Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024

Coillte CGA: Chairperson Designate

An Cathaoirleach

Before we begin, I draw witnesses' attention that witnesses giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. This means that a witness has a full defence against any defamation action for anything said at a committee meeting. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and may be directed to cease giving evidence on an issue at the Chair's direction. Witnesses should follow the direction of the Chair in this regard and are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, as is reasonable, no adverse commentary should be made against an identifiable third person or entity. Witnesses who are to give evidence from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts and may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. Privilege against defamation does not apply to publication by witnesses outside the proceedings held by the committee of any matters arising from the proceedings.

The purpose of the second session of today's meeting is to have an engagement with the chairperson designate of Coillte CGA, Ms Vivienne Jupp. She is very welcome to this evening's meeting. I will allow Ms Jupp five minutes to read her opening statement and then we will proceed to a question and answer session.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Good evening, Chair, Deputies and Senators. I am pleased to appear before the committee in my role as chair designate of Coillte. As I am sure members will appreciate, since my appointment as chair designate, I have not had much time to acquaint myself fully with the business and operations of Coillte. That said, I will deal with members' questions as well as I can. Important for me at this stage would be to hear the views of the members of the committee on the key stakeholders with an interest in our work.

When I was assessing this position, I was conscious of the critical role Coillte has to play in Ireland achieving its climate action targets. With each year that passes, just how challenging these targets are is becoming increasingly apparent, with the urgent need to make more progress. In this regard, I was very impressed by the journey which Coillte has been on in recent years. I am also impressed by Coillte’s strategic vision for its future forest estate. It is clear to me that Coillte plays an important role in balancing and delivering the multiple benefits of forestry, not just in the commercial sphere but also in relation to climate, biodiversity and recreation. I look forward to working with the board and management and, indeed, all of our key stakeholders, to ensure that Coillte continues to deliver for our shareholders and for society as a whole. Before elaborating further on this, I wish to provide members with brief details of my background.

I was a senior executive with Accenture, a global management consultancy firm, for a considerable period. In addition to this experience, I gained extensive experience of the State sector when I was chair of CIÉ. I am currently a member of the board of Fáilte Ireland and chair of Premier Lotteries Ireland. I believe that the commercial semi-State sector performs a very important role in our economy and society. I believe that my experience will help me to lead the board of Coillte and ensure we continue to deliver on our commercial mandate, and on national climate and biodiversity policy.

As I am sure members are all aware, Coillte was established in 1989 as a commercial semi-State company. It has been on a journey of change and transition to become a profitable, innovative and climate-focused State-owned commercial company. Coillte’s purpose is to manage the State forests on behalf of the people of Ireland. It is responsible for 440,000 ha of forested lands. Coillte is Ireland's largest producer and supplier of certified wood to the domestic wood-processing sector. It contributes to the construction of low carbon houses by producing circa 3 million cu. m of sustainably grown, certified Irish roundwood annually.

As one of the largest landowners in the country, Coillte has a deep-rooted relationship with the communities in which it is embedded. The company has been to the forefront in developing onshore wind farms in Ireland, in the delivery of outdoor recreation spaces, and through its Medite Smartply business, providing sustainable building products to the construction industry.

It is very important, in my view, that Coillte is commercially successful and financially well underpinned. I am very encouraged by its current strong financial position. This strong position facilitates its rolling annual capital investment and reforestation programmes, enables its ongoing delivery of a wide range of social dividends, and further strengthens its financial position, thereby supporting the delivery of its new forestry strategic vision. It also pays a dividend to the State.

Coillte's focus is all about delivering on this forestry strategic vision. Announced in April 2022, the vision set ambitious targets on climate, biodiversity and recreation, while continuing to deliver for the forest and wood products industry. Importantly, it aims to sustainably balance and deliver the multiple benefits of Ireland's State forests across four strategic pillars, which are climate, nature, wood and people.

I will address the actions that Coillte proposes to deliver as part of this forestry strategic vision. On climate, while recognising the challenges of availability of land and capital, Coillte is targeting the enablement of the creation of 100,000 ha of new forests by 2050, half of which would be native woodlands. Coillte also has an ambition to redesign 30,000 ha of peatland forests for climate and ecological benefits by 2050. In addition, Coillte is continuing to drive the development of wind energy on its estate through its joint venture with FuturEnergy Ireland. On nature, Coillte is targeting the enhancement and restoration of biodiversity by increasing the area of the estate managed primarily for nature from 20% to 30% by 2025.

