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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN’S RIGHTS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Dec 2004

Treaty of Amsterdam: Motion

We are to deal with a motion in regard to qualified majority voting procedures in the context of the exercise of the option of discretion under the Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam in respect of the draft decision on QMV procedures for title IV, a draft decision of the Council providing for certain areas covered by title IV of Part three of the treaty establishing the European Community to be governed by the procedure referred to in Article 251 of the Treaty.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Fahey, and his officials. I thank them for attending to consider a motion which has been referred by both Houses to the committee and which reads as follows:

That the proposal that Dáil Éireann approves the exercise by the State of the option provided by Article 3 of the Fourth Protocol set out in the Treaty of Amsterdam to notify the President of the Council that it wishes to take part in the adoption and application of the following proposed measure:

Draft decision of the Council providing for certain areas covered by title IV of Part three of the treaty establishing the European Community to be governed by the procedure referred to in Article 251 of that Treaty.

Analogous wording was used for the Seanad motion. Members have been distributed with copies of the information notes supplied by the Department together with the speaking note of the Minister. I invite the Minister to make his presentation.

I thank the committee for allowing time to discuss the motion relating to the exercise of the option which the State has under the provisions of the Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam to take part in the adoption and application of the proposal for a draft decision of the Council providing for certain areas covered by title IV of Part three of the treaty establishing the European Community to be governed by the procedure referred to in Article 251 of the treaty. That procedure provides for qualified majority voting in Council and the application of the co-decision procedure in the European Parliament.

The Netherlands Presidency has indicated that it wishes to have the text of this instrument adopted before the end of 2004. Accordingly, I am conscious that the deadline we have to meet is very tight and, for that reason, the co-operation of the committee with regard to today's discussion is very much appreciated.

At the outset, it is important for me to clarify the background to this proposal. The basis for this draft Council decision is provided in Article 67(2) of the European Community Treaty which provides, inter alia, that after a period of five years which commenced on 1 May 1999, “the Council acting unanimously after consulting the European Parliament, shall take a decision with a view to providing for all or parts of the areas covered by this title [Title IV] to be governed by the procedure referred to in Article 251”. Essentially, this means moving decision-making in certain areas which I will shortly outline from unanimity to qualified majority voting and co-decision.

I also mention, in particular, that Article 67(2) was the subject of a specific declaration by the member states which was annexed to the Nice Treaty. In the course of that declaration it was agreed that, in the decision required to be taken, pursuant to Article 67(2) the Council would decide, from 1 May 2004, to act in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 251 in order to adopt the measures referred to in Article 62(3) and Article 63(3)(b), and would decide to act, in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 251, in order to adopt the measures referred to in Article 62(2)(a) from the date on which agreement is reached on the scope of the measures concerning the crossing by persons of the external borders of the member states.

The declaration went on to state that the Council would, moreover, endeavour to make the procedure referred to in Article 251 applicable from 1 May 2004 or as soon as possible thereafter to the other areas covered by Title IV or to parts of them. The political decision to fulfil the Article 67(2) process was taken at the recent European Council in Brussels on 4 and 5 November 2004 as part of the Council's adoption of The Hague programme on strengthening freedom, security and justice in the European Union. This requested the Justice and Home Affairs Council, no later than 1 April 2005, to adopt a decision to apply qualified majority voting and co-decision procedures to certain aspects of asylum, immigration and free movement policies where it does not currently apply. The European Council's request took account of an evaluation by the European Commission published in June 2004 of the operation of the 1999 Tampere work programme in the JHA area and also of a recommendation of the European Parliament adopted in October 2004, both of which recommended that Article 67(2) be applied.

The Netherlands Presidency has now tabled a draft Council decision, in compliance with the request of the European Council, which it is their intention to have adopted before the end of their Presidency in December. Because this is another Title IV instrument, the committee will be aware from previous proposals which the Department has brought before it that, under the Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam, the State has an option to notify our wish to take part in the adoption and application of the proposal. We may also accept such a measure any time after it has been adopted.

