Vol. 1 No. 11
I welcome the delegation from the ESB Community Games. They have been waiting patiently for a meeting with the committee and we have had various attempts to hold it. I regret the delay, but it is good to have them before the committee today.
I remind the delegation that while members are covered by privilege, those coming before the committee do not share the same protection of privilege.
I thank the committee for inviting us here. I became the chairman of the Community Games last January, but I have been involved in the games down through the years. Many of the members will know the ethos of the Community Games. It is an independent voluntary organisation and we operate throughout all local communities in Ireland. I am referring to the 32 counties, even though we might not be as strong within the six counties of Northern Ireland as we are in the other 26. We reach into every parish and local area. We aim to provide opportunities for children and young people to develop in a healthy and safe environment through experiencing a wide range of sporting and cultural activities. We have a range of 32 sporting and cultural activities, including art, athletics, swimming, gymnastics, variety, choir and culture.
It is not in our ethos to provide just for the talented child. If one is not good at a sport, one can turn one's talents to art, variety, model making, etc. There is something there for everybody, if they wish to participate. Our aim is 70% participation, 30% competition. Children who go through to the national finals in an individual sport such as athletics, swimming or gymnastics can be knocked out on the Saturday. They do not have to compete for the rest of the weekend and sometimes they might have a better weekend than those preparing for finals the next day. They tend to enjoy the company of other people from all over Ireland.
We are unique in the sense that we cater for so many sports under the one umbrella. We have over 800 affiliated areas. An area can comprise a parish or any area that does not exceed a population of 6,000 people. We have 20,000 people who give their time voluntarily. It has been going on for the past 33 years when Mr. Joe Connolly started it all off in Walkinstown in Dublin. Mr. Connolly is still there as our honorary life patron. Little did he think that 33 years later we would have achieved our current level.
Times and things are changing and we have to move with them. We have to move with the demands of the Sports Council and other sporting bodies. We launched our strategy plan in November in conjunction with the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern. The plan sets out goals for us to achieve and provide better opportunities for children and young people. We have to provide more training for our volunteers. We have to move forward. We cannot sit back on the ideals we were set up with 30 years. Children's attitudes to sport and social life are changing. We have to move with the times if we wish to keep those children and people on board in our organisation.
We are concerned with the falling number of young people engaged in physical activity. Many are not competing anymore and are prepared to sit in front of the television, GameBoy or DVDs rather than come out to compete. We can take the example of primary school children not walking or cycling to school anymore, but being collected. Some of it may be for safety reasons, but there are children who could be walking or cycling to school. When they come home from school and after their homework is done, they are prepared just to sit in front of the television or a DVD. We hope with our new strategy plan that we will reach those children and get them back to participating and competing in sports.
A parent recently said to me that his child competed last year and went on to the finals in Mosney. This year in his local area, when the competition was on, he noted there were few children in the race. He put it down to the fact that his child was so good by getting through to Mosney that other children were afraid to compete against her because they were not going to win. He is possibly right that this child was so good and would win the race again that no one else was prepared to challenge her. That should not be what sport is about; sport should be about participating.
We have to get the fun element back into sport. I feel this element has gone out of sport. It has to be brought back in so that children can enjoy themselves. I go back to our motto that winning is not what it is all about, it is taking part. Hopefully, we can look forward to people taking part for the fun of it. Perhaps it is the way society has moved or perhaps it is television with high contracts and big money that all these sports stars seem to be getting. Certain children want to reach that, but they do not want to go through the basics to get there. As we all know, one has to walk before one can run and one has to take part and learn that. Never mind learning to win, one has to learn to lose. As I said, the people who lose in Mosney sometimes come out the winners because they enjoy themselves better than those all tensed up waiting for a final the next day.
It is great also to come back with an all-Ireland medal. I am involved in athletics too and I know that to get a medal from Mosney in athletics is harder than to get a medal from the Irish championships in Tullamore, Santry or elsewhere. I have seen children who have won all-Ireland titles in athletics literally finishing nowhere in Mosney. Some of the people who participate in Mosney and go on to win medals might never get involved with their local club and just come out for the Community Games. They have the talent, but they are not prepared to nurture or develop it. They just compete in the Community Games once a year and that is it. I have seen people who have represented Ulster squads in swimming not even getting a medal in Mosney.
We are perhaps reaching down and bringing out this talent. We would say to such people that they have the talent and we would nurture them as they enter sports through the Community Games and urge them to join their local athletics or soccer or Gaelic games club. We try to give them a start in sporting life. We have started a lot of people on the road. Niall Quinn came through Community Games in the long puc - not in soccer. I think he was playing hurling around Dublin at that time. Denis Irwin came through Community Games while Sonia O'Sullivan also competed. One then goes onto the stars of pop and Westlife. Even Colin Farrell has competed for Dublin in Community Games.
More recently, a person who perhaps has not got the recognition she should - maybe I am blowing a trumpet here for Donegal - is Sinéad Jennings, who went on to win gold at the World Rowing Championships in Rome a couple of years ago. She made a very good speech at Community Games. She came up to the swimming event and was beaten in the heat, but made a promise when she saw the medal winner. She said: "I will be back for a medal." She came back two years later in the cycling event and won three gold medals in three years, retaining her title twice. That is a story of somebody who, beaten first time round, has now gone to the top of the world in her sporting event.
