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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN díospóireacht -
Thursday, 13 Feb 2003

Vol. 1 No. 2

BreastCheck Programme: Presentation.

I welcome Dr. Sheelah Ryan, the chairperson of BreastCheck, and Mr. Tony O'Brien, the director of the programme. We ask them to make their presentation on the proposed roll-out of the programme beyond the existing operational area and then members will have an opportunity to ask questions.

I draw people's attention to the fact that committee members enjoy absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. I remind members that there is a long-standing practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official by name, in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I thank the committee for its invitation. We offer the apologies of our colleague, Professor Joe Ennis, the chief medical adviser to our board, who is unable to be here today because of an annual leave trip overseas. I am sure, however, he would be happy to come in on another occasion to answer questions the committee may have.

We have produced and circulated a briefing document, together with a copy of our first annual report, covering the period February 2000 to December 2001, and this presentation will answer the basic questions of what, why, who and how in the context of the BreastCheck programme, outline the programme's performance and explain how that factors in to the nature and scope of the proposed extension.

BreastCheck is an organised, population-based free screening programme for breast cancer which provides diagnosis and primary treatment to women in the age range from 50 to 64 in designated areas. In this context, the word "screening" relates more to the screening of the population rather than to the individual mammographic X-ray examination. Screening for breast cancer means the investigation of women who are apparently well and believe themselves to be free of serious breast disease and this is done to detect unrecognised breast cancer. Screening can be done on an opportunistic basis or through organised programmes such as BreastCheck and it is our belief that an organised programme is likely to deliver much wider benefit.

The relationship between a screening programme and a woman is fundamentally different from the relationship between a symptomatic patient and a medical practitioner. For this reason with a screening programme where women are invited for investigation there is an obligation to establish and maintain the highest possible standards at every stage in the process and failure to achieve excellence or to audit performance rigorously would damage and seriously undermine the effectiveness of the programme.

Why have a screening programme? Simply because international studies indicate that an organised screening programme could result in a reduction in mortality from breast cancer of 20% to 30% in the target age range, and currently in Ireland there are 650 deaths per annum from breast cancer. The primary aim of the BreastCheck programme is to reduce mortality from breast cancer. A direct relationship exists between diagnosis, satisfactory treatment and long-term outcome. A reduction in mortality cannot be achieved unless a diagnosis is followed by satisfactory treatment. It was on the basis of this rationale that the Department of Health and Children decided, prior to the commencement of the BreastCheck programme, that the programme would end not with the diagnosis of malignant disease but at the end of primary treatment.

BreastCheck is a specialist health agency established by statutory instrument. Its board consists of the chief executive officers of each of the health boards, including the ERHA and the three area boards. There are not more than four other members. They include, for example, Professor Niall O'Higgins and Ms Olivia O'Leary. The programme is staffed by world-class consultant clinicians of international standing and higher experienced radiographic and nursing personnel, with an essential office providing the necessary programme support and evaluation.

To answer the health question, delivery is achieved through central activities which include such things as a population register, the issuing of invitations, orchestration of public awareness campaigns and general support functions, including audit and evaluation, and through specialised static screening units which provide the mammographic service to women based on invitation. Each of the static units deploys multiple, mobile, mammographic units. There is an illustration of one of the mobile units on the front cover of the submission document. The static units provide centralised image reading, a multidisciplinary assessment and diagnostic team and associated facilities.

At the back of the presentation, in the appendix, we have detailed the roles of various members of the multidisciplinary team - radiologists, pathologists, surgeon and anaesthetist. In conjunction with a designated host hospital, the BreastCheck clinical team provides surgical admission and treatment, where required. In each case the BreastCheck unit functions back to back with the symptomatic unit of the host academic teaching hospital and BreastCheck's clinicians participate in the symptomatic units of the host hospitals.

