Joint Committee on European Union Affairs díospóireacht

Belgian Presidency of the Council of the European Union: Ambassador of Belgium to Ireland

An Cathaoirleach

I am delighted to welcome to our first meeting of the year the Belgian ambassador to Ireland, H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge. She is joined by her colleague, Mr. Julien Thonar. The ambassador is here to discuss Belgium's priorities for the EU Presidency. We wish Belgium the best of luck with its Presidency and look forward to hearing its priorities.

Before we begin our discussion, I will read the usual note on housekeeping matters. All witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with that direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I also remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex to participate in public meetings. I cannot permit a member to participate where he or she is not adhering to this requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave. I ask members, if they are participating, to confirm they are within the grounds of the Leinster House complex.

With that normal piece of housekeeping done and dusted, we can start our meeting proper. I call the ambassador to make her opening statement.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

I thank the Chair. Good morning to the distinguished Senators, TDs and dear friends. As ambassador of Belgium, it is an honour to present before the committee the priorities my country will champion during its Presidency of the Council of the European Union. I thank the committee for giving me this opportunity. From the outset, I wish members a very healthy, happy, sparkling and, especially, peaceful 2024. I thank the past Spanish Presidency for its hard work and the many successes it achieved.

As members know, we Belgians have the EU in our DNA. As one of its founding fathers, Belgium epitomises what the EU is all about: diversity and dynamism. Welcoming so many European institutions, my country’s capital, Brussels, is the beating heart of European decision-making. We were there from the start. We even held the first ever Presidency of the Council in 1958 and we have just started our 13th. With our experience comes enthusiasm and responsibility but, above all, humility. The Presidency is an honest broker that helps to determine what is feasible and where compromises are possible and, trust me, Belgium knows about compromises. If you think European institutions are complicated, just try the Belgian ones. This Presidency comes at a moment when the European Union stands at a crossroads in dealing with the consequences of Russian illegal aggression in Ukraine, the pandemic, the energy crisis, disinformation, extreme climate events, and a renewed conflict in the Middle East. As the European Union, we have a responsibility to deliver to our citizens, partners and allies. Belgium is determined to make its Presidency a collective success for Belgium, for Europe, for our citizens and for the EU's place in the world.

As the last Presidency of the current European Commission's term of office, we will be operating in a special context and pursuing a twofold objective. First, we want to finalise as much of the legislative work as possible. Second, we will do our utmost to contribute to laying the foundations for the future of Europe and its institutions. "Protect, strengthen, prepare" will be our motto during these six months. "Protect" means protecting our people, ensuring the security and well-being of our citizens, protecting our borders, strengthening our social and health agenda, and preserving Europe’s unity in protecting and supporting Ukraine. "Strengthen" means strengthening our economy. We need to enhance the EU’s competitiveness on the world stage and at the same time deliver on the green and digital agenda and just transition. Finally, we need to prepare for the upcoming expansions of the EU and for future challenges.

Protect, strengthen, prepare concisely and powerfully encapsulates the six key themes of this 13th mandate. The first priority is defending the rule of law, democracy and unity. Defending these principles will be an essential element in the work of our Presidency. As such, we are looking to improve the efficiency and sustainability of existing instruments, such as the annual rule of law dialogue, the Article 7 procedure and the conditionality mechanism, but also to work on new ones, such as the creation of an EU ethics body and a defence of democracy package. Enlarging our Union must make us all stronger. The Belgian Presidency is, therefore, committed to supporting candidate countries in their efforts to join our Union. At the same time, it will be crucial to prepare the Union’s policies, resources, and decision-making structures in view of future accessions.

The second priority is strengthening our competitiveness. We want our businesses to remain innovative and resilient, to be competitive on the international stage, and to operate fairly in the Internal Market. A coherent, predictable and simplified regulatory framework is therefore key. The Belgian Presidency will work to strengthen the EU's Internal Market and industrial future while focusing specifically on SMEs and the reduction of unnecessary administrative burdens; ensuring a level playing field, including through the implementation of agreed and enforced state aid rules; maintaining the drive towards a strong, resilient and inclusive green and digital transition; and discussing the future challenges of the EU Internal Market, which will be presented in the reports by Mr. Letta, Mr. Draghi and Commissioner Breton. We will continue to work to complete the capital markets union and the energy union. Particular attention will be given to the net-zero industry Act as well as to the modernised rules on economic governance.

