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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 20 Jun 2006

Commission for Taxi Regulation: Presentation.

The next item on the agenda is a discussion on the regulation of the taxi industry with representatives of the Commission for Taxi Regulation. I welcome Mr. Ger Deering, commissioner, and Ms Kathleen Doyle, director of operations.

I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Information supplied by Mr. Deering has been circulated and he will now make a presentation which will last approximately ten minutes, after which we will have a question and answer session.

Mr. Ger Deering

Ms Doyle and I are very glad of the opportunity to make a presentation to the committee and to give a brief run through of our activities as a relatively new organisation. Our mission statement is to achieve a first-class, professional, efficient, safe and accessible customer-friendly service for small public service vehicles. We have had major consultation since our establishment. The commission was established on my appointment in September 2004.

Since then we launched the first consultation as part of the national review. In June of last year, we published the national review as well as our second consultation paper which set out in broad terms what we intend to do over the next five to ten years. That paper is entitled, Roadmap — Towards a new national code of regulation for taxis, hackneys and limousines in Ireland. We sought views on that up to September 2005.

Coincidentally, also in September 2005, the Minister extended our powers by commencing practically all of the Taxi Regulation Act 2003. On getting those powers, we immediately launched our third consultation paper on taxi meter areas and taxi fares. All of these documents are available to members and were circulated to them at the time. They are also available on our website.

Throughout that process, we received and considered more than 500 submissions. We received advice from the advisory council to the Commission for Taxi Regulation. We also had face-to-face meetings and consultation meetings throughout the country. This has all culminated in the document before members entitled Driving Forward which is our action plan for 2006-07.

I will give some brief highlights of the action plan which include a new national licensing process. Until now, there have been 88 licensing authorities throughout the country. We are now the national licensing authority for small public service vehicles which include taxis, hackneys and limousines. This licensing process will be carried out through the 43 national car test centres following a tender process.

Linked to that new licensing system is a new unique licence number of each public service vehicle, PSV. Until now, the 88 local authorities used 88 different licensing numbers. Now each PSV will have a unique licence number which will feed into a new national register and database. By using that number, we will be able to get all the details on each PSV throughout the country and ensure they are fully compliant.

We will also establish a new taxi meter area and a new national taxi fare, topics to which I will return. Also included in the plan are details on enhanced consumer protection, enhanced accessibility for people with disabilities, improved information and awareness and a new national complaints process, which will be managed by the commission again using the national number. Every taxi, hackney and limousine will have to issue a receipt which will give the licence number and details of the trip. That will form the basis for our new national complaints process.

We are also putting in place a new driver skills development programme. This will be required by new applicants from 2007 and by existing drivers from 2008. I will say more about that in a moment. We are putting in place new operational standards for dispatch centres. They will be more accountable, will have to have their own complaints process and will have to ensure compliance among those providing the service for them. All of this will be supported by stronger enforcement. In that regard, we recently received the approval of the Departments of Transport and Finance to appoint enforcement officers who will be employed by the commission and will ensure stronger enforcement along with the Garda.

There are two issues in regard to taxi meter areas. A number of provincial towns did not declare taxi meter areas and, therefore, could not have a taxi service. In many cases, where they were declared, they were too small and it meant the meter did not operate and the fare was not controlled. Equally, a driver could refuse to take a journey outside that taxi meter area. From 25 September, the entire country will become one taxi meter area. This will mean every part of the country will have a taxi service and taxi fares will be controlled.

As part of this, we will strengthen the area knowledge drivers must have. In future a driver will operate on the basis of his or her area knowledge rather than where the car is licensed. Taxi drivers will have the right to refuse journeys over a distance of 30 km. It would not be reasonable to ask a driver who has been working all day to drive 200 miles. Drivers, however, will have to accept journeys up to 30 km but beyond that, they will have the right to refuse. If they accept a journey beyond that, it will be fare controlled on the basis of the new national taxi fare.

