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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE AND SMALL BUSINESS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 Jun 2006

Reform of Irish Insurance Market: Presentations.

The next item for discussion is reform of the Irish insurance market with presentations by the Health and Safety Authority and the National Roads Authority. I welcome the representatives of both authorities who will assist us in our examination of the reform of the Irish insurance market. I also welcome back our consultant Mr. Myles O'Reilly who will also assist us. From the Health and Safety Authority are Mr. Tom Beegan, the chief executive, Ms Mary Dorgan, the assistant chief executive for the prevention services and Mr. Robert Roe, the programme manager of policy and technical services. From the National Roads Authority are Mr. Harry Cullen and Mr. Michael Egan, head of corporate affairs.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of this committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not extend to the witnesses. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We will now hear the two submissions, each lasting approximately 15 minutes, after which we will take questions and answers.

Mr. Tom Beegan

We are pleased to have been invited. I am accompanied by Ms Mary Dorgan, head of provincial services, and Mr. Robert Roe, who is in charge of policy and technical guidance. We have circulated some written information for the assistance of the committee and I will outline the highlights.

The Health and Safety Authority is established under statute and reports to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Deputy Killeen is the Minister of State to whom we report. Our tripartite board is chaired by Jim Lyons and is made up of three employer nominees, three union nominees and five ministerial nominees.

Our role covers the promotion of accident prevention, education and training, and enforcement. We provide information and advice, craft legislation for consideration by the Oireachtas and are involved in research. The HSA is also the competent body, nominated on behalf of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, to sit on EU committees and working groups. It represents Ireland at the Health and Safety Agency in Bilbao and is also a member of the senior labour inspectorate in Europe. It has a budget of €20.9 million this year. It has a number of offices around the country and hopes to open the Kilkenny office on 14 July as an interim move pending the full decentralisation of the authority to Thomastown.

Our strategy has two main principles, prevention and enforcement. In the next couple of weeks, we will publish a new strategy to take us forward for the next three years. If the strategy is to be a reality, every CEO and managing director will be required to make it a measurable priority, just as they do in respect of finance or other parts of their business.

Our mission is to promote a culture of safety which every citizen can embrace. The occurrence of any injury or accident at work, which could otherwise be avoided, must become as socially unacceptable as driving a car while drunk, dangerous driving or smoking in an enclosed workplace. We estimate that workplace injuries and accidents cost our economy approximately €3 billion in any one year, or approximately 2.5% of GNP. Current statistics show that employees in agriculture, construction, mines and quarries are particularly at risk. Equally, those working with vehicles and involved in manual handling are in the high-risk category. The most common causes of accidents or injuries in Irish workplaces are slips, trips, falls and poor lifting habits. The authority is also involved in occupational health and will soon publish an occupational health strategy for consultation and adoption towards the end of the year.

We are very understanding of the complexity of doing business in Ireland. We want to ensure we are fully in tune with the pressures on employers and employees. The last thing we want is for people to get bogged down in bureaucracy associated with health and safety. We are therefore working across all sectors to simplify the major issues into understandable contexts, starting with agriculture, construction and mines and quarries.

We believe fundamentally in meaningful consultation and a partnership approach. We work closely and continuously with the social partners, representative bodies, State agencies and major corporations to promote appropriate thinking on safety, health and welfare throughout the economy. This has led to highly beneficial partnerships with organisations such as ESB Networks, with which we already have a strategic alliance. We also co-operate with insurance companies to provide advice, assistance and support in their sector. We have a valued relationship with our colleagues in the HSENI in Northern Ireland and those in the rest of the United Kingdom. We meet regularly at both executive and board levels.

Wherever the preventive approach fails, we will use our full powers, including legal action, to protect workers and enforce safety and welfare regulations in the workplace. If any individuals, companies or sectors choose to disregard safety considerations, they should be rightly punished for this.

We want to raise the general level of awareness of safety and health in the workplace. We will target future workers and managers by working through the national education and training systems. We want to make relevant information and guidance easily available and we will continue to identify and address the high-risk sectors. We will enforce the law fully.

A couple of significant questions were posed in correspondence from the committee. The first concerned the number of accidents occurring. Most incidents do not result in fatalities but may result in injury. CSO figures indicate that there were 117,300 cases of work-related illness in 2004. Of these, more than 45,000 resulted in absences from work for more than three days. This is regrettable.

The number of work-related fatalities last year was shocking, amounting to 73. The last year in which so many died was 1995, in which year there were 78 fatalities. Last year's figure of 73 contrasts totally with that of 2004 when 50 people lost their lives. This was the lowest number of deaths since 1979.

The fatality rate dropped by more than 25% over the past decade. If it had not dropped, the total number of deaths in 2005 would have reached 89. The fall in rates has been achieved against a background of increasingly complex employment, which has increased by 50% since 1995. There has been a large increase in the number of higher-risk construction workers, in the order of 250%. The employment of non-Irish workers has also increased to very high levels. Regrettably, these are all factors that have tended to increase the number of fatal injuries.

The authority is mindful that the trend of reductions being achieved needs to continue and that there is no room for complacency in this regard. One injury, or one death, is one to many. To date, a total of 22 fatalities have been reported to the authority. This contrasts with 23 fatalities for the same period in 2004 and 29 for the same period in 2005.

Members asked about the nationalities of those killed or injured. The workplace fatality rate in the new entrant EU states is approximately double that of the original EU 15. In Ireland during 2005, a total of nine non-Irish workers died in workplace related incidents. Of these, six were from other EU states and three were from outside the EU. Non-Irish workers in the construction industry are three times more likely to be killed at work than Irish workers.

Members asked about the number of inspections we carry out. The number of inspections carried out by the authority increased from 10,704 in 2003 to 13,549 in 2005. We have a target of 16,000 inspections this year. Inspectors have a wide range of powers and they issue improvement notices, directions and compliance orders. Fifty per cent of all inspections result in enforcement action or the issuing of advice notice requiring remedial action. The failure to comply is an offence.

In the high-risk sectors of construction, the authority carried out 6,203 inspections in 2005. Last year more than 50,000 planning permissions were granted. Of these, 33,000 were for new construction and approximately one in five sites granted permission was inspected by the authority. In the agriculture sector, in which 114,000 people were employed last year, 1,187 inspections were carried out by the authority's inspectors.

Last year we pursued 40 prosecutions through the courts resulting in those convicted being fined a total of more than €460,000. In recent years a single company was fined €1 million following its prosecution by the authority. The Act of 2005 sets a maximum penalty of €3 million per breach, or imprisonment. The Judiciary is taking a dim view of these cases and cases are regularly referred to the higher courts because of the serious manner in which judges regard breaches of health and safety regulations.

Our goal is to reduce accidents to a level where we are on a par with the best EU states. Obviously, we wish to go beyond that. These states include the United Kingdom, Sweden and Denmark. Were Ireland to achieve a fatality rate equivalent to the United Kingdom, the total number of fatalities would have been less than 20 last year. We face a significant challenge in that regard.

Other relevant issues of note relate to the specific regulations we are drafting under the new Act in terms of quarries, construction, working at height; reporting accidents to us — which is a legal obligation that can be fulfilled on-line to speed up the process — and provision for young workers in particular going into the working environment for the first time. The result will be that a series of modern regulations dealing with all aspects of workplace health and safety will be in place this year. All sectors of the economy must be encouraged to support these regulations.

We have significant new powers concerning on-the-spot fines and testing for intoxicants. In particular we want to bring in the code of practice for the self-employed and those employing fewer than three people, which allows them comply with the law in a less stringent way than bigger companies in terms of paperwork.

There are specific duties for directors also. Already, we have a better response from people in charge of organisations to the management of safety standards within their enterprises. For example, the authority has recently partnered with every county manager and they have committed, with us, to putting in place an integrated health and safety management system within the next two years. That will mean where they offer contracts to sub-contractors, they will have to adhere to the highest safety standards.

In its third interim report, the committee referred to the voluntary protection programme. We see that as a significant move, which we are developing. Also, we can publish lists of offenders. Recently, the Government gave us responsibility for a significant initiative in the REACH directive, which is for the registration, evaluation and authorisation of chemicals. We were approved for 44 additional staff and already we have recruited an assistant chief executive, Sharon McGuinness, and 11 staff. By the end of the year we will have recruited 22 staff in this area. Those are jobs for university graduates, many of them educated to Ph.D level. We are also involved in the global harmonisation system for chemicals.

On micro-businesses, of which the committee is aware and has written about, there are approximately 113,000 businesses in Ireland that employ fewer than ten people. Those businesses are a backbone of the economy. We have done research to determine their needs. We have reviewed the existing publications and will come back with some specific proposals targeted at prevention and enforcement for this sector. Specifically, we will ensure that literature can be easily understood. Already, we have developed a mentoring programme for small business and we are investigating the possibility of Internet based training for micro-business. We will have further co-operation with the insurance sector in that regard.

