I welcome Mr. Michael Howard, Secretary General, Department of Defence, and his officials. I advise members that we will hear a presentation which will be followed by a question and answer session. I draw everyone's attention to the fact that while members of the joint committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee which cannot guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. Under the salient rulings of the Chair, members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members are aware that the reason the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, is not present is that a Cabinet meeting has been called. I call Mr. Howard to make his presentation.
Defence Forces Strategy Statement 2008-10: Discussion with Department of Defence.
Mr. Michael Howard
I thank the Chairman. The Minister has asked me to convey his apologies to the joint committee. As the Chairman said, there was an unscheduled Cabinet meeting which he had to attend. I am joined by Mr. Maurice Quinn, assistant secretary, and Mr. Pat Hogan, head of corporate services.
I welcome the opportunity to discuss the contents of the Department of Defence and Defence Forces strategy statement for 2008 to 2010. The main objective of the defence organisation has been to ensure we have flexible, modern defence forces with the capabilities to meet all roles assigned by the Government. The significant progress made, both at home and overseas, in developing and modernising the Defence Forces in recent years is widely acknowledged. The advances highlight the successful public sector reform agenda and have been achieved through the dedication of our staff, both civil and military.
The White Paper on Defence continues to provide the policy framework and development strategy. The review of implementation of the White Paper in 2007 outlined the significant progress made. The programme for Government covering the period 2007 to 2012 highlights the Government's continued commitment to defence and sets ambitious targets to be achieved during the period.
The prevailing economic climate has required decisive Government action in order to promote economic recovery. There will be a requirement for further Government action in the coming years. The defence organisation has played and will continue to play its part in contributing to economic recovery. The defence commitments in the programme for Government will be prioritised in the light of resource constraints. While the defence organisation will not be exempt from the challenges facing the entire public service in the coming years, it is well placed to meet these challenges. It has been an example of successful public sector reform. The professionalism, dedication and innovation of our personnel, both civil and military, mean the future remains positive, despite the current difficulties.
I will briefly take members through the most important points in the strategy statement. This is the first occasion the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have produced a single, integrated strategy statement which is a major step forward in our journey of reform. The first section of the strategy statement outlines the vision, mission statement and high level goals of the Department and the Defence Forces for the period from 2008 to 2010. The shared vision states: "In the period 2008-2010 we will continue to work to develop and sustain our vision of a defence organisation that formulates and implements effective policy, provides timely and accurate advice and is capable of deploying a modern, interoperable, sustainable force that can deliver flexible military capabilities at home and abroad". Our mission is: "To provide for the military defence of the State, contribute to national and international peace and security and fulfil all other roles assigned by Government". The four high level goals are: to provide for the defence of the State against armed aggression by maintaining and developing appropriate military capabilities; to contribute to on-island security and stability by providing, on request, aid to the civil power, aid to the civil authority and other emergency and non-emergency services; to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security through participation in approved UN-mandated peace support, crisis management and humanitarian relief operations; and to provide the best possible defence policy advice and military advice for the Minister in order to support management of all aspects of defence provision and facilitate planning for future needs.
Achieving the mission statement through the high level goals requires the development and maintenance of a broad range of capabilities, as well as the delivery of a variety of services and other outputs, both at home and overseas. It is our intention that this can be achieved through the civil and military elements of the organisation continuing to act together.
Section two deals with defence policy. Defence policy and its resourcing and implementation are grounded on a realistic and ongoing assessment of the defence and security environment. Many factors, both national and international, can influence the delivery of the defence mission, chief among which are defence and security situations at home and abroad. The strategy statement outlines the security and defence environmental analysis.
In regard to the domestic security situation, the threat level in respect of the domestic security environment is assessed as low. Dissident republican paramilitaries continue to pose a low level threat in terms of capability and intent. However, there is no intelligence or indication giving reasonable cause to foresee significant paramilitary action in the State. In addition, the assessment is that loyalist paramilitaries do not pose a security threat to the State. The direct threat to Ireland as a target of international terrorism is currently assessed as low. On the other hand, it is clear that Ireland could be used as a base by terrorist organisations. The asymmetric nature of the terrorist threat requires all security agencies to reflect on current counter-terrorism strategies and develop a fully integrated approach, both on the island and with international partners.
On the international security situation, the global security situation is becoming more interdependent, more complex and potentially unstable. This is resulting in a new and challenging security and defence environment. This is borne out by reports from the European Council and the United Nations, as quoted in the strategy statement. The primacy of the United Nations continues to be a cornerstone of Ireland's foreign policy. A commitment to collective security through the development of international organisations and regional co-operation is also a central element of that policy.
Ireland has been an active contributor to UN and UN-mandated peacekeeping and peace enforcement operations for more than 50 years. Our experience in these operations has enabled us to play an active part in the development of the European Security and Defence Policy, the so-called ESDP. Ireland participates, where appropriate on a case by case basis, in humanitarian and crisis management operations in military and civil areas, including ESDP operations. This participation is subject to the requirements of UN authorisation and Government and Dáil approval, the triple lock, and such participation is consistent with Ireland's policy of military neutrality.
