JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Jan 2006

Waste Recycling: Presentation.

Chairman

I welcome representatives of South Dublin County Council, Ms Mary Pyne, director of environmental services, Mr. Paul Fleming, senior executive officer, and Ms Máire Ní Dhomnnaill, environmental awareness officer. I thank them for their submission and for attending.

I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but that the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are also reminded of the long-standing practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Ms Pyne to commence the presentation.

Ms Mary Pyne

I thank the committee for inviting us to come before it to make this presentation. Members have been provided with hard copies of our presentation. For the benefit of the committee, we have also brought some executive summaries of the Dublin waste management plan and some CDs.

South Dublin County Council is the second largest of the four Dublin local authorities and caters for a population of 240,000. It is a highly urbanised county. Our county town is Tallaght. Our county has seen a growth in household numbers of more than 20% in the past ten years, bringing us to a position where we have approximately 82,000 households to serve. While there is very strong economic activity within the county, there are also many areas of disadvantage. Four of the RAPID areas are located within south Dublin county. In terms of waste management planning, we work in close co-operation with the Fingal, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown and Dublin City councils, working at a regional level in terms of major infrastructure and service provision.

In a more local context, the services we provide in south Dublin are those relating to refuse collection. The latter are provided directly by the local authority. The waste is baled and transported to our landfill at Arthurstown in County Kildare. Some of our services are provided on a joint venture basis with contractors but they are fully funded by the council. The main one of these, which may be familiar to some of members, is the green bin dry recyclable service provided to all households in our county and in the Dublin region. We also have an extensive bring bank network that is comprised of approximately 50 such banks. I will mention these later in terms of challenges with which we are faced. We operate a recycling centre at Ballymount where we also have a WEEE — waste electrical and electronic equipment — reception centre in Ballymount. Since 2003, we have supported a community-based social economy project, namely, the Clondalkin community recycling initiative. This is an interesting initiative which dealt with waste electrical and electronic equipment well in advance of the introduction of the directive and which has been in place since 2003.

On the waste profile of our county, in 2005 we collected and disposed of approximately 61,000 tonnes of household waste. While this was a reduction of 3.5% on 2004, the reduction in 2004 was more significant because SDCC introduced a pay-per-use system in advance of the statutory requirement. That resulted in a reduction in household waste of approximately 18%. A total of 77,000 tonnes was collected in 2003, compared to 63,000 in 2004. There was a further reduction in 2005. Approximately 12,000 tonnes of waste is recycled through the green bin service in south Dublin county. That is also an increase of 18% on the previous year. The handout provides more detail in this regard.

The putting in place of plastic bring banks was one of the initiatives the council introduced. These were situated in neighbourhood locations and resulted in the diversion from landfill of approximately 4 million plastic bottles in 2005. This is an important initiative. We have a green waste centre in Lucan, which was the only one serving the Dublin region until last October and which diverts significant waste from landfill. The council also runs an environmental awareness programme, which is targeted at various sectors and which underpins all our activities.

I refer to the cost implications and funding of the service. The council receives significant capital funding from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for major infrastructure such as the material recovery facility and the biowaste plants proposed for the Dublin region. One of the most important challenges we face, in the context of funding the recycling service, is how to overcome the perception that recycling is a revenue generating or costless exercise. At regional level, the green bin service costs the four Dublin local authorities approximately €27 million. This includes the costs associated with collecting, transporting, segregating, processing, shipping, marketing and so on. Repak, the packaging industry approved body, contributes €1 million, while the sale of the product collected from households generates approximately €500,000. A significant cost, therefore, arises in providing the service. A large proportion of the material in green bins compromises newspapers and magazines and it is important that the newspaper industry should make a contribution to support the cost of recycling material. This should also apply regarding plastic material, which is due to become part of our service once the facilities are in place to recover it. It costs SDCC between €7.5 million and €8 million to provide the service. While the council applies a household waste charge, it is well below the cost of the service and that is a significant issue.

Recycling in the region has increased from 7% to 26% and this has resulted in a reduction in the waste diverted to landfill. We successfully introduced pay per use in 2004 and we have seen the benefits of that. The green bin service provision to all households resulted in the recycling of 50,000 tonnes of material in the Dublin region in 2005. Regional bring bank numbers have doubled, as has green waste recycling. Our regional information website, www.dublinwaste.ie, is an excellent resource and I encourage everybody to make full use of it because it provides significant information.

A number of challenges must be overcome if the council is to meet the ambitious targets set out in its waste management plan. The recycling target is 59% taking us from 26% in 2003. Household size is decreasing and that generates more waste. People are also generating more waste as their spending power increases. Despite citizen goodwill, the council feels it must explain continually that environmental benefits have an economic cost and we need to secure a commitment in this regard. We will also need support for the successful introduction of the brown bin service and that will require us to work hard on our information and communication plan. Fingal County Council has introduced a pilot brown bin system.

We recognise that to build on the goodwill of citizens we need to provide accessible infrastructure, an area in which we are currently experiencing much difficulty. On the bring bank network throughout the Dublin region, we are losing sites because we are being requested, as a result of vandalism and dumping, to remove them from private developments such as shopping centres and so on. We are also experiencing difficulty finding new locations because we are working in an urbanised environment where there is not available to us the volume of land available in more rural areas and because of objections to the location of sites in close proximity to housing. We are experiencing a significant problem in that regard. Reaching the level of sites required under the national service indicators is proving a real challenge for us.

