All-Ireland Tourism: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That Seanad Éireann notes the potential for developing tourism on an all-Ireland basis.

—(Senator Mooney.)

Mr. Foley

I note the terms of the motion: "That Seanad Éireann notes the potential for developing tourism on an all-Ireland basis." I would like to refer, first of all to the economy, in this part of the country. It is worth reflecting for a moment on the position of tourism in the Irish economy and its role in the Government's Programme for National Recovery. More than any other previous Administration the present Government have recognised the tourism industry's potential very clearly. As a result it set the tourist industry very definite targets. The industry has been asked to make a very specific contribution to the economic development of the country and, in particular, to creating jobs.

I would like to remind the House these targets are to double tourism numbers from 2.1 million to 4.2 million overseas visitors between 1988 to 1992, to increase revenue earnings by an extra £500 million in the same period and thereby create an additional 25,000 new jobs. The achievement of these targets is vital to the people of this country and every effort must be made to support the industry in reaching these targets. At the same time, nothing should be allowed to deflect the industry from its task or dissipate its efforts.

With two years of the five year programme completed, impressive results can be reported in terms of numbers. Over 30 per cent more tourists have been attracted to Ireland in those two years. That is on target. Revenue — and this is perhaps the most important target of the lot — is actually ahead of the growth in numbers. We are meeting the numbers target, we are ahead of our revenue target and the Minister is on record as stating that the jobs target is also being met. This is a performance in which everybody involved can take some pride.

Great strides have been made by the way we approach our tourism. Bord Fáilte are providing sound leadership to the industry. Under the chairmanship of Mr. Martin Dully, a new strategy has been evolved, backed up by a framework planned for the development of tourist potential which identifies the relevant priorities which must be met if we are to continue to attract the increasing numbers essential to sustain new product developments, to generate more foreign revenue and to provide more and more jobs for our young people. It was heartening to see this week the head of the Irish Hotels Federation saying that the sector was making efforts to attract back to Ireland many of the trained young Irish staff who have been snapped up by foreign companies. The jobs are here for them and each year for the past several years CERT have been able to place practically every trainee they took on their training courses.

The Government can be proud of the inspired leadership which it has given to tourism. It has created a climate in which our industry can flourish. It has reduced the cost of getting to Ireland. The dramatic reduction in inflation has certainly helped to reduce the costs on the ground to tourists, even though there is still room for improvements in that regard. By extending the business expansion scheme to tourism and by allocating £147 million to tourism from the EC Structural Funds the Government have created a climate for investment in tourism which brought an unprecedented level of investment into high quality tourism potential developments. Bord Fáilte are currently dealing with new projects, which will certainly include the North of Ireland, and they will be built over the next couple of years totalling over £900 million.

Bord Fáilte are also deserving of considerable credit for the new interest within the industry itself. Not only have they provided the leadership through new strategies and development programmes, but they have increased the volume of promotional activities and the quality of promotions taking place in Britain and Northern Ireland throughout continental Europe and in other parts of the globe. Anybody who has seen Bord Failte's activities at first hand will testify to the fact — a fact which is readily acknowledged by the foreign travel trade — that we have one of the most professional tourism bodies in the world working for us abroad. Here again it is very obvious there is tremendous co-operation between the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Bord Fáilte.

Here at home regional tourism has been streamlined to give a greater influence to local interests in the development of tourism at local level. We are seeing a great change taking place in the tourist industry, as in other parts of the economy. The private sector is being asked to shoulder greater responsibility for developing products of the quality which will attract new business and for investing in the marketing of these products — and that is not a bad thing. We are getting away from the "grant mentality" whereby nothing happens unless the taxpayer funds it. Tourism has become much more professional and much more commercial. It is now becoming very profitable and the good operators are prepared to reinvest some of those profits in new development and new jobs.

While this transformation has been taking place in tourism in this part of the country in these past two short years, Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board have been working together on a number of projects. The availability of funds under the International Fund for Ireland has given added impetus to a number of operations on which both Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board could work on a sound basis together. Bord Fáilte's workshop promotions in North America include Northern Ireland and several joint advertising, publicity and promotional ventures have been undertaken there. In Britain, too, the two tourist boards have co-operated on a number of activities — on the promotion of golfing holidays, for example, and this has been most successful. The two tourist boards promote travel to all-Ireland jointly at a desk in the British Travel Centre in Regent Street in London. In Europe there is a steady level of co-operation. A joint colour supplement has appeared in several leading continental newspapers, paid for by the International Fund for Ireland. At the beginning of March of last year the two tourist boards had a joint advertising programme and this will be repeated during the coming year at the International travel fair in Berlin, which is the biggest in the world.

The International Fund has stimulated development in Northern Ireland and the Border counties and County Sligo in the South, with particular emphasis being paid to the designated disadvantaged areas. The grant schemes have been successful in extending the tourist season and in generating and maintaining employment.

The fund has approved grants in excess of £10 million to some 70 projects in the Republic covering a wide range of accommodation and amenity developments.

Two major projects are being supported in order to market Ireland on an all-Ireland basis: both Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board have become computerised and all reservations are going through this computer system.

The International Fund for Ireland has confirmed continuing support for tourism and is at present examining new ways in which to assist the industry. In addition, they see further opportunities in which Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board can work together in promoting Ireland in existing markets and new developing markets.

At an operational level there is a high degree of mutual understanding and co-operation between the tourist boards. On the home front, arrangements are in place between the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and the regional tourism organisations to mutually promote holiday opportunities in their respective areas. The fact remains, however unpalatable it may be to us who live here, that in some markets people are confused about the situation in Ireland and undoubtedly the overseas publicity which the Northern situation has got abroad has cost this part of Ireland very considerable losses, and continues to do so.

Things are improving and, I believe, we should leave it to the experts to decide where our mutual interests are best served. Bord Fáilte and the tourist industry have been given very severe and very specific targets by the Government. Regrettably, it has not been possible to give in all cases the level of budget which such targets would require. Therefore, it is important that the private sector, and those who benefit from tourism directly and indirectly, should be asked to contribute more to the marketing of tourism. It is equally important that the scarce funds available are spent where they are most productive in generating the extra visitors, the extra foreign revenue and the extra jobs which the Programme for National Recovery requires.

So, while I would support strongly the principle of promoting tourism to both parts of Ireland, I believe this cannot be at the expense of diverting funds or resources away from the main task, which is meeting the targets which have been set. There is incontestible evidence that the two tourist boards are working together productively on a wide front; the decision on what projects to be undertaken mutually, and how the relationships should develop, must be left to the professionals involved. They have shown a remarkable ability to deliver results to date. We must not dilute their ability to meet their targets in 1990, 1991 or 1992, which will undoubtedly be very tough years, when you consider that in each of these years we will need to attract an extra 400,000-500,000 people per year to meet targets, to provide the extra revenue and sustain the level of activity which will create the jobs which we so badly require.

Revenue from Northern Ireland tourists increased from £38.8 million to £46.1 million, a 19 per cent increase in 1988. These are the figures available to date. This is most welcome as it shows a recovery in a market which had experienced a three year period of decline. The number of visitors increased by 3 per cent to 582,000. Marketing highlights in Northern Ireland included TV advertising which featured a re-run of the successful commercial first shown in 1987. The TV campaign was supported by radio commercials on Downtown Radio promoting Dublin, Leitrim, Sligo and the northern part of our country. I would like to see this expanded to include many other parts of Ireland, especially southern Ireland.