In recent years, changes in the responses of the UN to conflict situations have increased the demands being made on troop contributing countries such as Ireland. The Defence Forces have enhanced their military capabilities accordingly and this enables them to participate effectively in UN Chapter VII peace enforcement missions.
An increasing element of Ireland's engagement in UN operations is the deployment of combined contingents with like-minded nations. UNMIL, the mission in Liberia, and UNIFIL II, the mission in Lebanon, are examples of this development and of the increasing need to co-operate with partners in our international peace support operations.
The ability of the European Union to contribute to peacekeeping and crisis management continues to be of primary importance to member states and is carried out within the context of ESDP. Ireland's participation in the development of ESDP is fully consistent with our policy of military neutrality and our commitment to international peace and security. It also enhances our position on the international stage as it is aimed primarily at conflict prevention, peacekeeping, humanitarian missions and crisis management.
The capacity of the Union to deploy military forces is but one element in the full range of policy instruments available to the EU. These include diplomatic, political, financial and economic instruments. Ireland continues to contribute efficiently and effectively to military and civil operations in the ESDP arena. We also aim to encourage and foster the ongoing development of EU-UN co-operation in humanitarian action, crisis management, peacekeeping and conflict prevention.
The Government is committed to continuing Ireland's participation in the development of ESDP under the Common Foreign and Security Policy. The deployment of the Defence Forces to the UN-mandated EUFOR mission to Chad and the Central African Republic is indicative of this continued commitment and highlights the important role of the EU in supporting UN-mandated peace support operations. The main overseas missions in which the Defence Forces are currently serving are in Chad, Kosovo and Bosnia Herzegovina.
Section three of the strategy statement outlines the programmes involved. The outputs and activities of the defence organisation are set out under four programmes. This programme-based approach is in line with the Government's focus on public service outputs and is reflected also in the annual output statements. The four programmes include contingent capabilities, on-island security and support to other agencies, international peace and security and defence policy, military advice and corporate support services. Outputs under each programme heading are reported on each year through the annual output statement.
I will now give a brief outline of the four programmes. The first concerns contingent capabilities. Defence provision is about preparing for and dealing with contingencies. The defence organisation must prepare and maintain the capability to respond to contingencies and threats, based on an assessment of the risks to the security of the State in its broadest sense. When not actually engaged in operations, the focus of the Defence Forces will be on training and preparation. The objective is to maintain an appropriate level of defence capability in light of the legitimacy of, and the necessity for, a military response to certain situations. This response must have regard to the current and prospective defence and security environment.
Capabilities are delivered by the Defence Forces, supported by appropriate investment in equipment, infrastructure and training. Personnel are a key resource. The challenge for the defence organisation is to ensure its human resource and corporate support systems, civil and military, provide personnel with the requisite supports as and when required. We must ensure the planning systems produce capabilities that are developed within an appropriate framework and have the appropriate equipment and infrastructure at the right time.
The second programme deals with on-island security and support to other agencies which involves the development and deployment of capabilities for aid to the civil power and aid to the civil authority operations. Typical outputs are cash and prisoner escorts, explosive ordnance disposal, ceremonial services, fishery protection patrols, ministerial air transport services and air ambulance flights. In addition, it encompasses preparing for and responding to industrial disputes in certain circumstances.
The third programme deals with international peace and security. I have already outlined the primacy Ireland attaches to the role of the UN in the maintenance of international peace and security. Under this programme, we will provide appropriate defence resources, including personnel, equipment, logistics support and funding, to fulfil Ireland's commitments to overseas peace support, crisis management and humanitarian operations under UN authority. We will also continue working proactively to advance national interests within the European Union, together with colleagues from the Department of Foreign Affairs,
In the area of policy and advice, the programme comprehends the work of civil and military personnel in the formulation of defence policy and military advice. It also includes the corporate support functions for the defence organisation and the support provided by the office of emergency planning to the Government task force on emergency planning. Clearly, the policy and advice functions feed directly back into the development and maintenance of capabilities as outlined above. This programme provides for the ongoing review of the defence and security environment and the provision of timely and relevant advice to the Minister and Government. The programme also provides for the preparation of a new White Paper on defence to cover the period 2011 to 2020.
The corporate and support services programme covers important issues such as the implementation of the Government decision to decentralise the Department and headquarters of the Defence Forces. It also commits us to providing an environment in which we get the best from our staff, value for money in defence expenditure and the reform of legislation and regulation as necessary.
There are many important cross-departmental dimensions to the work of the defence organisation. These interdependent relationships increasingly are being expressed in service level agreements and memoranda of understanding with other organisations. We will continue to develop this framework as appropriate. Ireland's contribution to international peace and security has been outlined in detail in sections 2 and 3 and we will continue to work very closely with the Department of Foreign Affairs in this area.
