I welcome Ms Julie O'Neill, Secretary General of the Department of Transport, Mr. Fintan Towey, principal officer in the air navigation service and the air service development division, Ms Mary McCullough, assistant principal in the air force division, Ms Mary Lally, principal officer in the road transport operator licensing and motor insurance intelligent transport systems division and Ms Orla Corrigan, assistant principal in the public transport regulation division. I thank them for their attendance to discuss the Department of Transport's six-monthly report on EU developments in the transport area. I ask the Secretary General to make her presentation, which will be followed by detailed questions from members. I will take questions from the first three members offering.
EU Developments in Transport: Discussion with Department of Transport.
Ms Julie O’Neill
I am pleased to be present today to address the committee and to discuss the many developments, both policy and legislative, taking place at EU level within the remit of the Department of Transport. I welcome the decision of the committee to invite all Secretaries General to speak on EU matters pertaining to their Departments. These meetings will be very helpful in increasing public awareness of the interface between national responsibilities, which reside with the Oireachtas, and the EU, in relation to legislation and policy making. Against the backdrop of the outcome of the referendum on the Lisbon treaty, they will help to ensure that the common benefits for Ireland, other member states and the EU institutions, of our involvement in Europe can reach a much wider audience.
Very often, the business of policy making, particularly European policy making, is couched in technical and complex language. This can lead to misunderstanding, lack of interest and even suspicion on the part of the general public. In light of this, anything we can do to communicate our role in Europe and Europe's role in Irish affairs, through information that is clear, easily understood and accessible, is welcome.
We are about half way through the current French Presidency of the EU. It may be useful for the committee to recall the Presidency's priorities in the transport area. An over-arching theme of the French Presidency is the greening of transport, which is linked, in turn, to France's very strong climate change agenda. A number of the Presidency's priorities relate to this agenda. For instance, in aviation the priority is progressing the single European sky package to make more efficient use of air space and reduce environmental impact. On road matters, key items include the revision of the Eurovignette Directive, which is the further move towards internalising the external costs of transport on the European road network. A directive is also being prepared on the promotion of clean and energy efficient vehicles. Other priorities include consolidation of the legislative regime with regard to access to the profession of road haulage operator and bus operator and changes to the regulatory regime that applies to road haulage and cross-border bus and coach services. In the maritime sector, the priority for the Presidency is progressing the third maritime safety package. In intermodal transport issues, the focus continues on Galileo, which is the European alternative to satellite radio navigation systems currently funded and controlled by military authorities.
I am aware that a number of issues referred to in my report to the committee for January to June of this year are of particular interest to the committee and I will focus the rest of my remarks on these areas. With regard to aviation, the single European sky regulatory initiative, developed in recent years by the European Commission, aims to lay the foundations of a unified air traffic management system which will be able to cater for the anticipated growth in air traffic. The initiative aims to restructure European air space as a function of air traffic flows rather than according to national borders. It will create additional capacity and increase the overall efficiency of the air traffic management system, with spin-off benefits for passengers and carriers alike. It will enhance cross-border co-ordination, remove administrative bottlenecks and enhance enforcement in air traffic management.
I know the committee is interested in the airports charging directive and I am sure we will return to this item in more detail later. The draft directive is due to be voted on by the European Parliament later this month, based on compromises negotiated between the Council and the Parliament. While Ireland and a number of countries would have favoured the inclusion of a market power test rather than a specific size threshold, the compromise of a threshold of 5 million passengers is a significant improvement on the original proposal for a 1 million passenger threshold. While it is possible that Shannon and Cork airports will, in time, reach the threshold, there is some headroom for these airports.
The recent EU-US open skies agreement provides a good example of the benefits of liberalisation in air transport markets. On 30 March 2008, the provisions of the first stage of the EU-US open skies agreement came into effect. Since that date, the transatlantic sector saw an 8% increase in EU-US flights scheduled in summer 2008, compared with summer 2007. Ireland has greatly benefited, with the introduction of three new direct services to Dublin. In the same vein, negotiations are currently under way between the European Union and Canada to establish an open aviation area, open market restrictions and achieve a high level of regulatory convergence. At the June 2008 Transport Council, Ireland announced the establishment of a joint functional airspace bloc, FAB, with the UK, following considerable analysis, stakeholder consultation and a number of high level meetings between both transport Departments and aviation authorities. This will lead to an increase in system capacity and provide efficiencies.
