Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Jun 2015

Sustainable Development Goals and Targets: Irish Aid

Chairman

The witnesses are welcome before the joint committee. I welcome Mr. Michael Gaffey, director general of Irish Aid, who is accompanied by Ms Dympna Hayes and Mr. Niall Tierney. They are all welcome to today's meeting, which is a follow-up from last week's meeting at which members of Dóchas appeared before the joint committee to discuss their preparations for the Addis Ababa conference. This is also a more general meeting with Irish Aid and is an opportunity for the Irish Aid team to provide a briefing to members both on their activities and on the sustainable development goals and their targets, which are set to shape the development agenda post-2015. As members are aware, an important meeting will be held in Addis Ababa in July, namely, the summit on financing and development. The witnesses are all welcome and members are delighted to have them here.

The format of the meeting is that Mr. Gaffey will make an opening statement, after which we will take questions from members of the joint committee. Before handing over to Mr. Gaffey, I remind members, witnesses and those in the public gallery to ensure their mobile telephones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting, as they cause interference, even in silent mode, with the recording equipment in the committee rooms. In addition, in advance of today's presentation, I wish to remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. However, if they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They also are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. Michael Gaffey

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. We are pleased to accept the joint committee's invitation to meet on the progress in the negotiations on the post-2015 development agenda and on any aspects of the Irish Aid programme and policy they may wish to raise with us. This year has the potential to rank as one of the most critical in global development in generations. Three major interlinked processes are due to conclude in 2015 with the International Conference on Financing for Development in Addis Ababa from 13 to 16 July, the post-2015 sustainable development summit in New York from 25 to 27 September and the climate change conference of the parties in Paris in December, which should agree a legally binding and universal climate agreement.

With success in the negotiations and strong political will to implement the agreements reached, this can mark the start of a clear transformation of our concept of global citizenship and responsibility. This will involve a move from a north-south, donor-recipient model of development and poverty reduction towards a new multi-layered concept of sustainable development based on universal goals, to replace the MDGs, millennium development goals, and a shared responsibility for the planet, its people and its natural resources.

Ireland has been playing a leading international role in the work to design and negotiate a framework to replace the MDGs adopted in 2000. This role arises from the effectiveness of our aid programme and our record as a member of the United Nations. Ireland led the EU’s consideration of the shape of the new agenda during our Presidency of the Council of the European Union in 2013. Ireland co-facilitated the international meeting on the MDGs at the UN in September 2013. We were members of a team, along with Denmark and Norway, in the UN open working group which adopted draft sustainable development goals, SDGs, and targets last year. Ireland was honoured to be appointed, with Kenya, to co-lead the intergovernmental negotiating process at the UN, with the aim of reaching agreement in July for adoption at the September summit. This has involved a major commitment by our ambassador in New York and his team at the UN, colleagues in Dublin and Limerick, and our mission network worldwide.

Throughout the process of the past two years, Ireland’s key priority for the new goals has been to ensure the goals build on progress made over the past 15 years in fighting poverty in all its manifestations under the MDGs. We have focused in particular on the need to galvanise action to end extreme poverty, hunger and under-nutrition by 2030; ensuring a single strong goal on gender equality and the empowerment of women; and the critical role of good governance and the rule of law in building sustainable, prosperous and equitable societies. We have emphasised the need to incorporate human rights in the new framework, reduce inequality and protect the role of civil society. We believe these priorities will be well reflected in the outcome.

The new SDGs will build on and differ from the MDGs in three fundamental ways. First, the SDG agenda is broader and addresses a wider range of issues. Its aim will be the ending of poverty through sustainable development while addressing social, economic and environmental challenges. The scope of the framework will recognise the interlinkages between issues such as climate change, poverty eradication, peace and security and inequalities. Second, the goals have been drafted and negotiated in a radically more inclusive way than the MDGs. They may, therefore, initially seem more unwieldy, but they are comprehensive and address the complexities of development as it is experienced by people and communities, especially by those in the poorest countries. This insight was a priority outcome of Ireland’s Hunger, Nutrition and Climate Justice conference, held during our Presidency in April 2013. The MDGs were drafted by a group of experts working with the former UN Secretary General. The SDGs will be the product of a global consultation, involving millions of people across the world, civil society organisations and intergovernmental negotiations. Third, the post-2015 agenda will be a universal one. All countries will have a role in implementing commitments domestically and internationally, with strong mechanisms at national level to monitor progress and report back.

