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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Jun 2010

Annual Report 2009 and Accounts: Discussion with Dublin Airport Authority

I welcome the Dublin Airport Authority. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House, or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence given to this committee. If directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and the witnesses continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, witnesses should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House, a person outside of the House, or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I welcome Mr. Declan Collier, chief executive officer, Mr. Oliver Cussen, deputy chief executive, and Mr. Ray Gray, chief financial officer. I understand that Mr. Paul O'Kane, director, public affairs, and Mr. Jack MacGowan, chief commercial officer, are also present. I propose that we hear a short presentation followed by a question and answer session. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Declan Collier

I thank the committee for the invitation to address it on the company's recent annual results and its current trading position.

The global downturn had a marked impact on the DAA's financial performance last year. The Irish economy has been particularly affected by the downturn and as economic output declined both at home and in the UK, which is our largest trading partner and a key provider of air traffic into and out of Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports, this had a direct effect on our operation. Passenger numbers at our three Irish airports declined by just under 13% to 26.1 million in 2009. Retail sales are an excellent barometer of domestic economic activity, as they account for about half of all Irish consumer spending, and the fall in passenger numbers at our airports effectively mirrored the decline in Irish retail sales last year.

Despite the drop in traffic our airports played a pivotal role in the Irish economy last year, handling 96% of all international air traffic into the Republic of Ireland and 75% of all air traffic to this island. Turnover declined by 13% to €547 million while group profit, excluding exceptional items, decreased by 51% to €38 million. Taking into account a number of exceptional items, the group recorded an after tax loss of €13 million for the year.

Current trading continues to be difficult as economic conditions remain weak in Ireland and the UK. The company was also hit by the volcanic ash disruption which closed and restricted Irish airspace for 11 days in April and May. About 5,000 flights were cancelled and this affected the travel plans of more than half a million DAA customers.

We estimate that these disruptions have cost the company up to €9 million in lost revenue. As part of our customer service commitment we refunded aircraft parking charges to our airline customers for planes that were stranded at our airports due to the impact of volcanic ash. We also ensured that car park customers were not charged for any extra stay as a result of the disruption.

Passenger numbers have continued to decline this year, and those declines have been exacerbated by the volcanic ash disruption and the impact of severe weather across Europe in the early part of this year. The DAA responded quickly to the downturn by taking substantial measures to reduce its cost base and by introducing incentive schemes to stimulate growth. We agreed a landmark €38 million cost recovery programme with staff late last year. Under this programme, approximately 300 people left the company under a voluntary severance scheme, a further 150 temporary contract positions were not renewed and significant changes in work practices were agreed.

Staff at the company also voted to accept voluntary pay cuts ranging from 0% to 12% depending on their annual salary and a pay freeze until 2012. The average pay reduction was 5.5% while those earning less than the annual equivalent of €30,000 saw no reduction in their pay. A unique element of the agreement is the ability for pay levels to be restored if the company meets certain agreed profit targets in the future.

A total of 71% of the staff voted in favour of these cost-cutting measures and I again publicly praise my colleagues across our three airports for endorsing the company's cost-recovery plan in such significant numbers. Voting to accept a reduction in one's pay is never easy, as members of the committee know, and the company's staff deserve both recognition and praise for supporting this course of action. As a result of this action and prudent management of all operating costs, the DAA has reduced its costs to 2005 levels. All of these changes were managed without any disruption to the operation of the airports despite a very volatile industrial relations environment both within the sector — with the IAA and Aer Lingus — and on a national level.

Staying with the issue of costs, I would like to set the record straight on airport charges at Dublin Airport. In recognition of the difficult environment facing the aviation sector, the DAA froze its airport charges at Dublin Airport for the first four months of this year. Even with the recent increase in airport charges stipulated by the Commission for Aviation Regulation, Dublin Airport's charges for this year will be 25% cheaper than the €12.50 average charge levied in 2008 by comparable European airports such as London Stansted, Gatwick, Brussels, Lisbon, Copenhagen, Munich, Vienna and Oslo. There are very few other Irish service providers that will charge their customers 25% less this year than their European peers were charging two years ago.

It is also worth noting that airport charges, commercial revenue, and borrowings are the DAA's only sources of revenue as the company receives no Exchequer funding whatsoever and in fact is a net contributor to the State in the form of taxes and dividends. Last year a dividend of €19.4 million was paid to the State.

Despite being one of the most efficient airport operators in Europe, as independently verified by a number of studies, the DAA will continue to remain focussed on its cost base. As providers of vital elements of national infrastructure, the DAA must continue to take a long-term view of the requirements of the Irish economy and invest in improving and maintaining its facilities for the benefit of the tourism and business sectors. In this context, I am happy to report that the main construction phase of terminal 2 at Dublin Airport has been completed and we are now beginning to test and commission the new facility ahead of its opening this November. The Minister for Transport has confirmed that the DAA will operate terminal 2. The recruitment of 500 new staff to operate T2 has started today and members will see advertisements to that effect in tomorrow's media. The 500 new staff will be responsible for all passenger services and facilities management at T2, and will be involved in tasks such as security, cleaning, customer service and passenger processing.

The opening of T2 will transform the passenger experience for everyone who uses Dublin Airport and we look forward to welcoming the travelling public to the new terminal. Providing infrastructure is a long-term business and T2 will be used by passengers for decades to come. Dublin Airport's original terminal for example, which celebrates its 70th birthday this year, is still in use by passengers today. T2 is just one element of a €1.2 billion five-year investment programme that is radically improving the passenger experience at Dublin Airport. Our customers are also benefiting from an extension to the existing terminal, a new boarding gate facility, pier D, a major programme of improvements to the airfield, the provision of improved utilities and environmental management systems, and a new road network that is almost complete.

