I do not know how much information will be required by members of the Seanad regarding this Bill. I expect that every member has read it and that the majority has followed the discussions on it in Dáil Eireann. The purpose of the Bill is made clear from the short title: it is to establish here in Dublin an institute for the promotion of advanced studies and research. One of the immediate reasons for founding an institute of this kind is the obvious need to deal with a very considerable body of manuscript material which is available and which can be worked through only if it is systematically attacked. The manuscripts are Celtic manuscripts dealing particularly with classical and early modern Irish.
The idea of dealing systematically with that suggested another idea. As a result of the university course in Celtic studies, there are a number of students from time to time who show special aptitude and who have special ability for this type of work. Perhaps, having got a travelling studentship in the National University, they have found that—in order to obtain a livelihood— they have had to abandon studies of this sort and go into the Civil Service or the professions. In this way, or in some similar way, they are lost to Celtic scholarship. It seems to me that students cannot, after a time, be attracted by a system of temporary scholarships and studentships. What is really needed is that the particularly brilliant student with the makings of a scholar in him should, when he is available, be utilised under skilled direction for the publication of this manuscript material, by giving him conditions which will approximate to those of the Civil Service. In this way he can look forward to earning his livelihood—or, at least, to being supported —while he is doing that particular work. If that is to be done properly, we must be careful that only the really first-class scholars be kept on. There must be a shorter period, during which they will be engaged only in a temporary capacity, and only those will be retained who, under the skilled direction of scholars, would be able to fit themselves to take those scholars' places when they have passed away, and who would be the material from which the university would draw its professors. It seems to me that it is possible to kill two birds with the one stone—to provide for future scholarship and also to make this mass of material available—by having some such school as it is proposed to establish within the institute.
I do not see how this can be done in any other way. It has been suggested that the universities might do it, but I do not think they are equipped to carry out this particular kind of work. One might as well, in other countries, ask the universities to deal with astronomical research. There are observatories and universities side by side; the observatories are independent in dealing with astronomical research. This is an old idea, not a modern one. In connection with botany, too, botanical gardens sometimes have been maintained in close association, as part of the work of a university, and sometimes independently of it. You have had the Geological Survey. In a sense it is work for the university, but in order to carry on the continued and systematic work that is necessary for the fulfilment of the fundamental purposes of geological survey, a certain independent institution has had to be established. The same is true of the Ordnance Survey. These are old institutions with a modern or a scientific character, if you wish to regard them in that way. They have been governed and operated sometimes in very close connection with the universities, and sometimes outside them.
In modern times on account of the great specialisation of knowledge the need for institutes of this sort has been felt more and more. Without going into the question of institutes in general it seems to us at any rate that, in the case of Celtic Studies, there was very good reason for establishing some independent autonomous body which would be charged with the task of editing, publishing and making available for scholars the large mass of material which has accumulated. They would also be charged with the task of training future scholars and giving to advanced students, who would be interested, lectures on this subject. We felt that the need for that work would justify the foundation of some autonomous body. The moment you consider how it would be organised you very quickly come to see that a body of that sort would require to have the greatest possible amount of autonomy. If it were possible to found an institute of that sort by private endowment, it would be the better way to do it. It would certainly cast no burden on the State as a whole, but in our conditions that was not possible, and if the work has to be done it is clear that it will have to be undertaken by the State.
We have undertaken work of a similar character already. For instance, the Manuscripts Commission was set up to deal with historical manuscripts. Scholars of the university have, of course, been engaged on that work, but its general direction and control have been outside the university system proper. A good deal of the work has been done by university professors and scholars who have either been associated with the university, or found their way, apart from the universities, into such bodies as the Royal Irish Academy. We have also had to deal with the body of folklore which, it was obvious, we should set about collecting as quickly as possible while it was still in a fairly pure form. All that had to be undertaken outside the universities. It may be said that it could have been done by the universities. It could, of course, if you wished to expand a university and give it a special branch, but if you want to have freedom of operation, to have the work carried out without any inconvenience, to have immediate control of that sort, it was necessary to have it carried out by an independent body.
