Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement díospóireacht -
Thursday, 1 Feb 2024

All-Ireland Economy: Discussion (Resumed)

An Cathaoirleach

We are now in public session. Apologies have been received from Deputy Frank Feighan, Mr. Mickey Brady, MP, and Ms Claire Hanna, MP.

On behalf of our committee I welcome Mr. Martin Robinson, director of strategy, and Dr. Stuart Mathieson, research manager, InterTradeIreland to discuss the all-Ireland economy. I thank both of them for attending today.

Separately, I would like to welcome the fact that the Northern Executive looks like it will be up and running soon. Hopefully, as a committee, we welcome that and welcome you engaging actively with the Assembly and Ministers. Perhaps we will visit Belfast fairly soon and if we can, through the good offices of different members, try to meet some of the key players in the new Executive when it is formed, if that is agreed.

I will explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present, or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts, is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. However, witnesses and participants who are to give evidence from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts. They may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. Witnesses are also asked to note that only evidence connected with the subject matter should be given. They should respect directions given by the Chair and the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should neither criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity.

Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that we should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I call Mr. Martin Robinson to make his opening statement. Our guests are very welcome. We will have an informal and, hopefully, very informative discussion.

Mr. Martin Robinson

I thank the Cathaoirleach and the members of the joint committee for the invitation to discuss the all-island economy and InterTradeIreland’s role in supporting enterprise.

As members will be aware, InterTradeIreland is one of the six North-South implementation bodies, established in 1999 under Strand 2 of the Good Friday Agreement with a remit to support and develop all-island trade and economic co-operation. Our work supports businesses across the island to grow through trading cross-Border, innovating, collaborating and attracting investment. We play a unique role in making connections North and South, and identifying opportunities where an all-island approach can accelerate business growth.

In 1998, cross-Border trade was worth around €2 billion. By 2022, it had grown to around €12 billion, a record high. The most recent figures published by the CSO tell us that from January to November 2023, cross-Border trade in goods alone was worth €9.5 billion. Services data as we know is less timely, but since 2013 services have accounted for most of the growth in cross-Border trade and were worth around €2.7 billion in 2022 and growing.

Last year, research by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, into cross-Border trade showed that goods trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland has risen above the levels expected between two neighbouring economies of this size, demonstrating strong integration between both economies and representing a much improved position from previous research in 2009. Ireland remains Northern Ireland’s largest export market.

The growth in cross-Border trade, as we know, comes against a background of challenging macroeconomic conditions. There have been deep and lengthy recessions, the Brexit process, a prolonged global pandemic and geopolitical economic shocks such as the wars in Ukraine and, most recently, Gaza. This demonstrates how resilient, innovative and enterprising the businesses on this island are. We also know from our research that firms that trade across the Border tend to be more resilient and innovative and generally outperform their non-exporting peers.

InterTradeIreland’s purpose is to provide information, advice and tailored support to small and medium-sized enterprises across the island to help them to grow and take advantage of the opportunities available in the all-island economy. Since 1998, we have directly supported more than 57,000 businesses, creating and-or protecting 23,000 jobs and generating €1.8 billion in business development value. Over 1,800 first-time exporters and 1,200 first-time innovators took their initial steps with our support. Last year alone, we supported over 2,600 businesses in every county on the island.

Our programmes and support focus on three strategic priorities: growing cross-Border trade; enabling collaborative innovation; and preparing businesses to become investor ready and secure the funding they need to grow and scale. Our trade supports grow the number of exporting businesses, including first-time exporters, by unlocking new sales and sourcing opportunities across the island, using the cross-Border market as a first step to exporting internationally.

Our innovation supports build connections for entrepreneurs, academics and policymakers, North and South, to collaborate, to develop new and improved processes, products and services and to drive competitiveness, greater sustainability and productivity across the island. Our investor readiness programmes help to prepare ambitious entrepreneurs across the island to connect with investors and secure the external funding that they need to grow and scale up. For example, our Seedcorn programme is one of the biggest early stage investor readiness competitions on the island and last year’s venture capital conference in Dublin was attended by over 500 businesses, high-potential start-ups and members of the venture capital and investor community.

InterTradeIreland has a unique role as a connector to facilitate collaboration, North and South, and to identify opportunities where an all-island approach can accelerate economic growth and contribute to the delivery of shared policy objectives for our partner Departments, namely, the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland and the Department for Enterprise, Trade, and Employment. All of this work is supported by our strategic research programme, which ensures our supports are evidence-based.

We are on the pulse of business sentiment. Our all-Island business monitor is a unique quarterly survey of 750 SMEs across the island, enabling us to track and monitor issues such as business outlook, profitability, current challenges and how firms are responding to changing trading conditions. This means we can see and respond quickly to emerging issues and opportunities across the island. Our quarter 3 survey showed that almost two thirds of businesses on the island were in a stable position, seven in ten reported that they were profitable and there was cautious optimism about future sales prospects. However, we noted that competition emerged as an issue for a quarter of the businesses surveyed.

We commission specific research projects that highlight the benefits and opportunities of all-island approaches, enabling us to inform policy development and provide foresight for businesses and stakeholders in key areas such as sustainability and competitiveness.

I again thank members for the opportunity to address the joint committee. I hope that this has been a helpful overview. We will be glad to take any questions.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Robinson for his statement. I acknowledge the fantastic work InterTradeIreland is doing and how important it is that the benefits and growth continue. North-South interaction involves two-way traffic and is important and productive. Particularly meaningful employment has been provided for many people.