The improvements in facilities that we have been making to our airports, such as terminal 2 in Dublin, the new terminal at Cork Airport and the provision of a new US customs and border protection facility at Shannon Airport, provide the foundations for future growth. Overall the DAA has invested €1.6 billion in new and improved facilities at its three Irish airports over the past five years.

While current trading conditions are difficult, we are looking to renewed modest growth from next year. The long-term pattern for air traffic shows that after every major economic or geopolitical shock, there is a subsequent return to sustained growth and as infrastructure providers we must take the long-term view.

As an open, export-led economy, Ireland relies heavily on the aviation infrastructure that the DAA owns and operates to meet the needs of both the tourism and business sectors and ultimately drive economic growth. The recent volcanic ash events show how critical connectivity is for an island nation and we remain committed to providing quality cost-effective facilities for all our customers.

I thank the Vice Chairman and the other members of the committee for their time and attention. I am joined by the company's deputy chief executive, Oliver Cussen, and our chief financial officer, Ray Gray, and we are happy to take any questions members may have.

I thank Mr. Collier. I call Senator Ross to be followed by Deputy Dooley.

I would like to pose a series of questions. Would it be acceptable to ask them one by one rather than giving a long list, from which the witnesses could pick and choose which they want to answer? The Vice Chairman can stop me if it goes on too long.

I will. I want to ensure that we give everyone a good bite at the cherry.

Is it correct that DAA's auditors are KPMG?

Mr. Declan Collier

That is correct.

Is it correct that the audit fee of all its services last year was €369,000?

Mr. Declan Collier

I would have to check the number.

That is what the accounts state. Other services are listed as €353,000. What are the other services?

Mr. Declan Collier

I shall ask the chief financial officer to answer that.

Mr. Ray Gray

There would be a number of other services, but in the main they would include services in the area of taxation.

Can Mr. Gray be more specific please? I would be able to work that out for myself.

Mr. Ray Gray

There would have been a series of services on taxation within the business. The group operates in some 15 different countries. We have corporation tax and other tax liabilities. In the ongoing nature of business we take taxation advice.

Does DAA put that out to tender with other companies? Is this consultancy work or is it all tax work?

Mr. Ray Gray

It is primarily tax work.

Does it do consultancy work also?

Mr. Ray Gray

In general the company puts things out to tender. So there are not untendered consultancy services as such. On the taxation arrangements, we do not procure taxation services from one firm, but from a number of firms. We tender that from time to time.

I ask Mr. Gray to give us a breakdown. He knows what I am getting at. As he is aware, it is good corporate governance not to use a company's auditors for other services. It seems that the DAA is using its auditors for almost the equivalent amount of other work as it does for its audit work.

Mr. Ray Gray

In the particular year, they are the numbers. That is correct.

In the year before it was more.

Mr. Ray Gray

Yes.

In the year before it was actually more. It was €704,000 as opposed to €437,000.

Mr. Ray Gray

That is correct.

That is strange behaviour. It is not approved of in corporate governance rules unless we can get specifics.

Mr. Ray Gray

I would reject that. The company uses a range of professional service advisers which are chosen on the basis of tender for the various activities required. The company's auditors do not have exclusivity in any way and we use a range of professional services providers.

Can we have a breakdown of them?

Mr. Ray Gray

I do not have those with me.

Can we have a breakdown of them?

Mr. Ray Gray

We will certainly look at providing some information.

Will the DAA provide them?

Mr. Ray Gray

What we will do is not to provide all of the information available on what may be sensitive professional services, but we disclose in our accounts the information that is required under statute.

This is opaque. The accounts state the auditors' remuneration is €369,000. Mr. Gray is now saying that is not all to KPMG for audit services. Is that correct?

Mr. Ray Gray

Those are the figures for KPMG. That is correct.

So the €369,000 is to KPMG.

Mr. Ray Gray

That is correct.

Is the €353,000 to a variety of companies or is all to KPMG?

Mr. Ray Gray

All of that information is there. Some €722,000 is split between two different numbers, for audit services €369,000——

Mr. Ray Gray

——which is across a range of countries and operations and then for other services, €353,000.

The entire sum goes to KPMG.

Mr. Ray Gray

It is all to KPMG. We follow standard practices in regard to these matters, whether in the procurement of professional services, the tendering of services and the disclosure of those services.

Will Mr. Gray provide a breakdown of the figure? In my experience it is not good practice to give in one year, in this case 2008, almost double the amount paid to the company's auditors for other services — the figure is €722,000 — as it affects their independence. We have the same thing again, when almost equal sums — €353,000 as against €369,000 — were paid in the same year.

Mr. Ray Gray

On the issue of professional services, audit firms are required, where they are involved in giving services to another company, to declare their independence and review this with the audit committee of the board. That is done on an annual basis.

There has never been an audit firm which did not declare its independence. There is not an audit firm known to man which will not make that declaration.

Mr. Ray Gray

The appropriate professional ethics and standards are followed and the position is reviewed by our audit company on an annual basis.

If Mr. Gray gives a breakdown of what the €353,000 and €704,000 were paid for, I would be happy for the moment. Is that okay?

Mr. Ray Gray

That is okay.

Mr. Collier's total remuneration last year was €568,000. Is that correct?

Mr. Declan Collier

Yes.

