The object of this Bill can be stated in simple terms: it is to provide for improved training in industrial and commercial activities through the establishment of a representative training authority—An Chomhairle Traenála —which would have adequate powers to tackle the difficulties involved. It is a regrettable fact that training has been treated as a Cinderella by many industrial and business concerns. There have, of course, been notable exceptions and it would be unfair of me not to pay tribute to them. These progressive firms, whether large or small, who have given high priority to staff training have reaped the benefits of increased productivity and better staff relations. But, as I say, the overall picture is not bright. Apathy or rigidity in the general approach to training is still too prevalent. Too often industrial training is not recognised by managements as an important factor in enhancing their production potential and so it is relegated to the end of the list of investment priorities if not completely ignored. One of the greatest assets of any country lies in the skills of its people. The development of these skills is of national importance in promoting industrial expansion against a background of increasing competition, and also in offering every man and woman reasonable opportunities of achieving greater satisfaction in their work and a better position in life. This Bill is designed to ensure that no reasonable effort will be spared in stimulating investment of time, energy and money in developing the skills and knowledge of our most valuable asset —people.
The successful operation of any law dealing with industrial training depends to a large extent on the wholehearted co-operation of the parties mainly concerned—the employers and workers. It is, therefore, a source of satisfaction for me to be able to inform the Seanad that this Bill is an agreed one. After the Second Stage of the Bill had been passed by Dáil Éireann, a Joint Committee composed of representatives of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and examined the Bill in detail and made a number of agreed recommendations for amendments. These recommendations were accepted by me and appropriate amendments were passed during the Committee Stage in Dáil Éireann.
Consequently, the Bill now before this House represents the agreed views of Government, employers and workers as to the best approach for dealing with the problems of industrial and commercial training. This is a most gratifying situation which reflects considerable credit on the representatives who participated so diligently in the work of the Joint Committee. It is, I hope, a happy augury of our future success in solving these problems.
It might be of assistance to Senators if I were to outline briefly the main provisions of the Bill. The Bill applies to all activities of industry and commerce, including trades and occupations, but it does not apply to professional occupations nor does it apply to primary production activities in agriculture, horticulture and fishing.
Activities of primary production in agriculture, horticulture and fishing have been excluded because training in these spheres is the responsibility of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and because we do not think that this type of training, important though it undoubtedly is, could be tackled effectively by a body set up to look after industrial and commercial training. I regard the term "activities of primary production" as covering such matters as the planting and reaping of crops, the tending of cattle and other livestock, the production of milk and so on. The secondary processing of agricultural products would come within the scope of the Bill, and An Chomhairle Traenála will be able to concern itself with training in this sphere in so far as it may be necessary for it to do so. A point which I want to stress particularly is that An Chomhairle Traenála will have responsibility for training agricultural workers for employment in work outside of agriculture.
An Chomhairle Traenála, the new training authority which will be established under the Bill, will consist of a Chairman and 13 ordinary members. As in the case of the Apprenticeship Act, 1959, the Chairman and members of An Chomhairle will be appointed by the Minister. The Bill provides that if the Chairman is appointed in a whole-time capacity, he will act as Chief Officer of An Chomhairle, and that if the Chairman is part-time, a full-time Chief Officer will be appointed as well. It seems to me to be desirable to include this provision so as to allow flexibility in relation to executive responsibility. Five of the ordinary members will represent workers and will be nominated by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. A further five members will represent employers and will be selected from amongst persons nominated by employers' organisations. One member will be appointed, following consultation with the Minister for Education, to represent educational interests. The other two ordinary members will be appointed by the Minister for Labour and the intention is that one of these should have practical experience of industrial education and training. It will be seen, therefore, that An Chomhairle will be representative of all the interests which have a stake in, and will be affected by, measures to improve and modernise our systems of training.