I know the committee has a particular interest in land transport matters and the consolidation of existing legislation in the area of access to the profession of road transport operator and access to the market for haulage and passenger operators. In so far as the road transport operator proposals are concerned, Ireland supports the consolidation and expansion of the regulatory regime, which includes new electronic registers containing information on operators and increased legal responsibility for transport managers. Transport managers would be permitted to work for up to four operators and manage a maximum of 50 vehicles. Smaller operators in Ireland, who must currently employ a full-time transport manager to manage three vehicles can now employ a manager on a part-time basis. Operators within a region may share the services of a transport manager, thus creating greater efficiencies and reducing overall operating costs.
The regulation also deals with issues around cabotage and will allow hauliers to conduct up to three cabotage operations in the space of seven days. This clarifies the current position, where cabotage is permitted on a temporary basis and where "temporary" is interpreted differently in different countries. The European Parliament has also proposed the removal of all restrictions on cabotage from 1 January 2014. These welcome developments will help liberalise the market and improve efficiency. The proposals will also enhance the safety of the road haulage industry and provide opportunities for better enforcement by the Garda and the Road Safety Authority.
The new arrangements on access to the profession of road haulage operator will also apply to bus operators. Furthermore, proposed changes to the licensing regime for the international carriage of passengers by bus deal with cabotage. These will allow bus operators from other jurisdictions to pick up and drop off passengers within the State, subject to domestic regulations. Ireland had concerns about the possible implications of these proposals for cross-border services. The Minister stated Ireland's concerns at the Council meeting in June, but found little support. In the wider interest of achieving political agreement on the overall land transport package he withdrew Ireland's reservation. This reflects the reality that in all areas of interest member states must operate in a spirit of compromise in the overall interest of the Community. The Presidency hopes to have agreement on the recitals by Christmas, after which the regulation can be agreed. There will be a period of two years before the new regime comes into effect.
I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to address the committee. My colleagues and I will be glad to be of assistance with queries.
I compliment the Secretary General on the six-monthly report. She dealt with four aspects just now but there are many other issues and the report is comprehensive. We will now take questions from members of the committee.
I thank the Secretary General for her presentation and co-operation with the committee. Her Department may have more interaction with the EU than others and a great deal of work is involved. I welcome the open skies initiative as it is very important for the liberalisation of transport, for access and for tourism. As other sectors of the economy experience turbulence it is important that we develop sectors, such as tourism, with potential for growth.
The Secretary General mentioned that at the Council meeting in June the Minister expressed concerns about the development of cross-border services. I am not familiar with this area and ask Ms O'Neill to outline the precise nature of those concerns. Are she and the Department satisfied that the envisaged difficulties can be overcome?
I thank Ms O'Neill and her team for attending this meeting and presenting us with the six-monthly report.
There have been 20 European directives in the past six months relating to transport so it is an active area in this respect. Ms O'Neill concentrated on the directive relating to aviation, airport charges and transport and I feel this directive is based on the presumption that there will be a substantial increase in air traffic. It is not long since the directive was introduced and discussed but is this presumption now open to re-examination? This is a relevant question given the approach of the French Presidency to climate change, public transport, fuel efficiency, reducing carbon emissions and so on. There will be greater emphasis on rail transport, particularly where it can take place in continental Europe. The enormous cost of fuel may affect the open skies liberalisation process as it was geared towards increased air transport activity in Europe and the US. Has there been any discussion about a fresh review of the situation? When the joint committee discussed the matter, it came to our attention that not all of the stakeholders had been consulted about the directive. A number of prominent stakeholders, including Ryanair, had not been informed of the proposals. What level of consultation on draft directives does the Department have with stakeholders?
What level of regulation would the Department seek to impose? In respect of recent major directives, regulation seems to have been very ineffective. Regulation is very important, particularly in transport, whether by road or air. What has the Department done in that regard?
Will Ms O'Neill reply to the questions of Deputies Creighton and Costello?