This issue of monitoring and review remains a difficult and contentious one in the negotiations. The process will be voluntary, but review will be needed at national, regional and global levels. A strong monitoring and review process is a priority for the EU. We have emphasised the need for government progress reports to be complemented by contributions from civil society, academia, local government, the UN system and the private sector. We need to examine also the crucial role that parliaments should play in review processes. These issues are still under strong discussion in the process in New York and Addis Ababa.

Agreement on the financing of the SDGs will be critical to the success of the agenda. The forthcoming conference in Addis Ababa will aim to reach agreement on financing, extending significantly beyond official development assistance, ODA. It will cover the financing of infrastructure and climate policies, domestic resource mobilisation, including taxation and tackling illicit financial flows, the role of the private sector and the need to boost world trade in a fair and equitable manner. Ireland has been working to ensure coherence between the Addis Ababa and New York processes.

ODA will be a vital element, especially for the least developed countries. It will, however, be only part of the picture. To illustrate, total ODA last year amounted to some $135 billion, but UNCTAD, the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, has estimated that global investment requirements for the achievement of the SDGs are of the order of $5 trillion to $7 trillion. The needs of developing countries alone will be between $3.5 trillion and $4.5 trillion annually, mainly for basic infrastructure, food security, climate change, health and education. The challenge in Addis Ababa is to see how the international community can mobilise resources from the billions to the trillions of dollars. If there are some 30 donor countries, including Ireland, and just over 30 low-income countries still dependent on aid, there are some 130 emerging middle-income economies that have achieved higher levels of average prosperity. The central issue in Addis Ababa must be how to unlock finance from different sources, including, but not exclusively, aid to finance sustainable development.

ODA will remain essential for the poorest countries under the new framework, including many African countries and fragile states where Ireland focuses its assistance. The Government, therefore, remains committed to the aid target of 0.7% of gross national income and to making further progress towards it as Ireland’s economic recovery consolidates. It is significant that the meeting of EU development Ministers in Brussels on 26 May was able to reach agreement on a recommitment to reaching the 0.7% target within the timeframe of the post-2015 agenda, as well as directing more assistance to least developed countries, especially the poorest countries in Africa where progress has been slowest on the MDGs. Ireland played a crucial role in brokering agreement at the Council. It is important to note that Ireland is also a world leader in the proportion of our assistance that we provide to the least developed countries and is committed to maintaining this approach.

Our priorities will be well represented in the 17 goals and 69 targets which seem likely to be agreed, with some minor technical adjustments, in September. Implementation will be voluntary but the scale of the ambition and of the summit in New York will aim to generate strong political will to do so. The Government’s development programme, Irish Aid, will continue to focus on the priority areas identified in its policy for sustainable development, One World, One Future, which sets out a whole-of-government approach to development policy.

Many countries, including several of our EU partners, are examining new institutional frameworks at the national level to translate the universal goals and targets into national actions, commitments, responsibilities and accountability which will respect national priorities and circumstances. These would range beyond the traditional development ministry approach in their focus on domestic implementation. Ireland’s engagement in the process has been guided by strong interdepartmental co-ordination, chaired by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. We are now giving consideration to the nature of the institutional framework for national implementation of the SDGs. Through our aid programme, we are committed to providing comprehensive support to governments, parliaments and civil society in our key partner countries to facilitate their implementation of the new development agenda. We will retain our focus on the least developed countries and communities in Africa on the basis of the realistic objective of ending extreme poverty and hunger in the world by 2030.

This year, we face a once-in-a-generation opportunity to fashion and implement a truly transformative agenda with the shared commitment to leave no one behind and ensure no goal will be decried as met until it is met for all. The summit in New York, along with the critical meetings in Addis Ababa in July and Paris in September, are interlinked and co-dependent. They can mark a real shift in the way we interpret our world and our role in it. They must also challenge us all - government, civil society and citizens - to examine and redefine how we live and do business.

My colleagues and I look forward to hearing the views of the committee and to answering any questions from members on the development agenda and programme.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Gaffey for his opening statement.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank Mr. Gaffey for his presentation and welcome his colleagues to the committee. He quite rightly stated that the Addis Ababa outcome needs to be ambitious. The key understanding of that conference will be agreement on how to mobilise the resources necessary to deliver the SDGs. The resolution of the UN General Assembly which established the conference indicated that representation at Addis Ababa would be at the highest political level, including Heads of State and Government, along with foreign affairs and finance Ministers.