We have established a workplace contact unit which allows us to be contacted easily but, more importantly, allows us to quickly respond to issues raised with us by either workers or members of the public. We have a special investigations unit and legal counsel to help us with our legal workload and the investigation of cases.

The final area the committee asked us to examine was the level of financial resources. In recent years, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has provided adequate funding to enable the authority carry out increased numbers of inspections and significant promotional campaigns as outlined in our annual programme of work.

Given the restrictions on staffing levels faced by all public bodies, the authority has had to reorganise its operations to achieve greater efficiency and so enable it to carry out active programmes in high risk sectors while maintaining a presence in all other sectors.

The authority is a modern, lean and highly efficient organisation. Our staff members in particular have been highly responsive to this change and they have worked hard to ensure that the required structures are in place to fulfil our role.

The committee asked if we had some recommendations to make. We believe the insurance companies should reward good workplace health and safety practices by means of a verifiable and robust system to be worked out with industry. We are prepared to play our part in that regard. The voluntary recognition schemes also have a role to play in this regard, where companies pursue excellence in health and safety and are independently verified. Small companies must have health and safety statements in place and all companies must have named people who are responsible for health and safety. This could also be incentivised by the insurance industry. The insurance industry should provide greater support in the promotion of workplace health and safety.

Ireland requires a national culture of workplace safety and health. For our part, the authority is fully committed to achieving that. It is up to everyone in society and the economy to buy into this agenda and make it happen. I will be happy to take any questions from members.

Thank you, Mr. Beegan. I welcome Mr. Michael Egan.

Mr. Michael Egan

Thank you, Chairman. The authority welcomes this opportunity to meet the committee members to discuss the important matter of road safety in the context of their deliberations on reform of the Irish insurance industry. I am accompanied today by Mr. Harry Cullen, our head of safety engineering.

The committee will be aware that the authority's primary function under the Roads Act 1993 is to secure provision of a safe and efficient network of national roads. We work closely with local authorities to achieve that objective. National primary and secondary roads have a combined length of 5,400 kilometres or just under 6% of the total public road network. National roads provide the primary links to all regions and access to the main population centres. In transport terms, national roads play a particularly important role in facilitating the movement of people and freight and in catering for commercial, tourism, social and leisure activities. While the length of the network for which the authority is responsible may be proportionately small relative to public roads generally, national roads carry more than 40% of all road traffic that moves in the country.

The authority's remit as regards road safety traditionally has focused on engineering and related research matters, with education and enforcement being addressed by others. The safety of road users is an integral element of national roads scheme planning and design procedures while the authority also operates a range of engineering based programmes which address safety concerns on existing national roads. A continuing commitment to best practice engineering in these areas will be a feature of the authority's ongoing work on developing and improving the network of national roads throughout the country.

Our research activities have brought the authority into contact with other countries and road engineering and safety bodies. In this way we are learning from the experience of others and are co-operating on research studies.

Since its establishment in 1994, the authority has been responsible for processing and analysing road collision reports prepared by the Garda Síochána. We produce an annual report from this data. More recently, our research has included periodic surveys of vehicle speeds and seat belt wearing rates. The results of this work are made available to the high level group on road safety as an aid to monitoring trends and devising such improved safety strategies as may be warranted. The authority's research activities concerning matters such as road collision statistics, vehicle speeds and seat belt wearing rates have recently been transferred to the new Road Safety Authority.

Many of the National Roads Authority's activities on engineering related road safety measures reflect the specific task set by Government in the road safety strategies that have been in place since 1998. The authority has met or exceeded targets set for it in the initial strategy, which covered the years 1998 to 2002. We have made good progress on our current strategy, which applies up to the end of this year, and again expect to exceed many of the specific targets. These involve measures such as the implementation of accident remedial measures, involving limited financial outlay, at 240 locations on national roads over the period 2004 to 2006; the development of higher cost accident remedial measure schemes at 20 locations on national roads; the implementation of traffic calming schemes at 60 locations on national roads; a review of the collision history at high accident locations identified in the NRA's report thereon published in 2002 when we identified 109 locations throughout the country; the determination of appropriate treatment for each location where the road has been a factor in the collisions; the conducting of comprehensive national speed and seat belt wearing surveys; the review of the 1996 and 1997 accident remedial measures programme to assess its effectiveness; and the evaluation of traffic calming schemes initiated in 1997 and 1998 to determine the safety benefits achieved.

The committee's invitation to the authority identifies issues of special interest to members, which I propose to deal with now. On engineering of roads and the attention we pay to road safety, the authority is working actively to make the network of national roads as safe as possible. We are doing this through the construction of new high quality roads and specific initiatives targeted at high risk accident locations on the existing network. However, it is our view that the ultimate goal of ensuring there are safer roads can be achieved only through a combination of engineering, enforcement, education and improvement in driver behaviour.

All new road designs on national roads are prepared to design standards contained in the authority's Design Manual for Roads and Bridges, the DMRB. These standards are based on UK design standards and incorporate international best practice. The UK has one of the best safety records in the world on road accidents and by using its standards as the base reference documents, the NRA can take advantage of the large research resources in place there and the many years of experience the UK has had in developing in its road network.

The NRA DMRB provides for the carrying out of road safety audits at three separate stages on all major road scheme construction projects with a view to identifying potential hazards for all users and seeking their elimination or mitigation. These audits ensure that the safety of road users is independently assessed from early design to opening of the road to traffic. A requirement for safety audits may become obligatory for all EU member states on the proposed EU directives on road safety, but the authority has been committed to implementing this procedure in Ireland since 2001.

Engineering measures that take account of road safety considerations are incorporated in the best practice objectives embedded in the NRA DMRB design standards. In the case of new build projects, in particular, engineering features catering for safety of road users would include keeping the roadside edge area clear of obstructions where possible, appropriate use of safety barriers and use of low impact structures for roadside furniture and attention to sight and stopping distances.

Under the Government's Transport 21, by the end of 2010 there will be motorway or high quality dual carriageways from Dublin to Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Northern Ireland on the M1. These roads are being designed to the highest international standards and are inherently safer than other road types. Significant lengths of motorway and dual carriageway standard roads, with their established higher safety record, will be a feature of the national road network on various routes in addition to the five major inter-urban routes. Roads of this standard are already in place or planned on routes such as the N3 — Dublin to Kells, N7 — Dublin to Naas where major improvements are nearing completion at present, the N11 — Dublin to south of Gorey on the Wexford road, and the N18 — Limerick to Galway route.

The authority anticipates a significant safety dividend from the replacement of single carriageway roads by motorways and dual carriageways. The current programme in this regard should reduce annual road accident fatalities by more than 50 compared to accident rates that would otherwise apply.

Transport 21 also envisages other new roads to replace existing substandard sections of the national network. However, not all of the national road network is scheduled for improvement within the short to medium term. In the case of those sections earmarked for major improvement at a future date, the authority is in a position to give earlier attention to any serious safety risk that may exist through, for example, focused initiatives such as our ongoing programmes providing for remedial measures at high risk accident locations, traffic calming schemes and route treatment initiatives, including paving improvement.

The authority's road safety programme is focused on identifying accident clusters from our analysis of the Garda Síochána's accident database, establishing if there is a common cause of accidents and then developing treatments for them where appropriate. Our expenditure on specific road safety programmes and measures has increased from approximately €10 million to €24 million in the past three years. Our current programme caters for accident remedial measure schemes at specific locations, traffic calming schemes, safety barrier retrofit programme on the inter-urban sections of motorways and dual carriageways, route treatments, road safety training programmes, road safety research and road safety conferences, school warning signs, including part-time speed limit signs at certain locations. Road user safety will also benefit from our work on road lining and marking while earlier this year the authority initiated a special programme to improve directional and tourist signage on national roads.

I note the committee is also interested in the relative safety of different road types. The authority has participated in a recent study that compared the safety performance of Irish roads with those of other European countries. The fines are contained in the European road assessment programme, covering the period 1998 to 2002 more generally referred to as the EuroRAP report. That was published last year.

Safety standards in Ireland were rated highly with only 12% of the network classified as being in the medium to high or high risk categories. These sections of our network have either been the subject of remedial works in the interim or such work is programmed to be carried out in the near future. A total of 26 sections of roads around the country were identified in that report. We are in the process of addressing each of those.

The report's findings also confirm that motorways with full grade separation are significantly safer than other road types — between three and five times safer than new single carriageway roads depending on the country examined. It might be noted that assessment of the different road types and their performance in terms of safety on the basis of personal injury accident rates give similar comparative ratios.

I have included in speaking notes I circulated a table setting out the specific accident rates based on fatal collisions per billion vehicle kilometres of travel in a number of EuroRAP participating countries. Members can note the Irish performance in the context of different roads and how we compare with the performance in other countries.