The third priority is pursuing a green and just transition. To address the triple crisis of climate change, biodiversity loss and pollution, the Belgian Presidency underscores the importance of decisive and holistic action. Geopolitical and extreme climate events have highlighted the need for an accelerated and inclusive energy transition. As such, the Presidency will strive to enhance the Union’s circular economy. It will work towards an inclusive and just energy transition and focus on the development of renewable and low-carbon energy sources and carriers. We are committed to finalising important legislative files from the Fit for 55 package, such as the CO2 standards for heavy duty vehicles, the air quality directive, and the packaging waste directive.

The fourth priority is reinforcing our social and health agenda. Building on the European pillar of social rights, the Belgian Presidency aims to equip the EU with an ambitious social agenda to foster a European society that is more inclusive, gender equal and fair for all. We will therefore organise, together with the European Commission, a social partner summit in Brussels in March. The Presidency will seek to strengthen social dialogue at all levels and the social dimension of the European semester. It will also promote fair labour mobility, mental health at work and access to sustainable social protection. We will also advocate for increased political action to guarantee access to decent and affordable housing for all. Furthermore, the Presidency wants to make the health union stronger, which is a topic that has become more important since the pandemic.

Particular attention will be given to the EU’s crisis preparedness, the security of medicines supply and a strategy to boost the its health and care workforce

The fifth priority is all about protecting people and borders. The Presidency aims to address all of the remaining legislative files associated with the new European pact on migration and asylum. The pact will reinforce trust between member states in a spirit of responsibility and solidarity, bring legal clarity to people arriving in the EU, and ensure EU citizens of the humane and effective management of migration in line with our values and international law. The Presidency will work to strengthen the external dimension of migration and asylum, especially by working closely with our African partners in the framework of a mutually beneficial partnership, again in full respect of international law.

The Presidency will pay particular attention to the fight against organised crime, preventing and tackling terrorism and violent extremism, and bolster the EU’s resilience to crises and to new and hybrid challenges. Safeguarding our citizens also necessitates discussions on the future of European security and defence, moving towards a more integrated Union approach. The focus will be on strengthening the European defence technological and industrial base, including by exploring the possibility of developing a European defence industry strategy.

Last but not least, the sixth priority is all about promoting a global Europe. To adapt to the new geopolitical reality, the Presidency will vigorously pursue the efforts made by the EU to strengthen its resilience and autonomy and defend its interests and values. This includes steadfast support to Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression, as well as in its reconstruction and economic recovery, for as long as it takes. We will keep closely following the situation in the Middle East, with specific concern regarding harm to civilians on both sides, while emphasising the need to respect international humanitarian law, respond to immediate humanitarian needs, and revive the political process towards a negotiated peace.

The Belgian Presidency will also follow up on the joint communication on a strengthened partnership with Africa, which is expected in the second half of our term. As regards trade policy, we will work to strengthen the rules-based multilateral trading system and we will focus on the full and effective implementation of EU trade agreements, including those with New Zealand and Chile. The overall objective is to increase the EU’s open strategic autonomy and economic security. We will also continue to implement infrastructure projects under global gateway, and strengthen the team Europe approach in the international partnerships of the EU and its member states.

To conclude, I will go back to basics. To prepare this speech, I have looked back at the origins of our Union. I recommend re-reading the preamble to the Treaty of Rome to anyone who questions the legitimacy of Europe or wants to reduce it to a soulless bureaucracy. In this text, there is no mention of the word "governments" but the word "peoples" appears three times. It is an economic treaty and yet we find the words "freedom" and "peace". Above all, it contains the words that perhaps best sum up the European project, "an ideal". With its ambitious programme, Belgium is determined to continue the quest for this ideal, which in many ways has become a reality and is much admired by the rest of the world. As our Prime Minister, Alexander De Croo, reminded us yesterday in his presentation of our priorities to the European Parliament:

... the expectations of over 440 million citizens are high. They are looking for certainty and a perspective and for that certainty and that perspective, they are looking at the EU. It is up to us to respond to those very legitimate expectations ...