I understand from the previous presentation that the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Sean Sherlock, will attend the Addis Ababa conference, but will any of his Government colleagues be attending? Mr. Gaffey referred to the European recommitment to reaching the aid target of 0.7% of gross national income. That is welcome, but will Ireland outlining a roadmap at the Addis Ababa conference on how it intends to achieve that target? Emphasis has been placed on the need to leverage private investment to complement public financing. Is that what Mr. Gaffey means when he refers to unlocking finance from other sources? Is this from State sources or from other countries whose contribution to ODA has been very poor, or is it to be from a combination of State and private sources?

Policy coherence in development was one of the few areas highlighted as needing improvement in Ireland's 2014 OECD peer review. We touched on this when discussing the departmental Estimates at an earlier meeting. How much has Irish Aid engaged with the Department on issues of shared concern such as taxation, financial flows and debt, which affect human rights and development goals? How much discussion has taken place between both Departments on these very important issues? Mr. Gaffey also referred to the One World, One Future strategy which was published in May 2013. This committed to a biennial report on Ireland's progress on policy development which would be prepared specifically for this committee for consideration. Are there proposals to bring such a report to this committee before the autumn to reach the deadline for the biennial report as set out in the strategy?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the guests for coming before the committee and I compliment Irish Aid on the work it has done and continues to do, particularly over the past few years during the recession. With the support of Government, Irish Aid has been particularly effective in ensuring the maximum possible was delivered in the most efficient and effective way to those for whom it was intended. That is hugely important, given the climate of recession in which we have had to work, and it will remain important in the future.

Climate change will become a greater issue as time proceeds. Two issues emerge from that. One is the extent to which Irish Aid can explain to the people in the donor countries the implications of climate change, recognising that there will be some sceptics on the subject. There is a need to ensure that climate change scepticism is addressed in a way that conveys the message without confrontation while alerting everybody to the need to ensure we plan our programmes with this in mind into the future. Otherwise, it might be seen as a weapon to inhibit development in donor countries and it could be seen as a threat.

It is important that the Government and Irish Aid continue to support and encourage other donor countries to make the maximum effort at all times. During the past number of years it was not always popular to adopt this stance in most donor countries, and it was not easy to explain that particular countries required aid to a far greater extent than anybody could explain without a visit to those countries to illustrate it.

Aid for trade is becoming increasingly important. While everybody is endeavouring to ensure the maximum amount of aid goes to those for whom it is intended - in the case of Irish Aid, this is without any condition other than to meet the needs of those who require it - this is not the case in all countries, and there are an increasing number who are using the situation to ensure their aid is responded to with trade. This is, in fact, becoming a precondition in some cases, particularly for some of the larger countries and economies. This should be borne in mind and brought to the attention of those concerned, and it should be recognised that countries such as Ireland make direct contributions without any conditions other than to ensure the aid is spent in the most effective way.

Deputy Eric Byrne

It is always a pleasure to have Mr. Gaffey before the committee to make the case on behalf of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Irish Aid, because we play a very important role, which has been recognised internationally. The respect among the international community for Ireland's ability to deliver effective aid is illustrated by the fact that David O'Donoghue and his Kenyan counterpart have been given key roles. How do two people engage with the United Nations, which as far as I am aware comprises at least 162 countries? One would imagine that two people would require a huge team of civil servants to be able to engage with so many different countries on formulating a framework. Having said that, the goals are fantastic and nobody could suggest that we should not be dealing with poverty education, food nutrition, health education, gender equality and women's empowerment, which are all spectacularly important.

It is one thing to create the new bible or some other book under which the world should act, but it is something else to extract from these countries a commitment to sustainable development, something which will be a crucial part of the programme of the Addis Ababa conference. For example, how does Irish Aid engage with so many countries that are clearly politically corrupt and where corruption is rife? I just learned that the economy of Brazil, which we used to aspire to mimic, is now in decline and that part of the reason for its decline is that the political system is endemically corrupt. One must also question the major world power, China. How would our team engage with China on the very important developmental goals? They have a fundamental difference of opinion on how to hand out aid, particularly in Africa.

Then there is the thorny subject of our recipient countries. Uganda tried to steal money from the Irish Aid programme and other programmes, and I am tragically disturbed to read that Moldova, which has just come out of a general election, is now in the throes of imploding again because of €5 billion that has gone missing. It is corruption, corruption, corruption. How do the witnesses formulate policies to reassure the Irish people that these countries are capable of curbing their tax evasion and illicit financial flows to promote tax effectiveness?

It is a complicated world and not everybody is pure white, but Irish Aid is nevertheless obligated through the United Nations to engage with these countries.

The mystery is how does one engage with these countries to bring them on board with policy approval and financial commitments when we know they are endemically corrupt and do not properly implement domestic tax policy, for example.