For what did he receive a bonus of €51,000?

Mr. Declan Collier

That was a performance related bonus for the achievement of objectives.

How can one get a performance related bonus when the company is making a loss?

Mr. Declan Collier

The performance related bonuses are not entirely related to the financial performance of the company. While they are related to financial performance, a range of other objectives are set.

In this case, the chief executive received €50,000 at a time the company made a loss of €13 million.

Mr. Declan Collier

Yes, I was paid a performance related bonus in 2009 for performance against objectives which were set by the remuneration committee and board of the company.

What were the objectives?

Mr. Declan Collier

There was a range of objectives.

Will Mr. Collier tell us what they were?

Mr. Declan Collier

No, I cannot do so.

Mr. Declan Collier

It is a matter for the remuneration committee and board.

It is a matter for the public to know. Mr. Collier, a servant of the public who is paid €568,000 by the public and given €50,000 as a performance related bonus when the company is losing money, is saying he will not tell me what his bonus is for.

Mr. Declan Collier

I am saying it is for a range of objectives which were set by the board. I was deemed to have met a large number of those objectives.

What were they?

Mr. Declan Collier

They were a range of objectives in terms of the performance of the company, its reputation——

What were they specifically?

Mr. Declan Collier

That is for the board to know. It is a wide range of business objectives which was agreed by the board and against which I performed. The board remuneration committee made a decision based on that and that is the result of it.

Chairman, I cannot believe this. We have a chief executive of a State monopoly who receives a bonus of €50,000 or €1,000 per week and who is not prepared to tell the committee what it is for.

Mr. Declan Collier

I answered the question. The performance related pay relates to the achievement of objectives that were set by the board.

Why will Mr. Collier not say what the objectives are?

Mr. Declan Collier

It is a wide range of objectives.

What are they?

Mr. Declan Collier

They range from financial objectives to strategic and staff objectives.

Will Mr. Collier tell us what they are?

Mr. Declan Collier

They range across the management——

Will Mr. Collier tell us specifically what are the objectives? Obviously, they have nothing to do with profit because the company made a loss.

Mr. Declan Collier

The performance of the company, as the Senator stated, shows a loss after exceptional items of €13 million.

Mr. Declan Collier

Yes. There is a wide range of other activities and objectives which were set by the board. I was rated against those objectives and the performance related payment was, as the Senator stated, €51,000.

As a matter of interest, is the same system in place for 2010?

Mr. Declan Collier

A system is put in place each year and a range of objectives is given to all staff members in the DAA.

How many bonuses are paid out in one form or another? How many people benefit from bonuses?

Mr. Declan Collier

A relatively modest number of bonuses are paid across the organisation. I am unable to give an exact number but it is a relatively small number of the more than 3,200 staff members.

Will Mr. Collier make the figure available to the joint committee? It should be readily available. Is that not the case?

Mr. Declan Collier

The information that is required to be made available is made available in the accounts.

Are the numbers specifically stated in the accounts? It is a simple question.

Mr. Declan Collier

The numbers who receive performance related payments are not made known in the accounts. It is not a requirement. The absolute amounts of money that are paid out in terms of remuneration are absolutely clear in the accounts.

Would the figure be 50?

Mr. Declan Collier

No, I believe it would be slightly more than 100 people.

I cannot believe this. The chief executive has stated he will not tell the joint committee for what he received €50,000, other than that it is for a range of activities. It could be anything, including tiddlywinks. It does not matter. I want to know for what the bonus is paid.

Mr. Declan Collier

I am not responsible for tiddlywinks and I have answered the question. I said the payment is made for a range of objectives related to the management and performance of the company. The objectives range from financial and strategic to cost and personnel.

Mr. Collier met the objectives.

Mr. Declan Collier

I was deemed to have met a range of those objectives, yes.

This despite the company losing €13 million. If that is the way the DAA is run, that is fine. The company loses €13 million and gives its chief executive a bonus.

What is the position regarding the downgrade? The debt is €1 billion. Is that correct?

Mr. Ray Gray

Our gross debt is €1.2 billion.

The company was downgraded.

Mr. Ray Gray

Yes.

Mr. Ray Gray

The downgrade reflects the deterioration in the financial profile of the company, which in large part is reflective of the drop in passenger traffic across the airports. It is also a reflection of the regulatory remuneration system which has been put in place to remunerate capital investment for terminal 2. It is a combination of those factors.

Is Mr. Gray responsible for managing the debt?

Mr. Ray Gray

Yes.

Did he receive a bonus?

Mr. Ray Gray

Yes.

He was given a bonus and the debt was given a downgrade.

Mr. Ray Gray

I would like to put this issue in context. The DAA has put in place a very significant cost reduction programme across a range of comparators. We are reducing our costs to 2005 levels. We are reducing our payroll and non-pay costs very significantly and will achieve a reduction of almost 20% on a like-for-like basis over the course of two years. As the chief executive stated, our staff are taking reductions averaging 5.5% on a range of up to 12%. The cost per person in the organisation is coming down by about 13% in the year. A series of very strong initiatives is being put in place. Every individual, as well as the company, has clearly had to reflect the economic situation we are in.

How much was Mr. Gray's bonus?

Mr. Ray Gray

I am not required to disclose that.

I am asking Mr. Gray how much it was. It is public money. Will he tell me what it was?

Mr. Ray Gray

I am not required to disclose that. It is a matter for the company and its remuneration committee.

What in the name of God is the point of these guys coming before the committee if, when we ask how much money they are getting and where the money is going, they refuse to tell us because they are not required to do so under certain audit rules? Mr. Gray is not in front of an audit committee but an Oireachtas committee. That is the reason I am asking these questions.

