There are one or two matters to which I would have referred if I had known beforehand the trend which the debate was going to take. I think I am entitled to refer to these matters now. First of all I should like to say that I agree with the case made by the "unholy combination" and that I am completely horrified by the remarks of Senator Foran. Senator Foran has decided in his own mind that everybody charged at these courts were saboteurs and black marketeers. Why then bring them before a court at all? Why not deal with them in the regular dictatorial fashion? If, however, you are going to try people, you should try them before courts in which people will have the greatest possible confidence and let the people feel that they have been tried in the fairest possible way. Many cases have been tried before the military court, but I think everybody, even the Minister, will agree that we want to get away from that as soon as possible. Certainly the principles enunciated by Senator Foran revealed a mentality which I thought did not exist amongst the members of any Party in this House, and I hope that on reflection he will change his mind.
The matters, to which I want particularly to refer, arose out of the first part of the discussion. I quite sincerely expressed approval and praise of actions of the Department, on the assumption, which was made perfectly clear by the Minister, that this was a transfer of functions, but Senator O Buachalla thought it was a landmark— in other words, that we have reached a stage in our history where we were getting away, or any rate commencing to get away, from the shortage caused by the war. Anyone who has any actual knowledge of the supplies position knows perfectly well that, in regard to a large number of commodities, the position is worse than it has been at any time during the war. That may not apply to every commodity but it applies to a certain number and any one who entertains any other idea is simply digging his head in the sand. I know the Minister has no such idea. This Bill does not mean that we are abolishing the Department of Supplies but that we are joining the two Ministries together and that we propose to carry on the functions of the Department of Supplies as heretofore.
The second remark I want to make is that there is a very great danger—and I find a certain amount of resentment expressed about it—that in a wild desire to throw bouquets at officials or Ministers, one may sometimes overbalance the praise. I think that, after what we have heard from Senator O Buachalla and Senator Mrs. Concannon, one is justified in saying that they got a little bit overbalanced. The plain truth of the matter is that we have gone through an extremely difficult situation during the past five or six years. We have not got out of that in some respects as well as we might, but in many respects we got out of it in a manner that we never dreamt of or expected. Some credit for that is due to the Minister, much of it is due to the officials of the Department, but a great deal of it is due to the shopkeepers and industrialists, who had to change their whole system, and who, I think the Minister agrees, rose to the occasion with a degree of efficiency that most of us did not altogether expect. There is a danger, when you start throwing bouquets in that way, of making it appear that one Department provided the whole supplies of the country. That is no service to the Department, because it only means that you will have certain cynical remarks passed outside afterwards.
We had Senators Duffy and O'Reilly going to the other extreme. They want exactly the same system of control as was heretofore carried on. I do not. I am personally convinced that the situation from now on will in many respects be very different from that which it was during the war, and that different methods may have to be applied to deal with it. If you are not going to get rid of control, I think the problem will have to be viewed very largely from a different angle. For instance, the tendency as the war went on was to have more and more State control in other countries from which we got supplies. That cut out very often the personal contacts between the purchaser of supplies here and suppliers in other countries. I am convinced that if we are to get supplies, we should go to very considerable lengths to re-establish these personal contacts. I can easily conceive circumstances in which a Government or Government officials in other countries might be very much more reluctant to send supplies to this country than traders in the particular country who want to get back their trade. I give that as one instance in which we are approaching somewhat different circumstances in which different methods will have to be applied. I personally have not the slightest doubt that the Minister and his principal officials realise that. I think the public ought to recognise that, and that we should not be faced with demands such as we had from some Senators for a continuance of the same controls.
We hear talk about rationing. Senator O Reilly is not a member of this House very long. If he were, he would remember that we on these benches begged the Minister to institute a rationing scheme and argued with him when he was against it. Therefore we certainly are not going to object to such a scheme so long as it is necessary. On the whole, the rationing scheme was a success but I think that in a very short time the basis of the rationing scheme will have to be changed. I personally, as some Senators know, am interested in various textile commodities. In respect of some of these, frankly I have no hope of any serious improvement within twelve months. In the case of others, I shall be bitterly disappointed if there is not a marked improvement. It is quite likely that the Department which will be virtually the same Department, will have to reconsider the system of rationing. There is another matter which goes to show the changed attitude that will be necessary. The Department at the moment provides that shopkeepers will surrender all their coupons after a certain time and then start again after a period of about two months. That method worked perfectly well in most cases because the stocks of shopkeepers were going down but now you may get the reverse position when stocks will be slowly going up and whereas in the past they wanted less and less coupons, they will want more in future. There will therefore have to be some other system instituted. So far from its being a question of maintaining old controls, it will be a question of a different system and of different methods of control. The necessity for co-operation with manufacturers and traders will be just as great.
Again, a great deal of care will have to be taken in the control of prices. That is an extremely difficult matter. The most important thing to take into consideration is to see that whatever changes are made do not seriously interfere with employment. It is perhaps much too optimistic to talk about falling prices. There are certain commodities in which I have not the slightest doubt prices are far too high. In some cases that may be due to profiteering but I do not think it is. Once there is freedom in trade with other countries prices are going to drop.
I anticipate in certain trades, especially in one in which I am interested, that it will not be long until turnovers are considerably lower by reason of the fact that stocks all round will be cheaper. It is quite obvious that the profit required to keep employees going on £1,000 will not be adequate on £500. I do not want to take extreme cases. In the past the main supplies were dwindling and we must now look to slightly increased supplies and, if necessary, a different set of controls.
One of the reasons I am particularly glad to see the two Departments together is that I do not see how any industrial development which was supposed to be the business of the Minister for Industry and Commerce can be separated from the question of supplies, because any plans for any new development of industry depend to a very large extent on the supply position. Therefore, in common sense, the two Departments should be together.