The Government is of the view that it is important for Ireland to respond positively to the proposal before the committee today by exercising our option before it is adopted later this month. I understand that the United Kingdom is taking a similar approach and, at the present time, is undertaking the relevant procedures to enable it to participate in the proposal's adoption.

I wish to outline to members the scope of the draft decision and why I believe it should be supported. Article 1 essentially extends QMV and co-decision procedures to matters dealing with illegal immigration, internal borders, external borders, burden sharing, illegal residence and repatriation. In regard to those areas coming within the scope of Title IV of the EC Treaty, it covers Article 62(1), dealing with measures with a view to ensuring the absence of any controls on persons, be they citizens of the Union or nationals of third countries, when crossing internal borders; Article 62(2)(a), measures on the crossing of the external borders of the member states which will establish standards and procedures to be followed by member states in carrying out checks on persons at such borders; Article 62(3), measures setting out the conditions under which nationals of third countries will have the freedom to travel within the territory of the member states during a period of no more than three months; Article 63(2)(b), measures on refugees and displaced persons promoting a balance of effort between member states in receiving and bearing the consequences of receiving refugees and displaced persons; and Article 63(3)(b), measures on immigration policy in the areas of illegal immigration and illegal residence, including repatriation of illegal residents.

The proposed decision is due to take effect on 1 January 2005 provided it is adopted in December 2004. For the information of the committee, the reference in paragraph 13 of the Preamble to the application of the proposal to Ireland and the United Kingdom will only apply should either or both States indicate their intention to exercise their Title IV option in this regard. The draft decision does not include the Title IV provisions on asylum or legal migration within its scope.

In the case of asylum provisions, Article 67(5) of the EC Treaty automatically applies the Article 251 QMV procedure to asylum matters contained in Title IV once the Council has adopted Community legislation defining the common rules and basic principles governing these issues. Articles 63(1) and (2)(a) deal with the corpus of legislation designed to harmonise the common EU asylum system. All the main asylum instruments save one have now been adopted by the Council. These include instruments dealing with minimum standards for qualification as a refugee and for subsidiary protection; minimum reception standards; rules determining the member state responsible for processing an asylum application; the EURODAC fingerprinting regulation; the European refugee fund and rules on a scheme of temporary protection for displaced persons.

Once the draft asylum procedures directive setting down minimum standards for the grant and withdrawal of refugee status has been adopted by Council, and this is expected to happen by early 2005, all future initiatives in the asylum area will, in line with Article 67(5) of the Treaty, be subject to adoption by QMV.

The draft decision, in line with the request of the recent European Council, also does not cover matters to do with legal migration which are addressed in Article 63(3)(x) and (4). These cover measures on immigration policy in the areas of conditions of entry and residence, standards on procedures for the issue of long-term visas and residence permits, family reunification and measures defining the rights and conditions under which legally resident third country nationals may reside in other member states.

Article 2 of the proposal is a transitional provision and provides for the application of Article 251 to opinions of the European Parliament obtained by the Council before the date on which the Council decision comes into effect. These opinions concern proposals for measures in respect of which the Council will act, pursuant to this decision, in accordance with the QMV and co-decision procedure.

Article 3 of the proposal provides for the amendment of two Council Regulations, 789/2001 and 790/2001, reserving to the Council implementing powers with regard to certain detailed provisions and practical procedures for examining visa applications and for carrying out border checks and surveillance which are being modified so as to require the Council to act also in these cases by QMV. The State is not a party to either of these instruments.

The Government is supportive of the move to qualified majority voting in the areas coming within the scope of this instrument for a number of reasons. The move to QMV will make decision-making in the areas concerned more efficient in an enlarged Union of 25 member states. In addition, the move to QMV and the application of the co-decision procedure will essentially create an "equality of arms" between the Council and European Parliament in this area. This will strengthen the democratic nature of the EU policy making process by enabling the democratically elected members of the European Parliament to play a more active role in the formulation of policy in the areas of asylum and immigration. Under the co-decision procedure, the European Parliament essentially shares the decision-making power with Council. If Parliament decides to reject a proposal covered by co-decision, there is a conciliation procedure under which differences with the Council can be resolved. There is, of course, an incentive on the part of the institutions involved in the legislative process, the Commission, Council and the Parliament, to reach a compromise.

