I welcome the representatives from Junior Achievement Ireland, Ms Della Clancy, executive director, and Ms Alva O'Sullivan, marketing and communications director. I draw their attention to the fact that while members of the committee enjoy absolute privilege, this same privilege does not extend to witnesses. I also remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Junior Achievement Ireland: Presentation.
Ms Della Clancy
I thank the joint committee for its kind invitation to address it this morning. I am the executive director of Junior Achievement Ireland and my colleague is Ms Alva O'Sullivan, our marketing and communications director. We propose to make a short presentation and will be delighted to answer any questions which members may have.
I will begin by speaking about what we mean by "enterprise education". The days when entrepreneurship and education were separate are increasingly in the past. To their mutual benefit, more and more bridges link the two. Junior Achievement Ireland considers there are three key objectives in enterprise education. The first is increasing the understanding of what entrepreneurship is about; the second is equipping young students with an entrepreneurial approach incorporating the personal attitudes of self-confidence and self-efficacy and the ability to take risks, identify opportunities and organise the resources needed to capitalise on those opportunities, while the third is to prepare individuals to act as entrepreneurs through the establishment of mini companies in a classroom setting. In the delivery and content of our programmes we include all three objectives. My colleague will tell the committee a little more about the organisation.
Ms Alva O’Sullivan
Junior Achievement Ireland was established in 1995 and provides 17 sequential enterprise programmes for young people aged five to 18 years. We work in almost 500 schools. All the programmes are taught by business volunteers from local companies and vary in duration from six to 12 weeks. The business volunteer visits the class for one hour a week during that period. All programmes follow the learning-by-doing methodology, which means the business volunteer works with the children on hands-on activities. Among the key skills children learn through the programmes are critical thinking, problem solving, teamwork and decision-making. In addition to teaching the programme, the business volunteer brings up to the minute career guidance to the students. Many volunteers bring students back to their company for what we call a "job shadow" day. Recently I attended a job shadow day at Wyeth BioPharma in Clondalkin which was also attended by students from the local primary and secondary schools. They job shadowed some of the employees who worked in the laboratories, marketing and human resources divisions which allowed them to see the range of a jobs at a company such as Wyeth and develop a feeling for the culture in the company.
This year Junior Achievement Ireland reached 50,000 students. This involved the recruitment and training of 2,000 business volunteers. We operate in 21 of the 26 counties, as well as the six counties of Northern Ireland. Junior Achievement Ireland has six offices which are located in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway and Letterkenny and works with over 150 supporting companies. We have prepared a pack for members which sets out our activities in each of their constituencies. They will notice that there are areas which we have not yet reached owing to limited resources.
In the past school year our achievements include the development of a new science and engineering programme, Challenge Science, which was run in Dublin, Cork, Waterford and Galway. Approximately 1,200 students participated in science and engineering workshops with business volunteers from the pharmaceutical, health care and information technology sectors. We translated our first programme into Irish, Ár gCathair, which was launched at the gaelscoil in Mahon in Cork in February. We run two innovative and exciting cross-Border residential camps for 1,200 students. The camps use enterprise education to break down barriers on opposite sides of the divide. Our latest programme is an intensive enterprise programme for students from acutely disadvantaged areas, mainly in urban centres. It takes place over one year and students have four junior achievement programme experiences throughout the school year. They are taught a junior achievement programme by a business volunteer for eight weeks, followed by a visit to a local university or institute of technology where they spend one day taking part in enterprise workshops. They also take part in a job shadow day in a local company and at the end of the year attend an outdoor activity centre to learn about individual and team challenges.
Ms Clancy
I turn now to Government policy on enterprise education with a recent quote from the Minister, Deputy Martin. He said enterprise education was contributing to the strong economic development of the country and had been acknowledged in two recent significant policy reports — the reports of the enterprise strategy group and the small business forum which outlined a recommended strategic approach to enterprise education. As it happens, they recommended Junior Achievement Ireland as a leading provider of enterprise education. The enterprise strategy group report, Ahead of the Curve, led to an action plan which encouraged schools to participate in junior achievement programmes. Just last month the small business forum report, Small Business Is Big Business, cited such programmes as an initiative which developed commercial awareness and fostered an entrepreneurial mindset among students at each level of the education system. We are gratified to have been singled out in such significant policy reports.