We are always trying out new and different things. This year, for example, we started a promotion with the IRFU, promoting tag rugby, a new initiative being put forward by the IRFU. Tag rugby is a non-contact sport. The joint promotion has been an outstanding success. We have introduced large numbers of children into Community Games through tag rugby. I know that Munster is a stronger rugby participating area than anywhere else, but it had its own heats and finals to get a number of children and teams participating in tag rugby. While tag rugby is competitive, it is also fun as boys and girls can play on the one team. It is not a contact sport and there are no tackles. A belt is worn around the waist with tags hanging from it and when a tag is taken, the ball must be passed to somebody else. Tries can be scored too, but it is a non-contact sport and it all comes back to participation, getting children to participate. We will always take ideas like that on board if they can benefit the children.
Mr. Davenport has outlined the general direction in which the Community Games is now moving. I am sure the committee members are familiar with the operation of Community Games in their own areas. I will deal with some specific issues where the committee members as legislators may be able to assist those of us working within the sector.
Since the early 1979s, the traditional national home of the Community Games for the finals has been Mosney. That has been the case for over 30 years. It is quite probable that, as and from the end of 2004, the Mosney facility will not be available to us. We are in the process of identifying alternatives and we are likely to make an announcement this summer in terms of the venue as and from 2005 for the national finals of the Community Games. That obviously will result in a major challenge for the organisation in terms of making the shift from somewhere we have been used to, to somewhere totally different. We would hope for the support of all the agencies in facilitating that. In much the same way as the spirit of support was made available to the Special Olympics, we hope that spirit would continue so that when we make the move, the State agencies would help in terms of facilitating it.
The question of insurance is of major concern. I am conscious that with regard to insurance, the focus is frequently on the impact on business and jobs. From our perspective as a voluntary organisation we also have significant costs. Our insurance costs will almost double this year. One of the prime reasons is that within local communities, Community Games will look, for example, at hiring the local halls or using the local swimming pool. Frequently, these can be the property of the State through the Department of Education and Science or the property of a local authority. Given the pressures on local authorities, where previously there would have been a requirement on Community Games at a local level to show that it was insured for a claim of up to €1 million, for example, the requirement now is for up to €5 million or €6 million. The result naturally has been that, in turn, our premia have increased. We are in a position this year where, after day to day costs and salaries, insurance is now our greatest cost. The committee obviously knows of the impact of insurance on other sectors, but the issue of insurance, if left unaddressed, will force many sporting, community and voluntary organisations to re-assess some of the activities in which they are engaged.
We recently published our own code of conduct regarding child safety and protection. One issue where we would have a major concern - it is now a requirement applying across the whole sporting body - will be that of volunteer clearance. Sporting bodies rely for the most part on volunteers and in many cases there is a requirement to try to ensure Garda clearance. What we would like put in place is the idea of a common Garda clearance form because somebody who volunteers with the Community Games is as likely to volunteer with the GAA, the IRFU, their local scout group or youth club. Such a common Garda clearance form will basically say the volunteer has not got a criminal record, but the issue is also about protecting volunteers. If the committee can assist in that area, we would be grateful.
The final point relates to something which other organisations have probably already noted in presentations to the committee, the question of recognising the role of the volunteer in voluntary organisations. This can be done in many ways, not just in terms of purely financial recognition. It can be in terms of providing support for voluntary organisations and facilitating them in much the same way we have been talking about with regard to the move for the national venue. It can also be addressed in terms of other activities with regard to ensuring that schools' sporting facilities and so on, which may be owned by the State, would in so far as it is possible be made available to voluntary organisations and at a reasonable cost. The Members, as legislators, might also recognise the role of voluntary organisations in the contribution they are making to the development of the State.
Thank you for a very comprehensive presentation in relation to the ongoing work of Community Games. There is plenty of food for thought there. I am taken by the issue of fewer people participating and the aspect of there being someone exceptional in the competition. As someone who went through music competitions in the feiseanna, I can understand the feeling of being in a rut and almost knowing the competitors before even going to the venue. I wonder is that the sole problem, or is it along the lines of peer pressure where it is not cool to participate in sport? They grow up much quicker now and the element of coolness, which used to creep in at the age of 12 or 13 years, can now do so at the age of ten. It is, therefore, very difficult to keep things going. However, at the same time, between the ages of ten and 14 years children are very influenced by the names that the delegation mentioned, such as Denis Irwin, Niall Quinn and Sonia O'Sullivan. Are we doing enough to encourage past participants in Community Games to be role models and engage with people, bringing them back into Community Games? Can sports and arts be used as vehicles to protect people from the more negative challenges that will hit them between the ages of eight and 14 years? Can involvement in sporting activities, because they grow out of pubs or social events with bars, encourage children such as those in the under 12 team to come into contact with bars at an earlier age than if they had not been involved in sport? That is strange, but we must explore all the issues.
The association is currently putting forward its proposals for the national venue and has met the Minister in that regard. Insurance is a huge issue. I have called on the Minister for Education and Science in particular to maximise the use of sporting bodies. Apart from anything else, the delegation will agree that duplication is a big problem around the country. Some places have plentiful facilities, none of which open at the right time, while other places have nothing and we are caught between those two extremes. Is everyone doing their own thing, with the sports partnerships and the association both having their own codes of conduct? While every organisation must have its own remit, is there much going on under an umbrella such as the Federation of Irish Sports? Is Community Games affiliated to it and is there any way that, united, much of the red tape and duplicated administration and effort towards common goals might be minimised?
