On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Tom Kitt, and his officials to the meeting. I thank the Minister of State for agreeing to come before the committee at such short notice. He has been invited here today to discuss the growing food crisis in Africa, particularly in the Horn of Africa and southern Africa, and the steps Ireland is taking to help avert it. I invite him to begin his statement which will be followed by a question and answer session.
African Food Crisis: Ministerial Presentation.
I am delighted to have the opportunity to address the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on the subject of the food crises in the Horn of Africa and southern Africa. I acknowledge the presence of my predecessor, Deputy O'Donnell, who played a significant role as Minister of State with responsibility for overseas development aid
As we look forward to Christmas, the figures concerning famine emanating from Africa are stark. They serve as a damning indictment of our collective failure to address the needs of the most vulnerable at the beginning of a new millennium. It is estimated that at least 28 million people will be affected by the current food shortages in the Horn of Africa and southern Africa. In Africa generally there are at least 38 million at risk and the figures seem to be increasing daily. This is an unfolding disaster which is unprecedented in its scale and extent.
There are many reasons for the severity of the disaster, but the shadow of the HIV-AIDS pandemic is cast long over the famine which has devastated the continent and undermined the coping strategies of individual families, communities and entire countries. It has made the task of responding to food security issues immensely more difficult and complex. Shifting weather patterns, civil strife and matters relating to governance and economic policy have also had roles to play in the critical scenario we now face.
We became aware of the growing food shortages in the Horn of Africa in the middle of the year when poor rains led to widespread livestock deaths and harvest failure across much of the region. A joint United Nations and Ethiopian Government assessment report was published on 13 December. It found that the effects of drought exacerbated by chronic food insecurity threatened the lives of nearly 11.3 million Ethiopians. More than 1.4 million metric tonnes of food aid is required in 2003 to avert famine in Ethiopia. In Eritrea the joint Government-United Nations appeal estimates that 2.3 million Eritreans, almost two thirds of the population, will need food assistance in 2003. Sudan and Somalia continue to suffer from chronic food shortages, which is exacerbated by conflict and general insecurity. In Ethiopia high levels of malnutrition among children are now manifesting themselves. Some stress induced migration has occurred. Desperate coping mechanisms, such as the selling off of personal belongings to buy food, are also occurring where food assistance is not available.
The food situation in southern Africa remains critical. Some 14 million remain at risk of starvation in Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Swaziland, Zambia and Zimbabwe. The World Food Programme is feeding an additional 1.8 million people in Angola. There are indications that the situation will deteriorate early in the new year as coping strategies are pushed to the absolute limit when the traditional season of scarcity reaches its height. It has been reported that many are already resorting to eating immature green maize and seeds.
I witnessed the unfolding southern African tragedy when I visited Malawi and Zambia in August this year. More recently I sent a senior official to Zimbabwe to speak to missionaries and representatives of NGOs working on the ground in order to get a more accurate picture of the prevailing situation there. Our missions in Zambia, Lesotho and Mozambique are closely monitoring food shortages in those countries. The prognosis is not good. The WFP-FAO estimates a four million tonne cereal shortfall, of which about one million tonnes will be required for 14 million people as food aid.
The question arises as to what Ireland Aid is doing. It responds in two ways to humanitarian crises such as the famines in Africa. In the short-term it is imperative to save lives in the most effective way possible through direct assistance and using every opportunity to raise the issue internationally to ensure the donor community adopts timely and co-ordinated humanitarian action. In the long-term it is absolutely necessary to tackle the structural reasons that underlie food insecurity.
We have mounted a rapid and significant response to the problems in the Horn of Africa. On 18 November I invited a number of NGOs to discuss the immediate needs. Following this meeting I announced a special €2 million food assistance package for the people of Ethiopia which has brought Government assistance on emergency and humanitarian relief for the Horn of Africa to over €7 million this year. Funding has been allocated to key international agencies such as the UN World Food Programme, as well as Irish and international NGOs, and covers Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia and Sudan. Three weeks ago I sent a mission to Ethiopia to co-ordinate the Government's humanitarian operation with other donors, the United Nations and the NGO community. I will travel to Ethiopia in January to see the situation at first hand and discuss the impact of the famine with the United Nations, NGOs, missionaries and the Ethiopian authorities. I will examine further assistance in the light of my discussions in Ethiopia.
In relation to southern Africa, we have delivered €9 million in emergency assistance in 2002. During my visit to the region in August I witnessed at first hand the life saving work of missionaries and NGO development workers as they sought to assist the most vulnerable. I am delighted that we are able to fund and assist their vital humanitarian work.
Our humanitarian support is complemented by political action. I have been working closely with our partners in the European Union and the United Nations to develop strategies on how immediate food needs can best be met at national and regional level. The scale of the problem is so large and the situation has deteriorated so rapidly that we must have a major and co-ordinated response. Words can become devalued by constant repetition, but this famine is unprecedented. Our response must be unprecedented also.
I heard the committee discussing the Iraqi situation earlier. Personally, I am very uncomfortable, as a human being and the person now responsible for Ireland's overseas development aid programme, with the sense of prioritisation emerging from major and strategic decision-makers on the world stage. One must question the rationality, morality and justification of setting aside billions of US dollars in preparation for a war with Iraq while almost 14 million innocent lives are under immediate threat in Africa.
