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Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 3 May 2023

Creating Our Future Report: Science Foundation Ireland

Our second engagement today is with Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, on its expert committee report, Creating Our Future: A National Conversation on Research in Ireland. As we know, there is a responsibility on the scientific community and scientists to engage with the public, ensuring that they outline the potential benefits of scientific discovery to society as a whole.

Scientific research data, whether large or small, and irrespective of discipline, should be findable, accessible, interoperable and reusable. This is an issue of equity on a global level. We as politicians working with science need to consider how to enshrine the right to knowledge and fundamental science regardless of what part of the world someone lives in and regardless of his or her education or background. Information and access to that information need to be treated just like a human right.

Rather than scientists setting the agenda on what research to perform, Science Foundation Ireland has turned things around by asking the public what research they would like to see happen. As a result of this engagement, the Creating Our Future report was published with the aim of starting a new direction of conversation on research in Ireland - that is by the public posing the research questions for the scientific community to answer. Many of the topics covered in the report are intersectional in nature and require co-operation across many Departments and other bodies in order to tackle the policy challenges raised.

This committee has taken a particular interest in the submissions and ideas raised on a number of topics in the Voices of Ireland section in the report. Subjects such as social inclusion in rural Ireland, fostering regional strength and valuing and connecting community are all cornerstones of the work of this joint committee. I welcome the innovative research methods employed by Science Foundation Ireland and endorse some of the calls for action, as recommended in the report. Of particular interest is the building of sustainable communities through effective connectivity with transport systems. It is clear from this report and the associated recommendations that further research will not only assist in better evidence-based decision-making for policymakers but also assist the Oireachtas in that process.

I welcome to today's meeting representatives from Science Foundation Ireland, Dr. Ciarán Seoighe, deputy director general; Ms Deirdre de Bhailís, manager of the Dingle Hub and member of Corca Dhuibhne-Dingle Peninsula 2030; and Dr. Karen Keaveney, assistant professor of rural development at UCD and researcher with the UCD centre for Irish towns. They are all very welcome here this morning.

Before we begin, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege, and the practice of the Houses with regard to references the witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity, by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if the witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that witnesses comply with any such direction.

I invite Dr. Seoighe to make his opening comments.

Dr. Ciarán Seoighe

I bid everyone a good morning. I thank members for the invitation to speak to the committee today about Creating Our Future. I am here representing Science Foundation Ireland but, more broadly, the Creating Our Future campaign, which everybody who has been involved with it is so passionate about and determined to bring forward some of the recommendations.

Creating Our Future is a campaign that was led by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Simon Harris, and his Department and operationalised by Science Foundation Ireland. It is a campaign where we really want to engage the community and the people of Ireland in a conversation about what it is they would like researchers to explore to create a better future for everyone.

Key to the campaign – our North Star – is that this needs to be an inclusive dialogue. Those words are very important to us. They set the tone of what we did and how we did it. It is relatively easy to engage with the same cohort of people and to engage in the same conversations, but it is really hard and exponentially more challenging to get to the people whom we do not normally engage with or talk to. This was important to us as part of the campaign.

It is a campaign that was inspired by what was done in other countries. Colleagues in Flanders, the Netherlands and other geographies around the world have done something similar, but we wanted a uniquely Irish campaign. To engage the Irish people more generally in the conversation, it took a much broader cohort than SFI or our own Department. We engaged an advisory committee, which included every Department, agency, lobby group, business group and interest groups from around the country to help us to get the information on the campaign out there. That worked incredibly well. The advisory committee increased the reach, but it also taught us a lot about the language we use, the way we engage, and how we make this accessible. The Cathaoirleach is correct in what he said in his opening remarks. The science is to be for everybody. It is more than science. This is research in the broader sense. What we see is the transdisciplinary nature of research as well. It has to be for everybody and by everybody. In fact, one of the terms that comes across quite a lot is the importance of what is called engaged research. That involves engaging with the people who might be the ultimate consumers, users and beneficiaries of that research.

