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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 28 Nov 1990

Vol. 126 No. 14

International Development Association (Amendment) Bill, 1990 [ Certified Money Bill]: Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of this Bill is to authorise a contribution of £12,740,000 by the Irish Government to the Ninth Replenishment of the Resources of the International Development Association.

The International Development Association, or IDA for short, is a sister organisation of the World Bank. It was established in 1960 and complements the work of the bank by lending to the poorer developing countries on much more favourable terms than are possible for the bank itself. The two institutions are essentially one and the same, sharing the same organisation management and personnel but they act in separate domains as regards both lending and financing. In essence, the differences between them are confined to the way in which they raise funds, the terms attached to their loans and their respective groups of borrowing countries.

The World Bank raises most of its funds by borrowing on the world's capital markets and on-lends these funds, at more or less commercial rates, to a wide range of developing countries. The central objective of IDA, on the other hand, is to make development finance accessible to those countries for which the World Bank's credit terms are too expensive. IDA, therefore, is funded by regular replenishments, or grant contributions, from its richer member countries and by repayments of past IDA credits. In this way, its loans can be interest-free and are given for periods of 35-40 years, with a grace period of ten years.

IDA plays a key role in the economic and social development of the poorest countries. Its purpose is not to provide short term humanitarian aid, but to create the conditions in which the countries themselves can permanently raise the living standards of their peoples. Its lending programmes are, primarily, aimed at providing resources for investment projects that are not only essential for the economic and social development of the borrowing country, but are also technically and economically sound. IDA also grants credits for more comprehensive economic programmes which facilitate the long term growth of the entire economy, or of a particular sector. In recent years, it has, increasingly, provided financial aid to enable member countries to introduce and implement urgent economic policy reforms and structural adjustments.

Only the very poorest countries can benefit from IDA lending. A per capita income of $1,135 is the level above which a country becomes ineligible for IDA loans. However, in practice, very few credits have been provided to countries with a per capita income of more than $700 and the vast majority — about 93 per cent — have gone to those with a per capita income of less than $545. Thus, while World Bank loans are distributed fairly evenly among the higher income developing countries of Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean, Europe, the Middle East and North Africa, IDA lending is generally concentrated in the poorer, densely populated, countries of Asia and the least developed areas of sub-Saharan Africa.

As I indicated earlier, the main source of funds for IDA's lending programmes is the periodic replenishment of its resources by grant donations from its member countries. For the purpose of determining the appropriate level of contribution, IDA distinguishes between two groups of members. Part I represents the industrial countries, while Part II groups together the developing countries. The vast bulk of its resources are provided by Part I members, though some Part II members also contribute on a voluntary basis.

The donor resources made available to IDA during the Eighth Replenishment, were scheduled to be fully committed by June 1990. In anticipation of this, the representatives of the donor Governments began negotiations in earnest for the Ninth Replenishment in February 1989. The negotiations were concluded at a meeting in Washington in December of the same year. The task facing the donor representatives — or IDA Deputies as they are known — was to reconcile a number of, sometimes conflicting, elements. Their first priority had to be to work out an agreement which would ensure continued adequate funding for an institution to which their governments were committed. At the same time, they had to be satisfied that the level of their government's contribution was appropriate in the context of those from other countries and also in the context of other competing claims on their own overall aid budgets.

The discussion began with a review of the evolution of IDA's role in the years immediately past. There was substantial support for the direction that IDA was taking and three programme areas were identified for higher priority in the years ahead. These were: an even stronger focus on poverty reduction; increased support for sound macro-economic and sectoral policies and the further strengthening of IDA's activities in environmental protection and improvement.

The donors stressed that IDA's lending programme should retain a sharp focus on the poorest countries and especially on the poorest sections of the populations in these countries. They recognised the importance of national plans and strategies aimed specifically at eliminating the causes of poverty and helping to alleviate its worst effects. In particular, they welcomed the significant increase proposed in the share of human resources lending during the IDA 9 period. To underline their concern in this area, they urged that in allocating resources between countries greater weight should be given to the performance of the authorities in tackling the poverty issue. We in Ireland have highlighted the need to pay particular attention to the plight of the very poor when seeking to secure long term growth, through adjustment, in low-income countries. We are, therefore, fully supportive of the efforts to ensure that IDA maintains its antipoverty emphasis at the core of all its activities.

The donors considered it important for IDA to continue playing a central role in developing and supporting adjustment programmes, both through quick-disbursing adjustment loans and through investment lending for particular projects. It must be stressed that adjustment programmes cannot be imposed on countries by outside agencies, if they are to be successful. While IDA and other donors can provide useful advice and assistance, the Government itself must be fully responsible for the development of an adjustment programme and strongly committed to its implementation. It must also seek to develop strong working relationships with voluntary organisations, both domestic and foreign, and to involve these organisations in the process to the greatest extent possible. IDA itself has been conscious of the invaluable role that non-governmental organisations can play in the development process generally and has been putting considerable effort into strengthening its own relationships with them.

The fact that environmental degradation, in its many forms, constitutes a significant threat to economic development, has become increasingly evident during the past decade. Sound environmental management is fundamental to the development process and the World Bank group, including IDA, now emphasises the need to make environmental concerns an integral part of its activities. Because of the pervasive character of environmental problems, it is necessary that the traditional emphasis on individual projects be supplemented by environmental management that is integrated into economic policy-making at all levels of government. Designing economic incentives to induce environmentally sound behaviour is especially important. I warmly welcome IDA's intention to complete environmental action plans for all its borrowers, during the IDA 9 period and to give priority to those countries where major problems have been identified. It is also seeking to promote a constructive dialogue with concerned public groups and has promised to involve them at all stages of the environmental assessment process.

The size of the Ninth Replenishment was the subject of extensive discussions during the negotiations, as was the relative contributions of the different member countries. The Deputies decided to seek the largest feasible replenishment, consistent with the need for a reasonable sharing of the burden among all donors. In the light of the strong case for maintaining the real level of IDA 8, the donors agreed, after protracted discussions, to recommend a replenishment of 11.68 billion SDRs — the amount estimated to be the equivalent of the total IDA 8 replenishment at 1989 prices. Agreeing the equitable distribution of this total among the donors proved no easy task. Burden sharing has been an accepted principle of all IDA negotiations, but the determination of relative shares is becoming increasingly difficult over the years.

The system of burden sharing eventually agreed took members' percentage share in the Eight Replenishment at the starting position and adjusted those shares to take account of inflation and exchange rate changes in member countries in the interim. Because of variations in the inflation and exchange rates of the different countries, this led to significant changes in the relative contributions of some donors vis-a-vis their IDA 8 shares. The shares of some countries declined while others increased. Ireland's percentage share went down marginally from 0.11 per cent to 0.10 per cent.

However, the sum of these potential contributions did not reach the 11.68 billion SDRs required to maintain the real value of IDA 8. In order to fill the remaining gap, a number of countries, including Ireland, pledged supplementary contributions, over and above their agreed share. Switzerland, not then a member of IDA, agreed to make available a grant of 184 million SDRs. Repayments of 1.58 billion SDRs due from earlier IDA loans, will further swell the resources available for commitment by IDA over the three year period covered by IDA 9, bringing the total to 13.26 billion SDRs, equivalent to some 12 billion Irish pounds.

Ireland's contributions to IDA are counted as part of the Official Development Assistance programme. IDA's emphasis on the needs of the poorest developing countries reflects the priorities of our own bilateral aid programme. Many developing countries, and particularly those of sub-Saharan Africa, have experienced a decade of falling per capita incomes, increasing hunger and accelerating ecological degradation. External resource flows, of which development assistance has formed an increasingly important element, will continue to play a crucial role. Low income countries cannot be expected to succeed with their own very laudable efforts, unaided. They will continue to need practical assistance to achieve and sustain improvements in their living standards. The resources pledged for IDA 9 will enable IDA to make a significant contribution in this regard. Ireland has helped, in no small way, by agreeing — subject to legislative approval — to provide a supplementary contribution of 2 million SDRs, or £1.82 million. As a percentage of our basic contribution, this voluntary payment is among the highest of all donors.

Before concluding, I would like to refer for a moment to the debt problem of developing countries generally. That problem is still a long way from resolution. Nevertheless, the new initiatives for helping debtor countries to reduce their debt are working reasonably well and can be improved with experience. In most countries, however, the debt crisis is only a symptom of deeper economic problems. It is not enough, therefore, to manage the debt; it is essential at the same time to correct the underlying economic weaknesses and distortions. There has been a positive international response, particularly from the official sector, to those heavily indebted countries who have demonstrated their commitment to implement necessary economic policies. I am confident this will encourage others to follow their example. As regards the debt of low income countries to official creditors, I very much welcome the growing recognition that more needs to be done in the area of debt forgiveness.

The developed countries can also play a vital indirect role in resolving the debt problem by managing their own economies properly. While the problem of external imbalances has eased to some extent, it still remains a barrier to economic expansion and to continuing financial stability worldwide. Greater adjustment is needed on the part of the major surplus and deficit countries. Inflation must be tackled using the widest possible range of policy instruments. Undue reliance on interest rates to fight inflation can lead to higher international interest rates which, in turn, have devastating effects on the heavily indebted developing countries.

Development assistance will, however, remain a vital ingredient of the cure for the difficulties of the poorest of developing countries. Such assistance is far more than a simple tranfer of official resources. At least as essential and as valuable are the intangible elements of skills, knowhow, practical experience in the field, and so on. The resources which Ireland possesses in this regard are enormous, given the relative size of our economy. I would like, therefore, to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the unstinting work and invaluable contribution of the thousands of Irish people who live and work in developing countries — our missionaries, volunteer workers, professionals and others. Their achievements have been and continue to be, a source of real pride to us.

Ireland's membership of IDA was authorised by the International Development Association Act, 1960. Our contributions to the various replenishments have each been authorised by amendments to that Act. This Bill will enable us to make our contribution to IDA 9.

I, therefore, commend the Bill for the approval of the House.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I recognise the pressures on him as a senior Minister in Government and I hope it augurs well for how we will be viewing our general ODA contribution in the year ahead that the Minister has made a personal statement by taking the Bill himself rather than sending in a Minister of State. I sincerely welcome him and thank him for it. As the Minister probably realises, there was some disappointment in recent times among Campaign Aid, a group that represents many voluntary bodies in the country, young and old, who are genuinely concerned about the level of our ODA provision that, for whatever reason, the Taoiseach was not in a position to meet them. I thank the Minister for his personal interest in giving of his time to come here to deal with this Bill.

As we know, Ireland's contribution to IDA is counted as part of our official development assistance programme, so we cannot speak specifically to this Bill without developing the whole concept of our ODA programme and the effective reductions in recent years in the amount we contribute to ODA. I welcome the points made by the Minister in relation to IDA. It is fairly technical; the relationship between the World Bank and IDA is really only a technical difference in terms of the administration of the fund which is effectively administered by the personnel and administration of the World Bank. We note our position in relation to the contribution of the developing countries and, perhaps, wonder why, despite the fact that successive Ministers for Foreign Affairs have held the position that Ireland would always contribute to the Third World increasingly as our economic circumstances allowed. That is not a political statement. Successive Ministers for Foreign Affairs have held that point of view.

Unfortunately, in the 1990 budget, in which the Minister for Finance who is with us this afternoon predicted an increased GNP of over 4.5 per cent for 1990 he knocked £1 million off our ODA contribution, off the amount that had been announced some short few months previously in our Estimates. We got the explanation for that at the time. It is, in the interests of accuracy, always worth recording exactly why that happened. It is very hard to justify, given our particular position as a nation. Apparently — this is the explanation given — there was an initial over-estimate of Ireland's contribution to the Lomé Convention in 1990 of £1 million, which reverted to the Exchequer subsequently, while the disaster relief provision was reduced by £100,000 to cover assistance for Romania. The result of these cutbacks effectively meant that our ODA for this year amounted to just £34.466 million, which would be the equivalent of 0.158 per cent of our GNP.

