Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 17 Dec 1998

Vol. 157 No. 17

Northern Ireland: Statements.

The Taoiseach

Before beginning, I am sure the House would wish to join with me in offering our warmest congratulations to both John Hume and David Trimble on their becoming Nobel laureates.

Northern Ireland has benefited enormously from the leadership shown by John Hume and David Trimble in the achievement of the Good Friday Agreement. John Hume has been, as the Nobel committee expressed it, the principal architect of the structures that now comprise the Agreement. First Minister David Trimble now has the onerous task, together with Deputy First Minister Seamus Mallon, of leading on the implementation of crucial areas of the Agreement.

Today's debate gives us an opportunity to discuss where the Agreement stands now, to review our achievements over the past year and to explore how we might get through our current difficulties. Quite frankly, I would have wished to be able to report to the House that the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement is proceeding on schedule. After the overwhelming endorsement of the Agreement, which so clearly now embodies the will of the people North and South, I would have expected the Executive to be meeting at least in shadow form; likewise, the North-South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council to have held their inaugural meetings in shadow form. I would have expected more significant progress to have been made on the normalisation of the security, including a clearer start on the process of decommissioning paramilitary weapons.

Many of the Northern parties have done their utmost and have been frustrated at the lack of progress, beyond establishing the Assembly. All parties need to show a strong commitment to fulfilling their obligations under the Agreement, and not creating unnecessary difficulties for others. It is highly undesirable to give any impression that a political vacuum has been allowed to develop or that any party would be allowed to hollow out or evade its obligations under the Agreement. There must be a credibility about the implementation process, which is what we have been seeking to secure over the past few weeks.

Similarly, if we continue to focus on what divides and polarises, in terms of the Agreement, it will be difficult to make progress on its implementation. I have, from the moment of the achievement of the Agreement, continuously emphasised that partnership, equality and mutual respect lie at the heart of the Agreement. To make the Agreement a reality, we must make these concepts a reality. The Irish Government, in fulfilling its commitments under the Agreement, has sought to do so in a spirit of partnership. We do not see our position on the North-South aspect of the Agreement as threatening and we have no intention of engaging in a onesided takeover of the areas involved.

We have always said this is a balanced Agreement. It recognises the substantial difference between equally legitimate political aspirations. We seek to accommodate these aspirations through meaningful institutions, while also believing that the practical benefits of these arrangements are clear.

The North-South Ministerial Council will bring the Government and those with executive responsibilities in Northern Ireland together in equality. Council decisions will be by agreement, all operating in accordance with the rules for democratic authority and accountability in force in the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Oireachtas, respectively. The Government in all its dealings on these matters has sought to be realistic and businesslike. We want the relationship between North and South to be similarly disposed. Were our current proposals in this regard to implementation bodies to be published today, I would defy anybody to conclude that they were excessive or threatening. They are eminently reasonable.

However, there must be a balance between the different Strands of the Agreement. Nobody could fail to recognise this and those who seek to empty Strand Two of substance need to consider carefully the risks they are taking because it is a very important part of the Agreement.

With regard to the Northern Ireland Assembly, we would wish to see everyone involved in politics there working to the same objective, the betterment of the people of Northern Ireland. In the ordinary political landscape diversity of view, even healthy partisanship, is to be welcomed. The basis of political discourse is, of course, people with similar views coalescing and forming alliances to get things done. It would be a very dull political environment if every party was of the same persuasion. However, it is very difficult to comprehend politics that has stagnation at its heart.

In any evolving situation, and the political situation in Northern Ireland has evolved radically in recent years, politics must move and shift with the changing times and this change must be embraced. As part of this, all violence, political and sectarian, must be in the past. The Northern Ireland Assembly provides the opportunity for politicians from all the parties to work on behalf of their constituents, for the people of Northern Ireland as a whole and to forge better relations on the island of Ireland and, through the British-Irish Council, between the people of these islands. In short, we want to get on with it because, ultimately, politics is not about making shapes on the tightrope, it is about delivering a service to the public.