Coillte is targeting the production of 25 million cu. m of certified Irish timber up to 2030 to support the construction of 300,000 new homes in that period. Coillte also has an ambition to promote the use and benefits of wood products, to increase the level of timber homes in Ireland from 20% to 80% by 2050. It is 80% in Scotland. Against this backdrop, Coillte is participating in the new interdepartmental and industry steering group on timber in construction, which aims to identify opportunities to increase the amount of wood used in construction.

Coillte has an ambition to enable the investment of €100 million to create world class visitor destinations to support growth in tourism and recreation by 2030. In July 2022, Beyond the Trees Avondale was launched, including the magnificent treetop walk and viewing tower, and in July 2023 the newly refurbished Avondale House reopened. This world-class, age-friendly visitor attraction uses Irish timber throughout and represents an outstanding example of what Irish timber can achieve. Coillte is also targeting the doubling of the number of recreation areas to 500 to benefit local communities and people's health and well-being.

Following the launch of its strategic vision in April 2022, Coillte consulted widely to hear the views of key stakeholders and the general public. Last December, following completion of its public consultation and a strategic environmental assessment, Coillte published a more detailed Forest Estate Strategic Land Use Plan 2023-2050. This plan sets out a range of objectives which will help the organisation to deliver on its strategic ambitions. Coillte's approach aims to sustainably balance and deliver the objectives of climate, nature, wood and people, while ensuring that the organisation remains financially sustainable so that it can continue to invest in providing a broad range of services to society.

With the committee's support, I look forward to my time as chair of Coillte. I am confident that we will succeed in delivering on our strategic initiatives as a business. I look forward to hearing members' feedback and any questions that they might have.

Senator Paul Daly

I welcome Ms Jupp and congratulate her on her appointment. I wish her the best of luck going forward. On the basis of her opening statement, climate seems to be the buzzword, with the role Coillte has in driving our climate targets and ambitions. With that in mind, the entire forestry sector has been sold as the silver bullet for us to reach many of our targets. It is way off the mark. We have had many hearings and meetings here. I would like to hear from Ms Jupp how she thinks Coillte can help us to reach the target, which is 8,000 ha. I know Coillte has approximately 7% of the national land bank, so it is probably restricted in that it can only sow what it owns. How can Coillte play a role in the overall forestry sector to try to get things back on track and help us to achieve our national targets?

On that, at some of the most recent meetings we had involving Coillte, we heard about a very good Coillte scheme called the farm partnership scheme or the premium partners scheme, whereby Coillte manages plantations on privately owned land. We heard from people in those partnerships but all we heard about was arbitration and litigation. We heard stories about how poorly the whole system is being operated and managed. From the individuals' perspective, the issues were all on Coillte's side of the arrangement. I presume the witnesses are aware of these issues. Has Ms Jupp a plan to overcome existing problems in the premium partners or farm partnership scheme? If the existing problems can be overcome, what role is there for a scheme in which Coillte can get its shoulder to the wheel and get private planters and private landowners back growing trees, thereby restoring confidence in the whole sector? That is a short question but I would like a comprehensive, long answer.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I shall answer the question on the farm partnerships because that is the longer question. Coillte has historical agreements with individual farmers. It has a portfolio of over 600 farm partnerships across the country and these are generally of a very long-term nature, as the Deputy can imagine – probably 40 years. In return for planting the trees and managing the forest, we get part ownership of the trees grown on the land. The vast majority of the partnerships are working well. I am aware that in a small number of cases, farm partners have raised issues, such as engagement with Coillte and the transparency of information. In recent years, Coillte has worked really hard to make improvements where a small number of farm partners have questioned how things are being done. Coillte has put a dedicated team in place to manage the farm partnership portfolio, and the team continues to work to address all concerns and issues raised through active engagement with individual farm partners.

I understand that there is a very small number of people who are dissatisfied with the whole process. I assure the Senator that Coillte is more than happy to engage directly with farm partners to discuss their concerns and work with them to reach a mutually acceptable solution or resolution. We are putting in place dedicated people to respond to queries and we are trying to engage more with and be more transparent with the individual farm partners. However, the vast majority of the partnerships are working exceedingly well and people are happy with the process.

Senator Paul Daly

That is a live scheme. Is there much of an uptake?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

We have not had that scheme for quite a number of years. It is a very historic scheme.