We have all spoken on this matter, I spoke only last February on it. On the Finance Bill in May I referred to the ODA programme. We know what the UN target is in terms of contributions to developing countries. It is a little beyond our reach at the moment. I do not seriously expect the Minister to announce that we will hit it this year or next year, but if we do not show goodwill in terms of incremental increases in the amount of our ODA, budget on budget, we will never reach the 0.7 target we have all agreed is optimum, is ideal.

As a small country in the European Community and as a country that has been the recipient of very generous grants from Brussels since 1973, aid for what we call an economically and specially disadvantaged country in the context of the European Community, we have been very well looked after. We have seen the effect of the doubling of the Structural Funds to allow us to accommodate to the post-1992 situation in the Community without any greater degree of disadvantage. We generally have been treated rather generously by the Community because of our particular disadvantage relative to the rest of the Community. Therefore, as a country that knows and appreciates what it is to be the beneficiary, to be in receipt of help from the Community, we appreciate more than many developed countries, the importance of aid to less developed countries than ourselves.

We have proven ourselves over the years to be a particularly generous nation. Any time the Irish people have been asked for emergency aid or voluntary assistance to virtually any programme in terms of ODA or relief of any kind, they have never been found wanting. We have a whole programme of different voluntary agencies that have done work that really one cannot do justice to in a few words in this House, or indeed anywhere else. If they represent the will and views of the Irish people we should be in a position to reflect officially the views and wishes of the Irish people by ensuring that our ODA level reflects what the people of this country want, reflects the generosity of the people we represent. It has not been done, and it has not been done for some time. It has come to the point now that the wishes of successive Ministers for Foreign Affairs have been thwarted. I can only ask the Minister to explain to us why the apparent wishes of his Minister for Foreign Affairs in terms approaching the UN target in increments has not been realised.

I want, with the forebearance of the Leas-Chathaoirleach, to run back over the history of ODA in this country and to unashamedly put the Fine Gael position on the record in this regard. Our Official Development Aid programme was first established by a Fine Gael-led Government in 1974 on the initiative of the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Garret FitzGerald. Indeed, we must not forget to mention, specifically, that as Minister for Foreign Affairs in 1973 he established APSO, the Association for Personnel Service Overseas, a group I hold in affection. They go and try to teach people in less developed countries to help themselves. Since they were founded by Deputy FitzGerald in 1973, they have had over 1,000 assignments in developed countries on a voluntary semi-professional and professional basis.

Indeed, there is also another side to this worth mentioning. There is a tremendous economic spin-off in this country which is directly related to our investment of time, people and money overseas in developing countries. Last year alone, £800 million worth of exports went to developing countries directly from our aid relationship, which is a tremendous advantage to us. It is not our motivating factor in helping less developed countries. Nonetheless it is a downside which is very beneficial to this country as well.

Deputy Garret FitzGerald established our first development aid programme and we are very proud of the effective and professional manner in which it has developed. Up until the severe cutbacks of 1986, this country enjoyed a growing reputation worldwide in development affairs. The programme developed, however, without any overall published strategy. In the 16 years since its inception, and in the past few years in particular, certain problems have been identified and during the last Dáil, the 25th Dáil, the problems became more critical. The immediate and most urgent problem which was highlighted at the time was the depth of the cutbacks in the aid programme since 1987. I believe I am right in saying the Minister present in the Seanad was Minister for Finance all those years since 1987. There is an unprecedented need now for such aid in developing countries. I urge him, with the Book of Estimates about to be published as we understand and with the budget around the corner just into the New Year, to please ensure that we make the first step towards redressing the balance and redressing the cutbacks that have been a feature of his budgets since 1987.

The cutbacks of the past three years have undermined our development programme and must be reversed. There must be an immediate commitment by the Irish Government to return to the 1986 aid level and to a fixed yearly increase in ODA allocations until we meet, at the very least, the 0.7 per cent target of GNP. The administration of development assistance in the Department of Foreign Affairs suffers from constant changes of personnel and, if I may say so, lack of Cabinet attention. This problem can be addressed, either by establishing an independent agency under the supervision of the Department to administer the Department's programme or by strengthening the ODA structure within Foreign Affairs. Fine Gael would like to see a working party set up that would be representative of both the Government and voluntary agencies to recommend to the Government a policy in this general area.

Changes are needed at Government level. Development co-operation reaches deeply into the areas of trade, commerce and, increasingly, into international finance. As the brief is generally handled by a Minister of State, issues reach the Cabinet table only if there is a sympathetic ear at that level, something that is clearly absent during this 26th Dáil and was absent during the 25th Dáil. We would like to see bi-annual meetings take place between the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Trade, Agriculture and Finance at which the Minister of State with responsibility for development assistance could present priority issues and ensure greater co-operation and consultation in the relevant policy areas.

At Dáil level, Fine Gael have consistently called for the re-establishment of a committee on foreign affairs and development co-operation. That this is urgently needed is evident. In this House alone hardly a week passes without some issue, some debate, or some motion directly relating to foreign affairs and/or development aid being raised on the Order of Business. There are numerous motions on our Order Paper that would be directly relevant to an all-party committee on foreign affairs: the developments in Eastern Europe, the ongoing problems in the Third World, and GATT trade talks. We can list right across the spectrum areas that should be dealt with by such on all-party committee. Yet, for whatever reason, the Government continue to turn a deaf ear on an all-party plea for the re-establishment of a committee on foreign affairs and development co-operation.

Peace and political stability are prerequisites for development. The Government should increase political lobbying at European and international levels to promote the peaceful settlement of conflict. The institution of democratic systems of Government and the observation of full human rights are essential to the establishment of lasting peace. The Government should be active in pursuing these goals. We look for more evidence in these areas.

The interaction of development issues with the protection of our environment has become more and more evident. We propose that a series of measures to protect our world environment should become an integral element of our development policy.

To go back for a moment to the crisis in developing countries generally for approximately 900 million people the progress made in the 1970s in the area of food, security, literacy and health have been reversed. Average incomes throughout most of Africa and most of Latin America have fallen by 10 to 25 per cent in the 1980s. Spending on food, health and education has been severely reduced. If I may, I should like to quote from the 1989 UNICEF report on the state of the world's children:

The slowing down of progress and the reversal of hard won gains is, therefore, largely invisible to the industrialised world, yet it is spreading hardship and human misery on a scale and of a severity unprecedented in the post-war era.

It is against this background of unprecedented need that the cutbacks in ODA for the three years since 1987 must be viewed and judged. The Irish people have spoken, through their direct generosity, and have expressed a wish that the Irish Government do likewise. I add my humble voice to the appeal of the Irish people, that has been directly through their pocket in voluntary contributions, to the Minister for Finance with us this afternoon, and the Minister responsible for drawing up our ODA contribution since 1987 to ensure that we readdress the balance and the decline in our contribution since 1987.

The basis for a sound and effective ODA programme is a guaranteed and acceptable level of funding. The UN target of 0.7 per cent of GNP acts as a benchmark for levels of Government funding allocated to ODA programmes. Every year when Fine Gael were in Government we provided for a percentage increase in the development budget. I am very proud of my party's record on that point. We made progress towards the UN target. Since entering Government in 1987 Fianna Fáil has steadily decreased their statutory funding of ODA along with the cutbacks they have introduced in all other Government spending. The adverse effects of economic and budgetary restrictions on development assistance introduced by the Government are beginning to undermine the long term stability of many projects operating under ODA. Fianna Fáil policy in relation to ODA demonstrates a profound lack of understanding and awareness of the nature and role of ODA and, if I may say so, an ignorance of the reasons why it differs from other Government provided services. That point must be underlined.

To reduce funding of ODA sponsored projects does not simply cause a reduction in the level of services offered by that facility, be it a hospital, medical centre, water or power project. It can effectively cause that facility to close. That point seems to be lost on the Fianna Fáil Government. The removal of any such facility has serious knock-on effects such as population shifts, transportation difficulties, food shortages, health risks, risks to education and local industry and ultimately increased political unrest. This is the reality of life in the Third World where people live much closer to the edge and the smallest economic reversal can wipe out whatever precarious progress has been achieved. Developing countries are not just passive recipients of whatever we in this country deem affordable this time round. We work in partnership with them to solve the international problem of economic and political imbalance between the northern and southern hemispheres.

Fine Gael believe that Government spending on ODA requires the adoption of a completely different scale of needs from that which applies to other areas of Government expenditure. I urge the Minister for Finance, who has proven his personal commitment by coming here this afternoon, to take that point and that principle on board. For this reason and because those who plan and administer projects under our official programme must be in a position to guarantee the long term viability of their undertaking, I must insist that there must be an accepted obligation on the Government to undertake a fixed yearly increase in ODA allocation until we reach and maintain the UN target of 0.7 per cent of GNP. It is clear also that all the Opposition parties in the Seanad and Dáil support this policy.

Many non-governmental organisations working in the development area depend on financial assistance from Government to carry out their work programme. Fluctuations in the level of funding made available to these groups have a seriously detrimental effect on their work. Fine Gael believe it is essential that independent organisations do not suffer the consequences of low Government priority for ODA. Government assistance to projects carried out by NGOs must be provided on a fixed and predetermined basis which allows for planned management of existing and new projects.

The scale of the task facing those involved in development work is such that need will inevitably outweigh existing resources. A general review of the financing of the official Irish development programme must be carried out in order to pinpoint where the difficulties arise and to identify the structural alterations necessary to resolve conflicting priorities in spending policy.

Even though the Irish ODA programme has been developed in the Department of Foreign Affairs, it is clearly not regarded as mainstream foreign affairs activity. In reality, it requires economic, sociological and project assessment skills. It is, or should be, a highly specialised area. The Department of Foreign Affairs is characterised by mobility of staff. I am sure they would not disagree with me on that, but this mobility, in itself, is damaging for consistency and expertise in the development field. Models from other countries offer possible ways of improving the situation. Two clear options seem to exist. One is the establishment of an independent agency to administer our aid programme appointed by and answerable to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The second, is the strengthening of the section within Foreign Affairs by, for example, the appointment of an official of ambassadorial rank to take charge of our development assistance programme.

Fine Gael propose that a working party, representative of both Government and voluntary agencies, be set up to seek views and make recommendations to the Government on administration of ODA. Changes are also needed at Government level. Development co-operation reaches deeply into the area of trade, commerce and finance. Ireland is part of the economically dominant western bloc and, as participants in this bloc, we share responsibility for the serious imbalances between the northern and southern hemispheres, between developed and developing nations. Most developing countries concentrate their trading activities on one or two primary products and on raw materials. Up to 80 per cent of the total exports of the least developed countries consist of either primary products or raw materials. These are low in export value, subject to serious price fluctuations and, in the case of raw materials, a steady depletion of nonrenewable natural resources.

As the value of the Third World export falls, so the relative cost of their imports rise. The difference must be made up by borrowing from international banks. In this way attempts at increasing economic activity in most developing countries have succeeded only in increasing their level of dependence on the developed world which is what we refer to as the increasing debt crisis. Unless we, in Ireland, recognise and address this issue we will continue to be part of the problem rather than contributing to the solution of global, economic imbalance.

A sustained official programme which attempts to source products and supplies in developing countries will not automatically bring job losses or lower economic prosperity to this country. Third World markets can sustain growth only if they can export goods at fair and stable prices. Only through sustained economic growth can these countries reduce their level of dependence on the developed world.

