Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 May 2010

Gas Industry Issues: Discussion with Bord Gáis

I welcome Mr. John Mullins, chief executive officer, and Mr. David Bunworth, managing director of energy supply, from Bord Gáis.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. John Mullins

I thank the committee for inviting us to discuss the three main issues contained in the letter from Ms Doran, namely, the events and aftermath of a laptop theft in June 2009, the Big Switch campaign, and an outlook on gas and electricity prices, which interests constituents of the committee members. I invite Mr. David Bunworth to address the laptop theft and I will speak on the findings and recommendations of the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner and the actions taken by Bord Gáis since. I will also provide an update on the current status of information and data security and protection processes in the company.

Mr. David Bunworth

In the early hours of Friday, 5 June 2009 a break-in took place at a building located 100 yards from our head office in Joyce's Court, Dublin. We had taken these offices as short-term accommodation to cater for the rapid expansion arising from the Big Switch campaign to move into the electricity market. We discovered four laptops were stolen and immediately reported the theft to the Garda Síochána. Later in the day we telephoned the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner and informed the office of the theft. Contrary to a company directive, three of the machines were unencrypted and as the investigation progressed and we mirrored the laptops from our ICT department it became clear that a significant volume of customer data was contained on one of them. We immediately set up a project team to undertake the task of identifying and recreating the data contained on this laptop. This was a very extensive purge, requiring the identification of 800 files. It was not a clean file. We spent the next 12 days identifying every name, address and detail of every customer that contacted us with bank account details and credit card numbers. We engaged in constant contact with the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner which conducted an investigation on 15 June. We co-operated fully with that office on the investigation. Early in the week commencing 15 June, we were satisfied that all the consumer data on the laptop had been identified and recreated properly. As a consequence, we then finalised arrangements with the Irish Banking Federation to enable it to implement agreed security measures with regard to the individual bank accounts. Bord Gáis then made a public announcement on the incident on 17 June and two days later started the process of issuing letters to 93,000 customers finally identified as affected by the theft of the laptop.

The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner, ODPC, published its report on the incident in late October 2009. Bord Gáis Energy accepted the commissioner's findings and recommendations without reservation in its letter of response and outlined the measures and actions it had taken to address the issues concerned.

Mr. John Mullins

I would like to point out that since I joined the company as chief executive in December 2007, I had made it clear to the organisation that all laptops in the organisation should be encrypted. Reports coming to me as of February 2009 stated that three laptops were unencrypted and that those three belonged to ladies on maternity leave who had no customer service interaction. Therefore, there was an issue in terms of the reporting on the newer laptops brought in with the Big Switch campaign. That was a lapse for which we take full responsibility.

With regard to the findings of the ODPC and the actions undertaken by Bord Gáis, the commissioner found that appropriate security measures were not in place on the laptop. Bord Gáis took action on this and completed a programme of encryption of all laptops and all desktop computers by 31 July 2009. This measure continues in force. The commissioner found that appropriate measures were not in place on the sales management system to ensure "need to know" access to personal data among approved users. A strict regime of access to customer data on a "needs only" basis has now been fully implemented and is controlled by central IT. It was also found personal data was retained on the laptop for longer than was justifiable. A formal acceptable usage policy and acceptable usage agreement has been implemented throughout the company and a mandatory training awareness programme for all staff — more than 1,035 staff — has taken place. This training applies to all third parties also, including FEXCO, Conduit and other agencies that work on our behalf. It is also part of an ongoing process of induction for all new recruits. We have also instigated a number of new procedures for movers, joiners and leavers within the organisation.

The ODPC made a number of recommendations and action has been taken on these by Bord Gáis. It recommended an immediate review of all access levels to personal data and systems and that an effective system be put in place for granting, reviewing and removing access. We have completed an examination of all user access in the organisation and access on an "essential business only" regime has been implemented and management and control of user access has been placed with the central IT function. The second recommendation was that an appropriate standing governance structure be put in place. We have made the greatest changes in the organisation in this regard. There have also been significant personnel and structural changes in the organisation as a result of this incident. Committee members will understand that when a chief executive who understands everything is in order finds out an incident such as this can happen, action must be taken. An information security committee was established and two additional IT security managers appointed. Members may know we have two sides to our business, networks and energy. We now have two IT security managers appointed to both of those areas. We have also appointed an information risk officer who reports directly, outside of the IT function, to the head of internal audit. This is state-of-the-art governance in accordance with the Data Protection Commission and external consultants. All information security and data protection policies have been fully reviewed and updated. It is mandatory, as mentioned earlier, for all staff to sign the acceptable usage policy and any deviation from that policy is a serious disciplinary matter in our organisation.

It has been made abundantly clear to all staff that personal data should not be downloaded to local drives and should be maintained on networked systems for any use considered appropriate. In the incident in question, one of the four laptops was compromised. The individual involved was a data analyst who was using intermediate files, which are test files for programming rather than a full list database. One could not say the data actually made full sense. It was 834 files of test data which were required for the validation process. The data were not on the C drive but on a map drive which communicates with a central network server. The oversight was that they were being mapped back onto the laptop. Therefore, one would have to have delved into the laptop to find these data files. It was not as straightforward as instant access on the C drive. However, we still found it appropriate to liaise with the Data Protection Commissioner on the issue. We have taken action and instigated a comprehensive mandatory information security and awareness training programme for all staff and third parties and implemented an acceptable usage policy and agreement.