I should clarify for members that this decision will not impact on the provisions of the Fourth Protocol to the Amsterdam Treaty which provides the State with an option in respect of Title IV measures, the application of which stems from the common travel area arrangements with the United Kingdom. This means that the relevant measures to be adopted by QMV and co-decision will not apply to Ireland unless we opt-in to the adoption of the measures or to their application after adoption. Accordingly, the constitutional requirement to come before both Houses and seek approval for the exercise of the State's Title IV option will continue to apply. The proposal implementing QMV with co-decision in the areas I have outlined is also in line with the provisions of the new constitutional treaty, which will extend QMV to all immigration and asylum matters.

There is little doubt that continued and enhanced co-operation at EU level in the areas of asylum and migration management continues to be essential. Member states acting together in, for example, tackling illegal immigration and people trafficking have the capacity to achieve more successful outcomes than states acting on their own in this area. Following comprehensive co-operation in these areas at EU level over the past five years under the 1999 Tampere programme, much has been achieved but there is also a substantial programme of work waiting to be progressed.

In the area of asylum, while primarily dealing with minimum standards, a range of legislative instruments which I have outlined to the committee has been adopted providing for the first stage of the completion of a Common EU Asylum Policy in line with our obligations under the Geneva Convention. The Council put in place a number of important parts of the EU asylum jigsaw under the recent Irish Presidency of the Union. In the area of legal migration, several initiatives have been completed that seek to harmonise immigration procedures in the Union. Among these are directives on family reunification and on long-term residence for third country nationals. In addition, a directive on student migration is expected to be formally adopted in the near future. A general approach was also recently agreed on a directive on the admission of scientific researchers to the Union, which will support the Lisbon strategy to enhance competitiveness.

Complementing these admission instruments is a range of measures in the area of visas, which includes a standardisation of the format of visas and residence permits, including the introduction of biometric identifiers and a common visa list for Schengen countries. Work is progressing on the development of a visa identification system and the establishment of a regime of local border traffic at the external borders of the Community.

On illegal immigration, co-operation at EU level has included harmonisation of the financial penalties imposed on carriers transporting third-country nationals; a directive on the obligation of carriers to communicate passenger data; the creation of an immigration liaison officers' network; and a regulation on the systematic stamping of migrants' passports at the external borders of the Union. It has culminated in the adoption of a regulation providing for the establishment of a European Border Agency in May 2005, which will manage co-operation by member states at the external borders of the Community.

The future EU work programme in the asylum and immigration areas is also comprehensive and is set out in the Hague programme much of which will, of course, be dependent on the new constitutional treaty for a legal basis.

In the area of asylum and refugees, the programme aims to enhance the common EU asylum system by the establishment of a common asylum procedure and a uniform status for those who are granted refugee or subsidiary status throughout the Union. The commission has also been requested to undertake studies on the appropriateness, possibilities and difficulties, as well as the legal and practical implications of joint processing of asylum applications within and outside the Union.

There will also be greater emphasis placed on partnership with third countries, including countries of origin and transit, to enable them to strengthen the capacity of their national asylum systems, encourage respect for the Geneva Convention and generally enhance their ability to protect refugees on their territories.

The Hague programme directs the Council and the Commission to develop the debate on labour migration into the EU. The European Council, taking into account the outcome of discussions on the Green Paper on labour migration, best practice in member states, and their relevance for implementation of the Lisbon strategy, has requested the Commission to present a policy plan on legal migration, including admission procedures capable of responding promptly to fluctuating demands for migrant labour in the labour market before the end of 2005.

In the area of integration of migrants, the programme recommends the development of a framework, based on common basic principles, to form the foundation for future initiatives in the EU, relying on clear goals and means of evaluation. Comprehensive proposals have also been included in the Hague programme on the management of migration flows, including the fight against illegal immigration, the use of biometric identifiers in travel documents and the enhancement of EU visa policy.

The years ahead will contain many challenges for EU co-operation in the areas of asylum and immigration, with the Hague programme providing a comprehensive work programme for this purpose. While the new constitutional treaty will provide the main legal basis for enhanced co-operation among EU states in the intermediate period ahead, the current institutional and legislative framework will be enhanced by the application of the draft decision currently before this committee.