Delivery will be our goal. Thank you so much.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank the ambassador very much. I hand over to my colleagues, I want to acknowledge the very comprehensive programme she has outlined. As I was listening to the presentation, I reminded myself that this is a six-month Presidency. It is amazing the amount that the ambassador covered. I know there are a number of areas that members will want to ask about and engage on. The first member to indicate was Deputy Howlin.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I welcome the ambassador and thank her for outlining a very comprehensive, far-reaching and ambitious six-month programme. I want to focus on three areas. I wish Belgium well in its six-month Presidency. We always have great expectations of a Belgian Presidency because they seem to understand Europe in a way that few others do.

The first issue Ms Van Vlierberge highlighted in the Presidency programme is defending the rule of law, democracy and unity. It is an issue that we have discussed more than any other in the context of the future of Europe, particularly the erosion of democracy, media rights, protest rights, academic freedom and judicial rights within the EU. It seems that some member states can act with impunity in relation to these matters, without consequence. Ms Van Vlierberge has said that it is Belgium's priority is to reinforce media freedom and pluralism and I am interested to hear what specifically she has in mind and how the Presidency will go about that. I am mindful that yesterday Mr. Viktor Orbán and the Slovak Prime Minister, Mr. Robert Fico, met. Among the declarations they made afterwards was a determination to rework EU policy on Ukraine, for example. Connected to that are the comments by the European Commission President, Ms von der Leyen, that the €50 billion package for Ukraine that was blocked at the summit in December would to ahead, even without the support of Hungary. I ask Ms Van Vlierberge to indicate, if she can, how that might be achieved.

My second question relates to energy. Ireland, as an island, is particularly vulnerable obviously. We do not have any direct gas interconnector with any EU country now. Our gas interconnector is with the United Kingdom so we are at the very end of a distribution line. We became even more vulnerable in the immediate aftermath of the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation. The ambassador said that the integrated European energy network is an important objective. How would that impact the island nations within the EU? Is it intended that integration would include island nations such as Ireland?

I could ask many questions but my third and final one relates to the issue of migration and asylum, which most of us are aware will become a very significant issue in the European election campaign -that is already underway in many instances - between now and June. Some of us are fearful of the rhetoric that might emerge during the course of this debate. Specifically, I ask the ambassador to lay out the remaining legislative files in this area. Is it feasible that they will all be concluded in advance of the end of the mandate of this current European Parliament? In particular, if I may, I want to ask about Africa, in which I have had an interest for a long time. Ms Van Vlierberge made reference to working closely with the EU's African partners. My view on this, having followed political relations between Europe and Africa very closely for a very long time, is that Europe has not given Africa the focus it merits and deserves, as the soon-to-be the most populous continent and our nearest neighbour. I just wanted to make the point that we really need to strengthen greatly our interaction, particularly at a parliamentary level, with African nations. Some countries, including Belgium, obviously have fraught relations with some African countries because of their history. The ambassador is probably aware that the Chinese Prime Minister is in Ireland today. The strengthening of the position of both China and Russia in Africa should be a spur to Europe to greatly strengthen and enhance our co-operation and bilateral arrangements, not only with Africa as a continent through the Pan-African Parliament, but also with individual African countries.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

Those are very interesting questions that go straight to the heart of what Europe is about. The Deputy asked about the rule of law and democracy. That is one of our top priorities because it is a cornerstone of what our Union is about. It is about the respect of those values. The Deputy pointed out that it is not only about, for instance, expecting and asking candidate countries in the framework of the Copenhagen criteria to implement all the legislation in respect of the rule of law. It is also important that once a country becomes a member of the European Union, we continue to respect those fundamentals.

As the committee knows, I referred to the annual rule of law dialogue, which is expected to happen in June. We will take that seriously, as Belgium always has done. We will continue the Article 7 procedure. The Deputy referred to some member states and will know that some member states are the subject of that procedure. It is still definitely on the agenda. The conditionality mechanism is still there. Yesterday in the European Parliament, a proposal to unfreeze Erasmus funding for Hungary was blocked. I would be less pessimistic. I think the European Union has the instruments and they are implemented. Of course, there are some tendencies but budgets are frozen, procedures are implemented and we will definitely continue to do that. There is also the new defence of democracy package that the Commission presented in December. We will try to go as far as possible.

The Deputy referred to it as an ambitious programme. We are working in a very specific environment, with the upcoming European Parliament elections. We will only have three and a half months to get as many files as possible through the machinery because by halfway through April, while the European Union will not stop working, negotiations and dialogues between the Council and the Parliament will end because MEPs will start to campaign. We have, therefore, a small timeframe but we will do our utmost. We are only in the second week of our presidency and a lot has been done in the meantime.

