I welcome from Basketball Ireland, Ms Debbie Massey, chief executive officer, and Mr. Aidan Gordon, director. Ms Massey will make a Powerpoint presentation.
Role and Functions: Discussion with Basketball Ireland.
Ms Debbie Massey
I thank Deputies for giving their time to listen the presentation. Mr. Gordon is deputising for the president of Basketball Ireland, Mr. Tony Colgan, who is, I believe, a neighbour of the Chairman. He is one of the Colgan family from Bagenalstown.
The purpose of the presentation is to update members on the position of basketball and the role of Basketball Ireland and discuss the growth in participation in basketball and sports funding in general. We will then outline Basketball Ireland's strategic plan for the next five years and address Government policy on sport. I assume all members have a copy of the presentation.
It is not widely known that basketball is the third largest participation sport in Ireland. This conclusion is based on data from ESRI research carried out on behalf of the Irish Sports Council. The relevant figures are available in the document. The vast majority of those who participate in basketball are in the post-primary sector. The major challenge facing the sport is to transfer as many as possible of this group to club level to maintain their participation in the sport.
Basketball is the largest female participation sport in Ireland, with no exceptions. Approximately 80% of post-primary school students play basketball. The ESRI chart shows the level of female sports participation. The point that is most noteworthy is on the second chart and this shows the number of participants involved in playing basketball on an extra-curricular basis. These children play basketball by choice outside of school hours. This sector accounts for the largest percentage of children who take part in basketball. The other sports achieve less than half of the participation enjoyed by basketball. That is the important message.
I will now deal with the percentage of primary school children who play basketball. It is noteworthy that within the PE structure in schools the biggest participation is in basketball. A substantial percentage of children also play basketball on an extra-curricular basis where it is second in participation levels to Gaelic football.
We have a unique selling point in the sport in terms of the integration of non-Irish nationals through basketball. Many members are familiar with the statistics of the various nationalities now residing in this country. The CSO statistics for 2006 are an understatement and the number for 2007 and 2008 is higher. Basketball is the No. 1 sport in Lithuania and Latvia and it is the No. 2 sport in Poland where it is second only to soccer. Basketball is also a huge sport in China and the Philippines which are well represented in this country. We have the numbers and the locations of the first three key nationalities on a regional basis around the country. We know where they are and we have the wherewithal to integrate them into society through the medium of basketball.
Our intercultural programme, the summer jam programme, was run very successfully last August throughout Ireland and culminated in a final in the national basketball arena. An article is included in the documentation about a young lady called Sonia. It appeared in The Irish Times on 18 August 2007 and details her involvement with the summer jam programme. The key message is how easy she found it to make friends by virtue of her involvement in basketball.
We have more than 600 post-primary schools in Ireland and 580 of them participate in the official Basketball Ireland national cup and leagues. It is a 32 county competition. Huge crowds come to the national basketball arena and the regional centres for the earlier stages of the competition. There has been a marked increase in the number of pupils coming through as stars in the school system from non-Irish national communities who come here with a very strong basketball skill base. This participation is now starting to flow though our club scene which is also very good.
Clubs in all areas are seeing an increased number of people becoming involved from the immigrant communities. There are participants from all age brackets. We are very fortunate in basketball in that we are not just gaining additional players and participants in the sport but we are also gaining additional coaches and referees, from, for example, Lithuania and Latvia. We badly need these highly skilled people. We are recruiting very heavily and are delighted to get them. We have also been able to avail of volunteers and officials through the immigrant community.
In some cases teams are exclusively drawn from the immigrant communities. This is often the first step in the integration process. For example, there is a complete team of Lithuanians competing in the Dublin men's basketball league. There are also leagues made up of individual nationalities. There is a Filipino league, for instance, where all the team members are from the Philippines. The participation of non-Irish nationals has already extended its way throughout the sport. A total of 7% of players in the men's super league are non-Irish and 14% of players in the men's division 1 are from outside of Ireland. I am sure members would agree that this is an excellent statistic for the participation of non-Irish people at the top level of a sport here.
We are currently at the end stage of our 2004 to 2008 strategic plan. We have made very good inroads under all headings, with some progressing better than others. By the end of the year we will have completed the picture in all of these areas and we will be ready to roll out another five year plan.
The governance model is 32 county based. We have a national central board, followed by regional boards, followed by local area boards. In the past four to five years we have gone to a lot of trouble to bed down those structures to make sure the sport is fit for purpose and that we are fit to deliver any projects we take on in terms of implementing and growing the sport.
Our strategic direction is lined up with Government policy, which is to support NGBs which have robust planning and governance. We are aware it is Government policy to grow sports participation levels. We are also aware that the Government's policy is to increase female participation in sport and to integrate foreign national communities. I am pleased to say, Basketball Ireland can tick all of those boxes.