The screening process is set out in diagramatic form on page four of the presentation which shows the various stages of interface between an individual woman and the screening programme from consent through invitation and appointment to the provision of a mammogram and from result through assessment, biopsy and hospital admission, where necessary. Once in the programme a woman would be invited to repeat this process on an approximate two year cycle while she remains within the age range. You will also notice on the flow process chart that each event has a time line associated with it. These are drawn from the BreastCheck Women's Charter, effectively our contract with our clients. This is set out on page six of the presentation. A slightly larger version is available on pages 12 and 13 of the annual report. The charter, together with EUREF standards, is used to benchmark programme performance. We have included a synopsis of programme performance measured against these standards at page five. That leads us to a brief discussion of the extension.

In the health strategy, many aspirations are expressed around the provision of our health services. BreastCheck has produced a model which is based on a transparent process, clear time lines and a women's charter. The programme is subject to rigorous QA processes and strict clinical audit. It is driven by international quality assurance criteria and best practice. In terms of clinical treatment the programme is not merely consultant led but is 100% consultant delivered. It is our view that BreastCheck provides a best practice model of the way health services should interface with clients.

On the basis of phase one performance, meeting or exceeding quality standards, there has been an uptake rate to date of 75%, detecting and treating 634 cancers to September 2002, in the first nine months of 2002 detecting an average of 30 cancers per month, representing a detection rate of 8.9 per thousand. On the basis of that, the board of BreastCheck submitted a business plan to the Department last July which proposed to roll-out the service in accordance with the existing model and to do so within two years of approval to commence. That plan is summarised on page seven. We propose enlargement of the eastern region - that was approved on Monday last - and the establishment of two further regions, western, based in Galway, and southern, based in Cork.

In breast cancer screening each discipline is required to achieve certain minimum activity levels. The size of our target population nationally, based on a two year screening cycle, means that four units can be sustained to maintain expertise and optimise outcomes. Any more than four units would be sub-optimal, leading to the service being compromised as against quality assurance standards. Equally, any less than four units would result in significant, avoidable and non-desirable logistical complexity. Members are aware that the southern and western expansions are awaiting approval and discussions are ongoing concerning this phase of the national roll-out. A key item for discussion is the appropriate linkages between the screening programme and the symptomatic services in those regions. Our board believes that potential synergies should be fully maximised, consistent with the objectives of BreastCheck and optimal outcomes.

Shared training facilities, common streams on broad QA issues and evaluation and data sharing methodologies fall within this category. As in the east, BreastCheck proposes that the two new screening units should operate back to back with the symptomatic units in the host hospitals. Our proposal, however, clearly supports the view that primary treatment should be offered through the screening unit by the multidisciplinary team, including surgeons with specialised training and expertise in the treatment of early screen detected breast cancers. This is as opposed to referral to one of the nine symptomatic units that will not be back to back with a BreastCheck unit. This approach is based on experience to date and key advice concerning the critical differences between symptomatic and screen detected breast cancers. In symptomatic mammography all women referred to a hospital have a palpable abnormality in their breast. These palpable abnormalities measure between two and four centimetres and can be visualised by a radiologist and removed by surgeons trained in the management of symptomatic breast disease.

Small cancers are the norm in screening mammography and large cancers are the norm in symptomatic mammography. The radiologist who detects the small abnormality must also be the radiologist who inserts a guide wire for the surgical localisation and removal of that small cancer. Complete removal of these small cancers can only be guaranteed when the surgeon to the screening programme and the radiologist who inserted the guide wire review the mammogram and are satisfied that the abnormality has been completely removed. Equally important is the role of the screening pathologist to ensure there is complete removal of the tumour by demonstrating that the margins are free of tumour tissue.

To manage these women appropriately and to guarantee internationally approved quality assurance standards, it is essential that only those consultants appointed to the screening programme - radiologists, pathologists and surgeons with expertise and a minimum caseload in screen detected cancers - are the consultants who will be responsible for the management of all aspects of screen detected cancers. All this leads BreastCheck to advise that existing policy should not be changed and should be uniformly applied to the whole country at an early date. That has been and continues to be the advice provided by the BreastCheck board. However, we recognise that there will be competing advice and ultimately this is a matter for the Minister. We believe the objectives of the screening programme, which have been met and exceeded by the first stage, would certainly be compromised by any change in how screen detected cancers are managed, that is to say we believe that the potential decrease in mortality to be achieved by the programme would be compromised.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Does Dr. Ryan wish to add anything?