Ms Julie O’Neill
I will take them in reverse order and begin with the question on trends in air traffic. In Europe and worldwide we are experiencing a sea change in the air transport sector. The aviation sector is facing the single most difficult challenge, not just since the events of 11 September 2001 but in its history. We are facing into a significant shake-out in the sector with amalgamations of airlines and consolidation. There will be significant downward pressure on the numbers travelling by air, at least in the short term, arising from the combination of the slowdown in the global economy and domestic economic factors at play in Ireland such as the price of fuel. As was said, the sector is also affected by the climate change agenda, although that may not have the most pressing impact, as it is a longer-term issue.
I do not agree that it is necessary to revisit the overall strategy. Aviation is a cyclical industry and has always been subject to significant cyclical shocks, some of which have been related to the controlled nature of the sector and the lack of free movement and open competition. The moves made to liberalise the sector have been very significant and while the impact of the open skies agreement will not be as great in the short term as it would have been without the current downturn, in the longer term it positions both Irish and international airlines to be able to respond more quickly to an upturn in the economy. In a time of significant pressure on the sector the trend will be towards greater liberalisation such as has been achieved with the EU-Canada agreement so as to free up the sector and enable it to respond as speedily and efficiently as possible to changes in the context in which it operates.
The regulation of airports was not predicated on an expectation of continuing growth in airports but on a desire to ensure openness and transparency in the arrangements in place for charging regimes at airports. An interest in openness and transparency was behind the position adopted by the European Union and its desire for a threshold to be established as low as applied to airports with a capacity of 1 million passengers. The joint committee took a strong interest in the matter and the Department was concerned about what was a one size fits all approach which would have resulted in over-elaborate regulation. Not long ago we removed Cork Airport and Shannon Airport from the regulatory regime of the Commission for Aviation Regulation. We argued strongly and supported views similar to those expressed by the joint committee. We proposed a lighter touch approach to regulation and achieved the 5 million passenger threshold. We might have preferred it to be even larger but must accept reality. Like the committee, we argued for a market power test rather than a simple focus on scale. The 5 million threshold and the fact that it is applied to the largest airport in a country mean that Luxembourg, for example, where the main airport is very small by scale is caught. This is the nature of the compromises worked out. We have a Commission for Aviation Regulation which regulates Dublin Airport. If we find that Shannon Airport and-or Cork Airport are brought within the regime, we will seek to find the lightest touch to the regulatory regime necessary to be consistent and compliant with the regulation. Certain choices are available to us under the directive, as framed, as to how we could do this.
The general situation regarding regulatory controls differs depending on whether one is talking about road transport or aviation and whether a situation lends itself to international competition, as the aviation sector does, or calls for a different approach, as our national transport provision does. Members may know we are in the business of producing proposals to reform the outdated 1932 Act and looking at a new regulatory model for the delivery of public transport. In all sectors, particularly in the aviation sector, we have a good track record of engaging with all key stakeholders, including the airports, the Irish Aviation Authority and the airlines, with regard to recommendations coming from the European Union. We try to take their views on board as far as possible. Obviously, compromises must be arrived at.
Deputy Creighton asked about the implications for Ireland of deregulation of cross-border routes. When one talks about cross-border services in Ireland, one is speaking of services between Northern Ireland and the Republic. The proposal is to deregulate cross-border routes where a public service order, PSO, regulator is not in place. We have a PSO regime under which payments are made to Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann in respect of services. One can subject any request to run services across the border to the requirements of our regulatory regime for PSOs. Where we have licensed services, we can also take account of the 1932 Act. I will ask one of my colleagues to explain what this means. First, I will ask Ms McCullagh to comment on the consultation issue.
Ms Mary McCullagh
When the initial draft directive was circulated, there was consultation with the major stakeholders. They included the Dublin Airport Authority, the Commission for Aviation Regulation and the major airlines operating here, including Ryanair. The directive was copied to them and their comments on it were invited.
