It is proposed to take items 1 and 2 today. Item 1 is to conclude not later than 1 p.m., with the Minister to be called to reply not later than 12.45 p.m. item 2 is to commence at 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
I had expected that the Leader of the House would have risked being slightly out of order today by referring to last night's very exciting game and Ireland's great victory. I was hoping to concur with the Leader's remarks in this regard.
I will follow Senator Mullooly's lead.
Thank you. What are the Leader's proposals for the debate on the recently published White Paper on education? I suggest that this debate be spread over a number of sitting days. I do so because I understand that many schools and boards of management have still not received copies of the White Paper and have not had an opportunity to consider its contents. It is important that our debate in this House should reflect the views of those interests. Finally, would the Leader consider making time available to discuss the purge which appears to have been initiated against members of the Fianna Fáil Party who serve on State boards?
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not really relevant to the Order of Business, Senator.
It is very relevant, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. I know for many years the two members who have most recently been asked to resign from a semi-State body and they are people of the highest integrity. I would not like to think that in this country we have our own form of ethnic cleansing——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I am sure the Senator will find some more appropriate way to raise that matter.
——but perhaps the Leader might make provision to have a debate on this matter.
First, I concur with the two items raised by the acting leader of the Opposition, particularly regarding the White Paper on education. It is very difficult to have the debate at the moment when those involved in education do not have widespread access to the White Paper. It has not yet been sent to schools. The Leader of the House has given me a commitment that he will have a debate on this and that should be done over the next couple of weeks. I think the Minister would welcome such a debate as well. There are important reasons why what is good in that paper should be underlined and emphasised, particularly at a time when there are public differences among the educational partners about aspects of policy. It is important that a consensus would develop on those issues on which we are all agreed.
I want to raise another issue which I am sure will be interpreted as being in some way party political. I ask people to give some consideration to the fact that over the last seven years in this House I have consistently opposed legislation which debarred elected public representatives from holding office or sitting on boards. It has nothing to do with the membership of a particular party. I appeal to my colleagues on the far side of the House on the Government benches to reject, question and challenge every proposal which seems to give public credence to the idea that public representatives——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Do you have a question for the Leader?
——I am putting it and I do not wish this to be seen in any way as party political. Were it proposed in legislation by any political party I would take precisely the same line. If these issues are not questioned, it does not help us in attempting to give public credence to the importance of participating in political life.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
In fairness, Senator.
I am leading to a question.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I ask the Senator to put his question.
There is a need for a debate on the involvement of people in public representation at local and national level. There is potential loss for us all if people who are successful in business or aspects of public life are debarred from participation in public boards. I do not agree with the comments made by the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on the radio this morning that it should be in the gift of Ministers to look after their friends. This is not my point, but I am seriously concerned about this matter. I have repeatedly made the point about the general impression which is given of public representatives.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
In fairness. Senator.
I stated previously in the House that I do not think two from a total of 100 post primary pupils would opt for politics or public representation as an occupation in life. I said this two years ago and it caused much annoyance to Members on both sides of the House. I do not want to subscribe to——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
In fairness, Senator. You are making a speech on this matter and you know it.
On a number of occasions I have endeavoured to raise the situation at Shannon Aerospace and to get some indication as to whether the Minister will make a statement in the House in that regard. The Leas-Chathaoirleach is aware that there is much uncertainty regarding the future of Shannon Aerospace. There is still a necessity to restore confidence in the workforce and the region regarding the future prospects of the industry. There are still some doubts, even though the Government has agreed to make a substantial investment in the project.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader, Senator.
There are still some doubts in relation to the commitment of Lufthansa and Swissair to the establishment and maintenance of additional work there. Could the Leader give some indication as to whether the Minister will make a statement in the House? I also ask the Leader to obtain copies of the business plan. This is the formula which has been supported to the tune of £12 million by the Shannon development agency. We have not been in a position to examine the plan, which forms the basis of the new arrangement.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I am sure that will be the subject of a debate, if one is provided.
Could the Leader arrange for us to receive copies of the business plan?
I support the case made by Senator Mullooly regarding the removal of people from State boards. It is most appropriate to raise this matter in the House because we must be very conscious of our electorate, to whom we have a responsibility. If our electorate is to be treated in this manner, it is our duty and responsibility——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not debating this matter, Senator. Do you have a question for the Leader?
——to highlight any wrongs which may be done to them. I ask the Leader to ask a Government spokesperson to come to the House and explain why our electorate is being treated in this manner.
What about Councillor Carey in County Clare? What happened there?
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Finneran without interruption.
It is easy to forget now that there was major flooding in the country from Christmas until recently. This issue was raised on many occasions in the House and different Ministers gave commitments. All local authorities——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader, Senator.
I ask the Leader if a Government spokesperson will indicate in the House if moneys will be made available. We cannot forget what happened in January, February and March just because the sun is high in the sky at present. Several local authorities, including mine, are in need of £1 million to redress the damage done by the severe weather.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Is the Senator seeking a debate on this issue?
I ask the Leader to either invite a Government spokesperson to the House——
What about the seven years of neglect previously?
——or provide time for a debate on this issue. There must be a Government response at this stage.
I ask the Leader when the remaining Stages of the Civil Legal Aid Bill will be taken? I was quite surprised to read in the newspapers last Tuesday about appointments which had been made by the Minister to the board, given that the main amendments put down by Opposition parties to the Bill dealt with the composition of the board. It would have been more in order if the Minister had waited until the Bill had been passed by both Houses before making appointments. I understand he made seven appointments last Monday, which took me by surprise.
