and of animals removed. I am cautiously optimistic that this improvement can be maintained. With the co-operation of all concerned and good husbandry practices, the goal of eradication is achievable in the foreseeable future provided all stakeholders work closely and vigilantly together.

Revised arrangements for the eradication schemes were introduced in 1996 following agreement with the farming bodies. Under the new arrangements responsibility for arranging and paying for the first clear herd test each year was devolved to farmers. In recognition of this, the disease levies were significantly reduced and an agreement was reached within the farming organisations that the levies would contribute €10 million a year or 50% of compensation costs over the 1996-99 period. For a variety of reasons, levies contributions fell short of the 50% target. The main reason was that compensation costs increased in 1998 and 1999 due to higher reactor numbers in depopulations without any increases in the levy rates.

The agreement with the farming organisations was amended following changes to the brucellosis testing regime in the late 1990s and the minimum agreed contribution from the levies was reduced to €10 million. Levy receipts accounted for 25% of compensation payments to farmers for the 2000-02 period. In view of this and in light of the recommendations of the estimates review committee the disease levies were doubled for 2003.

Sustaining Progress contained commitments that the Government would continue with measures to reduce disease levies and review levy rates from 1 January 2004 in light of efficiencies in the schemes. This review resulted in a reduction of 25% or €5 million in the disease levies for 2004. I mentioned earlier that there had been further improvements in TB-brucellosis levies this year. This has led to a reduction in the cost of the scheme. These schemes, by their nature, are expensive to operate. The operational costs are expected to be €55 million in 2004 compared with €65 million in 2003. Compensation costs have fallen from €36.7 million in 2003 to an estimated €26 million this year and should fall further in 2005.

In view of these developments, the Government decided that a further reduction in the rates of levies to their pre-1 January 2003 levy is warranted. I am pleased to share the benefits of the progress made. The proposed new rates should yield revenue of €10 million in 2005 compared with a contribution of €15 million in 2004. The success of any disease eradication programme is dependent upon a variety of factors, in particular the efficiency of the programme and the technology used. It also depends in no small part on the support and co-operation of individual farmers and the sectors at large. I hope the committee can accept the motion and allow us to proceed with the proposed reductions from 1 January 2005.

This is a positive development with the scale of levies returned to that which pertained in 2003. Fine Gael warmly welcomes that development. I extend Deputy Crawford's apologies that he is unable to attend.

We are all agreed this is a positive development and there is no point going into detail on that point. However, a number of questions arise. There has been much debate around the levels of compensation paid to farmers. That compensation is allegedly based on market value. Many farmers, particularly in south Roscommon, where there has been a litany of outbreaks of brucellosis in recent years, have raised concern that the market value is not a true reflection of what one would get for the animals on the open market. Will the Minister outline whether she has plans to review this situation which is giving rise to concern? When a herd goes down due to a reactor there are enormous implications for farmers in trying once again to build up that herd, apart altogether from what is lost in terms of market value. Perhaps the Minister will elaborate on that point.

Discussions have taken place at EU level on proposals to charge farmers for the full value of the cost of disease eradication diagnosis and for compensation. This matter was discussed recently at a meeting which the Chairman and I attended. What is the Department's view in that regard? At what stage are the discussions or has a formal proposal been put forward at the Council of Ministers? That proposal would have enormous ramifications for Ireland, especially if there was a major disease outbreak such as was experienced in the UK in terms of foot and mouth disease. Such an outbreak could have enormous financial implications for the farming community here.

On the recent badger culls — I am aware the cull in east Offaly was extremely successful — what type of culls are being undertaken? Will the Department furnish us with results in regard to culls? A number of people have raised the question of how successful the cull is. Is it as successful as people claim it is? Does the Department plan to review the type of procedures involved in culls?

I make a suggestion to the Minister. Traditionally, the main diseases here have been TB and brucellosis, and the risk of foot and mouth disease. There are many vectors for foot and mouth and other diseases to enter the country given the amount of foods we import. There was an incident recently in regard to sugar beet pulp which was being imported into Ireland. Does the Minister plan to establish within the Department, in conjunction with other Departments, a committee on biosecurity which could not alone study such issues but could make recommendations to farmers on reducing the possibility of a vector gaining entry to a herd to spread disease? Will the Minister consider that proposal?

I welcome the Minister to her first meeting of the Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food and thank her officials for attending. The programme has been in place for many years. I refer to page 2, where it says the Department has succeeded in maintaining 99.5% of the cattle free of TB. In the next paragraph it says that member states are required to carry out annual testing unless in the two preceding years less than 1% of the herds are infected. Is it the case that for the two years, Ireland was not within the 1% bracket, or was it just for the one preceding year? I am a little confused on that matter.