Hear, hear. Well said.
Clearly, all our efforts should be focused on facilitating and encouraging a peaceful resolution of the undoubtedly serious problems in Iraq. I firmly believe, however, that in the weeks and months ahead the focus of the world's attention and resources must be brought to bear on Africa and its people who are totally dependent on our response. I am convinced that if we all work together with a sense of urgency and unity, millions of lives can and will be saved. I am making this reference to Iraq simply to underline, as starkly as I possibly can, the depths of the crisis we now face.
I discussed the food crises in Africa with my British counterpart, Clare Short, at the General Affairs and External Relations Council on 19 November. The issue also topped the agenda in my discussions with the deputy executive director of the World Food Programme on 5 December. The alleviation of poverty in Africa was one of the central themes addressed by Ireland at the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg last September when the Taoiseach highlighted the food security crises threatening Africa and the need for an urgent international response.
If we are to break the cyclical nature of famine and starvation in Africa, the underlying structural problems affecting food production must be addressed. The reasons for what sometimes seem the never ending food crises in Africa are obviously complex. There are climatic reasons for sudden drops in food production: too little or too much rain or changing patterns of precipitation can have deleterious effects on crop and food production. However, there are also structural reasons at the root of systemic food shortages. These include, inter alia, weak markets, poor transport, weak agricultural extension, traditional land tenure systems, and poor resource management leading to land degradation. These crises must also be perceived from a wider angle which examines the political and economic failures contributing to this catastrophe. Good governance leads to sound development and economic policies which, in turn, reduce poverty and can, slowly but surely, reduce exposure to the calamitous famines we are now witnessing.
The HIV-AIDS pandemic has also played a major role in the severity of the current food crisis in Africa. The pandemic has hugely undermined the ability of individuals, families, communities and countries to cope with and survive food insecurity. The absence of sufficient food may also expose individuals to coping mechanisms which expose them and their families to the risk of HIV infection.
Addressing famine and starvation in Africa will require a multi-disciplined approach with agriculture and rural development leading the way. It will require significantly increased resources from the donor community and equal commitments from African governments to build the enabling environments which will facilitate agricultural growth while protecting the poor and most vulnerable. I am happy to note that a renewed commitment to agriculture has emerged from the Johannesburg summit. Ireland Aid is renewing its focus on agriculture and rural development and also funding vital poverty oriented agricultural research through the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research, CGIAR.
Ireland Aid has strong development partnerships with six countries in sub-Saharan Africa. Through these partnerships Ireland Aid fully engages with the Governments and donors on the basis of poverty reduction strategies. The poverty reduction strategy plans, PRSPs, demonstrate how each country prioritises resources and policies with the objective of reducing poverty. This comprehensive and African owned approach by donors, Governments and civil societies stands the best chance of reversing the downward spiral of economic and social indicators in sub-Saharan Africa.
One of the key goals of the Millennium Development Summit is to reduce by half the number of hungry people in the world by 2015. The current food crisis across the African continent has seriously undermined our chances of attaining this goal, yet there is still much optimism about the capacity of the planet to produce sufficient food to meet our needs. Appropriate agricultural policies and research have major roles to play in this regard. Markets are also important while the effects of globalisation and trade on food security merit more debate and discussion. I have established a task force to examine ways in which Ireland Aid can stimulate greater productivity in agriculture through private sector mechanisms.
Ireland has done and will continue to do its utmost to deliver effective assistance to those most in need in famine affected Africa. We will also use every occasion to highlight the issue internationally. Our humanitarian assistance is designed to seamlessly link into recovery and eventually longer term support. By this process we best assist efforts to address the fundamental causes of food insecurity, while at the same time meeting the basic needs of the poorest of the poor.
I thank the Minister of State. Yesterday we had an in-depth discussion with representatives of Concern who echoed many of the points covered by the Minister of State. They are approaching the issues in a highly professional manner. I note that €7 million has been committed to the Horn of Africa and €9 million to southern Africa, which is a major increase. Since 18 November, a further €2 million has been allocated to food assistance packages. Will this be maintained next year? I suggest that before the Minster of State responds members should raise issues or ask questions.
I thank the Minister of State for his statement. At yesterday's meeting, a delegation from Concern provided a good briefing. That organisation is active on the ground and, as usual, is working in partnership with Ireland Aid. I welcome Ireland Aid's involvement in this slowly unfolding but predictable crisis, which is unprecedented in scale.
Will the Minister of State assure the committee that he has sufficient flexibility in terms of the allocation of funding? If he requires the support of the committee in this regard I am sure it will be forthcoming. Ireland has a long-term programme of assistance with Ethiopia, for which it has a large budget. In an emergency like this and with hunger on the scale predicted, the Minister of State should have maximum flexibility in terms of moving moneys from long-term non-essential programmes to life-saving humanitarian assistance of the kind that will be needed over the coming months.