On the green waste service, we have encountered problems during the past year or so in its proximity to housing. That, too, is an ongoing issue for us. On the built environment, again in the Dublin region, we are having to develop new models to deal with the higher density living that is now apparent. Apartment living and higher density developments require us find new models to deliver a service to the public. On the polluter pays principle and cost recovery, it is important that we provide a fair and balanced contribution towards the cost of providing a recycling service. We are working at regional level to find an appropriate balance between the contribution from industry, producers and households.

The issue of market recyclables was mentioned in the EPA report published yesterday. On waste reduction at source, it is important that we consider issues such as the elimination of waste, packaging redesign and other measures that can help to reduce waste thereby minimising the amount of material to be recycled. On the future for South Dublin County Council and the Dublin region, we have provided members with copies of our waste management plan.

The next major service initiative we will be introducing is the roll-out of the brown bin system. We plan to provide two biowaste facilities at Ballyogan in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown and Kilshane in the Fingal area to cater for that system. Those facilities will need to be in place before we can provide the service. Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council will shortly advertise for the procurement of the design-build-operate contract for the facility at Ballyogan. We hope that facility will be in place within 18 months to two years at which time we will roll out the system. In the meantime, Fingal County Council is operating the pilot system that will provide us with the information we need.

We will continue our strategy to promote greater reduction and recycling of waste. We will also seek to identify new ways of expanding the network of recycling centres. In that regard, our waste management plan makes provision for 22 further recycling centres. A new materials recovery facility to be located at Ballymount will enable us to introduce the plastic waste scheme into the green bin. We have recently been advised that we will receive grant aid from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government towards the fit-out of that facility. Cost recovery and, as I mentioned earlier, the producer initiatives, are critical in this area. The main emphasis in the plan is on waste minimisation and awareness, both of which drive our reduction and recycling strategy in the region.

Deputy McCormack

I thank the representatives from South Dublin County Council for their presentation and I thank the council for its work in this area. We acknowledge the goodwill and enthusiasm of householders in terms of separating their waste for disposal in the correct manner. However, there appears to be an absence of knowledge of what happens to the waste following its collection. Perhaps the delegation might outline what South Dublin County Council is doing in that regard.

Householders will respond to waste management plans. While householders have been enthusiastic about the first stage of the plan in terms of separating their waste and so on, they are now asking what happens to that waste. A particular incident last year or the previous year received a great deal of publicity. One waste export ship had to return to Ireland because it carried mixed and contaminated waste. This type of occurrence destroys the confidence of people in the value of their efforts at segregating waste and they wonder whether it is all mixed up afterwards and exported. There is a lack of information on the issue for householders who want to know what their council is doing and the benefit of their efforts in separating waste.

Is there reason to question the end result of private collection versus local authority collection systems? In Galway we have a different system of separating waste in the county area which is collected privately and in the city area which is collected by the local authority. If all the waste ends up in the same place — which seems likely — people are bound to ask what the result of their efforts is. What is South Dublin County Council doing to bring the message on the end result of their efforts to separate waste to the people in its area? Does the brown bin system accept cooked food waste?

Ms Pyne

The Deputy has asked the big question about the market for recyclable products. The service we provide, which is on a joint venture basis with the contractor, is one where 70% or 80% of the material goes abroad, simply because there is no market for it here. That is regulated within the contract and we have information about where the material ends up. It is appropriately regulated.

Deputy McCormack

Sometimes householders do not believe that or are not aware of it. They need to know that the separating of waste they do in the household is useful. What feedback does South Dublin County Council have for householders to explain what happens to their waste after they have separated it?

Ms Pyne

I agree there is probably a need to improve on the information we provide. We provide information on www.dublinwaste.ie. and involve ourselves in providing pamphlets and workshops on the issue. We also work closely with the schools programme to convey information to people. We could make a huge improvement in this, particularly when it comes to the rolling out of the brown bin initiative. When we introduced the wheelie bin system in south Dublin in 1997, that system was a novelty and we had to engage with people on an almost household to household basis to win them over to it. It is quite likely we will move into that territory in the next year or so.

To clarify, the brown bin system has not been introduced in our county yet, but it is being used on a small-scale pilot basis in Fingal. Until we have major facilities in place, we will not be in a position to introduce it on a widespread basis.

Deputy McCormack

Does brown bin waste currently go to landfill?

Ms Pyne

Yes, it is part of our normal grey bin collection as we have not introduced a brown bin diversion yet. We provide composters to encourage home composting, but have not introduced the collection of brown bin waste.

Chairman

Where does Fingal County Council propose to dispose of its brown waste?

Ms Pyne

As far as I know, it has engaged a private contractor outside the Dublin region, probably in the greater Dublin area, who has a private facility for composting. There would be composting facilities in place for commercial activities, but there is nothing in place on the scale appropriate to regional household recycling. This is what the Ballyogan and Kilshane Cross facilities will provide, of which Ballyogan will be the first.

Deputy McCormack

The slide on overall household waste collection indicated there was a green, brown and black bin system.

Ms Pyne

That is an overview extracted from our waste management plan and is part of the ultimate fully rolled out service. However, the service is not yet fully rolled out.

Deputy McCormack

I thought south Dublin was that far advanced.

Chairman

What is the position in Galway?

Deputy McCormack

We are light years ahead of that. We were separating our waste five ways, with five bins, but we are now back to the three bin system — black, green and brown. I have the same problem in this regard. I say this from approximately three years' experience of the system for which the council is aiming. As the council should anticipate, the danger is that people are now beginning to question what is happening to their waste after all their efforts. Households are now 100% correct in everything they are doing. They are now asking whether it is worth all the effort. What is happening to our waste after it is collected? What are the markets for plastic products? Is the plastic being recycled into plastic chairs or other items? People want the feedback in order to continue their enthusiasm. While people will be enthusiastic at the beginning, their enthusiasm will wane if they believe their recyclable waste is put in a ship to be sent off elsewhere and mixed up after they went to the bother of separating it.

