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Joint Committee on Public Petitions and the Ombudsmen díospóireacht -
Thursday, 18 Apr 2024

Public Petition on Lil Reds Legacy Sepsis Awareness Campaign: Engagement with the HSE (Resumed)

Public petition No. P00052/22 is on Lil Reds Legacy sepsis awareness campaign, on which we are engaging with different groups. We will resume our engagement with representatives from the Health Service Executive. Before we do so, I will explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses who are to give evidence from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts and may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. They are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or to otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in regard to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Before we hear from our witnesses, I propose we publish their opening statements on the committee's website. Is that agreed?

On behalf of the committee, I extend a warm welcome to Dr. Orla Healy, national clinical director for quality and patient safety, Dr. Michael O'Dwyer, national clinical lead for the sepsis programme, and Dr. Ciara Martin, national clinical adviser and group lead for children and young people, HSE. I also acknowledge and welcome the petitioners, Mr. Joe Hughes and Ms Karen Phoenix, who are unable to attend the meeting in person but are viewing proceedings online.

I suggest that each witness make an opening statement of approximately ten minutes, after which we will have questions and comments from members. Each member will have ten minutes, which should allow for a second round. I call Dr. Orla Healy to make her opening statement.

Dr. Orla Healy

I thank the Chair and members of the committee for the invitation to return to the Joint Committee on Public Petitions and the Ombudsmen. I express once again my sincere sympathy to the families of those patients who lost their lives to sepsis. I also express heartfelt thanks to the families who have advocated and acknowledge the important contributions made by Lil Red’s Legacy Campaign and other families who have assisted us in our work. I also thank the members of the committee for their attention to sepsis. We welcome the focus the committee has brought to this major cause of harm and the importance of raising awareness about the prevention and early detection of sepsis.

I will give an update on the progress made by the national clinical programme for sepsis since our attendance at the committee this time last year. As noted, I am joined by my colleagues Dr. Michael O'Dwyer, the national clinical lead for the sepsis programme in the HSE, and Dr. Ciara Martin, national clinical adviser and group lead for children and young people in the HSE.

Regarding updates on key priorities for the sepsis programmes since last we spoke, we have launched a public awareness campaign for sepsis. This campaign was launched on 7 March with radio advertisements on local and national radio, social media advertisements and media interviews with additional coverage. The campaign aims to increase knowledge around the signs and symptoms of sepsis, as recent research run by the HSE in advance of the public awareness programme identified that while people were aware of the word "sepsis", only 44% were aware of the signs and symptoms of sepsis. The research involved engaging with patient advocates to help inform the communications. The call to action encourages people to find out more information on the HSE website, and if they have symptoms, to ask the question "Could it be sepsis?" The campaign, which many members may have heard, is performing well. The radio ad is back on the air this week to align with the international paediatric sepsis awareness weeks. The Lil Red campaign has kindly agreed to participate in media events during these weeks in addition to other families who have experienced the devastation of losing a child to sepsis. Social media reach to date has been over 1.6 million across Facebook, Instagram and TikTok, and the social media ads will continue over the next few months. Since the campaign launched, the number of people visiting the HSE website each day has doubled, with 14,000 people accessing the information in the first four weeks of the campaign. We will evaluate the impact of the campaign to ensure its objectives are being achieved. This will also inform future campaigns.

Education and engagement with staff across our services are continuing. A campaign website was set up so that staff could access all the sepsis resources. Reminders were sent out on HSeLanD of mandatory training requirements to all staff. Staff newsletters, podcasts and webinars, which included stories on sepsis and interviews with staff from the clinical programme for sepsis, were published across multiple platforms. Two separate posters have been developed, one for adults, including maternity, and one for paediatrics, on the signs and symptoms of sepsis. These have been sent to GPs who are also directed to a patient information leaflet which is now available in ten languages.

An update of the paediatric early warning score, referred to as PEWS, to reflect updated sepsis guidance was completed and fully implemented across all paediatric hospitals and all hospitals that see children in June 2023. We identified the need to have PEWS trainers in regional and local hospitals where children attend. My colleague Dr. Ciara Martin and I are working with colleagues from Saolta University Health Care Group and Children's Health Ireland, CHI, to organise a national train the trainers’ day in the next couple of weeks to which each hospital will be invited to send two representatives.