As Senators may be aware, our negotiations on implementation bodies and areas for co-operation have centred mainly on the areas identified in the Good Friday Agreement. I do not intend now to add substantively to what I have earlier or to go into the details of our negotiating strategy, but I will say that a considerable amount of progress has been made and that in so far as full agreement has not been reached, it is not because of lack of enthusiasm, homework or flexibility on the part of the Government. It is disappointing that full agreement has not been reached yet, but work will continue and we will try and achieve agreement at the earliest time.

There are many horizontal issues, such as financial, legal and personnel issues on which, again, a considerable amount of work has been done, but until final agreement has been reached on the areas, they cannot be brought to finality, and of course many of the issues will have to be considered carefully with staff interests.

As has been said many times, in addition to the practical benefits they bring, the North-South arrangements provide institutional expression to the identity that northern Nationalists share with people in the South. It has been long recognised, going back to Éamon de Valera and other statesmen, that the wishes to belong, both of Unionists and Nationalists in Northern Ireland, divergent as they are, can live together more easily if Ireland and Britain can live closer together too. Successive Governments have been very conscious of the importance of closer relations and co-operation. The speech by Prime Minister Blair to the Joint Sitting of the Houses of the Oireachtas was a fitting reflection of the new departure in relations between our two countries represented by the Good Friday Agreement. The British-Irish Council will provide a useful forum to promote the harmonious and mutually beneficial development of the totality of relationships among the people of these islands.

The conclusion of the Good Friday Agreement was one of the most important developments in these islands and, coupled with the movement towards devolution in Britain, I hope and believe it will lead to a new spirit of co-operation and friendship between the different component parts of these islands. It will be difficult in future for anyone to take the position that Britain equals England or London. In future Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will have institutional expression of their own distinctive political personalities. The British-Irish Council will have the potential to evolve over time while fully respecting sovereignty, and it may contribute to the more effective representation of regional as well as national interests.

While naturally, in view of the 31 October deadline, our main focus to date has been on the North-South dimension, the Strand Three dimensions, the British-Irish Council and the Intergovernmental Conference have also received attention and will be further developed in the coming months.

The coming months will also see activity intensify in the legislative area. In addition to the legislation necessary to implement Strand Two arrangements, the Government's legislative programme will include the establishment of the Human Rights Commission, equal status legislation and the amendment of the Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956. Other legislative measures to strengthen and underpin the constitutional protection of human rights may be decided on in the light of the provisions of the Agreement, which requires us to consider the possible incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into law; and the implementation of the recommendations of the committee which will review the Offences Against the State Acts.

I acknowledge the helpful contributions by Opposition parties and party leaders to this process and I would also like to acknowledge and thank Senators, especially the Leaders in the House, for their ongoing support for the difficult process upon which we are embarked.

It is a difficult process but since it began, there have been many periods where it appears to have stalled and where some began to lose faith. However, it has survived. At crucial times we have, all of us, been able to take the actions necessary to move on. We have, on all sides, had to take actions that we did not necessarily want to take and we know, and acknowledge, the pain and suffering caused to others by some of the actions we have taken. However, all of the actions and all the risks have been taken to consolidate peace and work towards a better future for ourselves and for generations to come.

With regard to decommissioning, we believed, in concluding the Good Friday Agreement, that we had found a way to provide the conditions and the formula whereby political progress and decommissioning would and could take place, sooner rather than later. Eight months on from the signing of the Agreement, it is disappointing that the issue could remain an obstacle. If demilitarisation is the objective, nobody can opt out of making a contribution to it. Everybody knows the situation.

I return to what I said earlier. All the parties to the negotiations, all those who signed up to the Agreement, all those who continue to support the Agreement, must act in a spirit of partnership. We must recognise that for all of us there are difficulties and that stalemate is the enemy of everyone. The progress we have made, we have made together, bringing our supporters and the people with us.