Mr. Francie Molloy

I thank Mr. Robinson for his presentation. Happy St. Brigid's day to you all. The statement speaks for itself in terms the success of the programme. How effective it has been in dealing with the assembly being down? What effect has that had on the process of dealing with businesses in the North over the past couple of years? How has InterTradeIreland been able to accommodate that and work around it? It is to be hoped that the assembly will soon be up and running and that we can get the North-South bodies in place again. That will help. Are businesses in the North fully aware of the role of InterTradeIreland? Do they participate with it fully? How have the effects of Brexit impacted on the development of InterTradeIreland's programmes? I know from experience some of the work it has done. It is welcome and is to be encouraged in the future.

Mr. Martin Robinson

On dealing with the assembly being down, we can look at that from the perspective of businesses as well as our own perspective. I mentioned our research. It demonstrates that businesses are resilient and focus on what they need to do to grow. They get their heads down and get on with things. We very much notice that. The best evidence of that is the cross-Border trade figures. In spite of there being no assembly, trade has continued to grow year on year and go from strength to strength. It is now at its highest level ever. We saw growth in 2022, North to South and South to North, of 30%, which is really encouraging.

As regards our organisation, we have continued to deliver across these years against our remit of supporting businesses on the island and driving growth. Businesses continue to seek our reports, which speaks in some way to the second question. We are continuing to work closely with businesses, and to change and pivot our supports and respond to their needs. With the assembly being down and the North-South Ministerial Council not operating, we acknowledge that the council plays a key role for cross-Border bodies in providing policy direction and as a forum for both jurisdictions in matters of mutual interest. However, we have worked throughout all this time very closely with both sponsor Departments, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department for the Economy, which provide great support for our work, as well as close collaboration and direction to ensure that we continue to make a positive contribution to policy priorities North and South. From a governance perspective, the absence of a North-South Ministerial Council has had an impact in terms of our ability to recruit new board members and make changes to current headcount levels.

On the question about businesses' awareness of what we do and participate in, we have been very encouraged by the level of demand for the products and services we offer and the level of uptake from businesses right across the island - every county on the island is involved - and that remains strong. We can talk about specific programmes in due course. There is strong demand for the programmes we offer. We do a lot of promotion of the programmes, events and activities we run and the support we provide. We work closely with a number of Departments, stakeholders and regional partners who help to promote the programmes and encourage businesses to take advantage of the opportunities. That has been very encouraging.

Obviously, Brexit provided some uncertainty for businesses, which was not helpful, but we are very proud of the response we made in terms of pivoting our supports and providing at that time what was a sort of Brexit advisory service. Through that, more than 60,000 users benefited from the free and impartial advice we provided and 4,000 businesses took advantage of a Brexit voucher that we brought out at the time to enable them to access expert advice on moving goods under the new rules, and that was really successful. Over that time, we have adapted those vouchers.

Most recently, and this is an important development, we launched a new cross-Border trade hub, which is an online knowledge hub for trade in goods and services. Through that, we are trying to provide up-to-date advice, information and guidance to businesses in terms of some of the implications of some of the changes that are happening and deal with their queries in areas such as customs, VAT regulation and cross-Border employment.

To finish, in response to Mr. Molloy's question, through our all-island business monitor, we ask businesses questions each quarter with regard to Brexit and its impact. Over time, we have seen that decline from a peak back when it was there to businesses largely now telling us that they have adapted. More than half of cross-Border exporters tell us that they have adapted almost in full to the changes under the new regulations, and we have seen it diminish as one of the key issues in our survey over that time. Again, it testifies that businesses typically make the changes they need to get on with things and seek the clarity where they need it, but really drive business opportunities where they can.

Mr. Francie Molloy

I thank Mr. Robinson very much for the answers. I will finish with one other question. With regard to the new regulations that are coming in for South-North trade, that is, Irish trade into the UK market, do the witnesses think that will have any major effect on the flow of business from the South to North at the present time?

Mr. Martin Robinson

I will let Dr. Mathieson answer that.

Dr. Stuart Mathieson

At the moment, we do not anticipate any change in North-South trade. For any regulations that may be affected as a result of the command paper that was issued yesterday, we would have to wait to see the detail of the regulations. In principle, the idea of North-South trade remaining unfettered and continuing as it always has done seems to be the case going forward.

Mr. Francie Molloy

With regard to the new regulations for dealing with trade from the South to the North or into the UK market that came into being yesterday, what effect would they have?

Dr. Stuart Mathieson

We will have to wait to see the details. There are some welcome developments, such as the announcement that there will be no border post in Cairnryan, which should ease the transit of goods moving through Northern Ireland from the Republic to Great Britain, but we will have to wait to see the precise detail of what has been implemented.

Mr. Martin Robinson

If I can add to that, we are continually monitoring the developments and putting the latest information and advice out to businesses through our cross-Border trade hub. We also support that through, for instance, a chatbot facility for people to interact. More importantly, however, in many ways, we back it up with strong telephone guidance and advice and, in particular, access to experts who will work one-to-one. We provide financial support to the businesses to get that expert advice for them to properly understand what those implications are and, importantly, begin to take action in terms of what the obligations would be. We would encourage the businesses out there and, indeed, our stakeholders to look to that cross-Border trade hub because we are endeavouring to ensure it is kept up to date and current in tracking the developments and impacts. To Mr. Molloy's point, through our survey, we will continue to ask those questions and we hope to be able to detect if there is any movement in terms of levels of uncertainty or impacts and to respond along with our key partners and stakeholders to try to smooth any difficulties that might arise or any restrictions or tensions that exist.