As many Members will wish to contribute, I will ask only two more questions. How permanent is the ESB sponsorship and is the organisation happy with the support it is getting from the Sports Council? Many people are getting involved in volunteering for the Special Olympics. We would have not given them the benefit of the doubt and said that there was no one prepared to do so, yet Community Games has 20,000 volunteers and the Special Olympics had 34,000 volunteers. How can we tap that resource?
I join the Chairm
an in welcoming Mr. Davenport and Mr. Byrne. They head one of the most successful initiatives or movements ever seen in this country and many thousands have benefited from participation in Community Games over more than 30 years. On one matter, accepted now by most people, I totally agree that as a nation we are less fit because of changed lifestyles. We are not as active as we used to be. Technology and mechanisation have taken over from human body effort and, most of all, there is very little physical education going on in either primary or secondary schools. It is left totally to the enthusiasm of the individual teachers involved.
Generally speaking, the Department inspector going out to schools would never ask what they are doing for physical education, although it is supposed to be part of the curriculum. That is being reviewed at the moment, but it is generally a matter of lip service and I believe everyone would agree in that regard. It is movements such as Community Games, the IRFU, the FAI, the GAA and the Irish Basketball Association which are filling the void left by our education system. The organisation should complement that, but that is not happening. This year, when the Minister withdrew the pittance of a grant - €650 for equipment - it was the final straw regarding the Government's commitment to sport in schools. It was a major blow to them. Although the grant was small, schools were still able to buy a few balls and equipment. It was a help and for many teachers its withdrawal was the final straw.
The function of Community Games is now more important that ever before. Without dwelling on the matter, there is now an alarming incidence of diabetes in young people and children which was not seen before, principally because they get no exercise and are obese. One problem is directly related to the other. The role of Community Games is now more important than ever and that is why the association should be supported as much as possible.
The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform had a problem deciding on locations to house refugees and asylum seekers when the country was hit by that phenomenon, to which we had not been accustomed. It decided on Mosney as a suitable location, but that is obviously affecting the organisation's operation there. The Reception and Integration Agency is examining settling refugees and asylum seekers in Mosney. Through the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform it has been given new grant aid to subsidise the athletes. Has that changed? What must athletes pay in Mosney at the moment? That would obviously be a factor. Some community groups are finding it more difficult to get sponsorship and any increase in payment might affect participation.
Is the graph of participation levels currently going up or down? Are any community groups being lost because of insurance? As we have discussed in this House so many times, it is becoming a major issue. Unfortunately, we do not seem to have done too much about it and perhaps we cannot do anything. I know the importance of the issue from an experience I had today with another kind of organisation.
Regarding the national centre, the delegation said that they hope to have a decision made by the end of the autumn. When they are looking at different locations around the country, that might be an opportunity to take it out of the greater Dublin area. They are aware of a proposal from Castleisland in County Kerry——
Was that just to mention the constituency?
The proposal has been made by Killarney, Castleisland and Millstreet. It is very good and it is important that it is considered. If the organisation is extending its operation - assuming it gets the money to do so - perhaps it might examine the possibility of having such centres as An Ríocht athletic track in Castleisland, which is one of the best in the country. As everyone will know, approximately £1 million has been invested in it and it is a great facility. I hope the delegation will consider different regions around the country, perhaps one for each province, expanding its programme there.
Overall it is very important that Community Games is supported. I know volunteers are hard to get. It is different for the Special Olympics, which is a one-off event, but finding someone to be involved permanently in looking after young teams is another matter. People are becoming weary and younger people are not getting involved. I started coaching young people 25 years ago, but I do not see too many active at the moment. They are simply not getting involved. There will be a major problem there in a few years. It is fine to talk about and praise it but there are not too many people who are prepared to go to the local field every evening and get cold and wet coaching people, putting themselves out and maybe putting young people before their own families. I would like the delegation to respond to that aspect.
I welcome Mr. Davenport and Mr. Byrne who are part of an important organisation. One has to see the efforts they have made in so many aspects of the Community Games to register the amount of time and work it takes. I was lucky enough to be involved with the Community Games and to see teams going on to win in Mosney, the loss of which will be a source of concern for everyone involved in Community Games. There are no fresh faces among the volunteers in the local communities that I know and where I witness involvement in the Community Games. The same reliable people seem to be there time and time again and I am deeply concerned about it. The same applies to other organisations, such as the GAA, which still have a core support but do not seem to be able to recruit new people. I could tell with my eyes closed who will be at the annual meetings of the GAA in Kildare, year in year out. That is a worrying trend and the Community Games is no different.
If the number of volunteers does not increase, how can we generate interest in Community Games in major housing estates to overcome the social problems in these areas? I have raised this with other sporting organisations. We do not seem to be able to address it. We can put together various competitions and sporting events, but we do not seem to be able to get in to major housing estates to get all the young people out. Community Games probably has a better chance of doing that than other organisations in that its wide range of entertainment and sport offers more scope in attracting children from anestate.
Is the association satisfied with the funding it receives for development officers? It is necessary to attract the children into the relevant sports or arts section of the Community Games. What is the association's view of development officers on a county basis and in towns and villages? We may have great sports and arts facilities but we cannot motivate the volunteers, or the professionals, to go into housing estates to attract children to whatever sport or art they want. How does the association think the Government could address that aspect?
