Air Transport for Export of Agricultural Produce—Motion.

Mr. Counihan

I move:

That Seanad Eireann is of the opinion that the provision of swift transport for agricultural produce exported from this country will be a matter of vital importance to our future export trade and requests the Minister for Industry and Commerce to investigate the possibility of the creation of an air transport service from Eire in the near future.

I know that there are some Senators who do not agree that air transport is a practical proposition for the export of agricultural produce. I am convinced that it is not only practicable but that it is an absolute necessity for the successful development of our agricultural, horticultural and fishing industries. I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary, on behalf of the Minister, will tell the House that he is prepared to provide air transport for the export of any produce where a demand is made for such a service. As far back as last February the cattle trade had a communication from the Department of Industry and Commerce with reference to air transport for live stock. They wanted to know whether, if aircraft were specially equipped for the carrying of such products, a demand would exist for such a service. I mention that fact to show that the Minister and his officials were apparently willing to create air transport for this country whenever necessity demanded that such a service would be of use, and my principal object in moving this motion is to show the Parliamentary Secretary and the House that a demand would exist for such a service if it were provided: that it would create a lucrative export trade for a good deal of produce which we do not now export and which could be exported if we had air transport, which there is a possibility of our being able to secure now.

We are blessed in this country with a rich soil and a very mild climate. It is most suitable for the production of all kinds of agricultural and horticultural produce, for which there is always a ready export market, and a good deal of this produce which we have not exported up to the present could be increased a thousandfold if we had proper organisation and cooperation amongst the farmers of this country. I believe it is the duty of the Government to try to build up such an organisation on co-operative lines.

There are great opportunities to create an export trade in early potatoes, in tomatoes, in all kinds of vegetables, in honey, in fish, and particularly in fresh meat. Market gardening for export is not new to our Irish farmers. It has been done very successfully in County Dublin for many years, and it has been done even for export in County Dublin. County Dublin exported early potatoes and vegetables for many years to Great Britain and even to Belfast, but since the war started they were prohibited from exporting that class of provisions, as it was felt by the Government that they should be reserved for the people of the City of Dublin. The Government, however, at the same time compensated County Dublin farmers for that prohibition by granting them a subsidy which would give them a price equal to what they would have got if they were allowed to export that produce.

New or early potatoes have been grown in many other parts of the country as well as County Dublin. They have been very successfully grown for export around Dungarvan, and in districts with which the Cathaoirleach is familiar. Acres of them have been grown in that district. The system there was that English buyers came to Ireland every year about the first week in May and bought the crops on the stalk. The average price paid, I understand, was £60 an acre. They also paid all the cost of lifting, packing and transport. The Leas-Chathaoirleach could tell the House that the same practice prevailed around Clonakilty, Glandore and other places, but it was Scotch buyers went there. The terms of sale were the same as those of English buyers who went to Dungarvan.

County Dublin farmers produce new potatoes about the first week in May, and the price realised is about 6d. per lb. When the potatoes are lifted the farmers sow parsnips and other vegetables, which are also lifted during the year. I believe it to be true to say that farmers around Rush and Lusk often realise from £250 to £300 from the produce of an acre of land. The Channel Islands derive a big revenue from market gardening. The climate and the system of farming there are much the same as ours. The principal manure required is seaweed. In County Dublin farmers often have to go seven or eight miles to secure seaweed, whereas in the South and West it is almost at the farmers' doors. County Dublin is about four degrees North of the Channel Islands, whereas most of the seaboard counties in the South and West are only two degrees North of the Channel Islands.

As the seaboard counties in the South and West get the full benefit of the Gulf Stream they never suffer from hard frosts or from the cold cast winds which are often so disastrous to Dublin and other market gardeners. Tomatoes could be grown successfully in all parts of Ireland without artificial heating. I heard of one farmer who erected a building measuring 60 by 20 feet, which produced every year a ton of tomatoes, the cash value of which was something about £200. Tomatoes require very little attention. I think the Government should press county councils to adopt some scheme whereby tomato houses could be erected with money advanced to farmers or agricultural workers for that purpose. Parsnips, onions, and all classes of vegetables could also be grown for export and would realise a good profit for the producers.