Chairman

I will bring in Deputies Mitchell and Neville and Senator Mullins now, because questions could overlap. I will allow members to speak again.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

We can be proud that Ireland has played a role in getting us to where we are, particularly in getting the sustainable development goals accepted. There is general satisfaction that they are much stronger than what went before. The goals and targets are there and, hopefully, the indicators will be there before we wrap up in September. Addis Ababa is crucial in delivering what is necessary in terms of money, and the fact that what will be required is perhaps five times what the international community is currently delivering in aid means it will be a big ask, and it is important that we have a strong team there. It will not necessarily just happen in Addis Ababa. Much of our work is done and it has been done through the EU and the UN, especially over the past number of months.

Mr. Gaffey said: "[T]his can mark the start of a clear transformation of our concept of global citizenship and responsibility." I have just returned from the Turkish-Syrian border, where I visited Turkish camps and witnessed the fact that Turkey has been left to deal with 2 million refugees swamping the country. I am afraid there is little evidence of a global sense of citizenship there. While money is important, I wonder about whether the will is there, and I sense that what is happening in Africa and other parts of the world is everyone's responsibility. This cannot be left to the countries directly affected. I am also thinking of Italy, which we have pretty much abandoned, and I am not surprised that they are about to abandon us as well. It is not just about aid, although money is desperately important; it is about tax, investment, trade and governance. I was quite despondent on my return from my trip to Turkey, having witnessed the scale of the problem, which will grow. Our lack of success despite all the aid that has been given to Africa over the years is evidenced by the wave of migration, and there is no sign of that stopping as the population grows on the continent.

I am glad that gender equality is high on the Irish agenda. Does Mr. Gaffey have a sense of whether this new transformative agenda to which he referred will be delivered in practice? I realise in asking that question that if he knows the answer, we are probably not paying him enough.

Senator Michael Mullins

I join colleagues in welcoming Mr. Gaffey, Mr. Tierney and Ms Hayes to the meeting, and in complimenting Irish Aid on the wonderful work it does in the most deprived parts of the world, which has ensured its aid programme is one of the most respected internationally. We all want a scenario in which we will reach our aid target of 0.7% of gross national income as a country. As politicians, it is incumbent on us to keep the pressure on to ensure that as the economy recovers, we gradually and quickly get to a point at which we can achieve that.

A great deal of progress was made under the millennium development goals agenda, but much more remains to be done. I welcome the fact that there are three fundamental ways in which the sustainable development goals will build on what has been achieved, but perhaps I take a simplistic view that it will be difficult to make much progress unless the issues of peace, security and political stability are addressed in some of the poorer countries we are discussing. Is there joined-up thinking about how these issues will be addressed and how to exert greater pressure in countries where there is conflict and strife? We would solve many of the problems if we could overcome some of the peace and security issues.

One of the weaknesses in the process is that it is voluntary. How will progress be monitored? There are no sanctions if countries do not do what they commit to. How will pressure be exerted on the various signatories to the agreements to deliver?

Mr. Gaffey mentioned the current ODA contribution of €135 billion increasing to between €5 trillion and €7 trillion, and said that could only be achieved by leveraging private investment. What are the risks and opportunities associated with such a strategy? How can these moneys be leveraged both innovatively and effectively?

Deputy Dan Neville

I would also like to compliment Irish Aid on the effectiveness of its work. I have witnessed the effectiveness of the delivery of aid, especially in Africa, but it is one thing to contribute money and another to effect change, because I have also seen ineffective programmes. Perhaps the programme is more effective now than it was, but during the Cold War awful stuff happened, with Irish aid being politicised. I compliment everybody involved in ensuring the maintenance of the level of aid Ireland contributes during the recession, because pressure did come from political and other groups regarding the level of ODA. Thankfully, we defended that as well as we could.

How can we use aid to contribute to a movement towards equality not only in women's rights but also in homosexual rights and so on? All one has to do is consider Uganda to see how repressive regimes can be.

I compliment the Naval Service on the work it is doing with refugees. While Irish Aid is not involved directly, does it have an insight into the exploitation of refugees, apart from endangerment of lives? I refer to those who are organising the trafficking of refugees and the corruption involved.

The whole area of trafficking will grow, as Deputy Olivia Mitchell has said. Is there any way of managing it, not controlling it, more effectively in terms of those who leave Africa and how they arrive in Europe? We speak all the time about what happens when they come to Europe. What about the situation in north Africa where they travel through the various ports and are dispatched in highly dangerous circumstances?