The measures set out represent some of the key steps taken by Bord Gáis to date. The company is well advanced in developing and implementing a best-in-class architecture for information security and data protection. An information security programme office has been established, a standing information security committee has been put in place, we have new policies on information security and data protection, which also applies to our third party contractors, we have a system in place for continuous assessment of risk, which reports to me monthly — as members will understand, I have a serious interest in this area as a result of this management lapse — and we have put in place a new information security organisation.

The break-in at the Bord Gáis premises on 5 June 2009 led to the potential exposure of personal data of a substantial number of our customers. It is fortunate that no case has arisen where such data have been exposed and none of our customers has suffered as a consequence. The incident brought to the fore inadequacies in the Bord Gáis systems and procedures and the company treated these with the utmost gravity from the outset. We are confident the comprehensive regime on information security and data protection now implemented will ensure an incident of this kind will not recur.

The launch of the Big Switch campaign, which took place on 18 February 2009, represented a fundamental step in the fulfilment of the Bord Gáis strategy I set about implementing from the time of my appointment in late 2007. The first pillar of our strategy was to be the leading energy company that would introduce dual fuel offerings to more than 1 million customers. This was to be achieved over five years, but we have achieved it in two years. We aim to provide a best-in-class customer service. Last year Bord Gáis received five international customer service awards across all sectors between Britain and Ireland for the level of customer service it offers customers, both at network and energy level. We set about to acquire and develop an electricity generation portfolio and to integrate our supply business in the North and the South. We are well advanced in that regard.

The second pillar of the strategy is investment for sustainable balance sheet growth. When I joined the company, it had a very healthy balance sheet. It still has that and we are A-minus rated by Standard & Poor's and A2 rated by Moody's. These ratings were reconfirmed in the past week. We have invested significantly in electricity and gas asset investments in Ireland. For example, over the next five years we will spend twice as much on wind farms as on gas pipelines. That is because we are at the stage of the law of diminishing returns with respect to gas pipelines here, in terms of traversing rural lands at €1 million per kilometre for transmission. We have leveraged our balance sheet strength and have entered partnerships of complementary competencies. For example, we are supporting the security of supply of gas in this country through a partnership with GDF Suez of France and Belgium on the development of a £250 million sterling salt cavern gas storage facility in Larne, County Antrim, which will service the whole island. We are making good progress on the size mix analysis for that project. We also established a separate investments division when I joined Bord Gáis. There were two people employed in that area then but we now have more than 100 people employed. Since I joined the organisation, more than 500 new people have been employed, directly and indirectly, by Bord Gáis.

The third pillar of our strategy is based on outperforming regulatory targets. We have outperformed the regulatory expectations in terms of operating cost, capital cost, extension of our gas network and the quality of our networks. We invested €170 million over the past four years and now have the most modern gas network in Europe and no longer have any cast iron network in Dublin. The cast iron network in Dublin has been fully replaced. This was vital from the safety point of view. We have exceeded the terms of our customer charter requirements. The international awards we have received from the Customer Contact Association, CCA, and the Contact Centre Management Association, CCMA, are the best testament to the quality of the service we provide.

On influencing market arrangements, the committee may have heard my views on Corrib and on security of gas supply. I would like to repeat those views. The Corrib gas project is a matter of sovereign gas security, in terms of molecular gas, which will ensure we have indigenous gas available for this market. We will continue to try to influence that agenda.

As stated, the Big Switch campaign was launched on 18 February 2009. The fundamentals are simple. First, there is no contract. We convened focus groups in rural and urban areas to discover what people wanted in the context of choice. We offered a double digit discount on existing rates. It was a simple proposition and easy to switch. The website, TheBigSwitch.ie, accounted for 50% of the total number of switchers we attracted. That is a phenomenal development and provides an indication of the importance of e-channels. We initiated a strong marketing campaign, with well organised operational support.

Bord Gáis Éireann is now the largest dual-fuel supplier in the country. We have some 200,000 dual-fuel customers. It is well over one year into the campaign and we are still taking on approximately 950 new electricity customers every day. The company now has over 1 million gas and electricity customers on the island. We launched a gas choice facility in Belfast which has been well received by SME and industrial customers in the city in recent times.

There has been a great deal of criticism at this committee and in the Dáil and the Seanad regarding the level of liberalisation in the Irish electricity market. As a result of the Big Switch campaign, Ireland has moved from being the 18th most liberalised electricity market in the world to being the second most liberalised. The campaign has actually set in motion a process towards the creation of competition in the market. We have had the highest switching rate per capita in the world during the past 12 months. Bord Gáis Éireann certainly played a role in that regard.

Real competition in the energy market is now a reality. It is noticeable that many other sectors — telecommunications, insurance, etc. — have followed our lead and that there are many advertisements on television and radio which encourage people to make the switch. We commenced a particular conditioning of the market. In the current environment people are seeking value and exemplary service.

The CER recently set out a roadmap for the deregulation of the electricity market. We welcome the fact that there are rules, but we may not have been happy about the fact that the ESB had a 60% share of the market. This still represents an element of dominance. I say this in the context of the fact that we are losing customers in the gas market. I also take the view that there might be a 60% dominant share in that market. A figure of 50% might have been more appropriate. In that context, I have previously put forward the analogy of a grocery store in which bread produced by the person who owns six of the eight most efficient bread factories is sold. Members of this and other committees might be quite concerned about the competition aspects to which this would give rise.

We welcome the intensification of competition in the gas market.

Is it possible for Mr. Mullins to relate his remarks to the position the ESB held ten years ago?