We could also export more cream, as I believe it would be very much more of an economic proposition to do that than to make butter for export. Honey could also be produced in greater quantities. It is difficult to understand why every farmer and agricultural worker has not one or two hives of bees. Bees require very little attention, and they do all the work. There is no strike, no lock-out and no demand for a fortnight's holiday amongst bees. Honey is a very valuable food. I have been told that it has curative qualities for many diseases. We could produce the finest honey in the world from the heather in our bogs and mountains, and there is always a good home and export market for it. The sea around our coasts abounds with all classes of fish, prime fish, we fish, and shell fish, the export of which could be greatly increased. All classes of fish require to be marketed quickly and in good condition. I understand that lobsters require to be marketed alive. That could be done if air transport were available. I believe that what farmers in County Dublin or in the Channel Islands can do, could be done just as effectively in most parts of Ireland, particularly on the southern and western seaboards, and that the only thing needed is the setting up of some organisation to get farmers into the way of undertaking such work. Irish farmers are not in any way lazy; they are prepared to do anything that will pay them.

There are aerodromes now convenient to most of the big towns and cities in England, and I hope that the Minister for Industry and Commerce, when in London lately, made arrangements to get permission for planes to land on these aerodromes. If he succeeded in doing that he has done a good day's work for this country. Such an arrangement would relieve a good deal of our transport and marketing difficulties, because most of the produce I mentioned is of a perishable nature, and would not stand rough handling. The British will take all the food, of every description, that we can supply them with. There is now a great opportunity to get in on the ground floor of that market with a produce that we have not previously exported.

Mr. Sweetman

I formally second the motion, reserving my right to speak later.

An Cathaoirleach

Perhaps the Senator would speak at this stage?

Mr. Sweetman

I would rather speak after the Parliamentary Secretary.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. O'Grady)

As Senator Counihan has pointed out to the House, the Department is very anxious to keep abreast of the times in so far as aerial transport is concerned, and for that purpose, the circular to which Senator Counihan has referred was sent out to live-stock traders, among others. We are aware, of course, that the time is not yet ripe for the transport of heavy goods by air.

The data available to the Department is not sufficient to enable us to form an accurate estimate of the probable cost. The only data available is that supplied from America which, as most of you are aware, has gone in for the development of serial transport on a scale greater than any country in the world. I daresay that circumstances in the States lend themselves to that form of transport because of the very long distances to be covered.

There are obvious advantages in aerial transport due to speed, as against any other form of transport, but, incidentally, there are disadvantages which are far greater. Among the advantages in the case of journeys hitherto covered by sea transport, ships, etc., by circuitous routes, a considerable saving in mileage could be effected by air transport as compared with the ordinary sea voyage. There would also be savings under the heading of insurance, because first and foremost there would be less danger of breakages owing to the much smoother means of transport. It would take less time to convey goods and there would be a saving in the charges for handling, and less risk of pilfering during the journey. In packaging also there would be considerable savings. In America it has been estimated that savings as high as 50 to 60 per cent. would be possible in packaging.

Then there is another question, that of interest charges. Goods in transit would take a shorter time and the interest on overdrafts should be considerably reduced. Another point that might commend itself to the business community is the possibility of the more frequent replenishment of stocks. It would not be necessary to carry large stocks of perishable commodities if the time had come when rates of transport would enable the transportation of perishable goods by air but, for some years to come, I do not think that will be possible.

From the data available from the United States in respect of nonperishable goods, it is estimated that the ordinary transport cost per ton mile is equivalent to half a cent. or 0.3d. per ton mile as compared with the charge for aerial transport of 70 cents. That would for a considerable time rule out the transport of heavy goods by air. The only commodities which might be considered in the immediate future as affording a possibility of being transported by air would be very valuable perishable commodities, some of which have been referred to by Senator Counihan, say, fresh cream, fresh cut flowers and certain vegetables and fruits, but even at the present time, owing to the very high operation costs of aerial transport, the possibility of making it a business proposition to send any of these commodities to the market would have to be ruled out by any business man.

Incidentally, in passing, the Senator referred to the one commodity transported by air from time immemorial long before the aeroplane was dreamt of—the transport of honey. The workers in that industry never indulge in strike action, they never seek shorter hours and they have been transporting honey by air ever since they first came to the knowledge of mankind; but when you pass from the hard-working bee to the less hardworking human, your costs go up immeasurably, and when you compare the cost of carrying honey by means of the bee with the cost of carrying it by aeroplane you find that the difference is absolutely prohibitive.

I have said sufficient to indicate to the House, I think, that the Department is keenly alive to the possibility of aerial transport and this motion will have done a considerable amount of good if it helps to make our people air-minded. We want to keep abreast of the times in this new means of transport and, situated as we are in a key position on the inter-nation communications system, it is a commendable practice for the Department to try to move ahead of the times. It is for that purpose the circular was issued which apparently gave rise to Senator Counihan's motion. I do not think there is anything further for me to say at this stage. I feel I have sufficiently covered the ground mentioned by Senator Counihan. As to the effects of aerial transport on our agricultural policy, that can be considered and dealt with at another time.

