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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 Apr 2012

Childhood Obesity: Discussion

I remind members and those in the public Gallery that mobile telephones should be completely switched off for the duration of the meeting as even on silent mode they interfere with the recording equipment in the committee room. Apologies have been received from Deputies Ciara Conway, Eamon Maloney and Billy Kelleher and Senator Marc MacSharry.

I welcome Senator Eamonn Coghlan, and from the Irish Sports Council, Mr. John Treacy, chief executive officer, and Ms Fiona Coyne, director of participation. In considering its work programme a number of committee members, including Deputy Fitzpatrick, the rapporteur of our report on obesity, prioritised the issues of childhood obesity and obesity. Today is the beginning of our journey into this area. We are delighted to have before the committee two of our most eminent sports personalities and athletes. They have done great work on the track and have been tremendous ambassadors, and have continued this work in public advocacy and sports policy formation. We are privileged to have the three witnesses at this meeting. The Oireachtas and the nation are privileged to have two esteemed sports people who have continued to give back to Irish community and life. We will hear two excellent presentations and we look forward to hearing from Senator Coghlan and Mr. Treacy.

I remind witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2) (l) of the Defamation Act 2009 witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in regard to a particular matter and you continue to do so, you are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing ruling of the Chair to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I thank the Chairman. I welcome my dear friend and former competitor, Mr. John Treacy, to the committee meeting. I also welcome Ms Coyne. The Chairman made reference to tackling childhood obesity. The committee is now on a journey to identify how it might be able to go about this. Last November when I was an Independent Senator, along with my Independent colleagues I presented a motion in the Seanad on the Points for Life programme. One of my short-term objectives was to try to get cross-departmental co-operation and I am pleased to say that we have this with the Departments of Health; Transport, Tourism and Sport; Education and Skills; Children and Youth Affairs; and Agriculture, the Marine and Food.

The presentation I will make today is the same one I made to the Departments recently. I am pleased to say that in the coming weeks we hope to be ready to roll out the physical activity programme, as opposed to tackling obesity. Physical activity is a very important strand of tackling obesity, particularly among young children, with regard to teaching them health literacy as opposed to numeracy and literacy. I understand committee members have a copy of the PowerPoint presentation I will give because the distance from the screen will mean they will not see it too clearly.

Studies and reports on obesity have been conducted in recent years. These include Growing Up in Ireland, the National Longitudinal Study of Children by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, and the Children's Sport Participation and Physical Activity Study commissioned by the Irish Sports Council which indicated 85% of the youth of Ireland do not meet the daily recommended level of physical activity. The Irish Sports Council is tackling this itself. There was also the Get Ireland Active report which made a number of recommendations. Following these reports a number of positive steps have been taken in communities and Mr. Treacy will speak about these. The Points for Life initiative I launched in the Seanad is about taking action.

All of the reports show the shocking result that few adults and children take part in regular physical activity. The percentage of children who do not get the recommended level of physical activity of 60 minutes a day is quite alarming. Of children aged 11 years, some 49% of boys and 62% of girls do not get the recommended level. The number of 13 year olds who do not get enough physical activity is 61% of boys and 71% of girls and the number of 15 year olds is 73% of boys and 87% of girls.

The national guidelines on physical activity have seven strands from childhood through to adolescence. The Points for Life programme on which I am working focuses on one strand which is children and youth. My focus is on children and youth because a school research programme on health behaviour indicated half of primary school children do not achieve the recommended level of physical activity. By the age of 15 nine out of ten girls and seven out of ten boys do not get enough physical activity, which is quite alarming. As I indicated, I am aiming the programme at primary school children. I am also aiming it at parents to educate them through the children. Teachers are also targeted as they are on the front line from Monday to Friday. We are also aiming the programme at various sports partnerships through the auspices of the Irish Sports Council and Mr. Treacy will speak more about this. We are also targeting various community programmes through the national governing bodies which are working well in the area of activity. The children receiving support from these bodies are already involved in sports because their parents take a keen interest in after-school activities and Mr. Treacy will speak about this in more detail. The most vulnerable children are those whose parents do not have the wherewithal to take them to activities.

A US report indicated that for every $1 spent on physical activity a saving of $3.20 is made in medical costs. According to data from the World Health Organisation in 2003, inactivity and obesity represented 9.4% of national health expenditure in 1995. One can imagine what the cost to the health budget is all these years later. Two recent European studies indicated that physical inactivity costs between €150 and €300 per citizen in terms of the national health budget. A report, entitled "The National Guidelines on Physical Activity for Ireland", discusses the important objectives with which we are all familiar, for example, better cardio-respiratory and muscular fitness, stronger bones, better cardiovascular and metabolic health, healthier body fat composition, less weight gain, lower risk of type 2 diabetes and reduced symptoms of anxiety and depression. What are we doing about these?

The guidelines recommend 60 minutes of moderate to vigorous physical activity per day, but what is moderate activity? It is where one's heartbeat increases from the norm. Is golf regarded as a physical exercise? From my perspective and that of Mr. Treacy, it is not. Vigorous activity helps one's health, as one's heart beats more quickly and one's breathing is much harder than normal.