Mr. John Mullins

In the context of generation, ten years ago the ESB would have had approximately 85% of the market.

What about its competitiveness in European terms?

Mr. John Mullins

As the Senator is well aware, I worked for the ESB at the time and there was direct control of tariffs. I recall a period of 12 years in which the company did not receive a price increase. To create competition, the Houses of the Oireachtas brought forward the relevant regulations. As members are aware, the influences in this regard are not just Irish, they are also European. I accept that there has been great movement. However, we have further to go.

Competition in the gas market has intensified, particularly with the entry of Airtricity. We welcome that development. Flogas is already involved in the market and we understand the ESB may also enter it later in the year. That is good for customers because it provides choice. People can seek the best value, not only in price but also in the context of exemplary service.

There are two aspects to the outlook for the future. Members are aware that I have not been afraid to offer a view on the outlook for gas and electricity prices. The supply of gas worldwide has improved immensely, particularly in the light of the use of horizontal drilling technology for shale gas and unconventional sources of gas. Based on the use of this new technology, the American market now has 100 years of gas reserves. That is a welcome development, but it will have an impact on world gas prices.

In the past year there has been a move away from the historical linkage between gas and oil prices, from approximately 90% to in the region of 60%. This means there is a real differential between gas, as an economic product, and oil prices. We believe this trend will continue. There is a glut on the supply side. Liquefied natural gas is being brought to three new facilities in Britain and will ultimately be supplied to Ireland via our interconnectors. In conjunction with, it is hoped, the arrival of gas from the Corrib gas field, access to this cheaper form of fossil fuel will place Ireland in a very good position from a supply perspective.

In the context of what I stated about Bord Gáis Éireann spending twice as much on wind farms as on gas pipelines, it is important that gas is used as a bridging fuel as we move towards a low carbon economy. As members are aware, it will not be possible to bring all of the renewables on stream overnight. It will take ten to 15 years of hard graft, both onshore and offshore, to harness the potential of renewables.

We suffered demand destruction to a level of approximately 6% in respect of electricity and gas last year. It will be 2013 or 2014 before the level of demand for gas and electricity returns to the peaks that obtained in 2008. That is the cliff edge over which we recently looked from the point of view of demand. Our experience in this regard has been mirrored across Europe. In Spain the level of demand destruction was 10%. This means there is less demand for a much larger supply of gas. As a result, the environment for gas supplies is benign, which is good news.

We have reduced the price of gas on three occasions in the past year. Many state the position in Britain is much better. It is a case that the grass is always greener elsewhere. During the period in which we provided for three price reductions, the six suppliers in Britain only supplied one. That happened in December. The level of profits of the supply companies in Britain far exceeded the level made by Irish supply companies in the same period. The six British suppliers moved in contango on one occasion last year and introduced reductions of between 4% and 7%. Bord Gáis Éireann reduced its prices by a total of 25% in the same period under the same conditions.

In regulatory terms, we are becoming more mature and there has been good movement in respect of competition in the electricity market. We are moving towards a fully liberalised electricity market. Within two years the gas market will be fully liberalised and there will be new entrants coming in. We look forward to holding a share of the domestic gas market that will be below 60% because this will encourage real competition.

There has been a great deal of discussion about energy prices. However, the facts speak for themselves. Gas prices here are lower than the EU average. In the residential sector they are as much as 15% lower than the average. This fact is underpinned by the figures provided by EUROSTAT. We welcome the fact that the domestic gas market is open to new entrants. As the chief executive of the networks company which facilitates the switching of gas customers to other businesses, I can state we have all of the necessary systems in place to facilitate, as was the case in respect of the supply of electricity, ease of switching.

I thank Mr. Mullins.

I welcome Mr. Mullins and Mr. Bunworth and thank them for their presentation. They have, to a large extent, answered many of the questions that have arisen and eased concerns with regard to what has happened. Mr. Mullins spoke with great gusto about energy matters and covered a wide range of topics. I wish him and Bord Gáis Éireann continued success.

There were two breaches of security at Bord Gáis Éireann: the first relates to a break-in at its premises, while the second relates to the information contained on one of the stolen laptops. How did this happen and why did the company deal in such a haphazard manner with information on so many customers? This matter would have been a source of great concern for the customers to whom I refer. I welcome the measures the company has taken to prevent this happening again in the future.

Our guests have stated none of the company's customers suffered as a consequence of what happened. I do not know if the stolen laptops were recovered. However, they would have contained details relating to many customer bank accounts, credit card accounts, etc. Some of the customers may not have changed their details in the interim. What assurances can our guests provide that the information to which I refer will not fall into the wrong hands and lead to customers suffering the consequences in the future? This issue is not over yet. What assurances can Bord Gáis give the people affected? I presume it has improved security at its headquarters, but my main aim is to ensure the company can assure the 93,000 customers affected that they need have no concerns that their information will be used maliciously in the future.

Bord Gáis has covered a range of issues. With regard to the Big Switch campaign, has it not come about as a consequence of the policy of the Commission on Energy Regulation? The ESB had a monopoly, but only when Bord Gáis and Airtricity reach a competitive figure of a 40% share of the market will it be liberalised. Is there a danger that there will be a big switch back to the ESB from Bord Gáis when this happens? We may be as close as a couple of months from that position. Is there a danger that there will be a switch back when the ESB is allowed compete with Bord Gáis and drop its prices? Currently, it is prevented from doing so. As a consequence, Bord Gáis was in a position to reduce its prices by the various percentages mentioned to attract customers. Is Bord Gáis concerned about the change or that there will be a big switch back? What is its policy on future pricing? It appears to be in a good position and Mr. Mullins seems to have done excellent work with the company. Will it be in a position to compete with such a threat?

