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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 6 Mar 1985

Vol. 107 No. 8

Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, 1985: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

In an effort to be orderly in a disorderly House I will continue. We are opposed to the Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill on a number of grounds. Much heat has been generated here and in the other House in regard to this Bill. I do not intend to add any fuel to the overfuelled fires we have all over the country.

It is a Bill which has been given major importance because of the attitude of the media at a time when the blight of unemployment is upon this country, when the blight of unemployment is killing the incentive of people to employ others, when young people are losing hope, when parents are not seeing their children's educational aspirations being fulfilled. We see a country in which the plight of the underprivileged is being ignored and we bring in a Bill such as this. The only two things that this Bill will do will be to provide ready availability of contraceptives to 18 year olds and over and, equally, legitimise what was up to now an illegal group of family planning clinics.

We are giving legality to something which has been illegal for a number of years. There is no point in anybody getting up in this House and suggesting that this Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill is anything else but giving legality to what was illegal until now. Is it any wonder that people outside this House have lost respect for politicians and for political institutions when they see that the only way they can get action is to set up, as was done in the family planning clinics, an illegal organisation which suddenly finds itself legitimised? We have the same situation in relation to illegal broadcasting. The Government parties cannot decide which illegal station will get status under the new Bill.

When I say the blight of unemployment is upon this land it is quite obvious that the Government have taken no steps to give hope to the young people or to give hope to those who are 40 years of age and over, who have been working in companies for many years and now find themselves on the unemployment heap from which they will never come down. We are given a Bill which will give two and a half days work for £70 a week, which is not work under the Employment Acts, the Trades Union Acts——

On a point or order, due to the concern expressed by Members of this House earlier today at the failure of this House to get through business they want dealt with I would like to know what Senator Lanigan is saying has to do with the Bill we are now discussing. He is totally out of order as it has nothing to do with the Bill before the House.

I am allowing the Senator to make a passing reference to it and that is all he is doing.

If the Senator is so knowledgeable about the rules and procedures of this House the next speakers will have to get rid of their scripts before they come into this House. If he is so worried about the rules and privileges of this House he should come in without a prepared speech on the next item he is going to speak on. There is no doubt in my mind but that this Bill has everything to do with the plight of unemployment and the plight of people who are underprivileged. Obviously Senator Durcan does not go along to ordinary clinics and deal with people who are——

I cover many hundreds of miles per month and I am dealing with the problems that previous Governments left unresolved in my constituency.

It might be in everybody's interest if Senator Lanigan came to the Bill.

I presume the Senator is one of the people driving around the country advertising clinics.

Senator Lanigan on item No. 1.

I suggest that this Bill will do nothing for the unemployed. Equally it will do nothing for the plight of people who have marriage problems, and it will do nothing for people who are in bad homes. It will do nothing except, as I have said, legitimise family planning clinics and equally give total access to contraceptives to people of 18 years of age and under. I have no doubt that nobody will be able to assess the age of a person at 18 unless that person produces a birth certificate, I cannot see anybody going in with a birth certificate saying: "I am 18 years of age, may I please have my packet of contraceptives?"

We have major problems of morality, sexuality and family law and this Bill will not do anything to solve the problems our society is attempting to deal with. It will give to certain people the idea that, because contraceptives are available, they will have to be used. It will take away from certain young people the normal growing up process, the normal fumblings of young people in their quest for what would be considered normal sexual growth. This Bill was brought in at a time when we were discussing the impact of the budget on the majority of the people, the impact of a budget which was supposedly a give-away budget. It is only now that people are beginning to realise the many ways that budget is impinging on their lives because of increased costs due to VAT increases.

I am afraid the Senator is widening the scope of the debate.

The Bill is a smokescreen that was brought up at a time of grave national problems. Unfortunately, every second we speak here more publicity is being given to a Bill which has very little relevance in terms of solving our problems but which has major implications in the attitude of our people towards sexuality. A lot has been made of the pressures that have been put on public representatives to support or not to support this Bill. I have heard the greatest hypocrisy from people who have been on the political hustings for many years saying they were intimidated by people who are opposed to this Bill. Anyone who has ever stood for an election has been intimidated in one way or another. Any politician who would not accept a representation from whatever source is not fit to be in the House. If people cannot take representations they are not fit to be in politics.

Much has been made of the attitude of the Bishops. They are right to come out in opposition to this Bill. I am not suggesting that they are right in attempting to change the attitude of politicians. They would not be doing their job if they did not come out in opposition to the Bill. The Catholic Church preaches, quite categorically, that artificial contraception is against the rules of the Church. If the Church leaders did not come out and oppose the passing of this Bill they would not be doing their job. Politicians who say the Bishops were putting undue pressure on them are immature politicians.

