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Joint Committee on European Union Affairs díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023

Ireland and the EU 2023 Poll Results: Discussion

We will resume in public session. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Ms Noelle O'Connell, CEO of European Movement Ireland. She is joined by her colleagues, Ms Dee McMahon, chief operations officer, and Dr. Matthew G. O'Neill, EU information and research officer. We will be discussing the findings of European Movement Ireland's 2023 opinion poll.

All witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of a person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory with regard to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks.

I invite Ms O'Connell to make her opening statement.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

I am really grateful for the opportunity to address the committee. I am delighted to be joined by our chief operations officer Dee McMahon and our EU policy, information and research officer Dr. Matthew G. O'Neill, who recently finished his PhD at Queen's University Belfast.

Is mór agam a bheith anseo inniu agus táiman-bhuíoch as an gcuireadh labhairt libh inniu ar ábhair fhíorthábhachtach dúinne i nGluaiseacht na hEorpa in Éirinn, agus daoibhse mar choiste gan amhras. It is a privilege to be here today to discuss the findings of the 2023 European Movement Ireland’s annual EU opinion poll. This year is the first year there has been the first dedicated concurrent all-island opinion poll on EU issues. I will also briefly discuss the launch of our new disinformation research project, which may be of interest to members of this committee.

As we mark Ireland's 50 years of EU membership this year as well as the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, the findings of this year’s EU opinion poll are even more significant. At the same time, we are looking towards 2024, which will mark a pivotal election for the European Parliament as well as being a significant year for us as we mark and celebrate the 70th anniversary of our foundation as an organisation.

As I mentioned, this is the first time we have included Northern Ireland in the findings.

Of course, I do not have to tell distinguished members of this committee that, since Brexit, the relationship between people in Northern Ireland and the EU has become uncertain, and we think it is important to measure public sentiment towards the major issues affecting the relationship between the EU and this island as a whole.

Since 2013, we have carried out annual independent polling on Ireland’s relationship with the EU. Our effort to track and analyse Irish sentiment towards the EU is unique and, I hope, valuable. The regularity with which we carry out this exercise allows us to not only capture sentiment as a snapshot in time but also affords us the opportunity to track changes and present trends on Irish EU sentiment that have occurred over the years. Bearing the usual caveats and associated health warnings about opinion polls in mind, I will highlight a few points from our results this year that the committee may find interesting. Time prevents us from going into in-depth analysis of all the questions, but we have picked a flavour and snapshot that I hope committee members will find interesting.

Our perennial and constant question relates to support for Ireland's continued membership of the EU. This year, support remains stable and positive at 88% in Ireland and 79% in Northern Ireland. Interestingly, support was highest in both the youngest and oldest age cohorts at 93% and 91%, respectively. While support for Ireland remaining a member of the EU remains stable and positive at 88% in Ireland, just 58% believed the EU is moving in the right direction. There was a significant increase, of 9%, of the number of people in Ireland unsure if they felt the EU is moving in the right direction. That jump from 18% to 27% in one year is a salutary reminder that we cannot be complacent about the importance of continually engaging with the public on Ireland’s relationship with the EU. However, more encouragingly, as we face into next year's European Parliament elections, 70% of people in Ireland say they could not be convinced that we would be better off outside of the EU. Three quarters of people in Northern Ireland, at 74%, but only 51% in Ireland, believed that Northern Ireland should be represented in the European Parliament.

We then looked at some policy areas that Irish people wished for greater EU involvement in. There was a clear demand for the EU to be more active in policy areas. One in three want to see an increased role for the EU in healthcare, at 32%, and housing at 28%. Housing, understandably, was seen to be a higher priority for younger people. Interestingly, in Northern Ireland, the environment topped the poll at 32%, followed by healthcare at 25%.