Ms Orla Corrigan
Our concern regarding the liberalisation of cross-border services is that it completely deregulates point to point cross-border services. In the case, for example, of services from Belfast to Dublin, neither the Department nor the Northern Ireland authorities would have a say in when and where bus services should stop or start. We normally have a say in such matters in the interests of safety and general good regulation. We are also concerned that under the regulation only the PSO services would be protected. Our only reason to refuse an application for a cross-Border point to point service would be that it would, effectively, reduce the financial viability of a funded service. Most of our cross-Border services are not PSO funded. The Belfast to Dublin service, for example, is a commercial one provided by Bus Éireann. There are also services in the Donegal area, provided by the Lough Swilly company, which perform a very important social role. There are services between Derry and Buncrana and between Derry and Letterkenny. Under this regulation, these services will be open to total competition. We have a concern with cherry-picking. Unfortunately, we are the only member state who has that sort of system and concern, which is why the Minister found no support for this at the working group. Cabotage is not included in this, so the stopping services, for example from Belfast to Dublin, with a stop in Dundalk, are not included and remain under the 1932 Act. It is a minimal number of bus services in the country which will be affected by this.
I welcome the delegation, their comprehensive report and their interaction with the committee which is very useful. I complement the delegation for increasing the threshold from the original proposal of €1 million. If one told the management of Shannon or Cork that they would have greater regulation and five million passengers it is a problem they would happily deal with today.
Regarding regulation across the aviation sector from a European perspective and recognising some of the issues Deputy Costello raised with the global economic downturn which will have an impact for much longer than any of us initially suspected six or twelve months ago, and taking into account the focus on climate change there will be consolidation in the market. There will be consolidation of airlines and routes, and larger aircraft. Does the delegation believe it is time for a more coordinated approach at a European level, to look at where the aviation sector is going and identify policy priorities? The delegation might also identify what it sees as policy priorities as a result of the uncertainty. It will have a medium term view on what will happen, and a longer term view. The medium term outlook clearly shows that carriers in Ireland for instance are grounding aircraft. They see a significant reduction in the numbers going from point to point.
The delegation does not have a crystal ball, but perhaps it has some thoughts on how Europe could deal with that from a regulatory point of view.
I too welcome the delegation and thank it for its presentation. The maritime safety package is a priority for the French Presidency, but can the delegation provide a brief update on any potential impact it will have on Irish coastal waters? On the issue of transport managers and fifty trucks, is that a maximum? With the bigger transport companies, is one limited to one operator for 50 trucks, or five managers for 250? On energy efficient vehicles, what is the Department's view on the current fleets operating within Ireland? Many trucks run quite easily on a 50-50 mix of bio-fuel and diesel without much adjustment. Is introducing a 50-50 mix something we should consider for all fleet operators here?
Ms Julie O’Neill
The committee will appreciate that I do not want to stray into the area of policy formulation because that would not be appropriate.
On Deputy Dooley's comments on the aviation sector, it is important from Ireland's perspective as an island nation that we keep a very clear focus on what we need in aviation terms. In that sense I am more concerned that we be clear in our minds about a broader European agenda which we want to watch closely. From an Irish perspective, international connectivity is hugely important. Connectivity means efficient, well functioning airports that are attractive to carriers, wherever they may be located. When carriers choose to use Shannon Airport, Cork Airport and Dublin Airport, they must believe they will get a good deal and a quality service. They must believe they will be able to do business with these airports. The regulation of airport charges forms a small part of the overall picture but we have national policies in this regard and do everything we can to support airports in having the right infrastructure and charging regimes in place.
We need viable Irish and international airlines. It is not in our interests to stand in the way of the measures airlines must take to ensure their future viability. Around Europe national airlines and former national airlines have come close to becoming basket cases. That would not be in anyone's interests. In this sense we must let the market do what it will to shake out such issues. At European level we can take the measures seen in the single skies package, something in which Mr. Fintan Towey has been heavily involved, which are designed to improve the efficiency of the utilisation of European air space. Anything that can help to reduce the cost base of airlines and enhance the efficiency of air traffic control systems is welcome. There are inefficiencies inherent in a system that sees so many national players involved and artificial borders and route networks in the sky. It is important that this be improved.
As regards climate change, the aviation sector will have to play its part. We are always conscious that measures taken in this area should not disadvantage Ireland which, as an island nation, is, arguably, more dependent on air transport than other countries. Using the open skies backdrop, we must give the airlines and airports as much freedom as possible to compete effectively and efficiently in what is a difficult situation. There have been severe cyclical shocks to the aviation sector before and they tend to come in waves. This shock is worse than the others — it is not just a question of the American or the Irish economy, it is a worldwide phenomenon. The shock has been coupled with very high oil prices. We must try to help the aviation sector to develop, over time, the ability to withstand such shocks. The privatisation of Aer Lingus some years ago gave it cash on its balance sheet to help it cope with the current difficult situation, notwithstanding the fact that it will continue to face significant challenges.