I must congratulate Bord Fáilte under the chairmanship of chief executive, Martin Dully, on their co-operation with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. Board Fáilte have had stands at the Ulster Motor Show, the Balmoral Show and the Game and Country Fair and it is now obvious it was a good exercise with the increased number of visitors from Northern Ireland to the South. Irish tourism has entered a new era with new targets, a new strategy and a new product. Martin Dully and Bord Fáilte have brought a new sense of confidence to the industry. I am confident they will be very successful and I wish them well.

Mrs. Hederman

I am very pleased to speak this evening on this motion because I have for a very long time, but particularly during the period when I was Lord Mayor of Dublin, done what I could, and especially, in that year, to promote tourism in Ireland in co-operation with Bord Fáilte and other bodies. Like previous speakers, I believe very strongly in the potential of tourism. It would not be an exaggeration to say it is the great untapped resource of this country and I think we are only starting to look at the tip of the iceberg of what tourism could bring to us. For that reason it is extremely important that we proceed with great enthusiasm and great energy, but also I think one should say with great caution.

Previous speakers have mentioned the role which tourism can play in the economy of the country and particularly the role it can play in helping to solve our problems of unemployment, because, as we all know, tourism is a very large creator of jobs. There are many jobs of different kinds, spin-off jobs in the tourism industry, and I believe that it will do more than probably any other industry to help us in that way. Therefore, funding for tourism is essential and it needs to be well planned. I do not think it is possible for Bord Fáilte, the body entrusted with the promotion of tourism, to have to work in a haphazard way; they need to plan, and plan years ahead. I urge that as much funding as possible be given to them for that purpose.

I mentioned a note of caution; while undoubtedly we have a great potential for tourism, it is something that could very easily go wrong for us. It is important, therefore, and particularly here in this body where we have the opportunity and time in the Seanad to consider these matters, that we look very deeply at the things which could go wrong. What I have in mind here is there are other countries — I will not mention them; you all know where I am speaking about — where they have got great numbers of tourists in and quite quickly they killed the goose that laid the golden egg. We do not want that to happen in Ireland. It does not have to happen provided that we as a nation, that is, all bodies, the Government, local authorities and everybody else in the tourism business are aware of the pitfalls ahead.

What I am thinking about here particularly is the use of the Structural Funds. They can and should be used to develop our tourist industry in a very positive way but I do not believe that throwing money at problems is sufficient or that it is going to solve the problems. I would worry that there might be a danger that that idea would get abroad. There is all this money coming into us from Europe. Every area must grab as much as it can get, spend it as quickly as possible and everything will be all right. That is quite the wrong approach.

I believe that the only way that we will make a success of spending the Structural Funds to the advantage of tourism is if the people at the very lowest level — and I hope that the Minister is taking this on board because it is absolutely fundamental — by that I mean down in the smallest urban district authority, town commissioners, local voluntary organisations, are all involved and consulted. With a little regret I note at this stage that the consultation and the involvement of local organisations was not in my view anything like what it should have been when plans were being prepared. I am not only speaking about my experiences in Dublin City Council, where we were totally unable to get any information — in fact, the whole thing was veiled in secrecy. I know because I have attended recently a number of seminars for local authorities, the last one only last weekend and the same message is coming back from all over the country: that people have not been involved.

This, I believe, is absolutely germane to the whole question of the future of tourism, because we must consult people to get their views. Why should people down in a remote part of the country not know just as much about what is important for the development of tourism as some bureaucrat sitting in an office with a red carpet making decisions? Unless we consult these people things are going to go wrong. It is even important that we consult at the lowest level so as to harness the enthusiasm of these people, to get moving and get a spirit of entrepreneurship throughout the country.

Could the message be got out in regard to the belief that because tourists are going to one area it means another area is going to lose out? Previous speakers have spoken about this. They say every area in the country is trying to do its own thing and there is not sufficient coordination. That is because of that belief, that because tourists are going to a neighbouring area we are losing out. That is not the situation, in my view. What we need is a joint, co-ordinated, intelligent, well-planned promotion to attract people to all of Ireland so that they will spread out — what is good for one area is good for another area.

Unfortunately there is a kind of a mentality in Ireland — I suppose because we were deprived and depressed for so long — that people are frantic to get their hands on whatever is there and they think that if they do not get it immediately somebody else will get it. I believe that to be quite the wrong attitude and it is something which could be very damaging. I am not going to go into this because it is a very controversial subject at the moment, but I think that the whole question of the Clifden airport saga is a typical example of how things have gone wrong and the way things will continue to go wrong if local groups are not given information. In that instance, as you know, it was an unfortunate incident with the Office of Public Works, where they did not notify the local authority or the promoters of this airport, they did not know what was going on and this very unhappy situation has now arisen. That, I believe, will continue and those problems will multiply if we go on in the same way. That is something that we should look at.

In regard to what this country has to offer, I think we are ideally poised to benefit and I am sure that the Minister when he is replying will acknowledge that the trends in tourism have changed. On the Continent, I understand, there is a great trend away from the planned, organised type of holiday; things like marinas and caravan parks are not as popular as they were. People are going for the sort of open air and "Amuigh Faoin Spéir" atmosphere. That is what appeals to them now when they want to go on holidays and Ireland is ideally poised to deliver in those areas. Here, again, we will very quickly ruin the country if we do not proceed with caution. Areas that deal with the heritage and culture of this country must get special attention. We need to emphasise things to do like boating, fishing, hill-walking, cycling, golfing and sailing. Here, again, we are ideally poised to offer those and that is what the visitors want.

The by-word should be quality. I hope the Minister will reassure us that we are not going to just go for numbers. We are not looking just to attract great numbers so that the Bord Fáilte report next year or the year after will look good. We made that mistake perhaps in some of our house-building programmes. I hope we will not make that mistake when we come to our tourism. It is not huge numbers of people we want. What we want are big spenders, and big spenders nowadays tend largely to be discerning people and they are not going to come to this country unless they find that it is environmentally clean and green.

I know previous speakers have alluded to this and to the balance which we need to achieve between, say, our chemical industries and the work which the IDA are doing to promote industry in this country on the one hand and, on the other hand, the green and clean. I wholeheartedly applaud the Government and the Taoiseach for using the opportunity of the Presidency of the EC to advertise and associate Ireland with green issues and that the Taoiseach has chosen to have a Green Presidency. I believe that is a great step. I am sure it will be backed up with positive environmental policies and that it is for real. It is really a stroke of genius so as to get the message across the world — Ireland and green, those two things are synonymous. We must however, ensure that when visitors come to this country with the perception of this country as a green and pleasant environment that they will not be disillusioned and, as Martin Dully said in his report, that they will go away happy and satisfied and that they will have found in Ireland what they expected.

I would like to comment briefly on the actual title of this debate, which is the question of co-operation. I mentioned already co-operation with the North with regard to tourism and I think I also mentioned the need for regions to co-operate and for everybody not to do their own little thing thereby dissipating our energies through being too dispersed. I believe that Bord Fáilte's counterpart in the North of Ireland are very anxious to co-operate. If they are seen to promote Ireland in co-operation, the unfortunate problems relating to the Border will be minimised so that people, hopefully, will go away from this country having visited North and South and that that perception will not continue to ruin the tourist trade as it has, sadly, done for so long.

I would like particularly to emphasise my belief that tourism has great potential. It can be a great money spinner. I hope that the Minister, with his colleagues perhaps in the Department of the Environment and other places, will do everything possible to get that message home to local authorities. We have seen too much of the despoliation of the country, things that are now known as "bungalow bliss", this sort ot thing where local authorities think they should do favours to local people whereas in fact what they are doing is a great disfavour to their locality because nobody wants to come to a region which is ugly and unattractive.