Regarding the question on a united Ireland, our poll found that approximately one in four people, or 24%, in Ireland believe that there will be a united Ireland in the EU within ten years. This represents a 7% decrease since our poll last year. Meanwhile, in Northern Ireland, almost half the respondents, or 45%, believe that there will be a united Ireland in the EU within ten years. What we found surprising from the findings was that large jump of people in Ireland in one year, up from 43% to 58%, who do not believe that there will be a united Ireland in the next ten years. This is particularly noteworthy, as the responses on this issue had previously remained relatively constant over the last three years, with about one third of people in Ireland every year saying they believed there would be a united Ireland in the EU.

On budgetary issues, our poll found that more people in Ireland are satisfied, at 43%, than dissatisfied, at 35%, that Ireland pays more than it receives as a net contributor to the EU budget. Of course, there has been much discussion on defence, security and neutrality. Only last week, we saw Professor Louise Richardson present her consultative forum report to the Tánaiste. Approximately half those polled, 49% in Ireland, and 52% in Northern Ireland, feel that Ireland should be part of increased EU defence and security cooperation. The number opposing participation is higher in Northern Ireland. Those aged over 55, both in Ireland and Northern Ireland, were most likely to respond in favour of increased participation.

We looked at media. Our findings showed that traditional media remains the critical and vital source of information on EU issues. It ranked highest for both Ireland, at 61%, and Northern Ireland at 62%. Social media ranked in second place for both jurisdictions.

We then looked at areas of trust. This was an interesting finding, being able to do it for both North and South for the first time. In Ireland, our poll reports an equal division of trust between the Irish Government at 50% and the EU at 50%. In Northern Ireland, 44% trust the EU, compared with 34% for the Irish Government and 22% for the British Government. In Ireland, those aged 18 to 34 were most likely to trust the EU, while in Northern Ireland, those between 18 to 34 were most likely to trust the Irish Government.

I look forward to committee members' questions on our poll. To sum up, overall, our survey reveals stable and overwhelmingly positive support for Ireland's continued EU membership, but like all relationships, it must be engaged with and nurtured, and concerns exist about the EU's future direction, which highlights the importance of continually engaging with our relationship with the EU, with all members of the public.

I will briefly discuss our ambitious new research project, of which our first findings were published this month. We feel it follows on and supports the work that we are doing on our annual polling but also as part of our mission and remit to promote and encouragement engagement with factual information on our relationship with the EU. Our work in this area is to understand the impact of disinformation on Irish social media discourse because, of course, disinformation poses a serious threat to Ireland's democracy, national security, and social cohesion. Those disinformation campaigns seek to manipulate public opinion and can undermine free and fair elections and other democratic institutions. By understanding the nature of these disinformation threats, Ireland can take measures to safeguard our democratic processes, monitor risks to national security, and build a more resilient society.

One definition of "disinformation" is that it can be defined as false information that is shared deliberately online and is often used to sow confusion around different issues and create conflict. One challenge we collectively face when disinformation goes viral online is that it is often too late to counteract the damage done at that stage. We only need to examine disinformation's impact on the Covid-19 pandemic to understand its influences. Disinformation led to fewer people getting vaccinated and divided communities. Our poll two years ago found that 45% of respondents said that they had confidence in the EU’s vaccine strategy.

A core theme emerging from our analysis is how disinformation rhetoric exploits division and grievances within Irish society, for example, on issues such as NATO membership, the digital euro and many more topics. Another theme that we have seen in our research is how language inflames anti-immigrant prejudice, for example by scapegoating Ukrainian refugees for domestic problems as we have seen in our analysis of the data sets we looked at.

Together, these themes reveal how disinformation erodes complex debates. The narratives present a binary of us versus them, the people against the elites, nationals against foreigners, and so on. This fragments public discourse, degrades trust in institutions and risks undermining Ireland's democratic culture over time. Within the last year, we have seen the rise and use of generative AI. To tackle disinformation within Irish society, automation will not be enough. A balanced combination of technology and human oversight is needed. No single actor can tackle disinformation alone.