The campaign itself, our North Star, was inclusive dialogue. What that meant was we wanted to have conversations with the public in Ireland. The conversations were between the researchers and the public. We wanted to have a real dialogue and to get to all walks of life. We saw that by engaging with our advisory forum, we increased the reach tenfold from what we would normally be able to engage in conversation through Science Foundation Ireland's normal channels. We increased the reach so much that we were able to have conversations with people we do not normally engage with. We ran a roadshow, which went to every county. We had a coffee truck and we went to every county in the country, sometimes multiple times. We went to all the universities and engaged in the conversation. We brought researchers into town halls, schools and scouts' dens throughout the country and they talked about what they were doing and engaged in dialogue. We were not doing a survey. This was not merely about going to the public and saying "Tell us what you want", but it was an informed dialogue and conversation.

We are delighted today to be joined today by two colleagues. As always in these discussions I am acutely conscious that I am the least interesting person in the room, because it is the colleagues who implement the recommendations and who are working with the public or doing the research who make this happen. They are the ones who get into the depth of the questions and explain what we have discovered.

We are joined by Ms Deirdre de Bhailís, who is the manager of the Dingle Hub, and Dr. Karen Keaveney, who is assistant professor of rural development at UCD and working with the UCD centre for Irish towns. These two colleagues know much more intimately the details of what it is the public are saying and what that means in the context of the work and research they are doing. They will be able to give us much more detail on what that means.

When we ran the campaign, at one point we were hoping to have about 10,000 submissions. We benchmarked against other international organisations which had done something similar, based on population. We have a very engaged public so we rapidly exceeded our target of 10,000 submissions and we ended up with more than 18,000 submissions in Ireland. No other geography has since exceeded that, irrespective of their population size. We have vastly more interest in this area from the Irish public than anybody else has achieved. In a way, that means we are beholden to make sure this is translated into real actions.

We are very grateful to the groups of people who assisted in the campaign. We were expecting to have 10,000 ideas to look at and we suddenly foisted them with 18,000 ideas and asked them to review them. We reviewed them using a cohort of approximately 70 or 80 academic colleagues and other experts, who undertook to read every single submission and analyse them. We did an artificial intelligence, machine learning type of review as well to understand what it meant. We also did a human-centric view to look at what people were saying and what that meant through the lenses of humans. Having looked at all of the ideas, the expert committees turned them into a series of recommendations and themes. What we want is these 18,000 ideas to be a book of inspiration for researchers who can look at it and say, "This is important to me. This is what I am hearing. This is my work. This is what it means." It can be something for policymakers. The reason we are here today is to say this is what the public are telling us. This is what their interest is, and we have a voice we can hear from. It is a real repository of information as well about Irish life and society.

We were looking through the submissions in the context of this committee in particular. There is quite a vast selection of submissions from communities around Ireland when we look at the kinds of things that have come up. We also submitted an 80-page document, including a shortlist of the ideas. Some of the issues that have come across in particular is how towns and cities are planned with stakeholders and public interest at heart; how to plan community infrastructure, in particular for dealing with the lonely, the elderly and teenagers; and how to have sustainable regional development, which connects into well-being and a sense of community and builds on the very Irish sense of community. There is a particular term that was used in the report that I am very fond of, which is the concept of the meitheal and how that relates to an Irish sense of community.

Other issues include the role of migrants in rural areas, and creating a sense of belonging; reimagining climate-friendly transport solutions and transportation and housing for local communities, which is something that came up repeatedly in the suggestions; building on our research leadership in technological areas and our innate sense of openness and strong sense of identity to support diverse communities; increasing the levels of stakeholder and community engagement in community, regional and rural development; and the role of the Irish language in today’s society. These came up through many submissions, there were hundreds of them in this area. They all related to the common themes of what it means, what has changed in the rural environment and what we can do to make it better.