It is proposed that An Chomhairle will have power to recruit its own staff a large number of whom will be technical and specialised. Section 12 (3) of the Bill provides that the remuneration and allowances for expenses of the staff will be subject to the consent of the Minister for Labour and the Minister for Finance. The purpose of this provision is to aim at securing uniformity of salary scales in State and semi-State employment. Objections were raised to this provision during the Committee Stage of the Bill in the Dáil. Briefly, these objections are that past experience has shown that detailed Departmental control over staff remuneration operates against the recruitment and retention of staff of the right calibre; that considerable delays would occur in the recruitment of staff and that An Chomhairle would be placed in an unfavourable position vis-à-vis other State bodies which have a considerable degree of freedom in the recruitment and remuneration of staff. In the circumstances, I have undertaken to reconsider the provision to see if the objections can be met either in whole or in part. In this reconsideration I shall, of course, take into account the views of Senators.
The functions of An Chomhairle are set out in section 9 of the Bill. It will be the duty of An Chomhairle to provide, and to promote the provision of, training for persons in any activity of industry or commerce. An Chomhairle will be expected to give priority to training needs in the industrial sphere and I believe that it will be largely occupied with this task for some years to come. Consequently, An Chomhairle may not be in a position, for a considerable time, to do much in the field of training for commercial activities.
A further point I would make is that An Chomhairle will not, at any stage, be duplicating training schemes already in existence. In fact, subsection (2) of section 9 of the Bill places an obligation on An Chomhairle to take account of existing courses before it provides new ones of its own. In particular, An Chomhairle will not be taking over, duplicating or setting up courses in opposition to those already provided under our educational system. Senators are aware of the excellent work being done by Vocational Education Committees in the field of industrial and commercial education. It will be the aim of An Chomhairle, in consultation with the Department of Education, to ensure that the fullest possible use is made of both existing and new facilities provided under the educational system in the interests of harmony, economy and the optimum use of training resources which are likely to be in short supply.
In the same way, An Chomhairle will not take over existing schemes which are being run successfully by other organisations. Its aim will be to help such organisations to do a better job. For instance, the Council for Education, Recruitment and Training in the Hotel Industry have been doing first-class work in their field. This Council are representative of workers, employers and An Bord Fáilte, and are financed on a tripartite basis. There is clearly scope for co-operation between An Chomhairle and the Council but it obviously would not make sense for An Chomhairle, which will have many urgent tasks to perform, to engage in work which is being done successfully by other bodies in a specialised field. These comments apply with equal force to other organisations which provide training courses. I have in mind, in particular, the excellent work being performed by the Irish Management Institute. An Chomhairle will not themselves undertake management training, but there will undoubtedly be many opportunities for co-operation and co-ordination between An Chomhairle and the Institute.
Briefly, the aim of An Chomhairle should be to provide, or secure the provision of, training where it is neglected, to co-operate with other bodies and organisations to secure any necessary improvements in training schemes already in existence, and to endeavour to ensure that existing training facilities, both within and outside our educational system, are utilised to the fullest possible extent.
Subject to what I have just said, it is the intention that An Chomhairle should be empowered to concern themselves with all types of industrial and commercial training including:—
the training of apprentices; the retraining of adults to skilled level by accelerated vocational training methods; the training and retraining of operatives; the training of unemployed and redundant workers who have the aptitude to acquire new skills; refresher training for workers whose skills need to be improved or brought up-to-date; the training of agricultural workers for other occupations than agriculture; advance training of workers for new industrial projects; the training, where necessary, of instructors, supervisors and technicians.
Normally, An Chomhairle will proceed by bringing an industry under the scope of the Act by means of an industrial training order under section 21. Before doing so, An Chomhairle must consult with employers' and workers' organisations, and make other necessary inquiries. They will then set up an industrial training committee for the industry. This Committee must be representative of workers and employers and of the educational and other interests concerned. Their function will be to advise and assist An Chomhairle in dealing with the training problems of the industry. There is power to declare an existing organisation to be a training committee for the purposes of the Bill. This has been included so as to avoid, where possible, the proliferation of representative committees.
