Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 7 Dec 1989

Vol. 123 No. 11

Committee of Selection: Second Report.

Mr. Naughten

The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated the following members to serve on the Joint Services Committee: Senators Eddie Bohan, Seán Byrne, Michael Finneran, Jack Harte, Carmencita Hederman, Charlie McDonald, Brian Mullooly, Joe O'Reilly and Donie Ormonde; the following members to serve on the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities: Senators Avril Doyle, Willie Farrell, Thomas Hussey, Rory Kiely, John A. Murphy, Tom Raftery and Eoin Ryan; the following members to serve on the Joint Committee on Women's Rights: Senators Olga Bennett, Mary Jackman, Helen Keogh, Don Lydon, David Norris and Joe O'Reilly; the following members to serve on the Joint Committee on the Irish Language: Senators Tom Fitzgerald, Eamon Ó Cuív, Pól Ó Foighil and Brendan Ryan; the following members to serve on the Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies: Senators Paddy McGowan, Mick Lanigan, Dan Neville and Shane Ross; the following members to serve on the Joint Committee on Standing Orders: Senators Tras Honan, Patrick Kennedy and G. V. Wright.

I move: "That the Report be laid before the Seanad."

Mr. Manning

I have two very brief observations on that. I am quite concerned that the distribution between parties in this House of members of the committees means that the Labour Party with four Members is represented on only one of the six committees. There is a distortion which may well be explained by the system which is used to allocate the distribution of seats. I am not being invidious. I would like some more committees. It is strange that the Independent group with six Members are on five committees, Labour with four Members are on one committee. There is a distortion. I am not imputing blame or anything like that, but it is something to which the House should address itself as soon as possible. I do not think it is right that the Labour group should be represented on only one committee — I am not saying that the Independents should have fewer members but some means should be found to increase proportionately the size of the Labour representation on the committees of the Oireachtas. Second, I am sure Senator Ross will get a very warm welcome from the Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies, on which he had such extravagant and colourful things to say just a week or two ago.

Mr. Ross

I rise to respond to that. I do not intend to make a speech of a controversial nature. The Labour Party should have more representation on these committees, but it is very difficult to find a formula which satisfies everybody without committees becoming very unwieldy and large. I do not know if it is normal for the Leader of the House to be on a committee, but I welcome him very warmly to the Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies.

Mr. Manning

The Senator has a voice.

Mr. Ross

I notice that he is the only person out of alphabetical order in the list, so it appears he was put on at a later stage. I would like to ask the Leader of the House if——

Mr. Lanigan

I want to stop any distortion of the truth that might occur in this House by former Members——

Mr. Ross

While I warmly welcome the Leader to the Committee, I hope he feels he is not only up to it, that he will have the time to devote to it in order to make a serious contribution to the committee. I hope he and the Coalition Whip, Senator McGowan, will be able to contribute to the reform of that particular committee during the next period.

Finally, I would like to refer to the distribution of places on these committees. I would like to raise the proportionate allocation on the Anglo-Irish tier that would be included, if we are going to reform the ways——

Acting Chairman (Mr. McMahon)

That does not arise on this matter.

Mr. Ross

I am responding to Senator Manning's remark about the way seats are distributed on committees. If we are going to reform the proportionality of this, we should also presumably reform the proportionate way the seats on the Anglo-Irish tier are allocated, and why Independents are excluded. I agree with him on the Labour Party being excluded from the committees. This is a great pity. The Labour Party should be included on all of the committees because they have a great contribution to make. If we are going to do that, then we should consider the Independents in both the Dáil and Seanad being accepted on to the Anglo-Irish tier. This is something which has not been taken into consideration.

Acting Chairman

That does not arise here.

Mr. Lanigan

I have to respond to a suggestion made by the esteemed Senator Ross in connection with my attendance at committees, and whether I would or would not be available. I would remind Senator Ross that I was a member of the Joint Committee on Secondary Legislation. I attended every committee and every subcommittee meeting. Senator Ross was a member of that committee and did not attend five consecutive meetings.

Mr. Ross

As Leader of the House——

Mr. Lanigan

Senator Ross approached me on one occasion to be coopted on to a particular subcommittee. I will not accept an assertion from any Senator that I do not attend meetings of committees I am selected for.

Mr. Ross

I never said anything of the sort.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. B. Ryan

The report is most welcome. I would like to continue my attempts to reassert the supremacy of Parliament by saying that I would request the Members of this House to insist that these committees begin to be taken seriously by taking themselves seriously and not to be happy with reports that end up on shelves. I agree with the substance of what Senator Ross says.

Acting Chairman

We cannot debate what the committees do. We are just agreeing to the membership of the committees.

Mr. Lydon

Who selects the Committee of Selection?

Acting Chairman

They are appointed by resolution of the House.

Mr. Norris

Of course, I welcome the establishment of the committees. I was surprised to see this on the monitor, I did not recollect that this was being taken at 12.30 p.m.

Mr. Lanigan

The Senator's recollection is not an issue. This matter came up yesterday evening. I do not intend to take issue with Senator Norris on his recollection of the matter. We are dealing with what happened in the House and if the Senator was not listening or was not available——

Acting Chairman

Senator Lanigan, will you please let Senator Norris make his point.

Mr. Norris

I would like to assure the Leader and the House that I was listening and I was present in the House.

Mr. Lanigan

Why are you making a point about what——

Acting Chairman

Senator Norris, without interruption, please.

Mr. Norris

My only point was that I was taken unawares by what I thought was a sudden emergence at this point, but I do not wish to create any difficulties.

Mr. Lanigan

This is not relevant. It is not a matter of order and it is not a——

Acting Chairman

Senator Norris, please.

Mr. Norris

I welcome the establishment of these committees.

Mr. Lanigan

This is not an issue.

Mr. Norris

I am very glad that the Independent group are fully represented on these committees. I have no doubt that whatever difficulties may have emerged in the past they will be corrected, particularly under the pressure that has been exerted, and that we will manage to work together on these committees. I want to say once again that I regret the absence of a foreign affairs committee.

Mr. Lanigan

Perhaps if I asked the former Member of this House, Senator Martin, to define an Independent group?

Acting Chairman

That does not arise.

Mr. Ross

Fianna Fáil group——

Mr. McGowan

I welcome the formation of these committees. I was listening to the monitor in my office when a Senator named me and indicated that I would not have time to——

Mr. Ross

I did not. I do not mind the Senator taking up that point but that is totally incorrect.

Acting Chairman

Please, let Senator McGowan make his point.

Mr. McGowan

I have not mentioned any names.

Mr. Ross

I said I hoped he would join with me in reforming that committee.

Mr. McGowan

One can be tolerant up to a point but the Senator has nearly crossed all barriers. I want to assure the House that I have been on a number of committees for 30 years and I have not missed any committee meetings. I would claim that I play a reasonable part and make a reasonable contribution on those committees. I will monitor very carefully the attendance of those who perceive that those committees do not function very well. The people who complain about ghost writers and reports being written for those committees, are themselves at the bottom of the attendance list record. My main interest will be to monitor their input. I hope they will be in a better position to challenge some of the Members of this House who run to the Pat Kenny Show or any other show——

Acting Chairman

Senator McGowan, we are just dealing with the membership of the committee.

Mr. McGowan

My intentions are to make a positive contribution. I think it is a poor start if a Member has to cast aspersions on any person who was elected to serve on that committee. My intention is to make a positive contribution and be present at all the meetings.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Lanigan

We will take item No. 1 at 2.30 p.m. and will continue Second Stage of item No. 4.

Sitting suspended at 12.50 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.