Senator Paul Daly

To drive on forestry, is there any future in reviving it?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I am not sure there is. I have not heard any ideas or discussions on revitalising it. It finished for new applicants around 2010.

Senator Paul Daly

For new applicants, but it is ongoing for those in the scheme.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

It is ongoing because it involves a 40-year programme, as the Senator well understands.

Senator Paul Daly

On my first question, on how Coillte can help to drive us towards meeting our targets, does Ms Jupp, as the incoming chairperson, see any merit in reintroducing the scheme or a similar one?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I am afraid I would need further information from Coillte to answer that. I will ask it to reassess it. Our plan for forestry is to increase the percentage of land used for forestry from about 11% to 18%, which is the target for 2050. In meeting that target, Coillte hopes to do 100,000 ha, which will mean it will have to acquire new land. This involves a very expensive process and there are many competing factors. That is the target we have set ourselves. As the Senator may be aware, we have set up a strategic forestry investment arm. Through the Irish Strategic Investment Fund, which is part of the NTMA, as the Senator well knows, one can avail of premiums and grants to plant trees. That helps us with the capital investment required to buy land and plant trees. It is a very expensive business.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I wish Ms Jupp the best of luck in her new role. I hope it goes well for her. What are the responsibilities of the chairperson of Coillte? I ask because I am not overly familiar with them.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

The role of the chairperson of Coillte or any organisation is to support and challenge the management team in place, review and provide input into the strategic plan the organisation develops and ensure the organisation takes account of all the stakeholders involved in the whole process. It is also about ensuring the right governance is in place, the risks are well managed and mitigating actions are taken to ensure this. That is a very summarised account of what a chairperson does.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

Would Ms Jupp, as someone starting out in her role, be willing to share her view, if she can, on where forestry is at today in Ireland generally?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Generally, the amount of land we have in forestry is much more limited than that of other countries throughout Europe. Ireland is a small country and the other small countries rank low with regard to the amount of forested land. The climate issue has brought a focus on the need for investment in forests and for more forests. Coillte hopes to enable some of this through itself and other players in the field. For our country, forestry has multiple advantages, not only concerning the climate but also biodiversity and wood. Wood is very important, particularly if we want more timber-framed houses in the future. Also, people use the forests. They are wonderful facilities for hiking and walking and we even have some mountain bike parks within them.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

Ms Jupp said she wants to hear the views of the committee members on forestry and the new forestry programme. The committee has done a lot of work and, despite its cross-party membership, it is very much concerned as a unit about the forestry programme as it stands. I am just back from attending a briefing by Forest Industries Ireland, at which Coillte was represented.

At every meeting I held with people from every part of the forestry sector, alarm bells were raised about the programme and the number of restrictions and conditions within it when it comes to people planting. Ms Jupp will also know there are significant issues with the uptake of the forestry programme and the willingness to plant land when it comes to farmers. There have been issues outstanding in respect of, for example, ash dieback. The challenge is huge. We are not meeting our targets. It is important to say the committee is very concerned about the limitations and restrictions on the new forestry programme. I certainly believe elements of it are totally unworkable, which is very disappointing. Sometimes, money is an issue and the money is not there but, in this case, the money is there and the premiums are quite good. However, in my engagement to date, including with Coillte representatives, there are significant difficulties with the programme. That will be a major challenge in meeting our targets.

I will raise a matter referenced in the opening statement. The recreation piece is very important. I had a meeting with people from Coillte last year in Portumna Forest Park, which is a wonderful amenity. Such amenities are very important in showing people and allowing them in to see forestry. It is also a very important space for recreation. I am glad to see plans to expand that, which is very important. People should have the option of going to these forests for a walk or whatever else. That is very important and I welcome it. It is also important, however, for the committee to put across the real challenges there are around meeting our targets and now meeting those targets under a forestry programme that I believe is unworkable, which is very concerning for the future of forestry, plantation and meeting our targets.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I am unaware of the meeting the Deputy mentioned that took place today. I had no idea about that meeting. Obviously, to plant trees, Coillte needs a licence. It also has to consider the Environmental Protection Agency, which ensures we are doing all the right things. We can be relatively confident we are complying with the regulations and doing what we are supposed to do.

I can see why people are concerned about whether sufficient wood will be available. When we cut down wood, we generally plant three trees for each one that has been harvested. As those trees grow, they are great eaters of carbon dioxide. The more land there is and the more trees we can plant, the more it will help with that. Our broad climate targets, as I said, are very challenging. We will do our part in trying to ensure we can deliver as much as we possibly can that will help with those targets. I do not think we can do it all on our own. Many people will have to contribute to this climate agenda.