On 22 May the people of this island, North and South, gave us their support because they wanted accommodation. We have a duty to the people to move forward together, to implement all of the Agreement, in the letter and in the spirit, and to build that lasting accommodation. At all stages of the peace process it was agreed that a normal civil society was the ultimate goal, and on the Nationalist and republican side that this would involve complete demilitarisation. An armed peace is not demilitarisation. If the Agreement and its institutions are to work, then their establishment must be accompanied by a tangible commitment to dismantling on all sides the structures and arsenals of conflict.

I thank Seámus Mallon for his special contribution. This phase of the negotiations, which is not as high profiled as the earlier ones, started when the 31 October deadline was missed. The discussions began with a round table session at Stormont on 2 November. Being the first Taoiseach to visit Stormont since Seán Lemass in the middle 1960s, I knew this phase would be difficult. I did not know it would be so painfully long.

At this stage I hope we are near to concluding matters, otherwise there will be a break for Christmas without a conclusion. Seámus Mallon was to attend hospital for a very serious operation last Friday. He postponed it over the weekend so that we could make progress on Monday. He then further delayed it but his medical consultants have told him this morning he must stop work after today and undergo the operation first thing in the morning. This week he has worked every day for 18 to 19 hours. If I have spoken to him once I have spoken to him 50 times. I wish to put my thanks to him on the record. Séamus has been a long time in politics and is not as young as he would like to be. He has taken a huge amount of pressure in this calendar year and it must now end for him with a serious operation. I know he feels strongly about his responsibilities to his job, his party and to the island. He was in horrendous pain this week and last week when he visited Government Buildings. I hope we conclude the agreement because it has set a deadline and I cannot continue to negotiate without the leader of nationalism and the Deputy First Minister. We must conclude discussions today and I hope people will remain focused.

I will clarify what we are trying to conclude today. There are three important elements; first, the number of departments and their titles so that we can be absolutely clear who gets what under the d'Hondt system — to put it crudely, it is to make sure that everyone gets a share of the spoils and that people will see their positions. Then we can say who will make up the executive when it is up and running next year; second, the make up of the North-South ministerial and implementation bodies. Many people are confused by these words; they mean the bodies that are legislated for and the bodies to be set up on an all-Ireland basis. For example, if we are talking about tourism, it will be tourism on an all-Ireland basis and legislated for in Westminster and in the Oireachtas, and third, there is co-operation. This means that in the North-South Ministerial Council ministers from the Executive and from this Government will be working together to make all these things work into the future. We are trying to negotiate these elements together because, since 2 November, I believed we would never finalise the agreements if we were to deal with them separately.

It was said in the other House that if we succeed that is good, and then we will move to another stage. After Christmas we would try to deal with the legislative measures I have mentioned, the Executive and the decommissioning issues, another phase of tortuous negotiations I have no doubt but at least it would be a clear indication of moving on. If we do not succeed we must not panic but I would be very disappointed and so would everyone else. As we all know with the North, it is not one day at a time but one step a week. It is a painfully slow and tortuous process but that is how it has to be and I believe it will be worth it in the end. I also want to send best wishes and thanks to Seamus Mallon for his huge commitment this week.

Mr. Manning

I welcome the Taoiseach to the House. I thank him for his full and informative account which has brought us up to date on the current state of developments. I want to pay special tribute to the Taoiseach because he has made an extraordinary contribution over the past year. He was a crucial player at all of the key stages. He made a contribution that was fearless in getting us to where we are here today. He built on the foundations of his predecessors, all of whom worked to getting us to the position where the Taoiseach helped to bring the Good Friday Agreement to a reality. I pay a very warm tribute to him for that.