I would like to encourage local authorities to support the Government's initiative with regard to the environment. It is at that level we need to promote these efforts because unless we get the local people behind this it will not be a successful venture. I am thinking here particularly of items like the Tidy Towns Competition which I had the good fortune of being involved with on a national level last year and I was quite amazed by the enormous voluntary effort and the goodwill which there is towards that competition. I am sure the Minister himself is a supporter. Here, again, it has enormous potential for improving the environment, for bringing home to towns and villages what they have to offer to tourists. The tourists do not want to come and see graveyards of old bangers. They do not want to see plastic bags hanging out of bushes and trees on the banks of beautiful rivers if they come to fish. I am glad to say here from the tourism point of view that the problems with fishing are over and that we will, hopefully, have a great number of fishermen. There is nothing more unattractive if you go out for a day with your fishing rod, as I have done myself on many occasions, to find the place littered with plastic bags hanging out of trees. It is most unsightly and unattractive. The Minister should continue to give support to ventures like the Tidy Towns Competition because it is there in the very heart of the country that we will make a success of our tourism.

Mr. Farrell

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focail a rá ar rún seo.

As I come from a Border county and have been involved in tourism for a long period this is a very appropriate motion in which to speak. Our tourist season until 1968 used to start early in May and went on to October. Unfortunately, the problems of Northern Ireland have ruined the cross-Border aspect of tourism. The Ireland Fund is playing a leading role in helping to develop greater communication and awareness of what is available now, North and South, for our people. I want to pay tribute to the fund but instead of the present ratio of 25.75 I should like to see a ratio of 40:60. The South of Ireland should get 40 per cent because the present ratio is not a fair divide of the Ireland Fund.

I would like to pay special tribute to the Government who saw the potential of tourism when they were in Opposition. When they came to Government they had everything on line to push forward in a very dynamic way by setting up a task force to check out the various methods that could be used to increase tourism. As a result, tourism has increased enormously. I would like to pay tribute to the Minister for Tourism and to the Minister of State, Deputy Denis Lyons, for the valuable public relations work he did going round to various art groups and functions talking about tourism and promoting it and the efforts he made in providing grants for various projects.

We are talking about being big in tourism and I know much of the Structural Funds and the money coming in from Europe is geared towards big spending. That is very important. I would encourage people to come and invest their money in Ireland. There is a huge potential for development in this country for the larger type projects, but I also believe that many people come to Ireland to meet the plain people. Tourists like to see our wild and beautiful scenery but they also like to meet the local people who can tell them some of the history of the areas they are visiting. For that reason we should ensure that our guesthouses are of high standard.

The agri-tourism business is another facet of tourism and it is very important to keep that section of the tourist business going. We certainly want to have more local people involved. We want job creation. The large hotels and sports complexes are very important but a jigsaw does not consist of one big piece. You have to have a lot of small pieces to make up the picture. I believe the small people in tourism must be supported and that we must in some way try to encourage them to stay in the industry.

There is a huge potential in the west for cross-Border tourism. Lough Erne extends North and South although this imaginary border line drawn across it spoils it. We will have to do more to try and develop greater use of that particular lake for water sport, for skiing and fishing. It is a fantastic natural amenity. It is unspoiled, it is clean and blue but it is not fully exploited.

For many years we have had a close connection with Fermanagh but we are still not involved enough to get enough cross-Border activity going. Golf is very important. We have quite a good influx of people from Northern Ireland playing golf. In north Sligo, we have a number of excellent golf courses, the County Sligo Golf Club, the Bundoran Golf Club, Enniscrone and Strandhill. Those clubs are not really being used to the maximum in mid-week but they are, of course, fully booked out at weekends. We could make more effort here to promote more cross-Border tourism.

Regional airports will be very important in the future. We are not making sufficient use of modern air travel to promote tourism, particularly in the west where we have fine regional airports in Knock and in Strandhill. We could indeed arrange to fly in more fishermen. We have Lough Gill, a beautiful fishing lake and many other great lakes around the west. We have Bundrouas, the first fishing river in Ireland which is a huge attraction. We are not utilising our regional airports to the fullest extent. We could use them far more to promote weekend tours. We must offer our congratulations to Ryanair for implementing a new flight between Ireland and Luton for £90 return. There are two flights per day.

I would like to pay tribute to Bord Fáilte for the work they are doing to promote our tourist facilities but we cannot leave it all to them. We must play our part. We should inform our friends and relations in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland of the facilities that are now available. They can fly from Belfast to Dublin. Flying is the quickest way to take groups of people from one place to another.

I do not entirely agree with the last speaker who said we do not want numbers. Of course we want quality customers but, at the same time, we want numbers because the number of quality customers will not generate enough money to keep the tourist trade going. The families who come can only afford to spend a certain amount of money and they keep the guesthouses going. A famous poet once said: "The bold peasantry, the country's pride, once destroyed can never be supplied." We must keep the bold peasantry and we can only keep them if enough people come and stay in bed and breakfast accommodation. The people who have done a scenic tour of Ireland and stayed in bed and breakfast accommodation can certainly vouch for the high quality of those guesthouses. We need not be ashamed to send anyone to them. Many of us have called at untimely hours of the night and knocked at doors to get a bed for the night. We were not worried about the quality but we were pleasantly amazed to see the standard of service available. Those people are always very thoughtful and considerate to their guests even at a very late hour. Unless we keep that section of tourism going we will not be able to keep the tourist industry going as we would like to.

I particularly welcome agri-tourism and when this gets off the ground it will help farm holidays. On this type of holiday guests are free to feed the ducks, the hens and the geese; they can have a ride on a donkey or a pony; they can see the cow being milked. This is very important to city people many of whom have never been in rural Ireland. We should all promote this type of holiday.

I congratulate the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Flynn, who has brought in a grant for thatched cottages because the original thatched cottages are becoming very scarce. I have been putting resolutions down at county council meetings for many years to try to retain the few beautiful old, traditional thatched cottages not the modern ones that are built now with net wire under the thatch. They are only a facade. I am delighted to see that there is a scheme now for the real old thatched cottages because they are part of our heritage and part of what we are. It is important that we maintain them so that people can see exactly what the old rural countryside was like.

It is a great pity that we could not in some way encourage another old trade that has disappeared and one that was of great interest to tourists. I lived near an old forge and people loved to stop and see the horse being shod and see the sparks flying on the blacksmith's floor. Perhaps we might be able to make some grant available through some scheme to encourage the re-establishment of the old country forge. It was a great attraction for tourists. There is a need for big hotels. There is the jet set, there are the executives and the conferences and we want to cater for them. It is another facet of our tourism industry. At the same time it is important that we try to get some of the old trades re-established. There are many people setting up old crafts and they are a great attraction to tourists. In North Sligo we have a tourist attraction in the Spanish Armada off Streedagh. We have started an Armada museum in Sligo and I sincerely hope we can get that going because it would attract tourists from a very wide area.

When the tourism season started in May we had the retired people from the North who left Derry and Belfast. They went as far as Galway and came back. Then we had the general tourist and at the end of the year we had the farming community who had their farming work finished somewhat earlier than we had in the west. They went as far as Galway and back again. That type of tourism was the icing on the cake, to use modern jargon but it stretched out our tourist season. I would like to see something being done to encourage that type of tourism again. I want to pay tribute to the local authorities who are doing a great job in providing picnic places and keeping lay-bys clean. This helps our tourist industry.

Mrs. Jackman

With the Chair's permission, I would like to share my time with Senator Liam Cosgrave. I welcome the motion, especially the emphasis on an all-Ireland basis for development and the joint approach we should take not just in relation to attracting overseas visitors but also cross-Border or North-South co-operation. This would help us to meet our Northern brethren and break down barriers. I am glad that local authorities have initiated many twinnings with their Northern colleagues particularly in the Mourne area. We should take note of that.