Deputy Gilmore

I thank Ms Pyne for her presentation. I take up the point she made about green bins and that the largest component therein is paper, mostly in the form of newspapers and magazines. Where does the paper go after collection? In Dún Laoghaire, Greenstar sends it to France and it then goes on to Asia. Where does the paper collected in south Dublin go? She mentioned that the total cost of the green bin service in Dublin is €27 million, including the cost of shipping. What is the cost of exporting paper?

I am interested in her reference to what she called a "producer initiative" on newspapers. Is she talking about an arrangement whereby the newspaper industry would pay for the cost of the disposal of newspapers? If that is the case, I would like to hear more about it. How would this operate in this country, where there arguably are two newspaper industries? We have the domestic newspaper industry, which operates on a particular cost base that is reflected in the price, and we have the UK-based newspaper industry, which operates on an entirely different cost base that is again reflected in the price. What is in the pipeline in this regard?

The direction of waste disposal is away from landfill. In 2003, 77,000 tonnes went to landfill. This figure decreased significantly to 61,000 tonnes in 2004. This is happening at a time when the number of households is increasing. Let us assume that the diversion will continue, while not necessarily on the same scale, and that the level of recycling will increase. We have been told that 60% of household waste is compostable. If, when brown bins are introduced, it takes 50% of the household waste from what is going to landfill, where is the justification for an incinerator? The council is being very successful in diverting waste from landfill and in increasing the levels of recycling. In two years' time, we will all have brown bins and all that waste will be composted. Why are we talking about building an incinerator if the curve is going in the right direction?

Ms Pyne

I was asked to state where the paper goes. It generally goes to the Far East and to India. The Deputy mentioned the Greenstar facility at the civic amenity site in Ballyogan.

Deputy Gilmore

Yes.

Ms Pyne

I was talking about the green bin kerbside collection service, which is operated by Oxigen on behalf of the local authorities in Dublin. The paper collected on foot of that service is sent to the Far East and to India. The markets are adjusting all the time — it is a moveable feast. The various buyers are concerned that the paper, card and packaging should be of a quality that is acceptable to them. It is certain that such items are being sent to China and India. I do not have to hand the specific figure sought by the Deputy — the proportion of the total cost of €27 million that relates to paper — I can provide it later if he wishes.

The producer initiative in the newspaper industry is at a reasonably preliminary stage. I am not in a position to advise the committee on whether cost structures have been proposed in that regard. One of the objectives of the waste plan for the south Dublin region is that the newspaper industry should be engaged to support the initiative. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is also engaged in discussions on the matter, as far as I am aware. Consideration of the issue has certainly not been concluded. It is not yet the case that a cost structure has been devised. One of the objectives of South Dublin County Council's plan is to reach that stage.

Deputy Gilmore

There is a strong case for involving the newspaper industry in that way. It is clear that newspapers and magazines comprise a large proportion of the waste that is placed in green bins, especially because unwanted supplements accompany newspapers in many cases. The newspaper industry should make some payments, therefore, in line with the "polluter pays" principle. The producer is the polluter in this case. There has been an increase in the number of free newspapers being published. Some of the newspapers distributed free of charge on the public transport system are causing litter problems in Dublin. The producers of such items should pay for their disposal, particularly in the case of unwanted published material. That needs to be done in a way that takes account of the nature of newspaper competition in this State. Many of the additional supplements to which I refer are being generated overseas. When the Irish edition of a newspaper is sold here, those who buy it also receive every one of the many supplements produced for a much wider market. I agree that the newspaper industry should meet some of the costs in question. If householders have to pay waste charges so that their unwanted newspapers can be shipped to the Far East, there is a strong case for the ensuring that the newspaper industry takes responsibility for the amount of unwanted paper produced.

Chairman

I am watching the clock. I propose that the representatives of Waterford City Council be asked to address the committee not later than 12.30 p.m.

Deputy Cregan

I welcome the officials from South Dublin County Council. I thank them for their presentation and commend them on the good work they do. Does the council provide a full door-to-door collection service to all its customers in the area it covers? If so, it is commendable because it is not the case in the rural constituency of Limerick West, which I represent. I believe that the failure to provide a full service is contributing to the missing waste saga that has been discussed.

Am I right to presume there is a door-to-door collection for recycled waste or can people to whom a service is not available dispose of it at the nearest bring centre? Do the smaller bring centres have facilities, within reason, for all types of recyclables, by which I mean cardboard, Tetra Pak material, newspapers, cans and bottles? Such facilities are very necessary. Door-to-door collection for recyclables is not available in all parts of my constituency and the smaller bring centres which we have in many of our towns and villages do not, unfortunately, have all the necessary facilities to cater for the cardboard and plastics which constitute a great bulk in people's wheelie bins. What emphasis does the local authority place on the cleanliness and tidiness of its smaller bring centres? Do the witnesses agree that the cleaner and tidier they are, the more people will use them? I have seen that people are deterred from visiting bring centres which are not up to scratch. How does the local authority manage the centres in that important context? The witnesses mentioned winning people over, which we have achieved, but in the absence of a door-to-door collection or a proper bring facility, they can only do so much. We have a long way to go.