Related to this package, the Deputy also referred to the funding of Ukraine and the Ukraine facility. It was indeed blocked in December by the European Council when a member state vetoed it. We will have a new European Council on 1 February and it looks quite good and interesting. The President of the Commission referred to the possibility of adapting the review of the multi-annual financial framework, MFF, with 26 of the member states. Of course, our top priority is to do that with the 27 member states as it looks now. Our ambassadors in Brussels are discussing the issue. Hungary had the idea of agreeing to the €50 billion that Ukraine needs desperately. On a yearly basis, it is a no-go. It is not a good idea. The idea that is now floating is to insert a kind of emergency brake, as was done with the funding in the framework for NextGenerationEU. I think we will get there with 27 member states. That is the information I hear from our colleagues who are negotiating in Brussels on a daily basis.

Of course, there is still a long way to go until 1 February. It will be of the utmost importance for the future of the European Union that the decision is taken by the 27 member states. It is not only a decision around the review of the MFF. It is not only about Ukraine. It is also about more money for migration, more money for the western Balkans and more money for funding to promote the development of new technologies. It is very important that we get this done by the 27 member states. With regard to energy and transition, it is of course crucial for competitiveness, as the Deputy referred to and as I said. We need to remain an economic powerhouse on the international stage. Of course, we have the European Green Deal and the legislation that comes with it. It is not always easy. With the geopolitical situation, it is of the utmost importance that we become less dependent on other powers for our energy. The development of an internal energy market will be the future of what Europe is about. That energy market will be inclusive and will envelop all the member states. Ireland, of course, has one interconnector with the UK. In 2026, it will have a new interconnector with France.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

That is for electricity.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

Yes. There are also discussions with Belgium for an electricity interconnector. Ireland has considerable potential for the generation of electricity. I do not have to tell the committee about the potential for offshore energy on the east and west coasts. I do not know what it will look like but it goes without saying that an internal energy market should be an inclusive project and that island states, such as Ireland and Malta, will be part of it. It is of the utmost importance that we invest in that.

The US Inflation Reduction Act was a super-bazooka. The US invested in companies, and we should do the same. In doing so, we need to keep the balance between being and remaining competitive and retaining a level playing field within the internal market. For smaller countries such as Belgium and Ireland, it is not always possible to compete with the big European countries that can put a lot of money into their companies. We really must find a balance internal within the European Union and also ensure we strike a balance with our partners. There is a dichotomy between autonomy, on the one hand, and continuing to be a trading country that attaches a lot of importance to trade for small open economies such as those of our two countries. We will have to balance a lot of specific and important topics but that is of the utmost importance for the future of our Continent, as I said. We have become a very geopolitical union. I have been working in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs for 25 years. I was posted twice to our permanent representative at the European Union. I really see this as the most geopolitical Commission we have ever had.

In this time of the year and in this specific moment, it is important to be that. We also need that geopolitical approach to energy, as the Deputy referred to. We need it in other files, such as migration and energy.

Touching on the question of migration, we will do our utmost to get all those files agreed upon before mid-April. We are working hard. I think it will be manageable because all the institutions want that change in our migration policy. It has to stay a humane policy but it also has to be a clearer policy not only for the people applying but also our citizens. The solidarity package of it is important. It is broad; the Parliament and Council are all aiming for a clearer migration policy while keeping it very humane; that applies internally and externally.

The Deputy referred to our relations with Africa, as I did. Africa is very important for Belgium. The African Continent is one of our top priorities within our foreign affairs policy. Migration is not only about, let us say, strengthening the borders and the capacities of the member states in the south and the front-line member states. It is not about the solidarity between member states, rather it is also and perhaps most importantly about reaching out to the countries of origin, working there and implementing and creating new partnerships to bolster their economies and invest in education. We have to deal with the countries and the problems that are the basis of why so many people want to come to Europe. We have to deal with the problems in the countries themselves. We already invest much in Africa but perhaps, as I said, we should do it in another mindset, that is, one of our mutually beneficial partnerships and with respect for each other. The Deputy referred to the colonial past. It is a completely different way of approaching those countries and those countries of origin. We need to deal with the problems that form the basis but also deal with transit countries, as Europe is doing with Turkey and Tunisia. I am quite hopeful we will manage it. It was an amazing success that the Spanish Presidency reached that agreement and now it is up to Belgium, together with the Parliament, to get these files agreed upon before mid-April.