Mr. Mullins referred to the future of wind energy production and I understand Bord Gáis has bought SWS Wind Farms Limited. In County Mayo, where planning permission was granted for a huge wind farm, that farm had difficulty in securing a connection to the national grid. Apparently, it can take seven years to be connected. Perhaps Bord Gáis is in a position to seek connectivity from those already in the queue, but I would like to hear its comments on the issue. We have a wind energy policy and many want to become involved in the sector, but it does not seem possible to secure a connection to the grid. One has to queue and may have to wait seven, eight or nine years. What is the position of Bord Gáis in this regard?

Mr. Mullins suggested Bord Gáis would invest twice as much in wind energy production as in gas pipelines. It has, once again, displayed a reluctance to invest in a natural gas pipeline in north Tipperary where all of the major towns have been bypassed for investment, despite the compelling argument made by various people in favour of linking Callan, for example, in County Kilkenny, Thurles in north Tipperary and Tipperary town. Once again, north Tipperary has been overlooked. I am concerned about this. Was there undue influence exerted by someone in that regard? Looking at the matter from a political viewpoint, one wonders why, with a Minister of State based in Tipperary town, the area has been overlooked again for development.

I appreciate the spirited presentation made and have no problems with regard to the general outlook. However, I would like to outline the facts regarding the ESB.

Before the regulatory system was put in place, the ESB was supplying electricity with the second lowest prices in Europe, but because of the restraints placed on it in the interests of having competition in a more open market, with good reason, it is not allowed to compete until its market share has been reduced to 60%. The questions raised by Deputy Coonan will then be important. I do not doubt the ability of Bord Gáis to hold onto its customers. That is not the issue, but I have had some sympathy for the ESB in the past while. Bord Gáis managers must often have smiled when they saw Members of the Oireachtas having a go at the ESB because of its high prices, without ever bothering to look at the legislation we had put in place to prevent it from reducing its prices, but that is how politics works.

On the stolen data, were data relating to credit cards details stolen? At the time of the theft did Bord Gáis retain full credit card numbers or just the last four digits? I understand it only kept the last four digits. Recently, however, I came across an instance where this was not the case. I am glad, therefore, that people's credit card information is safe because only the last four digits were retained.

Internal audit was mentioned as a governance issue, but I am not clear on how that works. Does the internal audit unit engage in a stress test of the process as opposed to policies? Has Bord Gáis received reports from its internal audit unit on such testing of the credit data procedure? Has it at any stage considered using cloud computing as a method to ensure nothing will be left on laptops? In other words, people would go on-line and obtain the information they need and the information would not be kept on their laptops. What is the position of Bord Gáis in that regard? It seems to provide a solution to the problem for the long term.

Mr. Mullins mentioned the Corrib gas field. I appreciate his views in that regard. I agree with him on the need for energy independence and for supplies from the Corrib gas field to come on line. I am aware that in the pipeline there is space for the inclusion of fibre optic cable and other cables that could be used, for example, to deliver broadband services to the west. Why has Bord Gáis not placed a fibre optic cable in the pipeline? If it does do so eventually, will it then be able to enter the business of selling broadband services throughout the country? I would like to hear not just the facts but also Mr. Mullins views on the matter. He has mentioned the company with which Bord Gáis has gone into business, but its name does not appear in his script.

Mr. John Mullins

It is Gaz de France.

Does Bord Gáis have a relationship withthe two new great European empires, Veolia and Electricité de France? If so, what relationship does it have with these two self-aggrandising huge empires which are taking over the world?

What wind energy storage capacity does Bord Gáis have? What plans does it have for the times when it cannot sell it? Mr. Mullins did not mention anything other than gas supplies storage.

With regard to the development of its wind farms, is Bord Gáis in a position to use the new technology available, the Proven system, which can continue to operate, no matter what is the strength of the wind? Has the technology for larger wind farms been developed to a point where we can harness the power of the wind whenever it is blowing, rather than only when it is blowing above a certain speed?

Deputy Coonan commented on the fact that one could buy grid space from others in the queue. Is it not time we found a solution to the problem of connection to the grid being blocked by persons who have no intention of building a wind farm but who have simply taken a place in the queue in order that they can sell their position to companies such Bord Gáis? Is it not time we introduced legislation to cope with this nonsense?

I ask the delegates to please excuse me if I have to leave during their responses which I will check in the Official Report.

Mr. John Mullins

I can respond first to Senator O'Toole and then to Deputy Coonan.

I will start with the point made about electricity being supplied at the second cheapest rates. We still have some very old plants in our system. Until they are decommissioned, electricity prices will remain high. In general, the infrastructure in the ESB's portfolio is very old. As a result and even from a cost-competitive perspective, the ESB will struggle to compete with the plant in Whitegate which I hope members will visit next month. That plant will have an efficiency rating of 58%, while Moneypoint and the older ESB plants from the 1970s would have ratings of between 30% and 40%. Current technology is very different from that which was put in place in the 1960s and 1970s.

There is the opportunity to decommission plants because there has been demand destruction. In the light of the good capacity margins, it may be possible to decommission older plants and put in place a better mix of infrastructure in the very near future. The latter would be allied with the east-west interconnector in place between Britain and Ireland. The world has changed immensely in the past ten years and the plants to which I refer are that much older and have become less reliable.