In implementing the strategy statement, the Department and Defence Forces are determined to work together and will continue to report annually to the Minister on progress through the Department of Defence and Defence Forces annual report. In addition, the Defence Forces annual output statement outlines the outputs produced for the previous year and the intended outputs for the coming year.
I believe our objectives, strategies and performance indicators are results focused and, in so far as they can be, specific. Our objectives, strategies and indicators are specified in greater detail in the annual business planning process in the civil and military branches of our organisation. Achieving the targets outlined in the strategy statement will require a concerted effort from all staff, both civil and military, in the organisation and we look forward to the future with appropriate confidence.
The organisation remains very forward looking. We have considerable momentum behind the change process and the task of departmental management under the guidance of the Minister is to maintain that momentum in an appropriate and proportionate way in the period ahead.
In the absence of the Minister and given there will be questions on political and departmental issues, it is up to the Chairman to draw the line, because the line of questioning would be different if the Minister, rather than the officials, were present. It makes it more difficult for all of us.
What has happened in the Defence Forces in the past ten years is a model of successful public sector reform. This has been achieved through co-operation between military and civil staff. Through the implementation of the White Paper, our Defence Forces have become very lean, well equipped and efficient. I have visited most of the Army barracks in the country and other Defence Forces centres and it is very obvious that they have become very efficient and well focused. We can continue that progress in the next White Paper and deliberations.
There is a lot more in the strategy statement than what Mr. Howard read out. I welcome him and his two colleagues. Today's statement is very much a watered-down version of the strategy statement we received. When was the strategy statement written? It strikes me that this document was written at a time before there were any cuts, before the present economic crisis.
Mr. Michael Howard
It was written immediately after the change of Government.
Things have changed since then.
Mr. Michael Howard
They have, yes.
Substantially. We are dealing with a document in totally different circumstances. In the document, Mr. Howard refers to several developments, for example, having 350 people in training at any one time. Since then there have been announcements that that has been postponed indefinitely. There are a number of other issues also. Should I refer to the strategy document or to Mr. Howard's statement today? Which would he prefer?
Mr. Michael Howard
I was going to say to Deputy Deenihan that I honestly do not see them as being irreconcilable, but other people might think that was a political answer. Obviously, the strategy statement was prepared some time ago. It sets out the direction in which we wish to travel and, subject to resource constraints, we will continue to travel in that direction. We will have to address the challenges ahead of us as they arise, but within the defence organisation we feel that we enter these current difficulties with a strong organisation. A lot has been invested in our capabilities and equipment. As of now, we still have an impressive infantry battalion deployed in Chad, which is the best equipped military force that Ireland has ever sent overseas. That is our current condition. With careful management we still have the resources to keep our most important priority areas, and priority development areas, resourced. The challenge for us as managers, which every public service manager must step up to in the current period, is how we can find clever ways of doing more with less.
I still regard our strategy statement as our governing document, subject to the fact that we must have regard for current constraints. It sets out the map we are following and we are still moving forward and making progress.
I thank Mr. Howard.
Can the member ask specific questions?
Absolutely, but I just wanted to clarify that.
It is just that we have time constraints and others will want to come in afterwards.
I did not realise that we had time constraints.
We have, unfortunately.
It is unfortunate that we are dealing with a document that is nearly two years old. I have a number of specific questions to pose and I will leave some to my colleagues as well. As regards aid to the civil power, in yesterday evening's news I heard the trade unions making threats of action, including strikes. In the event of essential services being affected, has Mr. Howard made plans for the Army to get involved, as it did before? What does Mr. Howard regard as essential services?
Fisheries protection is another issue that arises under the State's obligations as a member of the EU. At this stage, has it been decided to go ahead and improve our flotilla of eight ships by replacing one that is past its sell-by date? Deputy Brian O'Shea tells me that was his first question. Can Mr. Howard say if it has been decided or is that a political decision? As they say in naval terms, that vessel has outlived its useful life so is it planned to replace it? It is not only our fishing sector that is threatened. Let us face it, fishermen pose far less of a threat than those who are using our coastline to bring in huge drugs shipments. The Naval Service was involved in a drugs seizure off Cork before Christmas. Does that commitment to replace the vessel still stand or will it be affected by cutbacks?
As regards overseas service, I know the Chad deployment will now become a UN mission. Could cutbacks — current and as they unfold in the next two or three budgets — affect our participation in future missions? We have equipment in situ in Chad but it costs money to train soldiers. Due to our economic position, can we sustain our current level of commitment to UN peacekeeping missions?
The strategy outlines the ongoing policy of annual recruitment to maintain the strength of the Permanent Defence Force at 10,500. I understand that no recruitment has been advertised for this year and perhaps Mr. Howard will clarify that. If the number in the Permanent Defence Force cannot be kept at 10,500 will there be scope to support foreign missions, such as those of the UN and EUFOR?