Insurance is a problem for every small community. For example, in my area, we have a small hall where now we hold functions only to pay the insurance premium. We are not able to do any more than that. The problem will have to be addressed in the short-term if we are not to lose the impetus of the Community Games and other sports. It now affects everyone. The GAA requires anyone who wants to use its grounds to have personal insurance. I am sure other sporting organisations have the same requirement. What are the association's views on how to construct an approach that will affect such a vital organisation as Community Games in that regard?
I too welcome the representatives of Community Games and compliment them on their work over the decades. There is no doubt that theirs is one of the success stories of volunteerism in Ireland and often perhaps they do not get the credit they so justly deserve. Their point regarding the amenities of local authorities and State amenities being made available should be pursued. I presume it is in some way included in the strategic plan because in recent years these amenities have become more available but not sufficiently as yet. With the challenges now facing all voluntary activity it is important, without being alarmist, that statutory bodies take a partnership approach to finding solutions. Over the years we have seen that schools were very often closed down for most of the summer. I am glad that in many cases they are being opened up and made available and I could see opportunities there being availed of, particularly by Community Games.
We have discussed insurance here before but the situation is not improving. In fact it is becoming very serious. In less than three years almost every premium for a voluntary body has trebled and the figures seem to be plucked out of the air. I have never seen any justification, apart from opportunism, for these increases. Sometimes we are referred back to the tragedy of 11 September 2001 in the United States. At other times we are told that it is due to world developments. In fairness, in so far as Ireland is concerned, nobody has ever advanced a reason for the outrageous increases.
The only way to tackle this is by forming our own cartel. The State, or a body acting at the behest of the State, or which would take on a contract from the State, such as the credit union, or one which has outlets and administrative back-up, should bring on board every voluntary community body, not just for sport, and put together a portfolio of insurance requirements. When the organisation has enough clout it could go to the insurance companies. This is a multi-million euro industry and we will not succeed even by going back to the Federation of Irish Sports, which remains a small part of the market. It should be broadened into the whole voluntary area.
The State will have to give leadership in this area. I do not know if anybody has ever done a survey on the trend but in my experience activities which involve voluntary work are closing down by the hour. The doors of community halls are being locked. Even to hold a meeting inside costs €100 or €200. This is one case where all political parties could come together and say this has to be tackled. In five or six years we will start sounding the bells but, as with the abuse of alcohol which has been discussed for so long, it is only now, as a result of "Prime Time", that every one realises the seriousness of the problem. It is not new; it was always there. The same applies to challenges to voluntary activity where insurance is concerned. If we do not urgently do something about that the association and every other group will have that problem. There are many people now who will not touch voluntary activity because of the personal risks. If one does not have proper cover a litigant can pick the wealthiest person on a committee and take that person to court.
We had the famous case in County Offaly 35 years ago, where two local farmers were taken to court as a result of a fire with no proper insurance cover. That folk memory is still there and people are fighting shy in their thousands of getting involved in this type of work. This committee should have a full session on this matter and talk to the insurance companies to see if something can be initiated with State involvement. The problem will not go away. People who said last year that there would be no insurance price increases are being proved wrong now as insurance costs have gone up again. I am involved in an organisation that is charged €95,000 per annum. In three years it went from almost €40,000 to €95,000. It will not be possible to keep doing this and there will have to be State intervention in this area.
I wish the Community Games well in sourcing a new venue to replace Mosney. Mosney was ideal for the games in many ways, but the delegation made the point that they hope support will available when they source a new venue. They are deserving of that support because, of all the bodies I know, they have succeeded in creating a balance between competition on the one hand and participation for the sake of it on the other. In competitive sport, that is quite an achievement.
I thank the Community Games for their presentation as it is useful to have the opportunity to hear what are the issues and to get a sense of the project and the people behind it. The conciseness of the presentation was helpful. It was also helpful that we have the issues explained and know where the committee can be of assistance as legislators. I too am concerned about insurance costs. I have listened with interest to what has been said. It is causing enormous difficulties and while the Government is working on issues as day to day operators, it cannot be satisfying. Can we have some more information on previous claims and what was the nature of those claims?
I am also interested in the extent to which the ESB has made a commitment in terms of going forward and sponsorship. Much of what the delegation said about the common clearance forms for volunteers makes eminent sense and I would be happy to assist in that kind of procedure. Many of us who have been involved in local authorities previously and various community organisations are aware of the State facilities that are available and which are under resourced and need to be adapted. I thank the delegation for their presentation and the clarity with which they outlined how we can be of assistance.
I too thank Mr. Malcolm Byrne and Mr. Gerard Davenport for their presentation. It is good to see where the Community Games are at now and it is obvious there is much enthusiasm there, but there are problems that need to be addressed.
From the delegation's handout, I note the percentage of primary and secondary school children who walk or cycle to school is reducing - primary school children from 54% in the 1980s to 38% now and secondary school children from 49% to 36%. There are several reasons for this development. The roads have become more dangerous with more traffic and fewer children have bicycles. Parents do not want them on the roads as there is too much concern attached to it. There is also the issue that there are some parents who would drive into the classroom with their children if they could. This development causes its own kind of traffic hazard. There is an element of overdoing it in ferrying children to and from school and, hence, they are exercising less than they once did.