I join with the Taoiseach in sending good wishes for a successful operation and speedy recovery to Seamus Mallon. Mr. Mallon is known to virtually everyone in these Houses. He was a Member of this House on one occasion and he was a member of various forums. We also know him as someone who was always there in the darkest hours, someone who has great staying power and a huge commitment. He is someone who has always worked through the political process and someone who believed in the primacy of politics, even when it was not easy to do so. Above all, Seamus Mallon is a consensus builder who is prepared to work step by step building up relationships with his opponents in social ways and other small ways so that when the big issues arise, a basis of trust has been built up. When the history of these times is written the great hero of our times will be Seamus Mallon who has been, and continues to be, a patriot and a parliamentarian of the very highest quality. On behalf of my party and myself I send our very best wishes for a successful operation, a very speedy recovery and we salute what he has done so far.

I can see why the Taoiseach is in some ways frustrated that things are not moving as quickly as he and everyone else would like. The people of the North who have endured so much for so long would like to see stability and certainty where people can return to the normal everyday boring, mundane things of politics. Sadly, we have not reached that stage yet. Anyone looking back and trying to put where we are into perspective will see just how enormous has been the progress in the last year when we think of how difficult it was during most of the previous 30 years; when we think of the great starts that did not lead to success, when we see the various steps taken along the way, then what has happened in the past year is truly extraordinary. Who would have thought one or two years ago that the Taoiseach being a frequent visitor to Stormont would become something we almost take for granted? Who would have thought that the sight of leaders of unionism coming south to talk to the political leaders in these Houses would become almost a normal everyday occurrence? That simply would have been inconceivable in the past. Who would have thought that David Trimble and Gerry Adams would meet in a businesslike manner even though they may not like each other? Who would have thought this would have been possible a year ago? Things will only become normal when Ian Paisley drinks his glass of bitter orange in the Members' bar here. Even though we have had a debate on the Pioneers earlier today I am sure Members would still welcome him here. When that day arrives, we will have reached full normality.

I want to tell the Taoiseach not to be frustrated or depressed by what is happening because the rate of progress over the past year has been extraordinary and we are very close to the end. At this stage what separates the parties is far less than what holds them together and the range of agreement is enormous. The momentum to complete the work is unstoppable.

Everyone knew when the Good Friday Agreement was signed that there would be setbacks and difficulties, but a framework was put in place and momentum was built up. That framework is strong enough to sustain all the difficulties which have arisen. The momentum established by President Clinton, our own Government, all the political leaders in the Republic and the British Prime Minister is still there and it is sufficiently strong to see this process to a successful conclusion. Perhaps this will not happen as quickly as we would all wish, but it will happen.

Other things have changed. Violence is no longer an option for anyone in the North. In all the talk of decommissioning no one seriously believes that the Provisional IRA wants or can return to using the gun and the bullet. The people have spoken. Their own communities will reject them if they try to do that. People now see that so much progress has been made by constitutional and political means and we are so close to a consensus that the very thought of any organisation now resorting to the old, despicable methods of violence is out of the question. The message should go forth from both Houses that any attempts by the so-called Real IRA or Continuity IRA to get back to these practices will be met in a most draconian way by the forces of law and order and by the authorities on both sides of the Border. That is what the people want and that is what they have voted for. They will not settle for less.

It is vitally important that the centre in the North holds. It is vitally important that, whatever breakdown in relationships or straining in relationships there were between the Unionist Party and the SDLP, these difficulties are solved immediately. If the parties in the centre hold then the Agreement can work. Those parties in the extremes will come in but they will only do so if the stability is there. It is vitally important that those relationships are restored and I hope they have been because these are the parties to whom most people look for stability and for the continuation of the process.

We have seen a many great things over the past year. We have seen the total normalisation of our relationships with Britain. The British Prime Minister correctly pointed out when he was here that Northern Ireland distorted what should be the normal relationships between two friendly nations who have a great deal in common, a relationship of equality between the two countries. In recent times we witnessed a willingness of parties on all sides, particularly the Fianna Fáil Party, to look at issues in a way in which they never looked at them before. Senior members in the Fianna Fail Party have had an enormous change in attitude when they begin to openly talk about the Commonwealth and the possibility of Ireland rejoining it. Many politicians in my party in the past, especially James Dillon, believed that the commonwealth was the best framework within which good relations could be brought about between the two parts of the island. They were thinking of the English speaking commonwealth where many Irish people were in senior positions in Australia, Canada and so on, but it did not work out that way. Perhaps Europe is now a more logical framework within which co-operation between North and South can be developed. The fact that the Commonwealth is being considered in this way indicates an opening of minds, which is welcome.