I hope the committee will support the proposal that Ireland opts in fully to this legislative proposal prior to its planned adoption by the European Council before the end of December.

As I understand it, the Minister of State is saying that the procedures contained in this decision relate to qualified majority voting in the Council, and that there would be co-decision by the European Parliament as regards all these measures. They would be dealt with in unison. In other words, neither the Council nor the Parliament would make a final decision individually but would do so together. What is the procedure involved? Is the proposal — for example, on borders, trafficking or asylum — mooted by the Council of Justice Ministers? Can our Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform bring a proposal to the Council of Ministers which will then make a qualified majority decision, after which it will go to the European Parliament, or vice versa? Will a package of proposals be developed by a third party? There is no indication, as yet, how it will work procedurally.

The idea of having a greater co-decision role by the European Parliament is welcome. In theory, it certainly sounds proper that the EU should have a common policy on borders, in so far as possible. I am concerned, however, that while we are discussing asylum, legal immigrants and the free movement of people, constraints might end up being imposed in this regard.

It should be recalled that Ireland does not have any immigration policy so we do not know from where we are starting. We are currently putting together citizenship legislation but we have no immigration or residency policy. Will we now discover that policy on all asylum, labour migration, refugee status and travel matters will be made under a common European arrangement? Could we end up with a situation whereby the EU says the best approach is to have holding centres for all asylum seekers outside the EU or somewhere on the EU's borders, as has been mooted by some countries?

The majority of EU countries are former colonial states so their approach would be different from ours. Even the Netherlands, which currently holds the EU Presidency, has changed dramatically in recent times from being a very liberal country to being quite a right-wing one as regards its approach to immigration.

We are entering a process whereby qualified majority voting will decide these matters. The Chairman is aware of the degree to which we have had a dispute over the mechanisms that are being used, including deportation. There will be a common EU deportation policy, but currently our own deportation policy is shrouded in secrecy. Will the common policy mean that we will have more transparency as to how people who have been unsuccessful in their applications to remain here are dealt with? Does it mean that we will get rid of the huge delays in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? Does it mean that we will know what is going on, or will such decisions be made by the EU without any real reference to Ireland?

What are "minimum reception standards"? We may be seeking decent reception standards, not just minimal ones. How will the repatriation of illegal residents occur? I have a number of questions about the area covered by this proposal because there is a huge difference between trafficking and other illegal cross-border activities and people seeking asylum. The free movement of people seeking asylum can be curtailed. We do not want to mix the two and end up trying to deal with human traffickers, drug smugglers and so on while excluding genuine refugees from our territories.

I would like to see how that will work out in a common policy which will be based on the external borders of the European Union, if we accept this. In principle, it is a good idea but in practice I would like to see how it will operate.

I, too, have some concerns about the overall trend towards curtailing civil liberties and about maintaining human rights. The laws being introduced, sometimes on the pretext of security, are used ultimately to deprive people of free movement. Having said that, I do not think we can gloat over the institutions or the regulations we have in place as the lack of them is our greatest problem.

I welcome this, particularly given the involvement of the European Parliament. We are not dealing with any specific measures, only with procedural issues. If the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament deal with it, it makes the whole process more democratic and, in that context, it is welcome.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey. I have major concerns about a number of issues. Article 1 deals with illegal immigration. I am worried about the use of language because language is very important in regard to this debate and framing documents. This phrase "burden sharing" sends out a very negative image. Are these words used throughout the EU in regard to illegal immigration? Most immigrants I know, whether they are legal or illegal, want to get on with their lives. They are decent, honest and want to work.

The Minister of State said seven initiatives have been completed which seek to harmonise immigration procedures in the Union. Among those are directives on family reunification. What types of initiatives are being brought forward in regard to family reunification? My experience is that Ireland and the EU are not very good in that regard. A group of Kurds are living in Marino in my constituency and they are here legally. Some close relatives are in a refugee camp in Iraq. One can imagine how difficult it is for Kurds in parts of Iraq, particularly with the conflict there. Our State has made it very hard for the family in terms of reunification. What types of initiatives will help to improve the situation?