Mr. Ray Gray

My remuneration is significantly lower than it was previously. We have followed the practices set in terms of board procedures and our shareholder procedures in relation to remuneration. We have affirmed that to the Minister.

The delegation is here simply to tell us what is in the company's accounts and will not give us any more information.

Mr. Declan Collier

The Senator refers to public money. The Dublin Airport Authority does not receive any funding from the Exchequer.

It is owned by the taxpayer.

Mr. Declan Collier

Yes, it is owned by the taxpayer, from whom it receives no cash whatsoever. It is a net contributor to the taxpayer. It funds and runs its own business entirely from its own revenues and debt that it raises. In the past five years, the company has made more than €600 million in profits. Last year was the first year the company made a loss due to exceptional items. As part of that process, we have reduced our cost base to 2005 levels.

I have one more question. Apparently the DAA has been involved in many property dealings. Mr. Collier linked up with Mr. McNamara in a property deal. Did he link up with Mr. Carroll in any property deals?

Mr. Declan Collier

We have not been involved in a lot of property deals. We have a total of three joint ventures involving property. Two of those property joint ventures are mature ventures. They relate to the development of property adjacent to the airport in Dublin and in Cork. They have a rent roll and their assets exceed their liabilities. We entered into a third joint venture with Gerry Gannon for property on the southern boundary of Dublin Airport. That was entered into laterally and it does not have a rent roll.

Does a company called Turkton mean anything to Mr. Collier?

Mr. Declan Collier

Turkton is one of the more mature property ventures in which we are involved which has a rent roll.

I welcome Mr. Collier and his team and the presentation by him. It is an opportunity for us to discuss the operational matters which fall within the DAA's jurisdiction. Some of the issues that have been raised should perhaps be rightly raised with the board. I would not be against inviting the chairperson of the board to discuss those issues, which do not necessarily come within the remit of today's meeting.

Based on my constituency, it is clear that my interest is in the future of Shannon Airport and to a lesser extent, Cork Airport. I have concerns about the overall national airport strategy. The 2004 Act is still law. It refers to the separation of Cork and Shannon airports. That has not happened for obvious reasons. Will Mr. Collier indicate what the strategy is now for Shannon and Cork airports, taking into account the current challenges we face with the reduction in numbers and any ideas he has on cargo?

What is his general view about the corporate structure that exists within the DAA? One has the DAA, the Shannon Airport Authority and the Cork Airport Authority. There is a functional management structure within the DAA. Where do the two boards at Cork and Shannon fit within that structure? Do they have any autonomy? Are they involved in decision making? Is there a reporting structure to them from the management? Does Mr. Collier have any views about how he might address matters in the future?

Will Mr. Collier specifically address the Lynxs cargo project, an initiative that has been identified for some time in the Shannon area? I understand quite a bit of work has been done on it in terms of considering the viability of the project. Has any consideration been given to developing cargo outside of Dublin? Has the amount of cargo that leaves this country by ship at the moment been analysed, given that ultimately it gets into the skies through an airport elsewhere? In light of the significant investment by the State and the United States Government in the pre-clearance facilities at Shannon Airport, has the DAA considered any aggressive marketing initiative to target the considerable number of private jets that cross the Atlantic and require these services? What is Mr. Collier's view in that regard?

What is Mr. Collier's strategy for terminal 2? He referred to 500 jobs. Are they new jobs or is it a case of transferring staff from one terminal to the other? The DAA is clearly in a cost reduction phase and passenger numbers are not increasing, although Mr. Collier did indicate there would be slight growth this year. Can the DAA afford to take on 500 extra staff to manage the same number or slightly more passengers? Does that make economic sense, or is it the case that the DAA has no choice because when it is operational terminal 2 will require more staff? If so, what increase in passenger numbers will the DAA have to achieve to reach a cost-neutral position on the 500 jobs?

Mr. Collier indicated the necessity of taking a long-term view. What is the long-term view and strategy for Shannon Airport? What structures are being put in place to give balance to this country in terms of providing access to the west, especially for the tourism market but also from the point of view of cargo?

Mr. Declan Collier

I thank——

I wish to raise issues relating to Shannon Airport and I do not wish Mr. Collier to have to go over the same ground twice.

Deputy Carey should be brief. I must allow Deputy Broughan to speak. I wish to be fair to everyone, especially to the permanent members of the committee. I will allow both Deputies to contribute and then I will allow Deputy Broughan to speak.

If that is agreeable.

We are under time pressure because discussion on the Road Traffic Bill will commence in half an hour or three quarters of an hour.

I will allow just a few minutes.

I indicated first. I accept Deputy Broughan is due to contribute. Deputy Carey is correct that we both have the same interest. It is extraordinary that at a time of recession executive officers in the DAA are getting bonuses when staff in the airport are taking severe cuts. There have been pay cuts, in particular for staff on the ground.

I asked questions of the Minister for Transport in the Dáil earlier on the autonomy to which Deputy Dooley referred. Mr. Collier is well aware of the fact that due to the downturn in the economy, traffic in Shannon Airport is down which has had a major effect on the economy in the region. Transatlantic traffic is down 23%, European traffic is down by 14% and traffic from the United Kingdom has also reduced. The Minister said the DAA put autonomy on hold. The problem in Shannon Airport relates to autonomy. The Minister says we cannot have it both ways; in other words, if Shannon Airport is to get autonomy then nobody is going to subsidise it and it will have to be a business and run itself. In the current climate that is not a viable option. Perhaps Mr. Collier would comment on whether Shannon Airport is losing money while it is still under the umbrella of the Dublin Airport Authority.