Mr. Francie Molloy

Okay, I thank Mr. Robinson very much.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Molloy. There is just half a minute left, so we will move on to the next group and keep the time back. The next slot is Fianna Fáil.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank the Cathaoirleach very much. I am sharing time with my colleague, Senator McGreehan. The witnesses will celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of InterTradeIreland this year. There is much to be celebrated. It should put a clear message out there about what has been achieved despite the international challenges with regard to recession, pandemics and all of that, and also against the backdrop of the North-South Ministerial Council not being able to function fully since 2016 because of the institutions not meeting in Stormont with the Assembly and the Executive. We know the knock-on effect, particularly for all-Ireland implementation bodies as well. We have much to celebrate with the success of InterTradeIreland. I would hope that the message would be put out to the general public that the all-Ireland economy is being built and strengthened despite what politicians in other jurisdictions try to say.

Mr. Robinson also mentioned that trade has risen above the levels to be expected between two neighbouring economies of this size. That demonstrates very clearly that not alone are we neighbouring economies, but we are very much independent economies. There is a great message to send out there. IBEC and some other business representative groups were with us and they put out the message similarly. It is important from the point of view of showing what can be achieved without people waving flags or talking ideology, and people getting on with doing the business and providing jobs and the necessary supports being put in place by governments. It is a great message.

InterTradeIreland constantly does good research on cross-Border trade. Is there sufficient data available on cross-Border trade? Do other statutory agencies, North and South, need to do more research in that area to identify the gaps and identify the potential for development? I will defer to my colleague, Senator McGreehan.

Senator Erin McGreehan

The witnesses are very welcome. Everybody here would agree that the work InterTradeIreland has been doing over the past 25 years has been absolutely invaluable. My brief question to the witnesses is about how it is very natural for us to trade with the North. It is easy to go up the road to buy or sell stuff. In the witnesses' experience over 25 years, obviously, we have seen the results of work done, but what are the greatest threats and what are the greatest opportunities? How do we, as policymakers, counteract the threats and support the positives to make sure we move on for the betterment of everyone?

Mr. Martin Robinson

I thank the members. I will just start by echoing what Deputy Smith said. We are very proud of the achievements within InterTradeIreland and the work we have done and success we have had in enabling collaboration, co-operation and trade, North-South and South-North, over that time. I thank him for that. To give an example of that, last year, marking the anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, we hosted a business summit in Belfast to talk about some of the opportunities that exist in the market. That was attended by more than 700 delegates, North and South, right across the island who made the effort to come up. Likewise, in this year, we are hoping to mark what is our 25th anniversary. Likewise, I agree with the members that it is built on very strong foundations and that significant opportunities exist going forward, which we hope to realise with the support of our partners across the island in our two departments.

With regard to the question on the data that is available, again Dr. Mathieson will pick up on that, but we have good information available from the Central Statistics Office, CSO, here and from the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency, NISRA, in Northern Ireland. There are a few challenges in terms of some of the differences that come out. His Majesty's Revenue and Customs, HMRC, is another source of export data. Again, however, it is sufficient to enable us to, for example, recognise that there has been export growth across almost every sector and that is really encouraging as well. I will let Dr. Mathieson say a few more words in terms of some of that data and what that has shown us recently.

Dr. Stuart Mathieson

I echo the praise for the good work done at InterTradeIreland before I joined. Regarding the statistics and how they are available, there are three main sources. The Central Statistics Office, CSO, here, the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency, NISRA, and His Majesty's Revenue & Customs, HMRC, in Britain have been recording those. One issue is the timeliness of data. We mentioned in the opening statements that services data, in particular, runs on a lag. For methodological reasons, the CSO does not collect services data in the same way as NISRA, so they are not directly comparable, in that sense. This means we can only talk about services generally on a one-year to two-year lag. The most recent figures were for 2022 and were published in December. We monitor constantly from all agencies. We have an excellent project manager, Thomas Bell, who is a fantastic economist and lives and breathes everything trade-related. We are certainly keeping an eye on it. We would welcome any engagement from the agencies on what we can do better and what we can do more of. That would be a priority for us to focus on.

For our own part, as well as monitoring what other agencies do, we commission our own research projects into where those gaps and opportunities may be. At the moment, we are undertaking a research project into the business support ecosystem across the island so that we can understand how the ecosystem feeds into the challenges and supports the businesses need on issues like productivity and the part we can play in providing them with the relevant information they need to grow.