The new national taxi fare will consist of three tiers — tariffs A, B and C — depending on the distance. As I am sure members will ask questions on this, I will not go into too much detail now. The initial charge will be €3.80 from 25 September. That currently varies throughout the country from €2.80 in certain areas to €6. The rate per kilometre will be 95 cent. Currently, it ranges from 78 cent to €1.40 per kilometre. We are rebalancing these fares throughout the country.

We will create an awareness of these fares and consumers will know what to expect when they get into a taxi, irrespective of where they get in. At present there are 36 different taxi fares throughout the country which does not work for the consumer or the driver. There also will be a customer charter and perhaps if I move on to consumer information, members will hear what that entails.

Mr. Deering played a video.

We brought copies of mock-ups of the in-cab information that will be contained in taxis, hackney cabs or limousines should members wish to look at it afterwards.

I mentioned the skills development programme. It is important that drivers possess the knowledge and confidence required to carry out their work. The skills development programme will give them that confidence and professional recognition. Although I will not go through the skills and the areas the programme will cover because time is limited, they are listed in our Driving Forward document. As already stated, anybody entering the business will require it from 2007 and existing drivers will require it on renewal from 2008.

From the service provider's point of view, we are keen to assure them that this is not something they should fear. It will be delivered in a range of easily accessible formats and it is designed, not to make life difficult for drivers but to enhance their skills and their business. We also brought copies of the tamper-proof disk which will be affixed.

On enforcement, one concern raised surrounded the credentials of people who drive taxis, hackney cabs and limousines. The current system is that the Garda vets every applicant based on the Garda Commissioner deciding that the person is a fit and proper person. Section 36 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2003, the only section remaining to be fully commenced, provides that people with certain criminal offence convictions will automatically be disqualified from being awarded a licence. In recent weeks, the relevant parts of section 36 commenced. These provide for a person who has a criminal offence conviction to go to court and put his or her house in order. However, that is with a view to commencing the remaining part of section 36 of the Act in the future so that the process concerned will be tightened up further.

As my presentation slides state, we are entering a new era of service for small public service vehicles. We are committed to working with the customer, all of the stakeholders and the service providers to ensure a quality service. We believe everybody will win from that. We would be happy to answer members' questions.

I welcome Mr. Deering and Ms Doyle. For those of us who were involved in dealing with the legislation, it is great to see the matter coming to fruition. I congratulate them on their work to date.

I am somewhat disappointed by the proposed timelines to 2008. I realise that the commission is starting from scratch but it would be nice to think that some of those improvements could come before 2008.

Mr. Deering referred to section 36 of the Act and the remaining parts of it. What is the reason for the remaining parts of section 36 not being implemented? They are obviously critical in the case of removing the right of people who have serious criminal records to appeal to the courts. Has Mr. Deering any idea when it all might be implemented?

Where will the impressive videos we have seen be shown? I just wonder how the commission will get the message across. How many inspectors does Mr. Deering expect the commission will have at its disposal?

I wish to inquire about complaints. We receive many complaints that people's telephone calls are not answered by the Carriage Office. Where will the Carriage Office fit in to the commission's overall plan? Until the commission's new complaints procedures are in place, will the Carriage Office remain in its current form? Will the commission's new system be accessible late at night when most people use taxis or will it operate on a 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. basis?

Mr. Deering

I thank Deputy Shortall for her questions. Perhaps the graph of the timeline is not as clear as it should be because many of our changes are already in place. In fact, the new licensing system commenced in April. It was piloted across the country and commenced in Dublin. To explain the mammoth task involved, we have taken in all of the files from the 88 licensing authorities and entered them onto a database to generate the new register of licences.

Many of the next actions commence in September. The new national taxi meter area takes effect in September, the new national taxi fare takes effect in September and the new national complaints system starts in September. What Deputy Shortall saw listed for 2008 is the end of the timeline, the last of the long-term actions. Much has happened in a short period and much more will happen in the next two years. All that one may see outlined in Driving Forward will happen this year and in 2007.