On the integration of immigrants, the programme recommends the development of a framework based on common basic principles to form the foundation of future initiatives in the EU, relying on clear goals and means of evaluation. What types of programmes are involved? What is actually happening? My information is that most immigrants seem to be on their own in their new countries and are basically building up their own separate communities. From an educational and a social point of view, there are a few people who are making the effort, but the majority of immigrants seem to be on their own.

I refer to the term "genuine refugees", which Deputy Costello used. I would appreciate it if legislators and others stopped using the term "genuine refugees" because it does not help the debate.

In 2002, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said he was opposed to the extension of QMV to matters of substantive criminal law. He also insisted that Ireland should retain a veto over EU measures in the areas of justice and home affairs. I do not know what has changed since that statement by the Minister.

He has mellowed.

We could suggest other things that have happened.

A change such as this in Government policy, or in the Minister's policy, requires a full debate in the House rather than in committee. I hope the committee refers it back to the House for debate. Why are we agreeing to the acceleration of the debate? I know the Netherlands Presidency wishes to finalise this but we should not be rushed into decisions of such magnitude because of the programme of another country. All national parliaments should be afforded sufficient time. If we opt out, I presume the status we have under qualified majority voting remains. That would allow us to debate each incident on a case by case basis. Will the Minister of State clarify that?

The Minister of State mentioned a number of directives. I have not seen sight of most of them. Will they come before the House? I heard about some of them at a conference last week. For instance, when will we discuss family reunification? We should be signing up to some of those directives prior to taking a decision to extend QMV to this area. Was there much discussion on the Cabinet decision agreeing to this, because it is such a major change in policy? From what I have read of the Minister of State's contribution, I cannot see the major basis for the shift in policy.

I am delighted to see co-decision being used in the European context whereby the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament come together. Could that be translated to the Irish situation whereby the Minister and the Oireachtas could decide on these matters? I say that because I and every Member of the Oireachtas receive numerous representations from non-nationals on residency, asylum status, visas and the litany of items being dealt with today. These people, who come to our clinics, are fine people who would contribute greatly to Irish society economically, socially and culturally. I am sure parliamentary questions are tabled regularly on behalf of these individuals and families. As a public representative, I am amazed at the quality of these people and the contribution they could make. It appears unreasonable barriers are put in their way. I am not getting replies about representations I make, apart from one liners that the matter is being dealt with. That could happen after six months or more and I must inquire again about the state of play, following which I receive a similar reply.

It is a common debate.

This is common to all Members of the Dáil, not just in the Dublin area but in Galway, where there are a number of non-nationals who want to contribute and become full members of Irish society. We must have a more warm hearted approach to the whole situation. It is too easy for people to become hard. Those of us who deal with asylum seekers are normal soft hearted Irish people, but because of the system which operates within the Department, they come across like part of an uncaring bureaucratic machine which is opposed to the positive integration of these people to society. I would like the Minister of State to address this issue.

I thank members for their positive response to the proposals.

Deputy Costello referred to the structural arrangements between the Parliament, Council and the Commission. It is significant that the democratic role of the Parliament is being increased in the co-decision procedure, which is welcome. Proposals made by the Commission will be presented to the Council and the Parliament at the same time. If the Parliament does not agree, the proposals will go back to the Commission and the Council for further consideration. There is a procedure involved in the co-decision process, a copy of which I will make available to members.

There are a number of stages whereby discussions take place. There is conciliation and negotiation, right up to a conciliation committee which meets if agreement cannot be reached. It is a very practical co-decision making process. I know from my previous brief in the Department of Labour that it works extremely well. If it were not so early in the morning, I might comment more on the Chairman's suggestion. The Oireachtas must approve everything. I am sure we would all agree that the co-decision process can always be improved upon.

On the issues raised by Deputy Costello, deportation policy in Ireland and the procedures used are set out in section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999. This sets out what the Minister must consider before a deportation order can be made. There is no evidence that asylum seekers are being removed from the State without being given ample opportunity to make an asylum claim. We all have sad stories about the deportation of people who have become part of the community. I do not think anyone can be unhappy about the rigorous procedures and humane approach taken by the present Minister in respect of deportation.