When I took up my position, I provided for an internal audit assessment of all of the company's IT security measures. In May 2008 I made an order that all laptops be encrypted. A report I subsequently received indicated that, with the exception of three, all laptops were encrypted. Those three laptops did not contain details relating to any area of customer service. A dedicated internal audit officer for IT security and risk has been appointed to review all IT security procedures and processes on a daily basis.

What is an internal audit officer for IT security? Is he or she responsible for nothing other than matters relating to IT security?

Mr. John Mullins

The officer does nothing else.

Mr. John Mullins

It is not. Very large companies have such officers. We have 1 million customers and receive 25,000 telephone calls every year about gas leaks, only 40% of which actually relate to real gas leaks. We are obliged to deal with all of the data to which this gives rise.

Is the internal audit officer for IT security an employee of the company or is he or she from outside?

Mr. John Mullins

An employee. We have appointed three people as internal audit officers for IT security.

Are they empowered to deal directly with the external and internal auditors?

Mr. John Mullins

They have absolute governance rights. The internal audit section reports directly to me and the risk committee.

One of the difficulties we have with the use of netbooks is that our field operatives cannot obtain access to broadband at many locations. In the context of the updating of information from a transmission asset point of view, we would not have a difficulty in using netbooks if there was universal access to broadband in all rural areas. This is an issue to which we are giving consideration.

Satellite broadband is available in every part of the country.

Mr. John Mullins

I understand that. At times, however, our operatives have difficulties in accessing satellite broadband. We are considering using netbooks in our offices. That is a matter on which we are moving forward.

We have a relationship with EDF and Veolia. As the Senator may be aware, Veolia, in conjunction with Dalkia, is active here. EDF is a state company and there is a big state interest in GDF Suez. The French have been extremely successful in retaining their stake in utilities across Europe.

Electricity storage is extremely difficult to achieve. Battery and pump storage are the two options. I arranged for an expert from the United States to address a group of academics and me on this subject on Monday last. It is extremely difficult and not commercially viable to provide for battery storage adjacent to a wind farm. It would be easier to close the wind farm than it would be to put in place a battery storage facility. Work is continuing, but we have a long way to go.

What is Mr. Mullins's view on the spirit of Ireland project?

Mr. John Mullins

Massive political support is required for the Spirit of Ireland project. As I informed an interparliamentary group, the sooner we proceed with further interconnection with Britain and France, the better it will be from the point of view of electricity generation. As the Senator well knows, we have under-invested in the grid.

We are offering power purchase agreements to wind farms. We have signed 150 MW worth of such agreements in the past year. We are in business and if the owner of a wind farm is interested in obtaining a 15-year contract, we will talk to him or her. We will continue to offer such contracts and support those to whom they are awarded.

Senator O'Toole's final question was related to connections to the grid. I agree that there are projects which do not have a chance of obtaining finance but which are retaining positions in the stack. A holistic and pragmatic assessment must be carried out to identify the projects most likely to reach was is termed "financial close". On that basis, it would then be possible to consider the reprioritisation of the grid. There has not really been much of a change in the network since I was first involved with the grid 20 years ago. We have under-invested in the electricity grid. When one considers what happened with the gas grid during the same period, there is no comparison. We need an export-ready grid to bring all of the renewables on line and the attendant jobs into the economy. I do not refer here to jobs in Bord Gáis Éireann, the ESB or Airtricity but to jobs in the construction industry.

I hope Deputy Coonan will agree that Bord Gáis Éireann does not operate in a haphazard way. I issued an instruction that all laptops were to be encrypted and received a report to the effect that they had all been encrypted. It so happened that a number of them——

I used the word "haphazard" in its mildest sense in the placing of information on 97,000 customers on computers that were being transported around the city or elsewhere.

Mr. John Mullins

The individual involved was not aware that, when the information was stored on the computer's F drive, it was also being mapped onto the local drive. The information was not on the C drive, rather it was on a shared drive. The data analyst in question was not aware that the data contained in the 834 files were mapped into a deep recess of the computer's hard disk. That was the problem.

As a result of the theft of Bord Gáis Éireann laptops, other companies were obliged to take immediate action to encrypt their computers and databases. Bord Gáis Éireann was not the only company affected.

Mr. John Mullins

I accept that. Our reputation was on the line at the time. What happened was certainly a wake-up call for everyone in the sector. In our case, one person was working with 834 files and of the opinion that they were only contained on the network. It was only when we carried out the mapping exercise on the drive that it emerged that they were also contained elsewhere. The person involved should have stored the files on a different drive.

Is there any evidence of people trying to use the information contained on the laptop in question?

Mr. John Mullins

There is no evidence of anyone trying to use it. Mr. Bunworth spoke to the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner, ODPC, about incidents similar to that which occurred in our case.

Mr. David Bunworth

We had many conversations with the ODPC. There were a number of other incidents prior to the one relating to Bord Gáis Éireann. For example, one of the leading financial institutions lost a laptop containing a considerable amount of data. I have no intention of trivialising the matter, but the credit cards involved were probably more secure than anyone thought because the numbers were not fully identifiable. The banks have indicated that even though there were three or four incidents preceding the one involving Bord Gáis Éireann, there were no intrusions into anyone's accounts. It is difficult when people hear that their details are contained on stolen or lost laptops. The details involved were so difficult to find that anyone attempting to access them would have spent a great deal of time trying to do so. Once it emerged that the information was contained on the laptop's hard drive, we considered it necessary to reveal that fact to the ODCP. From its point of view, there is no evidence that there have been any intrusions into people's accounts. In the letters we sent out we assured customers that we would recompense them if there were verifiable intrusions into their accounts by other parties. We have not been obliged to do so to date.