In Europe we are mindful of ways to help streamline how things are done and to get rid of inefficiencies inherent to the region. On the other hand, we watch Ireland's specific interests as an island nation. There has been progress on the maritime safety package and significant political agreement has been reached in this regard. The French see this as a priority. In total, there are eight directives and regulations in this area and we are very supportive of the package which we believe is good for Ireland which is a small player in Europe's shipping industry. This is a major issue for some countries. We welcome measures designed to enhance the safety of the maritime sector and have no major issues with what has been proposed. However, we must ensure the regulatory burdens that flow from the package are not overly onerous for Ireland, as it is a relatively small player.
Ms Lally will address the question on transport managers.
Ms Mary Lally
In Ireland 50% of operators have one vehicle and 20% have two, while the average number of vehicles per licensed operator is 3.5. The law requires each operator to have a professional qualification or to employ a transport manager holding the qualification. This applies even if an operator only has one vehicle, which is wasteful and imposes additional operating costs. The EU proposal is for a transport manager to act for up to four operations and be able to manage 50 vehicles, although the member state will retain the flexibility to decide whether he or she has enough time to manage 50 vehicles and to vary the amount as necessary. It means that operators can now employ a transport manager on a part-time basis and other operators can avail of the manager's services, which should reduce operating costs.
Ms Julie O’Neill
That is a very welcome development because it will help to increase the efficiency of the industry. We are happy with a number of developments in the package because we have very small players and our concern is to protect their interests.
A question was asked about the proposed directive on clean and efficient road transport vehicles. The directive concerns the procurement policies to be followed in that regard and we welcome it from the point of view of sustainability. However, we will have to monitor the working of some of the specific proposals made.
There has been a debate on bio-fuels and their role in this area. The Minister for Transport will shortly bring forward proposals for a sustainable transport and travel plan and we will consider the measures we can take in the course of drafting. We support the drive in Europe and elsewhere to encourage the use of clean vehicles.
Ms Mary Lally
The road haulage industry raised the issue of bio-fuels in recent months and met bilaterally the Department of Energy, Communications and Natural Resources to explore how to reduce fuel costs. The Department is putting its plans on bio-fuels out to consultation.
I do not want to intrude on how the Department conducts its business but what procedures are in place for dealing with EU directives? Is there a section which specifically deals with them? Does legislation coming from the European Union have a tendency to substitute for domestic legislation? Does the European Union provide the majority of legislation or is it on the periphery of the Department's work?
Ms Julie O’Neill
The European Union is certainly not on the periphery of our work. It is a very useful exercise to work through the many ramifications of the European agenda. It is important to be very clear about our national policy perspective and what changes we can make to domestic legislation. We have a number of pieces of very outdated legislation such as the Road Transport Act 1932 and an Act of 1895 dealing with maritime safety. We are in the process of amending these Acts in accordance with our own priorities but must watch what comes down the tracks from the European Union. We are very alive to the importance of getting in early to influence matters which form part of the European agenda to ensure they accurately reflect the Irish perspective.
With the increasing complexity of the decision-making process and increased role of Parliament, for example, things may reach a point where it is too late to intervene. Some members may have been involved in the recent enactment of the Dublin Transport Authority Act. Significant amendments were made to that Act to take account of the expected European PSO regulation and to make sure the Act was fully consistent with it. The Department has a very small EU co-ordinating division which keeps track of all material and we have two people in the permanent representation in Brussels watching our interests across the board. By and large, the line divisions of the Department deal with specific sectoral policy issues. Mr. Fintan Towey worked in our permanent representation in Brussels and now deals with the aviation side. He may wish to comment on the process.