On the budget allocated by the DAA to Shannon Airport, the word is that it is not possible for the airport to even buy a barrow without permission from the DAA. It is very difficult for local management in the airport to make its own decisions. When the airport could make its own decisions under Dr. Brendan O'Regan it had good business. It is a problem that Shannon Airport does not have autonomy for its budget, which means that every expenditure has to be authorised and signed by the DAA. A conflict of interests arises in that regard. Deputy Dooley referred to the Lynxs facility. That should be in place shortly yet the DAA for its own reasons might not wish Shannon Airport to develop as a hub. It is extremely important for Shannon Airport to have control of its own budget. Why is it the case that expenditure even on a biro, for example, almost has to be approved by the DAA? A conflict of interests is evident.

I was in contact with Mr. Collier on proposals to develop duty-free facilities at the airport. There were problems with a contractor on proposals last year but I believe a plan is in place for the upgrade. I invite Mr. Collier to elaborate on the plan.

I will be brief as much of the ground I was going to cover has been dealt with already. There is a need for clarity. We need to know what the future strategy is for Shannon Airport. What is Mr. Collier's view on the possible break-up of Shannon and Cork airports from the Dublin Airport Authority? It is widely held in the mid-west that the dead hand of the DAA is on every decision concerning Shannon. Shannon must play to its strengths but I do not see the DAA doing that. Shannon Airport is on dangerous ground when it cannot make its own decisions. The very fact the name of the authority running Shannon is the Dublin Airport Authority gives out the wrong signal.

While I compliment the authority on its work on the cargo facility at Shannon, it has not been marketed properly. It is one of the first facilities of its kind on this side of the Atlantic but it is not used by Aer Lingus. Airlines such as Delta and Continental should be using it too. How does Mr. Collier see the development of cargo facilities at Shannon Airport?

The Aer Lingus decision not to have transatlantic flights in the winter months and the loss of the Boston connection from Shannon has had serious knock-on effects for businesses in the mid-west region, many of which used these services. What has the DAA done to protect this business service out of the airport? What will it do to protect existing transatlantic routes in the future?

I wrote to the authority on the Air India proposal to establish a hub in Ireland. Was Shannon Airport considered as a location or was it all roads leading to Dublin again?

Sitting suspended at 4.40 p.m. and resumed at 5 p.m.

We will resume in public session. I call on Mr. Collier to respond.

Mr. Declan Collier

I will address the questions collectively in terms of the subject matter. I reject any notion that the DAA is holding back either Shannon or Cork airports. In the period from 1997 to 2010, the DAA has invested around €370 million in Cork and €230 million in Shannon. In the last five years, over €100 million of that investment has been made in Shannon. A very significant budget of about €95 million is available to the management in Shannon. The management there is responsible for drafting and managing that budget once it is approved by the board of the DAA. The board of the SAA also has input in the development and construction of that budget on an annual basis.

Is the chief executive saying that there is a budget structure assigned to Shannon and thereafter the management in Shannon has the capacity to spend that in line with the overall objectives set out in the budget? Within any budget, there are certain provisions for requirements throughout the year, so it would not be fair to say that the management in Shannon has to go back to the DAA for small or medium items of purchasing that have been identified.

Mr. Declan Collier

Not at all. It is certainly not true to say that the management has to go back to Dublin to get approval for the purchase of a box of pens. There is a budget of about €95 million agreed this year for Shannon and the management is entirely responsible for the expenditure of that budget. As long as the management does that within the terms of the budget, it is within its responsibility and it has full autonomy to do so.

We have processes within the company depending on the levels of expenditure which require review at higher levels, up to DAA board level. However, it is not true to say that there is no autonomy for either Cork or Shannon in respect of the management of their affairs. There is very significant autonomy.

Is that subject to the approval of the DAA?

Mr. Declan Collier

The budgets for the entire business, across each business line, are approved annually by the board of the DAA.

How do they spend the money as finally approved by the DAA?

Mr. Declan Collier

There is a business plan developed for each element of the DAA every year. That business plan covers strategy, tactics and the wherewithal and resources required to achieve those objectives. Once the management adheres to those objectives, it has full autonomy to spend. There is no interference from the DAA in how that is done.

The view is that this is more about strategy than operational issues. That is why I would be anxious to know where the Shannon Airport board fits into the development of that strategy, because the important thing is to generate traffic and provide incentives to do that. What role does the SAA have in developing new routes, new carriers, marketing and so on?

Mr. Declan Collier

It has a very significant input. There is clearly an issue with the autonomy of the Cork and Shannon boards in the State Airports Act 2004. That Act envisaged immediate separation of the three airports, but that has not happened and the Minister for Transport took a decision at the end of 2008 to defer a decision on separation until 2011. The basis for the Minister's decision came from business plans that were developed by the individual boards at Cork, Shannon and Dublin, which looked at the individual and collective financial viability of the airports.

Arising from the decision to defer the separation, additional support structures were put in place. The chairperson of the boards in Cork and Shannon became members of the DAA board and as such, they have an active participation in all of the matters associated with the DAA. Sub-committees of those boards work with the DAA and the management in Shannon and Cork on the day-to-day activities of the airports. The Deputy himself was at a recent briefing from the chairman of the SAA to representatives on the future plans for the airport, and that is how the strategy for both Cork and Shannon is developed. It is developed from the grassroots and brought through, and I think that is a very effective system. Clearly, there is frustration on the boards of the CAA and the SAA about the delay on separation, but within that frustration there is an effective means of managing the airports and having a say in their development, including the budgets required for them.