According to Mr. Howard's statement, the commitment in the programme for Government is for a provision of up to 350 troops in training at any given time. That figure certainly cannot be achieved at this stage. The Minister clarified that at the end of last year.
Some progress has been made on decentralisation, but will Mr. Howard clarify whether the move to Naas has started? When will the move to the Curragh start? If there is movement to Naas and no Army movement to the Curragh, it will lead to logistical problems. At the moment, there is close military and departmental proximity. However, if it operates between Dublin and Naas, rather than the Curragh and Naas, it will pose logistical problems.
I referred to cross-departmental issues, although the Minister rubbished my comments. I did not issue a press release at the time, although he presumed I did. I mentioned in committee that I could see the Department of Defence, particularly the Army, playing an important role in physical fitness. The committee has allowed me to embark on the preparation of a report on fitness levels in the Army and how they could apply to the public. I will visit West Point in a few weeks' time to see how that military academy applies its programmes to education across America.
There should be some representative of the Department or the Defence Forces on the Irish Sports Council and on similar bodies involved in the promotion of physical fitness and health. Within the Army we have a core of qualified personnel, probably one of the largest concentrated group of experts we have. They are disciplined and must measure up to a particular level of fitness each year to retain their jobs. I see an opportunity for the Department of Defence in this area, but not necessarily going around the schools giving keep fit classes. However, it could, in some capacity, influence levels of fitness and set barometers for public fitness. I am aware the Secretary General is very keen on fitness and would like to hear his comments in this regard.
On planning for the 1916 commemoration ——
Has the Deputy many more questions?
Just two or three more. It is a pity we do not get much of a chance to discuss issues in this committee. We have a job to do, but we are under pressure to get through it quickly, which, with all due respects to the Chair, does not say much for the process. If we want to comment here, we should get the opportunity to say what we want without being rushed. I have just a few more questions. Although I could put more, I will leave some to my colleagues.
With regard to the 1916 commemoration, recently a group of us went to see the military archives in Cathal Brugha Barracks. There are approximately 300,000 thousand files there, many to do with people who applied for pensions, people who served in the War of Independence, in 1916 and in the Civil War. The files are very revealing and will be an important source for historians and researchers. Some of us could see from the files references to our ancestors who were involved in the War of Independence and so on. The files have not been available to historians and researchers of the period previously, but they are a rich resource. However, they are very poorly housed. Can the Secretary General advise us whether there is a plan to improve their housing and presentation? As we approach the 1916 commemoration, they will be an important source of information and there should be proper arrangements for their proper presentation.
A recent report in The Irish Times stated that last year the Defence Forces lost more than 135,000 days on sick leave, a considerable amount. After making inquiries, I discovered this leave only affects approximately 20% of the Defence Forces and that 80% do not take sick leave. The reason the figure for sick leave is so high is that medical care is not immediately available to personnel. It is obvious that they are more prone to injury than other professions because of the type of hazardous job they do and because they are do physical training in rough terrain. Sometimes they have to wait too long to see a specialist. Also, before they can return to work after an injury, they must appear before a medical board composed of two doctors. As we know, there are only 23 doctors attached to the Army. If one of the doctors on the board has examined the injured person previously, he or she cannot sit on the medical board. Therefore, it sometimes takes ages to arrange for a medical board for the person seeking to return to work and despite the fact that they want to return, they must stay on sick leave. What is the situation with regard to the Army medical corps? I am aware a consultant’s report is pending. What is the situation with regard to that report?
What is happening with regard to the Asgard? How many more surveys must we have to decide whether to raise it from the seabed? What recommendation was made by the Asgard board with regard to salvage in its report, which was leaked to the Irish Independent last Sunday? What is in that report?
Mr. Michael Howard
I will try and go through the questions as best I can. The first question related to the use of the Defence Forces in aid to the civil authority in the event of industrial disputes and whether there are plans in that regard. Any time the Defence Forces are deployed in such a situation, it is on foot of a request and by decision of Government. Currently, there are no requests. Therefore, no unusual or specific measures are being undertaken beyond the normal state of readiness of the Defence Forces. I point out in this context that although we have several separate programmes and objectives, which we have set before the committee, we have a single set of Forces who are used for all of the purposes, as appropriate, under the direction of Government. The Defence Forces are as ready as they normally are, no more and no less. We have no current requests, either warning orders or anything else, on hand. When or whether it is appropriate to use the Defence Forces is a matter that is decided by Government. The decision lies entirely in that domain.
The Deputy asked about fishery protection and ships. In this area of the Defence Forces the efforts of the Naval Service are sometimes not appreciated by people not familiar with the organisation. There has been incredible progress in the output of this area. It is acknowledged that a number of our ships are approaching the end of their service lives. Currently, on foot of a Government decision, we have a tender competition running. Our instructions are to run the tender competition and then come back to Government for a decision as to where to go. We are implementing the instruction, but must return to Government with costings when we have selected a bidder for a decision. Everybody is aware of the age of the vessels. I cannot say what the Government will decide, but 30 years is the approximate life span of a vessel, although the ships do not suddenly become unusable after 30 years and one day. There is, therefore, the potential for some flexibility. As things stand, we are implementing a Government decision to run a tender competition and must return to Government for guidance as to how to go beyond that.