Fine Gael believe that a proper process of consultation will provide a more informed and effective basis for our participation, indeed, even in the GATT talks and the Lomé Convention negotiations, and promote better co-operation between those countries committed to genuine progress in Third World economic development. As the brief is usually handled by a junior Minister it should reach the Cabinet table only when there is a sympathetic air at that level. Fine Gael propose that bi-annual meetings take place between the Ministers for Foreign Affairs, Trade, Agriculture and Finance at which the junior Minister for Development Assistance could present the priority issues and ensure greater co-operation and consultation in the relevant policy areas. Closer consultation and co-operation between the relevant Government Ministers and Departments would contribute to more effective and progressive Cabinet management of development responsibilities.

In Ireland, as in the developed world generally, Government response to the rapid shift swings of both practical and political requirements in the developing world is not sufficiently swift or sensitive to events. We would all agree with that. It is, therefore, of the utmost urgency — I underline this point as sincerely as I possibly can to the Minister — that an all-party committee be established to monitor events and activities in the area of official development assistance. It could be part of our foreign affairs committee, it could be a specific committee on its own but there are all-party requests and all-party agreement that we need this facility to do justice to the monies we have available to spend on developing countries and to be sure that our policy and our rate of response to the needs of developing countries is sufficient.

Information and expertise must be immediately available to facilitate the speedy decision making with regard to development aid and assistance and to ensure that a shared understanding of our responsibility and undertakings exists among all the parties in Dáil Éireann. The Minister's concern for developed countries or for crises and emergencies as they occur in different parts of the world is not the preserve of any one political party. I am quite sure all of us, in all the parties and, indeed, the Independents as well, have a similar view and would wish that we handle the matter similarly. That is why our call for an all-party committee on this issue is all the more relevant. Only in this way could we ensure that there are no unnecessary counterproductive shifts and reversals in official policies with the changes in Government. We all know that development issues impinge closely on political issues but while it is essential to maintain need as the main criterion for aid development co-operation necessarily involves confronting political issues and conflicts.

In parts of the world, such as Kampuchea, internal political situations are so complex and unstable that they constantly challenge our ability to deliver vital aid to the target groups. Similar difficulties have been experienced in Sudan and Ethiopia in recent times. Despite such difficulties it is never an acceptable option to withdraw aid on grounds of political or military interference. The concept of tied aid depend upon securing certain conditions is fraught with political dangers and must be rejected. Where genuine need exists all possible efforts must be made to ensure that human needs are met even with the risks that inevitably arise.

Fine Gael are committed to securing political rather than military solutions to international conflicts. The impetus for strengthened European foreign policy in the Europe of post-1992 provides an excellent platform to pursue strong European efforts to resolve conflict in countries where the efforts of development workers are continuously frustrated at local level. The commitment of our development workers must be matched by the political commitment at national and international level.

Environment protection is an area of increasing international concern. It clearly demonstrates the reality of what we often talk about: many people's one world thesis. Environment destruction is not only a disease of the industrialised world. The poorest countries of the developing world are often the chief victims of industrial pollution and environmental damage caused by policies and activities pursued in the developed world. There is weighty and growing evidence that serious climatic variations which have had disastrous effects on the health, safety and livelihood of people in the Third World can often be traced to large scale industrial and agricultural practices carried out by, or at the behest of, the industrialised world.

Chief among the features which Fine Gael believe must be incorporated in an official development policy from this country are allocation of financial resources through bilaterial and multilateral mechanisms to assist developing countries to meet more stringent environmental protection standards, improved measures to improve environmental conditions in developing countries, active political and legal pressure on companies in both the developed and developing world to operate within safe and acceptable safety and environmental standards ensuring that the financial responsibility for immediate action is enforceable against any offending company, active assistance at both national and international level for agricultural policies which promote improvements in food production and the reduced use of toxic chemicals, effective legislation to prevent the dumping of toxic products or in banned practices in developing countries. A sensitive development policy which takes proper account of global and environmental concerns must promote projects and schemes which pursue energy saving and safe waste recycling.

I will conclude on this most important of issues. I do not apologise for putting on the record Fine Gael policy in this area because we have a well developed, well thought out policy on this whole area. It is the first time it has been committed to the record of Seanad Éireann. I am very proud of the work that has been done by my party in Government, dating back to 1973, when Deputy Garrett FitzGerald was Minister for Foreign Affairs.

There are many points that we can make. Indeed, many of them would be repetition of what I said in February. Interestingly, even though I have contributed at length this afternoon, none of this was put on the record in February. I will not repeat what has already gone on the Seanad record in February of this year. I will just refer to it because it expresses in detail my strong views on this whole area and, indeed, the treatment of ODA by the Minister since the 1987 budget to date.

We need to reinvigorate our commitment to the UN target for ODA. We have stated that several times. Indeed, I believe every speaker from both sides of the House who will stand here this afternoon supporting the IDA Bill before us will have to make that point because I am afraid, as a recipient country of help and support from our European colleagues, we, above all countries, know what it is to give support to countries that are worse off than we are. We are a very small nation both politically and on the whole overall international scale. We have always had a proud record in helping less developed countries, a record that has been indirectly proportionate to the size of our country, both in regard to the unofficial aid given through the many voluntary aid organisations in our country and, indeed, until 1987 the official record aid in this country. I plead with the Minister to reverse what has been happening since 1987. In supporting the Bill and in noting the Minister's contribution here this afternoon, I ask him to go one step further and ensure that the figure he comes up with in the Book of Estimates, and in the budget that we are now approaching, will reflect the wishes of both this House and of the people.

Forgive me for smiling but is it not typical when we are discussing IDA, international development aid, that most of Senator Doyle's comments should relate to overseas development aid? I was amused as well to see the Senator expand on Fine Gael policy relative to overseas development aid. It prompted me to ask the question, if the Senator is sure at this stage that, with the demise of Deputy Alan Dukes this in fact is still Fine Gael policy under Deputy John Bruton, because the Senator knows the adage of the shifting sands.

Let the Senator be in no doubt at all.

Quite rightly, the Senator said that any increase in international development aid must be welcomed. While the Opposition will always claim that that is not enough I suppose that is the prerogative of an Opposition. In any event, an increase of £3 million is significant in the overall and is a clear indication that as the economy develops and progresses the Government are willing to meet their commitment. We have also had tremendous training here never to look a gift horse in the mouth and I am glad the Opposition are not looking that gift horse in the mouth today.

It is part of our ODA programme.

It also puts into perspective the fact that we have had to review all areas of expenditure since 1987, when Fianna Fáil came into Government and given the economic mess they inherited at that time. Whatever cutbacks were made in the interim period can be put into perspective taking into account the overall cutbacks that have to take place because of the economic circumstances we inherited.

I, too, welcome the fact IDA are continuing their poverty-orientated policy. While up to 1977-78 the thrust was on major infrastructural projects, since then the shift on emphasis has been to more primary-type developments such as education, health, agricultural projects and so on and that is welcome. IDA's success in bringing about participation of countries receiving aid, in getting them to adapt projects as if these projects were their own is also welcome. The emphasis on strengthening assistance to countries pursuing economic policy reform, coupled with placing more emphasis on critical environmental issues is logical, farsighted and, like Senator Doyle, I welcome it. I am sure all Senators will agree there has been a degree of environmental exploitation in the Third World by multinationals who, in siting particularly sensitive plants, tended to move some of their questionable operations to the Third World. Therefore, the importance of tying in an environmental dimension to any development with rigorous standards is obviously of paramount importance.

We have seen evidence of the integration of Eastern Europe and that begs the question why the same urgency could not apply to the Third World. I would like to place my concern in that regard on the record of the House. I would suggest that at a time when within the EC we are discussing monetary and political union the heads of Government should look compassionately on the Third World. We have seen on our TV screens the harsh realities of poverty in the Third World and the personnel in the media are to be congratulated for bringing such deprivation to our attention. I ask the Government through the mechanism of the International Development Association and the World Bank to put pressure on the richer member nations to make finance available, interest free, for at least a 20-year period to Third World projects.

Our peripherality has been mentioned and the fact that Structural Funds are being made available to us. It is important that we ask heads of Government within the EC and indeed richer nations, to concentrate on alleviating poverty and giving priority to projects that will take Third World countries out of the dark ages, particularly now that we have reached a level of agreement on disarmament. They must also take into account the finances that may become available to richer nations as a result.

I wish to congratulate our voluntary organisations and the work being done by people like Comhlámh, GOAL and many others. In 1988 we had 650 Irish personnel working officially on projects associated with APSO and DFA. The purchase of Irish goods and services by these groups amounted to £6.5 million. As a country we have gained to the tune of £25 million from EC-funded projects and £8 million from World Bank projects and the importance of these projects to our economy should not be lost on any of us. Also, as a result of the voluntary bodies contributions we should remember there are indirect benefits to us as a country. There are major benefits to the personnel who work on these projects and they acquire vast experience that is valuable to them on their return to their country. We should also stress the importance of the valuable and friendly relationships we have set up with what will be in the future emerging economies and also be mindful of the tremendous goodwill that will accrue to Ireland as a missionary nation.

Senator Doyle concentrated in her speech on the ODA. I am sure we will all accept that no matter what Government action is taken here it will not be sufficient to deal with the problems in underdeveloped economies. Quite rightly, Senator Doyle mentioned the fact that the presence of the Minister for Finance is testimony to the fact that he and the Minister of State are aware of the difficulties relating to Third World aid. While the ideal mentioned of 0.7 per cent of GNP per capita for overseas development aid has never been achieved, the aspiration is one we should keep in mind and strive to achieve. Ireland, conscious of the famine we have been through and the poverty that has stricken our people through the ages, must be prepared to meet that target. Given the fact that the Minister for Finance has been present with us, I have no difficulty in appealing to the great generosity that has been shown in times of cutback. When framing the 1991 budget and when the Estimates are being prepared, we should significantly increase our planned contribution to the ODA. I exhort the Minister to do that and I have the fullest confidence that he will take it on board.

I am opposing this Bill for a number of reasons which I want to put on the record of the House. I do not oppose it lightly as I am aware my position could easily be misunderstood. I am opposing it because I am increasingly sceptical about multilateral overseas development aid. I am increasingly convinced that the only route to proper development aid is through bilateral aid in which peoples and governments of countries that do not have international political axes to grind can make contact with peoples in other countries who are poor and who very often know better than anybody else what they want and need for their own assistance.

The many aspects of the international aid industry are nothing short of a scandal. I am sure the House does not have the inclination to listen to me go through all this at length, but I should mention a few specific matters. I will start with one agency which is not a World Bank agency but which is a typical example of what is going on, the Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations. At the Food and Agriculture Organisation in Rome there are 750 individuals whose pensionable remuneration ranges from $70,000 to $120,000 a year — 750 people being paid that much money. These include 11 assistant directors-general, 31 senior directors, 125 directors, 362 senior officers and 221 first officers. Many UN officials earn more than any US public official except the President. One person, the rector of what is called the United Nations University, earns three times as much as the Prime Minister of Norway. I do not begrudge people reasonable remuneration, but remuneration that becomes multiples of the remuneration of the political leaders of western countries is closer to being a scam and a ripoff than the salary of an employee in a properly organised agency for international development.

Similarly — and I will develop this at some length — I want to speak a little about the World Bank. It disburses roughly — and I mean roughly — $20 billion a year. The first mistake is that everybody thinks that just because the World Bank are giving out more money, it means they are doing more good. That is as pointless as trying to fill a bath with the stopper out, one simply puts in more and more water and more and more runs out the hole. The position ought to be a realistic assessment of what the agency are achieving. Let us remind ourselves again of the figure, it is $20 billion a year, roughly twice the total Government expenditure of this country. It is a lot of money and it does a lot of things, but it does not help poor countries to develop. The World Bank have essentially four elements, the International Development Association, the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the International Finance Corporation which deal in funding private bodies and a special fund for sub-Saharan Africa. As the Minister said, the IDA are essentially responsible for soft loans, low interest, long term and generous. The International Bank for Reconstruction and Development deal in the commercial sector and are regarded by the international banking business as an eminently secure place to which to lend money. That is because they can be relied upon to insist — whatever the cost — that what they loan to developing countries is paid back with full, usurious interest, in which case it becomes an eminently healthy way to lend money which it is claimed is going to development. The banks cannot be accused, of course, of crucifying the poor because the IBRD do that for them.