This is also very important with the upcoming European Parliament elections. As the Deputy knows, in Belgium and I think in every country, migration is one of the topics of the election. Therefore, it is also important to show our citizens that we take their concerns into account. We are doing it but we cannot do it alone; it is the same with everything. We have to do it globally and together with all European Union member states.

I apologise for the long answer, but there were not three questions but many.

Deputy Seán Haughey

I thank the ambassador for her comprehensive presentation on the priorities for the Belgian Presidency. It Is clear that the Presidency is in good hands given Belgium’s traditions and its role in establishing the European Union.

I suspect foreign policy issues will dominate the Presidency, particularly the war in Ukraine, as the ambassador mentioned, and the Israel-Palestine conflict. It seems it is hard to get agreement among the Heads of State and Government in respect of Israel and Palestine. Belgium will have its work cut out for it there. I agree with what the ambassador said on the need to talk about a peace process, bring about a two-state solution and get a ceasefire in place as soon as possible.

I suspect Hungary will be the bold child again for the next six months. There is talk of the Council President running for the European Parliament elections and, should he become an MEP, Viktor Orbán will take over chairing the Council meetings and so forth. Presumably that will be more in respect of the next Presidency. I am not sure how that works. Dealing with Hungary will be difficult and, as the ambassador mentioned, getting aid to Ukraine and so forth. There are many other issues as well, such as getting agreement on all aspects of the EU asylum and migration pact.

The ambassador answered many of my questions so far, so the only real question I have is on the theme of reinforcing our social and health agenda. In particular, the ambassador mentioned that the Presidency will convene a social partner summit in association with the Commission. I am interested to learn more about that. I agree that the theme of a social Europe is important. Who is likely to attend that summit? Is it Heads of State and Government? Is it the social partners from throughout the EU? I am interested in how it will operate. If the ambassador has any further information in that regard, I would appreciate it. I agree with the concept of it anyhow. Hopefully, it will be an inclusive process and will convey to the citizens of Europe that Europe is a social Europe as well as an economic Europe. Any information the ambassador has on that would be greatly appreciated.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

I thank the Deputy for wishing us good luck with all the difficult files on the agenda. The Deputy referred to Hungary. I think it will be difficult but Ireland and Belgium are known for our capability of striking compromises. I thank the Deputy for his trust in what we will be able to reach. Of course, we will need Ireland’s support as well. I am looking forward to getting new Council conclusions with regard to the Middle East, although that will be extremely difficult. Ireland, Malta, Spain and Belgium wrote a letter to the President of the Council in December to ask for a ceasefire. More and more member states within the European Union are looking in that direction. Therefore, I am quite hopeful. We need to get there. As the Deputy said, we need to focus on the day after and the return of the two-state solution political settlement.

With regard to the summit we will organise, it will be together with the Commission, which has the lead in it.

It is the second ever social summit and, as the Deputy said, we need a geopolitical Union that is powerful on the world stage, that is competitive and, in particular, that takes care of its citizens and their social well-being and social rights. The summit will take place on 20 March and is a tripartite summit comprising representatives of governments and the Union. I think it will be at the highest level, although I will have to check that. I will ask for some more information and revert to the Deputy. It is unique becuase it will be only the second time ever that such an event has been held. As he said, Belgium attaches a lot of importance to the role of social dialogue in our society, which is why we want to build on the existing social pillar and make it stronger. That will be one of the aims. I do not know whether we will get a declaration, but I think another aim of the summit will be to make progress on the further co-ordination of all the social security systems within the European Union. I will revert to the Deputy with practical information on who will be invited and the agenda.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

It is good to see our guests again. Theirs was about as comprehensive a report as we have got and the ambassador's answers have added to it.

To follow on from an issue Deputy Haughey raised, one of the major geopolitical issues facing the world at the moment is the absolute crisis in Gaza. The latest figure I have seen for the number of dead Palestinians is 24,448, 70% of whom were women and children. I do not know how anyone can stand over those sorts of statistics and talk about defence. I recognise that, as Ms Van Vlierberge said, Belgium, alongside Ireland, Malta and Spain, signed a letter urging the European Council to seek a ceasefire, which is a fair place to be. She mentioned the need to maintain international humanitarian law, and while it is hard to see how we will get out of this crisis, we need to get to the point of a negotiated peace because we cannot go back to what existed previously, and I have fears about what this Israeli regime can do.