I fully support the Minister of State's point on the need to accord Africa global and political prioritisation. When we attended the United Nations two weeks ago for Security Council briefings, we all sensed that the organisation was deeply conflicted. In one part of the building people were planning for the humanitarian impact arising from a possible attack on Iraq while in another part people were gearing up for an assault on Iraq, regardless of whether it will be sanctioned by the Security Council. In the meantime, the Africa desks have been running out of money and are out of the news.
Given Ireland's solidarity with the African people in their diversity and poverty, we should keep the world's focus on Africa over the coming weeks despite the intentions of others in terms of political priority. In view of this, I hope the Minister of State will use his office and our position on the Security Council to highlight the need for global solidarity with the people of Africa as they face this crisis.
I welcome the Minister of State's establishment of a task force to consider the long-term structural problem of food and security in Africa. Ethiopia and Eritrea face many similar problems, including conflict. Ethiopia has a large population of 66 million and faces chronic poverty, bad land management and a range of other issues. We must attempt to deal with the long-term structural problems of food insecurity, especially as it affects Ethiopia. At yesterday's meeting, a delegation from Concern indicated that the level of fear in Ethiopia is appalling because people there have a direct memory of previous famines.
I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. The increase in overseas development aid in recent years is welcome. However, I am concerned that, despite the commitment of successive Governments, we do not appear to be committed to reaching the spending target of 0.7% of GDP in this area. If we are to carry any moral authority within the European Union or elsewhere, we must set this as a target. Perhaps it is time to legislate for it because it is easy for the Department of Finance to renege on commitments in difficult times. Given this country's history of famine, that should not be allowed.
At yesterday's meeting, a delegation from Concern pointed out the difficulties in delivering aid - for example, food aid - to countries, including Ethiopia, in the Horn of Africa. For too long we have remained quiet on the role that could be played by the European Union's security and defence forces, specifically the Rapid Reaction Force. We have tried to assuage public opinion in this country by telling people our involvement does not mean the end of neutrality and does not impinge on our traditional policy. We should be more proactive by asking what we want from the Rapid Reaction Force.
Like member states, the European Union has an aid budget. However, at times it is difficult to get aid to countries and from there to the regions. In view of this, the Minister of State should explore the use of the Rapid Reaction Force in delivering aid. He should also seek a more active involvement by the European Union, not only in making aid available but in ensuring that there is a means for distributing it.
The Minister of State's statement is helpful and welcome. I agree with those who suggest that over the next few months the situation in the Horn of Africa should be given priority attention by all Members involved in this committee. I suggest we keep the Horn of Africa on our agenda over the next several meetings to hear reports.
The Minister of State referred to the gap between commitments made and their delivery. At yesterday's meeting, the delegation from Concern pointed out that the three months following next March will be an acute period. In this regard it is necessary to address the recurring delays and malfunctions in the distribution of aid, many of which occur at European Union level.
The situation for major coffee producers in central Ethiopia is reaching a new level of crisis, mainly because the price of coffee is only 34% of what it was five years ago. This is due to a number of factors, including the emergence of Vietnam as a major coffee producer. Ethiopia had high primary school participation rates, but that is now collapsing because of the decline in income for those dependent on a single crop.
The Minister of State referred to the situation in Malawi. In 1999 Malawi paid €88 million in debt repayments. The country's total budgetary allocation to health and education amounts to €54 million. None of the countries affected by the famine are spending less than 15% of gross domestic product on debt service. I find it unacceptable that we will isolate the aid issue from discussion on debt. I do not want to go on about it, but if the 20 lowest countries, in the last revision under HIPC, had their debt wiped out, the lives of 21 million children would have been saved. This is an appropriate time to address the issue of the writing off of the debt of the countries concerned.
It is also appropriate to look at the issue of trade. The European Union took some interesting initiatives at the Doha preliminary agenda meeting. The crisis of people dependent on primary commodities such as coffee and cotton is a trade issue which should be dealt with.
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt's, enthusiasm for development aid and his contribution, during which he referred to poverty reduction strategies. The poverty reduction strategies which have been prepared and are in place are based on projected export earnings for crops such as coffee, which have collapsed. They are also structured in a particular way. Where they have been examined within countries such as Uganda, for example, the structures have been found seriously deficient in terms of participation of people who wanted to design what might be a path to development. This nonsense must stop. At the initial meeting of this committee, I suggested that whenever we form a development committee it must be able to deal with issues of debt or we really will not be dealing with it at all. It has to be able to deal with issues of trade.
We will leave this meeting with a great concern for wanting to do something urgently about the famine and sustain our interest, but we would really need to invite officials of the Department of Finance to come before us in order that we can ask why Irish debt policy, as a matter of Government policy, has not been transferred to the IMF. Why are we saying one thing in respect of the aid side while not being consistent with it in what we are doing in terms of providing any kind of accelerated debt relief? Does it say something about us that we have billions of euro of subsidies in the area of agricultural and we are excluding these poor countries in Africa? If one says that one is concerned in a general way, one must show this to be the case.
The cost of the war in Iraq will be about €90 billion. Those involved seem to have been able to come up with the figure and make logistical preparations within weeks. At the same time, the commitments from Johannesburg are hopelessly short.