Is this distinction understood? It is a question of reaching sub-max. This is calculated by taking one's maximum heart rate, for example, 220 beats per minute, and subtracting one's age, for example, 20 years. One's heart rate should reach 150 bpm, or 75% of the calculated figure of 200, for 20 minutes three times per week. This is the norm for physical activity, as exercising at this level has a benefit.

We are discussing cardiovascular exercise, flexibility, muscle strength and bone strength. Cardiovascular exercise includes running, walking, cycling, swimming and skipping. Flexibility relates to exercising our backs, hamstrings, quads and calves. Children can improve their muscle strength through tug-o'-wars, push-ups, pull-ups, resistance training, weights, climbing and curls. They can improve their bone strength by hopping, skipping and jumping. Do children understand what the vibrations they feel when they hop on the ground are about?

My Points for Life programme is important because it focuses on health literacy and nipping bad practices in the bud before it is too late. Goal oriented and evidence based, it concentrates on physical fitness development and well-being. It focuses on specific performances, objectives and results. It builds self-esteem and confidence and improves academic performance. It complements the physical education curriculum in schools and encourages parents' involvement and understanding. It provides fitness skills to children for sports and community activities. Most children who do not participate in sport inside or outside school feel inadequate. If we can implement the Points for Life programme at a young age, we can teach kids the motor skills and give them the confidence to participate in sports later in life.

The programme will be monitored and will target interventions. The most effective way to evaluate improvements in health is to monitor. We want feedback, which can then be used to encourage and motivate children, teachers and parents. The results will convince the Government to roll out the programme in all schools. The long-term objective is to reduce the health budget and increase children's physical fitness and well-being.

Points for Life involves five simple physical fitness exercise programmes or tests, which are designed to measure the overall fitness levels of the country's youth. They are simple curl-ups, shuttle runs, endurance walks and runs, pull-ups and right-angle curls, to name a few. We must keep the programme as simple as possible. KISS in that slide stands for "keep it simple, stupid". We want to set goals for children, parents and teachers and to identify and explain the key cardiovascular, strength and flexibility exercises. We wish to incorporate the programme into the wonderful Active School Flag programme, which has been implemented in many schools. However, the latter programme focuses on increasing activity as opposed to increasing physical fitness levels, which is what we are trying to achieve. We want to incorporate our programme into a daily class routine. Physical education in primary schools amounts to 60 minutes per week, but we want that figure to be 60 minutes per day. Currently, physical education is recommended, not required. In secondary school, it amounts to 120 minutes per week and is not a requirement. One does not need to do physical education in secondary school if that is one's wish. As well as incorporating the programme into a class routine, participation should be a requirement and not a recommendation. Points for Life could also play a role in terms of literacy and numeracy skills.

I propose to prove my programme to the Department of Education and Skills by taking a focus group of 24 schools, comprising four city schools, four town schools and four rural schools in each of two categories, those being, an open curriculum and a focused curriculum. We would test the schools following the focused approach at the start of the academic year. They would implement the various cardiovascular and flexibility programmes on an ongoing basis and be tested every two months. The open curriculum schools would be tested at the beginning of the year in September, but they would continue to maintain their regular physical education programmes. At the end of the 12-month period, we would be able to compare the results of the focused approach with the results of the open approach. I believe that this would prove our point. Consequently, I hope that Points for Life can be rolled out in all primary schools.

We would love all primary school students from first class to sixth class to participate in the programme, but that must be decided with the Department of Education and Skills. The programme will eventually transfer into secondary school. At the outset, though, the primary school teacher is the best person to implement the physical education programme. If a teacher felt inadequate, we could upskill him or her through simple tasks. The pilot would start in September 2012, continue until June 2013 and be monitored every two months via assessment sheets and guidelines on what children should be able to achieve on average. The important aspect is a fitness diary. Mr. Treacy and I have maintained training diaries all of our lives. As motivational tools, they helped us to identify how well or poorly we were doing and whether we were injured. A fitness diary will be a record of children's activities inside and outside school. At the end of each week and month, they will be able to see how they are improving. Plenty of information on skills will be made available to children to take home so that their parents can identify these simple tasks.

Children will not be compared with other children. The programme is about self-improvement and will outline personalised information on each child's fitness and good health. A child will in no way be made to feel too fat or too skinny. Children will be encouraged and motivated and parents and students will be educated to understand the benefits of physical fitness. There will be a report card for each child. How else can one know the results? Unlike Irish, English, maths and so on, the current physical education programme is not discussed at parent-teacher meetings. We want it to be included in those meetings. The results will be used to encourage.

We want to combine physical education with nutrition. The Food Dudes programme in schools would be linked with our pilot programme. The Irish Heart Foundation's Bizzy Break is a fantastic programme and could form part of Points for Life. Some 97% of schools pursue healthy eating policies, a figure that we want to grow.

Points for Life's goal is to promote consistent and constructive physical fitness programmes rather than physical activity. It will improve, monitor and maintain physical fitness levels and educate children to understand. If a child can understand that his or her parents should wear their seat belts in cars or should not smoke, that child should be able to come home and tell his or her parents about the importance of physical fitness. Vulnerable parents can have fun with their children and educate them for the rest of their lives.

As former athletes, we have gained experience and simple skills. The skills we implement in our coaching of young children can be implemented in primary schools to nip this in the bud. This is all about going back to basics, the ABCs, namely, agility, balance and co-ordination and, more important, cardiovascular skills. A strong heart is a brave heart. We will have a healthier society, not next year or even in five years but in ten or 15 years when these children become adults and can then teach their children.