Whether it is Belgium in its position with the Council Presidency or as a country alongside like-minded states, there has to be action. We have to look at matters related to the EU-Israel Association Agreement and those humanitarian clauses, and certain states are going to have to be brave in recognising the state of Palestine. It is as much about Israel being held to account. I welcome what the South Africans have done and I would like to see other countries support them in that regard, whether we are talking about the ICC or the ICJ. Some of this is also about a message going to the US such that it cannot give its unbridled support - as much as its language may have changed, it is unbridled support - and major mistakes were made at a European Commission level, by Ursula von der Leyen and others, although that goes without saying.

I accept Ms Van Vlierberge cannot get into detailed answers about what can happen, but there is an onus on Belgium, Ireland and others to do at least something to hold Israel to account, with a message going even to the Americans. In Yemen, there is now the possibility of even further escalation and I am not sure where this will stop. Obviously, for the Palestinian people, it is just day-to-day tragedy and death. We can call it what we want and some of us will use the term "genocide" while others will call it "ethnic cleansing", but I think we would all agree it is an absolute slaughter.

It is hard to talk about accession without the context of the rule of law. There has been enough discussion of the antics of Viktor Orbán and others. How does Ms Van Vlierberge envisage this EU ethics body and the defence of democracy package? What exactly will it look like? The European Union needs a means of dealing with those who are engaging in behaviour that is not conducive to democracy and people's rights. It also creates a fear and difficulty for other countries wishing to come in, so it is something we have to get right. Deputy Howlin dealt at length with the European pact on migration and asylum. We need some sort of sensible solution. As much as we need to tackle the issues as they exist in parts of the developing world and so on, whether that is climate change or the wars and conflicts we are talking about, we need a system in play. At times, however, I do not think we even have a system in play for people seeking asylum who, if there were a better roadmap for them, might apply for work permits, and in many European countries, including our own, we need them. It is very hard to get it all right, not least in the middle of multiple crises, but throughout Europe, including in Ireland, we have to do better, and everybody will be better off on that basis.

We may differ on the following matter. When Ms Van Vlierberge talked about discussions regarding the technological and industrial military base and the European defence industry, she mentioned a greater level of integration in respect of defence and security. Where does she foresee that moving to? Obviously, Ireland has a certain position on neutrality and alignment and that has served us well, but I would be interested in hearing the ambassador's views on the issue.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

With regard to the Middle East, I was referring to the position we share, which we made clear in December. Now, of course, we have the Presidency, as the Deputy mentioned, which is a different role, so we have to be an honest broker. That said, we still have our position, but we will try to get an agreement and consensus around the table. As I was saying, that will be very difficult because many of the positions on the conflict are based on the very emotional historical positions of countries. The Deputy referred to the position of Ireland, but there are also the positions of Austria and Germany and history is playing a very important role in this. Nevertheless, we saw what happened at the UN General Assembly when more and more countries voted in favour of our position, so we are seeing slow but incremental support not only for humanitarian corridors, which is a first demand, but also for a ceasefire.

Of course, there are some powerful member states within the Security Council and within the European Union. As I said, the longer the conflict takes and the longer the military operation of Israel continues, more and more people will see that it has to stop and that a solution has to be found. Diplomacy is required in order for people to start talking to each other. It is important to think about what the European Union can do in that regard.

Of course, our position is that there should be a two-state solution. We should continue to help strengthen the Palestinian Authority. We are already helping them financially, and I think we should continue and do that more. To take a stronger engagement with regard to the upcoming political process, Europe has to play a role together with our Arab partners and other Arab countries. Within the European Union, the external action service preparing a roadmap for the day after. I have the Council conclusions with me. They are dated 27 October. Since that date, the Council has not agreed on a wording. I really think this should be revisited. As holders of the Presidency, we will do our utmost. You know our position. I know that your Government is taking some important initiatives as well with regard to that file.

