Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Dec 1997

Vol. 153 No. 5

Adjournment Matters. - Local Authority Members.

Mr. Burke

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and wish him well on his appointment. I am sure he will do an excellent job. I am disappointed the Minister for the Environment and Local Government is not in the House to take this matter but I am sure the Minister of State is fully briefed on all aspects of local authorities.

As a former member of the Local Authority Members' Association, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, is the one person all the local authority members look to for guidance. They place their trust in him that more powers will be given to local authorities in the next couple of months. I also wish the Minister for the Environment and Local Government well in his portfolio. It is appropriate that this matter be dealt with at this time as the Minister is bringing about changes in the structure and funding of local authorities. There will be no change in local authorities unless they are given powers to raise funds and change their structures.

This matter relates to members' attendance and expenses for attending local authority meetings. We are all aware that if members do not attend at least 80 per cent of local authority meetings, they will not be paid. It is right that members should not be paid for meetings which they have not attended. If a member is sick, allowances should be made. A local authority should have discretion in relation to members' expenses, particularly if they have been ill. It is unfair if a member, who is sick for 30 per cent of meetings and attends the remaining 70 per cent, does not qualify for payment for attendance. I hope the Minister will consider this matter in the review of the local authority system and give local authorities discretion so that they may decide if a member is genuinely sick and should be paid for attending meetings.

I raise the question of county enterprise boards. A number of local authority members are on county enterprise boards and they do not qualify for expenses. It is unfair that members of local authorities must sit with other board members on county enterprise boards who qualify. We all appreciate the value of the work they do.

Mr. Cassidy

Discrimination.

Mr. Burke

Senator Cassidy is right; local authority members are discriminated against in this regard. I ask the Minister of State to bring this matter to the Minister's attention so that it may be rectified. Local authority members on county enterprise boards should be paid travel expenses by the county enterprise board or the relevant local authority.

Local authority members' expenses or allowances should be index linked to the rate of inflation or the national wage agreement. It is unfair that members' allowances are not increased. I ask the Minister of State to bring that matter to the Minister's attention. I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for allowing me to raise this matter because it is important that it is dealt with at this stage because the Minister will bring about changes in the structures of local authorities in the new year.

Mrs. Ridge

I thank Senator Burke for sharing his time. I endorse the sentiments expressed in relation to the Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Wallace. I would like to make a plea for councillors who are absent on council business. They are marked absent and are not allowed claim travel and subsistence expenses. Local authority members in the Dublin area have the same problem with the partnership and urban boards as other members have with the county enterprise boards. It is a diminution of the role of the councillor to expect people to travel to meetings at their own expense. In case I sound too petty, I draw the Minister's attention to the fact that Dublin councillors lost one third of their yearly allowances when meetings were capped. In the area I represent and in other growing urban areas, there are, in some cases, only three councillors per 30,000 voters. It is most unfair and I do not know of any other sector in society which would have lost allowances without an outcry.

Councillors are the front-line troops in our democracy. If we do not get proper remuneration, we are telling society that only well-off people can run for election or people who are subsidised by trade unions or other groups. People will be unable to go forward for election unless the Minister, in whom I have great faith, comes forward with realistic funding proposals. The labourer is always worthy of his hire.

Mr. Caffrey

I support my colleagues. I would like to point out an anomaly in relation to county enterprise partnership boards to which Senator Burke referred. Members of those boards who represent communities and other bodies get expenses while councillors get nothing.

Mr. Cassidy

I would like to be associated with the remarks made.

Mr. T. Fitzgerald

I also would like to be associated with the remarks made and I congratulate Members on raising this matter.

An Cathaoirleach

I am not always as generous as I am this evening in giving time to Members but because it is near Christmas, I am in an exceptionally generous mood in the amount of latitude I have allowed.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government (Mr. D. Wallace)

I thank Senator Burke and Senator Ridge for their comments. I will bring the points raised to the Minister's attention. Councillors receive an annual expenses allowance designed to cater for attendance at meetings of the council and its committees. A booklet outlining the system was distributed to all councillors on its introduction in January 1994. The allowance is calculated by reference to a formula which is designed to meet reasonable expenses for travel and subsistence, as well as an element for postage, telephone and miscellaneous representational expenses. The annual allowance system was reviewed in 1995 following which some improvements were made. For example, increases in the travel and subsistence rates for senior local authority officials are now automatically passed on to councillors. There has been a number of such increases.

The expenses allowance for city and county councillors is by its very nature related to attendance at council meetings. At the time the system was being introduced, councillors themselves sought an attendance requirement. However, I want to make it clear that councillors do not have to attend all the relevant council meetings to qualify for the full allowance; a tolerance of up to 20 per cent non attendance still qualifies. A 50 per cent attendance requirement is all that is necessary to qualify for the full representational element of the allowance.

Members of the House would agree that the reduced attendance requirement, as outlined, for what is substantially an allowance to cover necessary travel and subsistence costs, is reasonable by any standard. Moreover, the reduced attendance thresholds go a fair distance to catering for situations where, in the normal course, councillors are unable to attend through illness. However, to be more generous in this regard would seriously call into question the current tax free status of the expenses allowance. As Members may be aware, the system had to be approved by the Revenue Commissioners in this respect at the time of its introduction in 1994 and again when the improvements were made arising from the review in 1995.

The introduction of the strategic policy committees will call for some adjustment in the councillors' expenses system. Guidelines on the establishment and operation of the SPCs have been recently issued by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to city and county councils. A review of the expenses system has now commenced and data is being sought from local authorities. While the review is at an early stage, the Minister considers that it will result in some increase in the present level of expenses.

Mr. Burke

I am delighted the Minister has left the door open by saying there is some room for improvement and that when the strategy policy committees are put in place, there will be an adjustment in the councillors' expenses system. I have no doubt the Minister of State will convey our views to the Minister who will consider them when carrying out his review.