The total funding results in about 80 per cent of World Bank expenditure going through the IBRD and about 20 per cent through the International Development Association. Those agencies operate with the same staff; they are just different wings of the same organisation. I am not sure if the World Bank exists in any incarnation other than in their four wings. There are certain echoes of doctrinal complexity there which we need not go into. It is also interesting that the World Bank are based in Washington, which is not exactly the capital of the world, but it is the capital of a particularly powerful financial player in the world, declining but powerful. The World Bank's headquarters are just across the road — I am sure by coincidence — from the headquarters of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank and the IMF operate hand-in-hand. If one cannot get loan approval from the World Bank one will not get a loan from the IMF and vice versa. Coincidentally, they operate similar projects.

The Minister said that the IDA in recent years have increasingly provided financial aid to enable member countries to introduce and implement urgent, economic policy reforms and structural adjustments. The first thing to be said about economic policy reforms is that there is no single route. Some economists here have tried to persuade us of that in recent years, but there is no single route. It would have been worthwhile to hear what these fundamental, urgent economic reforms are. I propose to tell the House some of them. Even more intriguing is the other phrase, "structural adjustments". I will be quoting extensively from a book called Lords of Poverty by Graham Handcock which I commend to anybody who wants to get a healthy, authoritative and sceptical view of multilateral aid in particular. I had the good fortune to be asked to review the book — although I do not claim any particular wisdom — for a television programme and I had the good fortune to read it. It is a most horrifying, hair-raising book.

I would like to start by talking about structural adjustments. The book states that the characteristic feature of such loans is that they are completely disconnected from projects and are disbursed, usually very quickly, in return for major economic policy changes at the national level. Such changes are said to be the result of policy dialogue. It continues:

For example, the Bank [the World Bank] recently put up an $80 million SAL in support of an "economic recovery programme" in Costa Rica. The stated aim of this programme is to promote faster growth, especially through the expansion of exports in markets outside Central America.

The policy changes sought covered such matters as tariffs, which are to be lowered, and other forms of protection which are also to be reduced; exchange rate management, including devaluation; the government's budgetary policies and the scale of public sector involvement in the economy. In common with other structural adjustment loans, the money is not disbursed against specific purchases but can be used for a wide variety of purposes, including importing goods from abroad — which is what was done in Chile — paying off foreign debts, which is a nice easy way of getting the government out of their difficulties and, in many developing countries, lining the pockets of Ministers in the government.

There are good reasons for elaborating further on this. The same book gives a series of examples of structural adjustment loans:

During 1977-85 Peru allowed its development to be guided largely by the IMF and undertook two major structural adjustment programmes. In this period the average per capita income of Peruvians fell by 20 per cent; inflation soared from 30 per cent to 160 per cent; unemployment and underemployment both increased dramatically; and wages in the formal sector of the economy dropped like stones: at the end of 1985 a worker's pay packet was worth only 64 per cent of what it had been in 1979....

In 1984 the Government of the Philippines, then — and in 1985 as well — still led by ... Marcos, reached an agreement with the IMF. In exchange for the Fund's balance of payments, support, the Government undertook to institute sweeping reforms in the areas of tariffs, public investment and energy, to restrict government social expenditure, to increase taxes and to impose controls on credit creation. As a result, within just one year, GNP per capita had regressed a full decade [in 12 months] to its 1975 level.

These are supposed to be economic reforms that aid development. Structural adjustment in Sri Lanka has meant that the poorest 30 per cent of the population has suffered uninterrupted decline in their calorie consumption during the eighties while the top 50 per cent have improved their intake. The book goes on:

In Chile, adjustment policies have caused massive increases in unemployed and also an oddly skewed inflation that seems to have hit goods purchased by the poor much harder than goods purchased by the rich.

In Jamaica, an agreement signed with the IMF in 1984 led to the removal of government subsidies that had previously kept food costs down for poor and vulnerable groups...

In Brazil structural adjustment... led to greatly reduced social spending by the government during the 1980s.

Every year from 1980 to 1985 there were 47 countries in the Third World pursuing IMF sponsored structural adjustment programmes.

The IMF and the World Bank operate in tandem, they operate similar policies with similar values and similar objectives.

All of those policies were devoted, and they had a superficial objectivity or object, to restore balance to the public finances. The sinister part of this is exemplified by, say, Pakistan. In Pakistan 34.8 per cent of the national budget is spent on the military and 1 per cent on health care. Nevertheless, the World Bank insisted that the structural adjustments should apply to social expenditure, not to defence expenditure. There is no evidence that structural adjustment lending or structural adjustment funds in any way bear heavily on military or security expenditure in any of those countries. Certain areas of public policy are selectively picked out and targeted for these loans but these loans are not used properly, they are used for whatever the government wishes to use them. The World Bank state:

Indeed the Bank defines the main function of external aid as helping to ensure that governments' sustain reforms aganist the opposition of those who are adversely affected!

Is that not a fine objective for overseas development aid, to make sure that the government stand up to those who suffer from the policies the providers of overseas development aid impose on the people? It is my increasing contention that the World Bank are an undeserving source of overseas development fund and that there are better ways of using the money, ways that are far more effective in helping those they are meant to help. The World Bank appears to be a cold, heartless, inhumane organisation to whom the poor are merely cogs in the wheel of a large superstructure. I will quote the sort of gobbledegook they generate and which is a fine example of how dehumanised they are.

Projects aiming at alleviating malnutrition, for example, are not seen by the Bank as being intrinsically worthwhile; they are justified because: "A reduction in mortality generates a value to society equivalent to the discounted value of the future production of each individual saved".

Who would put the future of the poor of the world in the hands of an organisation that can even dehumanise the most human thing of all, keeping people alive and keeping people fed? Who could possibly take them seriously?

There is much more to be said about that agency and there are hundreds of examples. I will give one example about a project in Indonesia called the transmigration programme: This was a programme in which they have spent in the order of $1.3 billion. Some 20 per cent of all its lending to Indonesian agriculture went in the same direction. It is based on transferring peasant farmers from overcrowded Java to the more thinly populated outlying islands of Indonesia. Six million people have been moved by this international agency's project from where they lived to other islands. The consequence is that land rights enjoyed by tribal people have been subordinated to transmigration. The rights of traditonal law communities may not be allowed to stand in the way of the establishment of transmigration sites. Conflicts have arisen between the natives of some of these less populated islands and the security forces. The Indonesian government continue to implement a policy of sedentarising and assimilating into the mainstream all of Indonesia's tribal peoples with the approval of the World Bank.

The scale of this assault on the dignity and the rights of ordinary people carried out by an international agency which is as imperial in its attitudes, values and in its way of dealing with ordinary people as any 19th century colonial power, defies description. It would be valid, perhaps, to say that I am operating selectively because the World Bank spend a lot of money and do have many projects. For a long time they were not good at evaluating themselves but they set up an operations evaluation department which produced reports from about 1986 on. The conclusions of their own operations evaluation department, not mine, not the author of the book, their own operation evaluations department, were as follows: "...in 1986 the Bank's own Operations Evaluation Department was cautioning that ‘the drive to reach lending targets' is ‘potentially damaging....'.

I want to quote, and this is the first really extensive quote from this book, from page 144:

A recent extensive internal audit done by the OED described... what happened in Haiti.... the auditors found that, although relatively good work had been done at an early stage; the initial design.... was completely changed by the appraisal mission — the project area was extended seven-fold.... with costs increasing from $26 million to $111 million and later to $138.5 million.

Having spent $138.5 million on it, this expensive project closed three years behind schedule with barely half of its original components implemented and was judged by the auditors of the World Bank to have been a complete failure, a failure attributed almost entirely to the World Bank's pressure for quick action.

Again that might seem to be selective but a representative sample of 189 of their projects audited worldwide showed that no fewer than 106, that is 60 per cent, were found to have serious shortcomings or to be complete failures. In 75 per cent of all projects, for example, agricultural audited projects were found to have failed. Even a more extensive series of audits produced by the operations evaluation department in 1988 again found high paid failure rates and drew special attention to the increasingly serious issue of sustainability. Out of a total of 240 projects reviewed, 50 per cent were found to have unlikely marginal or uncertain sustainability. Half of the projects were unsustainable, unviable, unproductive. That was by their own internal audit, not by some external critic, but by their own attempts to evaluate their success.

For an organisation that is disbursing $20 billion a year a 50 per cent total failure rate is nothing short of disgraceful. We could use the money we are handing over to them to further their grandiose schemes by channelling it through our hopelessly inadequate bilateral aid programme. We are not doing any good by giving this money, quite the opposite; we are doing good for a large international organisation and doing nothing, or very little, for the poor. The money should not be given, it should be kept and distributed via an increased bilateral aid programme where we could do what we want to do.

The author quotes from another report which is not being distributed because its findings are so damning. He states that 27 agricultural projects were approved by the World Bank between 1961 and 1975, all of which were judged to be successful at the time of their completion. The report concludes that only nine of these 27 projects achieved any kind of long term sustainability, ten failed outright and eight had marginal or uncertain results. Commenting on this worrying lack of accountability the author has pointed to the generally too optimistic outlook on the part of staff presenting project loans. One could go on forever.

There are so many dimensions to this that are uncriticised because everybody thinks that the World Bank has given out loads of money to the poor. What fraction of this money goes to the poor? It is possible to argue — I have figures here which are not entirely sustainable — that half of the entire development aid expenditure of the world goes on paying western experts to help the world to develop. Of the $45 billion a year the world spends on overseas development aid, it is argued that as much as $22 billion of that goes on paying the salaries and the overhead costs of western experts, some of whom may well be very good. I am not sure, however, that it is being honest to the good people of this or any other country to pretend that when you put your hands in your pocket and the taxpayer gives money to pay to run a large international bureaucracy like the World Bank that you are giving money to the poor.

I am sceptical about this organisation and I do think that somebody should say stop. Let us have a complete dispassionate evaluation of its operations, a complete dispassionate evaluation of what it describes as orthodox economic policy which, even over a period of ten years, achieved nothing of significance for the poorest of the poor in an already poor country. It does not seem to have any capacity to evaluate itself and it seems to believe in spending more and more money without any evaluation. Nobody that I know of in small-scale poverty projects in this country would tolerate the idea of spending money on development projects without a comprehensive, rigorous independent evaluation of the project. Yet, it appears the World Bank goes on year after year spending loads of money on unevaluated and in many cases unsustainable projects.

There are many other things that should be addressed. One which is not directly related to the World Bank but which deserves to be addressed is the astonishing flight of capital out of many developing countries. I am grateful to the author of this book I have been quoting from for that. A study by Morgan Guaranty who, to my knowledge, are reasonably cautious and conservative and would not be waving the red flag in any of the company I might be associating with, looked at ten heavily indebted developing countries in Latin America between 1983 and 1985. During this period, as the domestic living standards of the poor plummeted, monied people in the countries concerned managed to deposit $44.2 billion in western banks. Another long term survey covering the ten-year period 1976-1986 came up with the following aggregate figures for capital flight: Argentina, $26 billion; Brazil, $10 billion; India, $10 billion; Indonesia, $5 billion; South Korea, $12 billion; Malaysia, $12 billion; Nigeria, $10 billion; Philippines, $9 billion; Mexico's "flight capitalists", as this man calls them, drained off a breathtaking $56 billion during the same decade.

Those sums of money flying out of the country in the pockets, metaphorically speaking or otherwise, of individuals who are already rich in countries where most of the people are poor in many cases are larger than the total sums of overseas development aid coming into those countries from all sources. Consequently, what is at the core of my objection, and the reason I have chosen to object to this Bill is because somebody must object, and somebody must say that what is needed in many of these countries are governments that are listening to their own people, governments that are controlled by their own people and governments that are accountable to their own people.