As one who resisted the temptation to vote for the privatisation of the refuse collection in my county for many years before eventually supporting it, I would like the witnesses to state whether the use of private operators in our waste management system assists or inhibits us. Does the local authority have more control when it is directly involved or can it exercise control easily by working with the private sector?

Ms Pyne

Our local authority has a full door-to-door service in what is a very urban county. Of our 82,000 households, a very small percentage is in rural areas.

Deputy Cregan

Is the rural part of the county fully serviced?

Ms Pyne

Absolutely. We have a rural route to cover them. Generally speaking, however, the county is very built up. The recycling green bins service is also provided door-to-door. Our circumstances may be different to those of Deputy Cregan's county in that when we use the term "bring centre" we refer to one major civic amenity and recycling centre in Ballymount, Dublin 24, which has the full range of services and accepts the full range of recyclables. Otherwise, we have local bring banks to which one can bring glass, cans and, now, plastic. We do not yet have, but hope to provide, a greater network of such smaller facilities throughout the region.

Deputy Cregan was correct to mention the cleanliness of facilities which we have found is one of the major factors in the inability to expand the network of bring banks. Many of our bring banks are provided by a contractor under a contract which includes a cleaning and maintenance service and we are fortunate to have a cleansing unit within the local authority which sends crews to clean up material from our own bring bank sites. Some of our bring banks are provided under funding we give Rehab, which was in the market before many others, and we undertake to perform the clean ups as required. Under the arrangement for bring banks provided by the private contractor Oxigen, maintenance is carried out by the company. Our litter wardens play an active role in policing dumping at bring banks, although it is not always possible to achieve prosecutions, and we have engaged with our local authority environment strategic policy committee to address issues at community level.

Our experience has been that while we provide a service very successfully through the local authority, we provide a green bin service on a joint basis with a private contractor which also operates very well. To respond to Deputy Cregan, therefore, we have a good mix of public and private sector provision.

Deputy Cregan

I am intrigued to hear about the contract which includes the maintenance of these sites. Does the witness find this works satisfactorily?

Ms Pyne

Yes, it does. It is part of the green bin dry recyclable contract. There is a green bin contract with a bring bank element to it. The white bring banks seen around the Dublin region are part of that contract.

Chairman

I suppose one could describe that as a public-private partnership.

Senator Bannon

I thank Ms Pyne and the staff of South Dublin County Council for a most informative and interesting presentation. My constituency or county is different in being very much rural based, with a very low rate base. I believe that only some 8% of the local authority budget is derived from commercial rates so we have not got the expanded facilities seen in Dublin.

I will start with the challenges. Ms Pyne spoke about the provision of accessible infrastructure. Infrastructure is a problem throughout the country in terms of expanding centres and civic amenities because of the dreadful condition in which they are left by the public. They are filthy and inaccessible, perhaps because of silt and rubbish thrown in close proximity to them and not attended to. In many cases the centres may be understaffed. Does that problem exist in Dublin? Ms Pyne spoke of expanding facilities. If facility expansion is proposed in any rural area, many people object, as they do to the siting of new facilities, because of the condition of the facilities already in operation. There is always the fear too of the disposal of hazardous waste. Ms Pyne might elaborate on all that.

I am concerned about the monitoring and treatment of hazardous waste before it is exported. Does South Dublin County Council have the facility or take full responsibility for monitoring such waste and keep it under close observation until it is exported? Is the local authority involved in the promotion of the recycling industry? The lack of markets for recycled products is a major problem in Ireland. We have to export to the UK, Spain and other countries products to be recycled, including plastic, glass, paper and so on. It is time for local authorities and the Government to come together to fund the recycling industry. We have talked about it already, but action is all piecemeal and add-on. Something starts up and there is a great buzz for one or two years, after which it collapses. We then hear that there is no market for recyclable products in Ireland. That seems to be a problem. I highlighted this situation in rural Ireland earlier today with regard to the plastic used for big bales. Farmers pay their contribution in terms of fees for the plastic but have been left with that product for 18 months, which has had repercussions for their REPS programmes and so on.

Ms Pyne

Regarding the standards of bring centres, I have referred to the difficulty whereby many shopping centres and major developments are asking us to take those facilities out of those locations. In order to have a bring bank operate successfully and not have dumping and so on, a useful tool is supervision. If there is supervision at a facility which already has its own system such as CCTV or security staff, that is probably the best location for it. This is a serious problem for us in the Dublin region. Up to now we have been relying on the voluntary support of the private developers. It is important for the future that we consider whether it should be a requirement of major facilities to make provision for recycling infrastructure, because that would present an opportunity for us. The major recycling centre at our civic amenity is fully staffed and any hazardous waste is disposed of under close supervision. In general, we have a system of enforcement and regulation in place for trans-frontier shipments of hazardous waste, as would any local authority.

Senator Bannon

Does South Dublin County Council have a 24-hour monitoring system at its bring centre?

Ms Pyne

I doubt any local authority could enforce 24-hour monitoring of movements.

Senator Bannon

That is where the problem arises. People come and dump something ten minutes after closing time and so on. People may use it late at night.

Ms Pyne

Obviously, that brings us back to the question of supervision. The ideal location for a bring centre is a site where it can be supervised or that has a CCTV system.

Regarding promotion of the recycling industry, at the level of local awareness, we encourage the use of recycled products through our schools programme and liaison with business and communities. At a regional level, we try to engage with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government or a market development group. The promotion of the recycling industry and markets for recyclable materials is a national issue. As a region, we make what approaches and set what objectives we can within our waste management plan structure.