The World Food Programme was mentioned. The list of countries which have been told about the prospective famine in Africa is as long as one's arm. There is nothing like a meeting of commitments, not to speak of their delivery. These issues are linked. One of the roles of a small country is that it can draw attention to the current position if issues of this nature are neglected. I regard it as urgent that we do so. It is immoral to be extracting debt payments from certain countries.
I recall looking at the figures and I am aware that there are three countries where the proportion of gross domestic product spent on debt service - even after 1999's advanced HIPC - was of the order of 23%, that is, one in four products of the economy must still go on debt service. I could find no country for which the debt service figure was less than 14%. How can we extract debt in the name of adjusting economies and preparing poverty reduction strategies and then - with a great deal of guff - require people to provide good governance? In a short period I could show how much corruption has been sown by western Governments who bought contracts in Africa. Of course there is a problem of corruption, but it is not one-sided and it is not local. We should consider the issue in that general way.
Deputy Higgins will be aware that later this morning we will be discussing debt and trade in our programme of work. It is one of the priorities, but I understand that he wants to keep it in context.
I will be seeking to amend the title of the development sub-committee to be a subcommittee on development aid and trade.
We will discuss that later.
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, for his attendance and also for his contribution. We are lucky to have a Minister of State who is so clearly personally motivated and has feelings about these matters. The committee is also privileged to have Deputy O'Donnell as a member. She brings with her a remarkable record in this area.
I want to make some comments arising from the speech and from what some of my colleagues have said. I strongly support Deputy Higgins in what he said about the structural inequity of the economic system. It is absolutely appropriate that we address this, but we are in a weak position until we arrive at the situation outlined by Deputy Mitchell. If he is prepared to put a proposal to the committee that we recommend to the Oireachtas that legislation be passed to bring us up to this target of 0.7%, then I - I am sure like other Members - would be happy to second it. That would give us this moral status to do this.
When they are seeking cuts, it is always easy to hit an area like this, but the temptation to do so really must be resisted. It would put us in a position where we could talk with a degree of authority on these matters in the international forum. If one wanted to be cynical about it, it would be cheap at the price to have this kind of moral kudos attaching to the name of Ireland. I would be happy to support that.
I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, departed from his printed script to introduce the matter of Iraq and he probably sensed the support that he got from all parties around this table. It is an obscenity. It puts into perspective the proposal that members of this committee should visit to Iraq.
I note that there is a certain coyness of language which is inevitable in the diplomatic context when one talks about difficulties such as shifting weather patterns, civil strife and matters relating to governance and economic policy. Indeed there are such problems in Zimbabwe, for example, which is one of the countries concerned. It is a potentially very rich agricultural area, which is simply being destroyed by a lunatic Government. That is inexcusable, but it should not provide us with an excuse to reduce aid because there is the plight of human beings to consider.
Although it is a small detail, the entire matter was put into context when the Minister of State referred to people selling personal items and eating their seed for next year in order to stay alive temporarily. It is devastating and appalling to imagine what it would be like to sell off our last few personal possessions in order to get enough to eat, but there is also a responsibility on leaders like Mugabe in that regard.
The Minister of State also referred to AIDS. The same applies in that area. Thabo Mbeki in South Africa suggested there is no relationship between the Human Immunodeficiency Viris and AIDS. This is disastrous and it undercuts the efforts of people in the field. I know from talking to them that they are frequently asked, "Why should we take these precautions when our President has said there is no relationship? Why should we take this medicine?". What is important is that the medicine works. It is dangerous that some irresponsible journalist - I refer here to Paddy O'Gorman in the Sunday Independent - comes out and reiterates the same statement and questions whether there is any relationship between the spread of this virus and sexual activity. It is highly dangerous that this should happen.
I was interested in what Deputy Mitchell said about food delivery systems from the Rapid Reaction Force. I have reservations about the Rapid Reaction Force, but if that is the kind of circumstances for which it was to be used I would find it difficult to support my reservations.
On the issue of AIDS, there is also a delivery problem but there are lateral methods of thinking which can help to resolve this. I have dealt with a remarkable young female doctor from St. James's Hospital who goes frequently to Africa. One of the issues at which they have been looking is the use of the multinational corporations, some of which I deeply deplore, but I would certainly use Shell, Coca Cola or any company to deliver treatment. They have systems whereby they can get treatment material not only to their own employees through health programmes but to areas where it is difficult to do so. They have the transport and infrastructure and so on.
The Minister of State said, "One of the key goals of the Millennium Development Summit is to reduce by half the number of hungry people in the world by 2015." I hope its keeps fine for him, because that is not realistic in the present circumstances unless the question of world population is addressed. There is a disaster in the making with the world population expected to double over the next 30 to 40 years. It has doubled since I did my intermediate certificate and it will double again. What are we going to do about it?
The Bush administration in the US under the pressure of bible belt theologians reduced its allocation to the United Nations development fund by $30 million to $40 million. I congratulate the Minister for Foreign Affairs on the strong response he provided to me and others when we were approached by groups in Galway who wanted us to support the Bush administration to reduce this funding. This is absolute madness. The population issue must be addressed. Will we talk about the immensely increased number of people who will be hungry in 2015 if we do nothing about it?