I was a primary teacher in a large school - I have been away from it since 1987. There, one teacher would organise the GAA games, another soccer and another athletics. We used our cars to help one another ferry children to events. Not long before I gave up teaching, we were told we were not insured to ferry children in our cars as our ordinary insurance did not cover it. I am not sure that this issue was ever resolved. It came into the public arena with the whole issue of child safety. Teachers and volunteers in general then became more reluctant to ferry children because of this melee.
The insurance issue has been nibbling away at the base for some time. It has peaked in recent times and I note, according to the handout, the Games' insurance has doubled this year. Like Senator Ó Murchú, I cannot see any justification for that. Deputy Fiona O'Malley asked if there were any major claims, but I doubt that claims against Community Games in recent times would in any way justify doubling the premium.
I have been involved in sport for children for some time and the essential element to it all is enjoyment. That can be lost nowadays. Recently I spoke with an individual involved in sport and he said that on soccer everyone is an expert and there is a milieu created that is not in the interest of the children. It is a vicarious way for adults who are either soccer "has-beens" or "never weres" to keep a fantasy going for themselves, which is not helpful for children. Enjoyment is the point of it all.
I recall the Waterford GAA starting a summer project, "Hurling on the Greens". When I grew up in Waterford, hurling on the greens was a big feature, although the greens have now become more ornamental. The GAA went from place to place in a mini bus with hurleys, sliotars and helmets, encouraging children during the summer holidays to come out and play. We are all behind that kind of activity.
In many of the houses I go into now, one sees the children playing for hours on computer games. We have developed a passive culture with children. Both speakers from the delegation alluded to that in different ways and asked how we can move away from that development. Too many children grow up nowadays listening to these "talking heads" about sport on television. They also see the commercialisation surrounding sports where Manchester United will change their rig a few times during the season and children have to have it. The emphasis has moved away from sport and the enjoyment of sport to the commercialism of sport.
Children are also introduced to the concept of having to win far too early. I remember Mr. Gerry Deegan, who was a good long distance and cross-country runner from the Waterford area, presenting prizes to primary schools cross-country winners one winter evening. He was a good role model for children and they were listening to him as his reputation and what he had achieved was something to which they looked up. He told the audience, mainly 11 and 12 year olds, that they should try, play and enjoy all the games and not become focused or serious about them until reaching late teens. There should be more emphasis on the theme of enjoyment from the sports organisations and the public. The enjoyment my generation got from sport is not around to the same extent anymore.
I compliment Community Games on its code of conduct on child safety, which is an important issue. Mr. Byrne's idea about a general type of clearance for volunteers across a whole range of activities seems to make a lot of sense. We then get back to the need, following the volunteer report Tipping the Scales, for a national policy on volunteering. What Mr. Byrne suggested would be a very sensible adjunct to that policy. I wish the Community Games representatives well and I am grateful for their clear picture of what is happening. I have no doubt they will continue to succeed despite the problems and any committee members who can help, obviously will be happy to do so.
I too welcome the representatives. I was interested to hear Mr. Davenport name people who took part in Community Games in the past. He did not mention me. I was a little upset by that.
Last year's champion.
Not quite last year. As someone who has come through Community Games and taken part in them, I believe their most important aspect is the sheer number of people who take part, whether on the sports side or the arts projects or whatever. We too are trying to get people more involved than they are at the moment in sporting organisations.
My question relates to what Deputy Wall asked earlier about the level of funding the Community Games currently get from central government and how that has varied over the past couple of years in the context of cutbacks we are now seeing. I was interested in Deputy O'Shea's analogy about the hurling on the greens in Waterford. Perhaps we need to do a bit of that in Kilkenny - Waterford is going very well at the moment. The Deputy made several good points, but one in particular was about having to win. Ironically, we are here at the same time as the leaving and junior certificate exams are taking place. It is such a pressurised time for students and people who would be exactly in the category of Community Games entrants. It adds to the momentum of what the Community Games representatives are talking about - the fact that exams are not everything. The pressures often exerted by families when young people are facing into exams can be lightened somewhat if people become more involved in different types of organisations such as the Community Games. This is something that should be emphasised from now on.
The point about volunteers is well made. All of us here have such experience. Whether it is any voluntary organisation or any political party, trying to get people to go to a meeting or become involved in any type of organisation nowadays is difficult. I know that the people running the Community Games structure in my own area are the same people who were running it when I was there 12 years ago. Fair play to them - they have put in a lot of voluntary work, and I have not helped, so perhaps I am not the one to be asking the question - but does the Community Games have an initiative to attract new volunteers or is it done on a local area basis? It is an issue which affects all organisations across the board.
I too thank Mr. Davenport and Mr. Byrne for their presentation. I am very interested in the statistics of 70% participation and 30% competition. This for me has been one of the hallmarks of the Community Games over the years in that while making allowances for the odd unusual case that Mr. Davenport referred to, where an outstanding individual scares off at least the local opposition, one of the great things about Community Games is that it was sport for all, before that became a slogan.
Sport by its very nature is about the creation of an elite and striking the balance between encouraging ongoing participation on an annual basis while at the same time honouring the elite performer within the group is extremely difficult. I would be very interested to hear how the Community Games have managed to maintain such a high level of participative content rather than merely competitive content.