Mr. Sweetman

It would only be right to start by congratulating Senator Counihan on the assiduity with which he presented his facts to the House. He has done a great deal of research and has put up a good case. I think it was a bit unfortunate that we had not got—I feel the figures must be in the procurement of the Department of Industry and Commerce— some idea of the losses which occurred in pre-emergency days in respect of agricultural produce of the type that is quickly perishable, particularly tomatoes, as mentioned by Senator Counihan.

There must be a great deal of loss occurring through bad handling and through delay in a considerable class of agricultural produce which could be ruled out altogether if Senator Counihan's suggestions were adopted. I fully appreciate that the cost of air transport must remain substantially higher than the cost of ordinary transport by rail or ship. As I have mentioned that and as the Parliamentary Secretary is here, I do hope that our present transport costs will be substantially, and very substantially reduced. The Parliamentary Secretary gave us an example of the cost in America of a half cent per ton mile as against 70 cents per ton mile by air. If he had followed up that example here he would find that the cost of our rail transport is far, far in excess—indeed far and away in excess—of the American figure. That may be to some extent because of the greater distances merchandise must be moved. That would mean that your average cost over a mile comes down. Even allowing for that factor, you will find that our costs here are too high and will have to be reduced if we are to make a success of the business of transport. I do think that Senator Counihan made a case for the provision of air transport at some time and I hope that, at a not too distant date, the perishable goods which we want to export—not necessarily to Britain but to continental countries in order to obtain hard currency—will have a direct air route available. This is a matter which deserves consideration in the post-emergency days in which we are now and at a time when we are spending so much money on airports. I do not want those airports to be used merely as a junction or terminus by other people. I want to see them used by our own people. One of the ways by which we can make them of use to our own people is by carrying out Senator Counihan's idea.

Mr. T.J. O'Donovan

I should like to stress the importance of the points raised by Senator Counihan. This is a matter which affects farmers along the southern seaboard who engage in the production of early potatoes, onions and flowers. The production of early potatoes could be multiplied 100 per cent. if speedy transport were available. Early potatoes are almost as perishable as fresh fish. Having regard to the time occupied in digging them, packing them into sacks, getting them into the boat and transporting them across-Channel, I often wonder how they are bought at all at the end of the journey, or how good prices are obtained for them. If those potatoes could be got to the market by speedy transport, in good condition, they would command higher prices, and that would meet, to some extent, the higher cost of the transport. I do not suppose that air transport will ever be as cheap as rail or sea transport, but if we could get those perishable goods into the market in proper condition, the enhanced prices which would be obtained would, to some extent, off-set the higher charges. Production could be increased appreciably along the seaboard in Waterford, Cork and Kerry. Senator Counihan pointed out that people in Dublin travelled miles to Rush and Lusk to obtain seaweed. Along these counties, the seaweed is there for the harvesting. Tons of it are brought in by storms, and it is there to be gathered. In my young days, when early potato-growing was developing, men went out in boats and gathered the seaweed off the rocks. That was of great help at the time. Senator Counihan is to be congratulated on raising this matter, and I am glad that the Department and the Parliamentary Secretary are interested in it. The people living on small plots along the coast will respond to any indication of goodwill shown by the Department. If there is ready and quick transport to an available market, they will make use of it. I hope that this matter will not be put on the long finger, and that the Department will take whatever steps are necessary to secure that air transport services will be made available for those perishable goods at the earliest opportunity.

Mr. Summerfield

I hope I am right in interpreting the Parliamentary Secretary as indicating that Senator Counihan is, to some extent, pushing an open door. That, I think, was the meaning of his statement. One aspect of this matter has not been mentioned. We have suffered in the past because of the strangle-hold on our means of contact with the outside world which resulted from those means of transport being in the hands of people other than our own nationals. We are living in times of progress. I am sure that our up-to-date Department of Industry and Commerce needs no reminding from me that, if this projected goods-carrying air-service is to be established, a prime necessity is that it will be controlled by Irishmen and used in the interest of the Irish people. We realise how badly off we were at the outset of the emergency period when we were dependent on outside shipping. Our lot was only ameliorated to the degree to which we were able to get Irish-owned ships. I hope that it will not be long until the vision referred to by Senator Counihan and subsequent speakers will be realised and that we shall see Irish-owned and Irish-controlled goods-carrying planes using our ports.