I remind the Senator he should not name people outside the committee who are not present to defend themselves. That is the practice.
I am deputising for Deputy Gregory. I congratulate the Minister of State and wish him well in his new position. I agree with him that it is a disaster that 28 million people are affected by food shortages while 38 million are at risk and that is not acceptable. However, I wish him to raise three simple questions at EU and UN level, if possible, particularly with the US and Great Britain. How can the EU, the US and Great Britain spend millions on arms, deploy armies in deserts and erect buildings such as hospitals and provide electricity and water within a matter of weeks, yet they cannot deliver adequate food and water to starving people throughout the world? This question must constantly be raised with these countries.
I welcome the Minister of State's comments on Iraq but it is important that he repeats them outside this forum at the UN and the EU along with the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The obscenity of starting a war with Iraq is not on, nor is it acceptable to the Irish people.
I refer to the money spent on famine relief. Is the Minister of State satisfied the money is well spent and is filtered down to the people who need it most? Some people have reservations that grant-aid for poor people disappears in the system and does not reach those at the bottom.
I agree with Deputy Mitchell for once, even though I disagreed strongly with him regarding neutrality during the Nice treaty debate, that there should not be a debate when a sensible idea is put forward, that the Rapid Reaction Force or another army could be used to provide humanÍitarian aid. Armies should be used more regularly for humanitarian missions, particularly given the skills they possess. When they move into an area, they can move rapidly and provide relief. I support the notion of using armies for humanitarian missions rather than to become involved in conflicts or wars. Will the Minister of State push that issue at the EU and the UN?
I welcome the extra funding for APSO, which is positive. Senator Norris referred to the appalling, corrupt governments in Africa. NGOs have made the case for more funding for governments there for some time. John O'Shea of GOAL, in particular, made a strong case for more funding for NGOs. What is the Minister of State's view?
He referred a number of times to missionaries and NGOs in his contributions. Many missionaries are taken for granted. Are there proposals to increase funding for them as well as NGOs?
I join others in welcoming the Minister of State. I am new to the interweaving of various foreign affairs issues, despite having been in Cabinet for many years. I am extremely interested in the views put forward by various people. The Minister of State's contribution was explicit and for those of us who are new to foreign affairs and development aid, he has clearly outlined where the money is going, what he hopes is done with it, his meetings and his thoughts on other matters. He stated that words can become devalued by constant repetition but this famine is unprecedented. That sentence is simple and clear and did not require the use of awful adjectives.
I refer to Deputy O'Donnell's comment about the two arms of the UN, where one is heavily engaged in planning a war with Iraq while the other is concerned with matters such as this. I have been thinking about the US build up to a war in Iraq over recent months, regardless of what emerges from the tomes provided by the inspectors who visited the country. It is as if their work does not matter. The US is saying it is an exercise, the result of which is not of great interest to anybody, and that it will to into Iraq. There is ambiguity in how we treat the matter and I do not know why that is so. It is as if we have such historic ties and more recent trading ties with the US that it is a case of "hush, hush, don't step on their toes" while at the same time we are infused with rage regarding how it is treating the Iraq issue.
Whenever one views RTE, the BBC or Sky there is an implicit acceptance that we are moving towards a war and I do not know why we do not plainly say we do not want a war.
Hear, hear.
Ireland is a small country and it does not have influence no matter how wonderful this committee is as it comprises members with significant influence backed up by excellent civil servants in the Department of Foreign Affairs. Why can we not be more public about our abhorrence of war? There will be significant hunger in African countries whether we like it but there will be unprecedented destruction in Iraq.
I have great respect for Deputy O'Donnell's long service to developing countries. We will be faced with those two huge disasters. I often wonder why people cannot say publicly that we do not want this war. We are a tiny country and know that the United States does not mind what we say or do about Iraq. It would do no harm to say publicly that we do not want this war.
The second issue is financial aid. The Minister of State and I have discussed this informally on several occasions and I know how hugely committed he is, as was his predecessor, Deputy O'Donnell, to the continuation of the financial aid. However, I know from experience that it is an easy number for Finance to knock and Deputy O'Donnell will remember that. We are heartened when the Taoiseach, Minister of State and everyone else says we have our target towards which we will work. When will we start? When will the increases kick-in? The longer it goes, the harder it will be to catch up. I know the Minister of State obtained a worthwhile increase this year. My point is that the years ahead will telescope quickly and we will be left with having to make a huge increase in financial aid. If at that stage the bad times are still with us, African countries and others will be told to wait. All present are interested in and have some knowledge of the situation, but our basic humanity tells us that we have it good and they have it bad.
I was not present for the early part of the discussion, but in taking up the debate, I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, as everyone else has done. I read his speech which was direct, to the point and informative. I thank him for that.
Some comments have been made about war in Iraq. The committee should not adopt a position at this stage different from that of the United Nations or perceived to be an anti-American stance. We should keep closely in line with the UN policy on Iraq and stick rigidly to it. It is a difficult situation.