I will give Mr. Gordon an opportunity to speak.
Mr. Aidan Gordon
Moving on to the issue of growing participation, to which Ms Massey alluded, we have carried out much research in the past 12 to 24 months. One of the things that highlights and gives us confidence about basketball's growing participation is an analysis of the ESRI statistics from its 2005 report. One of the striking features that was not brought out by the ESRI itself in the report is what happens to children who play extra-curricular sport vis-à-vis moving on to play club sports.
Of the children who play Gaelic football in school, an additional 13,000 play Gaelic football for clubs. There is a good linkage between the schools and the clubs. The same number who participate in extra-curricular soccer in school play club soccer but basketball, which is an indoor sport - that is an important point - loses 33,000 players.
Reference was made to the opportunity to grow participation in basketball. The figure of 33,000 is equal to the Irish Sports Council's figure for growth in participation in all sports in its current strategic plan. These 33,000 people have voted with their feet. They play basketball in school and they want to play basketball outside school but there are certain things that inhibit them from doing this. As well as the information we have from people on the ground, that study gives us the confidence to know we can definitely grow the sport.
In the next planning cycle we believe we can grow that extra-curricular activity by between 30,000 and 50,000 people. We are very confident we can do that. This is about growing participation in line with Government policy. Given the nature of the sport, more than 50% of these people will be female because that is the nature of our demographic profile. In addition, there will be significant numbers from immigrant communities in these numbers, as Ms Massey alluded to previously. We are very confident about the capacity of this sport to generate on those goals around growing participation, female participation and getting people from the immigrant community involved. Our confidence is backed up by the statistics to which I referred.
We would like to share some of our perspectives on the funding of sports in Ireland. There is obviously a relationship between funding and what can happen at the level of participation. In the Celtic tiger era, Government spending on sports has increased significantly. The Irish Sports Council is one of the principal vehicles for allocating current funds to national governing bodies. Spending has increased significantly from €14 million to approximately €50 million and has remained static this year. As the members all know, €50 million to €80 million in capital funding from the national lottery is allocated per annum. The overall figure for capital funding to date is close to €0.75 billion, which shows we have certainly invested heavily in the sports sector.
On the allocation of current funding, we are perplexed by certain issues. The first concerns the allocation of Irish Sports Council core funding per participant per sport. There is a great disparity in this regard and we have shared our concerns about it with the Irish Sports Council. It is natural that there would be some disparity but it is the scale in this case that we find somewhat perplexing.
The second issue is that the participation fund, which has been in existence for quite a number of years to increase participation in sport, is directed exclusively towards the three field sports. In the period 2001 to 2006, €43 million was invested in furthering participation in the three big field sports. The future allocation of the funding is of concern to us.
Issues arise, therefore, in respect of the way current funding is spent. The State spends a vast sum of money on the capital side, significantly more than it does on the current side. It needed to do so but all the current research and commentary suggests that we need to slow this down. For example, the 2004 ESRI report on sports participation among adults states we now need to think carefully about the mix and balance. Throwing more into bricks and mortar will not necessarily increase participation. The ESRI repeated this exact message in its 2007 report on sport in disadvantaged areas. Other reports state that our policy should not be to have more bricks and mortar or create more space, of which we have a lot, but to increase participation and the use of the existing space. We certainly support this policy direction.
Commercial funding is available in addition to Government funding but the reality is that the big three field sports receive the bulk of commercial funding in Ireland. Their share has been increasing rather than decreasing and the basic fact is that the commercial income for each of these sports is greater than the sum the Irish Sports Council allocates to all sports, including field sports, in any given year. In this regard, issues arise regarding the ability to pay, means testing and all the methodologies used in disbursing tax revenue to the greatest advantage while ensuring fairness and equity. As the commercial world grows and as commercial incomes grow, this issue will warrant some consideration.
We have put together a comprehensive, strategic plan for the period 2008 to 2012. It is highly detailed and built on all our research and links participation growth to the associated requirement for facilities, referees and officials. The plan is entirely integrated. We can plan different scenarios depending on different levels of funding and the business model we use extends right down to county level. We are able to demonstrate return on investment through the planning model we have put together, which we believe is the first of such sophistication in Irish sport.
The main challenge we are addressing in the plan concerns facilities. Given that basketball is an indoor sport, access to and the affordability of facilities are crucial. I refer not only to commercial facilities but also to schools. The square footage of unopened and unavailable facilities built with taxpayers' money is vast and even the facilities that are open are very expensive. A child who wants to play basketball in Dublin could have to pay fees in the order of €250 to €280 per annum. It costs €50 to join a soccer club. The reason the fee to join a basketball club is €250 to €280 is the cost of hall hire, which is the largest expense for any basketball club in Ireland. Clubs are paying top-notch commercial rates and this applies to all indoor sports. Given these fees, increasing participation in sport represents a profound challenge. Other challenges relate to our capacity to grow our technical side. We are conscious that our number of participants does not translate into commercial profile.