The same type of pressure was put on people to agree with this Bill. Suddenly the people who are opposing this Bill are considered to be cranks and right wing and the people who agree with the Bill are radical and modern. Why should people be radical or modern because they agree with this Bill? Why should people be considered cranks or right wing, a throw-back from the thirties, if they oppose it? Our attitude to this Bill is that it is unnecessary. It will not help the situation of young people. The only thing it will do is to legitimise family planning clinics. I sincerely hope that I will not have to come into this House again to say that any Bill will legitimise something which has been illegal. The amendment is unnecessary. It is divisive and it will not do anything for the promotion of family or sexual life in this country.

I welcome the opportunity, as many other Members have, to make a contribution to this Bill. Before Senator Lanigan spoke I had referred to the fact that much of the debate that has taken place in both Houses up to now has diverted away from the real legislation, the real amendment involved. Such diversions into a far wider plain of social and economic problems in some places, with regard to references to unemployment, are a tactic used by the Opposition in this House and in the other House to divert attention from the real amendment proposed. We know the Bill is a minor amendment.

It can be said that what the Opposition are doing is nothing short of political opportunism. I believe that not only the electorate but many Members of this House also have recognised it as such and I hope that when the opportunity comes to give a judgment on that tactic the electorate will duly do their work. If the debate had strictly gone along the lines at issue it would have been far more constructive, reasonable and supportive of the Minister. I want to compliment the Minister on the courageous steps he has taken in bringing forward this Bill, not because it makes contraceptives freely available to all, as might be interpreted from many of the comments, but because it regularises an intolerable situation. The present situation, whereby it is claimed that contraceptives are freely available, is being changed. Senator Lanigan's reference to the fact that it is not necessary to change the present law seems to be the perfect Fianna Fáil approach of an Irish solution to an Irish problem. The Government and the Minister responsible for bringing in this legislation have been courageous and must be complimented for that action.

The tactic has been used whereby for emotive reasons the title of the Bill has been changed, glibly and for no other reason than to bring public opinion against the proposed legislation and to bring in many of the pressure groups that have a legitimate right — up to a point — of making their case known, and produce a rash of material of which every Member of the Oireachtas, both in the Dáil and in the Seanad has had a full supply for this debate and much of it totally incorrect. I will quote from one such circular from my own constituency:

We are surprised and angry at the proposed changes to the Health Family Planning (laws) which the Minister of Health has suggested. We strongly object to the sale of contraceptives of all kinds in shops, supermarkets etc.

Those people who are supposed to be giving their opinion on this legislation got something in the region of 300 signatures beneath that paragraph which they went to the trouble of producing but they would have been far better off had they spent some time examining the proposed legislation, examining the previous legislation, working out the present position and what has gone wrong.

That type of literature has been sent to many people. It has been done on an organised basis by pressure groups and, in some cases, concerned people — we have to acknowledge that there are parents and others who are concerned about what this legislation would do. No one can legitimately say that this Bill provides for the first time for the availability of contraceptives to young people under 18 years of age: that is not so. The 1979 Act provides that a doctor can prescribe condoms not only for bona fide family planning but also for adequate medical reasons without limitation of marital status or of age. This legislation tightens up that very vague piece of legislation. We have heard time and again in this debate that nobody has yet defined "bona fide family planning". I do not believe it has been defined yet.

Now the proposal is that there will be a legal limit to the availability of contraceptives to those of 18 years and over. Much play has been made by the Opposition, and other people who oppose the legislation, of the fact that it will never be implemented; that it will be impossible to implement. Where have all those conscientious people gone since 1979 when 30 million to 40 million condoms were imported? We do not know who has used them or how freely available those contraceptives were in any area, in any place in Ireland. It is time that some people examined the reality of this legislation and stuck rigidly to the points in question and then agree that what is actually being done is an improvement on the 1979 legislation.

We have, for the first time, legitimate outlets for dispensing contraceptives. Doctors, health boards, certain maternity hospitals and so on, may dispense them. The people who oppose this legislation are questioning the very integrity of those people and their capability of deciding who is entitled to them under this new legislation. There is no doubt that, as before, certain people will ask why they should get involved in this legislation by being outlets for distribution. There is no doubt that certain chemists will have a conscientious objection to proceeding along the lines set out. I would ask the Minister to ensure that before the actual implementation of the Bill takes place, when it has passed through this House, there will be consultation with all people listed with regard to the available outlets for contraceptives and that the Minister will be reasonable enough to recognise that there are certain people in Ireland who will have difficulty in adhering to the provisions of the Bill. I hope that the Minister will give time to consult with these various groups, let them have their say and come to a reasonable solution if there are difficulties there.