It is intended that An Chomhairle should, in consultation with the appropriate industrial training committee, tackle the various training problems of the industry as a whole. They would deal with the initial training of all workers in the industry including apprentices and operatives. They would deal with retraining of workers and with refresher training. They would decide whether accelerated vocational training methods should be introduced to overcome shortages of skill. They would tackle, where necessary, the problem of training instructors and supervisors. They would pay special attention to the training needs of agricultural workers entering an industrial environment, and to the retraining for new jobs of workers who have become, or who are expected to become, redundant. I believe that it is only by co-ordinating the various parts of the training programme of an industry into a coherent whole that worthwhile results can be achieved. It is the best way of providing the flexible system of training which is necessary to ensure that our industries will have the services of skilled men and women.
The Bill provides for the repeal of the Apprenticeship Act, 1959 and for the transfer to An Chomhairle Traenála of the functions assigned to An Cheard Chomhairle and the apprenticeship committees established under the Act of 1959. The new authority will have powers, similar to those contained in the 1959 Act, to make legally enforceable rules governing all aspects of the recruitment and training of apprentices. The orders, rules, et cetera, made under the 1959 Act will remain in force until amended or revoked by the new authority and the apprenticeship committees established under that Act will operate, for the time being, as industrial training committees under section 22 of this Bill.
There is a point about apprenticeship and accelerated vocational training which I should like to put in perspective. There is no question of abolishing the apprenticeship system as the main means of producing skilled workers. Neither is there any question of flooding the skilled trades with adult trainees. The apprenticeship system must be expanded and, despite the work which has been done over the past few years, must be further improved and modernised. It will remain the principal way of producing skilled workers, but it will no longer be the only way of doing so.
I do not think that anyone can doubt that, despite improvement, the apprenticeship system is rather inflexible in certain respects. For example, it is inadequate for dealing with unexpected or unforeseen shortages of skill. Such shortages can arise for a variety of reasons such as restrictions on intake in the past, the expansion of existing industries, or the establishment of new ones. Since it takes some years for an apprentice to become a skilled worker, the system cannot cope with shortages which emerge suddenly. But shortages of this sort can be damaging to the economy in a number of ways. They impose a definite restriction on economic expansion and give rise to the inflationary pressures often associated with full employment.
Accordingly, the new authority will have power to provide training courses, probably in special centres, using accelerated vocational methods for training adults. Such courses have been operated successfully for many years in Britain, in Northern Ireland and in many Continental countries. It is hoped that the provision of such courses will help in overcoming shortages of skill and, at the same time, will give men who have the necessary ability and aptitude, an opportunity of raising their levels of skill.
I want to emphasise again that the object of these courses will be to supplement, not to replace, the apprenticeship system. The nature of the courses and the number of adults to receive training in them will be determined by An Chomhairle Traenála, a representative body, after full consultation with industrial training committees, which will also be fully representative of all interests concerned. Furthermore, An Chomhairle and the committees will be responsible also for apprentice training and, therefore, will be in a position to strike a fair balance from time to time, between the number of skilled men to be produced by apprenticeship and the number to be produced by accelerated vocational training methods.
As I see it, An Chomhairle will seek general agreement on the way this problem should be handled. I am satisfied that the trade union movement as a whole will deal with the question in a responsible way bearing in mind the national interest and the good of individual workers.
There should be no great difficulty, in the majority of cases, in reaching agreement on the intake of apprentices and on the numbers of adults to be trained by accelerated vocational training methods. But we have to provide for the possibility of obstruction by vested interests. We have provided, therefore, in sections 39 and 43, that it shall be an offence, punishable by a maximum fine of £1,000, for any person to prevent or obstruct an arrangement made by An Chomhairle relating to the intake of apprentices or to the employment of a person who has successfully undergone training in a course provided or approved by An Chomhairle.
In view of what I said earlier, I believe that these provisions will be seldom used and I hope they will not have to be used at all. But we must insist that the development of our economy should not be retarded by avoidable or artificially-created shortages of skill and, if we are to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds setting up training centres, we must make sure, in the interest of the community, that the workers trained in them are allowed to work at the jobs for which they have been trained.