What is also clear from the findings is that no one strand of research is going to solve all our problems. We need technological solutions and social sciences, the arts and humanities in order to arrive a transdisciplinary approach to how we are going to resolve these questions and provide a better future for everyone. We are delighted to have the opportunity to explain some of this. We are operationalising it in the context of the national challenge fund and other programmes that we run. However, we really do want to engage and welcome a conversation with the committee on what this means for policymakers, to explain the campaign and the findings from it and to deep dive into some of the work about which some of my colleagues can go into more detail. I am very happy to explain that, and to have further conversations on these matters. I thank the committee.

I ask Ms de Bhailís to make her opening contribution.

Ms Deirdre de Bhailís

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach as an gcuireadh a bheith páirteach sa chomhrá seo inniu. Is mise Deirdre de Bhailís, bainisteoir ginearálta Dingle Hub. I thank the committee for the opportunity to participate in this discussion.

I will start by giving a little background on Corca Dhuibhne, the Dingle Peninsula. Members are most likely all aware that it is a popular tourist destination. It has a population of almost 13,000, but we see visitors in excess of 1 million annually. Tourism accounts for 30% of the local economy, but much of our tourism product is low value. Farm to fork is undeveloped, and much of our agriculture product is not retained locally.

One of our starting points was to undertake an energy master plan for the peninsula, and this guided a lot of the work that we have been doing for the past number of years. It tells us that 54% of our energy use relates to transport and that 49% of our emissions relate to agriculture. From 2018, based on the quadruple helix model involving science, policy, industry and society, the Dingle Hub set about developing relationships and building collaborations in the areas of sustainability, the digital transformation and the creative industries. These three pillars were chosen to both build on inherent strengths and prior initiatives, and also because they are the key areas for the future.

What has emerged is an EU living laboratory, a place where we have built the ecosystem to enable test and trial projects, and a place where innovation can flourish. These projects engage the local community, schools, and the business, transport, tourism and farming sectors to explore and enable the broader societal changes required for the low-carbon transition, while also identifying employment opportunities to help create the conditions for a sustainable economic future for the area.

There are 18 projects in progress, with several already completed, and these include: electric vehicles; solar photovoltaic, PV, battery trials; the introduction of new Transport for Ireland Local Link bus services; a study of the feasibility of anaerobic digestion, which is a key circular economy enabler for the region; and the establishment of both farming and tourism and hospitality sustainable energy communities. There are a further five projects in the pipeline.

We are already seeing the establishment of new companies as a direct impact of involvement in the various projects that are under way. As these companies emerge, we leverage entrepreneurial and scaling services for them through working with the relevant agencies and networks. We are seeing that these companies are benefiting from access to knowledgeable, engaged groups to pilot their early-stage platforms. To date, the economic impact of the Dingle Hub is measured at 192 full-time equivalent incomes supported on the peninsula.

This work underpins the concept of scaling deep, as opposed to scaling up. This concept is defined by the Dingle Hub as a process of regional development by fusing enterprise, infrastructure and community development. With significant support from Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, in recent years, we have been able to work with academic partners MaREI, which is the SFI research centre for energy, climate and marine, to track, analyse and share experiential learnings with a view to informing policy and practice through our engaged research outputs.

Engaged research has been critical to our journey, because without it, how could we understand the dynamics of what is happening on the ground, and how to replicate the most impactful solutions? One of the submissions that resonated with me through the Creating our Future report was one which proposed that communities have a local scientist working in the local community centre, as part of a national network of community science to help address local problems. This is, in effect, what we have been doing in recent years. Enabling this at scale requires that funding bodies offer core funding to both the academic institution and also to the community groups to cover staff costs.

Our outcomes to date span everything from network building, capacity building and project delivery, to new business development and income creation. We have built a strong and vibrant network of over 500 connected, flexible workers, business owners, young people, farmers and members of the creative community who support each other and identify and pursue mutually-beneficial opportunities.

Táimid lonnaithe i gceantar Gaeltachta agus tá an Ghaelainn lárnach inár n-obair ar fad. Mar atá luaite i gceann de na treoracha chun gnímh, feicim an Ghaeilge á cur chun cinn mar theanga bheo go laethúil inár dtionscadail éagsúla agus le cliaint an mhoil freisin. Feicim suim mhór ag daoine an teanga a fhoghlaim agus a úsáid. Tá sé sin an-dóchasach do thodhchaí na teanga.