Only recently a small group came to see me about the names of townlands in Ireland, and the desirability of dealing with these Irish townland names. There are 50,000 or 60,000 of such names. One estimate I got was 50,000, but some others thought that the number was even larger, and I did not have the number checked up. There is a good deal of matter to be found, for example, in the O'Donovan Letters in the Ordnance Survey Office. Certain private individuals who were interested in the matter had worked in particular areas with which they were acquainted.
All that mass of material is available, and the question is whether it should be left in that uncollated state. If you want to get that work done, if the necessary funds are available, the best way to set about it would be to get a small group who are competent to deal with it, give them a certain grant, and say: "There is a piece of work, go and do it." You will have to provide that the work will be well done, that it will be done in a reasonable time so that there can be no suggestion of delay over it or no suggestion that those who are receiving a salary or an allowance from the Government for doing it are unduly dilatory over the work.
The task here, in the case of Celtic studies, will be to get the most suitable scholars of eminence who will be capable of giving the necessary direction, and who will be sufficiently energetic to see that the work will be done swiftly and well—done as well as it can be done without spending undue time over it, because, obviously, the first edition of a book has frequently to be issued with the knowledge that, on revision, errors will be found and corrections will have to be made. In the case of Celtic studies we are fortunate in having at least two men who are pre-eminent and who rank as the foremost scholars of the day in practically all branches of the Irish language. It seems to me that it would be a pity not to avail of their services whilst they are still sufficiently vigorous to do this work. They can give the necessary direction. You can also have available younger people who can appeal to them as they would to books of reference. You can get the work started in that way, and these younger persons, who would be carrying out the work under the direction of the senior professors, would be prepared to take their place afterwards if necessary. Professors are not immortal. The number of years they are likely to live is limited. We think we ought to take time by the forelock and utilise these men to get this work, which is of supreme national importance, carried out. It is not merely a matter of making available the treasures of the past to the general body. This work is going to enrich the modern language and to make its literature far more satisfying than it would otherwise be.
Naturally there is temptation to say: "Very well, you have made a case for a school of Celtic studies. You will have general agreement on that from the national point of view, but why do you not stop there? Is that not enough? Go ahead with the School of Celtic Studies, and you will get every support." That suggestion was made in the Dáil by one Deputy. The Opposition seemed to be somewhat divided in their views on the Bill. Some supported the Bill completely; some said they would support it very wholeheartedly if it were confined to the School of Celtic Studies alone. But I think it would be a pity to leave it at that. I think it desirable that we should play our part in the world in the advance of science generally. Celtic studies will appeal, no doubt, to a large number of students and scholars in all countries of the world. I hope that school when it is started will be the great centre of Celtic studies in the world. It will be interested in Old, Middle and Modern Irish, and I hope it will be also interested in the sister Celtic languages—Welsh, Scotch, Manx, Cornish, Breton, and so on. I hope that, from the world point of view, this school will become the great centre of Celtic learning, that we will have amongst the scholars not merely those who have particularly specialised in Irish, but those who have also specialised in some other languages. I have made inquiries, but I do not know at the moment whether it would be possible to get a senior professor of eminence apart from those who are available here for the various branches, but if it were possible—I think it should be possible in the first years of the school —we should like to get such a professor from abroad.
As I have said, it would be a pity if we kept to Irish alone, because it is not merely from the purely—shall I call it—utilitarian, national point of view, but from the wider point of view of the credit of the nation in the world that I would like to see this thing widened beyond the School of Celtic Studies. Now, looking around and trying to get a balance, if such an institute is to be established, one would naturally turn from what you might call the more narrowly humanistic side of language, to which the Celtic studies belong, to the scientific side, and when you think of the scientific side, perhaps the first suggestion that would come to your mind would be that we should take our part in the world in trying to advance physical research. Experimental physics would appear to be immediately the more practical and useful, but when you consider that matter you will see that, for a variety of reasons, this country has not the particular advantages which would enable it to engage in that branch to the extent to which it would be necessary for it to engage if it were going to get anything like world pre-eminence in any particular branch. Experimental science requires very expensive equipment, and it also requires, as a rule, a very large body of workers in order to be able to forge beyond the frontiers which have been reached at the moment. In fact, as I said in the Dáil, the position in regard to research in experimental physics has been such that even the great nations are themselves beginning to specialise now, and that work which, say, a couple of decades ago, would have been undertaken in Great Britain, for instance, without any hesitation, has been abandoned and left to the United States, whereas they are keeping on the particular branches in which they have made most advances at the moment and for which they are already pretty well equipped.