It is only in relation to apprentices that An Chomhairle can make legally enforceable rules. So far as the training of other workers is concerned An Chomhairle will proceed by way of recommendations under section 9. An Chomhairle will be able to ensure that these recommendations are implemented throughout industry by means of the system of levies and grants under sections 19 and 17.
There is a need to stimulate greater interest in training amongst employers generally and to spread the cost of training more equitably amongst all employers in an industry. At present, many employers who invest heavily in the training of their workers are subsidising those who are doing little or no training. The Bill provides that An Chomhairle may raise training levies from the employers in an industry which they have brought within the scope of the Act by means of an industrial training order. These levies will be designed to equalise the training costs of employers in the industry. The money received from levies raised from each industry will be kept in separate accounts and will be paid back to industry by means of grants under section 17. The basis of the grants will be that employers who meet their training responsibilities in full will be refunded the full amount of the levy; those who do more than their share of training will get a grant which will exceed the amount of the levy paid; those who do less than their fair share of training will get a grant of an amount lower than the levy paid; those who do no training at all will not receive a grant and will suffer in full the loss of the levy paid.
Before making a levy order, An Chomhairle must consult with the appropriate industrial training Committee. There must also be consultations with the Committee about the basis on which the compensatory grants should be paid. It is clear that the grants must relate to the amount and quality of training given, and that account will have to be taken of the extent to which recommendations under section 9 are being implemented by an employer. The making and amendment of a levy order will be subject to the consent of the Minister for Labour. It will be possible to exempt certain employers from a levy order where this is considered desirable. Where a levy order is made, an appeal tribunal must be established by the Minister to determine appeals by any employers who wish to appeal against an assessment to the levy.
Apart from making grants to offset levies An Chomhairle may, under section 17, make grants or loans to persons providing approved courses or other training facilities. An Chomhairle may arrange with other persons to provide training courses on its behalf and may make grants towards the expenses arising. It may also make grants to employers who undertake the training or retraining of unemployed or redundant workers at its request.
It is intended that, in time, all grants for industrial training should be channelled through the one agency. For this purpose, section 18 provides that, on a date or dates to be determined, An Chomhairle will take over the functions of An Foras Tionscal and the Shannon Free Airport Development Company Ltd., in relation to the making of grants for the retraining of workers in new industrial undertakings.
The Bill has been drafted so as to concentrate executive powers in the hands of a representative authority. At the same time, it is designed to ensure that there will be full consultation, in normal circumstances, with the interests directly concerned with, or likely to be affected by, the decisions of the authority. However, An Chomhairle will be able to exercise all its functions, except those relating to apprenticeship and levies, without first making an industrial training order and establishing an industrial training committee. It is clearly desirable that An Chomhairle should be in a position to move quickly when circumstances seem to warrant this course. It may be necessary for An Chomhairle to mitigate the effects of redundancy in an industry by training or retraining arrangements before it has had the opportunity of following the normal procedure. Again, one of the first things An Chomhairle will probably have to do is to institute experimental training and retraining arrangements in advance of bringing industries formally within the scope of the legislation.
There is provision for the financing of An Chomhairle by means of non-repayable grants. It is clear that the effective discharge of its functions will involve An Chomhairle in considerable expenditure but it is not possible at present to give any estimate of what this is likely to be. We do know that the capital cost in Northern Ireland of building and equipping an industrial training centre capable of handling at the same time 300-600 trainees, depending on the occupations involved, is of the order of £500,000. We know, too, that they are spending close to £800,000 a year in the North on industrial training. So, despite the beneficial effects which we hope for from the levy-grant system, it is clear that if we make a major effort in this field, we are also going to incur heavy expenditure. This we are prepared to do because we recognise the key role which training has to play in the future development of our economy.
I do not think that anyone will quarrel with the principles underlying this Bill or with the objectives which it sets out to attain. I am confident that the Bill now before the House provides the machinery for tackling the job of providing adequately for our training needs. The successful operation of that machinery will depend on the voluntary co-operation of employers and workers. The manner in which these interests have co-operated in framing the Bill leads me to believe that there will be continued co-operation in the administration of the measure and a very substantial contribution will thus be made towards the effective development of our manpower resources.