In December 2023, a patient safety alert on sepsis was sent from the office of the chief clinical officer to all emergency departments which see children and all areas for unscheduled paediatric care to address the challenges of recognising and responding to sepsis in busy and overcrowded emergency settings. An additional patient safety supplement was sent to all healthcare services to provide further guidance regarding the importance of early recognition and treatment of sepsis.

Many safety and risk reduction initiatives were developed as a result of this information sharing. The sepsis programme is working with the national women and infants health programme to share expertise and provide guidance on improving awareness of sepsis in maternal care and women’s health services. Regular education sessions on the signs and symptoms of sepsis and the "Sepsis 6" bundle are conducted across all hospitals throughout the year, with audits to assess adherence to recommendations.

On the revision of clinical guidelines, the Society of Critical Care Medicine's surviving sepsis campaign has updated its international guidelines. This information provides important evidence and recommendations on the prescribing protocols for antibiotics and fluids in sepsis management. The sepsis programme has committed to adapting the sepsis tools used in acute hospitals to reflect these recommendations. This work will be completed this year. The full review of the national clinical guideline No. 26 will take place in 2025.

On resources for GPs and primary care healthcare staff, a quick reference guide for GPs on the recognition and treatment of sepsis in adults is currently in the final stages of review and will be implemented in the coming weeks. A quick reference guide for GPs on the recognition and treatment of sepsis in children is under development and will be ready for implementation in the first quarter of 2025. A project to commence integration of software to GP clinics to aid with sepsis awareness and management as a pilot is planned for later this year.

On sharing expertise, the eighth sepsis summit will take place in Dublin Castle on 3 September 2024. This year’s summit will have national and international experts and family advocates among those presenting. Public awareness champions and groups such as the Irish Sepsis Foundation and Lil Red’s Legacy Sepsis Awareness Campaign have been invited to the event and survivors of sepsis will be asked to speak at the summit.

The national sepsis report for 2022 was published in December 2023 and provides very important data on the care, management and outcomes for inpatient with sepsis in adult, maternity and paediatric populations.

On quality assurance on the recognition and management of sepsis, retrospective audits against the national clinical guideline for sepsis were undertaken in 2023 in adult, maternity and paediatric inpatient services. Key learnings from the audits are used to improve care in the early recognition and management of sepsis. An infographic outlining data from the national sepsis report for 2022 and findings in relation to audits undertaken across all acute hospitals was sent to hospital group CEOs and chief directors of nursing in February 2024. The purpose of the infographic is to create an awareness of the burden of sepsis on inpatients and the impact sepsis has on hospital capacity and flow. The audit findings have been consistent since 2018 and identify key areas for improvement, particularly around the use of the sepsis tools. The sepsis programme team has worked with the national centre for clinical audit to improve the audit tool used. This will be tested in the second quarter of 2024 and ready for implementation in the third quarter. The audits undertaken in 2024 will focus on the areas that require immediate improvement, as communicated to all hospital and hospital groups through the infographic, and will be reported back to all hospital executive teams with recommendations on how to improve compliance.

All acute hospitals have a deteriorating patient committee, which has oversight on the management of patients with sepsis. This committee reports to the CEO or general manager on an ongoing basis.

On our five-year strategic plan, the action on sepsis five-year strategy is now prepared and ready for consultation. The strategy outlines a five-year strategic programme of work from 2024 to 2029. This comprehensive strategy, grounded in Irish data and international best practice, is structured to tackle the challenges of sepsis management and prevention. The strategy sets out a range of HSE actions aligned to the six priority areas, namely, governance; preventing avoidable cases of sepsis; increasing awareness of sepsis among the public and health professionals; improving identification and treatment across the patient care pathway; improving support and care for sepsis survivors; and research for sepsis. A key priority of the strategy is to ensure that the changing structures of the health services are reflected in the delivery of these objectives. Part of the new structures will be the national quality patient safety unit reporting directly to the chief clinical officer. This unit will work closely with its counterparts in the new health regions and a key priority of this work will be assurance that robust governance arrangements are in place with responsibility for and oversight of the identification and management of sepsis, and that quality improvement processes are implemented and evaluated following audit and serious incident reviews.