I would like to make a brief reference to the National Plan and the Government's strategy for development for five years. I agree obviously with emphasis on amenities, maximising tourist potential of our unique natural environment and our cultural heritage. I would agree on guidelines to provide for protection and conservation of our physical environment. I also agree with the continuation of a liberal access transport policy which, hopefully, would attract increased numbers, likewise niche marketing, market segmentation and industry involvement and, of course, Bord Fáilte's co-operation with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board.

I would like to address the practicalities. I suggest, like other speakers, that we should aim at a higher market level, those with disposable incomes. For instance, we should attract the Japanese. We are looking at that market but they will not come unless we enhance our facilities. It is cheaper for the Japanese to fly to Ireland for a golfing holiday than it is for them to play at home, and we must encourage that. Obviously we have to redress our strategies of the past. We must have better packaging, better marketing skills and, of course, the upgrading of our facilities in other areas. There must be greater scope for hunting, shooting, fishing, etc. We will have an infusion of money into the economy only if we break into the right market. We have not exploited the area sufficiently.

In relation to Senator Farrell's point, we have aimed in the past at attracting low market levels, people with low disposable incomes. They do not necessarily create wealth, they do not generate enough money to help the industry to expand because the margin is not there. I would like to make a brief point on that. The policy in relation to not giving grants to small family-owned hotels if they just have 45 beds or less will not help to develop the potential that exists for this type of accommodation. There is a movement away from the grant-aiding of the small unit for leisure and accommodation expansion. The Minister can correct me if I am wrong but I interpret it in that way. It is going against the welcome approach we have always given and which attracts our tourists back. We have to define our market more clearly and create an atmosphere in which the potential can be exploited. I suggest closer liaison between airlines and hotels. The tourist industry has some rather jaded policies and I hope that more innovative experts will be brought in. As regards value for money, our Welsh, Northern Ireland and Scottish counterparts give a lead in this and we can get a benefit from such co-operation.

I would like to draw attention to the attraction of golf colleges, and equestrian schools and in the mid-west with Thomond College there is great potential for developing that aspect. There is plenty of expertise and there is a tradition of hunting in the area. There is access to airports, there is a good infrastructure, hotels, etc.

Agri-tourism has been mentioned many times. In my area we have the Slieve Phelim Integrated Development Area and there is great interest in it. However, I do not see that they have the expertise themselves. It is expensive but it is essential to buy in managerial expertise to help them to develop the facilities they would like to have, such as pony-trekking.

I submitted a motion here with the other members of the Fine Gael Party concerning a problem regarding the development of our nature trails, mountain walks, etc., namely, the whole aspect of insurance. If local authorities in whose areas these amenities are located are to develop then, sufficient funds should be given by the Department of the Environment through the local authorities to indemnify landowners in order to take out appropriate insurance. We have got to look at that matter because it is cropping up again and again in the mid-west and in other areas in relation to the development of agri-tourism.

I will make a brief reference to the mid-west and the constant lobbying against stop-over flights to Shannon. The figures I have for 1988 show that 62.7 per cent of the passengers who disembarked at Shannon Airport travelled to the west to holiday there. I cannot see why there is this obsession about this aspect which is not unique to Ireland. For instance, as against the number of US tourists who visited us last year, 1.5 million, Switzerland had six million United States tourists with a double stop that nobody criticised, inwards and outwards, both at Zurich and Geneva. Likewise, I could mention US flights stopping over in Germany, in Dusseldorf and Frankfurt and I could give similar details for Finland.

There is only one specification in relation to Knock Airport by Aer Rianta. They can stop inwards or outwards for charter flights. If the stop down is made on the outward leg it is treated as a domestic flight and you have only to pay $180 as against $4,000 if you are incoming. On last year's charter flights, the survey showed that 50 per cent of passengers asked to disembark at Shannon. We have got to look at those statistics. We have to consider the infrastructure of the mid-west, the concentration of tourism, and the fact that Shannon is the first stop for most of our tourists.

Millions have been spent over the years in tourist promotion. Once the tourists get here they always want to come back. What attracts them are the intangibles, the ambience, the welcome, and the rural nature of our society, but they are discerning and they demand value for money. They want improved facilities and services. All these are essential if we are to continue to sell ourselves as a country that is attractive to visit.

Mr. Cosgrave

I would like to thank Senator Jackman for allowing me to speak on this motion. It is an important and topical subject and one that should be discussed and reviewed from time to time.

It is important that we continue to identify and deal separately with the various different markets, and how we sell an Irish holiday in countries abroad. First, we have to remember exactly what we are selling and then we have to remember exactly who we are selling to. We are selling to different types of individuals and, hopefully, to a certain extent we can cater for them in various areas. We have got to remember that and to provide different types of holidays.

In relation to how we develop our tourist industry, we have got to consider our climate and remember we have not sun-drenched beaches and that we have got to provide leisure facilities and the necessary infrastructure. We have got to give the back-up to the hotels so that they can provide various facilities. We have also got to provide value, as far as possible. We provide the friendship quite easily enough and hope we do not charge too much for it. In relation to providing value, we have got to remember that there are different types of markets. There are people who have a lot of money to spend and there are people who come on a fixed budget. When we see these package holidays to Spain, Portugal and other places, we have got to remember that for relatively small amounts you can go there on a package deal for one or two weeks. I do not believe when people are looking to Ireland that they think they can come here quite as easily, that petrol, eating out and drinking out can be quite expensive. We have got to impress on our hoteliers and our restaurateurs that it is up to them to provide value, not to kill the golden goose. Obviously there are people who come with a lot of money and we accommodate them but there is another market also.

I would like to compliment the work that Bord Fáilte have done in recent times. Looking at their 1988 report, it is interesting to see that in some countries that there has been a slight disimprovement. I note, in particular, France and Germany, where there seems to have been either a slight fall-off in terms of the money spent or in numbers. We are all aware that the Germans and the French are fussy and it is important that we cater for these markets and keep our standards up.

There is one item which I should mention, which is not directly the responsibility of the Minister, that is that various tourists and visitors have been mugged, have had their cars robbed, have been robbed. I am sure Bord Fáite do everything they can to try and assist people who are caught in these circumstances. It is important that there is consultation between Bord Fáilte, hotel representatives, members of the Garda and others to warn people. Then if the worst happens we must see to it that the people are helped. If one person goes back carrying this tale that your car is liable to be broken into, that you are liable to be robbed, it can do untold harm. It can take a lot of time and effort, no matter what Bord Fáilte or various tourist boards do, to undo this damage. It is important that this matter is addressed. We have seen bad headlines over the past number of years where people have been beaten up, robbed and their holidays totally ruined. The Minister, when he is discussing this matter with the tourist chiefs, should ensure that some sort of limited compensation fund is there so that people are helped to get over their terrible experience. It may not be the most major point but it is important that it is addressed.

We have to keep looking for new avenues, and new markets. We have got to identify the people to come here, we have to look at what we are selling. We must put money into the tourist industry and eventually the return will be forthcoming.

Tourism has been good for this country but it is important that we continue to develop it. It is important that we continue to market our country in an effective way. We have to remember we have not a sun-drenched climate and that we have got to cater for tourists who come here for reasons other than the sun.

Mr. O'Brien

I welcome the opportunity to speak on tourism. I would like to share my time with Senator Hourigan.

Coming from the Cavan-Monaghan area, an area known as the lake country, I would first like to speak on the promotion of angling in that area. We have 50 lakes in Monaghan, only half of which are developed and the other half are impossible to get access to. I would ask the Minister to look at the possibility of making some money available for scrub clearance and for access lanes to be developed.