We continue to build on this strong foundation to layer integrated, ongoing initiatives, that will deliver long-term impact for our community. We have learned from this work that sub-county structures must be those that support communities and organisations at a very local level, to help provide this level of agency and empowerment to communities.

I ask Dr. Keaveney to give her opening statement.

Dr. Karen Keaveney

I thank the Cathaoirleach and the committee for the invitation this morning. I am Dr. Karen Keaveney, and I am an assistant professor of rural development in the University College Dublin, UCD school of agriculture and food science, and a founding member of the UCD Centre for Irish Towns. I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on and discuss with members the findings of Creating our Future which are pertinent to this commitment.

Based on my own experiences as a rural geographer and planner, and on the calls in Creating our Future, I would like to highlight three key principles. These are the need to establish a strong evidence basis for policy and decision-making in rural places; recognition that there is innovation in community engagement; and that there is, and should be, benefit from the research we do in universities for policy and communities. All of these three points are underpinned by taking a place-based approach which has people at its centre, where we work from the bottom up through partnership and collaboration.

The approach called for in Creating our Future, and the research that we do in UCD rural development and the UCD Centre for Irish Towns, is framed around these key issues. We are passionate about the role that towns can play in the sustainable development of their rural localities. Although we come from a range of disciplines, what holds us together is that community and citizens are placed at the centre of our research. We work with communities to design research, so that there is a positive legacy from projects. This ensures benefits which outlive projects and which can inform policy. Our approach is around the idea of coming together to address issues which matter to people and places. It is a contemporary meitheal, in some sense, which sees partnership between third level researchers and communities in various localities.

In our work, we have identified the need for strong evidence to support decision-making. For example, in the Irish Research Council, IRC Collaborative Alliances for Societal Challenges, COALESCE-funded project, Citizen Rural - which is based in County Roscommon - we are exploring what data is important to understand the dynamics of a changing rural Ireland, and how citizens can use and engage with this data in an accessible way. This project involved our local partners, Roscommon LEADER partnership and Roscommon County Council, together with the Department of Rural and Community Development, from the beginning in the design stage. That really was crucial.

Central also to my own research, and to that of my colleagues, is that there are innovative ways of engaging communities that need to be recognised. In the GeoWestCoast project, funded by IRC New Foundations, we documented the ways in which three west coast communities created plans for their villages.

This was in Cromane and Asdee in County Kerry and Mulranny in County Mayo. It captured and facilitated peer learning for the communities. We have developed an online resource that can be used by other communities to learn more about community planning and geodesign. As one of the participants said during interviews, "By doing a community-led plan, we are now taken seriously by the county council and have evidence to make informed submissions and to apply for funding for projects in the village." Sharing these stories and experiences is the responsibility of academics so that we can facilitate wider benefits to community groups and other interested groups.

Listening to people reflecting on successes and failures, learning from each other and understanding that each rural place, village and town is different and has its own strengths are what community development is about. For me and my colleagues in UCD, rural research is about embodying the philosophy of rural community development, which is about taking a place-based approach in partnership with communities and policymakers and understanding opportunities and challenges from the bottom up. This is strongly reflected in the citizen-led call in Creating Our Future.

I thank Dr. Keaveney and the other guests for their submissions to the committee this morning.

I will start with Dr. Seoighe and where we should go from here. Science Foundation Ireland representatives have gone around the country and engaged with the public. The public have made submissions, and these submissions are now in a nice, glossy report. Many such reports end up sitting on desks and that is it. The witnesses are appearing before the various committees highlighting aspects relevant to those committees. How do they envisage incorporating the findings into the work programmes of committees and the whole political agenda? How do they envisage the output of the report feeding into research and supporting the evidence-based decision process within government and in the Parliament? Could Dr. Seoighe comment on that?