I thank Senator Coghlan for an informative and interesting presentation. As a former teacher, I would subscribe to his viewpoint that parent-teacher meetings must also focus on physical education and that mothers and fathers can lead the way in this regard, as they have done in respect of the use of seat belts.

I now invite Mr. John Treacy, CEO of the Irish Sports Council to make his presentation.

Mr. John Treacy

It is a pleasure to be here today to make a presentation, with Senator Coghlan, to the committee. I accompanied by Ms Fiona Coyne who leads our participation unit. I will provide the joint committee with an outline in terms of participation numbers in sport.

The purpose of the obesity task force was to examine how we can bring about a much needed cultural change in terms of physical activity. The Irish Sports Council seeks to get more people more active more often and continually monitors trends in this regard. We undertook research of participation numbers in 2003, 2007 and 2009 and will shortly publish the 2011 statistics in respect of the general population. In sporting terms, overall participation increased significantly between 2003 and 2009. While in 2003 only 29.8% of the population participated regularly - weekly - this increased to 33.5% in 2009. It is estimated that figure will have increased substantially for 2011.

An important statistic is that in respect of sedentary people, the figure has declined from 18% in 2003 to 15% and will, we believe, decline further. Relatively speaking, more women are playing sport now than was the case in 2003. Women's participation rates increased twice as fast as men's between 2003 and 2011. In 2003, 70% more men than women were participating and in 2009, 53% more men than women were participating. We believe the figure for 2011 will be under 30%. As such, the gender gap would appear to be closing, which is good news.

Another target group of the obesity task force was older people, in respect of whom the increase among over 50s has been significant. In 2003, the ratio of participation between under 50 year olds and over 50 year olds was approximately 2.5:1. By 2009 the ratio was down to 2.2:1 and it is estimated that in 2011 that ratio will be close to 1.6:1. In 2003, employed people were 50% more likely to participate than those unemployed. A big issue around participation is social disadvantage. There is a clear link between level of educational attainment and participation in sport. Those with third level education are 3.2 times more likely to participate in sport than are those with primary education. Walking continues to be the most popular physical activity for Irish adults, with more than 60% of the population engaged in walking on a weekly basis. The recession is having a positive effect in terms of physical activity in Irish society. This is not uncommon and has been the experience in other countries which experienced recession. It is important to ensure this continues. Research indicates that people who engage in physical activity are, in terms of quality of life, 14 years younger than their sedentary counterparts. This type of activity is free of charge, which is the message we must get out there.

Senator Coghlan referred to research carried out by the Irish Sports Council in 2010 in regard participation by children in sports. As identified in that report, more than 80% of primary school students participate in sport outside of school at least once a week. Unfortunately, the overall levels of physical activity among children has dropped, which indicates children are increasingly sedentary in lifestyle and are not, as was previously the case, walking or cycling to school. This means that formal sport on a weekly basis is providing the lion's share of physical activity by Irish children and young people. The governing bodies of sport are doing a tremendous job in getting children in primary schools active.

The council acknowledges that as children move through transition periods in their education, be it primary to secondary education or from junior to senior cycle, they are more at risk of dropping out of sport entirely. The study also indicates that children and young people who are not deemed competent or talented are also more likely to drop out of sport or to find opportunities to take part more limited. As stated by Senator Coghlan, while children in primary school engage in a great deal of activity there is a huge drop off in participation at secondary level. As indicated in the report, while talented and sports minded people are participating some 25% of secondary school students are inactive, overweight, obese and some are suffering from high blood pressure, which will result in great pressure on our health system in the future. We have identified those who are not participating. Zeroing in on the general population, the focus needs to be on children who are not active.

The Irish Sports Council operates the Buntús programme in primary schools through itslocal sports partnership network. In this regard, we have covered more than 2,000 schools and more than 300,000 children. We have also initiated a Buntús start programme in crèches, where we have engaged with more than 48,000 children. We are trying to create an ethos of physical activity in the minds of children and parents. Our local sports partnerships are also involved in physical activity for the wider population. In 2011, more than 180,000 people participated in more than 850 locally delivered participation programmes and an additional 22,390 female participants took part in 145 local women only programmes. We received funding from Government to support women in sport. That programme has proven to be hugely significant. Research indicates that where national governing bodies and local sports partnerships work together one gets better bang for one's buck.

Fit for Life has been identified as an important programme and generally involves a coming together of women to exercise, in particular in running. There has been an increase in the number of people joining running clubs, with more than 500 people having joined the running club in Clonmel or Galway City Harriers. Huge progress is being made.

We also run a cycle series during the course of the year. The Taoiseach led out a cycle in Waterford last year. The Minister of State with responsibility for sport, Deputy Ring, led out our Sligo cycle. More than 13,000 people participated in those events. Not only are they fantastic community events, they also generate an economic impact at local level. People come into the communities to exercise and it is driven by local sports partnerships.

People watched "Operation Transformation" in winter months-----

Members of the Oireachtas also participated.