Chairman

Does South Dublin County Council have any evidence of householders dumping household waste or burning it in back gardens? As I know the council covers an urban area, it might not be a very big issue there or in any of the four Dublin local authority areas. Does Ms Pyne have any information on the extent of the problem?

Ms Pyne

Occasionally a complaint can come through our environmental health system. We might become aware of such activity if a complaint were to be made regarding a public health nuisance. In urban areas neighbours will advise of such a problem. We know from our waste charges system that people avail of the service we provide. We do not have a significant problem of the type described — backyard burning.

Senator Bannon

How many litter wardens does the council have per head of population?

Ms Pyne

We have six litter wardens for a population of 240,000, which means one per 40,000.

Chairman

I thank the delegates for their presentation and answering all our questions. Their submission, with their views and comments, will be incorporated into our final report on recycling household waste which will be published in the coming months.

From Waterford City Council I welcome Mr. Michael Walsh, director of the services, planning and environment section, and Mr. EamonLonergan, senior executive engineer. I apologise for the delay in admitting them. I now ask Mr. Walsh to make a presentation.

Mr. Michael Walsh

I thank the Chairman for the invitation. As I am conscious the committee is pressed for time, I will try to be as brief as possible and deal with any questions afterwards. If we need to elucidate, we will be more than happy to do so.

Waterford city has been in the business of recycling for three years, since the council decided to go the whole hog in 2003. Then, as now, that meant having green and brown bins, with the traditional grey bins. We had several reasons for so doing. It was the right thing to do to meet recycling targets. We also had a major landfill availability problem in Waterford city. Diversion from landfill was a key driver. I must acknowledge support from the environment fund for the infrastructure required but the main driver was the council and its positive disposition towards recycling generally. It has been brave in its investment decisions, for example, in having to raise charges to make the investment. It has also given approval to a planning application for a composting plant within the city. That was not easy, due to the political decisions that had to be made at the time.

In 2003, the recycling rate was 39%, which rose to 48% in 2004 and 51% in 2005, in the 15,000 households in Waterford city from which we collect. I referred to the customer charging regime which was put in place by the city council and which has changed over the years. It has had to change due to consumer response to the different charging regimes. We started out with a wheeled bin system which had a €2.50 charge per bin. That ultimately rose to €5 per bin for each of the three bins provided. Latterly, we have changed it to a more complex system that combines a standing charge and presentation charges that differentiate greatly between recycling and residual waste. Currently, €1.50 is being charged for the presentation of a recycling bin, either brown or green, while there is a €7.50 presentation charge this year for the grey bin. When we first put in a charge, we had a reduction in waste from 16,500 tonnes to 15,000 tonnes. I would like to think that all of that constituted a reduction, but I must acknowledge that there may have been a bit of illegal dumping and burning. There would not have been too much back yard burning in urban areas because that is too obvious and we dealt with complaints when it happened. When we introduced our brown bin collection, we had certain difficulties with the public perception of it. The charging regime, as well as the development of an awareness of it, caused a significant change in the public mentality. The 2003-04 recycling rate increased from 39% to 48%. The main driver in that was the change in the charging regime and the incentivisation of the use of the recycling bins. The main response came from the use of the brown bin.

Waterford City Council operates a waiver system for about 4,000 householders who are on long term-term social welfare or in receipt of contributory or non-contributory old age pensions. For further processing, our waste has a number of outlets. We have our own composting facility for brown bin waste, which we put in place in 2003 with support from the environment fund. We did this on a public private partnership basis whereby we retain the ownership of the plant, while Onyx Ireland and Celtic Composting Systems designed and now run the plant. We have used two sources for materials recovery in the past year. We have worked with Waterford County Council and other authorities in the region in this area. The county council has a state-of-the-art materials recovery facility in Dungarvan. We bring our green waste to that facility and the county council brings its brown waste to us. We have promoted the further transfer of brown waste through open days in our composting plant and so on. We have given away the compost as a promotional tool for the past year and a half to two years. We are now beginning to charge a nominal amount for that compost, primarily to householders but also to commercial outlets, which pay a more significant charge. We have held open days and the like, during which thousands of people visited the composting plant.

The issue of dry recyclables is no different for us than for South Dublin County Council. The reality is that they go onto the world market. We have the same problems with the mix of paper and newsprint, which goes to the Far East in significant part.

As we no longer have landfill available in Waterford city or its direct environment, we must transfer waste to the landfill of one of our partner authorities in the region, Carlow County Council. The costs of this disposal are of the order of €170 or €180 per tonne. Taking all factors into account, including Repak subsidies where applicable, the cost of disposing of recyclables generally, including dry recyclables and composting, is between €70 and €100 per tonne.

With regard to the instruments for improving recycling rates, awareness is an ongoing battle. The documents we presented to the committee include some of our typical awareness promotion information. Much of this is communicated by way of circular letter to our householders, in which we include information about outlets, plants and similar information. We issue such letters regularly, certainly four times a year, as well as calendars and updates.

I referred to charging as an instrument which encourages people to comply. By-laws are another instrument. We operate under a set of by-laws which we enforce rigorously. We refuse collection of bins where people are deliberately not compliant with our quality standards, although this does apply to those who make honest mistakes.

We have learned along the way that the public in any urban or rural authority area is made up of disparate groups. For example, Waterford has a very mobile population, including perhaps 6,000 students among a population of perhaps 50,000 and other mobile population elements such as asylum seekers. This creates a difficulty with communication and awareness, and compliance issues arise which require constant effort.