Mr. Fintan Towey
Our input is co-ordinated through the permanent representation in Brussels, which takes instructions from the Department on policy positions. As draft directives are published by the European Commission, it is for the Department of Transport, in the first instance, to evaluate each proposal, carry out whatever consultation is necessary with interested parties and develop a policy position. At European level, the proposals are initially examined in detail at working group level. There are four working groups dealing with the transport area. Three deal with aviation, land transport and maritime affairs and there is a horizontal issues working group. It is in the working groups that many of the issues are resolved and much consensus is achieved. Issues that cannot be resolved at that level feed through to the Committee of Permanent Representatives at which every member state is represented at ambassador level. It seeks to resolve remaining issues. Issues which that committee cannot resolve are referred to the transport council for political resolution by Ministers.
Ms Julie O’Neill
The European transport agenda has been consistent with and supported the kind of things we are trying to do in Ireland, from a good governance perspective. The fact that we are a small island nation on the periphery of Europe means that we must be careful that policies which may be sensible and in the interests of the larger European countries also adequately reflect our concerns. For example, we are not connected by rail to any place, apart from Northern Ireland. We must watch the decisions taken in that area and see that regulatory regimes are not too onerous for us or not relevant to us. This committee can be helpful in picking up on issues, giving us feedback and supporting arguments that need to be put forward at an early stage in the process.
In your introduction, Ms O'Neill, you referred to the democratic deficit in the transfer of European regulation into Irish law. How could giving information on that issue to the Irish people be enhanced? This is an important issue. Your very comprehensive report dealt with many aspects of the EU Scrutiny Act. How effective is the Act? How could it be improved on? How could the Department enlighten the public on forthcoming EU legislation and its impact on the ordinary citizen? This democratic deficit was an important issue in the Lisbon Treaty debate. By debating EU directives, the committee can prevent them from becoming faits accomplis. Deputy Costello referred to the amount of work which comes through your Department. An example is the EU-Australia agreement on passenger name records which was the basis of a departmental report. There can be a negative effect when such a matter is not correctly transposed or explained.
Ms Julie O’Neill
As I said, I welcome the approach of the Chairman. The idea of calling all Secretaries General before the committee is a good one. The six-monthly reports, of which there have been two so far, are a good exercise and I take a close interest in them. We will consider how we can make them as user-friendly as possible. I made an opening statement on how to communicate effectively but when I read my own briefing material from the Department, I found some of it to be very complex and technical. As I said to Mr. Towey, something such as SESAR, the technological underpinning of the single skies agreement, can be confusing.
A combination of measures is required. We have a good arrangement with the joint committee for the way we provide it with scrutiny notes. Both the Minister and I see them to ensure they communicate complex issues as simply as possible. Getting the material to the committee as soon as possible is important in order that the committee has an opportunity to engage with it. We have made officials available to the committee and they have attended its meetings on a number of occasions. The six-monthly reports are also important, as is how they are disseminated by the committee on the Houses of the Oireachtas website.
The Department is looking at how it can strengthen its internal information management and we have recently enhanced our website. I will consider whether it would be valuable to publish summaries of some of our reports on the website. If the Chairman still finds our material difficult, he can ask for a layman's guide. The secretariat has been very constructive and we would be glad to oblige.
We can keep an eye out for opportunities to place in the public domain any information we regard as of general interest. We should make more efforts to sell to the public an idea of just how important is the work being carried out at European level and how it can impact on the lives of ordinary citizens, often in constructive ways. For example, the proposals regarding transport operators have the potential to significantly improve the efficiency and capacity of the road haulage sector. We already work with stakeholders but there is a wider audience with whom we need to communicate.
It is important that developments in the road transport area are communicated in order that bus operators and hauliers know exactly what is coming. It is also important there be support from the Department. In this regard, the Minister attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport to discuss the relevant issues. It would be helpful if this committee had advance notice of what was proposed for the next EU Presidency because much of our work is retrospective.
Ms Julie O’Neill
That is a very important point because there is a risk that the committee will find itself catching up with issues when it is too late to influence them. The committee did a lot of useful work on airport charges but it was late in the process. We will be glad to do anything we can to give it a feeling for the issues coming up.
It is also important to communicate any bad news. While we achieve many successes in our negotiations with the European Union, inevitably there will be times such as with the cross-border discussions and airport charges when there will have to be compromises and it is important to explain the context in which we arrive at any agreements in that regard.