Mr. Martin Robinson

Regarding some of the specific facts and figures, I referred to the growth across all sectors. Almost 90% of the commodity groups have grown year on year. Manufacturing is obviously still very important. A total of €4 billion accounts for one third of all cross-Border trade. I know the committee met Manufacturing NI and other groups. We have a fantastic manufacturing base North and South and great opportunities for collaboration. Construction is still important for us. It accounts for more than €1 billion. Clearly, agrifood is a thriving sector with lots of cross-Border activity in terms of supply and food production chains, with meat, dairy and animal products contributing more than €2 billion to the total of cross-Border trade. Pharmaceuticals is another area where we have seen growth. The key message, from our perspective, is to encourage businesses to look to the cross-Border market. It is a thriving market on our doorstep. As the Deputy said, people do not think about a border when they are doing business. There are great opportunities for all businesses of all sizes across all sectors.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I have some final questions. Are the witnesses satisfied that they are getting enough interaction from the smaller enterprises rather than the medium-sized enterprises? Are the smaller and start-up enterprises engaging enough? Is there enough interaction and economic activity from the point of view of the surveys in the less-developed parts of the Border economy in particular? We all know the Dublin-Belfast line will surge ahead economically as they are the two largest urban centres. I am thinking of the central Border area: Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh. Those areas need a particular focus. Do the witnesses see emerging enterprise developments that would give hope for the further and necessary economic development and regeneration in that area?

Mr. Martin Robinson

Yes, we have a strong focus on the SME base, particularly the small and micro companies. Much of our support is focused on providing those companies with the advice and practical support that smaller businesses typically need. There has been a great uptake of our supports right across the business base, but in particular with smaller businesses. That said, we need to message clearly to them and ensure we get the outreach to encourage them to step forward and participate. In some cases, with the smaller businesses, we need to promote to them the benefits of why exporting or innovating is very important to them to enable them to grow and to achieve the potential they can.

On the second question of uptake, we are very pleased, and I mentioned the fact, that we have supported businesses across all the counties. Clearly, to some degree, because of the concentration of businesses, there will be concentrations in Dublin and Belfast and other areas. However, we have had strong regional representation and strong examples of businesses right across all regions taking advantage of the supports we provide. Whether they are based in Cork or the midlands, there are great examples of collaboration between some of the businesses and companies taking advantage of some of the supports we have such as our Acumen programme, which enables them to get a dedicated salesperson in the cross-Border market to open doors, find contacts, source suppliers and drive business growth.

Yes, is the short answer to the Deputy's question. It is a focus and we work hard to ensure there is a regional presence. We are proposing to do some more in-market events in the next year. This is important in our 25th anniversary year to really get our message down to the grassroots level and the small businesses throughout the country.

An Cathaoirleach

I have a couple of quick questions. What is your budget and who funds it?. Is it North-South funding? How do you get your money?

Mr. Martin Robinson

Two thirds of our budget is funded from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment here and one third from the Department for the Economy in the North. This year our total budget is some €14 million, most of which-----

An Cathaoirleach

You can do a lot with that.

Mr. Martin Robinson

The vast majority of that, €11 million, will be spent directly on supporting businesses. For us, that is the key focus.

An Cathaoirleach

How many full-time and part-time staff do you have?

Mr. Martin Robinson

We have a headcount restriction at the moment on permanent staff. We have a permanent complement of 42 staff. For a small organisation, we like to think we punch above our weight. With the challenges we have, we supplement the full-time complement with some additional staff through fixed-term and temporary contracts.

An Cathaoirleach

In your address, you noted that competition emerged as an issue for a quarter of the businesses concerned. How significant is that comment and what, if anything, can we in the South do to address some of those issues?

Mr. Martin Robinson

It is something that emerged in the last quarter. For the last period, as can be imagined, the cost of doing business dominated and overshadowed most other things for businesses North and South. Through our survey, we have noticed that, in a lot of the work we do, there is not any great difference between the attitudes or issues of businesses North and South. While costs dominated, it was interesting that, last quarter, costs are still there as the number one issue, but we see the influence diminishing a little bit over time and that emergence of competition came through. It is hard to base on just one quarter of data because that was based on quarter 3. As we speak, we are expecting our quarter 4 data to come forward, and we will analyse that in due course to see if that is a sustained trend and if there is something that we need to look to.

On the question of why that is the case, I think it is probably a reflection of the fact that businesses are fighting hard to maintain their positions and to grow their sales. Many of them are now at the stage where they have had to absorb lots of costs. While they have been able to pass some price increases on, I think it is fair to say they are seeing greater competition from competitors on the island and off the island. It is something we closely monitor.

An Cathaoirleach

Is this an issue North and South?

Mr. Martin Robinson

Yes, it is.

An Cathaoirleach

I presume it applies to other businesses as well, other than North-South-focused businesses?

Mr. Martin Robinson

Absolutely.

Senator Emer Currie

It is nice to meet Dr. Mathieson and Mr. Robinson. Have either of them have had the chance to read the command paper from yesterday and the references to the all-island economy? I very much welcome the developments and the fact that we are seeing a path to the restoration of Stormont very quickly.

This is very good news for InterTradeIreland and the North-South Ministerial Council.

Let me address the references to the all-island economy and the statement that there will be a complete repeal of all statutory duties. There was also reference to the red lane and the 20% limit on freight passing through Northern Ireland. Does that have a knock-on effect on InterTradeIreland’s work? How does it work in reality? How do the witnesses see it playing out?

Mr. Martin Robinson

As it was very recent, we have not had a chance to examine the detail and fully consider the practical implications of the command paper and what it might mean. However, when we get back to the office, we will absolutely consider it as a matter of priority.

With regard to some of the items included, Dr. Mathieson has had the chance to examine the document in a little detail and may be able to answer some of the questions.