Has Bord Gáis Éireann engaged in a follow-up exercise with the customers affected? I have met people who are concerned that data relating to them are still missing and that something may happen to them or their families in the future as a result. The data involved contain personal and other details such as home addresses.

Mr. John Mullins

It emerged from discussions we had with the Garda that this type of occurrence was not unique. Laptops are stolen every day as a result of the levels of crime that obtain. It just so happens that the crime rate in Dublin 1 is higher than those which obtain in most other areas of the country. A number of other and even more serious incidents involving Bord Gáis Éireann have occurred in the area. For example, a number of our staff have been physically attacked. This is a major source of concern and a health and safety issue for our employees. The attacks have all taken place since last June.

I appreciate that. However, is the company in a position to provide customers with a cast-iron assurance in respect of data relating to them?

Mr. John Mullins

The advice we have received from the Garda is that this was an opportunistic burglary. The premises in question was not the only one burgled by the same individuals on the evening in question. It is not the case, therefore, that someone specifically entered the Bord Gáis building looking for data as if it was a financial institution. It was an opportunistic burglary. The general view of Garda intelligence on what happens to these machines is that in cases of this nature the laptops are generally wiped and sold on Moore Street or Thomas Street.

Were any of the computers recovered?

Mr. John Mullins

No, but we will recover them because at some stage something will happen to the machines and Dell will be contacted. Dell is fully aware of the serial numbers of the machines in question. While they have not done so as yet, they will turn up.

On Mr. Bunworth's point on insurance, I cannot give 100% assurance. In terms of information security, Facebook and Twitter accounts have been hacked recently, as have other institutions right across the board. Every company and governmental institution is in a state of constant defence against targeted information terrorism. We must deal with this issue collectively and on a daily basis. All I can give members today is the assurance that we have in place the best state-of-the-art systems to protect our customers from such assaults, whether they are physical or cyber attacks. This is a wider area of concentration and a serious issue. As society becomes more dependent on information transfer and e-commerce, the issue becomes much larger and warrants a wider debate.

There is a major obligation on us all.

Mr. John Mullins

Yes. Bord Gáis has stepped up to the plate in that regard. That is the most important message I can give.

I will address the Big Switch policy and the issue of power plants. Bord Gáis is building the plant at Whitegate which will be 58% thermally efficient and produce sufficient electricity for 400,000 customers. That is more or less the position at this stage. The Whitegate plant will produce among the cheapest forms of electricity in the country.

To address Senator O'Toole, the whole portfolio is more expensive. With the SWS Energy plants providing 218 MW and up to 800 MW being provided by wind farms in the next five years, Bord Gáis will provide the cheapest form of energy for customers across the country, from Donegal to Cork and Galway to Dublin.

Will we have services for customers in County Tipperary?

Mr. John Mullins

We will discuss the service we provide for customers in County Tipperary. Certainly, from the point of view of electricity, many in County Tipperary, south riding and north riding, have joined the Big Switch. We are delighted they have done so and hope to hold on to them. I would also like to have more dual-fuel customers in County Tipperary. However, the economic downturn has not helped us. Ultimately, Bord Gáis does not make the decision as to which towns will receive a connection. Tipperary town has benefited from a connection recently, but only four of 73 towns we studied qualified for connection under the economic assessment. Thurles and Callan were not far off the mark.

This issue should be addressed in a wider debate on the future of gas supplies versus oil supplies. The former has a lower carbon intensity than the latter. Perhaps as part of the overall policy discussion, consideration will be given to extending the gas network and adopting positive discrimination measures towards resources that are better available to the county in the context of the Corrib pipeline, the LNG plants in Britain and the carbon intensity of gas as opposed to oil. I do not know if we will secure incremental support, through the Commission for Energy Regulation, for rolling out a gas supply to Thurles, Roscrea, Nenagh and other locations in members' constituencies.

Is Mr. Mullins saying the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, is from Tipperary town did not have a bearing on the decision to provide a gas connection to the town?

Mr. John Mullins

It had absolutely no bearing on the matter.

There is a compelling argument for connecting Callan and Thurles which were on a par with Tipperary town but Thurles was ignored.

Mr. John Mullins

The argument was close but not close enough.

Where Tipperary leads, Ireland follows.

I am not complaining that Tipperary qualified but simply drawing the attention of Mr. Mullins to the fact that Bord Gáis does not have a pipe supply to the three or four major towns in north Tipperary. These towns continue to be ignored by the Commission for Energy Regulation, Bord Gáis, the Government or a combination of these three entities. This omission is not satisfactory and is part of the reason County Tipperary is being left behind. What hope can Mr. Mullins offer the county?

Mr. John Mullins

With the economic recession, many Bord Gáis engineers are not as active as they were in 2007. My organisation is only making 4,000 connections this year, whereas it made 27,000 two years ago. I have the resources available to me and would not have a problem with moving into north Tipperary or any other area. We need to understand, however, that a more holistic view is needed in terms of the importance of a gas supply to locations as a low carbon, efficient fuel. There are entities in Thurles, Roscrea and Nenagh, as there are in Tipperary town and elsewhere, for instance, in counties Wexford and Carlow, which want a gas supply because it is a cheaper form of energy than the energy arrangements available to them. In the context of sustaining employment, bringing a low cost energy supply to locations has a positive impact.