Junior Achievement Ireland has an excellent model of enterprise education which brings real life entrepreneurs into the classroom to teach young people about the world of work and the opportunities on offer. This is very important, especially in areas of disadvantage where many of the students with whom we deal have a very limited connection to the world of industry. Many come from backgrounds in which people do not go out to work in the morning. Sadly, in some communities the local entrepreneur is the drug dealer who is the person with the biggest car and the students almost see him as a role model. We provide an antidote by giving young people a strong link with business which they would not otherwise have.
I can speak with confidence about our excellent programmes because we spend a great deal of time, money and effort evaluating them. Each year we appoint independent external evaluators who report on our programmes. The evaluations are outstanding and show that all the learning goals, aims and objectives of our programmes are being met, if not exceeded. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment provides support for enterprise education through the city and county enterprise boards. It does not, however, provide any support for Junior Achievement Ireland. The enterprise boards provide support for teachers who run mini companies in schools, typically during transition year. The boards also run an annual student enterprise competition for mini companies. I understand from them that approximately 10,000 young people enter each year. To put this in context, the school population is 446,000 at primary level and 336,000 at secondary level. Through the enterprise boards, the Department supports 1% of that population. If one excludes primary schools and concentrates on secondary schools, 3% of the student population is supported.
Enterprise education is great and any addition to what we do is excellent. However, the one-off provision of education in transition year for a limited number of students is exclusive as we find the most disadvantaged schools do not run a transition year. When the main effort is a competition for mini companies, the middle classes are favoured. Disadvantaged kids do not win such competitions, while schools which are well resourced and have parents who offer great support to children shine. There is a case for the Department to offer more support for enterprise education through Junior Achievement Ireland. We have an excellent model of best practice in the provision of such education. We have already reached 210,000 children and are reaching students at a rate of 50,000 per annum. We have built up this rate gradually in the past ten years. We can either stay at this level or, with very modest support from the Department, undertake a significant expansion. We would love to do more. We have outlined a strategy to the Department, whereby we can increase our provision in the coming three years by 30,000 to ensure that by 2009 we would be reaching 80,000 students every year. Included in this figure would be 5,000 of the most acutely disadvantaged students who would enjoy a deep and intensive experience throughout the school year.
We argue strongly that the Department should take a lead in this matter. We would like to expand in the areas in which we are currently working and to move into areas we cannot currently reach through lack of resources. As Ms O'Sullivan said, we are working in 21 counties. Those in which we have no presence include several midland counties, as well as County Kerry. To achieve this expansion, we require additional business volunteers each year.
In terms of finance, we have submitted a costed proposal to the Department seeking funding of €2 million over a three-year period. For that relatively low level of commitment, our proposal offers excellent value for money. We guarantee that any funds provided by the Department will be matched by the private sector. Some of those in the private sector who provide us with funds have expressed disappointment that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment does not contribute to our activities.
As members of Junior Achievement Europe, we are aware that the majority of our fellow organisations in other European countries receive state support for their work. In Britain, for example, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Gordon Brown, recently invested major funding in Junior Achievement. Our fellow organisations are also well funded in Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Holland and elsewhere in Europe.
It is correct that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment should take a lead in enterprise education. I feel more confident in saying that following the two recent reports to which we referred, both of which cited the work of Junior Achievement Ireland. We are the largest provider of enterprise education in the State and it is time for the Department to be enterprising in its approach. The provision of funding from the Department would trigger increased support for our activities from the private sector.
I hope the committee will support the work of Junior Achievement Ireland. I would be delighted to meet members individually to explain the work we are doing in their local areas.
