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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 13 May 2009

Corporate Social Responsibility: Discussion.

I welcomeMr. Kieran McGowan, chairman, and Mr. Tomás Sercovich, senior corporate responsibility consultant, from Business in the Community Ireland. I thank them for attending and apologise for delaying them. Having served us well in the past, Mr. McGowan will be aware that meetings sometimes drag on longer than expected. He will be familiar from his previous role with some of the matters we were discussing in private session. Perhaps it would have been advantageous to us if he had been present during our discussion.

Before we begin, I draw attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. Kieran McGowan

We are grateful for the opportunity to discuss the issue of corporate responsibility. I am the chairman of Business in the Community Ireland and my colleague, Tomás Sercovich, is senior consultant for corporate responsibility. Business in the Community Ireland is a non-profit business network which represents approximately 50 of the country's leading companies. Our mission is to develop Ireland into an international leader in responsible and sustainable business practices. Since our inception in 2000 we have used our expertise to inspire, support and challenge Irish companies to make a positive impact on the environment, workplaces and communities. We do this by offering a range of tailored services, including strategic advice and consultancy on integrating responsible business practices. We employ a number of top-class experts, of whom Tomás is one, to help companies embed good practice.

Our aim today is to outline the role of good practice and corporate responsibility in economic competitiveness and the importance for the Government to promote and encourage responsible business practices. When world trade begins to grow once again, it will be important that we as a nation are sufficiently competitive to take part in the global recovery. During our last recession, we got our act together towards of the end of the 1980s through the Programme for National Recovery. Clearly, it is important we put ourselves in that position again so that when the good times and growth return, we can secure our fair share of what is going. Part and parcel of that will be to encourage our exporters to qualify for contracts from companies that have sophisticated qualifications. For example, many construction companies, in particular, are interested in securing work for the London Olympics in 2012. They need it because the construction sector is having a tough time. Many of the purchasers of services and products related to the games have adopted pre-qualification criteria for companies relating to the environment and the communities they work in. Several companies have failed to secure work because they did not meet the criteria. That is a lost opportunity but it is an example of where having good practices gets one inside the fence to win new business. We want more recognition and promotion of good business practices by the Government. Mr. Sercovich will comment on what we would like the Government to do.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

I thank the committee for the invitation to address it. I refer to the issue of competitiveness and the fact that companies are required increasingly to show such practices are embedded in their organisations. We have worked over the past 18 months on the development of a toolkit and standard of best practice to recognise companies that have achieved a minimum level of integration of social, economic and environmental dimensions in the way they operate. We hope to launch the tool in the coming months. I am delighted we have worked in partnership with the National Standards Authority of Ireland in this regard and the authority will be a partner as a third party, independent audit and verification service. Such a tool should be regarded as critical for companies and the Government should adopt a stance on recognising and encouraging more companies to apply for it. Interesting examples include Enterprise Ireland and the supports it offers to companies that want to achieve ISO 140001 environmental certification. However, this tool would not only incorporate the environmental dimension but all the other dimensions that a socially, economically and environmentally responsible company is about. We look forward to the Government supporting and endorsing this tool.

The Government can make a huge impact through its own procurement practices, to which I will refer later.

It is also important for the Government to have a vision and strategy to encourage businesses to take up corporate responsibility or responsible business practices within their operations. By its nature, corporate responsibility is a voluntary approach by business to their social and environmental considerations and the European Commission's view is aligned with this. However, the Commission and many member states have invested heavily in raising awareness and building the capacity of businesses, particularly small and medium-sized enterprises, which are the cornerstone of our economy, to help them to raise their own standards by using positive incentives, clarification and information rather than imposing legislation. There is a gap in the Government's strategy. It is not communicating to business the benefits of this and how they could improve their own practices.

In the United Kingdom, for instance, in 2004 a junior minister in the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform was appointed as a minister for corporate social responsibility. Over a number of years the UK Government has issued reports on its vision in supporting and encouraging businesses. I have included in today's submission a copy of the recent document from the UK Government which I would encourage members to read because it is inspirational in terms of the way a government can encourage and advise companies.