The Deputy mentioned the capacity of people working in forestry. That is very disappointing. It is a terrific occupation. I have only met one forester so far but I am very impressed by the technical, scientific and commitment aspects of the forester, and what he is trying to do when he looks at the various land banks we have to ensure we do the right things for a particular piece of land. We need to do a lot more to attract people into forestry. We also need to do a lot more to attract women into forestry. I have been very focused on that, as the Deputy can imagine. For people interested in the outdoors, it is mainly an outdoor occupation in beautiful parts of the country. I will be asking colleagues to take a look at what we can do to ensure people understand the advantages of a role in forestry, and to encourage more women and men into learning forestry at universities and colleges. We might have to do some programmes with local schools near forests, for example, to make them aware of the kinds of roles there are in forestry. It is on my agenda to take a look at that, especially when we are trying to add much more land. We will need a lot more foresters to be able to do that.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I thank Ms Jupp. The best of luck to her.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

I wish Ms Jupp all the best. She has a daunting task. There is a lot of difficulty in forestry at present. Coillte has 4,450 sq. km of land, which is probably 50% of the land in the country. It is a serious investment for our country and for the benefit of our country.

The most important issue at the moment is housing, as Ms Jupp is aware. We will require an awful lot of timber to build all these houses. When she said she had a target of 25 million cu. m, how much extra is that in forestry terms in reality? How many kilometres of land is it? How much extra will Coillte need in that regard?

Biodiversity will also be required. Ms Jupp stated Coillte will increase the area of its estate used for that from 20% to 30% by 2025. How much land will that take in?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Sorry, I-----

Deputy Johnny Mythen

How much land will be involved in increasing the area of Coillte's land used for biodiversity from 20% to 30% by 2025, which is a very short period?

Has Coillte been approached by wind farm companies to take up particular forestry areas? What is its position on that?

We have talked to some farmers. They are very concerned about the 20-year rule, if they want to change back but cannot. What is Coillte's position on that?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Twenty years-----

Deputy Johnny Mythen

When a farmer dedicates his farm to forestry, he is designated as a forester. However, young farmers who are about take over or inherit land might not want to take over the forestry end of it. What is Coillte's position on that?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

We definitely need timber for housing. From the 400,000 ha we have, we produce a volume of timber; I just cannot recall the number. We hope to increase that land by a quarter. That will give us a quarter extra in timber. I am not sure whether that will produce the number of houses we are targeting, but it is to be hoped the analysis has been done to assess whether that is a valid number.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

On that, it is a very worrying factor that 8,000 ha were promised this year for forestry but only approximately 1,500 ha-----

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Sorry, I cannot get those figures in my head at the moment. Will the Deputy give them to me again? I will write them down.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Some 8,000 ha of forestry were to be planted this year, but it is reckoned there will only be 1,500 ha. How-----

Ms Vivienne Jupp

What was targeted was 8,000 ha but only 1,500 ha will be done. I will have to take that one away. I am unaware of that at the moment.

Our plan for biodiversity is to put some more land into biodiversity areas and plant some native trees there, which take much longer to grow. It may not necessarily be the kind of wood the construction industry wants. It generally wants soft wood.

Nobody has approached me about wind farms at all. I am aware that Coillte has a relationship or joint venture, FuturEnergy, with the ESB. Not many of the planned wind farms they wish to have have gone through the planning process. They will take some time to get through that process, get constructed and put in place. In the longer term, the goal is to provide 1 GW of energy from wind.

My understanding is that the one we planned takes about 40 years before it is ready to be harvested so it is a long-term commitment for people who want to get into it but there are good returns. It is a commodity product so prices do vary over time. We have had some good times in the past but because it is a commodity product, one does not know how that would be but we can manage the cutting and harvesting of the trees to when things are good.

An Cathaoirleach

Regarding the Coillte partnerships, I have had a good number of meetings with Coillte and various partners. Regarding what Ms Jupp said, lack of communication and transparency constitute the big issue with those partnerships. There a few that have grievances. I have had a lot of interaction with Coillte about them and received full co-operation from the staff. They were definitely interested in finding resolutions to the issue so, hopefully, they can get resolved without having to resort to arbitration because that is a very costly process.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Absolutely.