We are quite positive about the strength and depth of the plan we have put together. The top level of our plan states that, for an investment of €12.5 million over five years across eight programmes and 61 projects, we can deliver on the participation number to which I referred. The board of basketball Ireland is committed to finding a way to generate €3 million of the €12.5 million itself through commercial income. It will be making some announcements in the coming weeks to highlight some of the ways in which it will do so. However, support is required to raise the remaining €9.5 million.
Ms Debbie Massey will speak about our perspectives on policy initiatives that would support our efforts.
Ms Debbie Massey
Having carried out the strategic review, engaged in the planning process in respect of our most recent plan and worked through the model that will increase participation, we believe there are a number of policy strands that, if adopted by the Government, would greatly assist the sport of basketball and many of the other smaller sports national governing bodies, especially those of indoor sports. There needs to be a specially funded participation initiative focused on indoor sports, not unlike the field sports participation fund. There really should be funding for the indoor sports considering the climate that prevails in Ireland at most times of the year and given that basketball is mainly played by females. It is the preference of young females to be involved in a sport that is cleaner than field sports and which is played in conditions that are a little bit warmer and more comfortable. An initiative needs to be launched to help indoor sports.
I appreciate that considerable work and research has been done in this area and that the Taskforce on Active Citizenship has completed its report on the use of facilities, including non-sport-related facilities. A mechanism needs to be found whereby indoor facilities can be made more available in the first instance and more affordable for community groups and sports clubs. Both of the initiatives to which we have referred, were they adopted, could be delivered through rebalancing sports funding by increasing the emphasis on current projects rather than capital projects and if recognition were given to the ability to pay in terms of allocating scarce current resources.
We stated we are available to talk about the role of Basketball Ireland. Our message is that our role as an organisation is to deliver increased participation in our sport.
I thank Ms Massey for her presentation.
I thank Ms Massey for her interesting presentation. I discovered many things I did not know about basketball although it is intuitively attractive to females. Did Ms Massey say there are more females than males or is it a 50-50 split?
Ms Debbie Massey
It is 52% female and 48% male.
That is great. I was surprised to hear that it is exclusively an indoor sport. Maybe I watch too many American movies but they always seem to play outside in the good weather in America.
Ms Debbie Massey
It is largely an indoor sport.
Competitions are held indoors. Ms Massey said the challenge is to get children from school to stay in basketball and join the club scene, which is highly desirable. I am not clear what Ms Massey wants us to do to help that happen. A great deal of capital has been spent on physical sports facilities but programmes have not been so well funded. If so many facilities have been provided why are they so expensive to hire? Is the funding going to the wrong kind of organisation?
Basketball Ireland has made a submission to Government for funding up to €12.5 million. Why is it making the submission to Government rather than to the Sports Council? Why does it think it is at the tail end of the Irish Sports Council's priorities given its high level of participation and potential to grow? It seems to be an attractive integration tool which flows both ways because they seem to raise our game.
I thank Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon for coming here today and for their presentation. I was here the last time Ms Massey appeared before the committee. The major concern is the loss of 33,000 youngsters from primary and secondary school. That applies to the GAA as well. That is the most important period in a youngster's life and is the time of the biggest drop-out rate from sport. Is Basketball Ireland's biggest problem the lack of facilities at club level? Is it easier to turn to soccer or rugby or GAA games because of the lack of basketball facilities?
Has Basketball Ireland been in contact with other sporting organisations that the Government has supported to use their sports halls? Many of the field sports also have sports halls. Is it possible to make a link there that would help Basketball Ireland? The Football Association of Ireland is working with local authorities to create a small area for five-a-side soccer. Where stands Basketball Ireland in respect of the same facility especially in the summer? If the local authority has a small area for soccer why not put up a basketball hoop and see what can happen there? I fully support the efforts of Basketball Ireland. I understand that it has only two major arenas, one in Dublin and one in Cork for a fine game. It is a great game to watch and provides great television. The recent finals were a joy to watch. It is a superb sport involving wonderful skill.
Does Basketball Ireland aim to provide regional facilities to match those in Dublin and Cork, perhaps in Waterford and Kilkenny? A club facility in a town would be very expensive. How can we help Basketball Ireland ensure that the facilities kids had at school level can be used by teenagers and up to adult? It is a serious problem that facilities are closed all over the place.
The Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Carey, has a serious interest in trying to rid the country of drugs. He will tell us of all the effort and time that he and his staff are spending on achieving a shift in responsibility for youngsters. However, the finest facilities in the country are closed to the same kids whom we are trying to protect. There is a basic problem there that must be addressed. I hope that this committee can make a proposal on this or get a rapporteur to write a paper to the effect that we must move quickly to ensure that every facility funded by the Government is used to its maximum. If we do not do this the Minister of State, Deputy Carey, will be before the committee more often than not and people like Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon will suffer accordingly because the facilities they seek will not be available for the children who want to play.
The GAA has a significant problem too with the loss of kids. I urge the Chairman to appoint a rapporteur to find a way to use facilities on which taxpayers' money has been spent.
I thank Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon for their presentation, which contained some very interesting statistics. People would not be aware of the level of female participation. It can often be difficult to get girls to participate in sport in the way we would like them to do. The most disconcerting statistic is the drop-off between schools and club level, because while 33,000 is a significant number of participants it is a phenomenal number to lose. It is disturbing that capital funding is not the issue, rather it is the cost of renting the facility. We should examine how these facilities can be made available. The delegation made the point that it has a relatively weak club infrastructure. Why is this and what does the delegation believe should be done to encourage the strengthening of the infrastructure?
What is the male-female ratio on the 33,000 figure given by the delegation? The delegation claimed technical disciplines of the sport are underresourced. While I am a great supporter of non-competitive as well as competitive sports, it is important we have the best quality athletes to represent Ireland at national and international levels. If the technical aspects of the sport are not developed to the extent they have been in soccer, GAA and rugby, then it will be difficult to achieve success.
If Basketball Ireland had the funding, would it be able to deliver on getting additional numbers of participants in the sport?
I welcome Basketball Ireland to the meeting. I have always been involved in sport and it is great to hear about one with which I am not too familiar.
How does Basketball Ireland intend to address the gaping hole created by players from post-primary level not continuing to club level? What targets and projects does it have to increase the number of college players and senior club players from 1,800 upwards?
The Neptune and Tallaght basketball arenas are fantastic facilities. Have we enough top-class basketball coaches? Would Basketball Ireland consider bringing American star players to schools? Children are very keen to meet their heroes and this would captivate them, particularly as many children play basketball in school.
The delegation referred to the allocation of €43 million to field sports and how it would like to tap into that. I was impressed that basketball has the largest female participation in Ireland. Girls often drop out of sport after school and do not take it up at third level because it seems uncool. We must make it cool, particularly when one in four of our schoolchildren is obese.
The percentage of adults not taking part in sport and not having a good diet is having a crippling effect on our health services. We must get people to continue playing sports after leaving school. It is not just about winning cups and medals but social inclusion. For a rural constituency like Carlow-Kilkenny, which I have the honour to represent, sport ensures people and communities are linked together.
In the 1950s and 1960s enormous community halls were built in rural areas. These days they tend to be used for community activities but not for basketball, badminton and other indoor sports. These halls have the height, the width and suitable flooring for basketball. An audit should be done of rural halls where basketball could be introduced to compliment the GAA.
I have played two sports for Ireland at international level. I support Basketball Ireland and the advancement of basketball at all levels, particularly after post-primary school.
I am one of those drop-out statistics for basketball. Many moons ago I was a Leinster interprovincial basketball player but moved on to the GAA fields. I was taken aback at the phenomenal number of people who play basketball in primary and post-primary school but then stop playing.
Lessons can be learned from the GAA and the FAI. Basketball Ireland is involved with 580 schools but it has no local basketball club structure. Basketball should be linked to the local GAA club structure which has the facilities such as halls. Basketball needs a local identity with villages and towns similar to that of the GAA or rugby clubs. Basketball Ireland is losing out by not tapping into the local scene.
The 52% female participation is fantastic and is a rate which other sports would envy. The largest challenge in all sports is to get more ladies playing. Basketball Ireland should capitalise on that.
The delegation identified the foreign national community as providing participants for the sport. Involving this community is also good for integration and community life, an issue that affects all constituencies. It could be extended from sport to overall participation in the community.
The delegation claimed it does not need capital funding. I would have thought more basketball arenas are needed. The National Basketball Arena in Tallaght is a fantastic achievement but there is nothing similar on Dublin's north side. I can understand how the Tallaght complex must charge €250 for several hours. However, if there was a rival facility in Dublin and the provinces, some competition would be introduced. Capital spending on the sport is, I believe, essential. If the sport is to be promoted and schoolchildren are to be encouraged to take it up at club level, one needs large arenas to do so.
I do not believe basketball has caught the public imagination. At the basketball club finals, 300 people make a lot of noise but it is small when compared with the GAA club championships. The GAA all-Ireland club championship teams such as St. Vincent's and Nemo Rangers are clearly identified with their localities. Basketball has a problem in this regard which it needs to address.