Dr. Stuart Mathieson

As Mr. Robinson said, the command paper arrived yesterday, so we have not had a chance to go through it in detail. However, we noted sections 114 to 116 mentioned the reference to the all-Ireland economy and the statutory duty to have due regard for it that the withdrawal Act placed on Government Ministers and the devolved Administration. Legislation on this will be introduced today and tomorrow, so we will have to see what it means in practice for what we will be doing at InterTradeIreland. The remaining sections of the withdrawal Act, sections 10(1)(a) and 10(2), do not necessarily refer to the obligation to talk about the all-island economy in a political sense but they maintain, in the first instance, the spirit of the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement and make very clear that there will be no interference with the institutions of North-South bodies.

Senator Emer Currie

Would I be right in thinking that because the all-Ireland economy is performing so well, with a figure of €10 billion for goods and other €2 billion when services are included, which is happening through business and supported by InterTradeIreland, the measures do not represent a threat to the all-island economy in any way?

Mr. Martin Robinson

I absolutely take that view. Businesses will identify the opportunities where they exist. The trade routes and trade growth exist. Businesses understand this and those already selling across the Border see the benefits. We are available to support them to sell more. The cross-Border market is a very obvious first-time export market that smaller businesses should consider. Again, we are available to support those businesses that have not thought about it to take the first steps. Businesses will always find a way, the line of least resistance. I do not see the proposals having a major impact on the potential for further growth in cross-Border trade.

Senator Emer Currie

I hope InterTradeIreland takes it as a compliment that there will now be an InterTradeUK.

Mr. Martin Robinson

Absolutely. It may be a testament to the good work we have been doing. The success of our organisation, what we have been doing and the collaboration we have managed to establish across the island between the partners, across Departments and between academic institutions and businesses have been acknowledged as comprising a great example of how to proceed and make things work. We and our partners are making it work. Yes, we are flattered that, following the success of InterTradeIreland, there will be a InterTradeUK or InterTradeBritain. On a more serious note, we look forward to working with those institutions to see where opportunities exist for further collaboration in areas of mutual interest.

Senator Emer Currie

InterTradeIreland’s document states that, since 2016, its work has been affected by the stopping and starting of the North–South Ministerial Council. Could Mr. Robinson elaborate on that and speak to the impact of not having a Minister in place in Northern Ireland to make decisions with him and for the work he does? How has this affected the organisation? What is now on top of its agenda?

Mr. Martin Robinson

On the impact, we continued in the time in question to have a strong relationship with both Departments for the economy, in the North and South. Obviously, there is an impact on some of the decision-making. We referred earlier to our headcount issues and some issues associated with those whereby there have been no decisions or whereby we have not been able to make decisions to increase the headcount where we see a greater opportunity. We feel that, with more good people in our organisation, we could do even more. That is probably one of the areas we would look to. Again, there are some implications, perhaps, regarding the governance of our board and its membership. However, with the restoration of the Executive – I am particularly looking forward to the return of a fully functioning North-South Ministerial Council – we expect to be able to resolve these issues to ensure full board membership and strong representation.

Senator Emer Currie

When InterTradeIreland has an opportunity to go through the command paper in detail, it will note a couple of points that struck me in regard to the all-Ireland economy, one being the reference to the red lane and the limitation to 20% freight passing through Northern Ireland. I do not know how that would work. I would welcome the witnesses' views on it. Another aspect was a reference to fees and charges. It is free for Ireland and other countries to transit ports in the North but it has not been free in the opposite direction. Has that ever been said to InterTradeIreland? I never heard of this before. It never came up for us. Was this on InterTradeIreland’s radar at all?

Mr. Martin Robinson

It is not something we would have been aware of. We will most certainly give it careful consideration and will be happy to feed back further information on what we regard to be some of the issues. I do not see it as necessarily producing additional barriers to the cross-Border opportunities that exist.

Senator Emer Currie

I thank the witnesses for all the work they are doing.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I thank the witnesses. Fantastic work is being done. It is great to hear about it at today’s meeting. How does InterTradeIreland work to support cross-Border trade from economically disadvantaged regions, such as those near the Border? How are these efforts impacted by poor connectivity, such as the lack of a high-speed rail link between Belfast and Dublin and poorer road and transport links to the north west?

Mr. Martin Robinson

We work through our own colleagues but also with both Departments and indeed the agencies north and south to promote our programmes to ensure we have outreach to businesses. That would be right across the country, including those areas that are perhaps more peripheral and not on the main Dublin–Belfast corridor. We have had strong success in that regard. We work closely with a network of providers across the country, north and south, which promote our programmes and actively try to develop a pipeline of businesses able to take advantage of the many trade programmes we provide. Through our Acumen programme, we can support a company with 50% of the costs in taking on a new sales resource.

We find this is very valuable to businesses. To give an example, a County Cork-based manufacturer of milk cooling tanks for the dairy industry, which was a single-product company selling exclusively in the Irish market, recognised the potential of the cross-Border market as an opportunity it could not afford to ignore. With our support it has brought on board a full-time sales person who went into the market, shook hands with people and made introductions. As a direct result of this work, it was able to appoint three new dealers in Northern Ireland. It has given the company a platform. We are speaking about GB and this company was given a platform to access the GB market. This company saw its selling into Northern Ireland grow in a short period of time from 1% to 16%. It has also opened new market opportunities for it in GB and beyond.