Illegal dumping is an issue consequent on charging — there is no point saying otherwise. We surveyed 1,500 households which we were satisfied were not within our collection and charging system. Of those, we validated that approximately 1,000 or more have good alternative outlets for their waste, such as, for example, elderly householders who choose to use their daughters' or neighbours' bins. Others would have businesses which have their own waste collection. However, we accept that several hundred householders are not compliant with our system. We are currently in the process of identifying, visiting and serving notices on these. We will pursue them vigorously because they are costing us with respect to cleaning up on the other side.

In the handout, I stated that effort from now on will have diminishing returns in relative terms. At some level, this addresses Deputy Gilmore's question with regard to thermal treatment. We now have a recycling rate of 51%. Our joint waste management plan would have as a general recycling target across commercial and domestic sectors a figure of perhaps 58% or 59% before thermal treatment. A significant investment in terms of effort, application and finance is required to achieve the 58% or 59% target for households. To use a rugby analogy, it will be very difficult to gain the last yards. We envisage that the target will be increased beyond 51% but this will take time and will be a gradual process. We will not suddenly attain the 58% or 59% target next year.

Waterford City Council has strongly supported recycling and the response from the vast majority of the public to recycling has been favourable. We experience compliance problems with a minority of people but more than 90% of the public have responded very favourably to recycling. Consequently, we believe we will be able to make further improvements.

Deputy McCormack

To clarify the figures on the first page about the reduction in landfill, does the achievement of the figure of 51% in 2005 mean that there is 51% less landfill than when the council began recycling or does it mean that there is 51% less landfill than in 2003?

Mr. Walsh

A total of 51% of our waste is now diverted from landfill.

Deputy McCormack

What do the figures in respect of grey, green and brown bins represent?

Mr. Walsh

The figures in respect of grey bins concern waste which goes to landfill. This is residual waste.

Deputy McCormack

I am aware of that.

Mr. Walsh

The figures relate to tonnes of waste collected per annum and their composition. It is the total tonnage collected per annum last year.

Deputy McCormack

In what year was a total amount of 7,210 tonnes of waste from grey bins destined for landfill collected?

Mr. Walsh

This amount was collected in 2005.

Deputy McCormack

Did the total amount of this waste amount to over 14,000 tonnes before the council began recycling?

Mr. Walsh

Yes. The total amount of waste collected last year was 14,715 tonnes, of which 7,200 tonnes went to landfill. The other figure relates to the breakdown of waste from green and brown bins and what we would have recovered from our civic amenity and bring centres.

Deputy McCormack

I appreciate this as it is an example of progress. On the second page of the handout, it is stated that dry recyclables, such as cardboard and paper, go to either the council facility in Dungarvan or to Clearpoint Limited in Carrick-on-Suir. Where do they go after this? What happens to these dry recyclables when they arrive at these separating stations or collecting facilities?

Mr. Walsh

My colleague, Mr. Lonergan, will answer that question.

Mr. Eamon Lonergan

Once the material arrives, it is segregated into the various constituents of cardboard, paper, plastic and aluminium cans and then pack baled.

Deputy McCormack

Is it separated there?

Mr. Lonergan

Yes, it is separated at the facility.

Deputy McCormack

Is it separated by hand?

Mr. Lonergan

It is separated both by hand and by machine. Some material must be separated by hand because of its makeup, while other material is separated using up-to-date technology and sorting equipment on conveyer belt systems. Our handout contains some photographs of the recycling plant. Once the waste is separated, it is sent to various markets, such as China, the Far East, Europe and the UK.

Deputy McCormack

Does someone buy the waste at separating stations?

Mr. Lonergan

Waterford County Council, which deals with dry recyclables, looks for the best markets for this waste.

Deputy McCormack

Does Waterford City Council have no control over what happens to the waste once it leaves the separating station?

Mr. Lonergan

Not really, it is traced using TSS.

Mr. Walsh

The material recovery facility is run by Waterford County Council, not by us.

Deputy McCormack

I am aware of this.

Mr. Walsh

It is a state-of-the-art facility. The fact that Waterford County Council has control over its destiny is the reason it took this route. They know where it is going and who they are selling it to, as distinct to giving waste for a private operator and having difficulty finding out where it is going. They check this to the best extent they can. We would also take this view in terms of a composting facility and are quite happy to have such a facility within the city. We have deliberately made it open to the public and given people back the compost as an acknowledgment that this is the end result.

Deputy McCormack

The council is aware of the difficulties arising from the exporting of materials that were supposed to be segregated here rather than on the boat to wherever they were going. I compliment the council on what it has done in respect of composting, which is similar to what was done in Galway city. Has Waterford City Council's compost passed all of the environmental tests required for its resale?

Mr. Walsh

We have a grade A standard of compost. Every batch is tested before it is put into the public domain.

Deputy McCormack

Is it used in parks and open spaces within the city?

Mr. Walsh

Only a limited amount is used by us within the city. We are genuinely trying to return the compost to the original user, if I may put it that way. The majority goes to the domestic market. To date it has been free of charge but a nominal charge is now being applied. We also have a number of commercial outlets for it.

Deputy McCormack

Is it bagged?

Mr. Walsh

Yes, but not automatically. It is manually bagged. Within the pack given out, the committee's members may see that there is a brand, Waterford's Own Premium Compost. A promotional leaflet has been included.

Chairman

Which local authorities are party to our guests' regional waste management plan?

Mr. Walsh

Ourselves, Waterford County Council, Wexford County Council, Carlow County Council, Kilkenny County Council and Tipperary South County Council.

Chairman

Has there been any privatisation of services in Waterford city?

Mr. Walsh

No, but there is a significant mix in the region.