That applies also to the volunteer situation. How are we going to encourage volunteers? It appears to be the case countrywide that because a certain group is active, everyone else lets them at it. I am involved in a couple of clubs myself and the big bugbear, which probably applies to the Community Games too, is travel. The classic case is that of kids being dropped at the gate on the day of an away match while the father or mother goes off to play golf and comes back to collect them after someone else has driven them, looked after them and taken responsibility for them, with all that this entails.
Is there a question of greater financial requirements and where it can be afforded? How can we address that? I know insurance is a major factor, but there must be some way of coming up with a common policy through all the voluntary bodies. Every single voluntary sporting body, and every body in non-sporting areas, dealing with children is paying the price in a big way. A certain workload is being undertaken, but an additional workload is being foisted upon those who do the work. In the era in which we are living, the responsibilities have built up over the years and they really are quite frightening in some instances.
Regarding insurance, I listened with interest to Senator Ó Murchú and I have no doubt that something radical will be required very soon in relation to insurance for voluntary organisations. I should declare an interest at this stage. I am involved in insurance in the medical world. This crisis hit the medical world some eight to ten years ago and the end product of the crisis has been the establishment of the Enterprise Liability Agency, which is a State-operated scheme whereby the professional indemnity for all doctors other than GPs is dealt with by the State. That was inaugurated last year. I feel that there is a role for such a scheme in the voluntary sector because of its sheer size.
The other aspect of which we must never lose sight is that for an action to be successful against any individual element of the voluntary sector, it has to be taken by an individual who is in very close contact, more often than not, with that organisation. I know there is a rule of law that an individual cannot sue a club of which he or she is a member. There may be possibilities there for tightening up administrative functions of all voluntary bodies. This is perhaps something to which the State could give real attention. If membership was required for voluntary bodies, it would eliminate a huge risk factor from the insurance area for those bodies.
If the parents of a child involved in Community Games had to take out membership of the Games organisation, even if only for a token sum of €1, my understanding is that under the law at present the parents would be precluded from suing the organisation. This is something that could be considered. The Community Games representatives have enough on their plates and I am not saying that the Games as an individual body should look at it. However, we must start looking at such areas where matters can be tightened up. Otherwise there is the prospect not of a crisis but of the disintegration of the voluntary sector in this country within a relatively short time.
I would like to finish on a positive note. I remember Joe Connolly in Walkinstown 30 years ago and I had the pleasure of being in Mosney last summer at the games. Community Games is one of the great organisations and long may it prosper.
I welcome Mr. Byrne and Mr. Davenport and reiterate what was said by all our colleagues about Community Games. It is an example for everybody and we should all take a lead from its positive attitude and promotion of the good things in life, sport and children. What is most refreshing when listening to the delegation is the lack of negativity. The organisation has problems, which the representatives have brought to our attention, but they did not go on moaning and groaning about them. They tell us that what they are doing is good and everybody knows that. They look on the bright side of life and if more people did that, we would all get on a little better and not be dragged back by being negative.
On the national venue I thoroughly agree with the representatives. Since responsible people such as them, who are doing great work, recognise it, I hope that the whole country will come together and push for a national stadium or venue where people can participate in different types of sports, particularly in the Community Games. If the national stadium did nothing other than facilitate the Community Games, what a great day's work that would be for the children and adults of Ireland. We will take the delegation's views on that on board and pursue the matter.
On insurance, regrettably, whether people want to admit it, there is a shocking claims culture in this country. I was involved in various clubs and organisations, none of which I will name, but one would be shocked by the size and number of claims. That is what drove up the cost of insurance. The insurance companies were prepared to settle too easily. They were a soft touch. Now it is affecting decent, innocent people, who are having to pay the bulk of the costs. Every claim made now should be fought and everyone and every circumstance connected with it investigated. We have seen the national papers and the courts recently. Some of the claims going in were the tip of the iceberg of major insurance fraud in this country. I would like to see more competition in insurance. People ask me how it is that a company in Switzerland and one in Ireland of the same name, although perhaps based here, can have different premia. The excuse is that the claims are very high. We will have to tackle them because for far too long we simply let it slide. If one lived in a small community, one knew where the money was and, unfortunately, it all came out of claims.
I agree with the delegation on child safety and on recognising the role of voluntary organisations. We were always known for voluntary organisations and there are still a great many such organisations and volunteers. We will never lose that because people in this country have a great feeling and a great heart. There will be more volunteers and very many young people would join voluntary organisations and show the lead if they were given a little guidance. Very little would be needed to tap them into it. If one asks people to volunteer to do something for a genuine cause, they will do so and we have proved that. However, they must be asked. They will not come forward because they might not realise the need.
I wish the delegation every success and look forward to following their careers and the future of the Community Games with interest.
I hope you had plenty of paper and a strong pen, but it is a compliment to those who gave the presentation today that members had such interest in the responses. Deputy Kelly made a point about the positive aspect. It is a good thing about this committee that people come along to say what can be done and what is being done as opposed to what is not being done. We therefore reiterate that it is good to see the work that you are doing. I do not know about Deputy Deenihan in County Kerry, but if we are seeking funding for this new venue, I will put my pitch in that a great deal of cross-Border funding could be accessed, particularly as you are a 32-county organisation. I have thrown a spanner in Deputy Deenihan's works. I suggest that you answer what you can. If you do not have the details on anything, feel free to send it on to us later.