In the period between 2004 and 2008, the strategy put forward by the board of the SAA to develop low cost business was fully supported and funded by the DAA, and was then put in place. In excess of €100 million has been provided over the last five years by way of capital expenditure, the restructuring of its cost base, and root support and incentive schemes to bring airlines in and retain them. There is a very significant interaction between the boards of Cork, Shannon and Dublin and the management and boards in Shannon and Cork. There is not this "dead hand" approach that is sometimes portrayed in the media and in the regions. However, I understand the frustration that exists due to the lack of separation.

In excess of €20 million was invested to provide customs and border protection facilities, or CBP. It opened in Shannon in April 2009 and is working very effectively. One of the big success stories has been the capture of the British Airways new business service from London City Airport to JFK. Officials from BA are talking to us at the moment about expanding that service and adding new US routes using CBP at Shannon. That has been very successful. We are looking to market the CBP product more widely to the existing transatlantic passenger carriers. The US airlines were the first to embrace this and the reason for that is very simple. An airline operating through CBP can save around $30 to $40 per passenger by clearing passengers in the country that provides such a facility and not in the US. This means that the planes can land at a domestic terminal in the US, so significant savings can be made. Delta Airlines and Continental Airlines, which are both operating from Shannon, have access to those domestic facilities and decided much more quickly to use CBP. Aer Lingus operates out of an international facility in JFK, Boston and Chicago, so it has less room to manoeuvre and needs more time to negotiate the benefits that CBP will bring.

General aviation was identified at an early stage as an opportunity for CBP in Shannon. We have targeted general aviation for the use of CBP, especially at Shannon. Difficulties arose earlier this year due to changes in procedures in the Department of Homeland Security. There has been much interaction between ourselves, the Department of Transport and the Department of Homeland Security, and we are now moving to market that scheme on a broader basis. We have brought in a dedicated and specialised marketing company called ASM that is accustomed to marketing CBP facilities. It is working on a specific programme that will be funded separately to market CBP.

In respect of cargo, we are highly supportive of the provision of cargo facilities, or any additional facility, at Shannon Airport, provided they make commercial sense. At present, all Shannon Airport's income and investment is provided through the DAA. However, were it separate, it would be obliged to go to the market and would be under the same type of rules. It would be obliged to justify to the market that a proposition was commercial. We are well advanced in discussions at present with the aforementioned company, Lynxs, and it is hoped that we will reach agreement. However, some significant commercial discussion must take place before this is got right. Nevertheless, we are highly supportive of this——

I welcome Mr. Collier's positive statement.

The Deputy can respond further in a minute.

Yes. Briefly however, I note Mr. Collier mentioned commercial reality. Has work been done nationally on the volume of cargo that leaves our shores by sea and finds its way into the air through other airports? While it may not be to the scale one might have expected, I would be grateful were Mr. Collier to expand on this a little.

Mr. Declan Collier

The DAA did significantly——

In addition, Mr. Collier should indicate when he expects this to reach a conclusion. Will it be this year, next year or the following year?

Mr. Declan Collier

I cannot provide a specific timeline. The sooner the better but I reiterate that we are in fairly advanced commercial discussions at present with Lynxs. While these discussions may come to a conclusion quickly, it may take longer and that is the nature of a commercial discussion. However, we are engaged in detailed discussions with that company at present and will move ahead as quickly is possible for both sides of the equation.

On the question of cargo generally, the DAA engaged in a fairly wide-ranging study with the Irish Exporters Association to examine cargo and cargo development because significant changes have taken place in the nature of cargo development in recent years. Things generally have moved on from the old days of what are called cargo integrators, who operate specific cargo facilities and have dedicated freighters. This is true in particular for countries such as Ireland in which there is a low weight of cargo but a high value. I refer to our pharmacy, chemicals and information technology sectors, etc. Moreover, much cargo today is moved in the bellies of passenger aircraft, which constitutes a highly significant income stream for airlines that operate in Ireland, such as Aer Lingus and Etihad.

Clearly, one needs a different approach towards and method of attracting cargo today. For example, it is of increasing interest that we provide the correct temperature control facilities and the right kind of warehousing facilities. More importantly however, one needs connectivity to the markets to which one is exporting. The main reason significant portions and volumes of cargo leave the country every day on a truck to go to the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, to Heathrow and Amsterdam in particular, is because the connectivity from both those airports is better. For example, for those who wish to export to China, we have no direct connections to that country. This is one reason the DAA seeks support to build a parallel and a longer runway in Dublin. At present, we cannot take the aircraft to enable us to connect with those key trading partners. Consequently, it is in the interest of everyone to develop such facilities for the future and this is the reason the discussion on cargo is quite complex at present.

However, there are opportunities for Shannon Airport in future. Certainly, the manufacturing base exists to support it. As to whether we can get the connectivity, that decision must be made by the cargo operators such as DHL, FedEx, etc., and by the other airlines using the airport.

Can such airlines not land at Shannon Airport? Does it not have what is almost the longest runway in Europe? Why should one develop another runway in Dublin when there is spare capacity at Shannon Airport?

Mr. Declan Collier

Someone asked a question about Air India earlier, which at present is considering——

That pertains to passenger flights.