The most effective structural adjustment the International Development Association or the World Bank or the IMF could look for in a developing country would be democracy. In other words, to have governments that were accountable to, elected by, and therefore in a way having to be sensitive to the needs and feelings and to the views of their own people. The one apparent structural adjustment that is never sought is a political adjustment. We will have an economic shopping basket which varies not a penny from country to country. Every country in the world where the IDA, the World Bank and the IMF get involved with structural adjustment is given the same prescription: You can spend as much as you like on arms; you can have whatever corrupt political system you like; but you do not ever have to talk about political democracy. You do not have to talk about corruption. They insisted that the Government of Zaire should go through a structural adjustment policy which involved 7,000 teachers being fired but did not insist that the President of Zaire should get rid of some of his 20 or 30 top of the market Mercedes. He did not need any structural adjustment; and it is a coincidence that he happens to be one of the western powers' best allies in Africa? Perhaps I am being unfair.

I have gone on long enough, but there are another couple of issues which need to be addressed about this bank. This bank, which is allegedly a dispassionate and committed advocate of the poor of the world, cut off all funds from Nicaragua in 1980. The irony is that Nicaragua, without any aid from this allegedly benevolent organisation, achieved more for its people in the first five years of this decade before the war began than most developing countries have achieved in 40 years. They achieved it notwithstanding a boycott by this so-called benevolent agency, because this agency, like the IMF and all the world organisations, when the United States Government said "Stop", stopped sending money to Nicaragua. The President of Zaire could have his funds to keep his Mercedes going. Pakistan could have 35 per cent of its total government budget going on the military but Nicaragua could not be allowed any money from the World Bank and still managed to do better than any of those in developing the basic services for its own people.

I do not believe that an agency like that is a proper place to which to send our money. I do not believe that an agency like that is a place that will use our money to help the poorest of the world to develop, because that agency is incapable of listening to the opinions of small people. I do not want to go at length into that but there is overwhelming evidence of the fly in, fly out, half-a-day consultations at which they decide what is good for whole communities, and in some cases whole countries. There is overwhelming evidence of their continuing new fashion, which is usually about five years out of date, because it takes that length of time for their bureaucracy to shift itself around to discover it and in each case it is when vast damage has been done.

It is not a worthy organisation for our money. It is not an organisation which has done much good. It is an organisation which has done much harm. Our policy objective in this country ought to be to detach ourselves from such worthless organisations and to use the money through bilateral contacts where we know the money will be used with and for the poorest of the countries of the world.

It would also be useful when talking about development to address some of the more frightening and profound problems of development. The first is that the resources of the world are running out. On the present levels of knowledge and the present rate of discovery of additional resources, if India and China were to achieve the standard of consumption — I do not mean the standard of living because I do not like the word — of the United States of America, the world would only have enough uranium, enough copper, enough aluminium, enough oil and enough gas to last between three and four years. That is the extent to which the resources of the world are finite.

What are we talking about then when we push country after country down our direction of wasteful consumption, our level of dissipation of the world resources and our level of waste creation and, in particular, of greenhouse gas waste? If India and China were to get to the stage of being able to give their people the food levels we take for granted in the western world, that would result in a five fold increase in the discharge of carbon dioxide into the world atmosphere, unless those of us who have far too much are prepared to slow down.

That is why I get very nervous about things that are going on at the margins of Irish politics at present. I was impressed by Senator Doyle's eloquence on the issue of the obscenity of armaments expenditure and on the obscenity of using violence to solve political problems. I would be interested to know how she can reconcile that with the increasing demands of her party that we should join a military alliance and how she can reconcile the two objectives at the one time. If armaments and militarism and war are wrong, then the best place for us is out of it. If armaments and militarism are right, then you cannot give lectures, because it is the classic one: everybody's war except my war is wrong.

War is wrong. It is not a solution to anybody's problems. It is not a solution to the problems of this country nor to the problems of the EC. When I hear the Italian Presidency of the EC talking about the need to have an EC army that can operate in trouble spots anywhere around the world where EC interests are threatened and when I know that the world may only have ten, 20 years or perhaps fewer of resources left, I have a strong suspicion of the interests we are talking about. We are talking about who has their hands on the resources of the world and who will use whatever means are necessary to keep their hands on the resources of the world. That is a fair paraphrase of what is happening close to home.

I do not believe that a large multilateral body with an enormous bureaucracy, with a hidden political agenda, with a dubious economic policy and an appalling record of performance, is a worthy place for the money of Irish taxpayers to be used for ostensible overseas development. That money should not go there. It should go to Irish bilateral aid programmes. I am opposed to the Bill.

First of all, I would like to agree with many of the things Senator Ryan has said. Even from the internal reports of the World Bank itself it is obvious that much of the money that has been spent has been spent badly and has been mismanaged. It would be very nice if we had to deal only with democratic systems around the world and if every country had the same system as ourselves. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and in the foreseeable future I cannot see it being the case. All over the world there is a history of military regimes of one kind or another; they are not very pleasant, but that seems to be the way they go. It would not be right for the World Bank to start saying, "We will not give you money because you do not have the sort of political system we want you to have". The World Bank would then be accused of involving itself in the internal politics of a country. Meanwhile, a lot of people would starve while we are trying to sort out a democratic system for them.

They do anyway.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Farrell)

We cannot have across the floor interruptions.

I agree with many of the things Senator Brendan Ryan said. There is no doubt that a lot of the funds have been badly spent. I recall when I was in college there was a student from the Sudan there. I used to ask him about aid.

One of the worst examples he gave me was that they were told that they could get money from a certain country if they bought ambulances from that country. They had to buy 40 ambulances. They had no hospitals and no roads. He told me that on his way from work he used to watch the ambulances explode in the heat because nobody opened the windows. Forty ambulances worth many millions of pounds just went down the tubes because those people were forced to spend money in a completely irrelevant way which did not suit the country at all.

I am pleased to be able to make some general comments on this Bill. We are contributing £12.74 million to the International Development Association. The International Development Association plays a very important role for the poorest countries of the world. It is seen as the soft loan arm of the World Bank. It was established in the 1960s to provide assistance to the world's poorest developing countries. The IDA not alone lends money, it also provides advice and acts as a catalyst to stimulate investment by others. The IDA lends almost exclusively to the poorest countries of the world, such as those in Sub-Saharan Africa and the low income countries of Asia, which usually have a rate per capita of GNP below $700. In these countries it does vital work in agriculture, rural development, transport and telecommunications.

As a nation we have been very vocal within the framework of the International Development Association. It is obvious from the figures we are contributing, that we are giving more than stronger economies. What we are talking about today is a three-year programme. I am happy that Ireland has given, in effect, 0.12 of GNP. If one ties in the voluntary contribution, which I understand to have been 2,000,000 SDRs, and considering our own economic position, I believe we have made a very good contribution towards the IDA and, hopefully, as our financial position improves over the years we will be able to increase that amount.

The elimination of poverty has always been central to the IDA's mandate and I am happy to see that there is even a stronger emphasis now on poverty reduction in the IDA's future programmes. I believe that, as one of the contributors to the IDA it is our duty to make sure and to insist that every assistance is given to countries where people are suffering acute poverty. One of the easiest and most effective ways of doing that is to ensure the maximum involvement by governments themselves in the implementation of programmes and to make sure that they themselves have a commitment to it. It is impossible for any agency to implement a programme successfully without the help of the government of that country. We would all welcome the stress being placed by the IDA on the need for governments to own their adjustment programmes and also to tackle the serious underlying economic problems of many of these countries.

The voluntary organisations obviously have a vital role to play in how this money is spent. Many of these organisations are on the ground in these poor countries and it is most important that they are listened to and that the ideas they know will be effective are taken into consideration. I am happy to see that in recent years the relationship between these organisations has been strengthened.

Everybody is aware of the drastic changes which have taken place in many of these countries on the environmental front. The problem facing many of the poorer countries over the last decades has been that they have had to destroy some of their most important forest and natural environments to try to get hard currency to keep their countries going. This has brought huge environmental problems, not alone for themselves but for the western world. People are now realising that care for the environment is vital, both for our own sake and because it is vital to sustain economic progress in the future. I am happy to see the IDA has built an environmental consciousness into all its activities. It has new environmental assessment procedures which ensure a rigorous technical review of all stages of a project. I am also happy to see that the IDA intends to complete an environmental action plan for all of the borrowers during the IDA 9 period. It will give priority to those countries where major problems have been identified.

There has been a debate in the recent past on our overseas development aid. I believe we all recognise the constraints that have been put on us in endeavouring to improve our contribution. There have been many people pressing upon us to increase our ODA. I believe that our ODA should be increased over the next few years. Unfortunately, the Government's hands have been tied because they have had to tackle serious financial problems. We have a huge national debt to pay. The figures over a number of years show that ODA has dropped, and we all regret this. I would like to urge the Government to consider increasing our ODA contribution over the next few years. We all appreciate the difficult situation we are in, but I believe there is great support among the general public for us to give money to these Third World countries.

Our record in the IDA is one we can be proud of. We have always spoken with a clear voice at all levels to urge stronger economies to contribute even more to the Third World. It is to our credit that we have ensured that our contribution is even more than it was three years ago. The resources provided in IDA 9 will enable the IDA to be an effective partner in the efforts of its members to reduce proverty and achieve a high rate of sustainable growth. Ireland has always had a strong tradition in helping, not alone through the IDA, but through the ODA and a long tradition of Irish voluntary agencies in the Third World. I welcome the Bill before us and give it my full support.

I, too, welcome the general purpose of this Bill despite the fact that I see a good deal of merit in many of the sentiments which were expressed by my colleague, Senator Brendan Ryan. In many ways this country does not have a great deal of choice in going ahead and making this contribution. We are tied in to making this contribution because of obligations under international treaties and so on and to renege on those would be very difficult.

Beyond question, the problems of the Third World are enormous. The debt transfer out of the Third World is of the order of $144 billion at present. Forty thousand children die each day in the Third World from malnutrition and from diseases which are quite easily prevented. All this is taking place while the expenditure on arms continues to escalate. That is outrageous by any standards which are derived from morality or any standards which have a recognition of the basic requirements of human beings. Many of these sentiments were echoed by the Taoiseach when, on 3 May, he said:

We have a responsibility, both nationally and in our role as the Presidency of the European Community, to do what we can to promote an international order founded on the principles of peace and justice.

Those were fine sentiments from the Taoiseach. It is hard to credit that they could be said by a man who has presided over the Government who have seen fit to make a 35 per cent reduction in Third World aid since 1987. That reduction must be a cause of shame to every Irish person who has a spark of decency in their bodies. It is an outrageous scandal that the Government have seen fit to turn their back on the Third World, where 40,000 children die each day, or the equivalent of more than 10 per cent of the children in the greater Dublin area die each day. That is shocking. What has happened in relation to Third World aid is one of the meanest and most small-minded cuts which have taken place in all the cutbacks in this country. Furthermore, it has derived from a hard boiled analysis by the political hard chaws, the wise birds of the present Government who have come to the conclusion that votes will not be lost at election time because of reduction in Third World aid. That is the basic reason behind it. That is the reason which facilitates its happening. It is shocking, outrageous and disgraceful.

The record of this Government on Third World aid reduces statements from the Taoiseach when he talks about our tradition of being at the forefront of humanitarian endeavour. Those types of statements are reduced to a piece of black humour from the Taoiseach considering what has happened. In 1988 the cut in the aid Vote was 21 per cent compared to a cut in overall Government expenditure of 4 per cent. There has been no substantial restoration of aid levels since then despite much-heralded economic progress in the intervening period. The plain fact of the matter is that the record of Fianna Fáil in respect of foreign aid is lamentable. It was the Coalition Government during the seventies which established the aid programme. Since then every Fianna Fáil Government have seen fit to merely keep the aid programme ticking over until three years ago when they ran amok and savaged it.