Dr. Ciarán Seoighe

I am happy to do so. The first part of the question was on how we envisage the report's findings becoming part of policy. As the Cathaoirleach suggested, that is one of the reasons we are here and talking to policymakers. We have an obligation to faithfully represent the voice of the public. That there were 18,000 submissions means the process really meant a lot to people, so we have to represent their voice and reflect it in these conversations. It is already beginning to be reflected in changes to Government strategy and policy. Creating Our Future is already part of Impact 2030. Impact 2030 is the national strategy for research and innovation. Listening to the voice of the public was built into it. It is also built into Science Foundation Ireland programmes and our national challenge fund. It is a matter of recognising that, in meeting national challenges, we can set missions and goals based on what people tell us and then determine how to solve the problems from a top-down perspective. It is about continuing to have conversations with other policymakers. One of the great advantages in Ireland is that there is a small degree of separation between the public, researchers and policymakers. Our job is to help translate between them and make things real and accessible so what the people told us will be understood.

Very often when doing the roadshows – I did many of them personally – the conversation initially was almost one characterised by scepticism. When people were asked what they wanted the researchers to investigate, they would look at you a little strangely at first, but after a while, as the conversation evolved, they would say that what was happening was fantastic. They saw it as the Government of Ireland asking them what they would like researchers to do and what problems they would like solved. They often asked the same question the Cathaoirleach asked, that is, what we were going to do with the feedback. We promised we would take it to the committee, publish it and build it into our national strategies. In response to the second part of the Cathaoirleach's question, we do need to build the feedback into the research as well.

We are engaging with all our universities. We have made sure that all 18,000 ideas are accessible to everybody and fully transparent and available. We encourage researchers and academics to consider the 18,000 submissions in light of their own ideas on what they are already doing and also to inspire future research directions so people will say this is important to people. I would not underestimate the power of what the public is saying to inspire a researcher to solve a particular problem. Without that voice, and if it had not been put forward, circumstances would be different. We do not necessarily direct where the research should go and do not necessarily inspire researchers to go in certain directions. That is what this is about. It is a book of inspiration for researchers. It is about us, as funders and policymakers, creating and enabling opportunities and continuing to drive forward the conversation, faithfully representing the voice of the public, which we will continue to do.

Dr. Seoighe is right that the report is a book of inspiration. Often in this country, we look at the glass as empty rather than half full and find what is wrong with things. This is actually a consultation indicating where we want to go. It is about a book of ideas on where we would like to get to.

May I make a suggestion to the delegates on communicating with the public on this matter? They have done a good job to date. There is very strong loyalty to county boundaries in this country and at meetings of this committee. Particularly as we enter the summer months, we are very lucky to have very strong local media, including community and local radio stations and local newspapers. This is probably unique in the world. It is possible to segregate the ideas that have come from different counties. Doing so and providing a narrative along with the ideas would be of great benefit to community and local radio stations and other local media in that they could present to local communities what they have come forward with. Not only would we be inspiring researchers but we would also be inspiring local communities.

In this regard, I wish to refer to the work Dr. Keaveney has been doing with the three west-coast communities and the tool she has now developed. Several years ago in County Roscommon, we established town teams. We went to individual towns, through the local authority, and the chief executive at the time, Mr. Tony Ryan, was the inspiration. We examined the unique characteristics of each town, including the positives and what we would like to improve. In Boyle, people wanted to deal with the eyesore that was the Royal Hotel. In Castlerea, it was a matter of developing food businesses. Different towns examined issues unique to them. This ultimately led to the establishment of the rural regeneration fund across the country and the culture of bottom-up production of the best ideas.

How does Dr. Keaveney believe the concept she has developed with three communities can be rolled out around the country, taking the ideas coming from Creating Our Future and the tools being developed by our academic researchers and using them to allow communities to come up with a blueprint? Dr. Keaveney is correct that it is the communities that are looking for funding for local initiatives. The reason for the rural regeneration fund was that everything came from the top down before it. Every town and village in the country had the same lamp posts, seating, footpaths and kerbing, because that was what the grants were for. Everyone was shopping around for grants rather than what was in the best interest of the local community. We have turned this on its head. If the tool in question were made available to more communities, and they were conscious of it and able to utilise it, it would help to stimulate at local level what is now happening at national level through Creating Our Future. Could Dr. Keaveney comment on that?