Bord Gáis is ready to deliver to north Tipperary but Government policy is preventing it from doing so.

Mr. John Mullins

Government policy could certainly examine in greater detail the low carbon aspect of gas and future gas pricing. We know world supplies will be sufficient for 130 years. We have an indigenous gas supply offshore in the Corrib gas field which will provide 60% of our gas supplies for the best part of a decade. These are substantial resources, over and above our wind and wave energy resources, that could be employed for economic development and sustainability. I have expressed this view to the Department and the Commission for Energy Regulation. Ultimately, the commission takes a view on our submission and decides what we can and cannot do. If Bord Gáis is supported from an economic point of view to bring a gas supply to every town in the country, we will do so. That is precisely what the company has done since it was founded. I would not have a difficulty in bringing a gas supply to as many towns as possible. That is not an agenda item I would contest.

I am pleased to hear it.

Mr. John Mullins

If the body politic were to issue such an instruction, I would not have a difficulty implementing it.

I am glad Deputy Mattie McGrath is listening, as he will pass on the message.

Mr. John Mullins

I will return to the issues of wind energy, power purchase agreements and connections. Bord Gáis is offering power purchase agreements to small wind farmers. We have done 500 kW and 750 kW deals with small farmers. Late last year, at an IFA event in Dublin Castle, I indicated that if a new micro-generation scheme was established on farms, Bord Gáis would step up to the plate and purchase the electricity generated under the scheme. However, we need fundamental changes from the ESB at the level of metering and a fundamental change in connection policies. These changes must take place if rural areas are to develop embedded generation facilities. As late as yesterday, I discussed with the Cork county manager the importance of embedded generation facilities in rural areas where farmers seeking opportunities to establish micro wind farms were encountering many difficulties in securing access to the grid. This is not the role of Bord Gáis, but at the end of that process we will be prepared to offer power purchase agreements.

The Minister made a statement on this matter in recent days.

Mr. John Mullins

He is certainly supportive of embedded generation facilities, the use of miscanthus and a number of other issues. The sooner a number of bureaucratic obstacles are removed, the better. The IFA has adopted a strong position on this matter. The removal of these obstacles will free up what is effectively a brand new industry in rural areas. As I stated on the issue of north Tipperary, Bord Gáis made a submission and put its best foot forward in terms of securing approval to connect to as many towns as possible. It is in our commercial interests to do so. The more pipelines we build, the more customers we will have and the more revenue we will generate. Shareholder value will increase as a result. It would be nonsensical, therefore, for the chief executive of Bord Gáis to state he was not in the business of providing what he should be providing. That is a clear statement.

Will Mr. Mullins respond to the question as to whether the ESB will be able to compete with Bord Gáis within a few months?

Mr. John Mullins

Having worked in the ESB for nearly a decade, I have the height of respect for my former colleagues. The reality is that this is competition. I know people have been looking at this as one semi-State versus another semi-State, but we have not gone from 18th to second without the move made by the other semi-State. That is welcome.

A question was asked about the ability of the ESB to undercut us. At the end of the day, suppliers of power generators and businesses will be rational. If there is irrationality and loss leaders come into play — going back to my bread factory story — then I have made it clear to the Commission for Energy Regulation that it will still have a job. We do not need light touch regulation in the energy sector. We cannot have deregulation, throw in the ball like the archbishop and walk up into the stands without a referee on the pitch. The referee still needs to be on the pitch in the form of the Commission for Energy Regulation and I have made that crystal clear.

In order to produce energy at a competitive price, there needs to be a competitive production plant. Members are more than welcome to come down in June and see what Whitegate looks like. It is 58% efficient and one of the best plants in the world. It will be commissioned soon and is up and running on base load testing. It will be available for all of our customers. It will be a competitive fight and we look forward to it. Clearly, we believe that we will offer the best service and the best prices. We will continue to do that with our gas and our electricity.

We are now providing financial services for homeowners to put in attic insulation, heat pumps and so on so that they can improve the BER rating of their homes. Our guys are going out there right across the Twenty-six Counties and we are recruiting people through Sierra Contractors. Bord Gáis will make its financial services available again, like we did in the 1970s and 1980s. When people want to put things into their home, they will have access to finance. We now know that the BER rating is an important aspect for renting, buying or selling a house, so the services enhance value as well. We will meet those energy efficiency requirements by offering up to €2,500 on the bill and we have entered an agreement with four banks for the provision of green loans at a 1% discount to the prevailing commercial lending. That will hopefully provide a serious contribution in getting construction workers, solar panellists and so on back out working. When it comes to the cart and the horse, the horse is the financing part. As a utility, we are now stepping up to the plate and providing finance as well.

Would that scheme have to be done through Sierra Contractors? Can any contractor carry out that work?

Mr. John Mullins

Any contractor who is interested in providing services in a given locality can go to Sierra Contractors or our own people and sign up as a registered installer. Such contractors are already probably registered with the SEAI and they are more than welcome to present their wares to our guys and to Sierra Contractors. Sierra Contractors will not have full coverage and expertise for the 23 different products we are offering to the market. If there are solar panellists out there who have been doing this and are registered and reputable, we are open to them joining our overall force.