Dr. Sheelah Ryan

No.

Thank you for that enlightening presentation. In terms of the best practice model, when did you arrive at a stage where you said this is a really worthwhile programme? Were you surprised when, say, nine out of 1,000 persons coming for screening were found to have cancer and was that a relatively high figure? Are there figures available for the success rate in terms of early treatment? The final question relates to the practical, financial and political implications. You were to roll-out the programme when you were satisfied that the plan you had in place was working and producing positive results. When did you present your report to the Department and the Minister outlining clearly that we need to roll-out this operation. You say you have applied for funding, you have your master plan, when exactly was the basis for that application sent to the Department?

To deal with the last question first, the detailed plan which was prepared during the first half of 2002 was submitted in July 2002. The plan set out the detailed operational implications of extending the existing model to the whole country, the financial resources which, in essence, were required at that time and, in the prices applicable to the date of submission, a capital spend in the order of €13 million and an increase in revenue spend of €13 million from the current base to €21 million. The plan also set out the detailed implications of rolling-out the programme which were based on experience of some of the difficulties encountered in establishing the eastern region. It was on that basis that it was estimated that a minimum of about 22 months from the point of approval would be needed to establish the units, put in place the population register and the necessary staff required to roll-out and also to achieve quality assurance.

In terms of the numbers of cancers detected, the guidelines under which the programme operates suggest that the cancer detection rate of a successful programme will be greater than seven per 1,000. The current detection rate exceeds this but this is not unexpected in the first round of screening where obviously the population has not had the benefit of an earlier round of screening. We would, therefore, expect to see higher detection rates during the first cycle of screening. That would apply equally to any areas added. We were not surprised by the findings. It was viewed as a very good sign from a quality assurance point of view that so early in the programme, despite the difficulties in building up and phasing in the programme, the detection rate was what it was.

The programme is very rigorously audited. We are able to track the performance standards indicated in the presentation and the annual report. From a very early stage, therefore, it was possible to see how effectively the programme was performing against those standards. After the completion of the first 22 months of the programme, it was possible for the board and executive to reach a view on whether the model was proving to be effective.

In the context of the long-term benefits of early treatment, it is far too soon in the lifetime of the programme to draw conclusions since long-term benefit is usually measured in terms of ten year survival. International experience suggests that a programme achieving these kinds of results will achieve the objective of reducing mortality by 20%, but it would be too bold a claim to make at this stage.

I welcome the representatives and congratulate all those involved in the delivery of BreastCheck, which has been a phenomenally efficient and successful project. I am pleased to hear it is being extended to the south-eastern counties but it is in the nature of politics that I have to mention the war. It is not being extended to the west and south. While Mr. O'Brien's presentation outlined the reason for this, it is extraordinarily difficult for most of us to understand the reason it cannot be extended or what the battle is all about. We are aware that some sort of a battle is going on between BreastCheck and the Minister and the Department, but I am not even sure of this. Perhaps somebody will explain to me what this battle is all about or if it is a phoney battle.

Is there a point of view that unless the BreastCheck programme provides for both detection and treatment in the west, we cannot have one without the other or that we could have one and perhaps provide treatment in the east? Is that a possibility? If I was a woman living in the west, I would be hugely aggrieved at having to wait many more years than my counterparts in the east for this treatment, and would not understand the reason for this. That is the aggravating part of the argument. Is it impossible to put together the clinical teams with the expertise to provide this screening programme? Does it take time to build this up? What is the explanation, or is it merely a question of money?

In respect of the nine cancers per 1,000 that have been found, is it too early to say the survival rate in respect of cancers detected through screening is better than it is in respect of those detected through presentation of symptoms?

I have been requested to ask Mr. O'Brien to project his voice a little more, like any good politician. The media are having difficulty.

I will try to do so. Please remind me if I do not.

There is no battle around this issue. Currently, as members will be aware, significant investments are being made in breast cancer services through both screen detection and symptomatic services and it is entirely appropriate that the Minister and the Department would want to satisfy themselves about the appropriate linkages between the two services. We are not having any battles. We are having discussions which follow on from the submission of our plan last July. The annual report was produced last October. It, in turn, provided much data that we believed appropriately would be part of the consideration of the plan.