With regard to the safety standard on public roads generally, the authority's remit is confined to national roads and, as a consequence, the 89,200 km of local and regional roads throughout the country fall to be dealt with by local authorities rather than the NRA. As already outlined, the safety performance on national roads is continually being improved through a combination of construction of new roads to best international standards which replace sections with a poorer safety record and by specific measures to reduce accident risks on existing national roads. Safety aspects will continue to receive a high priority as the authority avails of the record funding committed by Government under Transport 21 for the improvement of national roads. We expect to spend in excess of €16 billion in the ten year period up to the end of 2015 on national road improvements throughout the country.

Our efforts are showing positive results in the safety area. Initial analysis of our accident database indicates that, notwithstanding and increase of more than 25% in traffic volumes over the period 2000 to 2004, national roads are performing better than other roads as regards the reduction achieved in the rate of fatalities.

A further area in which the committee is interested is that of the new two plus one type of road. For the information of members, we circulated a little booklet explaining the design and objectives we wish to achieve in piloting that new form of road. Experience of two plus one roads with wire rope crash barrier separation is largely limited to the relatively recent introduction of this road type in Sweden where more than 1,300 km of such road have been constructed since 1998. At a recent road safety conference organised by the authority, the Swedish NRA indicated that the safety of its schemes built to this standard was approaching dual carriageway performance levels and that fatal accidents on this road type have been reduced by between 50% and 80% compared with rates on former single carriageway roads. These are dramatic results. The impressive rates recorded for Sweden in the EuroRAP table, to which I referred, reflect the significant length of two plus one single carriageway road type used in that country. In Ireland we are at the initial stages of piloting the two plus one road type. The early indicators are positive. However, significant differences between the Swedish and Irish projects and conditions would include traffic volumes as well as the frequency of accesses and junctions to our national roads. The authority will continue to monitor experience under Irish conditions to determine the effectiveness of this initiative. If we achieve positive results, we will seek capacity to introduce this road type on possibly up to 850 km of national primary road in the country, almost one third of all national primary roads. We also have approximately 1,300 km of motorway and dual carriageway as part of the national primary network, and have the benefit of the major safety dividend that those roads deliver.

As regards crash barriers on motorways, we have a retrofit programme in respect of inter-urban motorway and dual carriageway sections, which is very well advanced and will be substantially completed by the end of this year. All new motorways and dual carriageway schemes constructed since 2004 have safety barriers fitted as standard. As regards the potential to install crash barrier on other road types, in addition to motorways, dual carriageways and two plus one roads, we are aware that Sweden is piloting an initiative on some single carriageway roads where there are low traffic volumes and few access points. The authority has considered the possibility of a similar approach being adopted here. However, we found that roads in Ireland generally have a large number of field gates, house entrances, entrances to commercial and other activities, minor road junctions and so forth for each kilometre of road. These features severely limit the scope to undertake a crash barrier retrofit programme and also restrict potential to adapt a two plus one solution to existing roads. The primary focus of our application of the two plus one road type is on greenfield sites where, through design, the access junction issue can be more controlled and appropriate lands can be acquired to develop appropriate solutions.

The difficulty in installing crash barriers on many existing roads or in retrofitting the two plus one road type, due to the incidence and extent of minor road junctions and the multiplicity of access points to private property and commercial operations, provides lessons for our future approach to the management and protection of national roads. Stopping and turning movements associated with these junctions and accesses entail significant accident risks as well as impacting on the efficiency and level of service delivered by national roads.

An analysis of road accident data compiled from Garda accident reports indicates that more than 50% — and the numbers involved exceed 33,000 — of all injury accidents reported on Irish roads over the period 1996 to 2004 occurred at junctions or involved turning movements on to or off roads. The fatalities in these accidents total 964 or 26% of overall road accident fatalities, which amounts to just over 3,700 recorded during the same nine year period.

The authority supports a strategy that seeks to prevent a proliferation of roadside developments along national roads to which high speed limits apply, by which I mean more than 50 kph, as part of a broad based strategy aimed at reducing fatalities on such roads. These safety concerns and risks are foremost in the mind of the authority when consulted on planning applications for development fronting on to national roads and strongly influence whether the authority advises planning authorities against giving permission. Similarly, these concerns would come to bear should the authority consider the possibility of submitting an appeal to An Bord Pleanála against specific decisions of planning authorities that would, in the authority's view, impact on the use and safety of national roads.

The authority will continue to give engineering based road safety a high priority in the development and improvement of national roads. Our new roads, built to best international standards, are significantly safer than the roads that are being replaced. Our accident fatality rate would be considerably higher today but for these and other measures that have been taken, given the increased volumes of traffic being experienced throughout the country. The authority's efforts will make a further contribution to keeping the rate of fatalities down. However, our efforts alone cannot solve this pressing problem. Real success will depend on many factors, including an intensified commitment to education, enforcement and more responsible behaviour on the part of all road users.

Thank you, Mr. Egan. I acknowledge Mr. Stephen O'Byrnes and his team in the Visitors' Gallery, who are assisting the Health and Safety Authority this morning. I have some questions before calling Deputy Hogan. I congratulate both organisations on what they are doing to increase safety. They are the professionals. We are the conduit from Government and we will try to assist, in any way we can, whatever in your professional opinion will benefit the work the committee has undertaken with regard to the insurance industry, which involves all aspects of safety. We appreciate the assistance you have given the committee and our consultant on this area.

Tens of thousands of hours are being lost each day on the M50. I and members of the committee have been to Hong Kong, South Africa, China, India and many other countries. I am aware of Mr. Egan's reputation, which is admired and appreciated. As a former local authority member of Westmeath County Council, I am also aware that he has been of enormous assistance to my county. Hong Kong has a system of putting two lanes of traffic on steel flyovers. Coming to Dublin from Mullingar yesterday and this morning, it took me an hour and 17 minutes to drive from the Spa Hotel to the M50. Thousands of people are sitting in cars for hours and hours. The National Roads Authority is admired and what it does is appreciated. However, the ordinary person sitting in a car, like me, cannot understand how its eminent engineers cannot devise a system whereby motorists can drive straight across the M50, with no roundabouts and no traffic lights, each morning and evening.

There are six main roads into Dublin. There are 6,000 people from Mullingar and north Westmeath driving into and out of Dublin each day. My workforce is leaving home in Mullingar at 5.30 a.m. and starting work at 6.45 a.m. It leaves at 3.30 p.m. The second workforce is not on site until 9.30 a.m. and will leave at 7 p.m. It is an enormous inconvenience. Is there any hope or possibility that something can be done with the six arteries into Dublin? Could we use the Hong Kong experience to prevent the roads ending up as car parks for people who wish to use the M50? If people had an alternative, many of them would not use the M50.

I am aware there is a pilot two and one lane system from Mullingar to Longford. The road from Kilcock to Kinnegad has been completed and is now being built from Kinnegad to Kilbeggan, Athlone and on to the west of Ireland. The transformation is mind-boggling. However, from the Spa Hotel in Lucan, the road is a minefield. We are victims of our success. I spoke to Mr. Nolan about this, Mr. Egan's eminent colleague. Surely something could be done about crossing the M50. Nobody can believe it takes so long to do it, but that is my experience and it is the experience of many others. There is also the loss of time. I estimate that if there were a flyover of the M50, it would save me ten hours per week sitting in my car. That is true of everybody else who must do the same.

Mr. Egan

The Chairman should start planning now how he will use those ten hours more productively.

You have good news for the Chair.

Mr. Egan

We have work under way to address the problem at the Palmerstown interchange, on the Galway road. As part of that phase of work we are also addressing the situation at the Red Cow on the Naas Road. We will construct a third lane between both interchanges. That is phase 1 of the M50 upgrade. Work is under way on it. At Palmerstown, which I will use as an example, we will remove all the traffic lights and create freeflow conditions. In other words, there will be no conflicting movements of traffic crisscrossing or attempting to go in different directions, which is the current situation.

When will that be done?

Mr. Egan

It will be open to traffic in 2008. We are also planning to put in a third lane. There is a third lane immediately west of the Palmerstown interchange or roundabout but we will extend that to the start of the motorway, west of the Spa Hotel. That will facilitate approaches to and from the city when the motorist crosses the M50. We have a strategy in hand to facilitate the radial routes coming to and from Dublin.

In phase 2 of the work on the M50 which is scheduled to start next year we will deal with the rest of the interchanges and extend the third lane over the bulk of the M50. We have a strategy in place to address the difficulty created by the toll plaza at the West Link Bridge. It is part of the problem although the authority has never said it is the sole difficulty there. The overall strategy, to be effective, requires that we move from the barrier arrangement to an electronic toll. We are working actively to deliver that. We have consultants to advise the authority on how to achieve it. We anticipate that not only will it be much easier to cross the M50 when going to or from Dublin but that conditions on the M50 will be significantly improved as a result of the overall strategy. We plan that phases 1 and 2 will be completed by the end of 2010.