I have been listening with interest to our guests. It is refreshing to hear such a positive message coming from the CEO and his colleagues. I compliment him on his work. There was a scare at one stage in respect of laptops and his honesty and frankness in admitting where errors occurred have to be commended. I want to thank him for the company's work in south Tipperary, with Cashel on-line, Cahir almost switched on and a welcome proposal to go to Tipperary Town. I have sympathy for my colleague in north Tipperary, but when his party gets into power next year they will have the opportunity to put it into every town and village in the country. We will hold them to account then.

If we were there for 20 years we would have it all done.

We will hold them to account then.

What kind of difficulties is Bord Gáis encountering with the grid? The company gave a presentation recently in Clonmel Chamber of Commerce. We are all in favour of green energy, but there are issues in communities with wind farms. It was handled badly from the start, with a lack of information and an attempt to set neighbour against neighbour. I do not know how it got off to a bad start, but there is a worry that the company will be like Big Brother and come in and construct wind farms in areas that were designated as not suitable for such farms in the county development plan. There are fractious relations in communities over this and that is a pity. It is better to meet the community representatives and deal with them. I do not know what caused all the trouble, but there was a lot of it.

I would also like to know about wind farms in respect of the lower scale of energy provision, such as energy for farms. Does Bord Gáis have any plans in respect of hydro-electricity generation? Ireland should be very suited to that and it would be less intrusive. There would still be a problem with the grid, but I look forward to hearing comments on it.

I compliment Mr. Mullins and Bord Gáis on providing finance to assist families to improve their BER ratings and get involved in retrofitting their houses. I welcome that and we need more of it.

Mr. John Mullins

I thank the Deputy. There are restrictions on the special rate offered by the ESB in respect of the upper limits on the size of a wind farm. The problem is that the smaller the size, the more uneconomic it is. There are many farms in the Deputy's own constituency in which half a megawatt could be introduced, but there are issues with neighbouring landowners about such a policy. Many of these problems are like those in "The Field" by John B. Keane. We will have to make the grid more accessible at a distribution level. There are real opportunities to avoid the construction of large pylons by putting in much more embedded generation at farm level and local level. That would displace the requirement for large-scale transmission across the country.

However, there are wider issues involved, especially in respect of the North-South 400 KV interconnector. This is of major strategic importance as it links Northern Ireland with the South completely in terms of electricity generation. We will then have no constraints on the market flows. The problem is that there are vested interests opposing it and vested interests in favour of it. There is a big debate on whether we install underground or overground pylons.

What is the opinion of Bord Gáis on that?

Mr. John Mullins

We want the cheapest form of grid available. The cheapest grid is that which has been in place here and in other countries for many years, which is the overhead grid. We do not see why we should pay three or four times the cost. We should have been doing this 20 years ago. When I was working with NTR and supporting Airtricity in the early days with Eddie O'Connor, there was a moratorium on wind connections here for two years. We had the best resources in western Europe, yet we decided to put a moratorium on any form of grid connection. That set the wind energy market back by up to five years.

Having said all that, there is probably a surplus here of wind farms with planning permission. There are probably 8,000 MW of identified wind farms, of which 3,000 MW worth of farms have planning or are close to obtaining planning. There are special areas of conservation that put restrictions on such developments, and I know there are debates about interference caused by radio signals and so on. We have certainly not found those in our installations. We have not found any ecological issues in our installations since we took over SWS and Sorne.

As Deputy McGrath rightly points out there is an issue of education. It is necessary to explain fully to a community like that in Clonmel or Roscrea the whys and wherefores. As an organisation, we are probably better equipped from a legacy point of view to do that rather than a single developer who might not have the full expertise to put these forward.

Since the development of Ardnacrusha through the works on the hydro schemes on the Liffey, Lee and the Shannon generally, we now have very limited run of river and storage resources from the point of view of hydro generation. The largest I have seen is probably up to 1 MW. Our most recent power purchase agreements are with all these mini hydro schemes. We are offering 15-year contracts for those mini hydro schemes. They are happening on a very local level, effectively on tributaries to main rivers as the Deputy may know. However, I am aware of a planned potential pump storage facility not too far from where the Deputy lives in his constituency which could improve the renewable storage. It is certainly worth considering that project and a number of others related to the Spirit of Ireland, which Senator O'Toole mentioned. The environmental impact of a pump storage plant is quite significant. In 1972 and 1973, Turlough Hill represented a very significant investment and had a significant environmental impact, and great care needed to be taken. If that plant in south Tipperary, and others in Mayo, Kerry and Cork are approached in the right way, we might have the right source of storage for all the renewables.

We have a choice to either put in the storage or put in a heap of lines to France and Britain. That choice needs to be made and the sooner we do so the better. These lines and these plants will take ten to 15 years to build. Frankly, we cannot have the mistakes of the past by not planning appropriately for these important pieces of infrastructure. At a time when we are looking for economic development in this country, we have real sources of economic development combined with renewables and embedded generation that will provide a real plus for the future. As somebody said to me in the past, our wind and wave resources are equivalent to the grass in the 1960s and 1970s that created organisations like Glanbia and the Kerry Group. That is a real opportunity on which we should now reflect.

I thank Mr. Mullins and Mr. Bunworth for their contributions which were very enlightening. I hope the members who were not present will read the transcripts as we have learned much. We look forward to meeting them on Tuesday, 8 June, in Cork when we will see their state-of-the-art new plant.

We also look forward to seeing them there on Sunday.

Mr. John Mullins

There is an open invitation to the Sexton Bar for the members.

The joint committee went into private session at 11.04 a.m. and adjourned at 11.06 a.m. until 9.50 a.m. on Wednesday, 7 July 2010.
Barr
Roinn