There are differences of view, not between us and the Department but generally, about what is the appropriate model for the delivery of the service when it is extended to the south and west. Those, however, are not the reason for my explanation that it will take 22 months. Whatever model is implemented, it will, in physical and practical terms, take 22 months to deliver from the point at which we are authorised to begin the work. There are physical structures to be put in place, specialist teams to be recruited and trained and a lot of other equipment and QA issues to be gone through with the development of a population register.

One of the key issues for the programme is that the population register has to be developed effectively from scratch using a number of sources which have to be cleaned up to make sure that, to the greatest extent possible, we invite all those women who should benefit from it. The delay between approval and implementation is not to do with any disagreements about potential models or money. However much money we are provided with, it will still take at least 22 months to deliver the programme.

To the west and south.

Not counties Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford.

We suspect that it will take up to 12 months or so. As we had not envisaged extending the programme to counties Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford in isolation, we now have to examine the matter to determine how quickly we can deliver, in the context of extending the programme to just these extra three counties. Obviously, we will want to do that in the shortest possible timeframe. The reason it can be done more quickly is that it will be part of existing infrastructure. We need to augment our staff in the eastern region by about 14%, deploy an additional mobile unit, develop the population register and then slot it into our cycle in a way which is sustainable given that we have to be able to guarantee repeating screening on a two year cycle thereafter. Therefore, it has to be consistent with all other activities in the plan. For the west and south, it will take 22 months.

Where will the treatment of patients from counties Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford take place?

In one of the two Dublin units.

They will be treated from the infrastructure already in place.

Is there capacity to extend the programme to the rest of the country? Will patients from other areas be treated in the units in Dublin?

No. Their size would need to be increased dramatically. As they would still need the additional staff, it would not foreshorten the timescale.

The overall capacity required is not available.

No, it has to be developed.

I congratulate BreastCheck. Everybody has been very impressed by the excellence of the service. The data show clearly that the standards to be applied are being met in a very sympathetic way as well in terms of the way women are dealt with within the service. Great credit is due to everybody involved.

It is important that we clarify what is happening. The promise of breast cancer screening nationwide was made initially on the basis that the service would be up and running by 1999. The promise then extended to 2002. This is not a criticism of BreastCheck, it is a criticism of Government policy on an important screening programme which saves lives. It was not intended that there would be a pilot scheme, for example, in the eastern region. It was a discrete package, which it was intended would be made available nationwide as part of a plan, but it has not worked out that way. It is frightening for women in the half of the country that is not covered by the BreastCheck programme that their lives are being put at risk.

My colleague, Senator O'Meara asked me to mention that according to figures provided by BreastCheck, 45 cancers will go undetected in north Tipperary because there is no BreastCheck programme available to women in that area. A modest amount of money is required to roll-out the programme to the south and west. That would require capital expenditure of €13.1 million and an increase in revenue expenditure of €12.5 million. Such a level of expenditure would represent good value, particularly when we know that the detection rate is so high. In the past people were unaware of the importance of such checking and they were unable to avail of a screening programme. It is clear that the high detection rate is related to the start-up of the programme and I hope that rate will not be as high in the future. That, if anything, surely reinforces the argument for putting the system fully in place now.

Has the Deputy a question?

I could put many questions. Does BreastCheck and members of this committee consider it appropriate that we cannot have breast cancer screening across the country when that service would cost such a small amount of money and when more than €60 million will be spent on disease eradication in animals this year? This issue is about saving lives. In terms of the decision that the programme providers are awaiting from the Government, presumably they are conscious of the urgent need to extend the scheme across the country.

We all accept that provision must be made in terms of building capacity, although there are questions as to why such capacity has not been built. Even in the region where the programme is established, I get the impression that the Department of Health and Children did not prepare and provide the staff and the capacity, particularly in relation to radiography, prior to rolling-out the programme. Even if the Department gives the go-ahead to extend the programme, the representatives are talking about a roll-out period of 22 months. Such provision in that regard is the responsibility of the Department of Health and Children. What can those providing the screening say to women in a region that is outside the pale, so to speak, who cannot access a screening programme which has been advertised on television informing and alerting women of a certain age that they need to avail of this service?