We could promote tourism in a big way. Angling is a very big asset to Monaghan and Cavan but it is not fully developed. Senators will have read in the newspapers that there was a big promotion of our angling in England over the past few weeks and that is good to a point. We want them to come over but we have to give them more reason to come. We have to give them far better access to our lakes, we have to have fishing stiles provided. When they are here fishing and having their holiday they spend a good deal of money. They are an asset to any county. Anglers are gentlemen who want the peace and quiet of the countryside. Farmhouse accommodation is the ideal accommodation for these English fishermen. From central England we get many fishermen; we want more of them and we want to provide the accommodation for them.

I ask the Minister to look favourably at farmhouse accommodation. I know Bord Fáilte are constantly looking at it but it is hard enough to provide adequate accommodation. These people do not want to stay in towns or in hotels. They like the peace and quiet of the country and farmhouse accommodation is the ideal accommodation for them. Agri-tourism has been mentioned. What I am speaking about fits exactly into the agri-tourism programme.

Water sport is one of the finest sports we have. The Ballinamore and the Ballyconnell canal will link the Erne with the Shannon. These rivers and lakes should be developed. They have been completely neglected over the past number of years and as we are going into a tourist decade, this matter should be considered. Many developed tourist counties and more established tourist areas are getting more funding than the underdeveloped tourist areas. These latter areas and the counties with no tourism tradition find it hard to get off the ground.

I am delighted to see the Minister, Deputy Lyons, with us this evening and I ask him to look favourably at the few ideas I have mentioned.

Mr. Hourigan

I would like to thank my colleague Senator O'Brien for giving me part of his time. This is a very important issue and in the time available to me I hope to cover what I would believe to be the more important points. The last point Senator O'Brien mentioned is relevant. A lot of money is going into the established areas like Killarney, Connemara and so on but there are the unknown areas from a tourist point of view, unknown in the international context, such as Sligo, Leitrim, Monaghan, Cavan, Wicklow and many other areas. It would be very worthwhile for Bord Fáilte or some other agency to invest in those areas.

I would like to compliment the various county councils for the excellent work practically all of them have done to enhance tourism in the context of establishing parks, caravan parking areas and picnic areas. The councils have done a lot of work to improve the position in their own counties working sometimes with their own resources, sometimes in conjunction with the IDA, and SFADCo in particular in the mid-west.

There is no doubt that angling is of great importance. In the counties where angling is an important feature I believe it presents great potential for the development of tourism. We must remember that tourism has very great potential for our economy. It is an alternative to other areas where we are running into difficulties, in the agricultural sector and the industrial sector. Much of the foreign currency we might have got from these areas could be picked up by a vigorous and dynamic tourist industry.

There is no doubt that tourism has been under-rated over the years. Its real importance has not been understood or quantified but the various publications of Bord Fáilte show what tourism has been worth to our country. In spite of the difficulties with regard to the political situation North and South, I believe we can in time overcome this political problem and develop tourism in our Border counties quite substantially in addition to developing it in the rest of the country.

I would like to refer to the accommodation that is available particularly for groups of people coming here. We have many upmarket hotels and we know of plans to build more of the Hilton-type hotels. We also have hotels at the bottom of the scale. However, we are lacking in what one might call middle-class type hotels that would provide good accommodation at a reasonable rate. Many foreigners visiting our country do not have unlimited amounts of money to spend. It is important that we recognise that and they should not always be directed to the more expensive, luxurious type of hotel. Many of these people would be just as satisfied, and perhaps more satisfied if they had accommodation in the more down-market hotel that would provide the proper facilities and amenities.

I would like, too, to compliment the various owners of guesthouses throughout the country for the excellent accommodation that has been made available to people on holiday at very, very reasonable rates. They have done an enormous service and have filled a void for people on fairly low budgets, whether they are Irish people or people from abroad.

I believe Bord Fáilte must adopt a more far-reaching policy and have a wider range of objectives. We have the lakes, the hills and so on but the climate is not always what we would like it to be although last summer was very good. If we get reasonable weather I am certain that people will be attracted to come and take their holidays here. I believe that courtesy and how we deal with tourists is very important because there is no better way of advertising tourism in this country than through the people who have been here and who talk to their friends and neighbours about Ireland. I believe we have a lot to do to develop the potential that exists with regard to the development of tourism.

I referred earlier rather hurriedly to the county councils. If you drive along any of the main highways, you will note that there has been a lot of extra work done through the Regional Fund which is operated by the local authorities with the help of European Community money. We must develop that whole area a great deal further. We have many more hundreds of miles that we can improve to have very decent highways at very little cost to ourselves if we avail of the moneys from the EC through the Regional Fund. I made reference earlier to the excellent work the councils have done in the areas of the development of parks and related facilities and they are to be commended. An extension of such work would be very good.

There is vast potential for us to develop tourism to suit the more ordinary type of tourist. We must bear in mind that all the people coming here are not all extremely well off. Many of them are on very limited budgets and, for that reason, we must aim at that kind of market. Up to now, we have, perhaps, been aiming at the lower end of the market and the higher end of the market but the middle of the market has not been exploited to the extent that is possible.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Mar dhuine atá i mo chonaí i gConamara, ar ndóigh, tá an-áthas orm labhairt ar an ábhar seo, mar is ábhar é a bhaineas go dlúth leis an saol a chaithimid thiar.

I am pleased to speak on this subject because it is one that obviously plays a very important and integral part in the lives of the people of the area in which I live. Secondly, I welcome the motion for the last phrase in it, that is, to develop tourism on an all-Ireland basis because one of the things we could do to break down barriers in this country is, sector by sector, to set about developing our industries and services on an all-Ireland basis. It must seem strange to a stranger arriving on our shores to find out that two totally separate agencies have to be dealt with if they want to do a tour of this whole island, that there is a totally different agency to deal with in Cavan-Monaghan, Donegal, Sligo and Leitrim than there is on the other side of the Border in Fermanagh, Derry, Armagh, Down and so on.

The time is limited obviously on this motion and I do not intend delaying the Minister. However, there are a few points I would like to make in relation to tourism. I welcome wholeheartedly the resolution of the fishing dispute and I would like to put it on the record that I congratulate the Minister on finding a resolution to this dispute, one that did so much damage to tourism, particularly around the great western lakes in the past two years. During that dispute which we knew must end at some time many of the people in the west were devoting their attention to how we would build up what basically had been a neglected resource, that is, fishing tourism in the west. I believe there is a great need to get away from the haphazard methods that we as communities employed in the past. We have to go into the marketplace and attract people to our areas and, essentially to provide them with all-in packages; that they would, on arrival, be made aware of all the fishing facilities, etc., and also that their entertainment, accommodation and so on would be looked after.

The whole idea of developing integrated packages has to be concentrated on much more in the Irish tourism scene. Most people envisage this type of package deal in relation to large hotels. We decided this year, as a Gaeltacht community, to try to find out what interest would be in, for example, the idea of a package holiday in the Gaeltacht for one week for families, based on our heritage and on the fact that we are Gaeltacht areas, the idea being that there would be activities organised for people of all age groups and particularly for family groups. From the market testing we have done we have found there is great interest in that type of presentation and packaging, that there is a massive potential for development in that type of specialist holiday particularly for the bed and breakfast trade which for too long has been dependent on a very short season of maybe six to eight weeks and also on a kind of hit-and-miss arrival of tourists without warning. We all know that the profitability of keeping guests relates to bed nights and occupancy and, therefore, the idea of organising a longer season and full houses must be very attractive.