I am glad that Senator Sweetman mentioned that those ports were designed to be something more than mere hopping-off places or junction places for those using lines operated from other parts of the world. They should be, and I hope will be, used by Irish nationals. The more they are availed of, the less will be the operating costs. Stress was laid upon the value which such a goods service would be to our agriculture. Anybody listening to the expert statement by a man like Senator Counihan could not fail to be impressed by the picture he painted. I should not be, however, without hope that, when that service is available, it would be availed of for the purpose of some of our industrial activities. I do not suppose that this motion will be pushed to a division. The Parliamentary Secretary has given it his blessing and everybody hopes that it will not be long until we see such a service in operation.

Mr. McCabe

I agree with Senator Counihan's remarks about transport, but I was more or less surprised to hear him speak of the different commodities which were available for exportation. The only thing we could claim to be able to export at the moment, or which we could have exported for years past, would be meat. People in the country reading the papers and, perhaps, reading the report of this debate, would believe that we had a surplus of stuff for export during the past few years while, at the same time, their supplies were rationed. We had not sufficient supplies of butter, cream, eggs, or poultry. We had nothing but meat for export and we did not require ships or aeroplanes to take the other commodities out of the country. For some years to come, I think that we shall hardly have a surplus of those goods for export. If we have enough to feed ourselves for a few years, I think we shall be well satisfied. There is one aspect of this question which is a matter for the Government, that is the position of our railway system here. As far as I can see, the railway system is not getting a fair deal because, if the railways were supported by the people and the Government, there would be no necessity for air transport or anything of that kind. Our producers could concentrate on producing, and the Government could then take note of the conditions under which the railways were worked and see that they worked properly. In that way, there is no doubt that if we have surplus produce to dispose of, we shall get it to its destination in proper time.

Donnchadha O hEaluithe

Tá brón orm nach rabhas i láthair nuair a labhair Seanadóir O Cuineacháin. There is one matter that strikes me in reading this motion. Surely if goods are to be transported by air, perishable goods should have priority. We heard an old saying referring to the time when pigs begin to fly, but now it seems to be a question of when bullocks begin to fly. Years before the last great war, before 1914-18, when civilisation wanted to exterminate the Boers, there was a big man in this city who carried on a big business by way of transporting vegetables and produce of that kind to Glasgow and other cities across-Channel. That man was the late Alderman Flanagan, who carried on a thriving market gardening business. However, after the 1914-18 war that trade ceased because, as I understand, the freight charges were prohibitive.

We all know that vegetables are perishable goods and unless they are marketed in fresh condition they are reduced considerably in value. If, therefore, we are to embark on any system of aerial transport, in my opinion, first consideration should be given to such perishable products. It is quite possible that at some time in the future there may be a considerable development in market gardening for the supply of cross-Channel centres. If such a development is to come about, and if we are to have aerial transport, I suggest that these perishable products should get first consideration.

Mr. McEllin

I am rather reluctant to intervene in this debate having heard all the technical advice tendered to the Parliamentary Secretary from different sides of the House. From one standpoint perhaps it is to be regretted that the people of this country seem to have wonderful ideas, vivid imaginations and an inclination to do everything on a large scale. We never, however, seem to have people of capacity to take the initiative, carry out these ideas themselves and bear the cost of doing so. There is no doubt whatever that air transport is going to be a big factor in the future in the development of international trade and commerce. Nevertheless shipping has been at all times in the past a very satisfactory method of transporting goods. We have not to go very far from this country to find an example of the way in which an efficient shipping service can deliver such very perishable commodities as strawberries and other forms of horticultural produce to markets across the water. As a result of the provision of efficient shipping facilities, it was possible to have fresh strawberries sent from Normandy every evening during the season and delivered in the Covent Garden markets at six o'clock on the following morning. That is what I would call efficient transport of highly perishable goods. I think it would be more satisfactory to consider the details of a transport organisation such as that than to talk in vacuo about transferring bullocks by air. I, for one, would be very slow to advise this House to adopt proposals in globo dealing with arrangements for the transport of agricultural produce by air until we have first organised the shipping facilities at our disposal which could provide a quick service for any produce which we may have to export in future.

I should like to avail of this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Industry and Commerce and his officials on foreseeing months ago the possibilities associated with the development of air transport in this country and the prospect of making Eire a terminus or a stepping-off ground for Europe for American travellers. Therein they displayed considerable vision and I think the Minister and his Department are to be congratulated on that fact. I think we should be satisfied in leaving this matter in such capable hands and await developments.