Dr. Karen Keaveney

I can see what the Chair is saying. In the exercise he carried out in Boyle and, say, Castlerea, he really picked up on the view that you had to look at a place. There is no one rural area or town, and we know that rural areas and towns are incredibly diverse and becoming more so.

There is no one blueprint. It must come from the bottom up. It must be community-led. Part of what is required is strong expert facilitation. For example, in the geo west-coast project, one of my colleagues from the centre for Irish towns facilitated the exercise in Mulranny. There were expert consultants working in Cromane and Asdee in County Kerry who understood the process. In many ways, what needs to be rolled out more than anything else is a robust methodology so that people know there is something they can follow but it has to be adapted to each place. That means it is complicated and is not necessarily the easiest to roll out because it must be adaptable for every place. However, people need to be provided with a framework. We developed an online tool in conjunction with the three community groups and the three local development companies. They were vital to its development. We told that story. I would like it if another community could see that link and say that it could apply an element of our approach and use some of our tools but there must be a different plan for every place. That requires resources. However, there is potential, through the LEADER programme or the rural regeneration fund that has been mentioned. In a funny sense, the villages I worked with needed a relatively small pot of money to get started but it was about letting them buy in the expert facilitation. As one part of that project, we did a peer exchange. Everybody came together and learned from each other. Universities are in a good position to facilitate that kind of peer learning and that would be another important step. I always stress that bottom up, place based and in partnership are key to everything to do with rural planing and rural development.

It comes back to meitheal, which came through in this report. Fifty or 60 years ago, every town did not do the same things. Ballaghaderreen had its bacon factory. Different towns specialised in different industries and areas, and those skills were unique to those towns. Some of them are market towns and others are industrial towns and so forth. Building on what they are good at and their natural resources is the way to go. For example, tourism is paramount in Boyle. In Castlerea, it is food. SFI is engaging with communities. In the Dingle Peninsula, that approach was applied at a local level. SFI was ahead of the curve not just in terms of the hub but in respect of the innovation it is driving in agriculture. It is not just innovative from an Irish perspective but from a global perspective in the scale and type of work it is doing in respect of connected farms and so forth. Where does SFI see that mix of technology and farming going to meet the unique climate challenges we have in Ireland? I know SFI has been very involved in the whole area of nutrient management in Dingle. That is probably the single biggest issue here in Ireland. It is the single biggest challenge we have from a climate perspective and also from the perspective of sustainable agriculture and sustainable communities. Our guests might comment on that.

Ireland as a country is a net exporter of food because we do not have the numbers of people here to consume all the food we produce. Dingle, however, is unique in that it has the numbers of people to consume the local food and if there was ever a location that could develop a network from the farm to the fork to the restaurant table, and which could be a template for other parts of the country, it has to be that peninsula. Is there any work ongoing to develop a whole life cycle in that regard, including the retailers and restaurateurs, marketing it to tourists and consumers, and involving farm production that specifically produces products that will be consumed locally rather than being produced for processing?

On a related matter, I ask the witnesses to speak about the scaling deep concept, which is unique. From a policy perspective, how can the committee develop that concept across the portfolio of rural and community development initially as a template? It would be great to see it running across government. In that context, how do they envisage taking it from what is happening locally? This is an area on which the committee is about to carry out work. How can their experience feed into developing a national policy on this point? My apologies; I know I have asked very simple questions.