Deputy Shortall asked why the remaining part of section 36 of the Act is taking longer to implement than some of its other parts. When the Act commenced, for example, the fare and the taxi meter area in place remained until we put new ones in place. With section 36, on the day it commences, anybody with a conviction — it applies in retrospect, even to somebody with a conviction from 20 years ago who may have had no more convictions since and has had a good record since — would automatically lose his or her licence. As a matter of natural justice, it is fair that such people would be given a period to apply to the courts and then it would be a matter for the courts to decide whether the person is entitled to hold a licence.

There are 50,000 files throughout the country on SPSV drivers. We have commenced the process of transferring that information to a database. These are mostly paper files that are to be found in locations throughout the country, including in the Carriage Office. There are 30,000 files in the Carriage Office alone. When we have all of that information we will write to all of those drivers and inform them that this is about to happen, which will be in the next couple of months. Although it is a matter for the Minister to commence it, I would imagine that it will occur late this year or early next year when the remainder of section 36 will have commenced. Court rules are in place for people with convictions to address this issue. The video mentioned is a brief advanced clip. It will be developed further and sent to every taxi driver in the State. A more extensive form will be used as part of training for the Garda in enforcement and driver training. It will also be part of a consumer awareness campaign for customers.

Will it be broadcast on television?

Mr. Deering

No but there will be an awareness programme on television which will have similar aspects. The message we want to get across is that when this is fully operational, if one sits into a taxi, hackney or limousine and it does not have a tamper proof disc in the front or back, it is not licensed. If it does not have this information on the rear windows, it is not licensed.

We have consulted carefully with people with disabilities and they wanted to know the contact details of the commission and vehicles. A disc will be stuck on the rear side window. Those registered with the National Council for the Blind will receive information from us on a Braille number. They can check the number and then contact us. We have text back and lo-call options for making complaints. As we will manage the complaints system, the calls will come to us. There will be two types of complaint — overcharging and lack of information. We will investigate and follow up. If the complaint is of a criminal nature, we will pass it to the Garda to follow up.

The role of the Carriage Office and PSV inspectors will be more concerned with enforcement than taking complaints. We have not decided the hours during which the complaints system will be available but it will operate for longer than regular office hours. The telephone lines and text options will provide information on how to make a complaint. However, natural justice will prevail. Because somebody makes a complaint does not mean it is correct. It would not be right for people to make complaints at 3 a.m. by telephone or text. We will give them the information and they will have to follow a format because we will have to investigate the complaint and be fair to both sides in the interests of natural justice.

I thank Mr. Deering for the work he is doing. I refer to the condition of cabs and driver behaviour, by which I mean playing music, opening windows, etc. For example, a taxi might not have a proper suspension. Who is responsible for this? Is it the Carriage Office or the commission? We have all been transported in older vehicles. Will a mechanism be put in place to track a vehicle in order that its service record can be analysed on an annual basis? Several complaints were made a few years ago about drivers who had obtained new licences travelling to work in a regular job and picking up fares on the way home having put the taxi sign up on the roof. They were, therefore, working the hours that suited them. There is great merit in the A to C system but there is no point in licensing 13,000 cabs in Dublin if people have to queue during the week because many drivers will only work on weekend nights. I would like the commission to address the condition of vehicles, the dress code of drivers and so on. Currently, a person can hail a taxi at any point on his or her route and taxis pull into bus lanes, etc., to pick up passengers. Is it proposed to introduce designated taxi stops similar to bus stops? The current system is not safe.

Mr. Deering

The next consultation document which will be published in a few months will address the quality of vehicles in great detail. We will put new standards in place, including, for example, minimum sizes for cars. The standard is basic in that a car must have four doors and not much more, although an NCT roadworthiness test must be undertaken annually. We will introduce basic minimum standards, while enforcement officers will check the quality and cleanliness of vehicles.