The Deputy also asked about overseas missions and the possible effect Government cutbacks or the current economic situation might have on our capability. The unit we have deployed in Chad is the best equipped unit we have ever sent overseas and will continue to be so, because it is the first priority on our resources at all times. If the Deputy is asking about our future capacity to participate in missions, all I can say is that on the basis of the resources we currently have, we will be able to participate on similar missions in the future. I must give an emphatic "Yes" in that regard. The deployable capability of the Defence Forces is our first priority and on the current resourcing envelope, we will continue to be able to deploy well equipped and prepared units of the Defence Forces.
The Deputy also asked about the strength of the Defence Forces and the scope for recruitment. The current situation is that the strength of the Defence Forces is almost at 10,500, which is the maximum level. Whether there will be scope for recruitment during the year will very much depend on the personnel wastage rate from the Defence Forces. Past experience has been that in difficult economic circumstances, the numbers of people leaving the Defence Forces may slow down but we do not know this yet. This is the middle of February and we cannot predict now how many people or at what rate people will leave the Defence Forces during the current year. We will have to keep an eye on this and on our budgetary situation, and later in the year we will have to make a decision on whether there is scope for recruitment. The Minister spoke about the 350 people in training and clarified the issue in the past in response to parliamentary questions, and I will not comment further on it.
With regard to decentralisation, the Government's decision was that the Department of Defence would be decentralised to Newbridge and the Defence Forces would be decentralised to the Curragh. The building in Newbridge is under construction and we visited it earlier this week. We are assured by the builders that it will be completed by the end of the year. The Office of Public Works is handling the tendering of the building for the Defence Forces headquarters in the Curragh. It tells us that the completion date for the building will be 2010. The tender is in preparation and is expected to go ahead soon.
While it may not be ideal when one is building two buildings that they do not finish on the same day, we are confident that the period when some people will be in Dublin and others in Newbridge will be relatively short and we are confident that we will be able to overcome any difficulties that might arise, which will be purely transitional. In preparing for decentralisation we have also ensured that we will have senior military personnel and support staff in the building in Newbridge so there will be a military and civil presence in the Department's headquarters in Newbridge from the start. This will overcome any difficulties there may be with regard to liaison.
With regard to physical fitness levels, I agree the Defence Forces set an excellent example for people and the Defence Forces have made enormous progress during the past ten to 15 years in improving fitness levels and ensuring people take care of their health and fitness. The capacity of the Defence Forces in the first instance has to be dedicated to the training and preparation of military personnel. The only caveat is that I must be careful not to commit the Defence Forces to doing something that might interfere with their capacity to train their own personnel.
There is a constant effort in the Defence Forces through personnel serving in all areas to ensure that their training and fitness levels are managed. We have very highly qualified physical fitness instructors but the number of people we have is proportionate to the number of people in the Defence Forces. To what extent there would be a capacity to assist other people I would not like to state. I would not like to make a commitment that would have the Chief of Staff giving me a clip on the ear for writing a cheque he had to cash.
He must accept that members of the Defence Forces train and coach teams throughout the country.
Mr. Michael Howard
There is a genuine commitment on the part of members of the Defence Forces and they provide assistance in local communities and VECs in training and sports, and they are encouraged to do so. The only caveat is that the day job must take precedence.
People would allow me to state that in the pre-reform era the Defence Forces suffered a number of difficulties and shortcomings which they have made a real effort to overcome. However, it requires a constant effort to keep fitness levels where they are, which is where they should be.
Change of Government, change of policy.
Mr. Michael Howard
Obviously, that is not a matter for me.
With regard to sick leave, it is important to distinguish between medical care and medical review. There is an acknowledged problem with the Defence Forces medical corps. It has been extremely difficult to recruit doctors to serve in the medical corps. We have gone to some trouble to increase salary levels, which is never easy even in the best of times, without really solving the problem. We are told there are some professional reasons for this. Doctors find that dealing with the population of physically fit people in the Defence Forces is not always the best professional experience from a doctor's point of view, although other aspects of Defence Forces life are probably very rewarding and fulfilling.
Deputy Deenihan identified correctly that for the purpose of medical review one must be reviewed by doctors who have not treated one already and this can be a difficulty. With regard to access to medical care, we always make arrangements for this. The issue with regard to review raised by Deputy Deenihan is a slightly different one. We are conducting a significant review and have engaged outside consultants. We expect a report within the coming weeks which I expect will lead to a programme of change and reform. It will not be solved overnight and it will require a concerted effort over a period of time. I assure Deputy Deenihan that we accept there are difficulties and we are minded to deal with these. It will be a difficult issue to which we will have to give our attention for a long time but we will do so.