I would like to comment on some of the schemes that are available to aid the development of tourism. It is a source of worry to us that these seem in their conception to favour the large scale development and not to favour the small scale community-based development. This is a pity because the potential for development in community-based tourism is vast. It also has the benefit of bringing tourists into parts of the country where other industry is not likely to be so successful. The attaching of grants for facilities to numbers of bedrooms etc., is unfortunate and I hope there will be a change from that policy to one where areas could go in with an integrated package based on all the resources in a given area, be they natural amenities such as lakes or the sea, or the community resources of pitch and putt courses, tennis courts, heritage centres and also on all existing accommodation available in such an area.

We also have to make our tourists aware of the facilities that are available to them. In the west of Ireland there have been very many fine sports facilities provided but these have not been opened up to tourists. The weather has been mentioned as a factor. When we consider our climate we must aim at providing facilities and things to do in wet weather and in weather that is not sunny. A lot of work has to be done in that regard.

I could not speak on tourism without making special reference to the islands. Anybody involved in tourism and involved with the islands realises that the huge attraction of the islands is their unspoiled beauty and also the people themselves. It is of the utmost importance that the island communities be involved totally in the tourist industry as it affects their areas. I have been worried about developments in recent years where vast numbers of tourists visit various offshore islands along our coast but where the number of nights being spent on average on the islands by tourists is reducing. There is very little contact with the island way of life. The visitors tend to come by boat, stay on the island for two or three hours, perhaps bring their lunch with them and depart from the island without having any real contact with the people. It is important, if we want to maintain a quality type tourism, if we want to increase the revenue from tourism, that a much more comprehensive plan be drawn up for island tourism in this country.

I would like to refer to the environment. We convince ourselves that we have a beautiful green island. That is true but those of us who travel the roads of the most famous scenic spots in our country would have to be concerned about the damage we are doing to our environment. Our roadsides are not kept to the standard that I would like and litter and rubbish is thrown around. It is a good thing that most people stay in their cars and do not walk and look into the hedgerows because the image we have as a green island would very quickly disappear. We have to embark on a programme of removing unsightly telephone and ESB cables, particularly in tourist towns like Leenane, Roundstone and other areas so that the character of these towns is preserved and their tourist potential developed. I would like to see a small plan drawn up town-by-town in conjunction with the people in these areas to improve the total environment of these rural areas. In that way tremendous progress could be made.

There has been recent controversy in Connemara, a controversy that one could argue was a debate between getting the tourists in and providing something for them to do when they get in, that is the controversy about the airport in Connemara. I do not want to go into the details of that debate but we have to integrate our planning. We have to ensure that the legitimate requirements of infrastructure are met, the legitimate requirements of bringing people into areas are met and, at the same time, that the wonderful landscape is protected.

Tá an-áthas orm go raibh deis agam labhairt ar an ábhar seo agus, mar chríoch ba mhaith liom a rá ó thaobh na Gaeltachta de gur dóigh liomsa nár forbraíodh riamh plean faoina dhéanfaí forbairt na tuarasóireachta sa Ghaeltacht a bhunú ar an Ghaeilge sna ceantair sin. Díríodh an iomarca, dar liomsa, ar ghasúir a thabhairt go choláistí Gaeilge agus níor breathnaíodh riamh go ceart ar an deis atá san Ghaeltacht tuarasóirí a tharraingt ní amháin ón tír seo ach ó thíortha i gcéin i ngeall ar an saibhreas cultúrtha atá sna ceantair sin. Bheadh mise go mór i bhfábhar go dtabharfaí, i gcomhar le Bord Fáilte, cúram turasóireachta na Gaeltachta do Údaras na Gaeltachta, agus sílim, ar an gcaoi sin, go bhféadfaimis turasóireacht na Gaeltachta a fhorbairt ar chaoi nach bhfuil sé déanta go dtí seo.

Mr. Norris

I would like to point out, not at all in any churlish sense, that we have had two sessions of Fianna Fáil time, probably due to some slight misunderstanding. There was a part of Fianna Fáil time that was very generously shared with Fine Gael. This misunderstanding can sometimes lead to a difficulty and I hope that in future if we agree to the sharing of time it will be very accurately observed. I say this only because I am a member of a threatened species that needs protection, a Member of the Independent benches, and in tourism it is necessary to protect rare birds.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Farrell)

It is the privilege of the Chair to decide on whom he will call.

Mr. Norris

Oh, I see. I am quite horrified at this announcement. The situation is infinitely worse than I imagined. I suppose I ought to be grateful to have been called at all.

Acting Chairman

I can assure you that while you are around you are not a species that is in any way in danger.

Mr. Norris

I am very relieved to hear that.

The question of tourism is a very important one and has been recognised for a long time to be so. It is one of the principal income generators in this country, and we are aware of that. That means we must look at the product, at what we are actually selling to our customers. I have very little difficulty, as I am sure yourself, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, would have, in identifying certain elements of this product. You do not have to go very far. You need only look around you in this magnificent and beautifully restored Chamber to see one of the things that brings tourists to this country — the exquisite craftsmanship of Dublin, of Irish artists in the 18th Century, in stucco and plaster and in the various associated arts of architecture, the beautiful fireplaces here, the superb work on the doors and the breathtaking ceiling in this Chamber. This is one item that brings tourists to this country. This is something on which I feel particularly strongly. However, the motion talks about the potential for developing tourism in an all-Ireland basis, so I will resist the temptation to confine my remarks exclusively to Dublin or to 18th Century Georgian artchitecture.

I welcome the fact that the Government in putting forward this motion have acknowledged the all-Ireland impact of their policies. I cannot help remarking on the irony of the headline in both evening papers, which to a certain extent contradicts that, by highlighting the fact that the Government at present find themselves in he European Court on the subject of the tariff barriers erected by them at the Border consolidating that Border. I welcome anything that indicates we do indeed see the importance and virtue of an all-Ireland context.

A number of people spoke of a cross-Border context and the importance of trying where possible to integrate our approach in tourism with the Northern community, and I welcome that. The Minister will know, as I know, because I have also worked for a number or years in a voluntary capacity with Bord Fáilte in promoting this island in North America, that the situation in the North of Ireland is one really important counter-indicator in marketing, because Americans in particular find it quite difficult to separate the two sections of the island. When a bomb goes off in Belfast it has repercussions in Philadelphia, New Orleans and California. Anybody who has associations with the tourist industry knows this — in other words, there is a political dimension to our conception of all-Ireland tourism.

I must draw the attention of the Minister and the House to the fact that there is on the Order Paper a motion in the names of all the Opposition benches calling on the IRA to cease their attacks on the rail link. This is very important because a number of speakers spoke, for example, about the air connection between Belfast and Dublin. For a lot of people that is not a mass tourist potential, but the trains are. It is also a train that has a very beautiful and scenic route. It is part of our own culture; we are entitled to it and it is something that is also important from a tourism point of view. I hope there will be an early date given for the taking of this important motion that is already making its progress through local authority chambers in the North of Ireland and has been placed before the European Parliament. I hope note will be taken of that.

It is also necessary to look at the question of European funding and the Structural Funds, for example, at the moment being parcelled out. When I look at this question of Structural Funds and the way in which they are divided, I have to say this is certainly an area where an all-Ireland approach is necessary and, as far as I can ascertain, is being implemented as far as possible by Bord Fáilte. As I understand it, Bord Fáilte have the principal responsibility rather than the Department of Finance in administering this section of the European Community funding. When these funds are being disbursed, once more it is important to know precisely what is the product. I have to say this as an aside that I really think that in reading Bord Fáilte reports from time to time disproportionate attention is paid to things like fishing and golf and so on. I know there are afficionados of these sports in the House and I do not want to offend them but I just wonder sometimes if the yield returned from investment in golf and so on actually merits this kind of spending on it.