I once again thank the committee members for their interest and for the breadth and range of questions. I will try to answer some of the specific points and Mr. Davenport will conclude about the big picture issues, including involving volunteerism. The Chairman asked about the code of conduct and duplication issues regarding the Federation of Irish Sports. We are members of the federation. Mr. George O'Toole, our national president, is on the FIS executive. Our work on the code of conduct was carried out in conjunction with the Sports Council.
A number of Deputies and Senators raised the question of funding. Our prime source of State funding at national level is the Sports Council. We have received funding of just short of €250,000 from it this year. That is not an increase on last year. Our primary commercial sponsor is the ESB and that sponsorship is secure until the end of 2004. We are currently in discussions with it to see whether that will continue, but, like any voluntary body, if sponsorship or other revenues come along, we will certainly not turn them down. While the concentration has been on the sporting side of the organisation, much of our involvement is also in arts and culture. Crown Paints has recently come on board as the commercial sponsor of our art challenge.
Senator Phelan raised funding in the context of a strategy to attract volunteers. As a Wexford man, I hope that there is not too much hurling happening on the greens in Kilkenny or Waterford. We are seeking funding through the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs for a new programme aimed at strengthening our volunteer base by providing training and mentoring support. Mr. Davenport will touch on the volunteer issue. The big strength of our organisation is our volunteer network and we wish to secure the funding to be able to strengthen it. Let us hope that is the case.
The other funding issue, raised by Deputy Deenihan, was the issue of the support that we will receive for Mosney and the costs involved in staging the national finals there. When the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform decided to use Mosney to house refugees and asylum seekers three years ago, that obviously caused certain difficulties for the Community Games since the number of beds that would be available in the camp was reduced quite significantly. The agency agreed to come in and help keep the costs down for each participant, also subsidising the individuals involved. That support has continued, but this year we experienced a cut from the Department. Last year we paid about €55 per Mosney participant and this year we paid €70. Initially, we did not intend to have a subsidy but we worked closely with the Reception and Integration Agency which has been helpful in that regard. We met the Minister, Deputy McDowell, on the issue and we were able to recover some of the subsidy, but it is a concern that the level of support previously available was reduced, and that cost goes directly to some of the participants.
On the question Deputy Wall asked about the funding of development officers, we have one national employed staff person who deals with the issue of development. We have volunteer development officers working at a provincial and county level. When we make submissions to the Sports Council, our hope is to move towards a position where we will have four provincial development officers, but that is a funding question for the Sports Council. If members of this committee can raise that issue or provide us with any support, we would be grateful but, in terms of strengthening our volunteer base, that would be key.
Deputy O'Malley asked about the issue of previous claims, which comes into the general question of insurance. Over the years claims have been made against organisations, particularly those in the sporting arena where children get injured or difficulties arise. One could count on two hands, however, the number of claims we would deal with during a year. In many cases, many of the claims do not go any further. Therefore, the number of claims is minimal.
In terms of the increasing costs of insurance and the excuses that are made, the experience of voluntary organisations in North America after 11 September 2001 is that they have not seen the same levels of increase. That may be due to the fact that we are a more litigious society. I welcome the suggestion from Senator Ó Murchú that this committee could examine the impact of increased insurance costs on voluntary organisations. That is something that would help us, and others, but if those costs continued to rise we either have to pass them on to the participants, reduce some of the activities or local volunteers will have to fundraise to a far greater extent. That is the reality.
On the question of Mosney and the national finals venue, we intend to make an announcement this summer. I am aware of the Kerry proposal, which we are examining.
A number of Oireachtas Members - Senator Phelan mentioned this also - would have been involved in Community Games at different stages. Deputy Charlie O'Connor is our former national PRO and while going through the archives yesterday, I found a picture from the mid-1980s of Deputy Paddy McHugh in a Galway tracksuit on a very mucky and wet day in Mosney. I am certain that we should consider Oireachtas Members who were previous participants when we start to——
I suggest you should be careful how you use the photographs.
On a lighter note and on the question of photographs, I have a photograph with me today from the Donegal Democrat of Senator McHugh's exploits in Old Trafford last week. We talk about the younger age group but it is good to see people in the older age groups still participating.
We do our best.
It was a good day, Senator McHugh.
Is boxing a sport in Community Games?
He appears to have ended up with a broken nose.
I think the return match will be in the boxing ring.
As long as there are no high jumps you will be okay.
I want to deal with a number of issues that have been raised. A Deputy asked about participation. There is a very high level of participation among 12, 13 and 14 year olds. As children get older they do not want to participate to the same level. With the new plan, we have cut our upper age group to 16 years because we had boys and girls coming to Mosney who would be 17 years within a few weeks of 31 July. They have been participating for the past four or five years and it is their last weekend in Mosney. They know the ins and outs of what they cannot do and security wise they were proving to be a handful. One can understand that because how can we tell a 17 year old to go to bed and put their light out at 12 o'clock when they might be going out to a local disco or somewhere else if they were at home? The 17 year olds from ten years ago are the 14 year olds of today.
Deputy Glennon asked how we kept up the participation in the competition. Mosney is a safe and secure environment. We talked about parents dropping off children and not coming back to collect them until the competition was over. Parents believe that once their children are in Mosney they are in a safe and secure environment. Unfortunately, nothing else in Ireland can provide the same security and facilities, although the facilities in Mosney are not up to the standard we would require them to be.