As an all-Ireland body - we shall be delighted if there is a 32-county national team - on the question of the national anthem, do the Northern Ireland clubs have any problem standing to "Amhrán na bhFiann"? I have major issues - and I was in Croke Park on Saturday - in having to listen to "Ireland's Call", which I find pretty galling, irrespective of our Northern colleagues. Basketball has "Amhrán na bhFiann" and I very much welcome that. If basketball can do it, so should rugby.
I thank Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon for their presentation. I knew when Ms Massey left Croke Park that the GAA had lost a good asset, and we have seen that today.
Fundamentally, I disagree with Deputy Kennedy as regards basketball. Coming from the sporting capital of Ireland, I can say that basketball is a major motivating force in communities in Cork. Part of the crux of Basketball Ireland's difficulties is in the context of the provision of facilities. As part of the previous Government's decision to enter into public private partnerships, one of the schools I am familiar with, had to force a basketball club in the area to pay the going commercial rate for the hire of a hall. Previously, under the old Department of Education and Science community school-type arrangement, a deal was done with the school, and therein lies the problem. I acknowledge that perhaps, as Deputy Kennedy indicated, basketball might not have caught the imagination of the people. Basketball Ireland, however, has done a great job as regards the super league. The Evening Echo in Cork through John Coughlan gives major coverage to basketball and I am curious as regards what type of funding arrangement Basketball Ireland has with RTE regarding the coverage of games vis-à-vis the commercial deals the broadcast station has with the GAA.
As a former teacher I have accompanied school basketball teams to Tallaght and the regional finals in Neptune. Such tournaments depend upon facilities. Deputy Olivia Mitchell mentioned America in that context. One of the mistakes Ireland made was as regards the provision of community facilities - such as the community hall with basketball linked to it. The figures before the committee make the case in terms of basketball being the third largest participation sport in Ireland and the largest female participation sport in the country. This is a testimony to Basketball Ireland, not just because of the sport, but as regards the work it has done. In preparation for today's meeting I read Basketball Ireland's report and the strategic plan it has put in place. That is a very important initiative the fruits of which we do not see.
We as politicians have a duty to talk to the Department of Education and Science, just as Basketball Ireland has to talk to the local authorities regarding the provision of community facilities free of charge. There is a night-time basketball initiative in certain areas of Cork, which has proven to be a great success because of the willingness of Basketball Ireland, the sports officer of Cork City Council and the local community to participate. I am alarmed and amazed that there is no special participation initiative fund for indoor sports. Given my background in the GAA, I should be loath to take money away from that organisation, but it must be acknowledged that in the case of basketball the participation levels are vastly superior to other sports. Perhaps I could get Basketball Ireland's comments on the provision of facilities. I take Deputy Kennedy's point on the capital spend and the fact that basketball claims to have enough capital funding.
Basketball is a great product, there is a desperate need for facilities and I am curious to learn how that gap might be bridged. I thank the delegates for their participation and the great work they do. It is only by perseverance that Basketball Ireland will connect beyond the committed few. The drama in which Glanmire won the final recently in the last throw, is an example of where that model can be used to sell basketball, because it was a fantastic day. The entire day was brilliant, so congratulations.
I thank Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon for their presentation. I shall confine my contribution to a few questions and comments.
Is the special participation initiative confined to outdoor sports? Are the delegates saying basketball got no money for increased participation, in the past? I find that amazing, to be honest, having been a teacher for many years and seen the basketball competitions and the manner in which Basketball Ireland structures them, allowing teams from schools to participate at the particular levels at which they can compete. Schools with 150 students can win all-Ireland competitions at their particular level and bring home the glory. The delegates are somewhat modest as regards it being an indoor game that may be played in all weathers. The participation levels are due to the manner in which the competitions are structured.
It has been mentioned that one of the inhibitory factors is club infrastructure. What is that at the minute? I have known children, including my own, who played basketball at school, but not afterwards. Does Basketball Ireland have development officers in the counties around the country? For 19 year old people, who have played in school, and finished second level, is there some way they might learn to set up a basketball club, or get coaching badges within their own communities?
I agree with some previous speakers on facilities. What surprised me is that Basketball Ireland agreed with the move from capital spending to current spending. I see a need for some facilities, particularly in rural towns, if not villages, around the country. A way must be found to help Basketball Ireland to key in to the soccer and GAA facilities. Many of these sporting organisations have halls and facilities. If the GAA at national level can open up Croke Park to the other sports, surely we can find a way, at local level to help basketball. As someone who is involved in the training of teams, it is good to change the emphasis at times and perhaps play some basketball, when the numbers at training might not be what they should be. As regards facilities, sometimes children who have represented their schools at all-Ireland level, cannot get the use of their sports halls at night-time, later on, when they go out into the community. We have to help Basketball Ireland to ensure that the facilities, as they exist, are at the disposal of those children when they become adults or are living back in their communities. The present situation is crazy and I see it in many villages and towns, where such facilities exist.