Mr. John Treacy

-----and it focused people's minds on being overweight or healthy and the need to exercise. We worked closely with the programme and it drove home the idea of exercise, physical activity and weight. Through the local sports partnership we organised a walk series with 14,000 people participating on a given Sunday. Some 5,000 participated in a fun run in the Phoenix Park, led by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald. It was great to see our political leaders leading from the front and being physically active. For many who took part, it was their first time being involved in such an event. It was fantastic to see it.

The Irish Sports Council also plays a part in sport for those with disabilities. This is the key area for people with disabilities as sport had passed them by. Through the local sports partnerships, we have sports inclusion development officers around the country and they initiate programmes at local level to meet local needs. They have been hugely successful and we have seen over 4,000 people participate in those programmes. These are people who would never have been involved in sport before. One young lad said to me that sport had passed him by until a sports inclusion officer knocked on his door and welcomed him into sport. He felt welcome and it has opened up a new life for him. In terms of our participation programmes, the Irish Sports Council works closely with the HSE, local authorities, VECs and all members of the local partnerships to drive the sport participation initiative.

There is an upward trend in participation and we are right to focus on kids in primary and secondary schools. Many kids are being left behind. National governing bodies are doing a fantastic job but kids who are not sporty are being left behind. I echo the words of Senator Eamonn Coghlan on the point that parents have a major role. Parents can lead by example and our research suggests if a parent is involved in physical activity there is a strong likelihood kids will also be involved. I am delighted to meet the committee because we need to keep this on the agenda and work together. If we continue to improve our levels of physical activity, while zeroing in on those not involved, there will be great savings in the health budget further down the road.

I thank Mr. John Treacy and compliment him on his presentation. The Irish Sports Council has taken a co-ordinated approach to tackling the lack of participation. The local sports partnerships have been a tremendous success in the city and county of Cork.

I welcome Senator Coghlan and the chief executive of the Irish Sports Council, Mr. John Treacy. The modules we will take in this committee are critical and it is appropriate that the witnesses are the first to appear because of the importance of exercise in tackling these problems at youth level. The figures reflecting an improvement in the adult population over the past nine years are instructive. It has happened in parallel with a reduction among the youth age groups. The figures show an interesting difference between the unemployed and the employed. In 2003, those in employment were 50% more likely to participate in weekly sports but, as of 2009, that figure fell to 15%. The increase in participation for the unemployed was marked. Perhaps the witnesses can comment on why this was the case.

I commend Senator Eamonn Coghlan on his work. His pilot programme suggestion is very good. There is an epidemic and we need to tackle it immediately. Pilot programmes should be very short and we need to roll out other measures alongside the pilot programmes to make definite changes today. By their nature, pilot programmes take time to show results and they can also be used by people to show the great work they are doing when figures are getting worse.

What does Mr. John Treacy suggest we should do differently to tackle the worsening situation for the youth group?

I thank Senator Eamonn Coghlan and Mr. John Treacy. I compliment them on their presentations. Their commitment to this area is evident. The committee is starting with these witnesses in this module before Deputy Fitzpatrick tries to produce a report on which we can all agree. Over the coming weeks, we also need to look at the national nutrition policy and children's routes to schools. I am fortunate because Senator Coghlan has indoctrinated me over weeks of meetings in preparation for the motion tabled by our group.

I hope he has also empowered Senator van Turnhout.

He has also empowered me because his energy and commitment to the issue is infectious. The witnesses also referred to this in creating the positive atmosphere of physical fitness in schools, which can create infectious energy. This is the first generation of children in Ireland whose life expectancy, due to childhood obesity, is potentially shorter than that of their parents. This is really serious.

My only hesitation concerns protecting the aspect of fun, creativity and looseness in childhood. If everything is co-ordinated in schools and children keep track of what they are doing on a training card, we may lose some of the special part of childhood that is unstructured fun. I want to ensure we find the balance between introducing fitness without seeing it as the magic remedy. It is part of the solution but we must also encourage children to be children, to be active and to play in parks and have fun.

I welcome two world gold medal winners in Senator Eamonn Coghlan and Mr. John Treacy. I also welcome Ms Fiona Coyne. The school physical fitness programme is simple and fun and the activities will suit young people. Cardiovascular exercise such as running, walking, cycling, swimming and skipping is very simple and will be no problem. Flexibility is very important and reference was made to the back, the hamstrings, the quads and the calves. There is also fun in the muscular strength exercises, with the tug-o'-war, the push-ups, resistance strength, climbing and sit-ups. One of the most important aspects is bone strength through hopping, skipping and jumping. It is very good that such activities have been made fun.

I think Mr. Treacy and his colleagues in the Irish Sports Council are doing a fantastic job. I was surprised to learn that the overall level of participation in sport, which is a good way of combatting obesity, increased significantly between 2003 and 2009. It has been mentioned that in 2003, some 29.8% of the population participated in sport each week. By 2009, that figure had increased dramatically to 33.5%, which was a big step in the right direction as we try to combat obesity. In 2003, some 70% more men than women participated in sport. I was impressed to learn that by 2009, that figure had dropped to 53%. That is another big step along the road to combatting obesity. Walking continued to be the most popular physical activity for adults, with over 60% of those over the age of 16 participating in it on a weekly basis.

We are going in the right direction. People are starting to realise that obesity is a major problem in Ireland. It is a major plus to have two gold medal winners giving us a helping hand as we try to combat the problem. I thank them for coming to this meeting. I appreciate that they are busy people. We are looking for some help. The information we got from Senator Coghlan and Mr. Treacy is very important in that context. It will help us to go in the right direction.