There was a question about industrial policy. It is Commissioner Breton who wants to get a new fund to be able to invest in that part of European industries and companies. We see what is happening now in Ukraine. Of course, I know the position of your country. We all, respectfully, are dealing with that matter. I was referring to the money they need, namely, the Ukrainian facility of €50 billion, but they do not only need money. Whenever we meet with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, they are asking for military support. You may like it or not, but they need it. Russia gets support from North Korea and Iran. Many countries are giving that military support on a bilateral basis, for instance, Germany. The UK recently struck a bilateral agreement. I think also within the European Union we have the funds in the European Peace Facility.

The world in which we live has changed, like it or not. The position with regard to the European Union has become maybe a bit more hostile. There has been a paradigm shift. We may like it or not, but it is there. Belgium thinks it is time that the European Union, as a geopolitical entity, is not only talking and defending its principles but that sometimes it also has to show its muscle. Reference was made to the Red Sea. That is a tricky and difficult one. No one wants an escalation of the war into a regional conflict. On the other hand, a lot of our exports go through the Red Sea - I think about 40% of European exports to Asia. If your vessels are attacked it is difficult. Within the European Union, the possibility of broadening Operation AGENOR, which comes under European Maritime Awareness in the Strait of Hormuz, EMASoH, is being discussed. This would not involve launching attacks but for forces to be there to defend European vessels that are operating in that part of the world.

This year will present specific challenges. We have elections, Ireland has elections but also there will be elections in the US. The security paradigm can shift a lot in that regard also. The Belgian position is that we should invest in having a more powerful European Union, which includes investing in that part of our industry relating to defence and security.

An Cathaoirleach

I will ask a question if nobody else wants to come back in. There is very little to say because it has been a very comprehensive discussion. I want to pick up on the ambassador's final point. Europe faces a very big choice in terms of its defence industry. The potential for an outcome in the US presidential election that would, for the first time since the end of the Second World War, leave Europe pretty much reliant on its own defences gives rise to major questions. That will play out over the very immediate term rather than the longer term. There will be an immediate impact on the ability to support Ukraine. While individual member states may take particular views on neutrality or their own positions in terms of military neutrality, there is no question that the collective European position needs to have an ability to have a defence industry. Otherwise, Europe will not be a player in the discussions on what is going to happen into the future.

I congratulate the ambassador and her country on the comprehensive programme they are looking to pursue. The timeline is incredibly short. I think she recognises that. The Presidency that runs into an election cycle is all about trying to achieve what can be achieved in a shorter period. From listening to the ambassador, the reassurance I take is that the focus is there. The far side of the election cycle will be very interesting for Europe. The European Parliament as we know it might be completely reshaped in terms of the membership. It falls to Belgium's Presidency to try to achieve a lot of things that we would like to see happen. I wish Belgium the best of luck.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

Thank you so much. Indeed, you were referring to the huge amount of work. I did not mention the figure yet but there are still 140 legislative files on the agenda. Luckily, 60 of them are already in the phase of trilogue, that is, the negotiations between Parliament and Council, but there are still 80 other files. We will definitely do our utmost and will be working really hard.

The Chair's remark is very interesting. When our Prime Minister presented the programme to the European Parliament yesterday, he also referred to the upcoming elections in North America.

He said that if 2024 brings us the policy of America first again, Europe will be, more than ever, on its own, as the Deputy referred to. We are not afraid of that. We should not be afraid of this perspective. We should embrace it. As I was saying, it gives us the opportunity to put Europe on a more solid foundation and to be stronger, more sovereign and more self-reliant. We do not have to be afraid of it. Of course it will also be a paradigm shift and we should take that into account but it is also an opportunity for Europe to become a stronger geopolitical union. This is not only with regard to foreign policy but also with regard to energy and migration and the new Commission approach that was launched five years ago. Yes, I think it is a challenge, but for Europe it will also be an opportunity. It will allow us to see how we can strengthen our co-operation on very specific topics such as defence and security. Only two weeks ago Commissioner Breton referred to the talks he had last time in Davos with President Trump when he said that the United States was going to quit NATO. If this is the perspective, we really will be on our own. We can already see what is happening with Ukraine. For the moment the US Congress cannot agree on financing. As I said, whether we like it or not, the world has changed. In one way or another we should deal with it and we should take advantage to make Europe bolder, stronger and more resilient.

Deputy Robert Troy

I thank the Cathaoirleach and I apologise for coming in so late to the meeting. The traffic was much heavier coming in this morning than I had anticipated. I thank Her Excellency for presenting the Belgian priorities to the committee.