With regard to fishing, like many other people, I welcome the end of the rod licence dispute and I would like to pay tribute to the special diplomatic skills of the Minister in bringing this situation about. It is very important that these kind of unpleasant disputes do not tarnish our reputation and do not disaffect our clients from coming to this country. Who are our clients? If you look at Bord Fáilte's report, a couple of very interesting things emerge. One in particular struck me, that is, that our catchment area that has the highest increase is our neighbouring island — 25 per cent of our intake is British. It is rather remarkable as it is five times the increase in our North American trade. I think we ought to bear that in mind when we are dealing with our tourist market, that we are dealing with a market that has a capacity to increase, and a particular capacity to increase in certain sections of that market, and that they are geographically identifiable as a market, as is our product identifiable.

A number of people have said we are not going to attract people here by climate and that is perfectly true. I do not think very many people are interested in drizzle and mist and 200 days of rain per annum and so on, so what have we got? We have, in my opinion, basically two significant elements in addition to recreational sports of various kinds and agri-business and so on. We have books and bricks. We have literature, music, culture generally and we have the built environment. From a Dublin point of view this is extraordinarily important.

I listened with interest to people talking about heritage parks and theme parks and so on as if by living in some kind of glorified architectural Disneyland we could attract tourists. I do not believe that. I look with some suspicion and concern at the development of heritage parks as if that was all that was necessary in order to attract tourists. What has been described by a distinguished journalist as an architectural zoo as if it was sufficient only to have certain little rebuilt examples of out best styles of architecture, put them in a compound and force people through them and collect the admission fee for them. I do not believe that is what is necessary. What is necessary is a respect for the complete environment, including the built environment.

If I look around the city of Dublin, for example, which I do because I live here and because it is also nominated as European City of Culture for 1991, I am not entirely heartened. I would like to give a couple of examples. Perhaps the Minister may not have the opportunity to respond, but he might like to bear them in mind and take them back and do a bit of inquiring and digging. I worked over many years with Bord Fáilte and I have the greatest respect for them. I welcome the kind of work that is being done, for example, by Dublin Tourism and the various figures whom it would be inappropriate and improper for me to name. But I look at places like Malahide Castle and I say, "hats off" to them. I look at Newbridge House and I say, "hats off" to them. I look at the now proposed Writers' Museum in Parnell Square and I wish them well. But I wonder about the situation that was allowed to arise with regard to the devastation of those buildings, a devastation systematically carried on by the Dublin Vocational Education Committee. I wonder, are they going to be made pay for the damage that was done to buildings that were part of our heritage, acknowledged List One buildings. They were warned and warned and warned again what was happening. Fireplaces were stolen, ceilings were stolen, staircases were stolen and the Vocational Education Committee of the City of Dublin sat idly by and did absolutely nothing whatever. They then presented the bill to Dublin Tourism so that these buildings could be restored as an important cultural centre in memory of our great writers. The Irish people are entitled to know——

Acting Chairman

I think it is unfair to name somebody.

Mr. Norris

I am naming a body that is publicly accountable and I insist that they should be publicly accountable.

Acting Chairman

They cannot defend themselves here and you have privilege. In all fairness you should withdraw their name. You are not entitled to pinpoint people by what you say and it is unfair. You have the privilege of the House but they are not here to defend themselves and I must defend them.

Mr. Norris

Thank you very much. I accept what you say absolutely. Can I make the point that this has been very widely said, I am saying nothing within the privilege of the House that has not been said both by myself and by correspondents in most of the principal newspapers. So, whatever technical ruling you make, I will be happy to abide by it. It is a very important point. It is a point of public accountablility and money is being spent.

I will go on from that to the question of moneys being spent. Considerable moneys will be spent on the writers' museum, which I believe is excellent, but I want to make sure that these kinds of money are spent wisely because I know that there is not a huge amount of money available. The figures when you look at the Structural Fund allocations appear to be enormous but when you syphon them down, when you operate the different kinds of sieves and refine out the applications, you find there is not quite as much money as you might have suspected in the beginning. Therefore, it is extremely important that we be totally responsible in the spending of that money.

I would now like to come to my principal argument which, not surprisingly, revolves around the great name of some of our writers, particularly James Joyce. We are all aware of the fact that when cultural tourism is mentioned — and cultural tourism is the area that has the greatest single capacity for growth within an already growing market — it means very often literature and the name that identifies this country is James Joyce. In tourism terms we are very lucky. I remember senior members of Bord Fáilte when I was going over to North America to broadcast on television, saying to me "You know you are lucky" and this was repeated in the studios in New York where they said "You do not realise how lucky you are coming from Ireland because you have such immediate brand identification. It is the only country that has identification with a colour. When you see green you think Ireland and likewise when you hear the name of Ireland you think of the colour green".

Acting Chairman

One minute left, Senator.

Mr. Norris

In that one minute I would like to make a final point about the situation with regard to James Joyce. It has been acknowledged also in the first broadcast by Louis Clohessy, who is the gentleman in charge of having Dublin the European Cultural City. The first name mentioned was James Joyce. I believe and am confident, after recent meetings with the highest level of Bord Fáilte, that a very important development for Dublin is on the point of departure and that is a real endorsement of the James Joyce Cultural Centre in North Great George's Street in the centre of the city. I believe this is vital and I am very glad there are significant indications within the industry that the importance is recognised. They recognise it because, for example, when the heads of some of the biggest Japanese banks were over I was asked to take them around——

Acting Chairman

Your time is up, Senator.

Mr. Norris

May I just finish my sentence, please? I will be quick. In view of the confusion earlier I am sure I will be allowed to finish my sentence.

Acting Chairman

There is no injury time.

Mr. Norris

All right, have it your own way. You might as well. You are the Acting Chairman so I have to bow to your ruling but I look forward to another opportunity for expatiating on the importance of the Joyce Centre.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism and Transport (Mr. Lyons)

Ar dtús ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil an-áthas orm go bhfuil an rún seo os comhair an Tí agus go bhfuil seans agam conduí leis agus labhairt air.

I welcome the motion before the House, that Seanad Éireann notes the potential for developing tourism on an all-Ireland basis. I endorse the sentiments of the motion and the contributions made by Members of the House. I will endeavour in the limited time available to me to answer queries put by Senators. I wish to acknowledge the positive approach of Senators and their obvious research into and knowledge of the subject of tourism. Admittedly, a few Members strayed a little from the terms of the motion, but through no fault of theirs.

The important aspects of the motion were mentioned several times. It was acknowledged that the Government which came into office in March 1987 took the initiative in raising the dormant, fragmented, contracting industry known as tourism, realising its potential and instructing Bord Fáilte to get on with the job. Since then tourism has taken on a new meaning. It has become a national movement now. It is the new buzz word, and, I welcome that. As one who has been in continuous office since we came into Government in 1987 with my two colleagues, the former Tourism Minister, Deputy John Wilson and the present Minister Deputy Séamus Brennan, I saw the continuity in what was being done. Having realised the potential and developed it here we then developed a rapport and subsequent active participation with the Northern Ireland Tourism Board. This is really the kernal of this motion.

It is very fashionable now to mention green issues. Well, early in 1989 our promotion in the UK on radio and television — and I was there at the launching of it — had the motto "Extend the Green Carpet". Since we were knee-high to a grasshopper we heard about extending the red carpet; well, we have extended the green carpet. Of course, in Ireland we have been green for decades and even centuries.

The multiplicity of brochures was mentioned. This fragmentation of effort has been the subject of debate with a view to co-ordinating all promotional efforts in an endeavour to eliminate duplication of resources. The policy is to promote products rather than the region. The brochures are produced on a trans border basis, in keeping with this policy of eliminating duplication.