The issue of working hours is a difficult one. At the end of the day, drivers are self-employed and we are trying to take a relatively light approach to regulation, although some might not agree. We do not want to interfere with supply and demand but in-vehicle information discs will raise the bar in terms of people's commitment. The discs are permanent and cannot be removed, for example, at weekends. The permanent marking of taxis and hackneys will bring a certain commitment. We intend to deal with the dress code and other issues through the training programme for drivers. A two-pronged approach should be adopted, which would involve making drivers aware of their responsibilities, good practice and good customer care and, equally, making customers aware of what they are entitled to expect and helping them to seek redress if that does not happen.

The hailing of taxis is probably a road safety issue. We are worried that there are not enough taxi ranks. Many find it convenient to hail taxis. However, this issue can be dealt with during the training programme. A related issue is that customers and drivers think they can stop almost anywhere. This is an issue which needs to be addressed. In the training programme we will also address issues such as music playing and window opening. Under the rights charter, a customer is entitled to a clean vehicle and a quiet journey. Customers will have the right to say they do not want to listen to a particular radio programme or station and that they want a quiet journey.

What about drivers giving out about the Government?

Mr. Deering

That will be a difficult issue to overcome.

I hope they will not stop for another 12 months. I compliment Mr. Deering. While I do not have an in-depth knowledge of the taxi industry because I am from a rural area, I am impressed with the way he has gone about his business, which is good for customers. There is disquiet among one group of taxi drivers, I assume because the fare the commission has set is lower than what they charge. Will the new directive permit drivers to charge less than the recommended rate in certain circumstances?

Many rural towns did not have a taxi or hackney service until recent years. Under the new scheme, does the commission have rules for how they can operate? What is the difference between a taxi and a hackney, given that there was a clear line between them in years gone by? Is that still the case?

I have noticed on the few occasions I have used taxis in Dublin that the service is immeasurably better than it was a few years ago. However, many in the industry say it is extremely difficult to make a living. Perhaps, that is the reason some drivers only work at weekends. It does not pay them to work at other times. Has Mr. Deering experienced such a pattern?

Mr. Deering

The first question was related to disquiet about fares. We have been trying to communicate with drivers to address the lack of understanding about the changes we are making. We sent the document we provided to the committee to all 18,500 licensed taxi, hackney and limousine operators and issued a newsletter that includes a section on frequently asked questions. We have been issuing 1,500 new SPSV licence numbers per week in recent weeks and we have taken up to 200 calls per day in our office to explain the changes. In the past, there was no formal mechanism to communicate with taxi, hackney and limousine drivers. We find that, as we explain our system, people understand it better and are more accepting of it.

There has been some scaremongering by people who caused alarm by saying that in some places the fare will change from €6 to €3.80. What is happening is a rebalancing. The minimum or hiring charge is changing slightly. I will return to the chart to explain this. In some cases, where the hiring charge was €6, people say they will lose a great deal of money. If it was €6, the chances are it was for a longer distance. The hiring charge includes the first kilometre. When a person gets into a vehicle, the fare is €3.80, including for the first kilometre. Where people currently pay €6, this probably includes three or four kilometres, which means some people were paying for distances they were not using. The change will encourage more taxi use. We found that the €6 charge was a disincentive for people from going on short taxi runs. I suggest that the change is a rebalancing.

There are aspects of the fare changes that are unpopular. For example, a charge of €1.50 was added for pick-up at the airport at a time when taxis were scarce and when it was difficult to get taxis to operate at the airport. There is no longer any justification for that charge. There were also charges for luggage and these gave rise to disputes as to what constituted luggage. For example, is a child's buggy or shopping considered to be luggage? These charges caused many complaints to our office. We have tried as best we can to include these charges into the minimum fare and the rate per kilometre, which cover the service the customer receives. When people fully understand the fare when it comes into operation on 25 September, they will accept it better.