I wish to agree with my two colleagues in relation to a debate on the White Paper. This matter is timely and it is a pity that copies are not available to all interested groups. Many interesting topics are covered by the paper, which will provoke interesting discussion. It is an appropriate time to deal with this matter, given that it is before the end of the academic year. This issue should be debated in the next couple of weeks.
I also agree with my colleagues in relation to the removal of two fine people from semi-State bodies. What is the criteria for appointments?
Membership of Fine Gael.
If one holds public office, will one not be appointed?
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing this matter today.
This issue should be discussed.
I ask the Leader to guarantee that the promise given by the Minister during the discussion on the Arterial Drainage Bill, which was introduced by Senator Daly recently, will be met. At that time the Minister gave two deadlines, one of which was the end of April for the publication of the Government's new Arterial Drainage Bill. The other was the promise that the Bill would be introduced in the Seanad before the end of May. I wish to remind the Leader that both of those deadlines are approaching. We wish to ensure that both will be met.
Will the Leader make time available to discuss the section 19 report on the affairs of Clonmannon and associated companies? This matter has been discussed four times in the House and Seanad Éireann is responsible for bringing this issue to the attention of the people. I am personally disappointed by the Pontius Pilate type response from the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. He has washed his hands of the affairs of Clonmannon by passing the buck to someone else.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing the issue now. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Given the interests of the Seanad, could the Leader arrange to have the report, which was produced and circulated last week by the Department, circulated to Senators? Perhaps a debate on this issue could then be arranged.
I ask the Leader to refer to a fine speech made in this House many years ago by the late John Kelly on the issue of appointments to the boards of State bodies. He made the very wise point that it would be reprehensible to exclude people from State boards simply on the basis of their suspected or real political leanings. Could a debate be arranged on the whole principle of excluding public representatives simply because they are public representatives? I wholeheartedly concur with the point made by Senator O'Toole. It is reprehensible and wrong in every way that public representatives——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader.
——should be excluded from these offices simply because they are public representatives. I am sure Senator Manning will agree and I ask him to arrange a debate on this issue.
I wish to inquire when the Government intends to introduce the Arterial Drainage (Amendment) Bill. I note from the Seanad Official Report of Wednesday, 8 March, during Senator Quinn's contribution, that a commitment was given that the Bill would be published before 30 April and introduced in the Seanad before 31 May. I ask the Leader the position in this regard.
The removal of public representatives from State bodies downgrades members of local authorities. This is, more than any other activity——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I am sure the Leader of the House is aware of the Senator's concern.
I concur with Senator Roche in calling for a debate on appointments.
I support Senator Quinn's request to the Leader in connection with the Arterial Drainage Bill. I remind the Leader it was on the basis of that promise that some of us took a particular position at that time. There is a wider principle involved for the Independents. It is precisely on the basis of such promises that we take certain approaches at the time of the introduction of legislation. It would have very serious implications if such promises were not honoured.
I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate on stress.
(Interruptions.)
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Lanigan without interruption. I am sure he will clarify his point.
The Secretary General of the INTO is here and both he and Senator Norris have been talking about stress in the teaching profession for the last 12 months——
(Interruptions.)
——and now the banks are talking about stress. Is it not about time for customers of banks and parents of children going to school to talk about it? Can the Leader of the House bring the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Education into the House to discuss stress among the customers of the banks and the users of the teachers, whether the teachers are members of the INTO, ASTI or TUI?
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You have made your point, Senator.
Senator Mullooly said that it would be appropriate that we should commend the Irish football team for their very fine display last night and I am happy to join with him, on behalf of the House, in so doing. Those of us who had the privilege to be there had a thoroughly entertaining and enjoyable evening.
The Minister for Education will be in the House to debate the White Paper on Education, which will start around the second week of May. I agree with the Senators who said that the debate should be open ended and we will arrange for this. It will start not later than the second week in May and we will then let it take as much time as it needs because there is a huge range of issues to be discussed.
I would be delighted to have a discussion on the principles and policy underlining the staffing of State boards. In fact, as Senator O'Toole mentioned on a number of occasions in the past, I did comment on this when I was in Opposition. There is a major question to be discussed as to why Members of the Oireachtas are barred from membership of State boards, but this side of the House has nothing to fear from a full and open discussion on the principles underlying the staffing of State boards and of the practice in which it is being carried out.
Senator Daly raised the question of the business plan. I am not sure it is appropriate to debate it, but I will make inquiries and communicate with the Senator later this morning to let him know if it can be done. Senator Finneran, like a number of other Senators yesterday, raised the question of roads. I am in communication with the Department of the Environment to see if we could discuss that matter in the very near future.
Senator Honan raised the question of the Civil Legal Aid Bill. I understand that a number of the places on the board have still been left vacant, but there is a definite date for taking Committee Stage of that Bill — I think it is the week after next.
Is that Report Stage?
No, it is still on Committee Stage.
Senators Quinn, Lee and Kiely raised the question of the Arterial Drainage Bill. I informed the House yesterday that this Bill has been completed — it is currently having its i's dotted and t's crossed. It will go to Government at the beginning of next week and I guarantee that it will be available in and processed through this House well before the end of May, as promised. There is a slight delay with the Bill's publication, but the Bill itself has been completed and is currently being examined by the legal section of the Department. It will be published after going to Government next Tuesday.
The Clonmannon report was raised by Senator Roche. It has been raised by the Senator effectively in this House on a number of occasions on the Adjournment. The matter could be adequately raised again there, but I will raise it with the Minister.
I am not sure what comment I should make on the question of stress, as raised by Senator Lanigan. I thought last evening's performance would have lifted the stress from most of us.
Order of Business agreed to.