I thank the delegates for their excellent presentation. I am aware that Junior Achievement Ireland is doing excellent work in several schools with which I am familiar. It is a great idea to bring people who have done well in business into the classroom because it instils in the minds of young people that they can do the same.
I join the Acting Chairman in welcoming the delegates and I congratulate them on the excellent work in which they are engaged. That work may not be widely known because it has been concerned with attaining quietly effective achievements over a period. In the last several months, however, it has done more to let people know about its ongoing work in the education system.
Enterprise education is critically important in terms of creating a climate and culture of entrepreneurship among young people. The reports to which the delegates referred signal the importance of the cultural change we must make in order to facilitate the establishment of successful small businesses. Such businesses can come under pressure but they can also do much to enhance rural and urban communities by providing new business opportunities. There is much emphasis on foreign direct investment but that is a scarce resource. Junior Achievement Ireland is fostering the cultural change required to ensure that we have a bottom-up approach to enterprise development.
Have the delegates met the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and his departmental officials to discuss their costed proposal and the associated objectives? If so, what type of response did they receive? I get the impression that the response may not have been positive. Is there anything the committee can do to enhance support for the proposal?
Who evaluates Junior Achievement Ireland's course and module work? Is it required to be approved by somebody as suitable material for entrepreneurial activity and enterprise education in the classroom?
Ms Clancy
To answer the Deputy's first question, I had a positive meeting last January with the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, at which he expressed a keen interest in our work. I had approximately one hour to detail the content of our programmes, our methodology, the companies that support us and so on. He asked me to compile a three-year roadmap outlining what we plan to achieve in that timeframe and the resources that would be required to do so.
After submitting this roadmap, I had a second meeting with the Minister in March. I was disappointed that this meeting was not as positive as the first. The Minister explained that the funds the Department provides in this area are channelled through the county enterprise boards. However, this meeting took place prior to the publication of the report of the small business forum, which also commended the activities of Junior Achievement Ireland. I am hopeful that this may have had an impact on the Department.
Junior Achievement Ireland has an elaborate evaluation strategy in place. By constantly evaluating our work, we learn how to improve our programmes and make them more relevant. Each year we undertake internal evaluations under several different headings, incorporating the experience of pupils, business volunteers, teachers, school principals and all other stakeholders. In addition, several external evaluations are ongoing and I would be pleased to provide copies of these evaluations to any members who request them. The external evaluations are undertaken according to various strategies that may involve rather specialist assessments, such as a measurement of attitudinal changes. It is quite a simple matter to evaluate the learning goals of a particular programme and see they have been understood. To measure our success in changing the attitudes of pupils to entrepreneurial activity, however, is quite a skilled type of evaluation.
We are fortunate that we can avail of the services of excellent evaluators. Some of them are appointed from a panel of evaluators who are acceptable to various bodies with which we have dealings. They are experienced in their field and their work is highly commended. I would be pleased to provide members with copies of their reports. In regard to our cross-Border project, which is funded by the International Fund for Ireland, we must use a panel of external evaluators who have been approved by that body.
I endorse the comments made by Deputy Hogan. In reply to a parliamentary question I put to the Minister on this topic, he said — as Ms Clancy confirmed — that funding is channelled through the county enterprise boards. How much funding is Junior Achievement Ireland seeking from the Department? Does this funding apply specifically to the educational side of its work? In the reply to which I refer, the Minister stated:
State funding for enterprise promotion, including the promotion of enterprise within the education system, is primarily channelled through the relevant State Agencies. The County and City Enterprise Boards (CEBs) have a well-established role in the delivery of enterprise education. As part of their enterprise promotion activities the CEBs support teachers in the delivery of enterprise programmes designed to give students practical experience of setting up and running their own business.
What is the scale of that support in terms of funding?
Ms Clancy
I am aware of the enterprise education provided by the enterprise boards but I do not know how much funding they receive from the Department.
Is it Ms Clancy's experience that the support they provide is confined to running the business competition for students? Is this the core activity the enterprise boards provide to the school system?