Has the Department any plans, particularly with regard to surveillance, concerning hazards such as Johne's disease, now becoming more significant in this country, and all the other diseases? In the UK, DEFRA, the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, has set up a good website to include a list of surveillance of all animal diseases in order to provide a comprehensive overview. Using such surveillance practices we might be able to anticipate what might go wrong and be able to intervene before something happens.

I welcome the levy reduction as a very positive trend. The trend of reduction in the incidence of TB and brucellosis is also welcome. We must nevertheless be aware of other animal diseases such as foot and mouth disease, of which we have had outbreaks, and the potential future threat of a disease such as Johne's disease.

Thank you. Does the Minister mind if we take all the questions first?

We might then have a better chance of getting out of here by seven o'clock.

The Chairman will be on his own.

I welcome the Minister and the officials. She has given us welcome news. Back in the late 1990s there was almost a sense of despair in farming circles at the high incidence of TB and brucellosis, which many people felt would never be brought fully under control. I know that they are not yet under full control and that a great threat remains, but it is important today to highlight the fact that, were it not for the programmes put in place, we would not have been able to hold the markets we had abroad and increase them. It is good to get the news that the incidence of TB and brucellosis is falling. That should be highlighted, though other speakers made valid points.

With regard to new or different types of diseases entering the country, we should perhaps recall the outbreak of foot and mouth disease and the manner in which it was handled by the Minister at that time and by the Department. We should also recall how town and country united to counter the threat. God forbid that such a threat should arise again but if it did, I am confident that our Department officials and Minister would rise to the challenge. We hope it will never happen. I compliment the Minister on the report. It is great news for farmers that the disease incidence is dropping because it was a major concern in the late 1990s.

I join my colleagues in welcoming the Minister and her staff. There has been little for me to say because the Minister has given a comprehensive outline in her speech of exactly where we are going as a country in terms of fighting disease.

Deputy Connaughton — I mean Deputy Naughten, has alluded to an issue I wish to raise.

Deputy Connaughton is on the other side of the river.

He might come back to join us.

I refer to the culling of badgers. Are there any figures available to indicate the incidence of TB in badgers? I know that the Department has done a good job in areas of high badger population and where there is a serious TB problem.

I welcome the reduction in the levies. It was essential to introduce them initially, as the Minister has explained. As an exporting country it is important that Ireland has a herd free of disease as far as is possible.

I too welcome the Minister, another Donegal person. It is good to see her in the post she is in. She has fairly big footsteps to follow but knowing the stock she comes from I am sure it will be no bother to her. I hope she will do the post proud.

I also welcome today's announcements on the levies, but I will touch on levies from a different perspective. I spoke to the Minister formerly about seed potatoes.

We cannot discuss potatoes.

We are discussing everything else. I will have a word with the Minister when she is finished.

If the Deputy was feeding potatoes to the cattle he might get around the matter that way.

I join with colleagues in thanking the Minister for her presentation and thanking her officials for being here. Listening to the Minister, I recalled seeing my family with a beef herd for 40 years, with testing annually over that period, and experiencing a sense of frustration each year when the team of vets would arrive. We would ask ourselves why we were going through this, because none of the animals ever had TB or brucellosis. According to the Minister, the national herd is now 99.5% free of TB and 99.9% free of brucellosis, so the end game is in sight. What is the Department's vision for that? What the Minister said today greatly honours the commitment made by her predecessor steadfastly to reduce the disease eradication levies. The Minister is doing so and is to be complimented on that, but how close are we to the end game?

I support Deputy Carty in his reference to the wildlife population. Blame has been attached to the badgers. I felt somehow in the wrong because I feel a certain grá for the poor old badger. Has the Department a view on the current incidence of TB in the wildlife population, in deer and badgers? I know that the Department has been culling badgers in certain areas but what is the state of play? Can we send out some sort of positive message to farmers that while we are reducing the levies, the end game is in sight and there will, one hopes, be a time when there will be no further routine testing?

I would like to be associated with the other committee members in welcoming the reductions of 33% in both levies. The reduction in TB and brucellosis incidence is also welcome. It is perhaps not fair to put these questions to the Minister but her officials might deal with them. Do the officials think that the regulations put in place during the outbreak of foot and mouth disease helped greatly in reducing the incidence of TB? The movement restrictions put on cattle were an enormous help. Many dealers were not happy with the restrictions but they greatly improved the situation.