From many of the utterances in the other House, and the divergence I have referred to, it would be imagined that from the day on which this Bill is enacted the public, and particularly the youth, will be fed solely on a diet of contraception. I reject that and say that such expressions are alarmist in the extreme. The most unfortunate episode of all with regard to this is that it inflicts on the youth of Ireland a damnation as to their future ability to decide for themselves what is right or wrong. Unlike many of the Opposition speakers I have the utmost confidence in our youth to decide for themselves, as they have done before this, as the youth of other countries have done, whether they want to use contraceptives or not. It is a pity that the main Opposition party took that line. They have said in both Houses that if there is any future for the youth of Ireland it lies in the hopes of the Opposition. Categorically time and time again, the eight or ten speakers from the Opposition benches have said that our youth are put into a situation where they will not be able to decide. I think the Opposition are unfamiliar with the attitude of our youth and the responsibility which young people have shown down the years. The young people of Ireland are capable of making positive decisions at present.

It was stated that we we are going to embark on the slippery slope of decadence, promiscuity and so on. If that is so, what has happened? We have statistics quoted from other countries whose society cannot be compared to our society here. The moral fabric of those other countries is not the same as ours and to quote their statistics is not comparing like with like in any way. We have a Catholic community in Ireland: I refrain from saying that we have a Catholic State because this debate has attempted to bring confrontation and highlight confrontations that could exist between the State and the Church. The people who embarked on that attitude from the beginning, as Fianna Fáil obviously did by their opportunistic ploy — before this Bill was ever published they decided to oppose the legislation — must have been hypocritical. They decided to oppose it because, they said, what they had in 1979 was adequate. It was no time to do this in the bad economic state we are in at present. There was no wide clamour for change. Concealed underneath all of that must have been a hypocritical attempt to cover up reality as it exists in our society today.

The other tactic that was used was an effort to bring serious criticism and serious confrontation between Church and State. Every speaker who has stood up here and also in the other House has categorically stated that the Church, through the Bishops in their teaching on Catholic morals had the right in the strongest possible terms to give their opinion to their flock, to their Catholic community within the State. But it would be unfair to say that there were not some individuals within that group who did not, in their first salvoes across the bows of this legislation, try to in some way intimidate or divert the attention of the legislators and ask them by word or deed to oppose it. It was unfair, therefore, of the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. MacNamara, to make the particular statement he did at the particular time he did. He made it as an individual speaking to the Catholic community at home and I hope his intention was not to divert the attention of the legislators away from the work they had to do. As far back as April 1978, the Bishops' Conference said on the matter of contraception, and I quote:

It does not necessarily follow from this that the State is bound to prohibit the distribution and sale of contraceptives. There are many things which the Catholic Church holds to be morally wrong but which it has never suggested should be prohibited by the State, Those who insist on seeing the issue purely in terms of the State enforcing or not enforcing Catholic moral teaching are missing the point.

I would say that there is no consistency between that and the utterences of the Archbishop in his statement on that matter. The most recent published Bishops' Pastoral Love is for Life outlines very clearly and forcibly the Catholic Church's teaching on contraceptives. In fact the paragraph heading is “The Contraceptive Mentality” and that, I believe is an unfortunate heading for a section within any pastoral letter, because we have heard here, time and time again in the debate that we seem to have a contraceptive mentality in Ireland today and that things are sliding down the slippery slope. I would not accept that. With the permission of the Leas-Cathaoirleach, I will read the most recent statement of the Bishops through their recent Love is for Life pastoral issued in the past few days. It says:

One great factor in the contemporary revolution in sexual behaviour is the introduction of contraceptives and their constantly wider and freer availability. It is more than half a century now since Bertrand Russell declared that contraceptives call for a completely new ethic of sex. It has become clear in recent times how radically "new" this ethic is, and how deeply it is in conflict with Christian tradition.

In paragraph 97 it says:

Contraceptives are in essence divisive of what God has united. Primarily and directly contraceptives separate sexual intercourse from its intrinsic openness to life giving. Contraceptives also increase the propensity and the temptation to separate sex from fidelity.... They facilitate the separation of sex from love. They make it easier to separate sex from marriage. Much of what is nowadays called "family planning" has no relevance either to marriage or to family.