Ms Clancy
I understand that they provide support to teachers who run the mini-company competitions. I am not sure what this support involves but I presume it consists of helping them submit their entries and so on.
I presume this varies from board to board in terms of quality and input.
Ms Clancy
I am not sure in which locations this activity is particularly strong.
That is fine. The rest is self-explanatory and I do not need to ask any more questions.
I welcome both witnesses to the meeting. I am disappointed and surprised that no primary or secondary schools in County Roscommon are included in the programme. I wonder why a county would be left out, while others are well represented and active. The county enterprise boards are involved with some enterprises in schools. Perhaps that is the reason Junior Achievement Ireland is not active in Roscommon, or maybe JAI was not given an opportunity of going into the schools there. The programme seems to be well targeted and I certainly hope it can be spread nationwide. It is represented in 23 counties but some more than others.
The principle is good and JAI is well supported. Has JAI sought funds from the Department of Education and Science? Have the witnesses spoken to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin? There should be matching funding to assist such projects in CLÁR areas, although I am not sure if the witnesses have made a case to the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív. The CLÁR programme is very much in keeping with the whole objective of regional and rural development. I suggest that Junior Achievement Ireland should put its case to both Departments, as well as the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. It would present an opportunity to obtain support from them. The witnesses are right to put their case forward now. I am quite sure that when the Department of Finance looks at the Estimates for next year it will act if the JAI can get the principle accepted. Deputy Quinn, a committee member who is a former Minister for Finance, would know the situation. If the JAI can get its foot in the door and get some recognition for its work, it can make a positive contribution. There is some hope in the fact that the Minister has suggested the JAI present a roadmap containing a three-year programme.
I propose that the joint committee should recommend to the Minister through the committee's secretariat that, having met the witnesses today and having heard their submission, he should include in next year's Estimates provision for the work of Junior Achievement Ireland. That is as far as we can go in this committee.
Ms Clancy
I thank the Senator for his support. We have not yet approached the Department of Education and Science for finance. Initially, we are approaching the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, an action triggered by these two reports. The board of Junior Achievement Ireland had decided that, rather than seeking finance and saying what we were going to do, we would wait until we had a significant achievement and say "Look, this is what we have done. This is what we have established. Will you come on board now and support it?" We had a strategic plan to bring us up to 50,000 students this year. We did not make any submissions to the people who made these reports. I found out almost by accident, as it were, that both of these reports had cited Junior Achievement Ireland as the model of enterprise education. Since they were commissioned by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, it seemed natural to me to approach that Department. Obviously, there might be a danger of falling between two stools if I made approaches to both Departments at the same time. We would love to have a bigger presence in Roscommon.
There is no presence now. I cannot understand how JAI has no school in the county. For some reason, Roscommon has not even attracted an interest in the junior achievement award enterprise. It is a great opportunity for young people to be exposed to industry and development locally and to realise what is happening in their areas. They have direct access to business people in that way. My colleague, Senator White, has great experience in that field. The whole idea of exposing young people to industry is very worthwhile and enables them to get a feeling for it. I urge JAI to go to Roscommon.
Ms Clancy
I would be delighted to do so.
I thank Ms Clancy for her excellent presentation. Page 56 of the report of the small business forum tells us in detail what to do. It is a bit of lateral thinking. It mentions the lack of entrepreneurial training in the educational system and how limited it is. It calls for the full implementation of the enterprise strategy group's recommendations relating to entrepreneurship. It suggests that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment should work with the Department of Education and Science to bring about the implementation of the recommendations. The report also said that specific indicators should be established to monitor progress on the implementation of these recommendations. If I were Ms Clancy, I would go after that recommendation in the small business forum, otherwise this document will sit on a shelf. It need to be driven forward. I have undertaken research on child care, aging and ageism, but few recommendations have been implemented in this regard. Ms Clancy's organisation could drive that situation.