I again express my heartfelt thanks to the families who have advocated and acknowledge the important contributions made by Lil Red’s Legacy Campaign and other families.

I thank Dr. Healy. It is only proper to acknowledge the efforts and progress made by the HSE and Lil Red’s Legacy Campaign in the 12 months since the HSE last appeared before us. It is a continuing fight and struggle to keep going.

I concur with the Chairman as regards the progress we have seen. This matter was raised several times with the committee. Most recently, we had good engagement in May last year when we said we would review progress in 12 months. This is the progress report, as it were. I appreciate Dr. Healy, Dr. O'Dwyer and Dr. Martin taking time to update the committee. An important aspect of our work, through the Lil Red campaign and others, is to highlight and raise awareness of sepsis. This committee has been dogged in its determination to make progress.

Having been critical last year of the pro forma nature of the way the HSE appeared to be treating sepsis awareness, I am impressed by what we have been told today. There has been a real step-change in the way sepsis is handled and how awareness of it is being managed. It is very positive and welcome. How many staff members are working on sepsis awareness in the HSE?

Dr. Orla Healy

I thank Deputy Devlin and again acknowledge the committee’s contribution. As the Deputy correctly said, the committee has been dogged and that focus has assisted us in our work. Sepsis awareness and the treatment and management of sepsis, either at a front-line clinical level or in clinical governance or wider executive governance, is everybody’s business within the HSE. That said, there are dedicated staff whose primary role is to cover sepsis. In every hospital group, there is a senior nurse who is dedicated to sepsis. At the start, this was an assistant director of nursing but it has since been upgraded to a director of nursing. They are assisted by other members of staff in their work.

At a national level, we have a dedicated programme for sepsis with a clinical lead and a programme manager, and other staff members in the quality improvement function of my own directorate who dedicate substantial time to the sepsis programme. The whole-time equivalent dedicated to sepsis varies according to the need and the level of work under way at a particular time. For instance, in recent months we have had a dedicated resource from the HSE communications department.

Okay. I would like get to the actual numbers. Apart from the time when there is a dedicated campaign running and you might have support from the communications office or other aspects of the HSE, do the directors of nursing in the hospitals have a role to play? Putting them aside, when we are talking about the national office and Dr. Healy's own team, how many are working on sepsis awareness in the HSE? How many people, or whole-time equivalents?

Dr. Orla Healy

I appreciate the Deputy would like to have those specific figures but it would do a disservice to the work being done by the entirety of the HSE staff on sepsis and sepsis awareness to limit it to that number who are exclusively dedicated to sepsis on a full-time basis. It would also do a disservice to the wider needs of the healthcare community and patients with regard to sepsis.

The reason I ask is that when I cast my mind back to our initial engagement - it may have been correspondence from the HSE - when we pressed it as to what the sepsis awareness campaign entailed, more than a year ago, what we were told was that there had been a spike in funding around 2019. I do not have the figures to hand. It consisted of a few posters and some conferences. Some leaflets were distributed across the country but nobody knew where exactly they went. I acknowledge that there has been a change. I certainly think it is much broader than it was. It seems more targeted and that there is much more education and training, everything that this committee and the campaigners have looked for over the years. It seems that it has now been actioned, which I fully appreciate and acknowledge here. Dr. Healy can appreciate that from our perspective, I get a little nervous when we cannot get whole-time equivalent numbers. I appreciate that if it is small, those individuals are doing a lot of work but it would be nice to have figures. Dr. Healy can perhaps come back to me on that.

The other element of it regards the resources that are there, and Dr. Healy spoke of the international element, which is welcome. However, more importantly for the staff in the health service, awareness of sepsis was quite low. That is from our engagement previously. If these training days, seminars and conferences and so on are being run, then obviously everybody is being educated about the risks. As Dr. Healy rightly said, campaigners, advocates and everybody in the sepsis space are also sharing their learning with healthcare professionals, which has to be of benefit ultimately to the patients, and that is what we want to achieve here.