Some members may have read Professor Huntington's book, The Clash of Civilisations. Part of his analysis was that, when there is only one superpower in the world and it is one’s enemy, the only way one can level the playing pitch is either through terrorism or through weapons of mass destruction. If a rogue state, to use the current colloquialism, decides to combine the two strategies and becomes involved in terrorism and with weapons of mass destruction, there is a serious threat.
We should wait and see what the UN decides regarding the situation in Iraq. If it has the capacity to develop and deliver nuclear weapons and has accepted the analysis that, on sheer weight of numbers and armaments, it cannot take on a superpower and must do it through terrorism or weapons of mass destruction, there is a crisis. Iraq is not the only state which could present this problem to the world.
Our period on the Security Council has been beneficial. Our officials and Ambassador, Richard Ryan, under the direction of the Minister, have done a very good job and we have punched well above our weight in the UN recently. However, our policy is established and it is in line with the UN's.
If people believe there is no threat from Iraq, then that is fine because there will be no war. On the other hand, if it is established that Iraq is developing nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction and that it intends combining them with the strategy of terrorism, then there is a crisis not only in Iraq and the Middle East but in Europe and the United States as well. Combined with his human rights record, it is clear that Saddam Hussein is not the type of leader anyone in a respectable democracy should support.
While the sentiment in Ireland is anti-violence and we have a long history of neutrality and deploring war, the committee should not at this point rush to judgment, even in the type of consensus emerging. This is a serious issue, especially if the type of analysis which I first read in Huntington's book, The Clash of Civilisations, is applicable, whereby in conflicts between superpowers and weaker states, the latter has recourse to two options: terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. If the two are combined, then that is serious. I suggest that——
It is regarded as one of the worst books on political science ever published.
That depends. I fully agree with something the Deputy said at the previous committee meeting I attended, namely that the Western world needs to be better informed about Islam, Islamic culture and standards and its view of the world. I am open to that, but the Committee on Foreign Affairs, which has already established itself as a serious voice of influence, should on this issue keep in line with UN policy and not——
The non-permanent members of the Security Council have access to only 25% of the report. The other 75% has been excluded by the Americans.
We all know the problems.
How do we decide on 25% of the facts?
We all know the problems. I am saying that, as the Committee on Foreign Affairs, we should not position ourselves to say that all the right is on the Iraqi side and all the wrong on the American side. That is clearly absurd.
Most of the points have been covered but it is important that we are clear on this. I congratulate the Minister of State on the outline of his contribution. It was refreshing to hear what he had to say.
Senator O'Rourke said we are a small nation and not that influential. I disagree with that. I attended the United Nations and met the most influential people there on the Iraqi situation, the Horn of Africa and the different sectors Deputy O'Donnell outlined. In one room people were preparing contingency plans in the event of a war, while in another we listened to people who could not predict whether they would have money next year to deal with certain problems. We have an influence and we should not under estimate it.
What Deputy Noonan said is that perhaps there should be some caution. We are in line with the UN position. I oppose war in Iraq because it is unnecessary, but we must at least give the UN the opportunity to respond to the information it has received from Iraq as part of its investigation there.
It is important that we be focused on this issue. We have spoken about the atrocities and tragedies of the previous century. The tragedy now is Africa and we must keep saying that. We see television pictures of people dying there. We respond and the issue goes off the agenda.
We, as the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, have an important influence. I was very encouraged by the way we were received at the UN and I do not believe it was a public relations exercise. It appreciated the contribution of our people and our Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, at the UN. We must realise that we have an influence and must keep focused on the tragedy facing the African people. It is the number one priority for the committee for the future.
As there is a vote in the House, will the Minister of State be willing to respond in about 15 or 20 minutes?
I would be delighted to do that.
We will suspend for 15 to 20 minutes.
Sitting suspended at 12.10 p.m. and resumed at 12.50 p.m.
All the Senators and Deputies have completed their contributions so I will just make one or two points. We discovered during discussions at the UN that 60% of the people of Iraq are dependent on the oil for food programme. The Minister can also see that members are concerned and angered by the famine in Africa and at the decision of the people in Iraq. We do not want any interference with the oil for food programme in Iraq. Some 60% of the population depends on it and it is crucial to their survival. Interfering with it would cause major problems.
In relation to the contribution of 0.42% of GDP, I note that we are variously quoted as being fifth or sixth in the world in our contributions to the UN. During our visit there we found that they were happy we were progressing and had reached that state. We can consider the points made by Deputy Mitchell when we come to report. The Taoiseach has made it clear that he wants to raise this to 0.7% in the lifetime of this Government. Deputy Mitchell's proposal that we consider the possibility of legislation on that issue is a good one.
I understand the Minister expects to meet the funds by switching from long-term to short-term. Yesterday Concern highlighted the need for long-term development and I know the Minister is conscious of that. We support his pursuit of further funds so that progress can be made on both fronts.
I thank all the Members who have contributed to this debate. There are many members of this committee who have experience at ministerial and other levels and have considerable expertise to bring to our discussions, which I welcome. I will try to respond to each individual's issues. If I leave anything out members should feel free to come back to me.