Deputy Connaughton asked whether drivers can charge less than the recommended rate. The amount we have set is a maximum fare and we constantly remind people that they can charge less. In some parts of the country, drivers do not like to impose a call-out charge or for additional passengers. They are entitled to forgo those charges. However, what we say is that if they make these charges, the figure we set is the maximum that can be charged. Sometimes it is not always appreciated that it is a maximum and that drivers can charge less.

The basic difference between taxis and hackneys is that the former can operate on the street for hire, sit at a rank and be hired or drive along the street and be hailed. A hackney cannot do this, but must be pre-booked, generally on a private basis by telephone. That is the reason there are more restrictions on taxis and why their maximum charges are controlled. People cannot go out on the street and stop eight or ten taxis and ask what they will charge. Someone must, therefore, protect people and tourists coming into the country from being overcharged. The maximum fare protects customers in that scenario. On the other hand, when people ring hackneys, they can make their own arrangements. They know who they are ringing and that if something happens, they can contact or trace the hackney driver afterwards. The main difference is that a hackney is not fare controlled, it must be pre-booked and the fare must be agreed in advance with the customer. Hackney drivers cannot offer their vehicles for hire on the street.

The evidence of our research does not support the reports on the difficulty of making a living. We have tried to strike a fair balance between the needs of the customers and the charges imposed on them and the need for operators to make incomes. People are still entering the industry and this suggests that such incomes can be made. Taxi driving is like any industry and there are varying degrees of profit.

I compliment Mr. Deering and Ms Doyle on their excellent presentation. They are doing a wonderful job on implementing the taxi regulations.

My first question concerns taxi drivers' right to refuse to make long journeys. The regulations provide that a taxi driver can refuse to go beyond 30 km. Is that a fair distance, particularly for people who might want to take a taxi from places such as the Ireland West Airport at Knock, the railway station in Ballina or the bus stop in Donegal town? The journey from the airport at Knock to Castlebar is over 30 km. I am sure the bus central bus station in Donegal town is over 30 km from the homes of many people seeking taxis and it would be the same case with regard to bus stations for many of the provincial towns along the west coast from Kerry to Donegal. The limit of 30 km at which a taxi driver can refuse a journey is very low and the regulator should consider increasing it.

My second question concerns section 36, which allows the refusal of an SPSV licence for various reasons, including offences from murder to manslaughter. One of the reasons for refusal is assault or assault causing harm. Drivers who have been convicted of such offences are operating taxis at present. When these regulations are in place, will such drivers be automatically disqualified?

Mr. Deering

Regarding section 36, people with such convictions will automatically be disqualified. That said, they will have the right to take an appeal to a judge. The latter can take the driver's character and how he or she has operated since the conviction into account. I imagine that the length of time since a conviction might also be a consideration, although I would not like to pre-empt the courts. The regulation is retrospective. It is, therefore, irrelevant whether the conviction was made ten, 20 or 30 years ago and the person will lose his or her licence. However, he or she will have the right to go to court either in advance of section 36 commencing or at any time afterwards on appeal.

Will anyone who was convicted up to 40 years ago of an offence on the list be disqualified?

Mr. Deering

Yes, unless he or she goes to the court in advance and uses the provision to take the appeal. This option has been available since 26 May. A person can, therefore, in advance of the section commencing, make an appeal seeking permission to hold a licence. If such people do not make an appeal or make an unsuccessful appeal, they will lose their licence when section 36 commences.

With regard to the right to refuse a journey above 30 km, this distance was given some consideration. We thought long and hard before settling on it. Even in rural areas, this is a significant improvement on the existing provisions. At present, the only right a passenger has is to be carried within a taxi meter area, which is a maximum of 2.5 to 3 miles in most cases. The 30 km distance represents a significant increase. We will keep the matter under review and monitor how it operates. There were arguments in favour of both much longer and much shorter distances. We chose what we believe to be the best distance. However, we will monitor its operation over time.

On behalf of the committee, I compliment Mr. Deering on the excellence of his presentation and on the excellent work he does.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.40 p.m. until 2.30 p.m on Wednesday, 12 July 2006.

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