Mr. McGee

I should like to congratulate Senators and the Parliamentary Secretary on their sympathetic attitude to this motion. I remember that some 15 or 16 years ago a gentleman in County Louth did a very considerable cross-Channel trade in meat and cream. The service was worked so efficiently that the produce which he delivered at Greenore at 11 o'clock at night was delivered in London on the following morning. In addition he had something like 500 customers to whom he sent individual parcels by that service. I should be delighted to congratulate any Minister who would provide the means to re-open a trade such as that, which was of very material benefit at the time to the entire County Louth. Now that there is a possibility that nurseries and other horticultural necessities may be more widely established, I think there is growing need for the development of rapid transport facilities for the products of these places. In that connection, I think that perhaps the county council might sometimes get more adequate assistance. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would direct his Department's attention to an institution which I am glad to say is advertising its wares nowadays, namely, the Agricultural Credit Corporation. I am sure that with co-operation these two Departments will be able to arrive at some arrangement by which workingmen in the country may have grants and loans made to them. In that connection, of course, whenever a grant has been sought or a loan obtained, perhaps the greatest credit that a man can have is his character, and I am perfectly certain that the industrious character of the people of our country should be almost sufficient for a State Department, if they were to watch how this thing has been conducted for five or six, or ten years. If they were to do that, I think they would agree that an allowance, by no means ungenerous, would be warranted in the development of these things.

Whilst I say that, I would not like the impression to be got away with that air transport is the sole thing that needs improvement. At present there are places, even in north County Dublin, where excellent fishing facilities exist, and which are handicapped by lack of transport to some extent. Obviously the question of transport from remote places—possibly, air transport—is very important and there are many industries in some of those remote districts which would flourish if some method of rapid transport could be devised. For instance, take the example of the Post Office. If you post a letter in, say, Merrion Street or Merrion Square, it takes a penny or a twopenny stamp, or whatever it is, to send that letter to Donegal or any other part of the country. If you go down to, say, Brooks Thomas's in the city here and buy a load of timber, there will be the difference in the cost of transport according to the place to which you are sending the timber. These are difficulties that will exist until some far-seeing minds will be able to devise some way of meeting them. While saying that, I wish to be associated with the congratulations that have been given by other speakers to the Parliamentary Secretary and Senator Counihan.

Mr. Baxter

I do not like to apply a cold douche to my colleague, Senator Counihan, or to take away from the complimentary things that have been said to the Parliamentary Secretary and his Department with regard to the way they have applied themselves to the substance of this motion, but I have to confess that my comment about the motion is that while it is very desirable to have the quickest possible transport service between this country and any other country that is willing to receive our goods and able to pay for them, I do not think we can contemplate the provision of air transport services from this country for the export of perishable goods unless we first of all organise production here. Preparatory to the provision of any air transport service for the export of our goods, you must have a plan of production.

It is quite possible to contemplate a farmer on our Kerry coast with a small consignment of potatoes, and others along the coast of Cork, Waterford and so on, all trying to have these small quantities collected and transported by air, but if you are going to attempt anything like that, it seems to me that you have got to sit down over the matter first, and see really what our people can produce of the commodities which we wish to export, and also to find out where it is going to be produced, or whether it will be produced. You have to get the greatest possible quantity of goods of a similar kind produced in a convenient area, in close proximity to the starting point of the air transport services, and whilst it is very important that the Parliamentary Secretary and his Ministry should apply their minds to the development of air transport services, there is no use in talking about our farmers transporting their goods by air, unless you begin with the land itself: look at it, and ask yourselves how we can use it most effectively so that we can produce the needed goods and get the greatest possible quantity of them at a place convenient to the starting point of the air transport service, with a view to getting an adequate income from the export of these commodities. That is the first thing to be done before we start talking about an efficient air transport service for this country for the export of perishable and other goods that are required in a foreign market by people who can pay us— goods which cannot be got there at present in good condition.

Now I have no doubt that the point put forward by the Leas-Chathaoirleach is a very good point indeed. I do not know that we are going to compete with the Channel Islands and other places in the export of tomatoes to Britain. Indeed, on that whole matter, I do not know that we can say very much at present. We are not going into a discussion on that now, but if we had the Parliamentary Secretary's superior, the Minister, here, he might possibly tell us something about the capacity of Great Britain to buy luxury products from us in the future. Tomatoes—in many Irish homes at any rate—are regarded as a luxury, and I do not see our people being able to give us tomatoes at anything like the price at which people from the Channel Islands and from along the Spanish coast and the South European coast were able to give them in the past. I am convinced, however, that with regard to early potatoes, certainly, there are immense possibilities for development there which we have not yet visualised.