With regard to the level of sick leave in the Defence Forces, I wish to make a point in defence of Defence Forces personnel in case this is misunderstood. The physical fitness level one needs to do my job and the physical fitness level one needs to do a soldier's job are entirely different. Sometimes, the reason personnel in the Defence Forces have longer periods of sick leave is that, for example, if I am recovering from routine surgery such as appendectomy or a hernia operation I can return to work quickly because I have a sedentary occupation but a soldier might not be deemed fit to serve in Chad. This is something that people commenting on this issue might bear this in mind as when they compare sickness levels they may not be comparing like with like.
The position with regard to the Asgard II is with the Minister for decision. He stated that he expects to make a decision in the very near future and I do not feel I should comment further on this matter.
I also asked about the military archives.
Mr. Michael Howard
In regard to the military archives, we have a team of people getting the files ready. This project is being addressed. It is being brought forward under the leadership of the Department of the Taoiseach. The first part of this is the preparation of files and we have a team of archivists in Cathal Brugha Barracks who are in the process of going over the material. They are being helped by an advisory board of historians. It is intended to have a phased and planned release of this into the public domain. Consideration is being given to housing and displaying the archives and the expectation is that it will proceed in sequence. The first part is going over the files, reviewing them and preparing them for release and we will address the question of making provision for housing and displaying and having public access to them.
I welcome the Secretary General, Mr. Michael Howard, and Mr. Quinn and Mr. Hogan. I promise, even in the absence of the Minister and under privilege, I will not call the Secretary General a fanatic. I will confine myself to questions. Last week in the House, I asked the Minister whether the allowances of members of the Defence Forces — I instanced the overseas allowance received by members serving in Chad — will be subject to the pension levy. Will Mr. Howard clarify this with regard to the range of allowances?
Another issue raised by the strategy report is that the 70:30 ratio will be maintained between pay and non-pay. In the context of the cutbacks being made at present, will it be possible to maintain this ratio?
Previously, in the House I raised the issue of cyber warfare. I suggest that when the White Paper was written and when the strategy statement was being prepared, the full impact of what can happen through a cyber attack on a country was not fully realised. Recently, there was an incident where the Oireachtas e-mail system was substantially disabled because of representations made on a particular issue. In the context of the preparation of the new White Paper and ongoing operations, we need to be mindful of this and what is happening in this area. I understand from the Minister that protecting systems is left to individual Departments but I would expect the Department of Defence to be the lead Department in this area.
A point that surprised me in the reply to a parliamentary question last week was that there had been a substantial increase in the number of bogus calls in respect of suspected explosive objects between 2007 and 2008. Was there a reason for this? From where were the calls coming and what was motivating them?
The Secretary General referred to the threat posed by terrorism and the possibility that cells of international terrorist organisations could be setting up here. The issue of fund-raising also arises. I understand the military intelligence assessment identifies the risk as being low. Is it increasing and are there any trends noticeable in this regard?
On the question of strategy and the closure of barracks, is it the Department's policy to close more barracks over time? Four have closed recently. What exactly is happening in this regard?
I am somewhat despondent about the development of the Reserve Defence Force against the background of the apparent abandonment of the recruitment campaign and the fact that targets have not been met heretofore. This is a pity. I suggested to the Minister that there should be more interplay between the military and schools to present the Army as a career option, including a medical career option. This option could and should be presented in schools, particularly to young people reaching the stage at which they make up their minds on careers. I will not repeat points raised by Deputy Deenihan.
I have a concern about organised crime. I raised issues in this regard at Question Time last week. Is the Secretary General of the view, particularly in the context of obtaining new, modern vessels, the purchase of which seems to be drifting because of the cutbacks, that there is scope for more effective co-ordination between the military authorities, the civil authorities, the Garda and the Revenue Commissioners in intercepting illegal shipments to this country? I do not imply that every shipment should be intercepted. There have been some notable successes, on which I congratulate the military. The Minister indicated the interceptions were intelligence led. Is the Secretary General of the view that military intelligence could be usefully employed more often in intercepting shipments of illegal goods? As I stated in the Dáil last week, it has a well earned high reputation for quality. Drug trafficking is responsible for the main social problem plaguing Ireland and I would like to see further military involvement in supporting the civil power.
Deputy O'Shea referred to the Reserve Defence Force. There seem to be very few references, if any, to it in the strategy statement. It is stated, on page 24, that it is part of the programme for Government. That is just a statement of fact. There is a brief reference on page 20 but the strategy does not comment on how the Reserve Defence Force is being integrated with the Permanent Defence Force. What training is provided for its members? What are the financial and human resource implications? When dealing with Deputy O'Shea's question, will Mr. Howard expand on this aspect also?