At a regional level in Tuscany, to give the committee a different perspective, the local authority provides tax breaks for companies that have achieved an external certification on their social practices. Companies that work with suppliers in developing countries that have achieved a minimum standard on the quality of their workplaces are granted tax breaks. There are many other examples of that.

We believe there is a need for the Government here to examine how a vision should be espoused and an action plan developed, not in terms of adding more red tape, which I know is something the committee would be concerned about, particularly in terms of the businesses in members' own constituencies, but examining the way positive incentives and information can be made freely available for businesses to get involved in this area.

I will return to the point on procurement, which is about leading by example. Government is a major buyer of products and services, a huge investor, which it is hoped will remain the case, and a major employer. There is a major role for Government to play in terms of its own procurement practices — how Government can incorporate more social and environmental dimensions into its procurement practices.

An example I would point out to the committee is the local authority in Wales where there is a specific programme to encourage suppliers to show their social and environmental criteria. Mr. McGowan has already alluded to the London Olympics in 2012 where, increasingly, there is a requirement for leadership from Government to show that socially and environmentally responsible businesses are taken seriously in procurement.

My final example is the Netherlands. For any company to procure any type of uniform for the civil services, from the armed forces to paramedics and firemen, it must have an organic cotton label on the clothes it supplies. In all of those examples issues have not arisen concerning competition rules being broken because of favouritism in terms of the social and environmental criteria. There is strong evidence on that.

We would like to see the procurement unit in the Department of Finance take a stronger role in this area and encouraging and leading by example. On the other hand, Government is a major employer and there is a great deal of scope for examining how employment practices and productivity can be improved. At the same time we are working with a large number of businesses in the community on how they can be more flexible employers and encourage creativity and productivity among their staff. There should be similar practices here. I again point out to the committee that the UK has an action plan from within the sustainable development commission to examine the way these practices can be improved.

On the environmental dimension, it is also about examining the efficiency or inefficiency of Government operations in terms of CO2 and greenhouse gas emissions and the way that could be improved. That can be as simple as looking at the impact of the State's fleet of vehicles and how that can be improved, to the way green electricity can be procured for buildings like this one, which is a good example of best practice but it came out of an initiative in terms of stricter guidelines.

That is a summary of our presentation. We believe there is a need for stronger guidance and support for business, and a stronger vision in this area. We would encourage the members to consider this in their own constituencies and in their deliberations. I thank the committee for the time.

I welcome the delegation. I liked what I heard. Mr. Sercovich summed it up very well when he referred to making Ireland the most responsible and sustainable region in the world. As a Green Party Deputy I feel the goal to make Ireland the most responsible and sustainable region in the world sums this up very well and is a very good vision. This must be more than an aspiration; we must bring it into every stratum of Government life. We have been talking this morning about the produce on supermarket shelves. In supermarkets today I can buy kiwis from Africa, runner beans from Kenya and asparagus from Peru but we do not know what farmers are paid to grow those products and we do not know the environment in which they are grown. The food miles involved in bringing those products to Ireland are another component in emissions and relate to our compliance with the Kyoto agreement.

I am very interested in the Italian region of Tuscany, which was mentioned. The local government offers tax breaks to local businesses; does this work like the Fairtrade movement for tea, coffee and bananas? When one buys a Fairtrade product one knows the middleman will be cut out of the deal and the farmer growing the product will get a decent return. Is this something that extends across a wider range of products? Can we have a little information on the SA 9000? The Netherlands and the UK were spoken of as good examples of sustainable procurement. Green procurement is a buzz word in many local authorities but it must be more than that; we must achieve, whether relating to eco-cement, green electricity, geothermal heating or the way goods and services are procured by local authorities. It makes sense for a person in our national Parliament to have responsibility for these matters. We have a newly appointed Minister of State and we could examine corporate responsibility when it comes to providing these goods and services.