Now, we could not hope to enter into competition with wealthy nations such as the United States and Great Britain in the matter of experimental research. Therefore, you should ask yourself, in what other direction can you go? We have had a great name in this country, and have established a world reputation in medicine, for instance. You may ask yourself: Why not try to advance in the line of medical research? From a variety of points of view it would be desirable to do so, but already a certain advance has been made in that direction in another way, and I think that we should allow that to proceed until we can see what they can do with it. Accordingly, when you look around and survey the whole field, you will be brought back very quickly either to pure mathematics or mathematical physics, if you are thinking of the sciences generally, and, therefore, with the desire of keeping as nearly as possible to the practical side of mathematics, you will be led rather to mathematical or theoretical physics than to pure mathematics. In both these sciences this country had a very great reputation in the 19th century— let us say, in the middle half, or from the first quarter to the third quarter of the 19th century. Now, that tradition has not died out completely, and one of the reasons, apart from the general reasons I have given as to why I thought it would be advisable to balance Celtic studies in the institute by a school of theoretical physics rather than any other, was this: that it happened that there were available for the school, or seemed to be available, when this Bill was introduced, three men of outstanding ability and men with a world-wide reputation.
I have not the slightest doubt that if the school had been started and if the services of these three men were available, almost from the beginning the presence of these men would have attracted students from a number of countries. The war, however, and another matter have affected that position somewhat. I have not mentioned the names of these three men, although I think that, by now, they are known to those who are interested in the matter, but one of them has received another appointment since then, which would remove him from being what I had hoped he would be, and that is, one of the original professors of the school of theoretical physics. Fortunately, however, he is in our midst and, quite possibly, while doing his own research work, he would also be able to work in close co-operation with the school, but he is lost at the moment to us as one of the senior professors. There was a second man, who expressed his willingness to come here. He had been here already and he was quite prepared to come here again. He also was a man who had established his name as one of the foremost mathematical physicists of our time. I do not despair of getting his services yet. At the moment, it is not possible for him to come here—a certain delicacy prevents him coming under the present circumstances—but I hope that, when the school has been established for a short time, the conditions will be so changed that we shall have his services.
Well, then, of the three, we have one, who was described to me privately by one of the men I have mentioned as being probably the greatest of living mathematical physicists. It is quite true that we have only one instead of three but I hope that we shall have before long two and a half, if I might put it that way, instead of three, and if the salary that is paid is sufficient it will be possible to attract other people of eminence of that type, if we want to do so. I want to make it quite clear, however, that I and my colleagues, in being prepared to establish this institute, would not dream of doing so unless it was clearly understood that only men of international reputation would be appointed as senior professors. With them would be associated assistants—young men who would be doing research work—and, in the case of Celtic studies, besides the senior professors, there would be the assistants that I have indicated already.
I think I have given you the reason why it was desirable to have, in addition to the school of Celtic studies, another school. It will indicate clearly that the institute is intended to have in it more than one school, and the Bill is so framed that, if it becomes law, under the law it will be possible at any time, by a fairly simple procedure, to establish other schools according as they may be required. Some people have suggested that there might be a school here of economic research. No doubt, that would be very interesting and valuable. For instance, if you had, as was suggested here, a central bank, with a special research department, you might ask yourself whether, in accordance with the Report of the Banking Commission, if you had established an institution such as a central bank, it would not be better to have the research and the practical study of economics, and whether you might not have that associated more with the central bank, for instance, than to have it as a part of the institute.