We would like to thank and pay tribute to the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, and her departmental colleagues for the establishment of the national counter disinformation strategy working group, and the various academic researchers, fact-checkers, platforms, government agencies, civil society organisations and other experts with whom we had the opportunity to engage and who regularly share best practices and insights on evolving disinformation with us. To maximise impact of this project, European Movement Ireland as an NGO has adopted an evidence-based strategy grounded in research. We must understand how disinformation spreads and affects communities. In an organisation founded to connect and promote citizens, citizens and that engagement are at the heart of the all work we do. We will be ensure the development of tailored awareness campaigns and literacy programmes within our area of expertise of the EU to build societal resilience.

It is also imperative to continue collaborating with media outlets and civil society organisations to facilitate access to trusted sources of factual information.

I stress to the committee that it is vital that civil society organisations and NGOs be supported in their efforts to tackle this crucial issue. With our community ties, our on-the-ground experience and our hyperlocal expertise, we believe that NGOs are indispensable allies in this important fight against disinformation.

I look forward to addressing some of these issues with the committee and thank the members for the opportunity to engage with and address them. I look forward to their questions and comments.

Thank you, Ms O'Connell, for your opening remarks. In passing, and before I open the floor, the bed bug story in France yesterday was interesting. One of the stories planted was that Ukrainians arriving into Europe were responsible. That was printed by reputable newspapers and now, due to investigation, has been shown quite clearly to have been one of these completely made-up stories that was circulated as disinformation. It shows how vulnerable groups can be targeted by misinformation.

Members are offering to contribute. Deputy Ó Murchú indicated first.

I thank our guests. The poll involves a sample of 1,200 in both the North and the South, and I welcome the fact that it is done on an all-Ireland basis. No matter what any poll says, that is the trajectory we are on. EM Ireland hardly got a breakdown as to how people designated themselves in how they made their determinations as to whether they thought there would be a united Ireland in ten years, and EM Ireland did not go beyond that. It did not ask whether people wanted a united Ireland; it was literally just a question of "Do you see this happening in ten years?".

May I add to that? It is interesting that Deputy Ó Murchú picked up on that as the very first thing. In EM Ireland's comment on the methodology it refers to an online survey and then panels. It refers to 1,200 participants. Could Ms O'Connell provide a breakdown, in answer to Deputy Ó Murchú's question, as to how that methodology works? It is important as to how it feeds in.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

Absolutely, and I thank the Deputies for their questions. As regards the research we completed in early June, in the Republic of Ireland it was undertaken among research panels operated by Amárach Research and Bounce Insights. In Northern Ireland, the research was conducted among a research panel operated by LucidTalk. All participants were aged 18-plus and the results were weighted to reflect the demographic structure of each jurisdiction. Unfortunately, there is the matter of printing conciseness and brevity, but we can send on the full deck and the background research and methodology from Amárach. It is available on our website.

But we do not have it down to a percentage within that 45% of those who would have designated themselves as unionists or British or whatever else.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

No.

I would not have imagined so. That is just curiosity on my part. It is a very high number, considering that it is only a generalised conversation that is happening. Of course, I would like to see that 24% be higher, but I am sure a significant number of people in the South just said to themselves that ten years is a short period and we are dealing with X, Y and Z. That is why the Government has to do the preparatory work in order that we can have a real conversation about all this. I have no doubt that all those percentages will increase. The 45% tells us that we are starting from a reasonable point in respect of the North and that a considerable number of people have moved on. While there are legacy issues, there is the pain of the past, unionists are still unionists and so on, we are probably all coming from a different place from that we were in 30 years ago. That is all positive.

As regards the EU moving in the right direction, that can depend on when the call is made. If EM Ireland had done this poll directly after the Ukrainian crisis, it would have found two things: worries but also probably an element of cohesiveness. If it had taken the poll when the troika was here, I would hate to see the percentage it would have got. If it had taken it following the Covid pandemic, it would have got another result. That is why, from a southern perspective in particular, it was seen that there were benefits to working on a European basis from the point of view of healthcare, even without confidence in the scheme. I am not asking questions at this stage; I am just pontificating. I have a tendency to do that.