I will not rehash what was spoken about earlier on. One of the priorities is pursuing a green and just transition. One of the areas I have an interest in is that of non-financial reporting. A file that was going back a number of presidencies ago was a priority in relation to ensuring that large corporations - the same as with their financial returns - make a return on an annual basis on what they are doing to achieve emissions targets. It seems to have slid down the priority ladder over the last while. Perhaps Her Excellency will be able to update us on where it is at currently. If she cannot, she might come back to us on that point.

Secondly, and probably more importantly, I would like to ask about the support the EU is giving to bring about a resolution to the awful ongoing unrest in Gaza. I tried to listen the committee hearing on the way here in the car but the Teams connection would not work. Perhaps this has been already outlined but perhaps Her Excellency could summarise and identify what Belgium's Presidency will do to ensure we try to bring about a resolution and a ceasefire in Gaza.

An Cathaoirleach

I am going to echo Deputy Troy's words on this.. Unfortunately, we had almost half an hour of discussion on Gaza just before Her Excellency's arrival. I ask her to make it a summary in response rather than repeating everything we have just gone through and, obviously, to answer the Deputy's first question as well.

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

We wrote a letter to the President of the European Council in December. Now in our new role with the Presidency we will work as an honest broker. We think that we need to get a new position because I was referring to the Council conclusions from October. We will do our utmost, but it will not be easy, given the very specific positions of many countries. It is important for Europe to get that unity. We need this if we want to go on to the next steps in the political process on the day after the war. We have a lot of options there. Europe should become more strongly involved in looking for a political solution based on a two-state solution. We will do our utmost but it is a slow process. We were one of only four member states seeking an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. That is changing within the Council. I am a bit hopeful, but if Europe wants to stay relevant in this regard we really need to find consensus within the member states.

Regarding the Deputy's first question, I mentioned that one of our top priorities is to strengthen our competitiveness. It is about making Europe very competitive on the world stage, but it is also about strengthening our internal market and helping our SMEs to reduce unnecessary administrative burdens. We also need to help them in the very difficult process of coping with the green transition. I referred to the Fit for 55 package. It is from the perspective of changing the view of global climate change and is of huge importance. On the other hand, our companies have to remain able to survive and to operate fairly in a Internal Market, which has a level playing field. This topic is on the agenda. I was told, but I will double-check and come back to the committee, that we will aim for a general approach on the topic within the Council. As I was saying, it is true that the transitions are of the utmost importance but they should also be fair, particularly for SMEs. We will come back to the committee on this point.

Deputy Marian Harkin

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

As I said earlier, they always say that the best of the European Union is our Internal Market. I believe the best of the European Union and the cornerstone is our rule of law, our democracy and our values. The members referred to candidate countries and enlargement, and I referred to that. We are very much in favour of enlargement because it is a geostrategic investment not only in peace and security but also in stability and well-being. While we are so very in favour of enlargement, it is enlargement that is based on merits. This means the Copenhagen criteria should be respected and should be implemented. A very important part of the key is all about democracy and rule of law. It is there. Belgium is also really looking forward, as are other EU countries, and I am sure Ireland will join that position, to the rule of law dialogue that takes place every year and now that we are expecting it for June. It is a rule of law dialogue of all the member states so we are very much in favour of broadening it and also involving the candidate countries. If that happens, it will be even more important to show them that when they are preparing and when they are transforming governance and their legislation to respond to and be compliant with the Copenhagen criteria, they are also already part of that peer pressure and peer review that the rule of law dialogue is all about. We really are in favour of getting the candidate countries involved in that process.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank the ambassador. We will now conclude because at this point we have had contributions from everybody. I thank the ambassador and her colleague for coming in today. It has been a very strong engagement and we have covered a lot of ground. I wish you the best in your Presidency in the coming three, four, five or six months and that it is an active and productive one. As Europe we need that and we need Belgium's Presidency to be a success. We wish you the very best of luck with it.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.28 a.m. until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 31 January 2024.

Joint Committee on European Union Affairs díospóireacht - Wednesday, 17 Jan 2024

Belgian Presidency of the Council of the European Union: Ambassador of Belgium to Ireland

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

H.E. Ms Karen Van Vlierberge

Joint Committee on European Union Affairs díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Jan 2024