Mr. Declan Collier

No, as I have just explained, cargo contained in the belly hold constitutes a highly significant part of this. Moreover, connectivity also is an important element. Dublin Airport is connected to almost 200 destinations, whereas Shannon Airport is connected to approximately 45 to 50 destinations. Consequently, an airline coming into Shannon Airport that is not dedicated to cargo must consider the implications in this regard. While it is an advantage to Shannon Airport that it has transatlantic connections, this does not apply to other destinations. That is the issue that arises.

There is something of a chicken and egg situation in this regard.

I call Deputy Broughan, followed by Deputies Kennedy and McEntee, in that order, after which I will allow everyone else back in. I wish to be fair to everyone.

I welcome the chief executive and his team.. In respect of the 2009 accounts, I note the DAA's cash balances at the end of 2009 were down to €638 million, which in itself constitutes a large cash hoard, from approximately €880 million in the previous year. In addition, I note the Standard & Poor's rating appears to be based on the agency's expectation that the authority would have a really bad year in 2010. Mr. Collier should comment on those two points. Is it now certain that the DAA will be the operator of the second terminal at Dublin Airport, T2, and that Aer Lingus will move its operation there in November?

Without going into the controversy again, I profoundly disagree with the salary structure that obtains in some semi-State bodies. I believe that Mr. Collier and the chief executive of CIE have grossed approximately €600,000 over a number of years. As Polly Toynbee has commented, what I regard as the cancer of those types of salaries has been imported from the private sector. Although I welcome the announcement of 500 new jobs at T2, at the same time that Mr. Collier and his associates enjoy such powerful salaries, I understand the new staff will go into T2 with significantly less pay and worse conditions than those pertaining to the airport's existing staff. Mr. Collier should confirm this.

I note that a company called Atwell went into receivership recently. It was a company in which I believe Senator Cassidy had an interest. According to a recent article in The Sunday Times, after Atwell went into receivership, the seven or eight bars in the airport were handed over without tender for operation to another company called Cavtat Limited, in which the Senator had a 25% shareholding. Is this the case and why would such an important and lucrative contract for the operation of bars at the airport be given out without a contract?

I wish to follow up on the questions asked by Senator Ross regarding the developers and the landbank around the airport. According to the Irish Independent , the DAA had a 50% stake in Turckton Developments Limited with Bernard McNamara and with Liam Carroll. Moreover, there is another company, Brooklyn Properties, in which the DAA is involved in respect of Cork Airport. Mr. Collier then mentioned Mr. Gerry Gannon’s activities, which also were reported recently in the media. In respect of other areas, these developers, who were the great and the good of the Celtic tiger era, are now all coming under the remit of NAMA. Consequently, will the DAA effectively be involved in projects in which NAMA appears to have a major interest?

I will refer briefly to airport charges. Obviously, a determination in respect of charges for the airport until 2014 has been made, as the DAA's report mentions a figure of €9.45 or whatever. Obviously the DAA is stuck with and must operate within the charge awarded by the regulator and I invite Mr. Collier to comment on that. Incidentally, the entire business of the allocation of the operation of T2 is very strange. While I acknowledge this has nothing to do with the DAA, I refer to the manner in which the Minister spent €200,000 on three accountancy companies to ascertain which organisation would be the best operator for T2. However, I understand he then obliged the DAA to pay back €500,000 to the Department for being involved in what might be termed a beauty contest that the authority inevitably won. What was the background to this payment?

While I have other questions, my final question pertains to the travel tax. The Dáil had a debate last night on a Labour Party Private Members' motion about the desperate state of the tourism industry and the fact that the number of passengers handled by the DAA has fallen by several million in recent years. I have examined the figures presented by Aer Lingus, Michael O'Leary and other companies. This is a no-brainer. Has the authority a view on the travel tax and would it help the authority? It has been withdrawn in many countries because it was a disaster, yet the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, persists. Last night, the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, Deputy Hanafin, mentioned she was in discussions with relevant companies.

Has the Dublin Airport Authority, DAA, given consideration to bringing the Aer Rianta name back? As a company, Aer Rianta International carried our country's flag across the world, particularly in Europe, brilliantly. I tend to think nationally and our national airports are equally important. Whatever must be done to support Cork and Shannon airports should be done, but has the DAA considered the name's return? It was evocative, as were the red uniforms and the atmosphere of a successful company that had been doing the business for Ireland. The image was good.

I welcome the gentlemen from the DAA. Deputy Broughan asked a question on the competition and costings relating to terminal 2, T2. Also concerning T2, what progress has been made in the leasing of retail premises and what are the extent of the negotiations between Aer Lingus and Qantas, referred to in the media as being a major player?

I welcome the 500 new jobs, as it is in my constituency. I do not subscribe to the idea that T2 was a wrong decision. Senator Ross has his opinion, but as someone who has been on the road leading up to the building and seen it, I regard it as iconic. I do not say this because it is in Dublin North. Instead, it is a facility that will make the Irish proud. We have all experienced airports that were less than up to standard, to say the least. It is only when one is stranded that one realises the benefit of an airport with a number of restaurants and bars. I am a non-drinker, so bars are not particularly important to me, but they are to the people in whose company I might be. One can also go around and do a bit of shopping. I do not doubt that the decision to build T2 was important. It was made at a time when we were anticipating 40 million passengers travelling through Dublin Airport.

The airport has a metro stop. Has there been a start on the envisaged enabling works?