Ms O'Neill is the first Secretary General to come before the committee and we thank her very much. We intend to pursue these issues with all Departments and receive a six-monthly report covering the period January to June in all cases. It is important to hold debates on relevant issues in the Houses of the Oireachtas, either in the Dáil or the Seanad. While a committee can do a huge amount of work, it is important that issues are discussed in plenary session of the Dáil. We hope to have more debate on this issue.
The aspect of the investigation we undertook concerning the bus operators and airport charges was very beneficial because it meant the issue of subsidiarity was examined in detail. From the perspective of Oireachtas Members, this is where the "bottom up" approach would be very relevant so we would not breach subsidiarity approaches, particularly as the consensus on airport charges was that, ultimately, the passenger would pay the additional charges and the proportionality would also be unfair.
We touched on four aspects of what is a very detailed report. To go through it briefly, it deals with the issue of open skies, the single European sky, the establishment of the European air space block, many aspects of European aviation safety and the whole issue of rationalisation, which is also a huge area. A further point concerned PNR. Is that effective?
Ms Julie O’Neill
Yes, it is effective. Mr. Towey might wish to comment.
Mr. Fintan Towey
To a large extent, the issues in regard to PNR are, on the one hand, the need to constantly seek to improve security in aviation and, on the other, the need to balance that against meeting data protection needs. This is the essential balance we have been trying to seek in concluding the agreements with the US and Canada in particular.
Are all passenger details forwarded to Australia and America?
Mr. Fintan Towey
That is essentially the case.
In recent times many files and computers have gone missing. Are there safeguards to prevent this happening?
Mr. Fintan Towey
Protection arrangements are in place to ensure the integrity of the data and ensure the data is kept securely and is not used for inappropriate purposes.
Do the Americans retain records for seven years?
Mr. Fintan Towey
I am not sure of the number of years but there are extensive protection arrangements in place.
Deputy Connick referred to maritime safety and shipping. The directive on flag state control requirements was a big issue previously with regard to people working on vessels coming into Ireland. Was there clarification with regard to state control? On another issue, have there been any recorded breaches with regard to ship's ballast and pollution of Irish waters?
Ms Julie O’Neill
No. On flag state control, we have supported that proposal from the beginning and any reservations we had on the original proposal are addressed in the revised French Presidency text, which aims to ensure that member states effectively discharge their obligations as flag states.
They are flags of convenience. Does this affect employment entitlements?
Ms Julie O’Neill
Interestingly, the issue at European level concerned whether it should be done within an International Maritime Office framework as opposed to having an EU solution. As I am not sure what was decided, I would have to check. I will come back to the Chairman as to whether this has particular implications for flags of convenience. From our perspective, we supported this proposal.
We obviously are concerned about pollution given that we have so many kilometres of coastline which are always vulnerable in this regard. While there have not been breaches, we welcome any measures taken to enhance overall protection against maritime pollution.
Is there a strict code of conduct for all vessels coming into Irish waters? Does the control only apply to Irish vessels?
Ms Julie O’Neill
No, there is a code of conduct in place. Ms Lally will comment further.
Ms Mary Lally
There are controls for all vessels, both our own flag ships and visiting ships. There is port state control whereby every ship that comes in must be inspected by a marine surveyor and must comply with international and EU law. There are also measures in place to counter pollution. For example, the committee may recall the Princess Eva came into Donegal perhaps three years ago and when it was surveyed by the marine surveyor’s office, 3 metre cracks in its hull were found. The Coast Guard anti-pollution section cordoned off the ship and the operators were made to remove all oil from the ship and put it on to two new vessels, which were inspected before they came in. The surveyors prevented a disaster which would have been on the scale of that of the Erica off the coast of France. There are good controls in place with the Irish Coast Guard and marine survey office.
Ms Julie O’Neill
There are two measures, one of which is the directive on the civil liability of ship owners, one of the two outstanding directives to be finalised. That is also relevant in this area because it puts a clear responsibility on ship owners to be insured for the impact of any negligence involved in the discharge of pollutants. The other measure, of which the committee became aware recently, is a new directive on penalties for ship sourced pollution. There was an original directive which provided for criminal penalties set at EU level but there was an ECJ ruling in the matter which is being dealt with in the working group on substantive criminal law. A consequence will be that it will still require penalties which will be set at national level, which we welcome. Again, it involves the principle of subsidiarity. We prefer the idea that the Irish State can decide its own penalties.