Dr. Ryan

We share the Deputy's passion and enthusiasm for the programme to be extended to women all over the country. However, in another sense, one must be fair in relation to the progress that has been made. The Deputy mentioned milestones that were not reached in the early days. Having been asked in 1997 to chair the original steering group to learn from the Eccles programme and to design a programme for the country, some of us were a little naive in that we believed that all we had to do was replicate the Eccles experience, but the Eccles programme was tremendous in that it showed that the clinical programme could be delivered. In other words, the expertise existed with the radiologists.

The women of Cavan-Monaghan responded to the service provided in the mobile outreach unit. It appeared that we got the throughput and the diagnosis of cancers, but many questions have not been dealt with in the context of the roll-out of the programme nationally.

Even though we began in 1997 to recruit the best clinicians, we were conscious that we did not have a clinician in Ireland in radiology, surgery or pathology who had the necessary experience to lead a programme, given that the Irish training programme has modules only in the area of consultant training. All our initial consultants were Irish graduates who returned from abroad. It was obvious that to extend the programme we would have to grow the capacity of our consultants and radiographers. We now have a school of radiography to make sure that we will have sufficient clinicians with the necessary post-graduate qualifications to cover the provision of the service throughout the country. There were issues such as that one which we thought in good faith would be addressed, but they take time.

Another major issue, as Tony O'Brien said, relates to the population register. One accountability issue is not only that there is a register, but that women consent to be on it or to be taken off it. That measure came in with data protection legislation. Therefore, we had to do a much more meticulous job in setting up the programme. That issue was partly responsible for the delay in its provision, as was the setting up of the statutory instrument. When one introduces a screening programme, one must have an entity which can sue and be sued. We thought, perhaps a little naively, that we could motor on in respect of the clinical aspects, but the business framework, the operational guidelines and the standard operating procedures had to be put on a clear audit structure, as well as the clinical guidelines.

I apologise for the fact that the deadline was not met in 1999, but by 2001 we had reached a deadline where not only did we evaluate our performance but the governing body of Europe in quality assurance, EUREF, has signalled that our programme is one of the most superior and is the envy of colleagues all over Europe. That explains some of the delays.

When all that was done, only one outstanding issue caused delay - we did not have a sufficient number of trained radiographers in the unit in the Merrion area. We recruited radiographers within the country on several occasions and we also recruited them outside the country. We now have virtually a full team, but we do not have enough trained radiographers within the country to deal with the expansion of the programme. To prepare for its expansion, we are about to commence our own post-graduate radiographer training and we are also taking the first senior registrars, who are just below the level of consultant, into the programme to give them specific training so that we will have our own consultants. That is happening this year. Two years down the line, 22 months from the policy decision, we will be able to screen women in all parts of the country.

I thank the representatives of BreastCheck for coming before the committee. Anything that can be done to reduce the epidemic of breast carcinoma is to be welcomed and BreastCheck has a role to play in that. I wish to put a few specific questions to Dr. Ryan, one of which she has touched on. I have heard rumours that there is a shortage of skilled radiographers in this area, which is impeding the roll-out of the BreastCheck programme. I ask Dr. Ryan to address that point.

The age limit for women at risk is between 50 and 64, but there is a compelling degree of evidence of breast carcinomas occurring at a much younger age. Has BreastCheck plans to extend the age at which screening will be available to women?

The service is not available in the west, from which I come, or the south. BreastCheck has picked a two year repeat programme. Having regard to the mobile units in place, has BreastCheck good scientific reasons for not extending the programme for three or four years to cover the rest of the country rather than have a two year repeat programme and cover only half the country?

Dr. Ryan

Yes, the shortage of radiographers was an issue, but now we are at full capacity. Obviously people come and go from the programme based on promotion and so on. We can deliver the full capacity currently for phase one, which covers half of the country. We would need to recruit more radiographers to extend the programme to Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford. By virtue of the fact that we are starting our own training of radiographers, we believe we will be able to deal with the increased demand for radiographers. One of the major issues facing us is planning for the capacity we need in respect of radiographers and consultants for the next phase of roll-out of the programme. We will offer radiographers around the country who are working in hospitals the opportunity, if they wish, to do advance training with us so as to be prepared to serve in their local communities. That is one of the ways we will get around it. If necessary, we will also look at recruitment abroad in the short-term, until we are putting through sufficient numbers. We have been successful in doing that, as have other hospitals.