The drugs initiative was referred to and money being spent on youth cafés, which is good, too, as not everyone is involved in sport. Sometimes a grant of money to pay for a caretaker to open those clubs or schools at night might alleviate the problem. We are not talking about huge resources. I would like to hear the witnesses' answers to some of those questions, and their opinions on some of my suggestions. I thank them for the presentation.
Ms Debbie Massey
I thank the committee members for providing excellent feedback and for their interesting questions. If I make a couple of statements, I may address some of the specific queries on numbers and so. We have also taken note of some of these queries, so I hope we can address them all.
For a sport that has over 300,000 participants, basketball survives from year to year on a budget of approximately €2 million, half of which is Government funding. Three quarters of that Government funding comes from the Irish Sports Council's core funding, something which is provided to all national governing bodies. They are limited resources, as determined by the Department and by the overall budgets. A small percentage of €250,000 spread out over five years has been by received Basketball Ireland for the purposes of outdoor facilities. We use this money to buy vandal-resistant outdoor baskets. We have worked with local authorities and other interested parties to ascertain suitable sites where these baskets can be sunk into the ground and where we can organise programmes around them. While it would not be the natural inclination for an Irish basketball player to play basketball players outdoors, whatever the weather, that certainly is the case among the immigrant communities.
We are developing the community hoops programme and pursuing additional funding to roll out a greater number of those facilities all over the country, which would address the needs of the immigrant community and the local community. The current window on the capital grants allocations is about to close, so we have an application gone by courier to Fossa today. The committee's support for the community hoops application would be greatly appreciated. We are also looking to improve the National Basketball Arena and to implement phase 2 of its refurbishment, which would make it an excellent facility for the next 15 years. These are the two items for which we are seeking funding, and nothing more than that.
We have eight regional development officers employed by the organisation. They are funded, through Government provision, by the Irish Sports Council's women in sports fund with €250,000 per year. For a 32 county sport and wishing to transfer the 33,000 people referred to earlier into the club system, eight regional development officers could be usefully employed on the north side of Dublin on their own, never mind having them spread across the 32 counties. We would like to employ more regional development officers, local development officers and so on but we do not have the funds to do that. We are not saying that we do not want capital spending on basketball, but we believe that a sizeable percentage of capital spending could be moved to current spending, in order to enable more people to work on programme delivery in our sport and in other sports.
There are a few excellent facilities of local and regional standard, especially through the university links. We have the National Basketball Arena on the south side of Dublin and on the north side we use facilities such as DCU for basketball. Two of our super league teams are based there. UCC, UL, NUIG, UUJ, and QUB all offer similar facilities.
The Department has been working on a facilities audit at local, regional and national level. There is possibly a need to make sure that all regions in the country have a regional standard facility for indoor sports. We are close to achieving that already. It is all about access to the local facility. Deputy O'Mahony put his finger on it when he said that it is about trying to find a way to get those halls open after school hours so that people can use them. That would have been the finding of Ms Mary Davis and the increased citizenship group. Groups of people may want to go to choir practice, play cards or whatever, but the hall in the middle of the town is locked up for the night. The community may then not be able to come together, be it through sport or otherwise.
Our big challenge is to bring the 33,000 people referred to earlier into the club scene. We have a programme and a series of projects for growing clubs. We have rolled it out on a pilot basis, but we need money to grow clubs. A club needs seed funding for hiring halls if it is to start taking teams from local schools and building itself into a proper club. We have run the programme through each of our regional development officers, each of whom was given a target number of clubs to start from scratch and grow. We have done this using the funding we received from the Irish Sports Council. However, we have gone as far as we can go. We need the resources to put into the projects if we are to have a real impact and grow more clubs.
We stretch our funding to the limit and we get more work out of eight volunteers than maybe some sports organisations get out of 32. We are very big, but we do not have the permanent public profile and are not attractive enough for major sponsors. The last major sponsor of the sport was the ESB, which was excellent because a lot of cash went into the sport to deliver programmes, while the ESB raised the profile of the sport through its marketing activities. We have not been able to replace the ESB as a major sponsor.
There has been a strong focus on the three field sports and I wish them the best of luck. I just want a level playing pitch, given the numbers we have and our capacity to raise our own funds to put into the development of the sport. If we do not have that, then there must be some way to assist us more than those who do not need it as much as we do.