An Cathaoirleach

I would like a bit of give and take and efforts to sort out those issues. I have dealt with Coillte on a number of issues such as right of way or land swaps. I find the staff to be very co-operative and willing to help. There was a very large project in the north of my county where a significant volume of timber was landlocked and we got an agreement to get access to it. The process of putting a bridge across a river is beginning. There is a significant volume of timber that it will be possible to clear fell.

One thing I cannot get my head around, and this is more of a statement than a question, is the fact that Coillte is talking about having 30% primarily for nature by 2025 and 50% in the long term. If we put so much non-commercial timber into the system, how are we going to have enough timber for houses in the future? I would be very concerned that there is not enough timber of the commercial variety. I know some people have a focus on biodiversity, etc., but the full balance sheet is not being used and the saving in emissions in using timber instead of concrete is not being put into calculations. It is all about biodiversity and there is not enough about what that timber will be used for in 30 or 35 years. I am concerned about those targets - taking 50% of our timber out of commercial and using it for biodiversity. I would be very worried about that.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

It is a challenge. One of the things where it is looking to change the use of the land involves some of the peatlands. One of the areas they are targeting for biodiversity involves some of the peatlands. These areas were planted with trees donkeys years ago, which we now know was not the right thing to do with some of those peatlands, so we are looking at all of those. This is one way in which we are doing it but-----

An Cathaoirleach

A total of 50% seems like an awfully high target.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I agree that it does seem like a high target. We have to have wood and the Cathaoirleach is dead right. The production of concrete and steel is very poor for the environment whereas trees eat CO2 and store it and they can be used in construction. We may need some changes to enable more houses to be constructed in that manner. We will do a lot more through this steering committee we are part of looking at timber in construction. We will look to see whether we can liaise with architects and builders to build up their knowledge of the opportunities in this space. That would be very helpful.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I welcome Ms Jupp. Deputy Kerrane and I attended a meeting in Rooskey regarding forestry. There are outages in that area coming from trees falling. We are not playing with the trees. The problem is that there is no proper setback distance from ESB wires. As incoming chair, will Ms Jupp get involved and give an undertaking because families with children and elderly people were left without electricity for a week at one stage? Could Coillte lay down on its policy document that it is set back 30 m either side of wires so we do not have this because a tree will grow to 75 ft or 80 ft? Obviously a spruce tree does not have the roots of some of the other trees that would be grown. This has to be done on the private and public side. You cannot have the ESB constantly having to fix wires because of that. This is one thing I would ask Ms Jupp to take up in her role.

The second issue is pressure on land. Coillte are using investment funds when it comes to buying up land. It is behind the door. The investment fund is buying it, it will come into its ownership after while and farmers are in middle. We have a problem in different parts of the country where landlord Ireland is nearly coming back. Coillte needs to work with farmers and communities and not bulldoze on top of small farmers.

In fairness to Coillte, I would have dealt with the local people with regard to walking trails through the woods and they have been excellent. If there is a problem, Paul Ruane, Declan Garvey and all those guys in that area work with the community. Funnily enough, there seems to be a deafness higher up in Coillte when it comes to making sure that policy and working with people is sorted.

Many years ago, we brought Coillte before us regarding the farm partnerships. It has been a problem. A lot of promises have been made in here over the years about sorting this out. Between mediation, legal letters and everything else, a lot of people are still not sorted. Whatever has to be done to cut to the chase and make sure this is resolved needs to be done.

Coillte came before us and told us a lovely story about how it was committing to "X" amount where it had pine up on peatlands. Ms Jupp spoke about it earlier. The reality is that the first application in Connemara has been turned down by Galway County Council because it is a special area of conservation. There are 250 ha or 300 ha on which trees are growing but they are now being refused permission to even cut them even though it is a peaty area. This is because of the habitats directive. How does Coillte reckon it will get to this figure bearing in mind that it is saying that it will increase output or planting and will decrease the areas if it gets the go-ahead? How does Coillte square that circle?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Regarding trees falling on electric wires, I will raise that issue when I go into-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

Particularly that area where Deputy Kerrane and me attended that meeting first of all, which covers Rooskey and Kilglass, and then countrywide - it nearly covers the area down to Strokestown.