With regard to Deputy Wynne's question on connectivity and infrastructure, they are not directly in our remit. Deputy Wynne is right that infrastructure is a key issue. We know it is a key enabler of productivity and business growth throughout the country. We welcome any plan to look at improving the transport infrastructure throughout the island to address some of the peripheralities of some of the regions, and to increase the frequency and flow of the traffic and trade which can come at the back of a robust and strong network. We would very much welcome any plan to upgrade trade infrastructure, such as the rail network.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I thank Mr. Robinson. The Cathaoirleach already spoke about the competition that businesses face, which was referred to regarding the quarter 3 survey. I am interested in this point. Costs have been mentioned. I hear from small and medium businesses in County Clare about rising costs and the struggles they face. The witnesses have mentioned that InterTradeIreland has supported businesses in every county on the island. I am in County Clare. Do the witnesses have anything to say about those businesses in County Clare that InterTradeIreland has been able to support? It would be great to hear about this work.

It was mentioned that trade across the Border tends to be more resilient and innovative and that generally those businesses outperform their non-exporting peers. This is why I am very interested to hear about the competition. Is it in a particular sector? Is there a trend? In County Clare the tourist industry is being disproportionately impacted at present. I would like to raise this with InterTradeIreland.

The witnesses have spoken about the work InterTradeIreland does as a connector and in identifying opportunities. They spoke about the various Departments it deals with. What the major challenges or gaps that InterTradeIreland encounters in its work in dealing with these two Departments?

Mr. Martin Robinson

I do not have the figures for Clare to hand but we track them and we can provide this information. One of the things we are working on, because we feel it is very powerful, is to have very strong case studies of businesses in various parts of the country and various sectors. They speak for themselves in terms of the benefits. We will follow up and provide some of this more granular data to Deputy Wynne.

I have some facts and figures in front of me from our All-Island Business Monitor on the issues. The cost of energy and the cost of other overheads has been the key issue for businesses for two years. The data we have at present shows that it is easing a little bit. The point Deputy Wynne made about the competition is something we need to watch.

With regard to the relative performance of cross-Border and non-cross-Border traders, we have seen that those businesses that trade cross-Border enjoy higher levels of growth. I will give some examples of this. In our recent survey, one third of cross-Border traders reported increased sales compared to one quarter of those that do not sell across the Border; and three quarters of businesses with cross-Border sales reported they were profitable, which drops to two thirds of businesses that do not sell across the Border. These facts speak for themselves. A total of 31% of cross-Border traders reported they were enjoying rapid or moderate growth compared to 13% of those businesses that do not. Our call to businesses is that the cross-Border market creates opportunities and enables them to increase sales and profits and be more resilient. It is a market they should be looking to.

Dr. Stuart Mathieson

On the question of businesses in Clare we keep a regional view on the businesses we support. I do not have figures for Clare to hand but last year we supported 133 businesses in the Clare, Limerick and Tipperary region. On the point about the Border areas and other regional areas, we have dedicated consultants who work on our programmes in each area to ensure we have a regional spread. As an example, we have a dedicated consultant who has a patch in Monaghan, Cavan and Leitrim. The Border area is well covered. This year we plan to do a series of roadshows whereby we will get out and encourage businesses through meeting them on the ground and telling them what we can do to help them. Of course we will also listen to see what we can do to help them.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank InterTradeIreland for being here today. It is very timely that the witnesses are here because of what is happening in the North and the restoration of the Executive. I thank them for all the work they have done in spite of what they have been up against in terms of the North-South ministerial bodies and the lack of meetings and everything else. They have still managed to do an awful lot of work. The role of InterTradeIreland is absolutely critical at this juncture. Even on first reading of the command paper, some of what is in there on the all-island economy would be of great concern to me. We need to note this, particularly the repeal of the statutory instruments on the all-island economy. It is crazy. I would be confident that some of the nonsense can be set aside because of all of the good work done by InterTradeIreland and others, because of the pragmatism of businesses across the island and how this has been embedded, because of what the shared island unit is doing terms of research and development, and because of issues such as the all-island rail review. It is in the interest of everybody living on the island that the all-island economy works and that there is trade between the two islands and the EU.

There are great opportunities with regard to dual access for goods in particular. We need to do more exploration to see what it will mean for services. Great opportunities are being presented to us. There is an onus on us all to ensure it benefits everybody on the island and I thank the witnesses for their very good work. What are the main opportunities being presented by the restoration of the Executive and the North-South Ministerial Council? Specifically, would it benefit the strengthening of the all-island economy if the Irish Government and the North's Executive agreed a joint plan for development across the island?

Mr. Martin Robinson

To echo some of what the Deputy said, our research has demonstrated to us that three quarters of the businesses that sell across the Border go on to sell off the island. That is really significant. The bar of the cross-Border market gives them the confidence and skills to do that outreach. The example was given earlier of the car company that is now selling very successfully across Great Britain. The Deputy is right in the sense that wherever the opportunities exist, whether North to South or east to west, businesses will seek to exploit them. I hope it will not be the case that there are impediments in this regard and I do not think businesses will allow that to be the case. They will find those opportunities wherever they exist. By all means, organisations such as ours and others need to collaborate to ensure we can help businesses to identify the opportunities and source the customers and suppliers they need to grow and develop. That is something we intend to do.