I do not know that there are many European countries that can produce the kind of potato we can produce. It is on a commodity like that, that I think you should concentrate, and if you are going to do that you will have to have a plan. It would be no use in having one lot of potatoes in Donegal, another lot in Kerry, another lot in Cork, Waterford, and so on, and some even in Dublin, unless you have some scheme or plan for the collection and cheap transport of them all. You have got to organise your production so that the starting point for your transport service will be near the point where the bulk of your exportable commodities will be available.

One would like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary where we are getting so far as the Agricultural Commission are concerned, or can they give us anything to go on in this connection? But in my view, in any case, in this matter we would be putting the cart before the horse, because if you start an air transport service at the present time I do not think you can get the commodities that we wish to export together at a place situated conveniently to the starting point of that transport service so as to enable them to be exported at any reasonable profit.

Mr. Foran

I think that I must agree to some extent with Senator Baxter in this matter. It seems to me that we are rather getting in front of ourselves in considering air transport until we properly organise and exploit our present transport system in this country. Some Senators, I think, made the comment that our transport system in the past has been in the hands of aliens who have had no sympathy with this country, and that obtains to a considerable extent to-day. The mover of the motion has in mind our nearest market, which is England, and I can see no reason for organising an air transport service to England so long as we have a sympathetic, nationally-controlled, cross-Channel service, as the proximity to England makes it possible for us to load our goods overnight and have them in the best markets in England the following morning. In such circumstances there is not much chance of the deterioration of perishable goods or stock, and if we concentrate on that aspect of the matter and organise our internal transport system so as to run with our cross-Channel system, I think we could do a lot to relieve the situation and to meet the complaints of the agricultural community as well as of the industrial community in this country.

No very serious consideration has been given to that aspect of the matter, and I think it should be considered before we talk about embarking on a very costly experiment to develop an air service. We have at our disposal, or could have at our disposal, a very efficient cross-Channel service, which would meet the situation very well if it were properly handled. I would suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary, and through him to the Government, that we should concentrate on developing our internal transport system to link up with a properly organised cross-Channel system. In that way we will have a very efficient service. I have no great enthusiasm for the motion proposed by Senator Counihan, because it deals entirely with export. We know very well that if we had a properly organised internal transport system, we would have a much better market. We would give our agriculturists and fishermen a good home market. Therefore, as I said before, I have no enthusiasm for the motion, and I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary and the Government will concentrate on what we have, rather than take a step in the dark because it is fashionable to talk about air services. We read in the papers this morning that they are contemplating sending a horse to America by air. I am sorry that Senator Parkinson is not here. If that were developed, it would give the bloodstock owners a great opportunity. But that is something very much in the future. We have something here at our hand. Let us exploit that. If that does not serve our purpose, we can then look for an alternative. I am not satisfied that we have exploited the transport service that we have at our disposal, and until that is given a proper trial, I have no desire to see any great effort made in connection with air transport for agricultural or other produce.

Mr. Counihan

Most of the speakers have been in favour of the motion except Senator Foran. I do not know what experience he has had of the export of perishable goods. I have had some, and I know that for nine months of the year you cannot export fresh meat to any of the British markets, without having specially prepared railway trucks fixed up with ice. I have known several exporters who exported meat to the markets in England during the time of the foot-and-mouth disease, and during the economic war, and in many cases a big proportion of their consignments was rejected in the markets. That was some of the best meat that we had in this country at that time. Of course, Senator Foran knows all about it, and would not have any such thing as air transport. What I am advocating is air transport for perishable or semi-perishable goods.

I am not talking about the export of horses or cattle by air, although I believe that in the near future that will probably come too. Since I put down this motion, I have had a good many communications from people who are very anxious for this development. I had a letter from one lady in the West of Ireland who complained of the laxity of our public men and of the Government in regard to the development of transport. She said she was in Denmark at the Dairy Conference in 1931, and at that time they were flying day-old chicks all over Europe. They were also using air transport for a good deal of their perishable and semi-perishable goods. She wanted to know why we do not do things as well as Denmark. We cannot do it, when we have people like Senator Foran who, when any progressive proposal is made, is anxious to put his foot down and have a joke at it. I am surprised at Senator Foran.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Oct 1945