I would think that the united Ireland question from here on in probably needs a couple more questions with it, and there probably needs to be a greater level of digging down. It may be possible to get that sort of demographic kickback, including as to what people's views are, what they want to see and even whether or not they want to see it. EM Ireland could always ask the question, "If you think this is possible, do you think there might be a point in doing some element of due diligence and having a plan?"

On EM Ireland's disinformation piece, we have seen organised and disorganised disinformation. It is a matter of the Facebook algorithm and the idea that hate, antagonism and negativity will sell. The social media companies have to be taken to task. Europe has provided some mechanisms in that regard, such as the Digital Services Act. What does EM Ireland intend to do with its research project? The point of it is making people aware of it. It is about putting it at the heart of decision-makers at a state level and then at a European level in making sure we have the regulation and whatever is necessary. I do not know how EM Ireland will ever deal with X, which has replaced Twitter, because that is a different kettle of fish altogether, but these are weapons that have been used, as I said, by state and semi-state actors and, on some level, vulnerable people who have notions that are not necessarily particularly sane. That is the nicest way I can put that.

I will throw that out to the witnesses. It is a very positive piece of work across the board. We can all make guesses as to why people choose particular issues.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

I thank Deputy Ó Murchú for those excellent questions and comments. He is absolutely correct. His questions highlight the challenges of polling. I do not have to tell members of this committee that a poll is but a snapshot in time. Interestingly, when we polled on the security and defence question in the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 59% of people in Ireland said that Ireland should be part of the EU security and defence co-operation.

As regards the questions, we were really pleased this year that we were able-----

This is the only time I will interrupt. It would probably be different this week on the basis of what is going on in Gaza. Ms O'Connell is exactly right that a poll is a snapshot in time.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

Absolutely, and we saw that when we were brainstorming on the health strategy and the Covid vaccine. That had not even entered our lexicon in terms of including it in the poll. It highlights just how fast-paced and evolving the geopolitical nature of the world we are living in is.

As regards the questions on a united Ireland, we are trying to keep it factual. As the Deputy will know and appreciate, the challenges of delving deeper into that are constricted by what we are limited to in terms of the poll. If the Deputy had any suggestions for questions for 2024, we are always open to getting great ideas for inclusion, so-----

People would be delighted if I were setting the questions-----

We will let you do that another day, Deputy Ó Murchú. I call Deputy Troy. I am conscious of our time.

I would give the answers as well.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

We will get to the Deputy with one of the opinion poll focus groups.

That is tempting to Deputy Ó Murchú. I call Deputy Troy. Then I will call Senator Martin.

I have very few questions per se. The programme of work European Movement Ireland has undertaken is very good and very informative of the views out there. Some are very heartening regarding attitudes across Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to the EU moving in the right direction. Everything seems positive. One area that struck me was where people get their information on EU issues. It is probably positive that the vast majority get information from traditional media because there is editorial oversight of the views. It goes back to the point our Chairman made about reports of the bedbug infestation in France, where they came from and how social media can totally distort the factual position in any area. Earlier, a representative of the Commission was at the committee and we spoke about the regulation of social media in the Digital Services Act coming into place. I hope it will eradicate untruths and misinformation from the digital world. What role does European Movement Ireland believe the digital world plays in informing people's views when replying to questionnaires or polls? We all say they are only a snapshot in any given time when they go against us; when they go for us, we see a trend emerging. Unfortunately, it is more latterly; my colleague to the left sees a trend emerging and we talk about a snapshot in a moment of time. Regarding polls online versus polls done in person, will Ms O'Connell comment on the influence of online - the content is not verified - and the impact that is having? With the algorithms being used, the more misinformation you look at, the more you will be fed.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

The Deputy hit on the kernel of a huge number of the challenges we all face in getting the balance and hitting the sweet spot between communicating in an informed and factual way and encouraging people to inform and participate in democratic processes with the necessary knowledge and toolkits. Of course, so much now is on social media. For an organisation like ours, which prides itself on its communication engagements, it is important to engage with people and our audiences in the platforms they use. Young people in particular are on TikTok, which is an important platform in that regard. We are doing a huge amount of work online but are ensuring that it is factual, verified and fact-based, which is a big part of the work in the disinformation project we are doing.