Parking the employee element to one side, in terms of expenditure per annum now, what are we looking at with regard to a spend on sepsis, that is, on the overall campaign? That obviously excludes staff costs because we are not going to get those numbers, I take it. Therefore, we are not going to get the figures for staff. Let us exclude the staff costs. How much is the HSE spending now on sepsis awareness?

Dr. Orla Healy

I will come back to the Deputy with more detailed figures on the staff but I should say that in my own directorate, which is quality and patient safety, we have at any one time up to 60 staff working within that directorate. We work across education, assurance, enablement, incident management and policy development and that includes public awareness. We take a programmatic approach to the major causes of harm and we move from one cause of harm to the next.

That is understandable, yes.

Dr. Orla Healy

To dedicate the entirety on one cause of harm on a permanent basis would not be an efficient or appropriate use of resources.

I can appreciate that.

Dr. Orla Healy

Suffice to say that the resource required to meet the needs of the sepsis awareness campaign were dedicated to it.

On something Deputy Devlin said, are there any actual full-time employees in the HSE just dealing with sepsis or is it kind of everybody-----

Dr. Orla Healy

There are. It is the primary responsibility of the directors of nursing.

That is in each hospital?

Dr. Orla Healy

In each hospital.

Is the Chair talking about the national office?

Dr. Orla Healy

In the national office, we have the clinical programme. Dr. O'Dwyer here is the clinical lead for the programme, and we have a programme manager so there are dedicated sepsis resources. As sepsis is a cause of deterioration, we have combined the deteriorating patient programme and the sepsis programme as they are closely aligned. Yes, there is a dedicated resource.

We will return to the funding then.

Dr. Orla Healy

Returning to the funding, we were in the fortunate position of having been awarded a Sláintecare grant this year, and we are also in the fortunate position of having had sufficient funds to run a research project to inform the public awareness campaign, to run it on the basis of that research, and to evaluate the public awareness campaign. On foot of that, we will be making submissions for further funding on the basis of those findings.

On the actual figures and acknowledging the changes that have taken place, what was the funding? Let us go back. If Dr. Healy does not have it to hand, I appreciate that and she can come back with a note to the committee. What I would like to see is from 2018 through to the current day and I hope - and assume from what Dr. Healy is saying to the committee today - that there will have been an increase in funding allocated to sepsis awareness in the HSE, one-off grants excluded. It seems to me that more resources have been put into raising awareness of sepsis, which is important but I would say the figures speak for themselves. If Dr. Healy does not have them, I appreciate that and she can furnish the committee with them.

I am looking back at the April 2023 opening statement by the national clinical officer at the time, Dr. Colm Henry. There was discussion around the funding at that time, and it was quite low, to be honest. That is something that we, as a committee, were critical of. Dr. Healy might enlighten us a bit more. Does she have any figures to hand today?

Dr. Orla Healy

Certainly, hundreds of thousands of euro have been dedicated to the existing campaign from our existing budget. I can provide the Deputy with the precise figures on the cost of the leaflets and wider public awareness campaign. Certainly, the initial research was of the order of €200,000, and additional funding was added to that. That is not the totality.

I appreciate that. A year-on-year breakdown would be great for our own benefit. Even the strategic plan and everything that is taking place requires funding. We know that but it is just to try to ensure that there is funding behind it and that the funding has increased year on year.

I thank Dr. Healy for that opening statement and for the work that is being done both at a national and regional level. I would suggest that we might engage on this again as a committee-----

-----maybe by the end of the year, to follow the progress and hear of the various seminars, etc. that are being organised. We would like to see further progress on that.

Is Senator Murphy there? He had said he was going to be in and out because he had other meetings. Deputy Buckley can go ahead.

We always save the best for last.

That is why I am letting the Deputy in before me.