Deputy McCormack

Has the idea of incineration been abandoned in the waste management plan for that region due to our guests' success and the success of other counties in the reduction of waste?

Mr. Walsh

No. The waste management plans in the south east are only at adoption stage. The public submission period ended on 9 December 2005 and reporting is being carried out on this at present. Decisions on the plans will be made over the next month or two. The issue raised by the Deputy is under consideration but the draft plans included the thermal treatment option.

Deputy McCormack

Is the plan adopted three or four years ago being reviewed?

Mr. Walsh

Yes.

Deputy McCormack

Is incineration included in the draft plan of the review?

Mr. Walsh

Yes.

Senator Bannon

I join others in welcoming Mr. Walsh and Mr. Lonergan to this meeting of the joint Oireachtas committee. I am very impressed by the information pack handed out. Is the household waste newsletter published monthly? Many areas and communities lack information on facilities. I was impressed that the council holds open days and shows exactly what it is doing. It is a great way of promoting the council's waste management programme.

Does the council have joint initiatives with schools, chambers of commerce and other business people in the area in respect of what the council does, such as promotional activities? Have these types of engagement benefited the council's activities in the past and what it intends to do over coming months?

Mr. Walsh said that the private sector is involved in some parts of the region. Does this inhibit the recycling programme? In my local authority, which is small and rural, privatisation has taken place over the past decade or more, which has resulted in not all householders in the catchment area being served. Some operators believe it is not profitable to serve rural parts of the county. Will the delegation comment on the contrast between private sector and local authority involvement in waste management?

Mr. Walsh

I do not have a view on the matter. There are instruments that can address it in both ways. In the south east approximately half of the domestic market was covered by the local authority. Instruments provided for in the Waste Management Act can be used to drive recycling by private operators, primarily waste collection permits. It is our intention to force recycling. There is evidence that this is already happening in the collection of dry recyclables, a service available in the entire region, more so than by way of the brown bin collection. It is our intention to force recycling on private operators through the waste collection permit system. When a permit application is made, a condition will be imposed that the option of brown, green and residual bin collections be provided.

Deputy Cregan

I welcome the officials from Waterford City Council and compliment them on achieving a diversion figure of 51%. Does Mr. Walsh know of any waste unaccounted for in his corporation area? "Missing waste" have become buzzwords in recent times. Is a door-to-door collection service available to all customers in the corporation area?

Is the full range of facilities available at smaller bring banks? Most bring banks can cater for bottles and cans but does the corporation cater for cardboard, Tetra Paks, plastics and clothing? Can this range of materials be provided for in the door-to-door collection service? Do people have the option of putting the materials mentioned in the recycling bins or bringing them to the nearest recycling centre?

What emphasis has been placed on maintenance and management of bring banks in terms of cleanliness and tidiness? In many cases people are deterred from using such facilities because of the condition of the site rather than the illegal dumping that occurs around them. The sites have been generously made available by private businesspeople or local community groups and there should be an onus on the local authority to ensure they are properly maintained and covered with tarmacadam. They should be presentable in order that people can be encouraged to bring recyclable material to them.

Mr. Walsh

On Deputy Cregan's last point, the corporation operates approximately 30 bring centres which accept bottles, clothes and cans. Within the city we have a single, substantive civic community site which accepts everything. We have adopted this policy as the site is reasonably accessible and everyone in the city is living within a four mile radius.

I accept Deputy Cregan's points on the maintenance of sites. We have made some changes in the management of our bring centres such as taking charge of collections. Historically, we contracted collection services but these did not provide for satisfactory response times in emptying full containers. We now have a lorry on call which can respond in such situations. We have a single maintenance group dedicated to maintaining the 30 sites in the city. There is sufficient work to be done to occupy this group. We must accept that at peak times, such as during the Christmas period, we had some problems with abandoned waste, despite our crews working throughout the period. We had serious difficulties dealing with it. Much of that had to do with the behaviour of some people who, for some reason, can reconcile recycling bottles and throwing rubbish alongside the bottle bank. It does not seem to make sense but it happens.

In terms of household waste, we do not have missing waste, we have missing householders who are not compliant. We do not have missing waste because we pick up the waste even if it is thrown on a ditch or a green. I made the point and I accept that approximately 300 or 400 householders are not fully compliant with our system and we are seriously targeting them at the moment. The service is available to everybody within the city.

Senator Bannon

Regarding the difference in household charges in south Dublin, do people go to the remote rural countryside to dump waste? Is that a problem or has it been overcome? It is still a problem in some parts of the country.

Mr. Walsh

Historically, it was a problem. It is not that great a problem now. Equally, I should make the point that our charges are some of the cheapest in the country in net cost to the householder. The rural hinterland around the city generally extends to a mile or two and historically we had some problems with illegal dumping there, perhaps extending outside that area. During the past number of years, our litter wardens, in co-operation with county litter wardens, significantly concentrated in those areas and the situation has improved dramatically.

Some illegal dumping still occurs in the city centre. We run clean-up operations during the year that collect 600 to 800 tonnes of waste in total. It sounds a lot but in truth it reflects those few hundred households mentioned. I put a caveat on that. Some of it is caused by charges but it is not the only reason. Before charges were introduced illegal dumping took place. It does not sound rational but it was the case. Rubbish such as furniture or bags were dumped on greens. A certain dysfunctional element is involved.

Deputy McCormack

Just on that point, do private licensed collectors collect waste from households and put it in land pits? I do not mean the people who go from house to house. I mean people who offer their services through advertising in local newspapers and giving a mobile telephone number. Are they licensed by the city council?