Mr. Michael Howard
I will start with Deputy O'Shea's question on the overseas service allowance and give a very straight answer: we have asked the question ourselves and are awaiting clarification. I am not in a position to tell the Deputy one way or another.
I would appreciate it if I was informed of the outcome when clarification is received.
Mr. Michael Howard
I will undertake to do so.
The Deputy's second question was related to the pay to non-pay ratio and whether the existing ratio of 70:30 could be maintained in the current climate. We expect we will be able to maintain an appropriate split between the pay and non-pay elements. It tends to vary from one year to the next, depending on the scheduling of payments and procurement. If there is a drop by a couple of per cent in one year, it does not necessarily result in a problem for us. In the past five to seven years there has been a number of occasions on which the non-pay proportion exceeded 30%. We are approaching current circumstances from the point of view of having a well provided for organisation. We had the opportunity to invest considerably in buildings and facilities in Defence Forces' installations. We have also been able to benefit from a lot of modern equipment. While we are vigilant and very careful about maintaining the capital and equipment basis of the Defence Forces, in addition to its capability, there is always some flexibility from one year to the next.
The issue of cyber warfare is very broad and affects many more bodies than the defence organisation and the Department of Defence. The Department thinks frequently about IT security. It has diverted many resources and put much effort into this area and keeps the matter constantly under review.
With regard to the question in respect of the wider community, the relevant policy is one which affects all aspects of society. There are large parts of it in respect of which the defence organisation would not provide leadership. However, in our capacity as custodian of emergency planning under the guise of the Office of Emergency Planning, we are addressing the issue with all Departments. All Departments are represented on the emergency planning task force. This issue was discussed at the most recent meeting of the task force, at which the issues involved were brought to people's attention. The task force will continue to monitor them.
On the increased number of call outs concerning explosive ordnance disposal, we are aware there has been an increase in the number of call outs and the number of hoaxes. There has been something of a change in that the use of explosive ordnance for criminal purposes must be considered. We are simply responding to call outs. The Defence Forces are called to aid the civil power. We observe what is happening. Obviously, the investigation of hoax calls is a matter for the Garda.
The Deputy asked about terrorism but there are limits to what I can appropriately say. When I took on this job first, I was told that if anyone asked me about intelligence, I was simply to say nothing. However, we must do more than this. In response, I can say there is a need for us to be vigilant. In the first instance, the security and safety of the State are matters for the Garda Síochána. Policy should reflect the primacy of the civil power and everything the Defence Forces does is in support of this. There are, perhaps, reasons for us to be vigilant and no reasons for us to be sanguine. On the other hand, it is important that one has a sense of balance. There is a need to be prudent and vigilant but we would not want to do anything that would cause unnecessary panic or alarm. Sensible caution is required. While we reassure the public that the assessed threat is low, this does not imply the assessed threat is zero. We act accordingly. It is an area in which there must be good co-ordination and co-operation between the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces.
The Deputy also inquired about barrack closures. I am happy to say it is a policy matter decided by the Government. Regarding the closures announced recently, Defences Forces personnel are to be complimented on the way in which they have organised the move. Personnel have moved to their new locations where appropriate facilities have been provided. From that point of view the closures have been successfully implemented. The Chief of Staff intends to visit appropriate locations in the coming days to ensure everything needed has been provided. Overall, we see it as a project that has been successfully implemented.
A number of questions pertained to the role of the Reserve Defence Force, for which a separate reform implementation plan is being rolled out and implemented. We have achieved mixed results in implementing certain aspects of it. A pilot scheme to recruit personnel for the integrated reserve force did not prove as successful as we had hoped. There is a general difficulty that the Reserve Defence Force has to face that is common to many voluntary organisation, that, unfortunately, there has been a decline in the spirit of voluntarism in getting people to make the commitment to volunteer for community service. It is not particular to the Defence Forces but affects organisations across society. Currently, there is no bar on the recruitment of members of the Reserve Defence Force.
We mentioned the question of career guidance. There is a programme under which military personnel visit schools. Obviously, they cannot visit everywhere but if schools are interested in having somebody give a career guidance talk, members of the Defence Forces are normally happy to do so. It is a fulfilling career which has given many a great life chance. Many members of the Defence Forces do not serve for their entire lives because it is not that kind of work, but it has been a life-changing experience for many and offers good prospects. When asked to do so, the Defence Forces are often happy to promote it.
On the question of organised crime and drugs, the Naval Service co-operates as part of the joint task force with the Garda Síochána and the Revenue Commissioners. The level of intelligence co-operation and co-ordination is very good. The interceptions that take place are generally intelligence based. It is another area in which we act in aid of the civil power. There is an important policy principle at stake. The Defence Forces must be seen to be acting in response to a request from the civil power; that is the appropriate arrangement. There is good day-to-day liaison which is regarded by the participants as a successful example of inter-agency co-operation. Some of the intercepts that have taken place have been significant. Our commitment to the mission is exemplified by the fact that it is always given priority over whatever other missions are in hand. There would never be a situation where resources that were needed for this purpose would be diverted to another area. It is regarded as a high priority.