That is four years away. It is unacceptable. The Hong Kong system could transform this in 12 months. It is two lanes of steel bridging to allow traffic in and out. With a tendering structure, I do not see why it could not be erected and in place within 12 months. When one comes from Dublin on the M50, the Esker lights are as prohibitive as the M50 in holding us in traffic. Therefore, we are held up twice coming out of Dublin. The planning in other cities should certainly be reviewed. I strongly recommend the witnesses to visit Hong Kong to see how they alleviated the problems they had a few years ago.

The Celtic tiger part two is here to stay for another two or three years, but all the time that is being lost is unacceptable. As Chairman of this committee, I am speaking for every person employed in any job in the country. It is not acceptable for an eminent man like Mr. Egan to tell the committee they will do something but it will take four years. I intend to call the Minister before the committee on this issue. I am flagging it with the witnesses who should be prepared to return to the committee with the Minister to see what can be done. It is not relevant to what we are discussing today but this frustration has been building up and pressure is coming on every member of the committee. This is unacceptable. We are victims of our own success but we are not going to wait around for four years to have it solved. It is as simple as that. Does Mr. Egan wish to respond to that?

Mr. Egan

I want to clarify the matter. I hope I have not unduly upset the Chairman.

I can assure Mr. Egan that I am not upset, but this is unacceptable.

This is mild by comparison.

Mr. Egan

I thank the Deputy for his advice.

It is unacceptable.

Mr. Egan

I would like to make a clarification.

Mr. Egan

Perhaps I have tempted fate by the reference to having the job completed by 2010, which I said and I am standing over. To be clear about it, this is for the entire M50 upgrade and all the major interchanges. It is not for different sections. There are a number of sections in the project. As I said, phase one — the Naas Road to the Galway road and both interchanges — will be completed by about mid-2008, which is not too far away. I should emphasise that what we are doing are full-scale solutions. If the country and the authority in its early days had had more resources, we could have gone for traffic free-flow conditions, but the reality was that we could not afford to do that.

Mr. Egan is not coming in here to tell us that. The country is awash with money and his agency has more money than it ever anticipated it would receive. Is that not right?

Mr. Egan

That is correct. We will have a full-grown solution. It is not simply a question of free-flow movement from the east-west on the N4 — the Galway route — using that as an example. Using the Palmerstown interchange as a typical example, we want to cater for traffic coming from the Galway area and wishing to move south on the M50. They will do that by constructing new structures — loops, as it were — that will take traffic over the existing roundabout and moving freely straight down onto the M50.

Similarly, coming from the airport, we will construct new structures. If one wants to come from the airport down the M50, moving south, and wishes to go in the Galway direction, a new structure will take one out directly onto the Galway road. It is very elaborate.

Is Mr. Egan talking about flyovers?

Mr. Egan

Yes — loops and flyovers. People would be familiar with them in other countries. It is an involved construction operation and that is why it will take until about mid-2008 on that section. There will be some disruption and we will seek to minimise that in conjunction with the local authorities and the contractor. There will be elaborate traffic management plans and financial penalties if two lanes are not maintained in operation at peak times.

That is quite all right and we appreciate everything Mr. Egan is doing for the people who must use the M50. If I am coming out of Dublin, there is no good reason I should not be able to drive freely from Heuston Station to Mullingar, Athlone or Longford. However, for reasons best known to others, there are lights, roundabouts, tailbacks and hold-ups. As has been said, the flyover system would eliminate much of that and would stop all the right-hand turning, which should not be allowed on dual carriageways. Is there any possibility that such as idea could be entertained?

Mr. Egan

The dual carriageways we are now building do not have right-hand turning movements or roundabouts, which are a legacy of the past. The difficulty the National Roads Authority sometimes finds itself in is that, when we speak publicly about dual carriageways, most people, understandably, think about the Naas Road. There are traffic lights on that road, along with petrol stations, restaurants and private houses. Those days are gone, however, because such roads are unsafe compared with what can be provided today under current design standards.

When we use the term "dual carriageway" now, for all intents and purposes in terms of road design and construction, it is identical to the public's concept of a motorway. There will be no roundabouts or sideroads. The real distinction between them is that the motorway label introduced certain restrictions on the class of road user. Learner drivers, slow-moving vehicles, pedal cyclists and pedestrians cannot use motorways, while they can use dual carriageways. We have approached the Department of Transport with a view possibly to extending the motorway designation to some sections of existing dual carriageway where we think safety and other considerations can be catered for.

When will we have free-flowing traffic on the six main routes crossing the M50, which is basically what we are looking for?

Mr. Egan

On the six of them, I am sorry to say it again, but it will be 2010. The Naas Road and Galway road will be ready in mid-2008 approximately.

I have some questions for the NRA and the HSA. Mr. Egan mentioned right-hand turnings. The NRA designed a road in Piltown which had right-hand turnings. The NRA is going to start that with the two-plus-one lane. The NRA has the compulsory purchase order option if it wants to sort out safety matters. It does not have to wait until the appropriate lands can be acquired because it has powers to do that through the local authority if it wants to put safety at the heart of its policy. That is what we are trying to do here. Safety is the key issue in reducing accidents.

The two-plus-one road type is a conversion of NRA policy from what was designed originally for dealing with right-hand bends. I draw Mr. Egan's attention to the Waterford-New Ross road, with which he will be familiar, given the number of fatalities there over a number of years. It is a national primary route but it is a disgrace that nothing is being done to make those junctions safer. All the statistics show that right-hand turning movements are the critical issue in road fatalities.

The second issue concerns the implementation of the speed limit programme, which is a national disgrace. There are by-roads with an 80 km/h limit which were never supposed to be designated as such by the local authority through the NRA. When will the intensive review of the speed limits programme be implemented at each local authority?

It is supposed to be best practice for safety that every 90 minutes a driver can pull in to a service area, but I do not see much evidence of service areas in the NRA's planning. I would be interested to know where the NRA is thinking of having a service area on the Dublin-Waterford route. There has been much toing and froing about that issue but I do not see any evidence that people can pull in for a rest and a coffee to prevent themselves falling asleep. This is international best practice, yet I do not see any evidence of it in the NRA's planning to date, although I could be wrong about that.

I have some questions for Mr. Beegan of the HSA. The figures he gave the committee indicate that we are not making much progress on safety. The number of fatalities is a serious cause for concern and not just for bereaved families. The resulting insurance costs are problematic, especially for the construction sector. For some time, I have been critical about the Safe Pass programme operated by FÁS. We have had up to 2,000 people working on construction sites who were driving cranes and undertaking other activities while not qualified to do so because of a scam in FÁS with trainers. I want to know what has been done to ensure such activity is not continuing. People were writing out certificates, which were authorised by FETAC, and then someone could drive a crane with no qualification to do so. People on construction sites, as well as the public, were being put at risk by those practices.

Would the witnesses care to comment on the view that the HSA should have total responsibility for safety, including public safety, such as in the case of the bus that careered into the public at the Clarence Hotel on the Dublin quays some years ago? There was no one in charge of how that should be dealt with. In that regard, I have serious concerns about the issue of who is in charge of public safety, what protocols are in place or what authority is charged with dealing with these issues to ensure such accidents do not occur. According to the figures indicated, we are not making as much progress as we should, especially in the construction sector. What proposals are there for improvement in that area?

Mr. Egan

Deputy Hogan raised two or three specific issues. On the Piltown-Fiddown scheme in Kilkenny, the NRA is conscious that there have been a number of fatalities on that road since it was completed approximately five years ago. It was built to the applicable design standard at the time. It was probably built at a period of transition and I suppose this is one of the consequences. From our analysis of the specific circumstances of road accidents, it is debatable whether the road has been a significant factor. We take the point that fatalities have occurred. The frequency of junctions on that road is a significant factor but, while the mere presence of junctions presents risks, it does not mean that accidents need necessarily follow.

I take Deputy Hogan's point about our adoption of the two plus one road type. As I stated in my opening statement, the NRA participates and exchanges views with other comparative bodies internationally.

Would Mr. Egan agree that with all the money the NRA has spent, the road has been improved but more people have died, and it is a little embarrassing?

Mr. Egan

It is. There have been fatalities, as I have acknowledged, and we in the NRA are not happy with that. We are in the process of revisiting that road and converting it to a two-plus-one type road. This poses difficulties, in particular because of the number of side-road junctions that present problems. People will be inconvenienced by being prevented from coming down side roads and taking right-turn movements onto the far carriageway. I suspect there may be some local reaction, but it is one of these areas where there is a price to pay for increased safety. Everybody must aspire to a safer road, and that is what we are trying to achieve.

We will use that experience to monitor the success of the two-plus-one type road. We completed a scheme early last year in Cork on the N22 between Mallow and Rathduff. A new greenfield site scheme, the Castleblayney bypass, is under construction and others will follow. I hope we will be able to use that road type on a wider scale.

The NRA continually monitors developments in road types and we are constantly seeking a balance between traffic needs and the money available. Ideally, if we could reach a position of having a national network exclusively of motorway and dual carriageway, I suppose there would be major safety dividends. However, the relevant volumes of traffic are not evident. The footprint would far exceed what would be required and there would be serious environmental implications. There are these balances to be struck at all times but we are working to get a better balance and place the safety dimension centre stage as part of that exercise.