Mr. Aidan Gordon
Deputy Mitchell asked why it is submission for Government funding. We have put together a five year plan that will require a multi-annual view. Having analysed the allocation of funding for the last eight or nine years, we do not think that the existing mechanisms are capable of delivering a €12.5 million project over five years. To be fair to the Irish Sports Council, that is not the way it is constructed. We have a board meeting on 6 March and we have a plan to carry out all the good things that we said we would do. However, we cannot start on that journey without visibility as to what will happen. As the number of clubs are grown, we must make sure the facilities are lined up, as well as the referees and the coaches. There must be an integrated mix. The Irish Sports Council is not constructed to deal with that kind of a project, but it is not beyond the capacity of the Government's infrastructure to deal with it. In the overall scheme of things, €12.5 million is a tiny figure but it is what we need.
The other alternative for us is to continue to work within the envelope of €2 million, and we will achieve whatever we can. However, we cannot deliver the kind of growth that we articulated on our existing envelope.
It seems futile to make a submission to the Government for a programme that does not exist. To make the case to the Government is one thing, but to make a funding submission is different. Many other sporting organisations feel exactly the same way about multi-annual programmes, and representatives of the Irish Sports Council have spoken about the need for it. It seems to me that the whole thing will go into a bottom drawer. Perhaps that is where Basketball Ireland needs our help.
Mr. Aidan Gordon
Exactly. We recognise that changing the way things have been done requires a degree of consensus and a degree of understanding. We spent much time talking to Members of this House over the last 12 months. We spent time with the Department and with the relevant Ministers and this is another step for us on the journey. We passionately believe that we are at a crossroads in the development of sports in this country. The commercial pressures are such that sport in Ireland is beginning to move towards the American model. The money will be focused where the television rights are. The situation is getting more and more concentrated. We run the risk of having a country where there are just three big sports and everything else is trivial, which certainly will not help female participation rates. Those three sports are great sports; I have played them and do not have a problem with them. However, if one does not have a range of activities in the sporting and physical activity mix, that is not positive and other sports will never be able to attract the female numbers we are talking about.
One of the dilemmas in which sport in general finds itself relates to commercial pressure. To have significant money coming into a small number of organisations gives them a power base and a set of structures and infrastructure with which other organisations will never be able to compete. We have eight regional development officers in total whereas the FAI has eight in north County Dublin, although I say fair play to the FAI and I am not complaining. However, policy is important. If people believe it is vitally important as a matter of policy in Ireland to have diversity and mixture, we must begin to change things. The way policy has been constructed has served us well but sport is entering a new phase, particularly because of the commercial pressures, so things must change.
We believe multi-annual funding will have to be introduced or indoor sports will die. A question that many people have asked is whether we need more funding. While where are some infill requirements, we are asked why, before we spend any more capital, we do not open the facilities we have. Between them, the committee members have hit all the buttons in their comments. First, we need to open the schools, and the only issues in this regard are getting caretakers and getting insurance. Surely it is not beyond the ken of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Department of Education and Science to sort that out. This would free up many hours, and the use of those facilities alone would get us a year or 18 months into our plan.
The other big dilemma concerns Government-funded facilities. As there is no funding to help them with running costs, they charge top dollar for people to use the facilities. It is no trouble to a group of ten lads playing indoor football to pay €100 or €150 an hour if they all throw in €10 or €15. However, a group of ten or 11 year old children could not afford those rates. On the facilities side, it is a question of opening the facilities we have. We need to find a way of subsidising or funding facilities for clubs in their growth phase at the start, because it is just too much money--
May I interrupt? The problem is not at the age of ten or 11, when children are playing basketball in the schools. The problem is at the age of the 18 when a student leaves secondary school and goes to third level or gets a job and suddenly stops playing. In any town where there are five schools that participated in schools basketball, why is there not some small percentage of volunteers, as with the GAA and soccer clubs? For example, a manager decides to set up, say, Swords basketball club and takes it by the scruff of the neck. They are a new club, they get a panel of 11 and they hire the local facility.
I agree that the insurance excuse with regard to schools is an issue we should deal with. As I come from an insurance background and have worked on boards of management of schools, I know it is an excuse because they do not want to bother and is not a genuine reason. I am sure Basketball Ireland has adequate public liability insurance with indemnity for any school in the country. This issue is one we could force through one mechanism or another.
To come back to the main point, Basketball Ireland needs people who have left school but are still half interested to decide together to form a club and take it on from there. If that is achieved, Basketball Ireland will be in a better position to go to Government and explain it has 320,000 people playing as adults rather than as children.
Ms Debbie Massey
That is the grow club programme and is what we are endeavouring to do at local level, county by county.
Deputy Buttimer asked on the field sports participation fund. That fund was originally called the increased participation fund but it was then changed to its current title. The sports that have availed of it between 2001 and 2006 are the sports that have been permitted to avail of it, namely, the three field sports. I understand that in 2007 camogie received some allocation from that fund, which would be a first. Our point is that the only funding we receive is the core funding. There is no other fund for us to dip into so we are asking that a fund be created, called the indoor participation fund, to balance that.
Is that funded through the sports council?