Mr. Lonergan

They must be authorised through having a waste collection permit. We find that many are not. Many people collect waste using a trailer and a van. We target them through the Waste Management Act, enforcement and surveillance. People provide that service and use mobile telephones for contact purposes.

Deputy McCormack

Our city is the same as Dublin. The difficulty there is that some collectors do not manage to reach the landfill with the waste collected.

Mr. Walsh

We have a couple of prosecutions pending in that area, and we have Garda assistance——

Deputy McCormack

Is that part of the 670 tonnes collected in the city each year?

Mr. Walsh

Yes.

Senator Bannon

Does Mr. Lonergan have detection apparatus such as a camera that can be placed in a rural area prone to illegal dumping?

Mr. Lonergan

We recently purchased cameras and we hope to install them and give full training for their use at the end of the month. Covert cameras the size of a microphone can be installed with full recording facilities. That should assist us. Much of the dumping occurs after 5 p.m. in darkness and at weekends.

Senator Bannon

There should be greater public awareness of the existence of those cameras. The public is not aware of them and a public relations campaign on their existence would eliminate much of the illegal dumping that occurs, particularly in rural counties.

Senator Kitt

How many environmental inspectors are there? Mr. Lonergan's newsletter refers to environmental inspectors examining bins. Do they also deal with illegal dumping?

Mr. Lonergan

We have three litter wardens at present, including one environmental technician who deals with illegal collectors, bottle banks and the monitoring of blackspot areas of illegal dumping. With regard to collection, we employ two inspectors to inspect contamination and quality of material put in brown and green bins.

Senator Kitt

Do the same people address the issue of burning in backyards?

Mr. Lonergan

Yes, we have wardens and the environmental technician. Legal proceedings are pending in two cases of illegal burning in backyards.

Senator Kitt

What is the position on bottle banks? Are they operated by somebody else or does the council have a role in that?

Mr. Walsh

We have 30 in the city, generally in open space areas, although some are located in shopping centres and other businesses. They tend to be smaller sites and are supported by Repak. We also have a larger civic amenity facility, which we are using as transfer station. We collect from all the minor sites ourselves and bring the material to that centre. A private contractor then removes glass and other material from the larger centre. Collecting from smaller sites allows us the flexibility to respond on an ongoing basis to full banks and fluctuations in demand.

Senator Kitt

A big problem arises when bottle banks are full and people dump stuff on the ground. Unfortunately, a lot of breakages are also seen in such situations.

Senator Bannon

From time to time, does Waterford City Council issue a questionnaire so that people can comment on the operation of its waste management plan? If so, have questions been included with regard to incineration, which the general public strongly rejects because of possible health effects, including increased risk of cancer? Can the council supply any details on the thinking of the population of the south east with regard to incineration?

Mr. Walsh

We have conducted some limited surveying in terms of the waste management plan in that area. The samples were not that large but my general perception from the figures is that there is a slightly greater acceptance now than heretofore of the need for thermal treatment. While I have to stress that the samples are only in the order of the hundreds, they indicate an acceptance level in the region of 60%. That depends, however, on how the question is phrased.

I have been involved in waste management in one form or another for the past 25 years. The extent of change in the past five years has been greater than in the previous 25 and I expect that the change in the next five will be greater still. We are getting there and will not be holding this debate in four or five years' time. I will nail my colours to the mast by saying that I support thermal treatment. In terms of energy recovery and a shrinking natural energy resource base, it makes sense at a point in the waste management structure. That point comes after reasonable efforts are made with regard to reduction, prevention, recycling and recovery. Householders and industries can only be expected to go a certain distance and there has to be a return for resource input, whether that involves physical or financial efforts. We will hit that wall when we reach 57% or 58%. I am satisfied we are approaching that level. Equally, the proposition that zero levels of waste can be achieved does not acknowledge the dysfunctionality involved in communicating with a vastly diverse population, which is not confined to any particular social group. Indeed, there is dysfunctionality within this room and I do not exclude myself from that.

Deputy McCormack

All our baskets are full of rubbish in the form of leaflets, circulars and glossy books, which we neither ordered nor wanted and which have accumulated over the Christmas period.

Senator Kitt

From the Fine Gael press office.

Senator Bannon

I have a supplementary question.

Chairman

I hope it is not about dysfunctionality in the Oireachtas.

Senator Bannon

What are the local authorities doing to allay the fears of the population? There are genuine fears about the health implications of incineration because no guarantees have been given on its safety. This is an issue in every local authority area and the Government seems to be sitting on the fence in respect of it. We have called for a scientific commission to investigate the health implications but it has not been put in place. Such a commission must be established and the Government must take the lead.

Senator Brennan

Where terminal treatment plants were adopted as part of the eight regional waste management plans, the figures for waste have been substantially reduced. What are Mr. Walsh's views on the need for terminal treatment in the eight regional areas? The volumes suggest — based on figures for the past five years — that one or two national facilities would meet the requirements in respect of the projections for waste.

Mr. Walsh

I am not sure I want to answer that question.

Chairman

Mr. Walsh does not have to do so. It is a little out of his area.

Mr. Walsh

From the technical engineering perspective, there is an argument for less than eight but not for as few as one or two.

Chairman

That concludes our deliberations. I compliment Mr. Walsh on his presentation pack and on the efforts Waterford City Council is making to communicate with the public.

I remind members that representatives from Galway County Council will attend the meeting next Wednesday. Three further local authorities and representatives of three other bodies will be here on the following two Wednesdays.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.10 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 18 January 2006.