In relation to the age limits, the evidence base is clear for women between 50 and 65 years. For women under 60 years, there are difficulties in the pick-up rate. If one screens women under that age, particularly pre-menopausal women, one is more likely to get additional operations in women who do not have cancers. The evidence is not strong enough, unless one is screening women almost yearly under that age. There is stronger evidence for extending the programme to women over 65 years and up to 70 years of age, provided they get the habit of attending, which older women do not necessarily like to do. One would probably pick up more cancers and have a better chance of securing a reduced mortality in that group. The jury is still out on screening for the under 60s, although some countries, such as America, do it every year through an insurance-based system. However, the evidence base is not very strong.

The two year interval is part of one of the ethical and scientific considerations of the programme. When one screens a woman, one must screen again within a certain period so one does not miss what is called an interval cancer or an early cancer. If one is calling well women in to be screened, in the majority, 95%, it will be of no benefit because they do not have cancer. There is an ethical obligation to ensure they do not then get a false sense of security and think they are okay for a number of years. The evidence points clearly to the fact that a two year screening interval is needed to ensure an early cancer is not appearing between screenings. One of the most difficult decisions we had to take in BreastCheck was to see if extending that to a three yearly interval would allow screening of all women within the programme once. The evidence, on a scientific and ethical basis, came down in favour of screening twice with two yearly intervals for the women in the programme.

Obviously the radiographers are quite skilled to carry out this procedure. If the go-ahead was given to roll-out the service to the west and south immediately, would it not still take 22 months to provide it because we do not have sufficient numbers of trained radiographers?

Are you satisfied that you would have them after 22 months?

Dr. Ryan

Yes. The population register is probably the biggest issue. It is necessary to have a validated population register to call and recall women and to ensure the register excludes women who already have cancer or have had mastectomies or who wish to deconsent.

The second issue is capital and having the proper accommodation for it, which is required in both Cork and Galway, and to have it back to back with the symptomatic. A slightly lesser concern would be getting the consultants from abroad to come here and work in the current programme so they can take up the leadership in Cork and Galway. To a lesser extent, there is the issue of radiographers. That would be the line of priority in the business plan. The first year costs would primarily be for the capital. There would be very little revenue in the first year after approval.

I welcome the delegation. It is clear there is a cancer epidemic worldwide and cancer rates in Ireland are particularly high. The World Health Organisation has said that 80% of cancers are linked to environmental causes. What type of qualitative data is available? This is important if we are to identify clusters. Have clusters been identified in this country? What links do our guests have with the cancer register and other bodies? The evidence from other countries is that deaths can be reduced by up to 20%. Dr. Ryan mentioned between 20% and 30% in her presentation. What is the percentage in thiscountry? Has Dr. Ryan any statistics in that regard?

I am anxious to know how the information is communicated to women. It is obviously a dramatic moment when one discovers one has cancer. How is this done? Are counselling services available? Dr. Ryan talked about a two year gap. It is known that X-rays are inherently dangerous and can cause cancer. People are recommended not to have too many over a given period. Are there alternatives to X-rays for screening? Has Dr. Ryan investigated those alternatives? When women are being screened are they asked how many X-rays they have had during the year?

It is always good to meet a satisfied customer. As somebody who has been to BreastCheck and been re-screened by the service, I found it excellent. I did not go under the name of Senator Henry but as Mrs. McEntagart, so I did not get any special treatment. The front-line troops are worthy of much praise.

We should take up the issue of the population register with the Department of the Environment and Local Government. I have been bringing this matter up for years because it is not just in relation to a service like BreastCheck that it makes a difference. It also applies to vaccinations and so forth. This issue is not being taken seriously. It is a terrible curse and causes delay for BreastCheck.