Ms Deirdre de Bhailís

I will start at the start. It began with an invitation to the local community to speak to us about the challenges it faced. We set out an invitation to all sectors. Farmers were among the first to engage with us. We began to develop an understanding of some of the challenges they were facing and then, with the teams in MaREI, set about exploring what solutions are available. That led to a number of EU projects on the peninsula. Initially, there was the short supply chains knowledge and innovation network, SKIN, projects, which very much looked at diversification on farms, agrifood, agritourism businesses and what was possible out of that. At the same time, we were exploring technology with farmers. We considered how sensor-based technologies could support grassland management on farms to minimise inputs and labour and reduce costs, with the environmental, economic and social benefits of that. Those projects then combined to a second EU-funded Horizon 2020 project, entitled Ploutus, which is ongoing. It has sensor technologies in 30 farms on the peninsula. That is bringing together a suite of data to allow farmers to make informed decisions on grassland management on their farms. It is an exploratory process. We have sensors, including weather station sensors, on farms. We have put the sensors to the test in west Kerry. They worked very well in Greece initially but when they are put on mountains in west Kerry, there are issues. We troubleshoot those issues as a team. It is co-creation at its best. The farmers feed back that, for example, they definitely did not have 6 ft. of rainfall on their land on a particular day and the sensor data are a result of the way the wind was blowing the rain. It is about working through those issues together. We one can now pull in a suite of measurements and provide grass growth prediction model for the farmers. That is valuable information for them in the context of planning to use their grass. It is about efficiency on that side.

The other part of the project related to looking at diversification for the future and the opportunities in that regard, such as through agrifood and agritourism businesses. There are many challenges in the context of farm to fork. There is only one butcher left on the peninsula and there is no abattoir. It is quite difficult. We have a farming system that encourages the production of food for export and that is exactly what is happening. The Cathaoirleach is correct. As I stated, we have wonderful restaurants and a wonderful food reputation and more than 1 million visitors, so why is all our food leaving the peninsula? Trying to get it back is almost like trying to reverse the Titanic. There are many people active locally, however. The Bia Dingle group emerged from the EU SKIN project, for example. It now has a brand and a network for sustainable food, bringing in all the local producers. The work at the moment is about developing and encouraging relationships between the tourism and hospitality sector and the agricultural sector. It is simple logistical things.

I have been in meetings at 8 o'clock in the evening with 30 farmers in a room, but the farmers are talking to other farmers, and then at 10.30 in the morning, the hospitality businesspeople are talking to each other. It is a case of never the twain shall meet. Therefore, it is about finding the ways to bring those together. We have some very progressive people in both sectors who are really coming together now to try to make this work. Let us get three to four strong examples up and running and showcase them to show how it works from an economic perspective, which it absolutely must do, but also from an environmental perspective, and then lead the way on it. That is the approach we are taking at the moment on the farm to fork strategy.

One solution to which we keep coming back for the peninsula is the development of biogas and anaerobic digestion as a key circular economy enabler. If the farmers were to slaughter their animals for use in the restaurants in Dingle, it could digest the offal for them. For the smaller farms, an additional income stream could be provided to produce the grass. If that grass is being managed using the sensor technology, it is being managed in a sustainable way that is not driving intensification just to produce grass for an anaerobic digester. It can also take in slurry so there is a direct impact on those emissions. We know from our plans that unless we tackle those emissions, we are not going to meet our targets at all on the peninsula. The percentages are just too high. Therefore, it does all that but then on the other side, we will look at the best option for the outputs of an anaerobic digester. We are very far away from the grid infrastructure but we have a very high demand for transport fuel. The West Kerry Dairy Farmers' Sustainable Energy Community came together to do an energy master plan for themselves and realised they were spending nearly €1 million on subvented agri-diesel per annum, and that was not even including the contractor machinery. There is, therefore, a huge market for transport fuel. That makes the most sense for us on the peninsula and that is very circular. A digester would also produce digestate, which could be put back on the land to grow the grass.

There is another aspect to it. As we develop the relationships with the researchers, Professor Jerry Murphy in MaREI is looking at microalgae upgrading of the gas as well. We get very high-quality biomethane out of it for transport fuel but we also get a by-product in the form of CO2-rich microalgae, which I am told is quite a valuable product. MaREI has been awarded funding by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, to investigate that with the oyster hatchery on the Maharees on the Dingle peninsula over the next three years. It is still at the research phase but it is about all the conversations it generates locally. That builds understanding and it builds capacity, capability and forward thinking in the area. That is what the engaged research does for us there.