I want to look on the positive side and say that we have made enormous progress. The great prize is within the grasp of all those striving for it. I believe that this time next year we will be looking at a process that has been brought to a successful conclusion. Hopefully the day when Ian Paisley takes a drink in the Members' Bar in Leinster House may not be very far off.

Mr. Lanigan

I welcome the fact that the Taoiseach took time out from his busy schedule today to come to the Seanad. It is opportune that we have a debate on the current situation in the North of Ireland in the run up to Christmas. This year people in the North can look forward to a peaceful, happy and holy Christmas. I sincerely hope that what has happened since the Good Friday Agreement will bring peace and stability to the North and, indeed, to the whole island.

There have been setbacks since the Agreement was signed. There have been delays in the implementation of various strands of the Agreement. Nevertheless, great strides have been made and there must be continuance of discussions between the various parties North and South. Nothing that is good happens overnight. All those involved in negotiating a reasonable, peaceful end to the Good Friday Agreement will face delays and problems. It would be a mistake to think that one could change the attitudes, relationships and state of mind of people in a short few months. In various countries throughout the world peace is a thing of the past. People are experiencing great difficulties in places where attempts are being made to resolve conflicts, whether in Kosovo, Europe, the Middle East or Iraq. People must trust each other. Trust must be built up over time, it cannot be turned on like a tap.

Political parties in the South must make it known that they support those involved in negotiations in the North. I reiterate the feeling in the South for Séamus Mallon, not forgetting the work done by John Hume, David Trimble and others in the North. We cannot forget the work carried out by civil servants and advisers, people who worked late into the night to discuss the nuances of the Agreement. Those people have brought together the different strands of society in the North to a position where trust is now beginning to emerge. In the next few months the building up of that trust will bring together all the strands on which the Good Friday Agreement was presented to the Irish people. It is hoped the Agreement will bring peace and prosperity to the North of Ireland.

We must not forget the part played by President Clinton, his advisers and Senator Mitchell in bringing together all the strands. The President did a great amount of work in relation to the North of Ireland. He has, however, negated a lot of this good work by what he did last night in Iraq. Unfortunately, he could not bring President Netanyahu with him on the Middle-East negotiations and we do not know what will happen in Iraq.

I congratulate all those involved in the Good Friday Agreement negotiations. I hope that in the lead up to Christmas the wishes of the majority of the Irish people will be satisfied in terms of the implementation of the various strands of the Agreement. I thank the Taoiseach for allowing this debate to take place.

Mr. O'Toole

I wish to share my time with Senator Quinn.

It is important to put on record what has happened during the course of this year. I reiterate the tributes paid to the Taoiseach and to all those involved in the negotiations. What we have on this island at present is an overwhelming imperative for peace. That imperative was created by a democratic decision of the peoples of this island. This is something over which no one else has control. It is not in the gift of anyone to turn the clock backwards away from peace and towards violence. We should remind ourselves that every day of peace has been wrested from 30 years of violence. There has been eight months of peace apart from the tragic events of Omagh, and one or two others. Unfortunately, we are now in one of those unpredictable, but not unexpected, blips that happen during the currency of the Agreement.

We are now considering the narrow issue of decommissioning. We are expanding it a little by relating it to demilitarisation and so on. The way forward is to widen it more. Within Northern Ireland there is the North-South element and the east-west element. Perhaps we should develop the east-west approach a bit more. This has been the least discussed approach up to now. We do not know how it will relate to the new assemblies in Scotland and Wales. It seems to me that this move forward would give sustenance and encouragement and cause confidence building in terms of our relationship with the Unionist community.