The same report referred to reinforcing entrepreneurship in the education system. It adds that there are currently a number of initiatives aimed at developing commercial awareness and fostering entrepreneurial mindsets among students at each level of the education system, for example, Junior Achievement. It is there in black and white. Ms Clancy should talk to some members of the small business forum and respond to that section. The fact that the witnesses are here at all shows their initiative. This is the right place to be but it will not be easy to get funds. It is very difficult to get funds from any Department. It does not happen overnight but if one goes about it in the right way and is persistent, it can be done. This is a recommendation by this group. I would drive the matter with both Ministers. I suggest that Ms Clancy should also go to the Secretaries General and assistant secretaries of both Departments. She will need to have the influence of both Departments.
I believe in what Deputy Hogan said earlier — that we must have indigenous industry and our own entrepreneurs. We cannot rely totally on international investment, although it is getting us out of a corner now. We need to develop our own industry and there are plenty of role models. Nonetheless, people underestimate how difficult it is to be a successful entrepreneur. In my own business, my partner and I worked 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 16 years. It was 24/7 for 16 years. Hail, rain and snow, one has to be there morning, noon and night. It is not easy to be an entrepreneur. People think that someone just starts up a business, but it is very difficult.
I think Ms Clancy is on the right track and what her organisation is doing is excellent. I am sure all of us on this committee will support her. Ms Clancy and Ms O'Sullivan should go after that themselves.
Ms Clancy
I thank the Senator for her advice. I am known for my persistence.
Exactly. She will get there in the end.
I welcome both representatives to the meeting. I am impressed to discover that my constituency, Cork East, is a model. Looking at the northern side of the constituency and the list of companies supporting JAI, however, the same number of schools do not appear to be involved. JAI is dominant in Fermoy, Midleton and Youghal, but it does not seem to have the same presence in schools in Mallow and Mitchelstown. How is it that JAI is dominant in some areas but not in others? Does JAI have an organiser or is the work done voluntarily?
Ms O’Sullivan
We have three staff in Cork who run the whole Cork region. The reason we are not in north Cork, including Mitchelstown, is that we have not managed to source a company to support us there. We obviously need funding and business volunteers to run the programmes. We have had difficulty in Youghal recently as well. We have a lot of support from companies in places such as Carrigtwohill. We have funding and volunteers there. That is really what it comes down to in some of the regions where we are not active.
Deputy Ned O'Keeffe will find somebody.
He is one of the most successful farmers in Ireland.
Once upon a time we used to have full employment in north Cork but I am concerned that in the past two years things have dwindled frighteningly because of our dependence on the Sugar Company and Dairygold. We do not have any American enterprises. In east Cork, in Carrigtwohill, there is a cluster development involving quite a number of companies. I am examining what I can do to generate more involvement. I will talk to a couple of schools because we have some very innovative teachers who are involved in the commercial world.
The directors of community development in each local authority are charged with certain responsibilities to help the community to foster enterprise. Each local authority has a budget. Has JAI examined that as another way into the local community?
Ms Clancy
Yes, we have. We have support from a number of county and city councils throughout Ireland. We get great support from them in terms of volunteers. In Deputy Ned O'Keeffe's constituency we had 40 volunteers from Cork County Council going into the schools this year.
Ms O’Sullivan
And 20 from the city council.
Where are they from?
Ms Clancy
They come from various sectors, including architecture, city planning and landscaping. They show different careers to young people. They explain what their career involves and how they got it, as well as what courses one needs to pursue in order to achieve such a career. They also explain the opportunities available in the business world. Career guidance in Ireland is somewhat limited. It is great to bring in real life practitioners to talk to students in the classroom. Ideally, our programmes are sequential, so one year children might have somebody in from Pfeizer Pharmaceuticals telling them about that company. The following year they might have a county council landscaper, and the year after they might have somebody from EMC or Boston Scientific. That exposes students to different industries and sectors.
I have two brief questions. Is there a business ethic to the JAI's programme, including rates of pay and such matters? A matter that has arisen recently is the pay rates for foreign workers. Does the JAI programme involve an environmental impact study of industry?