In addition to the lack of producing aid, this Government have contributed precious little, if anything at all, by way of ideas or suggestions as to how the problems of the Third World might be addressed. There have been ample opportunities for those ideas and those suggestions to be put forward. I believe there is an overwhelming case now to immediately restore the aid levels to what they were in 1986 and to set ourselves the target of attaining the United Nations objective of 0.7 per cent of gross national product to go on aid by the year 2000. That is a modest and attainable target.

I believe, as I have indicated, that our international standing is seriously damaged both within the European Community and in the world at large. We are prepared to set ourselves definite standards in relation to what we expect by way of economic management and economic achievement in this country and, at the same time, we are prepared to turn our back and walk away from the standards which have been agreed, accepted and set by the world community in the United Nations.

The worst features of the cutbacks in aid relate to the bilateral programmes, to that part of the aid which is in effect optional. I believe there was a school of thought at large in the Civil Service, and particularly in the Department of Finance, who wanted to completely get rid of that expenditure. Fortunately, that did not happen, although one must acknowledge with great regret that considerable progress was made.

Our contribution to the African countries which we were aiding under the bilateral programme has been radically reduced. Our work in the Sudan has been greatly diminished if not totally obliterated. Our contribution to the United Nations Childrens Fund, UNICEF, which is an optional contribution, has been reduced from a relatively modest sum of £420,000 in 1986 to a miserable £123,000 in 1990. We are talking of making those contributions in the context of the requirements of children where, I repeat, 40,000 die each day of malnutrition and of diseases which are preventable. I do not know how we can look the world in the eye and how we can talk at the European Community in relation to the special needs of this country while we are prepared to turn our back on our fellow human beings in the way we have done over the past number of years. It is absolutely appalling and I believe it has been done to the grim hard analysis that no vote would be lost on it in this country.

In relation to the world food programme, again the same type of pattern has been followed. We were contributing £1.5 million in 1986. At this stage we are contributing precious little, if anything.

Some of the most appalling cutbacks have been made in relation to the aid that we make to some of our own Third World charities. Here I am talking about organisations such as GOAL, Trócaire and Concern. The contributions there have been reduced from something like £2 million in 1986 to £0.5 million in 1989. It is widely accepted that some of the best work in the Third World has been done by these agencies. They have made an outstanding contribution, and this is how we treat them. On top of that, quite a lot of the money which is given to these organisations simply makes its way back to the country in an indirect form in relation to services purchased from this country or to paying the salaries of our own people who work in those organisations in the Third World countries. That is not at all to take into consideration the value of Third World aid in terms of improving our credibility and our standing in the world community.

I have listened with interest to the people from the other side of the House, in particular Senator O'Keeffe and Senator Ryan, both of whom seem to be making quite eloquent cases for an increase in our contribution to development aid. I found it hard to see how they could make those types of contribution in the context of what has happened over the past three years. I hope they will be listened to. But there are rumours emanating from the castles of Merrion Street which indicate there will not be any substantial change in what will be given to aid in the Estimates to be published in the next few days. I hope I am wrong and I hope that those rumours are wrong, but I certainly think we can no longer look the rest of the world in the eye, given the way we are behaving in relation to our contribution to Third World development.

Talking about aid to Third World countries can be a problematic area of discussion because one has to go to Third World countries to see how aid is spread around. One has to decide as to whether aid should be given by voluntary bodies or whether aid should be delivered through international organisations. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind but that there has been no vehicle yet established that will give the proper type of aid to Third World countries. There are failures in voluntary bodies who have been involved there and, equally, there have been failures in the system where the World Bank or the International Development Association have been involved.

One of the problems about Third World countries is that if you go with a perspective which is governmental or organised you can see the problems associated with aid which goes from organised or governmental agencies, but if you go again you can see the way aid is distributed through bodies which are charitable or which have the best interests of the people at heart and can recognise that there is waste and that the money is not spent as it should be.

It is very easy to criticise the Irish Government for not spending enough money on aid to Third World countries. It is easy to criticise any country for not giving enough because there is global warfare in terms of what should be given to Third World countries and the benefit to Third World countries of what is given.

There is at present a "sos", if you like, between the East and the West. The Eastern European countries which were economically down and out have now decided that they will become democratic and are joining the western system of democracy-cum-the Western system of economic growth. They are reverting to what they were many years ago: individual countries with people developing themselves as individuals.

It seems to me that this will create problems for people in the Third World because a great deal of western aid — when I say western I include ourselves, the European Community, the United States — will now have to go to the countries of Eastern Europe. This may create difficulties for the Third World countries of Africa and the Far East.

Let us not forget that we are giving £12.740 million from the Irish Government — the Irish people — directly to the IDA. The International Development Association gives money to Third World countries without the problems associated with World Bank loans. In other words, the interest rates are not as high and in many cases there it no interest at all; they are straightforward, long term loans with repayment of capital over a long period and maybe never, depending on the country to which the money goes. We can be critical of what the Irish Government or any other Government do in terms of Third World aid. There can never be enough money going into Third World countries but we are doing a reasonable job. Perhaps what we should do is divorce ourselves from the IDA and give the £12.74 million as a direct grant or direct loan to certain countries and use it on a bilateral basis rather than putting it into the IDA. Perhaps some of the people who are so critical of what we do in the Third World might then realise how much we are putting in. We are putting an increasing amount into the Third World through the Europen Community and the IDA.

I was in Sierra Leone not so long ago. There are in Sierra Leone probably the greatest number of aid groups. Every aid group in the world is involved in Sierra Leone. I am talking about Sierra Leone because it is a country that I visit. Every jeep that passes belongs to some aid group. The Christian Aid Group, IDA, United Nations, UNWRA are all there. There is a huge amount of money going through from voluntary subscriptions or from government subscriptions and is being misused, due, in 90 per cent of cases, to incompetence and not to corruption. The incompetence in these countries is compounded by the number of aid agencies. There is no co-ordination of aid in some of these countries. Sierra Leone probably could have a bigger output of diamonds than has South Africa but the diamonds are all on the black market; they do not go through the normal channels. The incompetence is compounded by the number of aid agencies and a lack of co-ordination.

The International Development Association has had its critics in the past because it has been said that a great deal of money that has been poured into Third World countries through the IDA has come back to the donor countries because the projects undertaken require western influences and machinery. So a great deal of the money comes back by way of payment for machinery required for a project.

When I say that we might be better off to withdraw from the IDA and give the £12.74 million directly by bilateral aid, I mean that there might be a better chance of creating projects in small areas that would have long term benefits for the country to which the money is going. However, I have talked to Irish people who work in West Africa and there is no doubt in my mind that the IDA's contribution has been of benefit to those Third World countries. It may not be perfect. Nevertheless, it is seen to work better than much of the voluntary organisation work that has been done. A lot of the money that goes to voluntary organisations for use in Third World countries has been misused.

There is a situation where famine has developed in certain countries and there is criticism by various people of the fact that countries in which there is a famine are selling cash crops abroad at a time when we are sending food crops in. If the people in these Third World countries cannot grow grain to sell how can they live? If you send grain into a country which is poverty stricken at a time when they want cash to sell their own grain, they cannot exist; poverty increases. In the agricultural field we have to look at where we send physical aid. People in the Third World, like ourselves, need cash crops, they need cash to live. How can we criticise them if they export a certain amount of grain at a time when they are getting aid? The famers need cash; they cannot exist without it. If we keep pouring grain or crops into an area from outside they will live at the poverty level for the rest of their lives. No mattter how good the harvest is, it is no good to them because the very commodity they want to sell they cannot sell as it is being sent in from the mountains of food in Europe or wherever.

The Bill is a good Bill. We must emphasise the fact that the Irish people are giving £12,740,000 to the replenishment of the resources of the International Development Association.

There is no point in criticising the IDA. We can criticise the way the aid is used; we can criticise various elements within the IDA but the IDA has played a better role in the Third World than many organisations that can shout and roar about their voluntary efforts to help the poor in South Africa or in the Third World. We must pay a tribute to people in organisations such as GOAL, Gorta and so on who do a tremendous job, and, in particular, Gorta, who have been involved in small projects which have long term benefits. They have never got involved in short term charity. They have always used their money to develop projects which would be of long term benefit to the receiver country.

Organisations such as GOAL have done a tremendous amount of work to try to provide initially short term benefit in difficult situations but they have now got involved in long term organisation of farming and agricultural based works in the Third World. We must see that there is a balance. There is no point in suggesting that Gorta and GOAL are better than the IDA or anybody else. The Third World — and it is now becoming the southern world, because that is exactly what we are talking about — with properly established economic development, particularly in the area of water supply, in terms of the use of the resources, could be of enormous benefit to the world in general.

I would like to suggest that people should not be complaining that Ireland is not giving enough to the Third World. Ireland is doing an exceptional job in contributing assets to the Third World. Whether through voluntary bodies or governmental bodies, as a nation we are doing an enormously good job. The Bill represents a top-up to the amount of money that is provided. We are doing an exceptional job and I totally support the Bill.

First, I would like to compliment the Minister, as indeed did Senator Doyle, for coming here today to talk about this subject, for coming twice in fact, despite his heavy schedule in the Dáil and in the party rooms too, I understand. It is a most important subject and I liked much of what the Minister had to say. I am particularly taken by the following comment he made:

It must be stressed that adjustment programmes cannot be imposed on countries by outside agencies if they are to be successful. While IDA and other donors can provide useful advice and assistance, the Government itself must be fully responsible for the development of an adjustment programme and strongly committed to its implementation.

I am sorry Senator Brendan Ryan has left. Either he did not listen to the Minister's speech or read it, or through blind ideology, an anti-capitalism and anti-US stance, he does not want to see the situation. The fact of the matter is that neither the World Bank nor the Food and Agriculture Organisation can impose policies on these countries. If policies have failed — and they have failed — the blame cannot be laid entirely at the door of the World Bank, although it is not above criticism and neither is the Food and Agriculture Organisation, but to talk about the World Bank being responsible for the shifting of six million peasants from one island to another in Indonesia is absolute rubbish. The only countries I know of that shifted farmers against their will were the Communist countries: Stalin murdered millions of Kulaks, Ceausescu murdered many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of his own people and there is the example of Mengistu in Ethiopia and so on. Why does the Senator not mention them? It is a nonsense.

We must see the reality. The reality is as the President of the World Bank said in answer to a question I put to him in Washington, "We cannot impose restrictions in the way of giving grants. We cannot impose particular economic policies on particular Governments, on countries". In fact if they could, we might have fewer problems in Ethiopia, the Sudan, Mozambique, Angola and so on. That is the situation. Perhaps he is right and perhaps Senator Lanigan is right — that we might get the better use of the money if we did a bilateral agreement with these countries. That is debatable.

On a more general theme, may I put the picture as follows: the world population in the 1930s was roughly 2.5 billion. By 1990, it is 5.5 billion — doubling or a little more about every 40 years. At that rate of growth, we can expect the world population will be about 9 billion by the year 2020, about 18 billion in the next 60 years after that, the year 2080. That is an unsustainable rate of growth population. The real tragedy is that the real growth in population is not in the developed world where there are the resources to support more people. The real growth in population is in the poor areas, like Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, South-East Asia and, above all, in Africa. These are the countries that lack the resources and, in particular, the resource of technology. That is a problem that must be solved.

It would be naive of us, whatever our religious beliefs or otherwise, to believe the poverty and hunger the Third World is suffering can be solved in the absence of some effective means of population control. That is the stark reality. It is not mentioned in this country too often. It is not popular to mention it but we would be dishonest with ourselves and with Third World countries if we did not face up to that fact.

