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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Dec 1942

Vol. 27 No. 2

Registration of Title Bill, 1941—Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 to 6 put and agreed to.
SECTION 7.

I move amendment No. 1:—

In sub-section (1) to delete all words after the word "Government" where that word first occurs, and insert instead the words "on the recommendation of the Civil Service Commissioners".

I put this amendment down in very simple form in order to test the principle. I feel that, if the Minister were to accept the amendment and the House were to pass it, other parts of the section would need to be amended. Sub-section (1) of Section 7 provides that the Registrar of Titles shall be appointed by the Government and shall hold office at the pleasure of the Government. Other sub-sections in

Section 7 then proceed to make the Registrar of Titles a civil servant, that is to say, they proceed to bring him under the Superannuation Acts and to give him all the rights of a civil servant, subject only to the overriding proviso in sub-section (1) that he shall be appointed solely by the Government. It may be said with truth that under Section 1 no qualifications whatever are prescribed for the Registrar of Titles. He must be a barrister or solicitor who has practised his profession for not less than eight years. But that in effect may be so interpreted as to mean nothing at all. A man may be a barrister for eight years and be on the hazard and be practising his profession and never get a brief. Conceivably such a person might be appointed if we were to leave the matter as it appears in the Bill. I am not suggesting that anything as bad as that would be done by this or any other Government. But the qualifications that purport to be prescribed here might in fact be entirely evaded in so far as they mean that the person should have any real knowledge of the practice or theory of law.

It seems to me that the Registrar of Titles should be a person with administrative and legal qualifications. The section does provide that a person who has been in a situation in the Civil Service, and has a legal degree either as barrister or solicitor, may be deemed to be practising his profession. If the intention were to appoint somebody from the Civil Service, then I think there would be no cause at all for disquietude. But I do not see any reason why the Civil Service Commissioners should not issue an advertisement and nominate a Registrar of Titles to the Government for appointment, as they do for a great many other offices. They could in that a way appoint a civil servant, and I would have no objection at all to a civil servant being promoted to that a particular post. I do not want to make the case that if a civil servant were to be appointed he should be appointed by way of the Civil Service Commission, but I think the commissioners will require to issue a new certificate.

It seems to me in this case, as in many other case, that it would be better to proceed by way of advertisement and a selection board on known qualifications and experience rather than by way of patronage. I think in the end it will be less trouble for the Minister and more creditable for everybody concerned. I think the Minister is aware that a number of other appointments of a similar nature have frequently been made both by the last Government and this Government. For example, examiners in the Land Commission, and I think certain assistant solicitors in the Revenue Department have been appointed in this particular manner by advertisement and selection. I put forward the idea that, instead of the Government being given carte blanche to appoint a person from outside whose only qualification may be his political affiliations, there should be an appointment through the Civil Service Commission machinery which is used for most of the Civil Service posts. I feel that this particular person should have administrative experience as well as legal qualifications, and I am putting it to the Minister on that ground.

In providing that such appointments should be made by the Government, I think we are in full conformity with the practice laid down, as to the appointment of county registrars, in the Court Officers Act, 1926. I admit that it might be said that it would be much better to have all these appointments made by the Civil Service Commissioners—from the point of view of the Minister concerned, it would be better—but there are certain appointments, such as judicial appointments, to which the Senator referred which, I think, it would be better to leave in the hands of the Government.

Mr. Hayes

I did not use the word "judicial".

I thought the Senator did.

I take it that the Minister means that the Senator implied it.

I simply followed out the provisions of the Court Officers Act, 1926, under which the Government of the day said that all county registrars should be appointed by the Government. This is an analogous case, and I followed the 1926 precedent for that reason. Take, for instance, the question of the appointment of an examiner in the Land Commission: I presume that the person to be appointed there would be the man with the most experience. I should say that in a case like that it would be the person with the most experience who would be appointed.

Mr. Hayes

In the Civil Service?