I was not sure from Deputy Hogan's question on speed limits whether he was suggesting some roads with an 80 km/h limit should have higher or lower limits.

They had lower limits of 40 mph and they are now 80 km/h.

Mr. Egan

Speed limits on non-national roads are the responsibility of the local authorities. In the case of national roads, local authorities are also primarily responsible and they determine what the speed limit should be. If they wish to vary a speed limit, they come to the NRA with a proposal.

In other words, there is no national policy on speed limits.

Mr. Egan

The policy is set out essentially by the Department of Transport. A comprehensive document was issued by the Department of Transport in conjunction with the changeover to metrification.

Did the Department consult the NRA?

Mr. Egan

It did. The review continues at local authority level and we will respond to any proposals for speed limit changes, either increases or decreases.

On the service area point, the NRA had anticipated that the private sector would move much more quickly on the roll-out of motorway and dual carriageway sections on national roads. It is fair to say we have been disappointed by the lack of take up. We are aware of significant private sector interest in certain routes and there are one or two projects under construction close to motorways at the interchanges essentially. Not too long ago, we announced a policy change whereby the authority, in conjunction with local authorities, would actively seek a number of sites for service area development and take that through the planning procedure. We anticipate holding a competition on the provision and operation of motorway service area facilities.

Separately, we are in the process of finalising locations for rest areas. These are smaller-scale facilities where people can simply pull in and take a break. It is likely these will include a toilet facility and, perhaps, picnic tables. Such facilities will be available on the network more extensively than the full-blown service areas and that is what we working to deliver in the not too distant future.

Mr. Egan mentioned the NRA has experienced a low level of take-up from the private sector for service areas. Surely take up depends on whether the NRA will provide an exit from the road? There are people looking for exits at interchanges who the NRA will not facilitate.

Mr. Egan

At interchanges, we do not have a particular difficulty provided the service facility is intended to cater for the needs of road users. We are aware of a number of proposals where the road user dimension of the development is simply the tip of the iceberg which is being used as the sprat to land for the developer a major commercial leisure activity or hotel type operation that will suck in traffic in its own right.

Subject to planning.

Mr. Egan

The NRA has a policy document, which is available on its website, on the management and development of the network generally and how development pressure should be addressed. Key to that objective is to avoid the erosion of the inter-urban transport function that the national network is designed to deliver by piecemeal development, whether on the main line or close to interchanges, which could result in congestion by sucking in non-long distance traffic. We have had such experience in certain major sections of motorway not too far from here. We do not want to repeat it anywhere else in the country. Our view is that the national network should cater for long-distance national traffic and local roads should cater for other development.

Planning issues are none of the NRA's business. Local authorities will decide that. The NRA's job is to provide the services for the people using the road. If there is an objective in any road development that there should be rest areas or service areas, that will be subject to planning. While the NRA might have a view or observation on it, the local authority is responsible for that and what they put at an interchange is their business.

Mr. Egan

I respect Deputy Hogan's point about the planning authority function. The local authorities have a statutory role and are the decision-making authorities. We respect that. I have no argument with Deputy Hogan in that regard.

The NRA can have views that sometimes may not be entirely consistent with those held by local authorities. That is the nature of any activity, development or operation. We are entitled to express those views. We do not anticipate that in all cases planning authorities will take them on board.

The planning authority could identify a good rateable opportunity. Is there best practice, for example, that there should be a rest area every 20 miles?

Mr. Egan

That is essentially it. Our objective is that at distances of approximately 60 km there would be full-blown motorway service area facilities and roughly at 30 km intervals there would be smaller rest areas. That is what we are working to achieve.

I apologise to Mr. Beegan for not returning to him until now but we were waiting for the NRA for quite some time.

Mr. Beegan

Deputy Hogan raised a number of questions. Clearly, any year in which 73 people lose their lives is a tragedy for their families, friends and co-workers, and nobody can be happy with that. Any death or injury is one too many. Overall, there is a drop of 25% in the fatality rate over the past decade, but more needs to be done. We believe we have a strategy developed that will give us a better result, but the trend is downwards.

Construction is one of the most dangerous sectors. Where sites are well managed, there are excellent examples of good safety management. These sites tend to be larger projects which have a good management system, including a health and safety management system. Like many industries, the construction industry is taking the route of subcontracting to niche providers. Regrettably, small providers, businesses or contractors do not have an infrastructure in place, tend not to have a formalised management system and are over-represented in the fatality figures. For that reason, we are putting a significant focus on microbusinesses to bring them up to speed. These are some of the reasons construction is as it is, and perhaps this has been reflected in the insurance premium figures raised by the Deputy.

With regard to the totality of public safety, there is a section 12 in the new health and safety Act. An ad hoc committee of our board is discussing the matter of where our remit starts and finishes in the area raised by the Deputy. It is an area that requires clarification and the Deputy was right to raise it. A report was produced and there will not be another agency established, as the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, informed the Dáil in reply to questions.

We had a meeting some time ago with the Road Safety Authority and today I am meeting the chief executive officer of the authority, Mr. Brett. I hope we will be able to bring proposals to our board to enable us work together as two independent authorities, but joined in terms of driving the culture of safety I talked about earlier.

I will ask my colleague, Mr. Roe, to comment on Safe Pass. There have been difficulties as the Deputy pointed out and the Health and Safety Authority, together with FÁS, initiated an independent review. That review has been brought before both boards and is being considered by sub-committees of both authorities. I expect there will be significant movement on this in the near future. I will ask Mr. Roe to provide more detail on what exactly is involved.

Mr. Robert Roe

Safe Pass is a crucial component of our overall strategy on construction safety. For many of the workers in the smaller and less well managed companies where many of the accidents occur, Safe Pass instruction is the only safety awareness instruction they will get over several years. Therefore it is very important.

We are aware there are difficulties with Safe Pass. For example, some people have forged Safe Pass cards. We are involved in a joint review of the system with FÁS and with the major users such as instructors, people who have undergone training and construction companies. That review is complete and is with our board. Some of the recommendations include a major strengthening of the FÁS administration system so that, for example, people can verify the bona fides of anybody with a FÁS Safe Pass. New construction regulations are going through the Parliamentary Counsel for final legal settlement. These draft regulations contain a specific offence with regard to the uttering, issuing or possession of forged certificates or cards and will give us further powers to clamp down on this practice.

What happened the 2,000 plus people who got Safe Pass certificates under false pretences via unscrupulous trainers who were subsequently authorised by FETAC? Were they retrained and were they identified as people at risk to themselves and fellow workers on construction sites? Has the authority carried out an investigation in this regard and what has happened in the meantime to ensure everybody on these sites is covered by a proper safety programme?

Mr. Roe

FÁS has been carrying out an investigation into the circumstances of this issue. It is responsible for administering Safe Pass and it is dealing with the issue.

FÁS was administering the scheme when the problem arose. Is the Health and Safety Authority the overriding authority? When the investigation is complete, will the HSA be entitled to move in and ensure FÁS does the job properly?

Mr. Beegan

It was at our behest that the review took place. I understand a number of the cases involved are with the Garda Síochána which is pursuing the matter.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform told me by way of parliamentary reply recently that there was only one such case and it had been resolved. I was surprised to hear that and am unhappy about it.

Mr. Beegan

We will research this more and provide further information to the committee.

The HSA can return to the committee and reply to the Deputy.

Ms Mary Dorgan

I would like to reply to Deputy Hogan on the question of progress. There is no doubt that we are not satisfied that such a high performing economy had the level of workplace deaths we had last year. However, when it comes to the matter of injuries or accidents that cause an absence of more than three days from work, the trend is that these have been decreasing or have remained just about steady. In that respect, European comparisons suggest we are making good progress.

We are, however, concerned about the increase in the number of occupation related illnesses causing absences of more than three days. These illnesses might be related to joint or muscle problems, but they could also relate to psycho-social issues. Work related stress, for example, only appeared as an accepted illness within the past five to ten years. We are concerned about this trend and the number of days lost because of occupation related illness, and this is something we are addressing through our occupational health strategy.

The construction industry has five times as many people employed as it did ten years ago. Bearing that in mind, I commend the HSA on the work it is doing. I work closely with the industry and, as far as I can see, the larger companies are state-of-the-art. It is the smaller companies that need some tightening up on the regulations, but they are under ferocious pressure on account of capital allowances and tax incentives. In fairness, the Minister for Finance gave them an extension in last year's budget. In this regard, the time dilemma the construction industry found itself in with health and safety was a serious consideration.

I extend a welcome to the two authorities here. There are many questions we could ask, but we should focus on the remit of the committee and what it is trying to do, namely, to address the issue of the very high cost of insurance in the economy and to discover to what extent we can, by collective action, reduce those costs. We cannot control the price of gasoline, interest rates or many other factors, but insurance is one of the few areas in terms of enterprise and cost we can control.