With regard to our contribution, Senator Upton said that we must hang our heads in shame among our Community partners. I do not agree. I accept our contribution from the Government is not adequate and it is falling from 0.11 per cent to 0.10 per cent. That is regrettable. But, on the other hand, we can proudly boast that on an individual level, whether it is Bob Geldof's fund-raising programmes or the NGOs like Gorta and GOAL, we are contributing more per capita than any country in the Community. That is a fact. The Government's miserliness in the money they are giving is not reflecting how the people think, if the Minister does not mind my saying so. That is another question.

The first thing these countries must do is develop their agriculture. That is where many of them are falling down. Many have decided on collectivisation but the one thing that most of these people lack is education. There is a very fine example in Zimbabwe which, incidentally, is under a nominal communist who is acting very like a capitalist. There, in the period between 1980 and 1990, two very simple techniques, very elementary and basic training for the peasants, increased food output by 1,400 per cent. Alas, however, their efforts are being negatived to some extent by an extraordinary growth in the population.

There is a simplistic view in many parts of the Community, not just in Ireland, that what we have to do is give them our food surpluses. I would like to remind Senators what President Kaunda of Zambia said to us in the European Parliament when he visited it two years ago and I quote: "Food aid simply fertilises famine". That is what the man said and he should know what he is talking about. Senator Lanigan referred to it in another way. The fact is that by dumping our surpluses into these countries we are undermining the local producers. Our efforts at helping them, whether through cash or kind, or voluntary helpers, must always be geared towards teaching them how to feed themselves rather than feeding them. In other words, the philosophy must be to give them a fishing rod rather than a fish. Give them a fish, they have one meal, give them a fishing rod they can feed themselves. That must be the philosophy.

The best help we can give these countries is the technology we have, the many people we have who are committed to helping. Perhaps some means could be found to organise some kind of an Irish peace corps. Today we have people retiring earlier than at any time in history, I suppose. These people are retiring while they still have a lot of energy and a lot of useful technology to offer to the developing countries. They are at a stage in life when most of their family commitments are behind them. Most of them would welcome a new challenge to contribute to the problems of the Third World. It must be done on an organised basis. This is where the Government could play a huge part by organising something like this, to get these people who have retired from the Civil Service, from Teagasc, from the universities and from various other organisations and, indeed, retired farmers — and we have some of those around — who have an enormous amount to contribute. That would be far more beneficial than giving cash to these countries who often do not know how to use the cash anyway. That is how I would like to see Ireland playing a greater role than it is presently playing.

Mention has also been made of the Third World debt and the flight of capital from the developing countries. I think it was Senator Ryan and Senator Upton who said a lot about the flight of capital from these countries. The fact is that capital will go where capital is most welcome, most secure and gets the greatest reward. That is a fact of life. If the capital is flying out of Mexico, India, Pakistan, Peru and Chile, as Senator Ryan said, it is not the fault of the World Bank, as he seemed to think, but the fault of bad policy, too much inflation, various other problems at home, insecure government, insecure political situations. That is why money is moving. It is not because of the Food and Agriculture Organisation or the World Bank. If their policies are right, if their economic policies are effective, capital will begin to flow into these countries rather than their own savings flowing out.

In regard to Third World debts it was pointed out, and it cannot be repeated often enough, that the IDA is giving loans at virtually nominal interest rates. The fact also remains that these countries have massive borrowings from the commercial banks. The level of expenditure in servicing these borrowings in most cases now exceeds the financial help they get from the developed world. I have no magic solution for that but a solution must be found because they are sinking deeper into this quagmire. They must be helped. I admit I do not know what the formula is. But, it is in the interest of the entire developed world, the western world, to ensure that a solution is found and found quickly.

There is one other ingredient that they must have for their success, that is, markets. What is the point in helping these countries to develop, giving them money to develop their production and then say, "You cannot sell in our market." That is a nonsense. It is a contradiction in terms. Access to our market could be worth a great deal more than the money we give to them. We feel good about giving them money. That is helping our conscience a bit, I suppose. But by helping them to produce and then saying "You cannot sell here", you are denying them the chance of developing. That is a matter that must be resolved.

I know that in the Lomé Convention, signed by Deputy FitzGerald when he was Foreign Minister in the seventies, and the second one signed by Deputy Peter Barry in the eighties, gave a ACP countries some access to markets in the Community, but we have to go further than that. Of course, access to our markets is something that some of our producers will not be too happy about. We cannot live in a world where we want to sell to everybody and refuse to buy from others. That is a reality of life. It is a bit selfish. In the longer term it is self-defeating because, eventually, if they do not develop there will be greater division in the world, greater inequality, more political instability and what we make up one way we will lose another way, spending on defence, armaments and so on. That would be a retrograde step.

I support the Bill. I have grave reservations about the fact that our commitment is reduced. I hope the Government in the next budget will see their way to get back on course for the target of 0.7 per cent. Hopefully they will.

I would like to support and welcome this Bill. It is a cause of great concern, and rightly a cause of great concern, that the gap between the developing countries and the developed countries is not narrowing. If anything, it is widening. There is a sad situation that starvation is still a feature in a large part of this world, not simply in sub-Saharan Africa but in many other areas as well and within a far greater region, where there is no absolute starvation, there is nonetheless poverty on a massive scale and very little sign or indication that this is diminishing. If anything, it is steadily increasing as the years go by.

Some of the points made in this debate illustrate the concerns. I support the International Development Association. It has done very good work. The various charitable organisations have done very good work. Having said that, it is evident that it is not enough. Some new start must be made in relation to the situation of the developing countries and the developed countries if we are to enable these countries to develop their economies, to deal with the food situation, to deal with poverty in their own countries. This is clearly something on which, on a humanitarian basis, an ethical basis, is necessary and desirable.

Perhaps also, as Senator Raftery suggested, it is also necessary on such basis of self-interest to avoid conflicts and other military or security catastrophies. There is no doubt about it that these countries continue to get poorer and poorer and yet, at the same time, have sufficient technology as some of the poorer countries now have and it is an extraordinary contrast in a sense that you have certain countries in the world which are very populous and very poor, with appalling poverty perhaps even starvation for a percentage of the population and yet, nonetheless, now have the necessary technology for nuclear weapons.

Many of the conflicts of old resulted from the movement of populations from the consequences of famine. Perhaps gradually over the next ten or 20 years we will move into a situation where some of the poorer countries may be very tempted to take extreme measures to improve their situation. We went through a stage of euphoria after the Cold War ended when we seemed to think it was peace in our time for evermore, but within a matter of weeks we were very rudely awakened from that illusion and now seem to be facing, unfortunately, the possibility of a dreadful, bloody war in the Middle East, which may lead to we know not where.

However, coming back to this Bill, there are a few other points I would like to make. First, we have to look at the situation of starvation. There is something totally appalling about a situation where a few weeks ago in this House we were discussing various measures relating to agriculture and how we could deal with the excessive production which we now have in this country and other countries. It is a real problem. We are talking about the CAP and so on and what on earth will we do with these mountains of butter, grain and every possible food commodity. We can walk out of this House, go home, switch on our television and see children starving, mass starvation in other countries. We may say what we like about it being necessary for the IDA, the countries themselves or the charitable organisations to ensure these people are enabled to grow food for themselves. Certainly, from a long term point of view, that is the ultimate answer but that is no consolation to somebody who will starve to death in the next few weeks.

One of the first steps that should be taken is that the United Nations should devote as much attention to the problems of starvation as they seem to devote to the petroleum situation. There are millions of people starving and dying. Children are dying as we sit here at this moment in this House but the United Nations are not really doing all that much about it. Equally, it should not be beyond the wit of man for a developed Community, such as the European Community, of which this country is a member, to look at the means to transfer food to those countries and areas that need it.

Secondly, there is the financial situation. We now have a vicious cycle of the countries that can least afford to pay their debts having the largest debts in the world and, as Senator Raftery rightly said, there is no immediate or easy solution to it. But there are certainly solutions. Again, it is not beyond the wit of the countries of the Community and the World Bank to bring in financial arrangements whereby some solution to these problems can be reached. There will have to be a solution because these countries just simply will not be able to pay these debts so we might as well face up to that fact and get on with making arrangements. The Food and Agriculture Organisation, as has been pointed out is not directly involved in this.

I was a bit distressed about the suggestion of birth control. Birth control is absolutely the right, in my opinion, of every individual. It is one's own private morality to follow as one wishes but for us in the developed countries to tell the developing countries that our answer to their problem is that they must impose birth control is not really something I find advisable or palatable. There is something extremely obnoxious about it. If they so wish so be it. It is not necessarily the answer either.

Birth control in itself, as far as I am aware, in any country suffering from the problems of starvation has never dealt with that problem. Indeed, where there is starvation, where many children are dying, it is part of the economic and social basis of life that they try to have large families in order to compensate for the other children who have died. I find that a difficult argument from an economic or agricultural point of view. Although the population of the world is increasing very rapidly, as we have seen in Western Europe there is an enormous possibility still for increasing food production. We do a lot in this country, and I am sure we could do much more.

I certainly welcome this Bill and suggest that, perhaps, the role we should play in this, a very beneficial and worthwhile one, is to initiate some of the types of discussions and policies that are needed to deal with the problems of the developing world.

I will be very brief. I, too, support the Bill. I am not sure what basis there is for Senator Brendan Ryan's arguments. I do not have to carry a brief for Senator Ryan, he is well able to look after himself, sometimes to my electoral detriment I fear, but I know he feels very deeply that it is not a question of transferring resources from North to South, it is not just a question of providing the developing countries with the educational opportunities, it is not even a question of birth control although I must say that I think Senator Conroy was a little mistaken. I do not think that Senator Raftery was arguing that we should, to use a colourful Irish phrase, shove contraceptives down their throats. I believe what Senator Raftery was saying is that it is utterly unrealistic to think that population control can be effected without proper resources, the proper education and so on. I thought it was quite a reasonable point to make, to provide these cultures — they may indeed, as Senator Conroy pointed out be very different from ours — at least with knowledge and technical know-how which they do not have access to at the moment.

Senator Ryan goes beyond this and would, like myself, feel that even if, through some miracle, mankind disarmed tomorrow and the vast resources poured into armaments could be made available for the purpose of economic development, we are still not at the bottom line. The bottom line really is that we enjoy our standard of living in the west because these countries are poor and wretched. We live off them really. We use the natural resources of the world to such an extravagant extent that there is nothing there for them. Indeed we have, in passing, helped to destroy our environment as well. It goes far beyond this business of hand-outs, education or anything of that kind. There are very fundamental questions here and I can understand why Senator Ryan feels such measures as IDA financial contributions are inadequate for the problem.

There is genuine, popular concern in Ireland at what is perceived to be the cuts in overseas aid. It is a matter of popular concern as evidenced, as Senator Raftery said, by the astonishing level of voluntary contributions people make. They do not see why Government have to cut their already low level of contributions. Indeed, paradoxically, one could say that if Governments were in pursuit of cheap popularity they would maintain and increase the level of ODA.

I take it that there are defendable fiscal reasons why these cuts had to be made in the mid-eighties. It is a real, popular concern. We profess to have an international awareness. In a way our foreign policy and much of our much maligned neutrality policy is not at all about armaments or non-armaments but a way of looking at the world. Our way of looking at the world is that we feel, for historical reasons, a profound sense of identity with developing countries.

I would be loathe to condemn reductions in aid. For example, Mr. Pat Cox, MEP, was reported in The Irish Times on 11 October 1990, and quoted by Senator O'Toole, as saying, speaking about our low level of contribution, that it suggests we are self-centred, mean and indifferent, not only to the poorest of the poor but also to our international obligations. That is an extravagant use of language. I hope that the Government are doing what they can in this regard.