At the outset, you, Chairman, and Deputy O'Donnell mentioned the need for adequate funding for humanitarian crises for 2003. We will continue to have adequate funding. In our budget there will be a strong element of funding for that area. I have given my officials the flexibility to move funding towards emergencies and I am sure members agree with me in that regard. The Estimate figures for next year indicate that €23 million is available for emergencies and €12 million for rehabilitation. We have already moved money from long-term development to emergencies as mentioned by Deputy O'Donnell. Clearly there are some long-term structural problems and we will continue to focus on the six countries where we have bilateral programmes. We are considering other countries and we will report to the committee on those in due course.
Deputy Gay Mitchell referred to the overseas development aid funding target of 0.7%. I warmly welcome any support from this committee in attaining this target and the committee's constructive comments. I have a similar view to my relationship with NGOs. I see them as part of my constituency as Minister of State. As many members would also do, I fought the battle publicly to get adequate funding for the year ahead and I value the support I got from many people along the way. The budgeted figure for next year is €450 million which represents an increase of €30 million on the current year's budget. This represents 0.41% of GDP. I agree with the Deputy that we must ensure we increase this funding incrementally if we are to achieve the target of 0.7%.
We all agree on the need to bring this debate into the public domain. We are now in the top five or six in the European Union. The increase was not as great as I wanted this year and it needs to rise in the years ahead. As my predecessor will be aware, we are doing a considerable amount to inform the public about this. We will launch a website in the new year showing the work that is done on development and this will be a very important means of communicating what we are doing. We can all be proud of what we are doing in this area.
I do not subscribe to the view that we must choose between our domestic needs and those of international community development. We have certain inadequacies, problems and deficiencies in our health care and educational systems, etc., but those of us who have been to the developing world know the level of need that exists there. I am sure most members of this committee have visited our programme countries and I would be glad to co-operate in arranging for those who have not done so to go there and see the progress of our official programmes abroad. Seeing what is going on is a tremendously uplifting experience.
Deputy Mitchell talked about the delivery of aid and mentioned the EU Rapid Reaction Force. My only experience of army personnel was seeing what members of the Irish Army did in Rwanda. They were working in a civilian capacity helping the people near Goma. I was very impressed with their efficiency, which comes naturally to disciplined army personnel who work in an organised way. That is a good idea and we would be glad to explore that to see at what level we could bring in their expertise.
I discussed the issue of co-ordination with the head of the World Food Programme when I visited Malawi. He said he was reasonably satisfied with the level of co-operation in Malawi. It is dangerous to say that. I know that Clare Short got into some difficulty when she made some reference to that concerning Ethiopia and was misunderstood. She clarified that when I spoke to her recently. We have to work hard on co-ordination between the Government and the NGOs, particularly the World Food Programme. Addressing the level of co-ordination will be a priority during my visit to Ethiopia. In the past I have always tried to involve other European ministers in that type of agenda.
Deputy Higgins talked about the distribution and also mentioned coffee. I am very much aware of this issue. In my address I said we have set up an agriculture task force to see how we can get involved in advice in relation to the private sector and to try to support particular products in the developing world. As many members will know, I have taken a particular interest in the question of trade, given my background as a Minister of State with responsibility for trade and my work at WTO level. I am convinced that along with the debt issue, to which I will refer briefly, trade and development represent a crucial issue when talking about long-term strategies. It is one thing to provide humanitarian short-term assistance - and we will do that - but the real way out of poverty for these countries is through trade. In the World Trade Organisation we did many things, particularly the "everything but arms" initiative which tried to get duty free access for their products into the European market. We need to give them more support in what we call capacity building. They do not have state agencies or trade boards like we do. There is considerable work to be done there and I am already pursuing the agenda that I pursued as Minister of State with responsibility for trade. The specific issue in relation to coffee was addressed at the last General Affairs Council meeting. It is now normal practice that I accompany the Minister for Foreign Affairs to those meetings and I am glad to report that there is a growing sense of urgency at that level with regard to development issues.
The World Bank is another important agency in this regard. I met a representative of that body during my visit to Washington on trade development issues. It has a huge role to play in supporting developing countries and I was quite impressed by what I heard during my visit. On debt cancellation, to which Deputy Higgins referred, we have formally announced a policy in favour of total debt cancellation. In relation to the HIPIC initiative, we have a principled position and, while it may be said that it is easy for us to do so as we have not issued any loans to developing countries, the fact is that we have a very strong policy position which we are advocating internationally. That position has been supported by the NGO community in general. Our support for debt cancellation is subject to the provision that funds are not spent on arms but on social welfare related issues, such as dealing with the HIV/AIDS pandemic in Zambia.
We also strongly support the concept of good governance in the context of the debt cancellation policy. We have a good policy position and I would welcome scrutiny of it by this committee.
Has the Department of Finance submitted that policy to the IMF?
Yes. This policy has been developed by the Department of Finance and my Department and is well known internationally.
Is it Government policy?
Yes, it is Government policy and I referred to it during my visit to Washington. The Deputy also referred to economists in the World Bank and I believe he is correct. In the past, they took account of economic factors.
Perhaps more so in the case of the IMF.