As a couch potato, I thank the witnesses for their contributions. I have never been a sporty person. As a child and as a teenager, I did not appreciate the benefits of physical exercise. One of the first things I appreciated was watching Senator Eamonn Coghlan and Mr. John Treacy performing for this country. I recall the pleasure their outstanding performances gave me and many others. Senator Coghlan used to position himself between fourth and sixth position before putting on a sudden spurt towards the end of the race, to the delight of me and everyone else watching. In 1984, Ireland had failed to win a medal at the Olympic Games until Mr. Treacy pulled in something for us at the last minute. I remember the pleasure they gave us.

When couch potatoes like me were young, there were more exercise opportunities for us than there are for young people today. I always got some exercise by cycling the three miles to and from school. There was much more of the sort of unco-ordinated activity to which Senator van Turnhout referred. Such activity, which is very important during childhood for various reasons, has become neglected, perhaps because parents are fearful of letting their children go to school on their own. I appreciate and support what our guests have said. There is a need to think about how to get those who are not particularly sporty involved in sport. There are ways of doing that. It would be helpful if more opportunities could be given to people to walk, cycle or simply run around.

I believe that a certain mentality needs to be tackled. I worked as a teacher before I was elected to this House. One of the saddest things I ever experienced in that role was when children would come up to me during playtime to say they were bored and to ask what they should do. I was staggered when that was first put to me. When I was that age, I was never aware of a child being bored during playtime. Perhaps we have lost some of our capacity to play. Would the witnesses like to comment on how we can reach out to such people? I suggest that cohort of people is most in need of being reached out to. I appreciate the contributions we have heard. My most recent job was in a school for children with physical disabilities. Even there, it was possible to get children to participate in sport to the extent possible for them. I am aware of how much pleasure sport can give people.

I join my colleagues in welcoming Senator Eamonn Coghlan, Mr. John Treacy and Ms Fiona Coyne. I have always considered this to be an important committee. Today is a special day because two of this country's most successful and distinguished athletes are working in partnership, long after their own competitive careers ended, to create a healthier Ireland in the future. We need to celebrate that because it is wonderful. It is a special privilege to be here today. Many years ago, I worked in the fitness industry for a few years. I was particularly interested in the fitness of children and teenagers. By a remarkable coincidence, Mr. Treacy presented me with my certificate when I qualified from university in Limerick. I do not expect him to remember because it was a long time ago. I have the photograph to prove it. I am delighted he is here today to discuss this important subject.

I was in the Seanad the day Senator Coghlan launched the Points for Life programme. I was filled with excitement at the time because I felt it was ambitious programme. Over the years, Ireland has become a very unhealthy country. Statistics and information are available to demonstrate that many of our children are overweight and unfit. When one examines the breakdown of Senator Coghlan's ambitious programme, it is clear that it is very achievable. I am filled with great hope because of it. The programme deserves to be supported by the committee, by the Oireachtas in general and by Irish society.

I would like to raise four matters. First, has Senator Coghlan given any consideration to the cost of rolling out this programme throughout the State? Perhaps he can tell us what the cost per individual will be. Second, I appreciate that the programme focuses primarily on children. We know from the information we have that young people are starting to drink alcohol at a much earlier stage. The consumption of alcohol is a serious problem in Ireland. I am sure the issue of binge drinking among teenagers has been factored into the issues of fitness and health. Has Senator Coghlan given any consideration to that in his research and study? The third question I would like to ask relates to the genetic component. Does the Senator have a comment to make on that? The fourth area I would like to mention is the role of schools during the formal period of health education. Senator Coghlan has dealt with that in some detail. I welcome our guests again. This is a special day for our committee.

I thank the Chairman for giving me an opportunity to speak even though I am not a member of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity as someone who has an interest in this area and as Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education. Perhaps the witnesses would be interested in making a presentation at that forum at some stage.

I was seven years of age when Senator Coghlan won his gold medal in Helsinki. It was the first time I remember my father shouting at the television. I also remember him telling me to look at John Treacy's white cap in Los Angeles the following year. After that, I assumed Ireland would win medals at every major championship. It never worked out that way. I never get embarrassed or shy when I meet famous politicians, but I always get a bit embarrassed when I met the sporting heroes of my childhood. I ask them to forgive me.

Like others who have spoken, I am a former primary school teacher. I am excited about the proposed initiative. When I read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall recently, it struck me that we need to facilitate the instinctive nature of children, which is to run and be active. If one speaks to a yoga teacher, he or she will tell one to breathe in the instinctive manner in which children breathe. Similarly, we should focus on the instinctive manner in which children run. Our primary school system puts children in uniforms and subjects the time that they get to be active to a compartmentalised half an hour or hour each week. In some cases, children are not allowed to run during break time because of insurance issues.

Leadership is needed from the Department of Education and Skills - during teacher training, for example - if these problems are to be tackled head-on. I emphasise that children do not live in schools. One of the points I made when I was involved in the national literacy strategy was that we cannot expect schools to have all the answers to the literacy problem because children do not live in schools. The same thing applies to numeracy, educational disadvantage and the initiative we are discussing. There must be a level of co-ordination between the HSE, public health nurses, local authorities and those engaged with parents from the early stages, because a child can present at school at the age of four with the problem already evident. It can be more challenging then for the school to intervene, when it already has so many other issues to attend to.