Mr. Michael Gaffey

I thank the members of the committee for the range of questions and also for their remarks on the effectiveness and work of Irish Aid. An important point to make here is that Irish Aid is the Irish people's development programme. If it does not connect properly with the Irish people, as well as with the people with whom we work in poor countries in Africa, it will not succeed. We feel a great sense of responsibility to work with the committee, civil society and the Irish people on ensuring that we can explain the programme, that it is responding to the right needs and that we are explaining those properly.

Yesterday we had a big event in Dublin Castle, the Our World Irish Aid Awards, where primary schools won prizes for their projects in explaining sustainable development. Some of those primary school children did a really good job, which was better than some of us have been able to do, of explaining the importance of sustainable development and the sense of global citizenship and interdependence in the world today. This is exactly the point Deputy Bernard Durkan was making that our attitude to climate change in our own lives is directly linked to the effects of climate change on some of the poorest people in Africa. That was very positive and hopeful from the point of view of Ireland and the engagement by young Irish people with this agenda.

Let me go through the questions raised, and if I miss any please remind me. I will try to cover them all. Deputy Brendan Smith referred to the level of our representation at the Addis Ababa conference. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Sean Sherlock, will be on the delegation. The final composition of the delegation is still being discussed. While the UN mentioned the attendance of finance Ministers, it is not a pledging conference. I do not think there will be many finance Ministers from the European Union present. The design, work and negotiation are taking place now. I will be able to inform the committee of the exact level of representation at the political level as soon as that is decided, but definitely the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, and all of his development ministers across the EU will be present.

The Foreign Affairs Council of development Ministers which met on 26 May reached agreement on reconfirming the ODA target of 0.7% of gross national income within the timeframe of the post-2015 agenda. The Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, had to do quite an amount of work to help get that agreement. To be honest, the environment in the European Union has changed a little bit in that different member states have different priorities. The focus we have on ODA and its important role in Africa and in the least developed countries in Africa is not necessarily shared by all member states, because some of them have other priorities. Some of the newer member states have their own concerns about the level of development in their region and also the fragility and conflict in their regions. It is a different debate within the European Union from what it was in 2004 and 2005, as the shape of the European Union is different. It is significant that we have that commitment to 0.7% of gross national income. The question of how Ireland makes progress towards that target, having stabilised the programme in recent years, will be a major issue for the October budget, because that is the context in which decisions on our aid budget are taken.

I have emphasised the importance of ODA and its importance in the work Irish Aid is doing and in the context of the work we are doing with the poorest countries in Africa, but the broad agenda requires the generation of a much greater amount of funding. The private sector is important and has a role. It is clear from the agenda that the really critical element will be domestic resource mobilisation and taxation. The changes and the work that is necessary can only be achieved through proper taxation policies. Here the linkages become clear in the SDGs. Taxes cannot be raised effectively without the consent of the people, good governance, democracy and peace and security. While the SDG agenda is challenging in the sense of being so broad, it is bringing the whole context together. It would not really work by stating that one must raise more taxes without looking at governance issues, because it would not be achievable. However, it raises challenges in the negotiations because it is difficult for some of the countries and some of the governments involved to address these issues as openly as others. It has been challenging to negotiate some of these goals. It will be even more challenging to implement them, but at least if they are negotiated there is good governance and peace and security in the goals, and the next challenge is out to implement that.

Obviously, there was resistance to including some of those elements. The question of taxation will be huge. We have made much progress with some of our partners in developing countries on increasing the level of taxation they can raise for development, but much more work needs to be done. The question of illicit flows is massive. It was estimated that the amount of money lost in illicit flows out of Africa last year was of the order of $50 billion, yet total ODA provided for poverty reduction across the world was $135 billion. That shows the scale of the challenge of illicit flows and corruption. The attempt here is to start a process whereby we have a comprehensive development agenda which takes account of these challenges.

The summit takes places from 25 to 27 September. We will not wake on 1 October in a new world, transformed to the agenda of sustainable development. That will take time and strong political will. It is a voluntary process. The vital element will be the political will. The summit in September will be incredibly important in starting the process. Often it takes a generation to make these changes. We have done much in the past decade under the MDGs. More was achieved than predicted. When the MDGs were first adopted there was not the same sense of ownership that they have now. They came out of an experts' group with the Secretary General. In the first year or two there was much criticism that they were not being translated into policies, and it took a few years for governments to realise that this was an agenda that they could work on and deliver on. The progress made is significant, but still the gaps remain. There are certain particular issues where progress has been slower than we would have wanted. Large numbers of people have been lifted out of poverty, yet nearly 800 million people suffer from hunger. That 300,000 women still die every year in childbirth is unacceptable. Yet much progress has been made.