Deputy Ó Murchú asked what we are trying to achieve with this research project. It is important to put it at the heart of decision-makers and parliamentarians. We are taking great care, prudence and caution. We would be delighted to come back to the committee again to talk about the findings as we evolve in the development of the project.

Social media has an important role to play in how people access information on the EU. The reverse side is that there are strong elements of misinformation and disinformation risk in that area. If we are alert and mindful of it and work with trusted, verifiable sources and actors in a responsible manner, that is a strong approach.

We also saw in the findings about European issues that there is obviously a role for social media but if you look at the findings on Ireland, the "I do not usually look for information on the EU" option was at 14%. That is something that we in European Movement Ireland of course want to work on. NGOs have a role to play as well. As the Deputy said, there were very high responses on traditional media.

There is important work to be done as we face into the European Parliament elections in 2024. We are mindful of that and we want to see an increase in voter turnout and participation. The last time, around Ireland, the voter turnout percentage was not where we would like to see it, as an organisation that wants people to participate in the democratic process. The European Parliament elections are an important part of that. I thank the Deputy. We are never going to get everything right in communications and engagement but that reinforces the importance of constantly doing it and not taking our foot off the pedal.

I commend European Movement Ireland on the excellent work. It is quite fascinating and enlightening. In respect of polling in Northern Ireland, in years gone by, for example, before the Good Friday Agreement, it was reported by many that polling was notoriously unreliable due to personal security issues, perhaps. With this online version, I imagine European Movement Ireland is satisfied that it is much more reliable in a more modern Northern Ireland - there is peace. Amárach Research or any other polling company are only as good as the terms of reference in the questions asked. Sometimes, in polling, for example, for chat shows or snapshot current affair programmes, there is an over-simplistic, rhetorical and loaded question. That does not appear to be the case; some of the questions are extremely open-minded, "Yes" or "No". The respondents are not nudged either to an unconscious bias or whatever. I commend European Movement Ireland on the open-minded nature of the questions. They have greater credibility as a result.

My colleague on this committee, Deputy Troy, said that certain results are heartening. I concur with him in that respect. There is another dimension of these results on which I would like to get Ms O'Connell's view. Are they hardening? I looked at pages six and seven; one question was, "Since Brexit, do you think Northern Ireland in overall terms is better or worse off?" There was 66% in that response. Unfortunately, we cannot drill down into that figure to look at the disposition of the respondents and whether they are inclined to vote unionist or republican. It does not give us that information, I think, based on a previous question. That seems to be a hardening position. On the next page, the question is, "Do you think Northern Ireland should have representation as MEPs?" That was a thumping 74%, larger than the numbers in the North who voted to remain. Is something at play?

Does European Movement Ireland see in its expert analysis that positions are strongly consolidating in that regard? People can look at it more calmly in a more calm, honest environment with less flag-waving and some home truths seem to be coming through. Those are my observations. I thank European Movement Ireland for its latest work. It is very important. I hope it does more in the future.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

I may ask my colleague, Dr. O’Neill, to comment. As a Belfast man, he can speak about some of the Northern Ireland issues. I thank the Senator. On the open-mindedness of the questions, it is hugely important to us for authenticity and integrity and to allow people to give their opinions without directing them. We pride ourselves on that.

European Movement Ireland has achieved that. Well done.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

I thank the Senator. It is always nice to know. It is our guiding principle because we do not try to lead people in any way. I will hand over to Dr. O'Neill after I comment on the polling methodology. I cannot speak for any of the polling companies; we commission and engage with independent polling but the methodology seems to have evolved from telephone polling samples to online panels. If the committee invited the polling companies in, they would be able to give far greater analysis and information. That seems to be the direction of travel.