I fully agree with regard to subject choice at second level. Recently I attended a presentation in a secondary school in my constituency in which physical education is only an option for pupils in the senior stream. This is a concern, particularly in the case of girls with body image and other issues. Another problem is the competitive nature of sport. Some schools put a lot of emphasis on team sports, on the football, hockey or rugby team, and if a pupil is not on those teams, he or she is not involved and gets turned off. We would all like to be an Eamonn Coghlan, a John Treacy or whoever, but what we are really aiming for is for people to be able to enjoy going out for a walk or a run and battling against themselves. We are not trying to produce superstars, but trying to create a level of internal competition. This element has been lost and we need to re-understand what sport is all about. This is key in the context of teacher training and understanding. Sports teams are great for school morale and identity, but leaving a child standing on the sideline who has been told he or she is not good enough at age 11, does more damage to that child than the good that comes from having a sports team.

With regard to funding, forthcoming legislation will place a levy on online betting. Currently, the total betting levy in Ireland goes to the horse and greyhound fund. This is justifiable because of the importance of the industry. However, it is suggested the new levy could raise between €30 million and €90 million. There is potential to look at that funding stream and to target it at the obesity crisis and to having a more integrated approach towards sport and exercise. I congratulate the council on its initiative and, perhaps, the education committee will support it.

Like my colleagues, I am humbled to be in the presence of the members of the Irish Sports Council, more so for their long-term commitment to this project than for their personal achievements. I am genuinely humbled that, given their achievements, they are giving back so much to children. I am grateful to them, not just on behalf of my children but on behalf of all the children of Ireland.

I am very excited about this project. I disagree slightly with Senator van Turnhout. Most kids like fun and if this is fun - as I am sure it will be - they will not realise they are doing physical exercise. I have a small concern with regard to some children. We are all aware that some children are obese at a very young age. For some of those children, this kind of physical exercise will be taxing, which will take the fun out of it. I am not sure how the council plans to get around that. I am sure there will be tremendous support and encouragement for the programme, but we must be conscious of this difficulty.

As adults we need to take some responsibility. I have four children at home. They do not decide what gets put on the dinner table or what goes into their lunch boxes. I decide that. Therefore, there must be significant re-education of those responsible for children. We are all aware of children in all our villages and towns to whom our hearts go out, but it is not their fault they are overweight or that they do not get enough exercise. That is our fault. We can all sit here in comfort and say that we do not let children out to exercise because it is not safe to do so anymore. Twenty, 30 or 40 years ago, Ireland was a far less safe place for our children than it is today. I hope everybody understands what I mean by that. Allowing our children to walk to school, go to the park and go to the shops independently is not unsafe. However, we seem to think we must mollycoddle them and wrap them in cotton wool. We do not need to do that. Even if we believed it was not safe to let them outside the front door, it would be perfectly safe to let them outside the back door. We all have back doors and access to trampolines, slides and swings. In many cases, these facilities lie idle while children are indoors playing on X-Box, only exercising their thumbs. We need to re-educate the parents of this country to recognise that we are doing far more damage to our children than any of the perceived perils outside front doors by allowing children to remain inactive in our homes and by what we put into our supermarket trolleys at weekends. This must be made absolutely clear.

Statistics were published this week indicating that many of the children born this week will live to be 100. If parents continue to carry on in the way they are doing, these children will never get that chance. I commend the Irish Sports Council on its activities and I urge it to ensure it gets parents on board. It must educate the hundreds of thousands of mammies and daddies. That is a far more difficult task than to educate our eight, nine and ten year olds. I wish the council luck and thank its delegates for coming before us.

I am sorry to have missed the presentation, but I have flicked through it and must compliment those who brought it to us. For me, fitness begins at home. It is about having regular meals and about sitting down to dinner at the table rather than in front of the television. It is about looking in the fridge at the weekend and planning. If we cannot control what happens in the home, it will be even more difficult to consider controlling what happens in school. However, we must try. I grew up in an era when play on the street was important. We had kick the ball, kick the can, rounders, summer projects and community games. I took part in the community games myself.

What has happened to change this is that people's lifestyles have changed and sporting activity now is more professional, which involves money. Even in poorer communities now, joining the local running club costs money. Sports clothing for GAA clubs also cost money. I know from experience, as I have an Irish dancer in the family, that Irish dancing involves huge money. Many families just cannot afford to get involved. I remember that in the good old days we used to have a summer fair every year which always involved races for children for which they would be awarded bandy old medals bought for half a crown. We need to look at involving communities again and at volunteerism in particular. This is very important in the current times. When we were flush with money, we did not put it into schools or decent sports halls. We relied on teachers to take ten or 15 minutes from the timetable to take children to the gym or hall and provide them with exercise. That was not adequate.