One of the really important things about the sustainable development goals is that if we are to work with them we have to be much more coherent in our own policies. That term, policy coherence for development, is an ugly one but a really important one. What it really needs is a whole-of-government approach to our development policy.

The OECD recognised that we need to make more progress. In fact, it recognised that every donor needs to make more progress. One of the most useful things we can do development-wise is to achieve coherence in development policy. We have made progress.

The meeting we had with the review team, which involved representatives of a wide range of Departments, is one which they said they had not experienced before when they reviewed a donor country. One of the Departments which has become much more engaged is the Department of Finance. Again, the role of taxation is really important. The Department of Finance has commissioned a spillover analysis of the effect of Ireland's taxation policies on developing countries. We, in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, are on the steering committee on that and I hope that report will be completed and published in the near future.

We are making progress on a whole of government approach but we have a long way to go. The One World, One Future has been important in that regard and the commitment to give a report to Parliament through this committee stands. We will prepare a report but the precise timing of which, to be honest, I cannot say. The Minister answered a parliamentary question on this recently and I can come back to the committee with information on when we will have the report.

The whole process of developing positions for the intergovernmental negotiations on the SDGs has been really important in helping to build coherence across government. We have led an interdepartmental committee on that which meets very regularly. That committee has been developing Irish positions and has helped bring together the sense of coherence that we have worked on for several years

Chairman

Is there any programme country where Mr. Gaffey believes the millennium development goals have made a big difference over its 15 years? What about Ethiopia?

Mr. Michael Gaffey

Yes. The first country that would come to mind is Ethiopia. If one looks at the real progress that has been made in Ethiopia, and it is a bit of a cliche, but we always can draw attention to the situation in Tigray. Irish Aid has been active for the past 20 years in Tigray and has worked closely with local communities and government. Tigray was where the 1984 famine happened. Its people were completely devastated and there was a vast number of deaths from hunger. We, working with the Ethiopian Government, have been very active in helping rebuild life there in terms of education, essential services and in moving to the next phase of economic opportunity. Huge progress has been made in Ethiopia. The big challenge is that as one proceeds with progress, as Ethiopia has overall growth rates of between 9% and 11%, there is also the issue of population growth. In many cases, the progress in basic numbers, made under the MDGs, is challenged by the ever rising population.

The other issue in Africa is that quite a number of countries have very high GNP growth rates that are sustained but the question of inequality remains, that is, income inequality and inequality between different sectors. That is a huge agenda for the SDGs and inequality is at the heart of it. We have recognised that inequalities have to be addressed rather than sheer basic numbers. In case anyone thinks I have singled out Ethiopia, I would say that in virtually all of our key partner countries, if one looks back at the statistics and life on the ground over the past ten years, one can see that the MDG process helped to generate resources specifically directed at poverty reduction and the provision of essential services. MDGs have made a very big difference to the lives of people and that situation is reflected in the statistics for Mozambique, Uganda, Ethiopia and Tanzania.

The challenge that we face more now in some of the big countries, where we have worked for 20, 30 and 40 years as Irish Aid, is not so much how we work to address the provision of essential services like health and education, but how we work with countries that now have high growth rates, that have businessmen and prosperity in the cities and where people drive Mercedes. They have a lot of progress but they also have a lot of extreme poverty. All of that brings to the fore the question of inequalities and how we work with countries to ensure that this term that will be used - we are determined it will be used and will appear in the outcome document for the SDGs in September - is that no one is left behind. We must ensure that we do not measure development on the basis of just overall statistics and that they are disaggregated.

There is a data challenge because we do not have good statistics in Africa. We have better statistics than we had but there is still a data challenge and it is one that was recognised by the high level panel last year. The data challenge is one issue on which we want to work on with a number of partners. When the President Higgins visited Ethiopia last November, we had some very good discussions with the UN Economic Commission for Africa on the challenge of getting good statistics in Africa. I will now quickly run through some of the other issues raised.

Deputy Durkan mentioned the challenge of explaining climate change at home and in the developed world. We agree it is a challenge for us all. The SDG agenda is trying to incorporate the effect of climate change across the world and the co-responsibility that we all share. We, through our programme, can see very clearly the effect of climate change on the poorest countries in Africa and in the poorest communities. That aspect was brought to Ireland in our conference in April 2013. Irish Aid provides between €33 million and €35 million annually specifically for climate change actions, working with communities in Africa. I agree that there is still a job to do in explaining this and the linkages to our own practices at home. I understand that the Pope will join in the effort to explain climate change in the next day or two, which will be an important intervention in the debate.