I would like a run down on the Tuscany experience. What rules have the Netherlands and UK utilised and how do we ensure we do not cross any EU competition laws?

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

With regard to the Tuscan example, SA 9000 stands for social accountability 9000 and is an international tool available to companies that want to ensure suppliers, mostly in developing countries, achieve minimum standards in terms of the working and living conditions of employees. In Tuscany many companies work in the fur and leather product industry; most of the products are manufactured in developing countries and serious concerns persisted for years relating to inhumane working conditions in sweatshops. The local government took a stand on promoting more accountability from companies by offering them a tax break in return for an investment of time and money in getting certification from suppliers.

In the leather industry tanning and dyeing takes place; there would have been concerns over whether dehumidifiers and air controllers were used as they are extremely important in that health environment.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

Absolutely. The SA 9000 looks at all of the working conditions and is scrutinised by a third party element. The certification gives greater legitimacy to a label; getting certification requires an investment of time and that is why the Tuscan government rewards companies that go through the process.

What is interesting about the UK example is that a target has been set for the CO2 emissions UK Government operations should have. It applies to many things from the state's fleet of vehicles to the Government's main buildings. This goes back to what Deputy White said about going beyond statements of intent to implement specific targets. The UK Government must work on this and the Sustainable Development Commission must report every year to the government as a watchdog on how targets are achieved.

I will address the Dutch example. As far as I know it is a requirement that has been set by Government and it has not been challenged in terms of violation of any competition rules. The minimum standard for any sort of uniform, which is the example I know, is that it must have a sustainable and organic cotton label. That is what is required to qualify for a contract, in the same way as there are minimum technical or price criteria for a company to qualify for a contract. Having organic and sustainability certification is required.

It is not GM cotton.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

I am not 100% sure but I would say it is not, given the criteria.

I would not think so. If Mr. Sercovich would pass on details of the link to the clerk to the committee we could explore the issue in more depth at a later stage.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

Yes.

I thank the delegation for its presentation. I am very familiar with what BITC does, both in a personal capacity and as a member of committees of this House. I am aware of the links with initiatives in places such as Jobstown in Tallaght. What it does is commendable and beneficial in many areas. Now it is going a step further and wants Government to come in on it.

I am glad to see it pointed out in the presentation that there are economic benefits to this because there is a perception among many business leaders and even in Government circles that social and corporate environmental responsibility costs money. In the long run it does not. It will put us in a different bracket and open other doors and gateways for us and it is important to get that message out. Through fiscal and general policy the Government can send a message that this will not cost money. It is the right thing to do and it should be realised that doing the right thing is often financially beneficial.

Other countries have tried this and it has not been deemed anti-competitive. Will it be possible under Irish law to require that a company must employ a certain percentage of people who have, for example, a disability, a background of anti-social behaviour, or who are ex-offenders? It is a requirement in some Departments but it is not in the law that other businesses should so do. However, it is important that Government should lead the way because we cannot expect other businesses to do something the Government will not do. It happens at local government level where it is the practice to build the best and to set an example of standard. It is important for Government to do likewise. BITC's message in that regard is strong. We should adopt its proposals and push them forward.

BITC is of the view that most corporate responsibility is voluntary but that there have been changes in the world of accountancy and other areas whereby environmental and social reports form part of business operation plans. Is that becoming the norm faster than we think? Is it being encouraged more in other circles? Should we just get on the bandwagon and implement it more quickly as well? It has been suggested that Government procurement and tax breaks are a good way to proceed. Perhaps BITC would comment on the best way to proceed.

Mr. Kieran McGowan

I will answer one or two general points and Mr. Sercovich will address the more specific ones. I strongly agree with Deputy English's point regarding the perception that corporate responsibility costs money. Particularly in a recession with people trying to cut expenditure, one of the reasons we were anxious to attend and raise the profile of corporate responsibility is the wrongdoing that has happened in the financial sector internationally and at home. I genuinely believe that the case for companies to have good practices in relation to communities and the environment is stronger now then it ever was. One of the things I believe will come out of what we have gone through on the financial side is that people will have more regard to the reputation of a company than they used to and companies will recognise the value people put on that reputation.