Ms Debbie Massey
It is funded through the sports council but I understand it is linked to the Department.
Mr. Aidan Gordon
It is a slightly different mechanism.
Ms Debbie Massey
In the five year period from 2001 to 2006, €42.5 million has been paid to those three sports.
Mr. Aidan Gordon
Not just wearing my basketball hat, having spent €750 million in building bricks and mortar, and having commissioned research from organisations such as the ESRI, we are told in black and white, day in, day out, that if we want to grow participation, we need to move funding to the current side to do whatever is needed. The Deputy is correct with regard to having people on the ground. However, whatever the range of needs and irrespective of the mix, we have been consistently told since 2004 that, on the one hand, we have a policy that says grow participation and, on the other, we are not using the advice we have, which is to move funding from capital to current spending. That is silly.
If I was in the Department of Finance and understood the dynamics around current spending, and knew we were going to get locked in, it should be possible for me to construct a series of mechanisms so that, for example, every year 10% of what would have been capital spending would go into current sports to grow participation. This year that 10% figure would have been €5.7 million. We have put mechanisms in place and we would be quite happy, as a sport, to co-operate to ensure this happens. We will not lock ourselves into permanent head counts or anything else. In big years, we have spent €80 million on capital spending, 10% of which would be €8 million. A mere 10% focused on the indoor sports that have particular problems, and targeted very carefully on growing participation, could deal with this problem.
In the overall scheme, this is not beyond our ken to achieve. However, it requires us to break out of some of the moulds and models we are currently in. They have served us well up to now but we do not believe they will serve us well in the future. It is time to act. There are very straightforward and simple things that can be done.
By the way, there is nothing we have said to the committee that we have not said to others, such as the Irish Sports Council, the Minister and the Department. It is a consistent message and, while we recognise it may take time for people to reconstruct their views, we want to keep advocating this view because we believe passionately in it.
On Deputy Kennedy's point regarding the club development structure, it is pivotal to basketball's development that Basketball Ireland has a proactive development programme for its clubs. I taught in Ballincollig community school, where perhaps 45 boys and 45 girls played basketball. If there is a fall-off and there is no active club in an area, there is a gap that has not been filled. I go back to Deputy Kennedy's point that Basketball Ireland needs to create that structure. If the Glanmires of this world can do it, there is no reason Bishopstown, Ballyphehane or Mayfield or anywhere else cannot do it also.
On the question of television rights and RTE, I take Mr. Gordon's point on the dilution of some sports compared to the massive coverage and publicity for others. Has Basketball Ireland plans to rectify the position on sponsorship? Mr. Gordon is correct that the ESB had a very good advertising campaign as part of its sponsorship programme.
Ms Debbie Massey
We are in the middle of that process. We have been doing a great deal of work with the Irish Sports Council and an organisation called Onside Sponsorship, which was engaged by the Irish Sports Council. With our commercial and marketing director now in place, we have a go-to-market product, as they say in the trade, that is second to none. It takes time to go through the process of making a case to various potential major sponsors but we have some live cases open at present and we hope we will deliver on sponsorship in the next 12 months. The story we have to tell about our sport is fine-tuned. It is both factual and exciting for a potential sponsor who wishes to get involved.
Deputy Upton asked whether we would deliver on additional funding, were we to receive it. We have produced a document that deals with our strategic plan and funding requirements for the next five years, a copy of which is available for each member. There is a series of programmes and each programme comprises a series of projects. These programmes and projects are what will cost €12 million over a five-year period. However, this is a small annual investment to increase the number of participants by between 30,000 and 50,000. The mechanism underlying the model we are using is wholly accountable. We can show our starting point and must prove growth in a 12-month period through our membership database. Consequently we can prove where we have made improvements and increased participation to our paymasters, be it the Irish Sports Council or whoever. If something falls down or is not achieved correctly, we can find a way to connect it.
I will make a final point on an issue, mentioned by Deputy White, that is to the disadvantage of the sport of basketball. I refer to the technical numbers required in the sport. As basketball is a highly technical heavy sport, one requires an absolute minimum of three officials to play a game. While one requires two coaches and a referee at a minimum, ideally one would have someone to run the table and keep the scores, two referees and a coach on each team. Before a bunch of ten or 11 year old children can play a game of basketball, one requires three adults in the room. This is unlike a field sport in which one can proceed with one adult and four jumpers for goalposts. People must be trained to fill the technical roles to match the number of children's teams we wish to develop. This is all part of the plan and has been specified to the last in respect of the projects we wish to deliver. However, we cannot deliver it without investment. We are calling it investment because we are prepared to demonstrate progress and to answer for the lack of progress.
I thank Ms Massey and Mr. Gordon for their presentation and comprehensive report on the difficulties they perceive themselves to be facing and the shortcomings they have outlined.