Yes. In deciding policy on debt cancellation, they formerly took account of mainly economic factors, but not human factors. I made the point, on the occasion of launching our new policy, that we should also take account of all the human factors. Father Michael Kelly, who is a professor in Zambia University, put this point very well in his recent address to a conference. If I may paraphrase his comments, he asked what price one should put on human factors, such as a child being left without parents as a result of deaths from HIV/AIDS. I fully recognise that those factors are not taken into account as they should be.
I have already dealt with the point raised by Senator Norris in relation to the 0.7%. He also mentioned Zimbabwe. We can only work in Zimbabwe through NGOs, because of the issues of governance, and we will continue to do so. On HIV/AIDS, we have spent €45 million this year in the context of our strategy in relation to Africa, where we are endeavouring to mainstream our policies. I saw, at first hand, how well that is working when I visited Mozambique recently. Others who are active internationally, including the Clinton Foundation and Bono, with whom I have discussed this issue, are anxious to do much more on HIV/AIDS and debt cancellation. There is an opportunity for us to link with international organisations and, perhaps, more powerful countries to add further value to our efforts in the areas of education, treatment, hospice care and helping orphans.
Deputy Finian McGrath referred to the EU and the US spending millions on arms at a time when there is a deficit in the delivery of aid to those in need. We have tried to bring that debate into the World Trade Organisation and believe it was a useful exercise in involving the Americans in that context. It is a key area and was central to the "Everything but arms" initiative which has the right focus on the situation.
With regard to Iraq, my reference to it was in the context of the millions of US dollars which are on stand-by in anticipation of a war. Figures of $90 billion to $100 billion have been mentioned. It puts our debate at this meeting in perspective by comparison with the resources available in that context and the deficiency in resources for the work we are endeavouring to do. I am heartened by the response to my comments in that regard and I believe the members of this joint committee are of the same view. We must focus on the situation in Africa during the coming months.
Deputy Finian McGrath spoke of famine relief funds being well spent. I am confident the expenditure is well focused. We are working with the top class NGOs, including Concern which made a presentation to this committee yesterday. I regard it as a privilege to work with people such as Tom Arnold, GOAL, Trocaire and the many other agencies.
I hesitate to interrupt the Minister of State but I would appreciate if he would give way to allow me to refer to a particular issue which may be a rather delicate matter. I refer to the number of NGOs in this field, perhaps sometimes competing with one another. I am not quite sure of the merits of that situation and I do not wish to take from their work in any way. Has the Minister of State or his Department addressed that issue?
On my reassignment to this portfolio, as I have done during my previous term in this Department, I convened a meeting of the NGO community. There are quite a number of parties involved, in which I must include the missionaries who are an important part of our approach. Funding is allocated on the basis of performance and there is a great deal of transparency in the system. Many people feel a strong attachment to NGOs. I have no concern about the number of NGOs. My officials are very skilled in analysing their worth and their work rate. We frequently speak of the "top three" as being Concern, Trocaire and GOAL but there are also many others, including Christian Aid, World Vision and so on. The list has not changed significantly since my previous involvement in the Department. I have met all of them and we monitor their work closely. When they apply for funding, the smallest NGO has the same chance as the largest. Generally, there is good value for the funds allocated and we will continue to monitor it closely. I am not unduly concerned about the number of NGOs and I see no need for the type of streamlining which might, perhaps, arise in a business or industrial context. They are operating in an area of great need and I regard their work as invaluable.
With regard to the missionaries, to whom Senator Michael Kitt referred, we have established a new, dedicated missionary development fund. The missionaries are currently in a transition stage and this will allow them to have a greater say in the funding allocated to them. More funding for NGOs is also being provided. This year, NGOs received some €60 million and the missionary funding has doubled. The annual grant to each missionary movement, over and above project funding, has been increased from €7,000 to €15,000.
Senator O'Rourke referred to Iraq, on which I have already commented. It is reassuring to have the views of members in that regard. I have also dealt with the budgetary issue to which Senator O'Rourke referred. Deputy Noonan gave his measured assessment of the situation in Iraq and I appreciate his comments. I believe what we are arguing against is the perceived inevitability of war and that is a legitimate position for us to adopt. Deputy Dan Wallace also spoke on similar lines. In relation to Afghanistan, our very useful work there is continuing.
I value this opportunity to share with my colleagues in the Dáil and Seanad. We are determined to try to make a difference. We are a small player but, as Deputy Wallace and others have said, we can make a difference if we not alone do our work efficiently but if we work in tandem with other countries, and especially the European Union. On my appointment, I met Commissioner Nielson to see how the EU could do much more co-ordinated work with regard to Africa. Africa has always been our priority, in particular sub-Saharan Africa. That remains the case and we will do our utmost, not just to work with our agencies, but to mobilise other countries, especially the major powers, to respond to this crisis.
On behalf of the committee, I thank the Minister and his officials for attending the meeting to discuss what is a very important priority issue. The committee has a special interest in this area and will shortly set up a sub-committee on development co-operation. I understand the Minister will visit Africa in the near future and I would welcome the opportunity to meet again when he returns.
With the agreement of members, the committee will now go into private session to discuss the remaining items on the agenda.
The committee went into private session at 13.12 p.m. and adjourned at 1.40 p.m.