Deputy Durkan also mentioned the Irish role and how we explain it to other donors. It has been recognised clearly in the EU, and the OECD, the role that Ireland has played in how the Government handled the protection of the aid programme and how it kept the aid programme alive while under a serious economic challenge at home. In the initial years of the crisis we still were lectured a little bit by others on what we should be doing until they looked across the board at how Ireland's performance contrasted with some others. Ireland is held out as an example to those developed countries that face their own challenges and economic crises on how to make the aid or development programme still relevant and how to maintain same. I concede that the challenge now is not so much the protection but it is how we strengthen the aid programme as our economy strengthens.

Deputy Byrne asked how two co-facilitators engage at the UN which has 193 members that all want to have their say and negotiate. I understand the committee will have an opportunity to discuss this point with Ambassador Donoghue when he appears before the committee in advance of attending the conference in Addis Ababa. The co-facilitation, or co-chairing, role is a really important diplomatic role. Crucially, it gives the co-facilitators what is called an opportunity "to hold the pen". They are able to drive the drafting, not so much of the goals which were agreed by the Open Working Group, but of the declarations and the way they are presented. That is crucial work that is under way at the moment and that is the crucial role that co-facilitators will play. It is important that the co-facilitators be allowed to maintain that role because if one starts trying to negotiate the actual declaration, which is to give political will and explain what we are doing here to 193 people, no matter how brilliant and diplomatically experienced they might be, one will not get a very coherent text. Ambassador Donoghue will look forward to explaining the details of that role to the committee.

Deputy Byrne also mentioned the issue of corruption. The issue is absolutely critical. A public opinion survey on attitudes to development was carried out in Ireland in recent years which showed that Irish people are very supportive of the provision of development assistance and understand our role as co-global citizens with the poor in Africa. The one question that Irish people always ask is how can one be sure that aid will be delivered due to corruption. Therefore, corruption is the challenge and we saw it with what happened in Uganda.

The framework of the SDGs is designed to be able to deal with corruption, to build societies where corruption becomes intolerable, to strengthen the role of parliaments and to strengthen the role of oversight institutions and audit, which we are clearly doing. The Uganda fraud came to the fore because the Auditor General of Uganda discovered it and he had received a lot of his support from Ireland.

It is a big problem and it is really important therefore that the goals address issues of governance, accountability and the role of parliaments. The role of parliaments is absolutely critical in the fight against corruption. The role the Oireachtas and parliaments in other developing countries in co-operation with parliaments in Africa is absolutely critical because we will not be able to bridge the gap of what funding is needed for sustainable development if governments are not able to raise taxes from their people which will go towards development. Overseas development aid, ODA, will never do that but it can help.

Deputy Mitchell drew attention to a really important issue, namely, that we have a document which is full of good words and good intentions, including goals, peace and security and governments but let us look at the real world. The Deputy has just come from the Turkish border. That is always the challenge; that one negotiates one's framework and then one has to implement it. Senator Mullins mentioned that if one does not have peace and security, one will undermine all of the gains one makes. Not one of the countries that we call fragile states, countries in conflict, has achieved the millennium development goals, and they will not achieve sustainable development goals. Let us look at the situation in Syria. There has been a failure of analysis in the international community. Ten years ago, we would have all classified Syria as an authoritarian but stable state in an unstable region. Since the start of the crisis in Syria four years ago to the end of this year, Ireland will have provided approximately €41 million in humanitarian emergency assistance, including to the work GOAL is doing on the Turkish border.

One of our statistics from last year showed that approximately 15% of our emergency humanitarian budget went to Syria. Nobody would have predicted that ten years ago. There are massive needs in South Sudan, Somalia, the Central African Republic, and across the Horn of Africa and 15% of the funding available in emergency assistance went last year to Syria because of the need and the suffering. That is a global political failure because the regional solution in the Middle East will have to be a political solution and when that happens it will obviate the need for emergency humanitarian assistance. It really highlights the absolutely critical role of peace. There was resistance to the inclusion of a goal on peaceful societies and well-governed societies in what was seen as a development agenda because in the past there has been a tendency, first, to define development as aid, but second, to define development as something that is separate from politics and governance. Unwieldy as it may seem at times, the benefit of this new sustainable development agenda is that it attempts to bring these factors together because without peace and security one just cannot have development. If we have to devote more of our development funding to emergency humanitarian assistance we will not be able to help with the long-term development of society. That kind of explains why this agenda has to be so complex, but the real challenge for all of us is going to be how we work together to implement the agenda when the summit adopts it in September so that it does not become another document on the shelf.