I am all for children playing on the street. That practice has not died out where I live as I see many children playing outside as they cannot afford to join clubs, even if there is one in the locality, as they do not have the money. I see a huge commitment in the schools now and not only do teachers teach the regular subjects, but a lot more. They do not get enough credit for what they do in the schools. Like Mr. Treacy, I believe the council should look to the communities and to volunteers. It must try and encourage more people to volunteer. One of the biggest problems with regard to people volunteering is insurance and the responsibility for that. I remember when Tommy had a van, we used to throw 20 children in it to bring them up to the park to play football or bring them out to Bushy Park. We did not see any harm in that because we thought we were doing good. We did a lot of good. Unfortunately, however, rules and regulations have made it very difficult for people to become involved in their communities. Now, when one goes to ask people to join a local youth club or become a volunteer, they ask why they should bother because people are being paid to do that. From my perspective, introducing paid positions in the communities has done significant damage to volunteerism.

I would love to see the Irish Sports Council put its mind and heart into local communities to encourage volunteerism within those communities. Many people are now unemployed and they would be available during the day. A young lad who lives across the road from me has done more for running and exercise by bringing children to the park in the evenings than anyone from the Irish Sports Council has done in my community. I am looking forward to this programme and think it will work well in the schools. Anything that encourages people to get out of their seats is good. However, we need to look at the issue of cost. It is important to remember that many people in our communities no longer have the money to join in activities that cost money. I would love to see a rebirth of community games of some sort in every community. This would do a lot to help children live longer and to encourage their families to participate.

I thank Senator Coghlan and Mr. John Treacy for their contributions. People have said the Seanad no longer has a role, but Senator Coghlan's approach challenges that belief. It shows how the Seanad can be used as an effective mechanism for selling a project that is good for everyone in this country. I thank Senator Coghlan for using every opportunity he has in the Seanad to highlight this issue and for being positive in promoting this programme.

In one area in which I work, there are more than 1,150 families in a low income bracket. One of the problems we have is that many of the sporting facilities are locked up at certain times. If sport starts in schools, the likelihood is that people will continue to be involved in it. The major issue with regard to the involvement of young people in sport is that 85% of young people who become involved in crime are not involved in sporting activities of any description. That is why this programme is so important. The idea is to start, through schools, an interest in sports among children while they are still young, developing into sporting organisations, so that people stay involved outside school as well. This is important.

We need to examine areas in which there are facilities but unfortunately the manpower is not there to have them opened up, especially at weekends and in the evenings. This is something we need to consider further. How can we get more people involved to make sure that facilities that cost a lot of money to build are opened up as often as possible? This is something we should consider long-term. I thank the witnesses for their contributions. This project is very positive and is of benefit of everyone in the country.

I am pressed for time and we are working against the clock. The witnesses have got a flavour of opinions from the committee, so I will hand back to Senator Coghlan and Mr. Treacy.

So far there have been nine, if not ten, contributions consisting of questions and observations, so I will try to respond to all of them in the course of four minutes - as quickly as I run a mile now. I would like to emphasise that this debate is about childhood obesity. My Points for Life programme, which I initiated in the Seanad, is not - I emphasise this - about sports. It is about education and health literacy. I want to make that point clear. What I am doing is based on my own experience and on the microcosm of human life I have seen in front of my eyes day after day, week after week and year after year since I was a young child. It is also based on the young children that I and my volunteer club members see in athletics. I emphasise that this is not about sports, nor about running. It is about what I know and what I see and what Mr. Treacy knows and sees and has learned all his life.

The first question was about the implementation of a pilot programme in schools. From my research I have identified that in this world of bureaucracy and politics, a pilot programme introduced by Senator Coghlan on top of dozens of other pilot programmes that have been recommended by the Irish Sports Council, the volunteer local sports partnerships and the regional development officers is just another pilot programme. We are dealing with school principals. If the principal is not into physical education, the programme is not going anywhere. If he is, we have a better chance. We are dealing with PE teachers, parents, boards of management and unions. Thus, I have to come with a pilot to prove my point. The reason for the pilot is to examine the effect of the programme on the focused curriculum group versus the open curriculum group. If we can prove ourselves right after a year, we will move forward. Again, I emphasise that the programme is not about sports but about education.

Two or three weeks ago, a study came out that said the youth of Ireland - particularly girls - spend 19 hours a day either sitting down or lying down. That equates to five hours a day of activity, which probably consists mostly of walking to and from classes or walking up the stairs to bed. It is not vigorous activity. That is a startling statistic. When it comes to obesity, there are three strands. Senator Crown, who is here today, knows this. There is the genetic side of things, which the Points for Life programme can only address in a very small way. It is all about what one takes in and what one puts out. If a person consumes 7,000 or 10,000 calories a day and only burns off 2,000 through physical exercise, he or she will expand. The Points for Life programme wants to nip this in the bud by educating vulnerable young children on what exercise and fitness are all about.

There were questions about the diary that is used as part of the programme. Children in primary school have to get their maths books signed by their parents. They have their Irish books, their geography books, their history books, and they must do their little essays. I want kids to have a diary because I know from my experience and Mr. Treacy's experience how important a training diary is as a motivational tool. The aim of the diary is not to make this into a military-type exercise. Senator van Turnhout was afraid of taking the fun out of it. I see children, week after week, having fun through exercise - doing relays, jumping hurdles, doing agility exercises and participating in teams - and I see the improvement week after week. That is the reason for the importance of the diary.

Again, I emphasise that this is not about sports. If someone is a couch potato, it is due to a lack of motivation. If parents teach their children about the importance of fitness programmes at a young age, and instil this into them, when they get older they will understand more and they will probably be more motivated to do such programmes.