We believe it would help if the Government were disposed to consider adding corporate responsibility to the responsibilities of a Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. That would raise the profile of corporate responsibility. It would promote and encourage best practice and would be a mark of recognition for companies that are trying to do their best for their communities, and to deal with issues such as climate change and other areas that we espouse.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

In response to the question on whether Irish law goes against the philosophy of what we are trying to promote, there is no particular contradiction. The way it works is that it is not necessarily about stating that 10% of employees of this contract should be people with disabilities but about asking the company to attach to its credentials a statement in terms of the quality of its products, the cost and so on, and information about its social and environmental performance, without necessarily having a specific target. It does not contradict any sort of competition law.

There are often question marks over the tendering process for certain projects and if one adds another chunk especially a non-factual element, a good person might be able to write a report for a company that might not always add up to the truth but might read very well. There is a danger that if it is not put in clear terms it will be too grey to work or it will add to more people questioning the tendering process. I know what Business in the Community Ireland is trying to achieve but the practicality is awkward.

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

That is why we believe that a tool like the one we are developing is ideal because it is verified by a third party and similar to the Italian standard in that it is not company X saying it is great. It is verified and certified externally that the practices of company X are of a certain standard. On the regulation side, it is interesting to consider the Government guarantee scheme for financial institutions, as one of its provisions requires all the protected financial institutions to submit a corporate responsibility report. They must do this through the Irish Banking Federation. That has been done recently. I have my doubts that it will happen but it might.

In response to the question on the best model, the beauty of being in Europe is that one is able to see what is going on. I am thinking of a combination of systems and principles like the incentives, but that might have a cost. It means Government having a stronger voice and as my colleague, Mr. McGowan, said it would be fantastic to have a Minister of State with this responsibility. I do not know if the Government can afford it, but at the same time it would be a clear vision and a clear message that corporate responsibility is important. Having certain actions and targets would be essential.

In terms of Government tendering and procurement policies, one thing nobody would like to see is the situation whereby Government and its agencies are procuring products from sweat shops in developing countries. How would one write that into Government procurement policy? Would one require companies bidding for the tender to have had an inspection carried out beforehand?

Mr. Tomás Sercovich

The London example is quite clear in that it is a requirement to show some level of environmental practice. Some of the companies were going for ISO 2001, an internationally recognised label of environment practices, which would satisfy the criteria. In other cases where there was no label or indication of that kind, they would have been approached by the London Olympics and have been audited. I do not think that is the way to go, but at least there must be guidance on the minimum standards or minimum labels or external endorsement that companies should have in order to fulfil sustainable procurement standards, without requiring the extra element of an audit.

Mr. Kieran McGowan

We are trying to develop a standard that would be recognised as difficult to achieve but would be a mark of respect and a pre-qualifier in its own right.

What companies does the BITC cover? I am aware that it has approximately 50 companies but is it involved in the community sector?

Mr. Kieran McGowan

We are very involved in that sector. Our 50 member companies pay us money and we run programmes that help the community. One such example is the schools business partnership programme in which a business ties up with a school in a tough area. Our companies have a huge involvement in communities.

Perhaps Mr. McGowan can send us details of those programmes.

Mr. Kieran McGowan

I will do that.

The submission has been very interesting and I thank the delegation. There is more to the creation of a successful business or economy than simply making a profit. It is important that responsibilities of the business community and Government are recognised and, while profits are essential, the protection of social structures is vital and people must take precedence over profits. The conduct of business is an integral part of society and is one of the pillars on which modern societies are founded. In this regard Irish businesses can make a positive impact by applying fair and reasonable standards in the workplace and having consideration for the impact of their activities on the environment, the market and the communities in which they operate. We will try to progress such an agenda.

We should give a commitment to take it up with the Minister of State.

We will.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.05 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 27 May 2009.
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