Much of what has been said in the debate goes very clearly along the same lines, in many cases a vague line, that the Church has to do its duty to define its faith for its flock, but it has left it there. In 1978, it made a pronouncement and in 1985 it has made its pronouncement in this recent letter. It is a pity that this document was not freely available to everybody before this debate began in either of the Houses and that the timing seemed to clash, because people would get a more balanced view of the Catholic Church's idea and its absolute and total opposition to contraception within Catholic teaching and it would put more clearly the job that has to be done by the Houses of Parliament in this country to provide for the legal aspects of it. Anybody who thinks or tries to divert attention away from what this Bill is trying to do, and to make it a moral issue or make it an economic issue has missed the point because there are only legal implications here and the individual still has the right to adhere to his own Church's teaching.

Many people have been put under extreme stress and strain, particularly in the other House. We are delighted that the debate in this House has taken place in an atmosphere of calm and that no Member of this House has received intimidatory literature or has received threats of any kind from members of society who took it upon themselves to be the voice of conscience within the country. The debate in this House has been seen to carry on with free expression of the opinions of the various people who made their contributions. The fact that people have threatened to watch our antics, and watch our support or opposition to this Bill and to use that at election time has a serious implication for democracy within this country. It is unfortunate that the people who made it probably made it at that time off the cuff and speedily and on an emotive basis. But if our views, as we express them honestly to this House, are to be noted for no purpose other than to be used against us, favourably or unfavourably, at a future date when we choose to go before the electorate, it is a sad day for democracy in this country in 1985.

I will finish, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, by saying that I believe that this legislation is necessary to tighten up a situation that has existed of providing an "Irish solution to an Irish problem." Though I have said before that people may run the gauntlet of criticism by the electorate at a future date, I believe that, if some sacrifice has to be made electorally to ensure that the Bill goes through and to show that legislation in this country is separate from Church affairs, sacrifice will be worthwhile. Thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

I should like to start by talking about what this Bill is actually doing, because to listen to some of the speeches that have been made about it one would think that it purported perhaps to be a cure for unemployment or even, to listen to Senator Lanigan, possibly that it was bringing forward the idea that we would have to join a trade union to use contraceptives; and to listen to other speeches one could only think that it is causing total hysteria about incipient depravity and the free handing out of contraceptives to small children and so on. So that I think when one considers the Bill in, as Senator Burke has said, an atmosphere of calm, one must start by looking at what it is actually doing. Here I would suggest that what it is doing is at least making an attempt to provide what the Minister described in his Second Stage speech as an appropriate legal framework for the provision of a comprehensive family planning service.

When one looks at the details of the Bill, one of the major changes is the change in the people who will be able to make family planning advice and family planning methods available to the public and this, I think, it a major step forward from the present situation where a doctor's prescription is required for the provision of condoms and family planning methods of that kind. If we look at the Minister's speech and at the Bill we find that doctors will be entitled to sell contraceptives at the places where they ordinarily carry out their professional duties. We find that employees of health boards will be able to sell them at a health institution, which would include hospitals and health centres. We find that persons who have received the Minister's consent to provide a family planning service will be entitled to sell contraceptives at the place where they are providing the service — in other words, places such as family planning clinics which are already providing this sort of service — and finally that employees in certain hospitals will be allowed to sell contraceptives and in particular maternity hospitals where contraceptive advice is most likely to be in demand and most likely to be needed, and in hospitals treating patients with sexually transmitted diseases.

Now when we look at this, which one of these groups are being castigated by the opposition to this Bill, both inside and outside the Oireachtas, as being totally irresponsible, as being the kind of people who would hand out contraceptives freely to 12 and 13 year olds, as being the kind of people who will start this country on the slippery slope to depravity, as being the complete destroyers of our social fabric? These are the kind of wild and hysterical accusations that are being made. Let us look at them again. The family doctors — are they really likely, knowing their patients, knowing the people around them, to behave in this way? Are the health centres? Are the hospitals? Are the family planning clinics, who are already providing a responsible service and providing it in response to a demand in places where no other service exists? It seems to be utterly ridiculous to suggest that any one of these designated sets of people are likely to behave in the kind of totally irresponsible and totally depraved fashion that the opposition to this Bill suggests.