Deputy Costello also referred to holding centres for asylum seekers outside the EU. This was raised by Germany at a recent justice council. It did not get much support but its views, which need to be elaborated on, are being awaited. The Commission has been asked to carry out a study under the aegis of the Hague programme in consultation with the UNHCR and the question of human rights will be to the fore in these discussions.

Immigration policy at EU level on legal migration will deal with the procedures which will be used. It will not deal with the numbers of people who should be admitted. This will remain a matter for each individual state. Therefore, it is not an issue in that respect.

Deputy Murphy referred to one or two issues which were raised by Deputy McGrath, one of which dealt with family reunification. This is a humane issue. A European directive on family reunification was agreed in 2003. Ireland has not participated in this, nor has the UK, because of the common travel area considerations which are a major issue. Irish policy on family reunification is broadly in accordance with the directive and international practice generally. There are generous family reunification provisions in the Refugee Act 1996. The point made by Deputy McGrath is noted.

On the question of integration principles, these were adopted at a recent Council meeting which I attended. There are 11 principles, a copy of which can be made available to members. These have been agreed in Europe and include a dramatic two-way process of mutual accommodation by all immigrants and residents of member states and respect for the basic values of the EU. I will not go through all of them but I will make a copy available to members.

One of the interesting things that struck me at the Council meeting was the current difficulties in the Netherlands. Members will be aware of the assassination of a well-known journalist in that country. What came across was the failure of the Dutch Government, to which it admits, to deal with the integration of second generation immigrants, which is now proving to be a problem. It is a lesson from which Ireland can learn because the principle of integration will be a significant issue in our overall policy in the coming months and years.

Another question referred to customer service. I am sure we would all agree that customer service is not always good. However, in fairness to the officials in the Department, we must recognise that this was a massive wave which hit us in recent years. There were almost no staff involved a couple of years ago and a whole new system had to be put in place. Departmental staff have been absolutely stretched in having to deal with the problem. Consequently, it has been difficult for staff to respond to queries from Deputies, Senators and others. The Department is working to improve the service in terms of customer care. A major restructuring is taking place on the visa and citizenship side so that the Department can become more customer friendly in responding to public representatives. A number of years ago when the Department of Social and Family Affairs had huge problems, that Department put in place a very good system which now responds very effectively to Oireachtas Members' queries. I am assured that the strengthening of customer service will yield a positive outcome in the year ahead. I appreciate the officials' response in that respect. I know the Minister is particularly anxious to see that improved.

Who are the customers who are being served?

The main customers are ourselves, as representatives of the people, and the general public, including non-nationals and anyone else who finds it necessary to make inquiries or to try to have procedures expedited, or whatever the case may be.

We must have patience. Since coming into the Department I have become aware of the massive volume of work there. I did not realise how difficult and complex it was until I became involved in it. From receiving representations from Members of the Oireachtas on all sides I can appreciate how difficult it is for officials. A genuine effort is being made to improve the communications process. We will see the results of that in the coming months and year.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh asked why move to quality majority voting and referred to the question of national sovereignty. In the first instance, QMV gives a greater role to the European Parliament, where all parties are now represented. The issue must be covered by Irish Title IV options. We will have to come before the committee for approval to excuse any of those options. An important national democratic input will still apply. There has been an issue regarding qualified majority voting not being capable of giving an efficient decision-making process. Often, because of the absence of real democratic impact by the Department, there was not the kind of co-decision which is there now. There are many positive aspects to this and the Government is strongly committed to seeing it through. We appreciate the committee's interest in reaching agreement quickly.

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response to all the questions raised. That concludes our discussion on this subject. Is it agreed that there should be no further debate on the matter by Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann?

It is not agreed.

Question, "That there be no further debate on the matter by Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann" put and declared carried.

Is the draft report agreed subject to insertion of details regarading attendance and contributors to the discussion? Agreed.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and his officials for attending the meeting. We look forward to meeting him again on this very important topic in the not too distant future.

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