On the possibility of Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth, I am sorry the Taoiseach has left because I would ask him to take that matter off the agenda. It might have been a good idea when the leader of the party opposite raised it 50 or 60 years ago. I want to put on the record that the Commonwealth is about as relevant to us now as the Organisation of African Unity, in other words, it has its own importance but it does not relate to this country. It is a meaningless, impotent and sterile organisation as far as this country is concerned and should be taken off the agenda. It has nothing to do with the past, future or present. It has relativity in all directions but it does not move us forward one inch.

I believe that the question of parity of esteem is important. I also believe we should keep stating the point that decommissioning is an aspiration but as long as the guns are silent and the bombs are not used — even while they remain a threat — people are in some sense safe from the day to day violence we knew and experienced over the last 30 years.

Apart from both islands approach, we need to look at the sub-governmental approach to broader bodies. I have recently been involved in a series of meeting with the Confederation of Irish Industries, IBEC and the trade union movement, ICTU in Belfast and Dublin, regarding ways in which we can move forward together. This has created a great sense of confidence building and a sense of community about shared and joint objectives. These things will put the other issues in a different context if we can all move forward together and in a sense of partnership. People involved in industry, trade unions, churches, sporting organisations all have to do their bit. The price of peace is very simply what people think is the price of peace, plus another little bit. If every person is asked what they are prepared to do for democratic stable peace on this island and if they say "This is how far I am prepared to go", then the answer is that you must go that quarter of an inch further. If everybody does that we will have achieved what we set out to do.

In conclusion, we should begin by trying to get a broader movement of people between North and South, recognition of professional qualifications, recognition of people's contribution and joint entry into third level colleges. The introduction of the euro could be another stumbling block we could have done without. As long as the UK remains outside, it creates another aberration in that process. We can welcome this year as being an extraordinary move forward with the Good Friday Agreement and let us hope next year is better.

Mr. Quinn

I spoke early last May to a large group of people in Chicago. I was asked to speak for five minutes and explain to them the position in Northern Ireland. It was a challenge and I did my best, but what impressed me was the number of letters I received at the time of the referendum from American people expressing how much they understood what Northern Ireland was about and what a huge step forward that that vote meant and why democracy will ensure that there will never be violence in Ireland again. These letters were from people who did not understand the Irish scene. We must not ever forget the enormous steps forward that have been taken. What has taken place this year was the result of courage by a number of people who, over the last few years, were willing to take their courage into their hands and attempt to solve this problem by going against advice from so many people.

At this meeting I asked a person what brought about their success, and after some thought he replied with a quote "Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, you are right." He was talking about success in business terms. However, what he was saying could be applied to a football match; if you say I have no chance of winning, then I have not. If we go into the match saying "we can win", then we will. I believe while courage was what was needed in the past, what we now need is confidence to go forward.

I am not as confident as other members that there will be no return to violence, but if we have confidence and courage to believe that we can achieve this — particularly those who are actively involved in this on a day to day basis — then between that courage and that confidence we can move towards actually achieving it.

I congratulate the Taoiseach on his words today. He talked about partnership, equality and mutual respect. He has shown that during the past year. I believe they are the foundations on what this Agreement and this step forward will take place.

Mr. Lydon

I want like to pay tribute to the commitment and work the Taoiseach has shown over the last year. He has to be commended on the difficult and hard work he has done. It is typical of his style and it has paid dividends in this case. As we approach the year's end we ask ourselves what has been achieved. In my opinion, much has been achieved. The Good Friday Agreement was a milestone in the history of the relationship between Britain and Ireland and the combination of determined and involved efforts by successful Governments, particularly those led by Fianna Fáil. We must continually remind ourselves that the Agreement is not static. It is not just a piece of paper that was signed and that everything from there on will run smoothly. The Agreement is dynamic. It is a process, not a product. It is an ongoing learning experience for everybody, in other words, it is essentially experiential. If this concept is not grasped then I believe much confusion arises.