Regarding the Deputy's comments and concerns around the command paper, it is very recent and we will look at what those concerns might be. My overall sense of it, going back to one of the earlier questions, is that where opportunities exist in the cross-Border market, our businesses will still find those opportunities. We will be there by their side signposting them to where the opportunities exist and providing very practical supports to enable them to take advantage of those opportunities and to open the doors to new sales.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

There would be an absolute intolerance to any impediment to the development of business. When we consider that businesses have had to come through a global pandemic and everything else on top of it, I cannot see that any business, North or South, would accept impediments being put in its way.

My next question is about the possibility of collaboration between the local enterprise offices, LEOs, the local authorities here and the local authorities in the North. I ask this specifically in the context of the presentation the committee had on the PEACEPLUS programme the week before last. For the first time, we have opportunities for all the local authorities to be involved in that. How can the LEOs, InterTradeIreland and other organisations work together, both on research and development and also, as Mr. Robinson rightly referenced, on developing the export market? We often find that businesses here start to trade in the North, and vice versa, before scaling up for global export.

Mr. Martin Robinson

We have very strong working relationships with the key agencies North and South, including Enterprise Ireland, Invest NI, along with the LEOs in the South, the local enterprise agencies, LEAs, in the North and all the stakeholders that contribute to trying to grow the economy North and South. Those relationships are well established. We work very closely to signpost businesses to the supports that are available from the LEOs, the LEAs in the North, the councils and others. Likewise, they do the same for us. We run events and host conferences together and support one another in operating the programmes. Dr. Mathieson alluded to how, for example, we are taking a number of business owners from Northern Ireland to Cork in the next few weeks. We hope that will be the first of many such visits North to South and South to North. We have established that connection through our networks, our staff and by collaborative working. As the Deputy said, it makes sense for businesses.

We have lots of good examples where academics in the North are providing information and sharing technology and expertise through our innovation boost programme with businesses in the South, and likewise the other way around. Businesses in Northern Ireland are able to avail of some of the really clever expertise and technology that exists in the South. We have a network of specialist innovation experts who can enable those collaborations. Some of those collaborations have been fantastic. To give one example, we support a company that manufactures orthotics for amputees. It was able to link up with one of the institutions in Northern Ireland, which provided it with lots of technology around 3D printing. As a result of that, the company is able to take its products to market much more quickly, reduce costs and sell more effectively. That is just one small anecdotal example of some of the real successes we have had, not just in trade, which is critically important, but also in innovation, which the Deputy mentioned. We have built up, through our programmes, very strong examples of how innovation really drives business growth.

One of the areas in which we have been very successful is our synergy programme, where we have a strong focus on supporting clusters of businesses right across the island to see where the additional opportunities exist on all-island basis. Examples of that would be in the fintech sector where we have enabled businesses to take on a cluster manager to drive connectivity North and South and work with the academic institutions to ensure businesses in the sector, which is thriving North and South, can get the staff with the skill sets they need to build and grow their businesses. That is just one small example of where we are going is this area. Another example is where we have supported both the cyber organisations North and South to collaborate. They are doing some really interesting collaborative work by pooling their expertise, knowledge and skills to deliver for the benefit of manufacturing companies for which cyber concerns are a key issue. That is another small example of where collaboration on technologies and the transfer of ideas and expertise North to South are really paying dividends.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

This is where we come to human capital. One of the biggest challenges for business is being able to get the labour that is necessary. A significant development here is the Higher Education Authority, HEA, legislation, under which each of the higher education institutions, HEIs, is tasked explicitly with increasing the number of places in the South for students from the North. The same is happening vice versa, although I know there are caps in the North. That is crucial to our competitiveness in the future. All the colleges are increasing their numbers, with Trinity College Dublin having agreed to double its places for students from the North coming here. That exchange of learning and expertise and the creation of a human capital pool right across the island will be of benefit to others. We need to continue with that in terms of the equalisation of qualification recognition across the island.

One of the issues that concerns me is veterinary training. There is great potential for the agri industry but we do not have an all-island veterinary school. We only have the one in Dublin. We are trying to achieve an expansion whereby vets would be trained across the island and could work across the island, not just in one jurisdiction. In the context of food security, that becomes more and more important.

There is also the question of decarbonisation and how much of a driver that will be in attracting foreign direct investment, FDI, across the island. We cannot tackle that on a separate six-county and 26-county basis. We just cannot do so even if we try, no more than we can with energy security. These are all the issues that will guarantee our growth into the future.

InterTradeIreland probably is one of the most important agencies right now. I am sure the Chair will agree with me that if there are issues identified as things get up and running again in the North, if there is anything this committee can do to support and help the work InterTradeIreland is doing, we are very open to that, including having frequent engagements with the witnesses, whether by way of written submissions to us on what we can do to support the work they are doing, or otherwise. We are looking at the congruence between the data from the Central Statistics Office, CSO, the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency, NISRA, and His Majesty's Revenue & Customs, HMRC.

That is an impediment because, no matter what, it is restricting the comparisons we can make and the evidence. We are trying to get on to a more even keel in that regard. The HMRC is there but it does not do an awful lot of the data on a regional basis. Trying to dig down into that can be difficult. Again, no matter what our constitutional preference, we have to look back at all these things to see clearly how we can ensure growth and prosperity for everybody on the island, the potential for businesses, and have those frameworks in place and the environment we need to be able to thrive and prosper as an island. There is a responsibility on us all to work together to do that. I could talk all day about this but I am sure we will meet again to discuss InterTradeIreland's work. In the meantime, I ask the witnesses to keep up the good work.