The Chairman also inquired about the Reserve Defence Force. The implementation plan is being rolled out. To be honest, certain aspects of the pilot scheme and the integrated reserve force, in particular, have not worked out as we intended and we have to make some revisions.
I welcome Mr. Howard and his colleagues. I compliment the Defence Forces on the level of professionalism they have shown both in overseas missions and at home. While I have a number of questions, I welcome the strategy statement.
The coastal forces and the Naval Service have been to the forefront in fighting smuggling and illegal fishing that affect coastal communities. In the current climate of resource constraints, is Mr. Howard happy with the equipment provided for coastal protection? Would he consider diverting resources from other areas to the Naval Service?
As regards Ireland being a base for international terrorism — the events of 11 September 2001, in addition to the the attacks on the UK mainland and in Spain in recent years, changed many things — do we move to a different level in terms of our security standing in the way America moves to amber or defcon? Is this something we need to consider in terms of our international standing and how our links with international security services work?
I noted with interest Mr. Howard's reference to the fact that the global security situation had become more interdependent, complex and potentially unstable. Is this something the European Union is considering in terms of the United States, Asia and other areas or does the European Union see it as an internal problem as a result of mass immigration within its borders?
In the current climate do we charge enough for armed escorts for cash deliveries to banks? If not, we should be.
Will Mr. Howard make reference to European battle groups? Do we have personnel training with such groups? What level of co-operation is there between the Defence Forces and battle groups across the European Union?
Coming from New Ross, County Wexford I must make a pitch in connection with the Asgard, as we built the very elegant tall ship, Dunbrody. We have the capability to rebuild it. It would be an interesting project for the Defence Forces and the Department of Finance in conjunction with FÁS. In the current climate when many are unemployed it would be a worthwhile project to work on one of the three great tall ships, the third being the Jeanie Johnston. From what I have heard of the salvage price, it appears we could build a ship. This is something we can consider.
I record my thanks to the air ambulance service because I would not be here without its intervention. Many years ago following a road traffic accident I was flown from Waterford Regional Hospital to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Dún Laoghaire. Sometimes people forget the hugely important role such services play.
Mr. Michael Howard
I appreciate especially the support from Deputy Connick and all members for the work of the Defence Forces. Having worked in the area for more than 20 years I often think the wider world does not always appreciate all of the things done.
We are very satisfied with resource levels in the Naval Service. A significant amount is being invested. Regardless of the longer term equipment issues, we have a fleet of eight Naval Service patrol vessels; therefore, there are no difficulties with the size of the fleet. We have to manage an investment programme in the years ahead that may challenge and stretch us a little but we are optimistic that we will be able to work our way through it. It is an area to which we give priority. The Naval Service is one part of the Defence Forces that in recent years has improved the level of efficiency in the way it uses resources. There are more patrol days with existing ships and it has shown that one does not always need to secure more assets to achieve a greater output. It has been especially successful in that regard.
Deputy Connick inquired about the issues that flow from international terrorism. On the protection of the public and the detection and prevention of crime, the Garda Síochána has primacy, although the Defence Forces have an important and complementary role to play. There is a clear and explicit understanding between them as to what their roles are. There is regular liaison between them. We are satisfied co-operation is good. Internationally, the Garda Síochana has its own arrangements through Interpol and the force does not fall within our remit. There are also facilities for exchange for information at EU level and all friendly states co-operate in this. There are limits to how much we can discuss that. We would like people to be assured we are vigilant. Because it is not necessary, we do not want people to have an exaggerated sense of threat. The threat assessment is low but we do not interpret that as meaning it is zero. We hope our responses are sensible and proportionate.
It was rightly pointed out that, in assessing the world around them, the EU and other players have identified several issues and that the world has changed in recent years. This has been reflected, for example, in the peace support operations we are required to undertake, which have changed a great deal. They have changed in two ways in that the nature of such operations has tended to become more complicated and difficult and their scale has also increased. However, we have changed our organisation to meet this.
I assure the committee that we are charging security companies the full price.
With regard to the battlegroups, we do not currently have anybody in training. We have a commitment that they will stand up again in 2011 and preparations will begin in advance of that. We have informal conversations with others about who might contribute to a second battlegroup but they have not been finalised.
The question of the future of the Asgard II is with the Minister and I am happy to leave it with him.
Will a cadet competition be held this year? Will the officers be taken out of the containers in Cathal Brugha barracks and placed in permanent accommodation?
Mr. Michael Howard
We have not taken a decision regarding the first question. With regard to the second question, the Minister may have answered that in reply to parliamentary questions and I am happy——
He did not.
Mr. Michael Howard
I will reply to the Deputy in writing regarding that question.
I thank Mr. Howard and his officials for attending. I am sorry I had to rush him at the end. I also thank the members for their contribution.