My first question to both authorities is where the high cost of insurance surfaces on their radar machine. Does the NRA or the HSA want to talk to the insurance industry or find out the impact of health and safety regulations on insurance premia or operating costs?

With regard to the HSA, the trade unions have been attempting to highlight construction industry abuses. I was outside the HSA premises some weeks ago. I compliment the authority on how it responded on that occasion and hope that this will now become a feature. Is there a case in legislation for the introduction of the crime of corporate manslaughter, which was not in the recent legislation that was passed? In the case of a prominent building contractor, the judge was scathing in the comments made on the persistent abuse of safety procedures, yet the fines were derisory. Does the HSA think the legal sanction of corporate manslaughter or a similar offence would be enough to put manners on some of the cowboy contractors, notwithstanding the pressures under which they operate?

There are echoes of McAlpine's Fusiliers in all of this, but I do not know the equivalent Polish term for such workers. If any nation has a legacy of abuse on building sites, it is Ireland. It is rather tragic to think it is recurring on these shores, with Polish workers, in the main, being put at risk. Perhaps the HSA will outline how that can be addressed. Should it contact the relevant authorities in Poland to discuss this matter?

Some of the questions I asked at the outset are also relevant to the NRA. How does the authority believe that the insurance dialogue manifests itself? Does it manifest itself? Has the NRA mentioned the proposed two plus one road pilot programme, which seems to be an attractive and constructive suggestion, to the Irish insurance industry? If so, has it received a response? I would also like to ask the NRA about a matter the Chairman raised with it earlier. Mr. Egan said that the upgrade of the M50 ring road and the six interchanges could be completed by 2010, but could it be speeded up? If the NRA was given permission to accelerate that project, especially at the N7 and N4 junctions, could it do it any faster than at present? If so, what would it need to do it?

Mr. Beegan

I will speak about the cost of insurance in this sector. The HSA sees the insurance industry as a significant enabler because it helps the authority to get its message across. One needs many things if one is to do business in Ireland. One certainly needs two basic things. One needs a bank and one needs insurance. Microbusinesses are difficult to reach because, traditionally, they are not members of the trade associations such as the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, the Small Firms Association, the Irish Business and Employers Confederation and Chambers Ireland. Their staff do not tend to be unionised. The HSA is unable to reach that target audience because it cannot avail of the traditional mechanism it has had for communicating with people. That is why it wants to work with the insurance industry.

It has had a number of meetings with the Irish Insurance Federation and some productive experiences with individual companies. It is aware of an insurance company — Hibernian — which offers a risk assist product for microbusinesses. I understand that companies which sign up to the product get premium reductions of up to 15%. The HSA, Chambers Ireland and Eagle Star are co-operating on a pilot project in the southern region that is aimed at microbusinesses. Hibernian and FBD are offering reductions to those in the agriculture sector who have completed the self-assessment document.

Systems will not deliver the results which are needed unless they are relevant to the running of businesses, and health and safety are seen as good business practices. The HSA's focus on prevention is changing. Ms Dorgan is in charge of the association's work in that regard. The HSA and the insurance sector have the same interests. The authority would like insurance companies to run profitable enterprises safely. Insurance companies are in the business of risk management for profit. The HSA is involved in the risk management business because it has a statutory remit to protect workers from injury. That is where the HSA would like to focus during the debate on the cost of insurance. The various interests can work together without compromising the independence required of a statutory enforcer such as the HSA or the commercial relationship between insurance companies and their clients.

Where is our best practice destination?

Mr. Beegan

Every time an insurance company receives a proposal from a business, it should ensure that the business is in compliance with the minimum standards at least. Ideally, the business would be doing more than that. Insurers should assist businesses to get to the minimum standard, which is the legal standard, and then to stay there. The HSA would then be able to concentrate its limited resources on businesses which choose to flout the law flagrantly and, sometimes, to undercut other companies which have invested to some degree. The HSA believes that companies can invest 5% of overall labour costs during construction. The benefits of that investment are outstanding, however, given that the overall cost to the economy is €3 billion. The HSA believes that the investment is better. If I invest, the person who does not invest can undercut me on contracts.

That is why the HSA is pleased that local authorities intend to insist that anyone who gets a contract from a local authority — from the public purse — must be able to demonstrate compliance with the law. If we get to that position, all boats will gradually start to rise in that context. People will not think they can get away with it.

Does the practice of requiring compliance with the law extend to State companies as well?

Mr. Beegan

Absolutely. The HSA has contacted all the Departments in this regard. I have met various Secretaries General. The HSA has approached this matter in two ways. It has asked the Departments how, as employers, they have managed this matter and how they have brought the requirement to comply with legislation to the attention of the various groups to which they give funding. The authority is also working with the health care sector. It has completed an audit tool it hopes to roll out, in partnership with the various the health care groups, throughout that sector, which is one of this country's largest employers. The HSA believes that agencies funded by the public purse should not have to be inspected by other public agencies such as the HSA. The authority's role should be to assist and encourage those agencies which have not demonstrated compliance.

The HSA was one of the first organisations to develop radio and television advertisements in foreign languages to get in touch with non-Irish nationals working in the construction sector. It also developed the safe system of work plan, which is, essentially, an A4 sheet that uses various pictograms and colours to bypass language and communication barriers. It has piloted the plan in a number of areas of the construction industry. The HSA recently won an international award for its innovation in that regard. It needs to link to a greater extent with the system of application for permits. It has given funds to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to get the message across. It is clear that it has work to do with its colleagues at EU level to prioritise this area in the context of a new EU strategy, to ensure communication will not be a barrier to a worker maintaining his or her own safety. With the permission of the Chair, I invite Ms Dorgan to speak about the issue of prevention.

Ms Dorgan

The HSA must address four areas in which non-Irish nationals, especially the high percentage of them who do not speak English well, are at high risk. Mr. Beegan mentioned some of the campaigns in that regard. The HSA issues various materials in various languages, although it is not heavily reliant on languages. The HSA emphasises, when its inspectors visit inspection sites and it makes various promotions to employers, that employers are responsible for ensuring that their workers understand good safety practice so they can protect their safety. It is not good enough for employers simply to send workers on training courses or hand them safety statements. They must check that workers understand the importance of being safe when they are doing their work. That is central.

The HSA plans to embark on some research with non-Irish nationals later this year, which is something that needs to be done at this stage. It is obvious that a high percentage of them work in the construction sector, but approximately 20% of them work in the hotel and restaurant sector, for example. A number of injuries can arise in that sector. The HSA needs to understand fully the reasons for the higher risks in certain areas. It can guess why it is the case, but it needs to understand it fully. The authority will embark on some research and take action on foot of it.

Mr. Beegan

Deputy Quinn's final question related to corporate manslaughter, which was considered when the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, was dealing with the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005 in September of last year. It was decided at that stage, on the advice of the Office of the Attorney General, that more time was required. Section 80 of the 2005 Act, which places significant responsibilities on the directors of businesses — the controlling minds of enterprises — is quite strong. Approximately a year has passed since the director of a company was put in jail under the old Act for breaching health and safety regulations. Sufficient health and safety legislation is in place to ensure that those who flout the laws have no way out.

It is clear that all the regulations, codes of practice and forms of guidance will not deliver the results we need unless we, as a nation, change our attitude to health and safety. We need to change our behaviour not only at work, but also when driving to work, for example. We need to think safely. That is what this is fundamentally about. If we can make significant changes in respect of smoking, plastic bags and the economy in general, surely we can become the best in Europe in this area as well.

I share Mr. Beegan's analysis of this matter. It is a question of the carrot and the stick. The carrot that is being focused on by this committee is the possibility of a reduction in insurance costs. The stick must be the imposition of penalties which register with those on whom they are imposed. I am not sure I accept what Mr. Beegan said. I will examine the literature and do some research. Did the Attorney General elaborate on why more time was needed?

Mr. Beegan

I cannot recall the precise reason, to be honest. I think some legal arguments were made to indicate why it was not the right time.

Is Mr. Beegan intimating that the larger companies in the construction industry are good at meeting HSA standards and the problems arise in family businesses and among small contractors? Is it possible to require that a health and safety officer be appointed to oversee a job or project before a contract becomes legally binding? Is such a requirement in place in any other European Union member state? Is that proposal a runner?

Mr. Beegan

The Chairman is close to something in the sense that under construction regulations a person must be nominated to the position of health and safety officer if more than 20 people are employed on site. It would be useful to design safety into a project from the moment it is conceived. When a contract is awarded one of the criteria should be the potential partner's performance in the area of health and safety. The HSA is prepared to work with insurance companies and has already done so in the case of one company whose auditors we trained to the standard we would expect when they go on site visits. If companies are willing, we can work together to get more intelligence and concentrate on companies which need more help.