The second main change is that particular forms of contraceptives, that is sheaths and spermicides, can be sold to persons of 18 years of age and upwards, but by the same designated people. It is not a question — the previous speaker has also drawn attention to this — of putting contraceptives on sale in supermarkets or even on the counter in every chemists' shop or whatever and allowing anybody and everybody to come in and buy them. Again, it is only the designated persons who are involved and the fact that it has given rise to such hysteria to think that these designated persons should be allowed to sell condoms and spermicides to young adults of 18 years of age and upwards seems completely strange to me. I will make a reference later to the attitude to young people that is inherent in the opposition to this Bill, but for the moment I will content myself by saying that it seems extraordinary that these designated persons are being so slandered by the opposition both inside and outside the House with regard to the way in which such persons are about to behave if this legislation is passed — which I hope it will be.

Secondly, another argument advanced against this Bill has been lack of demand. Now, we have seen the statistics about the importation of 30 million condoms since November 1980 and of course that does not take into account the many more that come in by way of personal importation. This shows a considerable level of demand for family planning devices. There is also the experience of the family planning clinics and I think particularly telling in this area has been the experience of the family planning clinic in Limerick. I mention it specially because Limerick has been the city out of which many salvoes of theological indignation have been fired against the Bill.

The family planning clinic in Limerick has many thousands of queries for family planning advice and for family planning methods and these queries come from many areas in the country outside Limerick. They come from as far east as Waterford. They come from all sorts of rural areas in the country where a full service is not available due to the attitude of local doctors or local chemists. It is undoubtedly true that all the family planning clinics are providing a very big service to people who cannot or do not wish to go for prescriptions to their local doctor or do not wish to deal with chemists who may have their own conscientious objections.

The experience of the family planning clinics shows the level of demand. I might add that it is also clear from the experience of the family planning clinics that the demand is not limited to people who are married or for what is coyly described in the present legislation as bone fide family planning, whatever that may mean. This leads me on to another indication of the demand and that is the widespread breaking of the present law.

We are all aware, at least those of us who are living in the same world as young people and those of us who are living in the ordinary day-to-day world rather than in some kind of heavenly place that knows nothing about what is going on among ordinary people in this country, that there is widespread breaking of the present law. It has been broken, for instance, in our third level educational institutions. Nothing has been done to deal with this through criminal law. I am not suggesting that something should be done but the reason why nothing has been done is that those in authority are perfectly well aware that the present position is reflecting the mores and the beliefs of society and that the present law is regarded as a joke by a very large section of the population. There has not been what I might call a head of steam in the demand for contraception for a change in the law precisely because there is widespread contravention of the law.

I had occasion to be in Northern Ireland over the last few weekends and I carried out a survey among general practitioners in Northern Ireland whom I knew had been supplying contraceptive advice and family planning advice to people coming from the South over many years. Those to whom I spoke told me that the situation had changed. They were no longer getting people coming from the Republic for this sort of advice. The reason was quite clearly that they had the advice and the devices available to them in the Republic. This clearly shows that there is a demand which is already being met whether through the family planning clinics or through evasion of the law. The demand is most certainly there. It is not a question of people marching on the street about it.

There has been a very clear demand from the medical profession that they should be freed from the obligation to provide prescriptions for condoms. There has been a clear, unequivocal demand from them that the law be changed in this way. This has not been a matter of people marching or demonstrating for a change in the law. There are two major reasons for that: first, their demand is being met, legally or illegally — I would suggest largely illegally — and second, in rural areas where problems arise for married people in the context of their marriages, there is no way those people will march on the streets of a provincial town or village with banners saying, "We want condoms." Let us be realistic. They may suggest to the legislators that they feel the law should be changed and may make it clear that they need it changed because they have to travel far away to family planning clinics to get the advice they need. This problem is usually left to the wife and for her to do that sort of thing in rural Ireland is just unrealistic. It would be embarrassing and leave her open to all sorts of attack. To suggest that because there has not been this sort of demand there is no demand for this legislation is just ridiculous.

It has been suggested that because of the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church in this debate there is confrontation and a conflict of demand as between the members of the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant or other minority religions. I do not know whether it has been suggested that all 30 million imported condoms are being used by the members of the minority religions. If so, it is a tribute to their energy. This is a very mistaken way of looking at it. It is very easy to say, as some Deputies said, that 95 per cent of the people are Catholics and democracy shows that the majority must rule, therefore the majority must bring in Catholic legislation. If we look at society at present we see that this is manifest nonsense. It is not a question of a conflict between the minority religions and the Catholic population. There are at least three major groups who would not agree with the present law on contraception and who would not necessarily agree with the position of the Roman Catholic Bishops who spoke out on this matter. First of all, there are, of course, the minority religions who have their own attitudes to these matters.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I am sorry to interrupt but I have a motion from Senator Lanigan of which he has given me notice under Standing Order 29.

Debate adjourned.
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