It covers the whole area and there is a big problem there, but this will fester in other places as well. It is not only Coillte; there is private forestry as well. This will have to be a policy the Department will have to bring in. I thank Ms Jupp for saying she will get looking at it.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I will raise that when I get in to talk to the Department and the board. There is pressure on land because the goal is to increase forestry quite dramatically. Coillte cannot do that on its own. There have to be other avenues that will increase tree planting, whether we want it for wood for construction, climate and biodiversity or recreation. All those will have to be balanced. We will need land and we will have to buy it in a responsible way. The price of land is going up, so the cost of doing all that is extensive, not to mention getting and planting the trees.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

There is a grant for that.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

No, not for Coillte directly. There is some talk about some changes-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

There is an establishment grant regardless. The premium per year is what is up for debate, and my understanding is Coillte is going to get it. Am I correct in thinking that?

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I understand a debate is going on at the moment and-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

On the establishment, however, Coillte has always got it.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

Okay. That is fine. I had not heard of that. I will-----

An Cathaoirleach

In fairness, Ms Jupp is new to her position as chair.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I am just making Ms Jupp aware of it.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

That is absolutely fine. I will educate myself on that. I am glad the Deputy has heard the forest walks are excellent. I use them myself and I think there is-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

The guys who work in Coillte and with whom we have liaised are very helpful. I must compliment those in the west.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I am glad to hear that.

I have covered the issue of farm partnerships but I will reiterate it for the Deputy because he was not here. We have had a series of historical arrangements with farmers where we plant the land and, in return-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

Yes, I know that.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

There are more than 600 cases of this. A very small minority, by which I mean a tiny percentage, are unhappy with what is going on. We will have to sort that out and I hope it will be sorted out as amicably as possible. I do not want it to go to arbitration, which is a very expensive process. Rather, we will seek to encourage the people. It is only a handful of people who are concerned about it. If we could get agreement to go to mediation, that would be really advantageous. Coillte has made me aware of this problem and over the years it has put in place much better arrangements for engagement. We now have a dedicated unit that will answer any questions people have. It will be prepared to meet the farmers and talk them through it. They all have a dedicated person whom they can call. I hope that will improve and that we can resolve what they are disputing with us as quickly as possible.

I read about the Derryclare issue recently. It is a big disappointment to us and we will have to take a look at what we can do with it. As I understand it, the foresters did a great deal of analysis of the land and, based on science and the nature of the land that was covered, produced a plan to identify what they could do with the various pieces, which was not the same for the entire Derryclare area. It varied depending on the nature of the land and what we could do. It is disappointing to us. We are going to have to take a good look at it and see whether we can engage with the county councils. This is potentially something that will arise with other county councils because they are the ones who take a look at these planning applications, and we need to get the proper authority to move forward with it. They felt it was a very good plan in that there is some forest there and they will be removing it because it is on peatland, and they will have a variety of ways in which they could use the land more effectively.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

There is one issue I forgot to mention, regarding the flow of water. Where land is planted, there might be a drain or a river running through it that takes water from the land beside it, but those drains have not been maintained by Coillte over the years. That means there is a backlog because, obviously, where trees are growing, there will be scrub and weeds and grass will be growing. In some cases, there are rivers. If the planting is not done some distance from it, a digger cannot go up along and clean it. I ask Ms Jupp to make sure, while she is the chair, that she will bring that to their attention and that there will be a policy on that such that there will be a working relationship between the farming community and Coillte and we will not be left with a battle going on over a drain or a river that has not been cleaned for years, with farmers not knowing whom to go to, which would be a problem.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I agree. We should have a collaborative arrangement with farmers, the local communities and any of the stakeholders around our land. In particular, when we came up with the new forestry strategy, we engaged with a lot of people and the general public when we were doing that.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I appreciate Coillte having done that. I thank Ms Jupp for her time and wish her the best of luck.

Ms Vivienne Jupp

I thank the Deputy.

An Cathaoirleach

There is now a voting block in the Dáil, so it is appropriate we have reached the end of our questions. I thank Ms Jupp for attending and, on behalf of the committee, I wish her well in her role. Coillte has an important part to play in reaching our emissions targets and so on, as well as in providing timber for our timber industry. Deputy Fitzmaurice complimented the Coillte staff and I have to concur, as I said earlier. I have a very good relationship with the local Coillte staff and I find that even the higher executive always responds and is helpful in trying to get problems sorted out and to get solutions to them.

The next public meeting of the committee will be engagement with officials from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine on further scrutiny of the COM (2023) 770, the proposal on the protection of animals during transport.

The joint committee adjourned at 7.38 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 24 April 2024.