If the HSA and CIF got together and recommended to the Government that it introduce the obligation I suggested, the matter would be given serious consideration. It would strengthen everyone's hand if a contract could not be signed until a health and safety officer had been appointed because this officer would do much of the HSA's work. HSA officials cannot be everywhere. How could the HSA police the 50,000 planning permits granted this year? If a health and safety officer were appointed under every contract, a professional person would have responsibility for overseeing the regulations we are all trying to implement.

On the planning permission mechanism, can one legally provide that a reference to health and safety be a standard condition of a planning permission? Typically, the type of person the HSA pursues or investigates will not be a member of the CIF but will be a higher risk company. Given that the planning permit is the only permit required, has the HSA had discussions with local authorities on introducing in the planning process a requirement which would address the HSA agenda?

Mr. Beegan

While we have not had specific talks in regard to the planning process, the construction regulations are wide ranging and apply to all areas except domestic dwellings and individual once-off homes a person would have built for his or her personal use. At the root of this issue is the requirement that the person in charge of a project ensures the persons appointed are accountable and have influence in the overall organisation. The objective of the HSA is to ensure the person at the top recognises that health and safety is a measurable priority in the same way as finance is measurable. If we do not get movement on this across the whole economy, not only in construction, we will not make the progress required. Clearly, insurance companies have a role to play in this regard. As I indicated in my recommendation, the HSA should work with the insurance industry to develop and implement a verifiable system.

Does Mr. Egan wish to respond to Deputy Quinn's comments?

Mr. Egan

Yes, I am happy to do so. The Deputy asked if we had consulted the insurance industry on the development of the two plus one road type. When we were planning to introduce this road type we consulted the National Safety Council, as it was then known, whose members include representatives of the insurance industry. We also consulted the Garda Síochána, the Automobile Association, the high level group on road safety and others. The insurance sector had an input.

On the M50 upgrade and the Naas Road N7-N4 section of the Galway Road, I do not believe there is any real prospect of accelerating the timetable to which we are working. The contract has been awarded and work is under way on the ground. While I acknowledge that the M50 is an extremely difficult working environment given the volume of traffic on the road, I also note the NRA's good track record in recent years in terms of contractors completing projects on time and, in many instances, ahead of schedule. We will keep our fingers crossed but the key point is that work is under way.

I thank Mr. Egan for his response. Rather than communicating through the National Safety Council, I invite the NRA to open up a formal, direct line of communication with the Insurance Federation of Ireland, specifically to discuss how insurance premia can be reduced by better road design. Does the contract already awarded for the upgrade provide for work to continue for 24 hours per day, seven days per week?

Mr. Egan

No, the time periods within which work can be carried out are regulated by An Bord Pleanála under the planning approval. One of the considerations was that while we were anxious to try to maximise the extent to which work would be carried out over a 24 hour period, we had to be cognisant of the proximity of residential areas on many sections of the M50. For this reason, the board had to strike a balance in this respect. It is fair to conclude that the issue of working times has been stretched as far as it can within reason while respecting the right of local residents to a night's sleep.

The Deputy also asked whether the National Roads Authority is conscious of its impact on insurance premia and asked if we had a figure "on our radar". While we would not be particularly conscious of this matter, I emphasise that one of the key objectives the NRA is working to achieve is to have safer roads, thereby saving lives and reducing the number and severity of injuries. This is being done by adopting best international practice in road design and through various programmes which target accident risk areas on the existing network. The direct benefit of this approach for the insurance industry will be fewer and less severe accidents, which will help dampen the level of insurance premia in the vehicle road user sector.

I welcome both delegations and compliment the Health and Safety Authority on its co-operation with the insurance industry to implement safety measures. I note with alarm a statistic on road traffic accidents which shows that fatalities per capita are 25% lower in the United Kingdom than in Ireland. What are the British doing right that we are doing wrong?

Are non-national workers being given more dangerous tasks to do, with Irish workers standing back, as it were? One of the HSA conclusions is that insurance companies should reward good workplace health and safety practices. This is a key recommendation because companies will benefit from cheaper insurance premia if they implement HSA regulations. It always helps to hit people in their pockets.

I was requested to ask whether legislative provisions are in place to cover the quality of car tyres in use. Under EU legislation every tyre must be stamped but I am informed that many of the tyres sold here do not bear a stamp. Who is responsible for enforcing this requirement? I understand the National Car Test does not require such a stamp. It is wrong that tyres of inferior quality are being imported and permitted for use here. While they may be manufactured by recognised companies, they have been designed for different road conditions.

I am informed that many of the cars used by so-called boy racers are emblazoned with mobile telephone numbers to enable like-minded drivers to contact them. Is this correct?

I compliment the NRA on the great work it is carrying out in the west. Most major road projects have been carried out in the east but significant work is now being done in the west. I could not let this meeting pass without noting the delight of people in Cork with the opening of a second access route, particularly in view of the major development in the city.

Although the NRA had done excellent work, a major problem arises with regard to bridges. I refer to the bridge on the Gort-Loughrea road at Kilcreest which has been hit so many times. It would be in worse shape but for the strong concrete used to build it — cars always come off worst. There are bridges such as this all over the country and they are death traps. In some areas one can travel on a great road and suddenly come across such a bridge. The NRA has done great work but I would like to hear why these problem bridges have not been addressed.

I wish to refer to traffic calming measures. In some cases they are not properly lit, which leads to problems. I do not understand how they can be put in place without being properly highlighted. Adequate lighting is also required at major junctions on main roads.

I will finish by referring to the proposed decentralisation of the NRA to Ballinasloe. It is very welcome. Ballinasloe is a lovely place and staff of the NRA should not be afraid to come to it.

Mr. Beegan

The issues of boy racers, mobile phones and tyres do not come within our remit. They are probably more appropriate to the Department of Transport or the Garda Síochána. I will ask Mr. Roe to deal with the questions of non-national workers, why the UK rate is different and so on.

Mr. Roe

On non-nationals, we are doing research to find out exactly what the factors involved are but to date it appears they are going into the high risk sectors, namely, construction, agriculture, mining and quarrying. These sectors employ many non-nationals.

I do not wish to be pedantic but it was agreed in a convention some weeks ago that we would not use the phrase "non-nationals". They should be called foreigners or Europeans.

Mr. Roe

I agree. It is like non-Catholic or non-person.

I thank Deputy Quinn for that clarification.

Mr. Roe

The high rate of fatal injuries on construction sites of non-Irish workers from the EU 10 is approximately twice the average rate in the original EU 15. Culture and experience are factors. We have also found that the experience of some of those who have come to work in the construction industry may not be as great as they claim. Their experience may be in an industry that is less mechanised. For instance, many fatalities are due to people getting run over by workplace vehicles. Language is also a factor. However, there is a whole range of factors involved, which makes it more difficult to deal with than if it were simply a case of language.

In regard to the difference with the UK rate, we can come up with some reasons but they are not adequate to explain it. For instance, we could say there was a different mix of industry. More houses were constructed in Ireland than in the whole of the United Kingdom last year. Ireland also has a higher growth rate. Countries with a higher growth rate in some sectors tend to have a considerably higher rate of injury. Even when we strip all these factors out——

Is a time element involved?

Mr. Roe

It is partly due to the time element but it is also the case that if one has a higher growth rate, one has a lot of new employees. The first few weeks in a new job present the highest risk. More experienced employees tend to have fewer accidents. Immigration is a big factor, as many of those coming here come from economies where there is a higher risk of being injured. They bring a different culture with them. We still think the United Kingdom is doing something different but have yet to learn what that is. Its fatal accident rate is by far the lowest in Europe. Our rate is somewhere in the middle but we should not be content with this. Our aim is to be even better. We must keep moving in that direction

Is that also the case with productivity and safety levels in the United Kingdom?

Mr. Roe

Yes.

Mr. Beegan

The level of enforcement action there is higher. The number to enforce the law in the United Kingdom is about one third more than here in terms of inspectors.

Is there a requirement in the contract for a safety officer to be appointed?

Mr. Beegan

We have a stricter regime than that which pertains in the United Kingdom.

We should go down that route.

Mr. Egan

We have heard the sentiments expressed in regard to Ballinasloe. I will ask Mr. Cullen to comment on the traffic calming and maintenance issues and the lighting of bollards.

I am not personally responsible for the bridge between Gort and Loughrea to which Deputy Callanan referred but we will follow up the issue. We do have a number of pools of money, one of which is targets accident risk areas through limited investment. We also have a separate pool for more extensive treatments. We will follow up the matter with the local authority and if our proposal is appropriate, it will be brought forward for consideration by the authority.

All the traffic calming schemes are built to a certain standard according to the relevant guidelines. Attrition takes place, in that over time lights are hit and not replaced. Two years ago we set up two maintenance contracts, one for the north and one for the south of the country. Local authorities are supposed to notify the contractors if a sign, bollard or light is hit. It is the responsibility of the contractor to carry out the necessary repairs in the specified time. Matters have improved considerably since that regime was put in place.