I thank the witnesses for their statements. We all have a massive interest in this. I also acknowledge Dr. Howlett, who is a senior parliamentary researcher. I got her to do a full research document on this to see what was happening and how we could change things. In fairness, a reply to a parliamentary question from May of last year noted that "the HSE established the National Sepsis Clinical Programme, with an assigned team to lead out on the objectives of the programme. The focus of the Programme is sepsis awareness to promote early recognition and evidence-based management". It goes on to note the focus of the initial work and lists some of the measures, to which the witnesses also referred. Some of these measures have already been rolled out, which is excellent. I must commend the witnesses. Sometimes in committees people attack the HSE. I am not going to do that. The fact is that this has been a very short period starting from a baseline and the HSE has made massive strides already. It has doubled the hits on its website in a short period. We have always said that awareness is education, and education is what saves lives.

I also welcome the train the trainers initiative. I heard that a long time ago in some other areas of the mental health system and it works. I can understand that the HSE does need to have these summits. In stated in the note that one is coming up on 3 September. Again, that is about sharing lived experiences and how people do things in other places. I was very interested in the New York State law. If we could mirror that in legislation, we could get into Irish law but is just too complex and complicated, so it is probably going to go to a different base.

I only have one question. As I said, this happened in such a short period. The committee heard an opening statement on this only a year and a half ago. To see something move so fast and be so progressive has to be commended. We do not have any evidence base for it but it has surely saved lives already. I know that more will be rolled out on ambulances. I have seen sepsis ones. Can the committee assist the HSE to progress this even further, whether through legislation, a policy document or a standardised document? Is there something we could do to help? This is moving so fast and we do not want it to slow down because, like many things in politics, it takes a long time to change.

This is a very positive story and I want to push it forward. I welcome the five-year plan. Some people outside these Houses would say five years is a long time. Five years is a long time in politics, maybe, but in the whole government structure, it is not a long time. I ask the witnesses to be frank and honest. Is there anything the committee can do to make the witnesses' lives easier and also the lives of those who, God forbid, contract sepsis? What can we do, as legislators, to make their lives a lot easier?

Dr. Orla Healy

I thank Deputy Buckley very much. I will give my colleagues a moment to prepare their wish lists.

They can take all the time they want.

Dr. Orla Healy

I again acknowledge Deputy Buckley's work and the focus the committee has brought to this important area. I also congratulate Dr. Howlett on the excellent paper Deputy Buckley commissioned. It is very balanced and provides the members, as legislators, with a very balanced approach and an international perspective on the legislative interventions that have been made and the limitations of existing evidence. I hope that document illustrated to members that many of the things that were mandated legislatively in New York were actually in place in this country for quite a while and that, given the constantly evolving nature of this area of clinical practice and the emergence of new evidence, legislation is often not the correct instrument to use for something like this. The support and focus the committee has given to this major cause of harm and the acknowledgement that sepsis is an international cause of harm and that not all of these cases can be prevented but we are all doing our best to prevent the preventable cases amount to important work.

I will defer to my colleagues if they want to add anything.

Dr. Michael O'Dwyer

I thank the committee for the attention it brings to sepsis. The fact that we come here and talk about it really focuses our group's attention on the task at hand. It brings extra resources to us. I do not think the public awareness campaign we have had over the last couple of months would have happened without the help of the committee in drawing attention to it. As a result of that, the whole team focuses on the outcomes and we try to close those circles and provide good results. It is important to state that when we talk about the legislative changes, we must be aware, as Dr, Healy said, that the changes the Staunton family brought to New York were brought about because of deficiencies in healthcare in that sector, whereas in Ireland many of the legislative changes they advocated are already present in the health service. It has some mixed effects, not all of which are good, to legislate for a particular medical condition when it is so variable between patients. Legislating for a specific treatment can have unintended bad consequences for some of those patients. It is important to bear that in mind.

It is important to bear in mind as well that sepsis has a high mortality rate. It has one of the highest causes of mortality globally. We should be aware that aiming for 0% mortality is not going to be achievable. With our rate of mortality in the low 20s in percentage terms, we certainly need to chip away at that to get the rate down but we need to be reasonable in our expectations as to what would happen. I thank the committee for the attention it brings to sepsis. That in itself has been very useful.