Mr. Hayes

Yes, but it seems to me that the analogy of the Court Officers Act of 1926 is not quite complete. According to that Act, no person shall be appointed to be a county registrar unless, at the time of his appointment, he has been a solicitor, in practice for a number of years in a particular area. I had nothing whatever to do with the Act of 1926, but I was the Chairman of the Civil Service Commissioners, and it appeared, at that time, that the commission was not a suitable body to select a person for such an office as that of county registrar, particularly in the case of one who was a practising solicitor. I think, however, that it would be possible in this case, at headquarters in Dublin, to appoint a person with administrative experience and service, if it is the Minister's view that that kind of person should be appointed.

Definitely.

Mr. Hayes

Well, then, I think that the amendment could be accepted. In fact, however, I think it would be by far the best scheme to appoint a person with administrative experience, and if the Minister would accept this amendment in the spirit in which it has been put forward, I hope we will not be both disappointed.

I do not see why we should confine this to persons in the Civil Service.

I do not think the amendment implies that.

Well, of course, this House is independent, but we actually had no amendment like this in the other House. Nobody challenged the Government in the other House on the matter, and I do not see any reason why it should be challenged, except on the ground that there is no trust in the Government. All I can say is that we are not going to appoint a man to a position like this unless he has expert knowledge. No Government would do such a thing. This is a position which requires a man with expert knowledge, and no Government would dream of appointing a man to such a position unless he had that knowledge. I think that the provision in the Bill is quite as good as that contained in the amendment, and I believe that this Government is rather better qualified to make certain appointments than the Civil Service Commission. When I say "this Government", I mean whatever the Government of the day might be.

Mr. Hayes

I think the Minister has more faith in the good offices of Governments than I can share.

Perhaps I had in mind, particularly, my own Government.

Mr. Hayes

Well, this amendment does not exclude the Civil Service, and I should be glad if the Minister would accept the amendment in the spirit in which it was put forward. We have had a rather happy atmosphere so far, in the discussion of this matter, and I think it might be well if the Minister would endeavour to accept the amendment in the spirit in which I moved it. However, I am prepared to withdraw the amendment in the hope that a person with the necessary experience will be appointed.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Sections 7 and 8 agreed to.
SECTION 9.

I move amendment No. 2, standing in the name of Senator Quirke:—

In sub-section (2), page 4, to insert after the words "county registrar" where they occur (in lines 7 and 11), the following words and brackets:—"(other than the county registrar for the County Borough and County of Dublin)".

The object of this amendment is to remove a doubt which, it has been suggested, might exist. The county registrar in each county is the local registrar of title except in Dublin. There might be a question as to whether, under the section as drafted, the county registrar for Dublin might be considered to be the local Registrar of Title, and the object of this amendment is to remove any doubts on that point.

Amendment agreed to.
Section 9, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 agreed to.
SECTION 19.

I move amendment No. 3, standing in the name of Senator Quirke:—

To delete all words from and including the word "which" in line 31 to the end of the section and substitute the words "for the acquisition of which money shall have been at any time, whether before or after the passing of this Act, advanced under the Small Dwellings Acquisition Acts, 1899 to 1931".

This is merely a drafting amendment. The object of Section 19 is to apply the provisions of Part IV of the 1891 Act to any freehold registered land purchased with the assistance of a grant made under the Small Dwellings Act. It has been suggested that the words "purchased by means of an advance made" in the present draft of the section might be construed to mean purchased solely by means of such an advance. The whole of the purchase money is never advanced in these cases and the purpose of the amendment is to ensure that the section will apply to all cases in which land is acquired under the Small Dwellings Act.

Amendment agreed to.
Section 19, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 20 to 27, inclusive, agreed to.
First, Second and Third Schedules and Title agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.
Agreed to take remaining stages now.
Bill received for final consideration and passed.
Bill ordered to be returned to the Dáil.
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