I am trying to make sure I am capturing everything here. I mentioned the farm to fork strategy and nutrient management plans. The Chairman asked about the scaling deep concept. This is an emerging concept we have. As we take a look around us, we might ask what is happening here. As I said, we have this living laboratory of all of these projects under way in the areas of energy, agrifood and all of that. What is emerging is that we have a number of businesses. I will take, for example, a local domestic electrical contractor in 2019 when there was a project with Electric Ireland and ESB Networks to install 20 batteries and solar photovoltaic, PV, panels in Ballyferriter. The German battery manufacturer was insisting that it install the batteries so it could stand over the quality. In that meeting, we said there is nothing in that for the community and queried how the community was going to benefit from this. With much back and forth, we got the German manufacturer to agree to go out to tender for the installation. It went out to tender and a local domestic electrical contractor won the contract and was trained by the battery manufacturers. That contractor had the conversations with the teams from Electric Ireland and ESB Networks, saw the direction of travel and established a new solar PV installation company that deals with battery installation and electric vehicle chargers. That company has since gone from two workers to six, which was the last count I heard. Its client base extended first to the rest of counties Kerry, Cork and Limerick and is now all up along the Wild Atlantic Way.

It has gone national. It is really in the right place at the right time and hearing the right conversations. That has been replicated by three or four other businesses since. That is where we are going with the scale. We are looking towards the challenges of the future. The research has to be so central to doing that, so that we are guided in the right way to understand what the potential solutions are. We work with the community to understand those and then the businesses can emerge from being part of the early stage projects and ecosystems. When we defined it as a fusing of enterprise infrastructure and community development, the infrastructure piece of it is that we are now a sustainable mobility pathfinder project for rural areas, to try to get that suite of integrated solutions. It is about working with Local Link Kerry and the NTA to get the bus services in that we need. It is about understanding what is needed in the community and working with the agencies to bring them in.

Early on, we realised we could not just go out and speak to the community about sustainability. People have too many pressing needs or competing needs so we must take a holistic approach. Transport is one that works very well because everyone wants to get from A to B. We can do that. When we layer in the development of enterprise or the potential for new companies, people engage in a whole other way. They see that there could be something in this for them in the future. I hope that addresses the questions.

In a nutshell, what Ms de Bhailís is saying is that she is the meat in the middle of the two initiatives that Dr. Keaveney and Dr. Seoighe have been involved in. Creating Our Future is the national one and there is a local one that has taken place with the three villages, yet there is an opportunity there in that regard.

I have seen it in terms of retrofitting. We had the Society of St. Vincent de Paul in earlier this morning. There is a 24-month waiting list now for the retrofitting of homes of people in acute poverty. A big part of the problem is getting contractors. Much of the deficit is in rural communities more so than in urban communities, although there are plenty of contractors located in rural areas who travel to Dublin, Galway and Cork to get employment, while there is all this potential employment locally for them. They could be servicing not only their own community but regions across the country.

I thank the witnesses for their evidence this morning. I suggest that they would take away a copy of the committee's work programme, which is reviewed on an annual basis. We will be looking at it again towards the end of this year. I ask them to look and see how the concepts they talk about here could be incorporated into the committee's work programme for next year. I say that not just in regard to our committee remit, but the remits of various committees across the spectrum, so that there is a greater connection and relationship between the Oireachtas and the research community, because it is about engaged research and informed decisions being taken and that can only happen if we try to build that relationship. What is happening in Dingle is proof of what can happen when we bring all the players together. I thank each and every one of the witnesses for their evidence this morning.

That concludes the committee's business for today. Next week we will engage with representatives from the National Transport Authority, Irish Rural Link, and hopefully the Health Service Executive, on sustainable rural transport and connecting it in with the health service as well.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.44 a.m. sine die.
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