Dr. Ciara Martin

As my colleagues said, the committee has an important function as a vehicle that gives a voice to the families who are watching us today. I have a long shopping list for children and young people. We work in an annual budget environment. That is why it is important that we keep sepsis up there as topical and important. We certainly welcome discussions, awareness and all of that. My colleagues and I are continually working on this. We talked about education and training the trainers. We are working hard to improve staffing and infrastructure of high-dependence units for children and young people in our regional hospitals, for example. Wherever we can, we must understand the importance of getting this right, and I know the people in this room do because they have listened to the families and to what we have talked about previously.

I love the honesty. The Library and Research Service and Bills Office will be delighted with the witnesses. I agree it is about raising awareness but it is also about keeping sepsis on the agenda. That is why I asked the question about how we can help the witnesses. They are now gathering evidence as they move along. It is an evolving thing. I have always been a realist. We cannot save everybody, but there is a section of society that we possibly could save and that is what we strive to do. It is not about percentages, unfortunately. It is and it is not, if you know what I mean. That is why I asked that question. I like the fact that the Society of Critical Care Medicine in America and the European Society of Intensive Care Medicine are involved. This is not being done in a bubble. There is an awareness campaign and there has been collaboration.

We will keep it on the agenda if that will assist the HSE as our working together will assist everybody. It is a no-brainer, which is why I asked the question. I thank the HSE representatives for this. I am not normally stumped for words but I am today. Over the seven years I have been in here in committees and so on, it takes so long to take the first step. This has been a good news story arising from something that was so unfortunate. It has moved very fast, however, and this committee will work tirelessly with the HSE to keep it on the agenda in order that everybody can benefit from this. I thank the witnesses.

Before Deputy Devlin comes in, I wrote down that we might keep in regular contact with the HSE, maybe on a six-monthly or 12-monthly basis. Does Deputy Devlin want to come back in?

On that point, we might engage physically by the end of the year but we could look at some interim reporting whereby the Cathaoirleach can apprise the committee of the update. It may be done quarterly through correspondence and then, were a need to arise from that we might engage physically. Certainly, by the end of the year it would be good to get a snapshot of the full calendar year. Obviously, I await then the note on the costings year on year going back to 2018. I thank the Cathaoirleach and I thank the witnesses for their attendance.

In Senator Murphy's absence, I have a few questions. As has been noted, the petition itself started off as an attempt to raise awareness. I thank Ms Karen Phoenix, Mr. Joe Hughes and Lil Red's Legacy Sepsis Awareness Campaign, as well as the HSE. Is there any way to determine how successful it has been in the last nine to 12 months? Can the HSE see the big improvement?

Dr. Orla Healy

This is akin to a health promotion campaign. With any health promotion campaign, it is difficult to ascribe the changes to one particular intervention and it is also difficult to see in the short term. All that said, when we evaluate we look at structures, processes and outcomes. We will evaluate this public awareness campaign as it is completed to inform the next one. We should see the impact and some of the figures we have provided already with regard to website hits illustrate some very short-term process measures.

We will have further public research, focus groups and surveys to demonstrate the impact. The sepsis programme monitors the sepsis rates in the acute setting year on year and measurement is always a challenge. As a change in the figures can sometimes reflect better reporting and not necessarily a deterioration in performance, that has to be interpreted with caution. We would not expect a huge change in those rates over a short time. Would Dr. O'Dwyer like to add anything?

Dr. Michael O'Dwyer

The whole purpose of the campaign was to inform the public in order that they might seek treatment earlier. We know earlier treatment is associated with better outcomes and lives saved. The way the public awareness campaign will be assessed in terms of the research that comes as a package with the awareness campaign will be through term recognition. Were we to state that about half the people were aware of sepsis, we would go back after the campaign and see what proportion of the public is now aware of sepsis.

In reality, what we are looking to do is to show a decrease in mortality and that does not really come out in the figures we will look at immediately after the campaign. We get those mortality figures through the HIPE system and we will not get the numbers for a calendar year until six months after the calendar year. We will not see the numbers we are actually interested in until long after the public awareness campaign.

When we try to evaluate whether we go forward with this, we should consider it is quite complicated because there are unintended adverse outcomes and we do not want to be pushing people to emergency departments or to GPs thinking they are very unwell because they heard an advertisement when they actually are not. We will have to consider how we might take the totality of that evidence. The increase in recognition may result in an increased drive to the emergency department and we will have to consider whether we see better outcomes and what they are related to. It is going to be a highly complex process to try to figure out what, if anything, is working.