There is the issue of funding; what will the programme cost? The pilot programme will cost nothing. In British Columbia in Canada, a programme was implemented in which children took five-minute breaks five times a day to increase their bone density and undertook a fitness programme to increase their strength and cardiovascular fitness. A bell would go off between classes and the children would do exercises, counting to 20, 30 or 40. They did this for five minutes, with one-minute intervals between the exercises. What does that do to a child's body? It increases bone density and bone growth. Later on in the day they do five minutes of something else. If they do this three or four times a day, they are getting 15 or 20 minutes of exercise in between classes. It costs nothing to do that. The only costs in the pilot programme will be for the diary, and I think we will get that covered. To increase the skills of PE teachers who feel a little incompetent, as we found in the research, can cost money if we want to bring in commercial people. However, through the regional development officers and the local sports partnership, in co-operation with the ISC, I am sure it could be done with what is already there.

I will finish on that and let Mr. Treacy give his contribution. This is not about sports, it is about education.

Mr. John Treacy

We are talking about a cultural change in Ireland, and it must be driven by parents. What we have to do is to make time for physical education in schools. It is as important as reading, writing and maths. I would like parents to be asking teachers how their children are doing in PE, sports and physical activity. If parents put it on the agenda, it will be on the agenda in schools. It must be driven by parents.

What about the changing the culture whereby children are not allowed to run in school yards for insurance reasons?

Mr. John Treacy

It is not an issue.

All right. Does Mr. Treacy envisage, in the context of the sports partnership, the VECs or the Department of Education and Skills examining Senator Burke's point regarding the use of facilities in community colleges, for example, at weekends or over the summer, when they are idle?

Mr. John Treacy

The Minister himself is examining the issue of funding for school facilities which are left closed. It is not good enough. There are fantastic facilities around the country and they all need to be used well. Being involved in physical activity is very affordable; it does not cost an awful lot of money. The volunteers are still involved. There has been no reduction in volunteerism in sport. Because of what we have done with regard to the code of ethics and child protection in children's sport, the volunteers know exactly what they need to do and what they cannot do. All those guidelines are there for them. The volunteers are there, the facilities are there, and it does not cost a lot. We just need to put it on our agenda.

In Mr. Treacy's presentation he spoke about the increasingly sedentary lifestyle of children. Are we focusing on the right area? Are we too ambitious? Mr. Treacy said that volunteerism had not decreased and said that recession is a time when more people get involved. Do we have a co-ordinated, overarching approach, or are we doing everything in isolation, with nothing happening in the middle?

Mr. John Treacy

The report on obesity recommended a co-ordinated approach. To some extent this exists but the report also referred to the need for political leadership and this is a very important point, in my view. A committee such as this could keep this subject on its agenda. We have discussed the aspect of physical activity but we have not discussed the fact that our kids are being constantly bombarded with diet sodas and crisps. These are the reasons children are putting on weight. I was at the till in a garage recently and I was offered a tin of Coke and a bag of Tayto for one euro. We are trying to do our best to promote physical activity and this stuff is being thrown at us. A balance is needed.

I was conducting research for the Points for Life programme and I happened to be in an obesity clinic speaking to a particular doctor. The person left the room and I looked out the door and across the hallway where I saw a vending machine selling sodas, Coca-Cola, crisps and Mars bars. This is in an obesity clinic. When the doctor returned to the room I asked about the machine. The reply was that the clinic had to make money. This culture has to change. I was in a school recently and a young child asked me if I would be able to run around the school yard without stopping for a drink. I said, of course, no problem. The child replied: "I would have to have a Coke." He asked how come I did not need to drink. I explained that I keep hydrated on a regular basis. I explained hydration by means of the electric kettle. I asked the young child if his mammy had any flowers or plants growing in the house. He replied that she had. I asked him what would happen if he were to pour a can of Coke onto the plants. His reply was: "They would die." When I asked him what would happen if he poured a can of water onto the plants, his reply was: "They would grow." I replied: "That is why you have to drink water rather than drink Coke." Simple little things have to be taught and learned at a young age to make a difference ten or 15 years down the road.

All the various Departments are doing wonderful exercises with wonderful information, promotions and studies and research and other fantastic initiatives. However, there must be a bit of cohesion and a bit of co-operation among all the Departments in order to identify and produce improved results. With regard to physical exercise and activities - I emphasise that I am not saying sports - the most important factor for success is consistency. If the children are taught about consistency in exercise and in diet, then the results will be seen in 15 and 20 years but we need everyone to take action now.

I thank both Senator Coghlan and Mr. John Treacy for their attendance. I also thank Ms Coyne. As part of this series of meetings, the committee will be hearing from representatives of industry, the medical profession, education and the Irish Sports Council.

Will the committee acknowledge that the Seanad has a useful role after all?

Absolutely. Senator Coghlan and Mr. Treacy might consider leading the Oireachtas Members in a 5 km run at the conclusion of our hearings.

Mr. John Treacy

Senator Coghlan and I are leading out a sports council challenge to workplaces for the month of May. We want all workplaces to get involved. Healthy and fit employees are a lot more productive. I suggest this as a challenge for the people here and for the Members.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.55 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Thursday, 26 April 2012.
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