Chairman

What about population movement in those circumstances? I refer, in particular, to the context of conflict and climate change where borders are broken and people move constantly. I refer in particular to Sudan, central Africa and Eritrea.

Mr. Michael Gaffey

Indeed. Deputy Neville raised exactly that point, that what we are seeing at the moment in the migration crisis in the Mediterranean is multidimensional. It is sometimes presented simply as a question of how we can cope with the migrants landing or how can we save them from the appallingly crowded boats and the traffickers. We have to see it in a much broader context because initially when people asked who all the people were arriving from North Africa it turned out that most of the people are from places such as Somalia, Eritrea and west Africa. When we look at where much of our emergency assistance and long-term development assistance is going, it is going to the countries where those people are originating from.

In the sustainable development goals, SDGs, there is also an attempt to take that much more comprehensive approach whereby we do not just look at a problem when it presents itself literally on our doorsteps. I emphasise the role of long-term development. Sometimes there is a tendency to say the needs are greatest in emergency situations and that one needs to put one’s money there, but it is all linked. Long-term development strategies owned by governments themselves are the only way to really tackle migration flows.

Some migration is inevitable and is a natural human phenomenon and it can be of benefit both to the people migrating and to the societies in which they settle. However, what we are seeing at the moment is mainly the result of conflict and under-development. Eritrea is a difficult country in which to operate. We have had great success with our partners in neighbouring Ethiopia in helping them to build up society and neighbouring Eritrea is the source of so many of the people on those boats in the Mediterranean. If one happens to google Eritrea at any point over the last year, all one finds is endless cases of people dying trying to leave the country and dying in the Mediterranean Sea, which is our European sea. What it really highlights to us is the importance of this integrated approach to emergency humanitarian assistance and long-term development and then policy on migration. None of them can be taken alone. That is another example of an area we might not have considered two years ago for a whole-of-government policy and policy coherence for development.

Chairman

Do members have any more questions? Mr. Gaffey has answered all the questions comprehensively. We look forward to the meeting with Ambassador Donoghue. He will appear before the committee the day before he goes to Addis Ababa. We commend his role along with his Kenyan counterpart in preparation for the conference. It is a big task for him and a great honour for our country as well. We look forward to further discussions with Mr. Gaffey and his team. If any of the other representatives from Irish Aid wish to respond to questions from members, they are welcome to do so.

Ms Dympna Hayes

I do not have anything to add.

Mr. Michael Gaffey

Ms Dympna Hayes has been doing fantastic work in chairing the interdepartmental committee to prepare for all of this, so perhaps at some point she will be able to report to the committee on the successes in that regard.

Ms Dympna Hayes

As Mr. Gaffey said, on 1 October things will not change. Implementation and how to drive the agenda will be key. There is a follow-up and monitoring element to this whole process. Even though the commitments are voluntary, there will be a way of monitoring how countries are doing in implementing the commitments they have voluntarily taken on. Nobody is forcing anybody to do them. This is a process countries have engaged in voluntarily and they are taking on the commitments because they want to create better, just and equal societies.

Chairman

Does Ms Hayes think the will is there on the part of all developed countries in regard to the sustainable goals? Using her magic wand, where would she see Africa in 2030? Growth and trade are important.

Ms Dympna Hayes

We have a blueprint which, if implemented, will go a long way towards delivering the societies we want in Africa and Europe. This is a universal agenda which is being adopted by every country. We are making a commitment to support developing countries to implement these development goals. Life is unpredictable and the world is a very unpredictable place. As such, in adopting these goals we have no idea what will the position will be globally in 15 years. We can only hope.

Chairman

At our meeting with representatives of Dóchas last week, concern was expressed that the time provided for monitoring progress in achieving the sustainable development goals was a little long and additional monitoring should take place. Does Ms Hayes wish to comment on that issue?

Ms Dympna Hayes

While an interval of four years before a global assessment of a country's progress is carried out may seem long, if one takes into account the breadth and range of the goals and targets, the number of issues that need to be addressed and the systems that must be put in place to achieve them, four years may be a reasonable period. Countries must be given a chance to properly implement this broad and ambitious agenda.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Gaffey and his team for their presentations. I have no doubt Ireland will continue to play a very important role in sustainable development and live up to its responsibilities in this area. Irish Aid's activities in the programme countries are highly successful. The joint committee looks forward to working closely with Mr. Gaffey and his team in the years ahead.

The joint committee went into private session at 11.32 a.m. and adjourned at 11.45 a.m. until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 24 June 2015.