I agree with Senator Raftery's views on population control in these countries. Above all, I am concerned about the area of indebtedness of these developing countries, the debt of these low income countries, as the Minister said, to their official creditors. I am not quite sure what can be done in this area. I was one of the large cross-party list of people who signed a promise of support for the European Campaign on Debt and Development which had a meeting in Dublin last Saturday. The statistics are really startling. Dr. Tom McCarthy, as quoted in The Irish Times of Monday last — an economist in Maynooth College — told the seminar that the total external debt for developing countries at the end of 1989 was $1,214 billion, or 32 per cent of their aggregate income. Their external debt represents 32 per cent of their aggregate income.

We know how frustrated we feel in this country because we contribute so much to the servicing of our national debt. The standard figure is that all of the PAYE take goes to service our national debt. For us it is a severe inconvenience but it is not a matter of life and death as it is for people from Brazil, for example. An economist from Brazil at the same conference said that for every dollar in aid or investment which Latin America got in the 1980s, $1.46 left the region, mostly in the form of debt repayments. For every dollar they get in aid or investment they pay out £1.50 in the form of debt repayment.

I do not see how the whole IDA scheme can be any more than a drop in the ocean compared with the enormous problem of the foreign debt of these developing countries. Brazil, again to quote Dr. Marcus Arrudan, paid $147 billion in the 1980s in servicing its foreign debt but the debt continues to grow. Debtor countries have to borrow yet more just to keep up their interest payments. Children in the Philippines are malnourished despite the fact that the Philippines is among the 15 largest food producers in the world.

This goes nearer the heart of the problem than arguing about precise amounts of contributions or complaining about the percentage reduction in contributions. It is a cosmic problem really and public opinion in the West must be educated about it. Banks and politicians, etc., must adopt policies which contribute towards resolving it. In the meantime, I see no reason to share the opposition of my colleague, Senator Ryan, to this Bill I am glad to support it.

Like other Senators, I welcome the moneys allocated but I share their disappointment about the amount allocated from 1986. If you relate £9.6 million to £12.74 million £4 million is very little. At this time of the year particularly, Irish people always turn their attention to those less well-off. It is significant that twice yearly, at Christmas and at Lent, the general public respond generously towards the Third World. We are very much aware of their plight.

The plight of the Third World is extremely worrying because those countries are becoming poorer. I was glad to note that in the history of the IDA their moneys are now going, not so much towards huge infrastructural projects, but more towards what I consider small based projects, particularly rural community projects, those that can be monitored, assessed and helped by personnel going from Ireland to the Third World. I am glad that the IDA funding is going in that direction.

Our commitment of £0.16 in 1990 was a pitiful £34.4 million. Looking at our Community colleagues — we do not have figures for Portugal, Greece or Spain as yet, because of their rather recent entry to EC — we can see that our contribution is very low compared with the contributions of other EC countries. One could say that the amounts from Portugal, Greece and Spain have not yet built up but I am sure they will pass us out. We will probably be left where we are within OECD, on the lowest rung of the aid ladder. That would be a shame because it is certainly not the wish of the Irish people that the Government would respond in such a niggardly fashion. I would not like to be classed with Austria and the United States, extraordinarily rich countries, who are the world's meanest countries.

With regard to the two areas of aid, multilateral aid and bilateral aid, it is interesting that we honour our commitment where we cannot do anything about it, but where we have discretion, as regards bilateral aid, we need to be driven in order to reach, gradually, the United Nations figure.

In regard to our bilateral aid programme to four countries, Lesotho, Tanzania, Zambia and Sudan, it is a shame that the cuts are most severe in those countries. We obviously cannot opt out of international treaty agreements. This I suppose, is the only reason our aid is up in those areas. We seem always to want to be driven. We are not dutifully bound in those areas but we are conscious bound in relation to the bilateral area.

It is interesting that in an area close to my heart, the UNICEF programme, the cutback between 1986 and 1990 dropped from £420,000 to £123,000. That is a dramatic cut. I suppose there is a certain irony in the fact that the Taoiseach, in his declaration of intent towards the implementation of the United Nations Commission on the Rights of the Child, declared his intention and yet there is a cutting back in funds for the primary child welfare unit within the United Nations.

Another point I would like to concentrate on is the whole concept in Ireland at the moment on rural development. There has been a huge anger from small and large farmers in the past few weeks in relation to the GATT talks and the possibility that our aid in that particular area would be cut. We seem to forget that the same farmers — I should not say the same farmers because they are 1,000 times worse off than we are — are continually driven off the land in Asia and Africa.

We are demanding, very vociferously, aid to us as a poor peripheral country when over five years we will be getting 80 per cent of an increase from EC funding. I find it strange that we would not have sympathy towards the farmers in Third World countries whose plight is much worse, where they should be left to farm the resources. In many cases since colonial times they engage in cash crops which do very little to add to the coffers of the poor. They are left with the marginal lands; an echo of "to Hell or to Connaught". We can remember very well the same punishment meted out to us, as is being meted out to Third World countries. We should show a far greater empathy and sympathetic commitment, not just in verbal sympathy but through financial means, towards those farmers in Third World areas who are marginalised. We should be able to identify very closely with them. It is hypocritical of us to ignore their plight when we are screaming so vociferously for a share of the EC cake for ourselves.

I would like to refer briefly to the £1 million which has been mentioned today that seems to have got lost between the Book of Estimates and the budget. That caused a lot of controversy and disappointment when we debated Third World issues this time last year. I ask that, between the Estimates and the budget, a similar figure, or even more, will not get lost this year.

As regards debt relief, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, will be going to Brussels to, hopefully cancel some of the debts of the LOMÉ countries, the ACP countries, to EC. I hope he will lend his support to the Commission in relation to the cancelling of the debt which those people can ill afford to pay. It will, at least, show we are committed towards reduction of money which those people have no hope of repaying. We should, again identify on an Irish basis in relation to the extraordinary difficulty we had on debt management and we are still under pressure in relation to the relief of our debt. It is an area where we should be sympathetic towards our Third World neighbours.

The last point I will make is that we read every day that there is a vast improvement in our economy. If there is, the first positive step should be towards alleviating the problems of our less developed neighbours in Third World countries. While I welcome the aid provided for in the Bill, members of Fine Gael and other Senators on this side of the House who have spoken will be looking forward to the Government increasing money towards overseas development. We should be debating this all the time in that context.

I call again, with other speakers, to bring back the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Overseas Development. It is essential as we debate global issues week in, week out, that that would be the venue where we could voice our opinions. Our opinions are not exclusive to ourselves. They represent the demands from the people of Ireland who respond so generously towards Third World problems.

I thank the Members of the Seanad who have contributed to the International Development Association (Amendment) Bill, 1990 and for the virtually unanimous support for the proposals contained in that Bill. I apologise for the Minister for Finance who had hoped to be here to reply to this debate personally but because of the interest in it the debate went on somewhat longer than he had originally considered might be the case and as he had other engagements he was unable to be here.

Clearly the contributions from the House indicate a great understanding and also a great willingness to try to grapple with a problem which, in terms of solution, has defied greater economies than ours in recent times. We are still faced with the kind of problems that have emerged, of young children dying everyday, of countries unable to develop their own resources. Points were made with regard to exploitation and problems relating to the environment. These are all unassailable, undeniable facts and require very considerable effort on the part of the western economies to try to find more quickly solutions to these international global problems.

A number of Senators criticised recent trends in Ireland's official development assistance. While I readily admit the trend has not been satisfactory, regrettable though it is, it forms part of our successful effort to try to re-establish control over the State's finances. For that purpose, sacrifices had to be made in many socially and economically desirable areas of public spending and unfortunately, overseas development aid could not be treated as an exception. Despite trends in recent years, however, the Government remain firmly pledged to achieving the target of 0.7 per cent of GNP for ODA and we shall move as quickly as circumstances will allow to that target. For the moment, though, it is reasonable to point out that in relation to ODA the US, a far richer country, is below us in relative terms as are Spain, Greece, Portugal, our fellow members of the EC.

A point was made that the Government are lagging behind public opinion and that the public at large are very anxious to see these funds considerably increased. I would be the first to accept that is the position because it is reflected very much in the voluntry contributions by the public. Senators, I am sure would also accept that if there was a plebiscite on expenditure for education, the public would say spend more on education and if they were asked in turn should we spend more on health, they would vote to do so. If they were asked should we spend more on social welfare and could we have a minimum wage, they would probably support that also. On the other hand, if there was a vote as to whether we should increase personal taxation in order to achieve these aims I am sure the vote in those circumstances would be different.

It was very clear in the contributions from all sides of the House — I appreciate that — that there is a great understanding not only of the fiscal difficulties but also of the problems relating to ensuring that the systems which distribute international aid are looked at seriously because it is quite clear that everything that is happening in that sphere is not as well as we would want it to be. I am not trying to put that as a reason for any deterioration or any lessening in the amount that is available. Needless to say, it is a question that has to be addressed as well.

We must also not forget the nature and quality of our ODA. Our official aid is given by way of grant and is untied. We set no conditions about buying Irish, while in the case of aid from many other countries the beneficiary must spend the money on the goods and services of that country. As regards quality, I merely point out that the OECD development assistance committee has complimented Ireland on the quality of our bilateral aid programme. Finally, when making international comparisons of the aid efforts of various countries, it is necessary to take into account the total contribution of that country from both official and private sources. The latest OECD statistics show Ireland as having the highest voluntary aid contribution of any developed country. When that is added to our ODA it shows Ireland's performance in a better light.

Some Senators have justifiably been critical of the adverse environmental impact on less developed countries of the activities of industrial countries. The management of the World Bank and of the IDA have shown themselves more than alive to that problem. Indeed, when in 1986 the current president of the bank assumed office he stated that one of his top priorities would be the improvement of the bank's activities, with particular reference to the relationship with the environment.

This commitment was of special relevance to the IDA because the IDA deal exclusively with the poorest of developing countries. It is in these countries that the environment is particularly vulnerable. In their policy discussion with Governments the IDA now emphasise the importance of environmental issues and seek to ensure that their projects and programmes are friendly to the environment.

Evidence of the progress made is the way in which donor countries welcomed this aspect of IDA activities during the negotiations on IDA 9. Beyond the action already taken, IDA's management have undertaken to prepare environmental action plans for all their clients during the period of the ninth replenishment. Moreover, in preparing appraisals of individual projects the IDA will consult the people immediately affected and non-governmental organisations at both the planning and implementation stages.

To conclude on this point, I would like to point out that the World Bank are assuming increasing responsibility for environment at global level. At the moment they are involved in a proposal to set up a global environmental facility. This is certainly a welcome step in the right direction.

Senator Doyle contended that development assistance should be given to poor countries irrespective of their political philosophies and domestic political situations. That, indeed, is the approach of the IDA whose vocation it is to raise development levels and not to change political systems. In fact, in the course of the negotiations on IDA 9, it was agreed that the IDA should maintain contact through self-standing projects with countries whose governments may not be pursuing the most appropriate economic policies.

Senator Brendan Ryan referred in disparaging terms to the World Bank. The World Bank was set up to promote the development of less developed countries. To this end it borrows on the capital markets and lends on at the same rate of interest——

If I could interrupt the Minister briefly, I do not mind giving you a couple of minutes if it is your intention to conclude.

It is my intention to conclude. It borrows on the capital markets and on lends at the same rate of interest, plus a small margin to cover expenses and maintain a reserve against losses. That is not a usurious approach, as the Senator contends. Since time has run out, I would merely like to thank the remaining Senators who contributed on whose contributions I did not have an opportunity to refer to specifically. It has always been my practice here to try to refer especially to the essential points but we will take those on board and, in the course of the later Stages of the Bill, as far as we can, try to meet the various requests that have been made by Members.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Bill put through Committee, reported without recommendation, received for final consideration and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.
Sitting suspended at 6 p.m. and resumed at 6.30 p.m.
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