Procedures are developed on an ongoing basis to improve the situation and make matters safer. Research has shown that in most cases when lights, signs or bollards are hit, it is due to inappropriate speed levels. The reason traffic calming measures were introduced in the first place was people were driving too fast, either going into or coming out of town. Such measures are taken for a reason and we rely on the maintenance contractor to make sure repairs are carried out in good time.

I have three questions for the National Roads Authority. Its network carries 40% of road traffic. What proportion of fatal accidents occur on national roads? How many died on such roads last year? Does the NRA have a target for the reduction in the number of deaths? Does it give advice to local authorities on the design and safety of non-national roads? In its view, what standard of safety is being applied? We require this information for the compilation of our final report.

Mr. Egan

The proportion of fatalities occurring on national roads is approximately 33%. The most recent figures, in respect of which a comprehensive analysis has been carried out, relate to 2004.

Will Mr. Egan provide a copy of the figures for our consultant?

Mr. Egan

I have a copy and will make it available after the meeting. I do not have the number of fatalities which occurred on national roads to hand but the report should clarify this. We do not have a specific target in reducing the number of deaths on national roads. In the initial road safety strategy for the period 1998 to 2002 the Government set an objective to reduce the number of fatalities generally on all public roads by 20%. That target was met. I do not believe there is a similar target in the current strategy that runs to the end of this year. The authority's primary objective is to deliver on specific elements of the current road safety strategy that apply directly to it. As stated earlier, those specific targets relate to the 240 locations where there is a higher risk of accidents and where, over a three-year period, we will be obliged to implement accident remediation measures. We must carry out traffic calming at 60 locations and substantial expenditure is involved in eliminating or reducing accident risk factors at a further 20 locations. The authority must also address the issues of the wearing of seat belts and speed. This is the agenda mapped out by the Government and we are working to comply with it.

On the co-operation of local authorities regarding non-national roads, the authorities take account of our standards to some extent but the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has its own procedures regarding such roads. It is the primary source. We work with local authorities when seeking to identify accident locations on the network and they help to determine appropriate solutions. The NRA and the Department combine to come to the aid of individual county councils regarding local and regional roads.

I apologise for being late. The delay was outside my control.

Was the Deputy held up on the M50?

The Gorey bypass is a problem. My colleague, Mr. Egan, whom the Chairman will be glad to know wore the purple and gold, will be quite familiar with the Gorey bypass.

The Deputy is speaking the right language now.

On a more serious note, does either authority have a curricular input into the CSPE programme in second level schools? This is where awareness should be created. I am aware of safe cross codes at primary school level but, as a secondary school teacher, I have never come across any at second level. There has been no input. Within two weeks of my being elected, I recommended that some of the driving theory for the driving test should be taught in schools.

My second question is for the NRA. What percentage of its budget is devoted to making the public aware of what is happening on our roads?

Mr. Beegan

We have just completed a pilot project with 16 schools in the west, largely focusing on transition year students. Members of our staff, with Mary Dorgan and a person we appointed specifically to work with the education sector, divide these pilot projects. The teachers were given specific training by our staff and representatives of Teagasc and other bodies that could help us. The teachers were awarded certificates for completing the course and returned to the schools and taught their students. This is one practical measure we implemented since our chairman, Jim Lyons, came on board. Mr. Lyons is a former CEO of Clare VEC.

We received a commitment from the Department of Education and Science, through the Secretary General, to form a high level group consisting of me, Mary Dorgan, Joanne Harmon and senior officials to work out how we can use the Department of Education and Science, as an employer, to do what is best and how we can integrate our message into the curriculums of various schools. From primary school to third and fourth levels, every course should be health and safety-proofed. For example, we have received a commitment that all courses agreed or accredited by the ITs will be health and safety-proofed, and those that are up for renewal will also be so proofed. The NCCA is probing to determine where the gaps are and how they can be bridged.

Although this is a long-term objective, we believe it is of fundamental importance to integrate our message into the overall education process, such that people who leave school and will be going to work for the first time this summer, for example, may not have to acquire the Safe Pass because they will have covered the material concerned in the transition period. The induction they receive at the workplace will supplement this and will drive the culture of safety among a range of people, from the very young to adults.

Senator Quinn played a role in introducing a new type of leaving certificate that is much more work-related.

The leaving certificate applied.

There is wonderful scope in this regard for the HSA to become involved at a curricular level and this should be achieved.

Recommendation No. 55 in our third interim report stated that the National Council for Curricular Assessment should make early provision for the inclusion of the driver theory test for secondary school students as part of their transition year studies. The Deputy had a strong input into this. In addition, secondary schools should be required to provide simulated driving instruction for all students on reaching 17 years. Does Mr. Beegan agree?

Mr. Beegan

Absolutely. We need to promote a holistic concept of safety among the young so that it will not be compartmentalised as is the case at present. We have a small nation of just over 4 million people and, therefore, we cannot adopt a fragmented approach. We need to co-operate and prioritise what will work and change behaviour. I fundamentally support the recommendation and that is why Mary Dorgan is heading the initiative in the education systems.

For how long will the pilot scheme last?

Mr. Beegan

It has concluded.

Would it be possible to provide the committee with the findings?

Mr. Beegan

Absolutely. We are carrying out an independent evaluation that we will present to the board very soon. We will be glad to make it available to the committee.

Ms Dorgan

We could not agree more. The most strategic step we can take is to influence the curriculum because this is where long-term culture change can be effected.

Traditionally, we have been approached by schools to talk to the pupils about health and safety because they are concerned about it. We were sometimes approached by third level colleges with a view to our having an input into their curricula. The only way to do this is to work from the top and through organisations such as the NCCA. We are in partnership with this authority and, following the probe, we will be able to say, by the end of the year, precisely where health and safety features on the curriculum, from early learning right through to third level. We will then address the gaps incrementally over a number of years. We find that there is an appetite for this. The opportunity for us lies at the leaving certificate applied and vocational levels. SPHE is to be included in the senior cycle curriculum and we are at the right stage to influence this. Given the small size of our organisation, this is the cost-effective way for us to proceed — otherwise it would be done in a piecemeal fashion. We are working with the support of the Department.

The committee feels very strongly about this and is taking its investigation to the United States next week. Deputy Tony Dempsey will be part of the delegation. The investigation also concerns the traffic corps because we feel 80% of all accidents are speed-related. The law does not instil fear in drivers and we want a traffic corps to restore it. We are also trying to bring about culture change, as alluded to by Ms Dorgan. We are trying to find examples of best practice to analyse why they are working so well in the areas concerned.

Mr. Egan

We support the sentiments expressed on the importance of education. In my opening statement, I commented on the need for action in the areas of education and engineering and for enforcement. Driver responsibility is also important. If we do not move on all four levels and exploit the opportunities to the maximum extent, we will fall short of what could otherwise be achieved. That is the reality.

The primary role of the NRA involves engineering and it will continue to be active in this area. We are conscious of the safety agenda and we continually seek to improve the standard and performance of our roads in that regard.

I suspect that the new national road safety authority is likely to take a particular interest in the educational aspect and presents an opportunity to further co-ordinate work in this area, be it through advertising campaigns to increase awareness of safety risks and hazards or, I hope, through education in second level schools. The Road Safety Authority is also undertaking a role in driver testing, new Rules of the Road publication and such issues. There is liaison with the authority on the update of the Rules of the Road and so on.

Deputy Tony Dempsey also asked about the extent of expenditure by the authority on public awareness of what we are doing. In percentage terms, that is a minuscule element of our budget, some low hundreds of thousands of euro. We are not particularly active on the publicity front and we let the work on the ground speak for the authority. The benefits will, I hope, be seen as reality by road users throughout the country because the network is starting to come together.

Recently, the NRA appointed a new head of communications and I hope that will give us some added impact in that area. We will continue with our standard activity in terms of keeping the public informed at local level on road schemes which affect them — booklets on road openings and so on — but there is scope for further activity on the engineering aspect of the authority's work.

The best news from the authority comes in the form of a statement to the effect "road completed ahead of time and on budget". The NRA is to be congratulated in that regard. I read some very strong views earlier about traffic flows on the M50 and flows adjacent to the city centres, particularly Dublin. The authority is to be congratulated on what it has been doing in that regard.

I thank the representatives of the Health and Safety Authority and the National Roads Authority for attending. We look forward to working closely with them in producing a final report. We would be grateful for any statistical data that can be supplied to our consultant, Myles O'Reilly.

We are also examining the technology of the black box. If any of those in attendance have any experience or expertise in that field, we would appreciate hearing about it. Next week we are going to consider the operation and success of that technology in a couple of American states and we would be grateful for any information on how it works. I understand that it is very successful in parts of Germany. This is all part of an effort to reduce speed, restore people's fear of the law and, as Ms Dorgan stated, place this matter on the school curriculum.

I apologise that this matter has taken up so much time. As the committee has no further business to conduct, it stands adjourned.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.45 a.m. sine die.

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