Ms Clancy
Yes. We have a range of programmes for the different age groups. We have 18 different programmes, which embody all the different concepts referred to by the Acting Chairman. They include teaching business ethics and economic literacy to young people in an age-appropriate way. The theme of all the programmes centres on being an entrepreneur and starting a business. They certainly cover the aforementioned concepts.
We have heard as much as we need to hear about the great work being done. All the members here would like to be supportive. In order to move this forward, I propose that the committee recommend to the Minister, Deputy Martin, that in the context of the 2007 Estimates he should consider a heading to assist the enterprise education model, as proposed by Junior Achievement Ireland.
I strongly support that proposal.
We have been given the documentation and the evidence so we do not need to probe it further. It is self-explanatory. To get to the next stage it might be useful, in the context of Deputy Hogan's proposal, to invite the senior officials in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for the county enterprise boards. In that way the committee could obtain some facts and figures behind the question I read out earlier. Presumably that would be the subhead from which the support would flow. If they are already using the subhead of the county enterprise boards to provide support to the teachers in the system, that is the door to open. Obviously, we will have to get more money behind that door but it is the entry to the Estimates for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. We can examine it further.
In support of what Deputy Hogan has said, in the first instance we might invite the officials who are directly responsible for the county enterprise boards to talk to us about this.
Yes.
Arising from what they might say, we can act. I accept Deputy Hogan's proposal but let us equip ourselves with facts from the other side and move on.
Have the JAI representatives spoken to the enterprise board people in individual counties?
Ms O’Sullivan
No, we have not.
The representatives should do so because they are looking for micro-industry projects. I was on the evaluation committee of the Dublin City Enterprise Board when it started up initially about ten or 12 years ago. Its mandate was to develop micro-industry. The JAI is trying to get into children's minds before they set up a micro-industry. As well as sitting down with the departmental representatives, I think Ms Clancy and Ms O'Sullivan should also talk to the people in local authorities who are responsible for the county enterprise boards and entrepreneurial activity. I suggest they should do that immediately because they might obtain funds directly from them also.
Ms Clancy
I thank the Senator for her suggestion.
They have plenty of opportunities. I support what Deputy Hogan and Deputy Quinn have said. The representatives should discuss the matter with others, as they have done with this committee. They must get to the people with influence.
I am very supportive of Deputy Hogan's proposal, but I have one question. What sort of involvement does Enterprise Ireland have, since it deals with indigenous industry? Did Enterprise Ireland do anything for the JAI representatives? It deals with the indigenous side of things and would be looking at the bigger picture. I would not have that much confidence in the county enterprise boards.
The Deputy cannot say that.
I will say what I want and the Senator can say what she wishes.
I do not think the Deputy should make a blanket statement like that.
Does JAI have any involvement with other State agencies, such as Enterprise Ireland in particular and the IDA?
Ms Clancy
I have met with them but we do not get any support from them.
If they were invited to give a talk would they come into a school to do so?
Ms Clancy
I have tried to recruit business volunteers but I have not been successful.
We have a proposal that the clerk should write to the appropriate officials to invite them here to see how we can take this matter forward.
To be fair to the officials of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the brief should be to ask them what actions they are currently pursuing to promote enterprise education. That would open the door to a focused discussion, whether it concerns Enterprise Ireland or other bodies.
It is in all the reports. The last one was chaired by Joe Mackey, the Microsoft executive. If he does not know——
The committee is recommending that the Minister should make the political decision to support the enterprise education model as proposed and outlined by Junior Achievement Ireland.
We should send a letter to the Minister requesting him to make the officials available to us from the enterprise boards.
I thank both witnesses for attending the committee. Their submission was substantial. They already know that the committee is supportive of their work, which is necessary.
The Acting Chairman is correct.
We support this type of education, particularly in schools that may not be as well developed as others. I congratulate the witnesses on their work. They have the full support of the committee on the way forward. I thank them for attending the committee.
Ms Clancy
I thank the Acting Chairman and other members of the committee.
As there is no further business the meeting stands adjourned .
The joint committee adjourned at 10.20 a.m. sine die.