We now know that the genetics of breast cancer are important. What plans are there for genetic screening in those who are picked up with a malignancy? The genetic background of the tumour will make a difference to the treatment. We should not get left behind in this regard. The national institute of genetics in Crumlin appears to be short of money. Not much money is given in this area, but our guests should ask for that if they feel it is needed. It appears from the literature that the genetic background is most important, particularly in this country.

I thank Senator Henry for the glowing recommendation as a client of the service. With regard to the population register, the fact that we do not have a unique identifier which is usable across the population creates significant problems. We are currently drawing data from four sources. There are duplication issues and the fact that we do not have a centralised registry of deaths creates issues for us potentially writing to people who are deceased. That gives rise to further issues. A great deal of effort has to go into the population register issue. Any efforts any agency can undertake to make that more seamless would be most welcome. We recently supported the introduction of postcodes as one way of helping us to identify our target population.

Research is an important issue. Our multidisciplinary consultants committee is having discussions about research methods and the appropriate ethical framework in which the programme might consider getting involved in some of those issues. However, given the lifetime of the programme and our current focus on its extension, these discussions are at an early stage.

Deputy Gormley raised a number of issues. Communication is clearly important. This applies from the outset of the programme in terms of our broad based communications identifying the existence of the programme. We have never advertised the programme on television. Communications are tailored to be clear about what the programme is and is not. It is important to be clear that any screening programme is not going to detect all the cancers that are there to be detected. There will be interval cancers and screening is not a form of magic bullet that endows any kind of protection against cancer. It picks up a significant amount of cancer, which is good in itself. This is one reason why linkages with the national cancer registry are of significant importance to the ability of the programme to measure its own long-term performance, particularly in terms of identifying what Dr. Ryan referred to earlier as interval cancers - those cancers occurring between screenings of which we might not otherwise be aware. We have had discussions about the exchange of data. There is specific legislation that enables us to exchange data with the national cancer registry in order to do this. Over the medium term of the programme that would be a key mechanism by which we will be able to evaluate its effectiveness.

The Chairman asked about reductions in deaths, but at this stage it is too early to say. The target is in the context of a ten year process. Whereas there is significant evidence from other programmes that these achievements have been made, it would be premature to make any claim of that kind as an actual achievement for this programme. Clearly, we are hopeful that with the detection rates we are reporting we will make a significant dent in that area.

The issue of environmental factors leading to cancer is not one that comes within the remit of the programme. We are focused on carrying out a specific activity. Clearly, however, our exchange of data with the national cancer registry is a two-way process and, over time, they will be able to build up patterns showing where the cancers we detect are located, compared to other cancers. We hope through this process to contribute to a greater knowledge and understanding of the various factors - environmental, lifestyle and others - that contribute to cancer in the country.

Radiation dosage is obviously an important issue. The programme has a full-time medical physicist. We operate rigorous QA standards in terms of the performance of our equipment to minimise the dosage that is required and optimise the quality of image. We operate within radiological protection guidelines in that regard. As part of our consent process, it is important that all people consenting to be part of the programme are aware that X-ray is an inherent part of the process and they would be made aware of the risks and benefits associated with it.

I must adjourn proceedings for 15 minutes because a vote has been called in the Dáil. We will resume in 15 minutes.

Sitting suspended at 10.40 a.m. and resumed at 10.55 a.m.

I thank you, Chairman, and the joint committee for accepting the presentation by BreastCheck because it is very important. I have spoken previously to representatives of BreastCheck because, as a general practitioner, I have a great interest in this issue, as does anyone who sees what is happening.

BreastCheck stated 650 women die each year. If the mortality rate is cut by 20%, which has been proven, the relevant figure is 130 women nationally. Given that only half the country is covered, 65 women have died unnecessarily each year. BreastCheck has been in place in one half of the country since 2000. This means that 195 women would be alive today if the service was in place throughout the country. I refer the representatives to a paper which——

I appreciate the information the Deputy is giving us but this is a question and answer session.