There is another directive on inland waterways.
Ms Julie O’Neill
It has few implications for us. Obviously, it applies to those countries that have significant inland waterways. Effectively, it has no implications for us.
Once a measure is agreed, what happens at that point in transposing it into Irish legislation? Are most of the measures now dealt with through primary or secondary legislation or statutory instrument? A new law was passed two years ago which allowed many of these measures to be dealt with in statutory instruments. Is there a timescale? Does the Department pass it to the Minister and it becomes a political issue or does it retain responsibility at that stage for its implementation?
Ms Julie O’Neill
In recent years we have given a great deal of attention in the Department to the issue of transposition of directives. The Deputy will be aware that Ireland was generally somewhat late in the transposition of a number of directives. The trick is to get to the stage where, as soon as something is enacted, one moves to transpose it quickly rather than wait until even the knowledge is lost. Ideally, the people who have been involved in the working groups and the negotiation of directives are best placed to begin work quickly on their transposition. We were significantly in arrears in the transposition of directives but have now caught up. There are always one or two due for transposition by a certain date.
The Deputy asked how this dovetailed with the national legislative programme. As part of tracking our legislative programme, our management board takes a report on a monthly basis from within the Department on the position with all our legislative obligations, including national primary and secondary legislation and the transposition of directives. We track and monitor progress and try, as far as possible, to adhere to the deadlines imposed. Sometimes, however, there are obstacles. If a regulation deals with aviation, for example, which requires a third party such as the Commission on Aviation Regulation or the Irish Aviation Authority to take responsibility for implementation of part of it, we might have to engage in negotiations with these bodies. In the case of road safety, much of the work on the transposition of directives that relate to vehicle standards and so forth would be done by the Road Safety Authority. We try to do as much as we can through secondary legislation but there are times when changes to primary legislation are required. Perhaps some of my colleagues will comment from experience.
Ms Mary Lally
One usually gets a date with a directive, which is usually two years to transpose and implement it after it is finalised. With regard to the transport operator regulations due to be finalised in December this year, we have started the process of examining our national legislation to see what changes must be introduced, whether they will be in primary or secondary legislation, to implement the regulations. We have also met the enforcement authorities. Not only must we transpose or adopt the regulation, we must also implement it. The procedures must be in place to ensure there is greater enforcement activity, depending on the directive.
Is it normally done through secondary legislation?
Ms Julie O’Neill
Yes, where possible. In some areas we must have primary legislation.
When Ms O'Neill refers to secondary legislation, is she referring to regulations and statutory instruments?
Ms Julie O’Neill
Yes; they are laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Are the majority of EU directives not subjected to discussion in the Dáil?
Ms Julie O’Neill
This committee obviously has a role.
Where transport issues arise, the Minister would deal with them.
Ms Julie O’Neill
Where the directives require regulations consistent with pre-existing national legislation, no problem arises because the powers are provided in that national legislation for the Minister to act. A good example is the directive on public service order obligations, of which the public transport sector required us to take account in the context of the Dublin Transport Authority Act. It will also require us to take account of it in the amendment of the 1932 Act.
Many of these matters are routine and straightforward and lend themselves to being addressed by regulation. There are no major issues for the Oireachtas but I would have believed the existence of this committee would have afforded a valuable opportunity to Members to become familiar with them. I would not like to call it as to the proportion but enacting or changing primary legislation is obviously a very time consuming process. The process of bringing measures into national law can be speeded up and we do it when we need to.
I compliment the Secretary General and her team on the 2007 report which is very open. The Department is recognised for placing all information in the public domain, which is not the case with every Department. I congratulate the Department for putting everything on the table; this is very important.
While 98% of directives have been transposed into Irish law, are there many outstanding in the Department?
Ms Julie O’Neill
I recall that one or two are outstanding but I will revert to the Chairman on the matter, as I do not have the precise details to hand.
I thank the Secretary General and her team for attending and the detailed report they submitted. The presentation was very informative. It is important to correct the democratic deficit. That is why we hope there will be sufficient scrutiny. We also hope some of these issues will be debated in the Chambers on an ongoing basis.