This is the first time we have ever done it in the North, so we do not have anything to compare it with. When we first started doing this in 2013, we were only able to cover Ireland. In terms of comprehensiveness and the number of questions, we have been able to do more this year, which has been welcome. We are grateful for the support we receive that enables us to do that. Dr. O'Neill might give some of his unique Northern Ireland perspectives.

Dr. Matthew O'Neill

I thank the committee for inviting me. It is a privilege to be here. On the Northern Ireland poll, we worked with LucidTalk in partnership with Amárach Research. They are seen as the gold standard for polling in Northern Ireland. They have done polls for the Belfast Telegraph and Queen's University Belfast. We followed their lead on that as they are the experts. I will turn to the question of unionist-loyalist versus nationalist-republican in those demographic breakdowns. Northern Ireland is changing to the point where, in all honesty, they would not give an accurate description. I believe Northern Ireland is now a nation of minorities. We have a rising middle ground. I do not want to give any insights that would be wrong at this point because I think it is still a shifting and emerging landscape. I believe that under studied middle ground is where the confidence is to say we would like more concrete representation at the European level. They are not scared to voice concerns about the political vacuum that has been left.

I will begin by thanking the witnesses for this interesting body of work. I ask them to supply the methodology section to the committee. I know they have said it is available, but it is at the heart of a lot of what we asked about today. A lot of the information has already been commented on, and it is interesting. I will draw out one point, which is whether they think Northern Ireland should have representatives who would sit as MEPs in the European Parliament. I will be honest and say I think that is a wrong question. The European Movement Ireland is asking something that it knows is not legally possible. If you are not a member of the European Union, you cannot have MEPs in the Parliament. I understand that people desire to see Northern Ireland in the European Union, as we all would. However, in terms of poll methodology, the witnesses must know when posing the question that they are asking people to express an opinion one way or another on something that is not possible. They are certainly not spelling out that it is not possible until some point in the future the United Kingdom rejoins the European Union, or Northern Ireland rejoins as part of a united Ireland, whichever comes sooner. I think the united Ireland will come sooner than the UK rejoining. I heard Alistair Campbell say he does not think it will happen before 2040 or something like that. Anyway, that would be the one thing.

I am also interested to know if the European Movement Ireland will do a cross-sectional viewpoint on involvement in European defence and the question of a united Ireland within the EU. Is there a section asking about attitudes to neutrality in that situation? Is it something that would have to change, and what are the views in Northern Ireland on that? It is obviously now part of a country, which is an integral part of a defence system. That might be an interesting one. The witnesses asked if there were any questions. Those are my comments, but it is an excellent body of work.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

I respect and take on board the Chair's comments. I will ask Dr. O'Neill to jump in as he was integral to devising some of the questions. I also thank the Chair for the great suggestions on neutrality. As members of this committee will appreciate, the challenge we have with the poll is that we started off in 2013 with six questions. Now we are up at 13 or 14, both North and South. It is definitely one we are growing and I take on board the neutrality aspect. It is certainly one we can look at in 2024. We try to refresh it, while having some constants and staple questions every year, to try to get that balance right.

Dr. Matthew O'Neill

I will come in on the question of MEPs. The reason we went with that language was that Northern Ireland of course had a history of MEPs. We thought there was more of an understanding of that, rather than asking about observer status. We thought that would not have been a clear communication towards what observer status actually is. It depends on different third countries that would engage with that. We thought because of a sort of muscle memory of what it was like to have three MEPs, it would be an easier question to ask. There was a much more honest connection. That was our rational thought.

Ms Noelle O'Connell

We are of trying to focus on, and have an eye towards the elections to the European Parliament in 2024. We tried to cover, as best we can, the different institutions and the EU's work agenda as well.

I thank the witnesses for their contribution today, and for attending the committee. I thank them again for presenting their excellent European Movement Ireland EU Poll 2023. We look forward to seeing next year's too, when it comes around.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.57 a.m. sine die.
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