Deputy Pauline Tully

Good morning to Mr. Robinson and Dr. Mathieson. I thank them for their contributions. Like other members, I commend the very important work they do. They offer very sound advice to businesses and give funding opportunities. Do they believe most businesses are aware of InterTradeIreland's existence? How does it reach out to businesses? Do businesses need to reach out to it? It organises events, conferences and so forth, but how do businesses become aware of its existence and the supports it offers? What kind of inquiries does it receive on the cross-Border hub, for example, and that sort of thing? Some of InterTradeIreland's programmes and schemes are long-running. It is constantly creating new ones and expanding the work it does, which is very impressive. Acumen is one of its schemes. How and why has it endured? What do the witnesses see as InterTradeIreland's largest contribution to the economy?

Mr. Martin Robinson

I thank both Deputies for their questions. I will pick up on one of the points Deputy Conway-Walsh made about decarbonisation and the wider sustainability agenda. Dr. Mathieson was responsible for commissioning the piece of work we have done on circular economy opportunities. We are nearing completion of that report and look forward to publishing it. It goes back to the point Deputy Tully made. We recognise that while circular economy activity happens North and South, there are economies of scale and potential for a joined-up approach to transform the opportunities in what might be called the green economy, as well as enabling small businesses throughout the island to do more and do their bit, if you like, for decarbonisation.

I will make another point on that. I completely agree that many of these opportunities do not recognise borders and cannot work in one jurisdiction or the other. We are considering, and will also do some research on this very soon, working alongside colleagues in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, for example, who are looking at offshore and onshore wind opportunities, and some of the opportunities that hydrogen, as a renewable energy source, presents for us. Again, those opportunities can best be exploited if they are considered on an all-island basis. That is research we are looking to undertake.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

Very good research is done in the Centre for Advanced Sustainable Energy, CASE, at Queen's University. We are familiar with that and have had presentations to the committee around it and what can be done on individual farms and clusters. There is a great interest throughout the island in what is being done in that regard. It is about that exchange of learning and not reinventing the wheel all the time.

Mr. Martin Robinson

In reply to Deputy Tully's point about promotion and uptake of the processes, as I said, we run campaigns, including through regional radio and media, to get the message out there regarding the programmes we have. We work closely with our partners and delivery agents right across the country to do that. Increasingly, however, we are encouraging companies to come via our website. We have done a lot of work on the website to make it easier for businesses that come to it to become aware of the supports and, probably more importantly, to be able to access those supports and give us the information to enable us to tell them what we believe we have that is available to them or, in some cases, what our economic development partners elsewhere throughout the island have available. It is to enable companies to navigate where the support that best suits their needs is most available. In our particular case, we will follow that up directly with businesses in terms of understanding their needs and then signposting them to the best support we have available through some of our key programmes.

Those programmes all serve particular reasons. For example, one of the things I have not mentioned is some of the very good work we do on what we call investor readiness. Those are typically very early stage but high-growth potential companies, which are critical to the success of our economy and future growth. We talked about that need to internationalise, go beyond the island and sell overseas. We have a broad range of programmes and support available to provide specific advice to help companies understand where equity investment can enable them to drive growth going forward. We do that through one-to-one clinics to help them to become investor ready. We then run a number of events and programmes that help bring the community together. This is about bringing those communities that want and are ready to receive investment together with those investors who have the capital and money available to enable them to realise their ambitions and drive their plans forward. Our venture capital conference is one example of that. The next one will happen next month in Belfast. We expect that to be strongly attended. Our Seedcorn competition is particularly important in that scenario, where we take businesses and do it on a regional basis. The outreach is there and is heavily promoted in each of the regions throughout the island, where early stage high-potential companies are able to get advice and support to enable them to compete, ultimately, for a prize fund of €300,000 in total across different categories, which include regional winners and a sustainability competition.

Those are also very important programmes to give businesses access to the skills they need, whether that be through trade support programmes, such as Acumen, or innovation supports, such as our innovation boost businesses explorer programme, which we have just developed, to help smaller businesses that may not be quite so sure about what this innovation thing means and how they take advantage of it. We explain it to them in very simple terms. It is about trying to find ways for them to see how they can improve, in many cases, their processes, products and services, reduce their energy costs, improve their productivity and identify new opportunities. We then help them plan what that could be like for them. Critically, as with all supports, it is backed by very practical support to do something about it, including taking the steps, getting the expertise and giving financial support to enable them to embark on an innovation journey and plan, or undertake that journey to look to the cross-Border market as a first step to off-island exporting.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank the witnesses very much for their attendance. The overview they gave is in every sense correct and valid. InterTradeIreland is a cross-Border body set up under strand two with a remit to promote trade and economic co-operation. It is doing that very successfully. There is unanimous support across all the parties and Independents for its activities. As Deputy Conway-Walsh said, if there is any way the witnesses think we can push ideas that the Government or Oireachtas in the South should be doing, we would be more than happy to do that. It is an historic day in one sense. InterTradeIreland is showing that the future for all of us is working together to build businesses, quality lives and incomes for people. I thank its representatives very much. They will be glad to hear this is our 100th meeting since we were set up. We are 100 meetings old today. Our meetings are very productive and we are getting on very well in interrogating the issues with people such as the witnesses.

The committee will now adjourn until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 15 February. I thank the witnesses.

Mr. Martin Robinson

I thank the committee for the opportunity.

The joint committee adjourned at 11 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 15 February 2024.