I understand that Mr. Collier does not have a direct involvement in setting the charges, but he gets blamed by the different airlines. His report states that the DAA had not increased charges for the first four months of this year. Does this mean it has now increased them? Often, particularly in the media, we hear comments from every airline, large and small, that the charging structure is an issue because it is out of kilter. Deputy Broughan asked about the travel tax, but it does not impact on any holiday maker. If one pays €2,000 for a holiday, one will not question €10 when leaving or entering the country. This is my personal opinion and I remain to be convinced by anyone that a charge accruing €120 million to the country is a bad decision. Perhaps other people in my party have a different opinion.

As an airport operator, does the DAA regard its charging of airlines as fair? What would Mr. Collier tell those airlines that accuse the DAA of having charged excessive fees in recent years?

Regarding the successful US customs facility opened in Shannon Airport, what progress has been made towards having a similar facility at Dublin Airport?

I welcome the delegation. From a business point of view, everyone knows how tough the situation is. I have a number of questions on T2. I always seem to be left asking questions about conflicts. The delegates are aware of the conflict between subcontractors and the main contractor. I have met both groups, each of which stated it was telling the truth. The subcontractors stated they were owed money while the contractor disputed this. Will the DAA sort the matter out, please? Seeing people, Irish workers in particular, standing outside our main airport with a grievance is unhealthy. The DAA has a responsibility to look after the matter.

When T2 was put out to tender, a scope creep was provided. How far above the original tender has the cost of T2 risen and how much higher does the DAA expect it to rise?

Two subcontracting companies supplied and installed vital life saving elements, namely, fire sealing and smoke extractor ventilation systems. Only 90% of the work on the systems had been completed when the two subcontractors were removed. How will the DAA hope to obtain a fire certificate when the building opens if these two systems cannot be certified by their suppliers and installers? The two installations have been contaminated and interfered with by others.

I appreciate the Vice Chairman allowing me to comment. I have a number of questions on Shannon Airport. Mr. Collier mentioned that €100 million has been invested there in the past five years. I note the DAA's total investment is €1.6 billion. In the interests of clarity, Mr. Collier might provide the committee with a breakdown of that amount. If €100 million went to Shannon Airport, how much went to Cork and Dublin airports?

Mr. Collier and Deputy Breen referred to Shannon Airport having control over its budget. In the course of a year's expenditure, are there limits beyond which it must get approval from the DAA?

The delegation made reference to Lynxs in a general way. It is a significant issue for us in the mid-west — I am a Deputy in Limerick — because Lynxs provides an opportunity to use the infrastructure available in Shannon Airport. What points are under discussion, how long has the DAA been in discussion with Lynxs on this project, do our guests regard the talks as positive and when will there be an outcome? Answers would provide those of us in the mid-west with certainty on a number of issues, Shannon Airport in particular.

Does Deputy O'Dowd have any questions?

I asked two questions, one on duty free which Mr. Collier did not answer. Do the delegates know whether the Lynxs business case has been approved by the Department of Transport?

Mr. Collier has been asked a fair number of questions.

Mr. Declan Collier

I will try to cover all of them. A great deal of work is under way on the design of a new shopping experience at Shannon Airport. It is wide-ranging and examines the issue from the supply end to the pricing end and in terms of the physical infrastructure. We are examining how best to deliver this experience. For example, is it better to deliver it via direct employment or indirectly with concessionaires? We expect to have decided before the end of the year with a new offer in Shannon Airport.

Regarding remuneration, management has taken the highest voluntary cut of all in the DAA. My remuneration is within the guidelines laid down by the Department. In the past two years, I have taken a 26% cut and will take a further cut this year. Significant cuts have been taken throughout the period.

Deputy Broughan asked about the 2009 accounts. Regarding cash balances, cash is an important element of how we run our business. Our cash balance has come down from €880 million to approximately €640 million. The reason is the capital expenditure programme. It is necessary to have large cash balances in order to fund investment programmes at all three airports and in Aer Rianta International. We are retaining cash to re-finance a €250 million bond that falls due in 2011. Those cash amounts are important.

We have been downgraded by Standard & Poor's and the reasons for this relate to the economic conditions in Ireland and the results from our regulatory system interaction. The regulatory system has failed to generate the proper remuneration required to incentivise appropriate infrastructure at the right time. We keep on having to chase our tails in order to fund the investment the country requires. That is one of the reasons Standard & Poor's downgraded us.

We have been asked by the Minister to operate terminal 2 and the staff will be recruited by a DAA subsidiary. The terms and conditions paid to staff in terminal 2 will be different to those paid to staff in terminal 1. That has been agreed by the staff and their representatives and it is all a matter of meeting the benchmarks set by the regulator for the cost of operation of terminal 2.

A Dáil vote has been called but we have three minutes before we must leave the meeting. Perhaps the witnesses can submit responses in writing to the clerk to the committee if they did not have a chance to respond to some questions.

I am not happy my questions have been answered. Can Mr. Gray tell us when he will supply us with those replies?

Mr. Ray Gray

I will arrange——

Mr. Ray Gray

I will make arrangements with the clerk.

Mr. Ray Gray

I will make arrangements with the clerk.

Will Mr. Gray not say when he will reply?

Mr. Ray Gray

I will make arrangements with the clerk subsequent to the meeting.

Do members agree to what I have proposed? Mr. Collier should submit written responses to the questions that remain unanswered. The other option is to resume the meeting after the vote but most of our business has been completed.

Mr. Declan Collier

I will cover the questions that have not been answered.

This will not be the last time Mr. Collier appears before the committee. I thank him for his frankness. Unfortunately, there have been many votes today and another vote will take place after this one.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.35 p.m. until 3.45 p.m. on Wednesday, 30 June 2010.
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