What is the rationale of delaying the implementation of BreastCheck when internationally it is known what it can achieve? For example, in Scotland the mortality rate was reduced by 20% over five years. In the Netherlands, because of a knock-on effect of the programme, lumps can be detected in patients 18 months earlier than in Ireland. I have received letters from people telling me they have had to access private treatment because by the time they are diagnosed under the public health system, it may be too late. If there is not significant movement on this issue by the end of the year, I am committed to mobilising the women of Ireland to march in protest against the Minister.

A question, Deputy, please. Mr. O'Brien said if they got the go-ahead in the morning, it would take two years to implement the programme.

The Minister has indicated there was a linkage problem in rolling-out the service countrywide. If so, why does the west coast have a problem and not the east coast? This is tantamount to an apartheid system operating in the health services. The same situation applies to heart disease and head injuries where people from the west fare worst. If the programme is not started, it will never be finished.

A question, please.

Last July, the BreastCheck board presented its business plan to the Minister, yet as late as last December he advised me he had only recently received the plan. What does the board have to say about the Minister's priorities in this area? The board requires additional funding of €6 million to enable its capital programme to proceed. I advised the Minister before the budget that this was needed. Why has the funding not been made available and how will the roll-out of the programme proceed without it? If it is possible to implement the programme in the east it should be possible to do so in the west.

I apologise for not being present at the start of the presentation. I am frequently envious of Senator Henry and in this instance I am envious because she is a satisfied customer. I would also like to be one, but because of the age programme it will be some time before I can become a customer. Mention was made of offering the service to women who are aged between 30 and 50 years, but as there is an alarmingly high incidence of breast cancer in women within that age group, the speed of implementation needs to be looked at again.

Tomorrow I plan to visit a friend in Galway who has suffered from breast cancer. She was delighted to hear that it may not be too long before the service is extended on a nation-wide basis. While in some respects it may be too late for her, she wondered why people in the west have not been treated to the same service as those in the east. It has made them feel to some extent like second class citizens. Given the two year delay, perhaps the committee should recommend to the Minister that the roll-out programme be commenced immediately. The earlier we proceed, the better.

That is an excellent idea. Before putting the proposition to the committee I would like to ask Mr. O'Brien if he has any fears that budget matters will impede the progress of BreastCheck? I understand you presented your final data analysis last October. Does the board have any concern that funding may not be made available in the immediate future to roll-out the programme?

The board has every confidence that on the basis of the performance of the programme in its first phase, the evaluated figures and the significant support we have always received from the Department and the Minister, the programme will proceed. Deputy Cowley rightly said it is necessary to start somewhere and in this instance the programme started in a pilot area, has been extraordinarily successful and we have learned huge lessons which, when applied, will make the roll-out much easier than the initial start-up. All of the things characterised earlier as the problems experienced by the programme are also lessons learned and solutions developed and the template has been laid out as to how the programme will be delivered within 22 to 24 months of policy and financial approval.

The priorities around funding are a matter for the Minister and not us, but we have no reason to fear the programme will not roll-out. We are very confident it will and confirm that it is adequately funded at present.

I propose, in line with what Deputy Fíona O'Malley has suggested, that the committee recommend to the Minister for Health and Children that there be an immediate national roll-out of the BreastCheck screening programme. Is that agreed?

It is overdue and we should castigate the Minister for not ensuring it has already been rolled-out. What drug could cut the mortality rate in this area by 20%? All the women who have written to me, including their families, mothers and daughters——

Does the Deputy agree with the motion?

Of course, it should have been passed years ago.

The committee will forward the motion to the Minister. If required, we will have the opportunity to invite him to attend the committee to discuss the issue. We are delighted with the outstanding success of BreastCheck to date and it is imperative that a national programme be rolled out. We are also conscious that there will not be a major strain in the first years in terms of financial input and in view of this, the committee holds a strong and considered view that there be a national breast screening programme. I thank the delegation for attending the meeting. We will be supportive of all your efforts and we thank you for the excellence of the quality standards you have achieved to date.

Chairman, I second that. The presentation was excellent. I wish Dr. Ryan every success at the Western Health Board. She inherited a dinosaur which has been sorted out and she is doing a good job. BreastCheck is doing its best, but it needs the Minister's support.

We must keep pressing the issue of the population register.

That concludes the business of the committee.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.10 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 20 February 2003.
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