Another interesting point is that if a child or young person is beaten in, say, the swimming final and does not qualify - I saw it last Saturday, and I keep referring back to County Donegal - they come to me immediately asking if I can get them to Mosney to sell programmes or whatever. There are facilities where we take on 12, 14 and 16 year olds to sell programmes and do what we call runners - taking results from the results office and other jobs. There is an ambition among the people who have competed in the past to get back to Mosney again, even if it is not as a competitor.
This year our youth committee has gone into the colleges because people who competed in Community Games are now in third level education. We have started societies in colleges and that has borne fruit in that a number of students have come back this year to help us. We have a system where to be a manager, the person must be at least 18 years of age and when these young people reach the age of 18 they come back to help their counties, although not in great numbers. That system only started this year but we hope to build on it and that it will be a future for us.
I mentioned parents. There is the parent who drops the child off at the gate and does not come back till the evening to see the child. There is then the other parent whose expectations of their children's abilities exceed what the child is able to do, but where do we strike a balance? That is a problem in all sports. I have seen instances where violence was almost used against a child because he or she did not do this or that but the child was not physically capable of doing what the parent expected him or her to do.
We talked about the hiring of venues. That is a problem. We have to fundraise locally and nationally and many local committees find it difficult to come up with the money for these venues.
Another Deputy mentioned a certain national governing body which is insisting on us having our own insurance clause. They want us to sign a 24 hour agreement but we might only use the pitch for five or six hours, which means that if something happens while somebody else is using it later, the Community Games insurance will be responsible for that problem.
Many friendships begin in Mosney and that encourages children to come back each year, even if it is only to sell the programmes. They may have met girlfriends, boyfriends or friends from other counties, which is great to see. Some parents may be concerned to see 1,000 or 1,500 children at a disco ranging from eight up to 17 years of age. People will say that eight or ten year olds should not be at the same disco as 14, 15, 16 or 17 year olds but we have tried it the other way. We had a disco for those under 12 years and one for those over 12 but we found that the under 12 disco was deserted after a while. The children had gone to the over 12 one. Some people believe that children under 12 years should not be watching the way these young people dance, but they all want to be together. Participation and friendship has existed for the past 30 years and that continues because as leaders and managers we strike up friendships that last for years.
There is a social side to Mosney as well. If we expect people to give up a weekend to come up and look after children, they are also entitled to a few free hours. A rota system of managers and parents is worked out in Mosney which means that the children are not neglected and the parents can get to the pub for a few drinks at night. They are not stuck in all the time. Some people do not bother with that but the facility is there if they want it.
Mosney can cater for 2,000 beds in any weekend. There is nowhere else in Ireland that can do that currently. We will have to reorganise our whole structure or whatever in that regard.
We hope we get more volunteers from the third level sector but people have to be asked to volunteer. They have got a taste for volunteering as a result of the Special Olympics and we hope that will continue, which will help us move forward into the future.
We are at a crossroads now when one considers that we might not have Mosney in the future. The new plan is a vision with which we have to go forward. We cannot sit back and do nothing. Some people will have difficulty moving forward with it because they have been used to something for 30 years. As everyone knows, however, we cannot sit back. Every organisation must change if it wants to go forward and attract new people into the organisation.
Several speakers said that the people they saw involved in Community Games ten, 15 or 20 years ago are the same people who are involved now. That is a fact. Younger people are not getting involved. Deputy Wall mentioned the new estates being an ideal base. They are an ideal base but younger parents do not appear to want to get involved with anything outside the home or work. Work and home come first. They do not want to get involved in local committees or anything like that and, as Deputy Wall rightly said, if they do not get involved these children will become involved in activities which we do not want to see them involved in. We have to provide them with opportunities to turn them away from whatever else is out there.
I thank the committee for its invitation and for the questions members asked, which show they have an interest and a deep knowledge of Community Games. I hope that when we are looking for a new venue and knocking on doors of Departments seeking assistance - not just financial assistance - we can rely on the support of members of this committee. We are a unique organisation. We have been involved with the children of Ireland for 30 years and we hope we can be involved with them for another 30 years. I thank the committee for its help and I thank the Chairman for allowing us the time here today.
Thank you very much. You give positive opportunities to so many people. As far as the national venue is concerned, we want to see the games rehoused. We would have been happy to see the games remain in the current venue and I believe I speak on behalf of all the committee when I say that.
On the insurance issue, the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, has the Tipping the Balance report on volunteerism, which comes under his ambit. Volunteerism comes into all the areas with which we are dealing and early in the next session we may take it on as our lead subject, incorporating the issue of insurance and the ideas put forward by Senator Ó Murchú, among others. In the meantime, as Chairman, I will write to the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, in respect of the concerns expressed about the insurance issue. I will also write to the Ministers for Education and Science, the Environment and Local Government and Arts, Sport and Tourism on the points raised about maximising the facilities currently available and the question of the specific role they can play in relation to helping you to get volunteer clearance. I assume a great deal has been learned from the volunteer clearance that took place for the Special Olympics and perhaps we can explore that aspect to see how we can help in that regard.
I have already alluded to your fourth point about volunteerism. I hope you have a good summer. We look forward to working with you in the future. Not many of us can say we will be here for the next 30 years but we aspire to that. We are on your side and we will do what we can to help. We would appreciate it if you kept in contact with us on the difficulties that arise or the challenges you wish us to meet. Thank you very much.