The Government will continue to encourage and facilitate tourism promotion on an all-Ireland basis where it is seen to be mutually beneficial. I would like to give some practical examples of the co-operation I have mentioned. During many meetings and at various functions I had the privilege of working side by side with the former CEO of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, Shane Belford. I have to acknowledge I have not yet met his replacement, Bert O'Hara, but I will hope to do that very shortly. I have recently met Margot O'Reilly the marketing manager, first at the Point Depot in Dublin. When I went to open the Leisure and Trade Fair in Cork recently the first stand inside the door was a Northern Ireland Tourism Board stand manned by Margot O'Reilly and her wonderful staff whom I had met at the Point Depot. Then I went to the UK last week and, lo and behold, the same people are there in Manchester and London. I visited the British Tourist Office in Lower Regent Street and there I found one long counter manned by Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourism Board. If that is not a confirmed expression of co-operation between the two boards I do not know what is.

Quite recently in my own office I had the privilege of meeting Peter Bottomley, an Under-Secretary of State in Northern Ireland, to discuss mutual matters concerning tourism. I confirm something that was mentioned by one of the Senators, that I am travelling to Berlin next week to attend a major international tourism promotion fair, where Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board are to operate a stand jointly, the cost of which is being met from the International Fund for Ireland. This is a further demonstration of the potential all-Ireland basis mentioned in the motion.

Very often we have a lot of talk. As you know, talk is very easy, but it must be followed up. There is an old saying that actions speak louder than words. I want to assure the Members of the Seanad by the few indications I have given that practical co-operation exists, has existed, is being strengthened and will continue.

I would like to comment in the time available to me on one or two items raised. The first is accommodation. Mention was made of accommodation grants being available to certain categories of hotels to the detriment of others. I should like to make it crystal-clear to everybody that there are no accommodation grants available anywhere in the country. That was discontinued in 1986 and the only grants that were paid out in 1987 were those that had already been committed in 1986. It is important that the year should be clearly registered in people's minds. No accommodation grants have been approved since 1986; those that were given out in 1987 were those that were committed in the previous year. However, certain categories — hotels, guesthouses, caravan parks, holiday cottages and apartments — are all eligible for the business expansion scheme investment which we introduced to tourism whereas previously it had only been available to manufacturing industry. Grant-assistance schemes are designed to promote amenities and facilities which will, in themselves, attract tourists to a region.

One of the strong points of selling for us abroad in particular and at home as well is the broad spectrum of accommodation available in the various segments in the market, from the presidential suites in the higher class of hotels right through the classifications A, B and C. We have accommodation in the industry to satisfy whatever requirement is asked of us by visitors.

Border counties have received substantial funding for tourism capital development running into millions of púnts from two sources in particular — the International Fund for Ireland and the European Regional Development Fund, which gave money for special assistance for the Border counties. Otherwise, the policy is to promote all of the country equally without favouritism and to highlight the products available in each region or sector of the country.

Mention was made of the elimination of overhead cables. I took special note of it, because it is something that I have been endeavouring to ensure wherever I can. In the Tidy Towns competitions marks are given to any town or area that eliminates these unsightly overhead cables. In that way we are playing our part to eliminate this multiplicity of standards and poles, whether they be metal or timber, and the cobwebs of wires you see in some towns and villages.

Aontaím chomh maith leis an méid a dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Cuív thar ceann na nGaeltachtaí. Déanfaimid ár ndícheall chun cúnamh agus cabhair a thabhairt agus chun misneach a mhúscailt i measc mhuintir na Gaeltachta, i gcomhar leis na boird réigiúnda. Tuigimid gur iontach an rud é ár gcultúr féin a bheith le tais-peáint againn do thurasóirí ón Fhrainc, ón Ghearmáin, ón Iodáil nó as áit ar bith eile. Ábhar bróid dúinn uilig é cultúr agus teanga dár gcuid féin a bheith againn.

The sustained growth in Irish tourism since 1987 represents a remarkable recovery. Thankfully, the situation of the early 1980s, which had seen little or no growth in visitor numbers, has been turned around and the industry is now beginning to realise its undoubted potential as a generator of significant foreign revenue and the provider of viable employment.

Mention was made of the Structural Funds. On 4 January last the House will be aware that the Minister for Tourism and Transport, my colleague, Deputy Séamus Brennan, announced details of the Government's tourism operational programme approved by the EC. This programme involves a massive injection of £146 million in EC Structural Funds to facilitate public and private investment in the development of a tourism product as well as in marketing and training. On its own the programme will generate total investment of well over £300 million. However, if one takes into account other investment which will be taking place outside the programme in areas like accommodation, catering and transport services, total investment over the next four years is likely to top the £600 million mark. The Northern Ireland authorities, through the British Government, are similarly likely to reap the benefits to tourism in that area from the injection of the EC Structural Funds.

I should point out that tourism investment will be complemented by a range of policy initiatives and development programmes in areas such as access transport, where we have achieved so much in the past three years, in airport development, roads and the environment, all of which are crucial to the overall development of tourism. I would like to stress the importance of the environment on which the industry in both parts of this island depends so much. I have always maintained that our physical environment is the cornerstone of our tourism product. The major environmental protection package announced recently by the Minister for the Environment will have the most positive impact further enhancing the attractiveness of our environment for our foreign and domestic holidaymakers.

Clean air, clean water, open spaces and low density of population are some of the strong points we can talk about as well as every activity and leisure facility that one can take part in. Of course, people do not come to Ireland merely for the weather. If they were coming for the sunshine and the weather they would go to the swimming pools of Europe, to the Mediterranean or to the other exotic places around. We have many more strong points to sell and we are successfully selling and marketing the amenities of our country. They are wide and varied.

Mention was made of golf. I do not know what is this hype people have about promoting golf. I was very glad one-and-a-half years ago when our boys won the Dunhill Trophy. I spoke to 400 or 500 Americans. I was very proud of the success of our people and I am still proud of their success. I couple with it the success of our cyclists in France and our foot-ballers in Europe. They are going on to the World Cup. All of these activities have created a very good image for our athletes in the first instance and, more importantly, for the way our supporters behave themselves in support of these teams and these individuals. I commend the motion to the House.

Mrs. Honan

I want to thank the Minister of State for the very active and continued role he has played as Junior Minister in the Department. Perhaps it is again, a guideline for Taoisigh, that they should leave Ministers in certain Departments for a longer term rather than a short term, when we see the results achieved by this Minister of State.

This is an area where there is extraordinary scope for job creation. I would like to thank those people who spoke for their comments. There were many excellent contributions and it would be wrong if I did not comment on just a few.

There was criticism and also complimentary remarks about Bord Fáilte and the Minister has dealt with those. Others talked about indoor and other activities. In the past ten years the Department have made extraordinary headway. Many Senators admitted we have not the clean environment we should have, that Ireland was not as green an island as we would like to think it was. One area that was left out — I thought some Senator would have included it — is the theatre. It has played an important role for people visiting our nation, other than for playing golf and other sports. I thought Senator Norris would refer to it but he did not.

This was an excellent debate, I say here publicly that the co-operation tonight between Senators on both sides of the House, even in dividing their time, is a typical Seanad attitude. It is good to see parties generous enough to share 15 minutes time between two speakers. I welcome that as a long-serving Senator.

I will not delay the House any longer. I thank the Minister on behalf of my party who proposed this excellent motion on the subject of tourism. Like Senator Ó Cuív, a motion dealing with a subject on an all-Ireland basis holds a special place for me. Tourism has an important role to play in the Ireland of today.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mrs. Honan

Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 21 Feb 1990