The initiative as regards the independent valuing of cattle affected by brucellosis has been very successful. Down through the years it appeared that the same money was being paid for a good animal as a bad one. That has changed enormously and has to be welcomed. Perhaps the Minister will reply to those few queries.

"Independent" of course would be a broad definition.

I would first like to thank the committee. It is not presumptuous to say people support the reduction in disease levies. Perhaps I will deal with a couple of issues that have been raised together.

The issue of compensation may be looked at in a couple of ways. Compensating in line with the market value was changed in 2001 and that has augured well. Matters have improved considerably because there were real concerns heretofore that the market value was not being reflected in the compensation. One may look at it another way in that it is terrible that a farmer should lose any of his or her animals, especially to disease. I appreciate very much that there is a kinship, almost, between the farmer and his or her animals. Older farmers particularly find it difficult to deal with the situation when an animal goes down with a particular disease. They see their life's work disappearing on them and this has to be appreciated. It is impossible to compensate anybody in that predicament, regardless of the disease. In reply to Deputy Naughten, there is always the situation where not everybody will be happy. Everybody has his or her own issue or idea. However, a procedure exists for arbitration if people are unhappy with the compensation being provided. In some instances people will give out, but it has not been a major issue as yet, in the main. Perhaps there are some tough people in south Roscommon, but I know any of the small farmers from my constituency would not be getting a charity cheque when selling a few weanlings in that area.

We have good cattle.

Many of them come from our part of the world as well. It is something that will have to be considered on an ongoing basis. If particular issues are raised on an individual level, we can always look at them.

In response to Deputy Upton on the issue of complete eradication and the differential in the speech, one reflects on the cattle and the other refers to the herd. It relates to 1% of the herd capacity in the previous year as opposed to the cattle. Much good work has been done as regards the eradication of the disease. A couple of other factors remain and it is a matter of team work between the farmer, the Department and the veterinary people as well. The other issue which has been spoken of since the time I was on the other side of the House is that of the badger. I have seen the work done in Offaly, as mentioned by Deputy Naughten, and that done in Donegal. It has been very good and vindicated what the Department and the farmer had always presumed. The work at present being done by the Department is being peer reviewed and the outcome of that research will be published shortly. That will be of benefit to all of us.

Will it be circulated to the committee?

That is not a problem. The officials have advised me that we are talking about 20% of the badger population. Another wildlife population that is equally responsible for carrying the disease is deer. The Chairman's suggestion that the manner in which foot and mouth disease was addressed should be replicated in some of the other disease eradication programmes is strongly supported by my officials here. However, I do not believe we are at that stage, as yet, and as we all know it was a fairly serious way of dealing with the issue. We are not just looking at the cull, its implications and what has transpired. From a veterinary viewpoint, a vaccination is currently being developed which I hope may be of great benefit in addressing that issue within the wildlife population. We hope to be able to eradicate the disease completely, if that is humanly possible. We will certainly try to do that.

I know that Deputy Upton has a particular interest in Johne's disease and she knows the Department is currently reviewing this in committee. We will continue to be actively aware in this regard. The reasoning behind it is something Deputy Naughten has spoken about as well, namely, the openness of the market and the opportunity for moving animals around. There are disease risks, as a consequence, similar to the risk of human beings travelling all over the world with the likelihood of returning home with some infection or other. There are exposures, as a consequence. The implications of those exposures are constantly being reviewed within the European Community and by ourselves. We are considered over-prescriptive on some occasions as regards zero tolerance. However, I do not want a situation whereby something is introduced, inadvertently or otherwise, which might have a detrimental effect on the national herd and, more particularly, on consumers. The task is to get the correct balance and in this regard there are issues outstanding which we could perhaps discuss on another day.

The European Community is discussing the issue of charging farmers the full price. It is only at discussion level at present. We have serious reservations about that. It would mean enormous financial implications for our farming community and I do not believe we would ultimately arrive at the endgame in terms of the eradication of the disease. We will attempt to fine-tune this initiative in the interim, as it passes within the Community. I hope I have addressed the issues that were raised.

We can discuss the other issue which was not allowed, perhaps in the new year. Of all the people who are acutely aware of that industry, perhaps if I was not there, it might not have been as well taken care of as it was. I know people are not that happy, but as the Chairman knows, it is an industry for which the support is weak, apart from three counties, Louth, Meath and Donegal. We can discuss this. I will facilitate a discussion on it in the new year with Department officials.

I appreciate that.

Will the Minister comment on the question as regards charges and discussions taking place at EU level?

I have answered that. It is at a preliminary level and we would have serious reservations, if that was to happen.

There are no more supplementary questions. That concludes the committee's consideration of the bovine diseases (levies) regulations 2004.

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