That was what I was going to ask next with the 44% awareness rate. What kind of a timeframe is the HSE talking about for the evaluation? How regularly will those evaluations be done?

Dr. Michael O'Dwyer

As far as I am aware, at the end of this burst of the radio campaign our researchers will come back in and do their market research. They then will present us with results within the next couple of weeks. Then we will have to sit down as a team and a group to discuss whether it was beneficial in terms of the outcomes we want to see. We will have to talk to our colleagues throughout hospital systems to see whether they are seeing any increased drive of patients to the hospitals and then try to make a decision and determination as to whether we would seek further funding for more of the radio - and potentially television - campaigns.

Is there a ring-fenced figure for the sepsis campaign to continue? If not, how much longer can we expect that campaign to run with the funding the HSE has?

Dr. Orla Healy

We have sufficient funding to run this phase of the campaign and to evaluate it. We will then submit for further funding. We have been fortunate to date in that we have been awarded funds as we have required them.

There is no guarantee that the HSE will get yearly funding to continue the sepsis campaign. That is one of the things we would be anxious about. On a six-month or 12-month period, if the HSE is having trouble finding the funding, we as legislators can try to put pressure on because we all agree it has been a success compared with the first time the HSE came in. That success is dependent on the funding for the radio and television ads being there the whole time. In general, given the pressure the health service is under, is there a worry that the sepsis campaign could go off the boil because of other serious things? Is there a guarantee in this regard? I compliment the HSE on all it has done for the past 12 months since it has come on board. Is there a fear that with the health service under pressure, this might not continue and that the recommendations of the audits will not be fully rolled out?

Dr. Orla Healy

I do not believe there is. Acknowledging the wider pressures of the health service, sepsis fits within those pressures and is affected by those pressures. The Cathaoirleach will see from the supplement that Dr. Martin and I worked on and issued an alert at the height of the winter pressures this year to highlight the impact of those pressures on front-line staff's ability to recognise sepsis. Does Dr. Martin have anything to add?

Dr. Ciara Martin

Sepsis will always be there and our clinical programme will be working continually. The fact we have permanent staff in all of our hospitals who are there to address sepsis, sepsis recognition and sepsis audit. It is very much part of medicine. We would love it to be so much part of medicine that one did not need to continually campaign and that everybody was aware, from family, GPs, doctors and nurses, etc.

We know that is continual work. I do not see it going off the agenda any time soon. I think much of the work we have done will make sure that it stays on the agenda.

Dr. Martin has answered the last question I was going to ask her, which was how long the HSE's current sepsis programme is going to run. She is confident that it will continue. Is a set number of hours per week dedicated to the sepsis programme or is it rolled into health itself?

Dr. Orla Healy

It is a major cause of harm within healthcare internationally and in this country. Everybody needs to be aware of sepsis in the delivery of healthcare. One way or another, every clinician is dedicated to sepsis as required. There are not a set number of hours for sepsis, from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m., and something else from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., for example. It is fully integrated in the delivery of healthcare.

That was my biggest fear. We need this to be fully integrated into care. That is brilliant. That is what I wanted to hear. It is not a burden or overcomplicated. It is now there as the commonsense approach. When patients come in, they are automatically checked in case it could be sepsis. That is what I meant by it being ingrained into the system. I thank the witnesses.

Can we work, as has been said already, to get a report on a six-monthly or even yearly basis to keep that pressure on with the Government? We understand the HSE needs the funding to continue these kinds of programmes. If we can do anything at all from our side that would help, we will. I thank Dr. Healy, Dr. O'Dwyer and Dr. Martin for coming in to speak to us today, and also the other guests. Karen Phoenix and Joe Hughes are looking in on this from home. I thank them for bringing this in front of the committee in the first place. That is where it has rolled on from. The discussion has been very beneficial and informative to the committee. We hope it opens doors so that we can stay in touch with each other. We will consider the next steps to open them up.

Sitting suspended at 2.52 p.m. and resumed at 3.05 p.m.
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