The Government's commitment and attachment to the Agreement continues to command the highest priority and work is intensive with the British Government and all other parties involved to ensure that all elements of the Agreement are implemented. The implementation of the process is ongoing across all elements of the Agreement. The Northern Ireland Act which underpins in British legislation the constitutional, institutional, equality and human rights aspects of the Agreement is now on the British Statute Book. The criminal justice review and the international decommissioning commission continue to do their work while the Patten commission is progressing well and is consulting widely with both sides of the community in the North on the crucial issue of the future of policing and the reform of the RUC. This, to me, is one of the most crucial elements of this entire Agreement.

A central point of the whole Agreement is the implementation and operation of North/South bodies. As yet there is no agreement but intensive negotiations continue behind the scenes to end the impasse.

The whole issue of decommissioning and the formation of a shadow executive also remains unresolved and one inextricably linked to the North/South bodies. Senator O'Toole mentioned three things with which I agree. The first is the fact that although the guns are still there, they remain silent, and that is a step forward. There are a number of armies in the North, not just the Irish Republican Army, and when decommissioning occurs it must occur right across the board. I agreed with him when he stated there must be more emphasis on east/west rather than North/South links and the Taoiseach recently emphasised this in his speech in Liverpool. Senator O'Toole mentioned parity of esteem between the two equal nations. I agree with his comments on the Commonwealth which has nothing to do with us whatsoever. We are now in a dynamic Europe.

Given the overwhelming endorsement of the Agreement on both sides of the Border, all parties owe it to the people of Ireland to ensure that the terms as voted on are seen to be implemented and a new Dáil well and truly realised. I support all the work that has been done.

I wish to share my time with Senator Cassidy.

Mr. Cassidy

I join with the Taoiseach and Senator Manning in wishing Seamus Mallon a successful operation. He has done so much for the affairs in Northern Ireland over the last number of years. He was a distinguished Member of this House. I said on one occasion that he was probably the best speaker this House ever had. I wish his wife and family well during their time of great concern.

As one who lives on the Ulster Border I must say the Good Friday Agreement has given hope to people who live along the Ulster Border and in the province of Ulster. It has been eight months of tremendous progress, with the silencing of the guns and confidence building in our communities, sporting organisations and everyone involved in commerce. It is giving tourists a certain image of Ireland — that people can come here to a friendly destination, to a peace loving country. The previous image held by Australians, Americans and others was that there was trouble in one part of Ireland while there was none in the other. That image greatly damaged our tourism industry. However, they are now beginning to see the fruits of peace and there are signs that the coming year will be tremendous.

The day the entire island voted for the Agreement was historic. We could feel in our bones that something special was happening. Hopefully, Good Friday, the day on which the Agreement was concluded, will be a day we will cherish and never forget.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate. I also welcome the Taoiseach's visit to the Seanad to outline the current situation in Northern Ireland.

The Good Friday Agreement was concluded at a difficult time for the Taoiseach. His mother had just died but despite such personal difficulty he managed to conclude the Agreement with the parties involved. He deserves to be complimented on his achievement at such a time. The other parties involved should also be complimented, particularly John Hume and David Trimble who have since been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Both fully deserved the honour. It is gratifying that the two strands of opinion in Northern Ireland were recognised in this joint award. Both men are at the coalface of politics in Northern Ireland on behalf of their communities. Despite the extremely different views of these communities on many matters, the majority of the people have a common aspiration to live together in peace and harmony. That was clearly demonstrated in the referenda on the Agreement when the overwhelming majority of the people on this island voted for peace. The parties involved in this process must continue to focus on that fundamental issue.

This Agreement is of huge political significance. It is the result of years of discussion and negotiations in which many people were involved. The problem arose 75 years ago but its history dates to 500 years ago so attitudes are ingrained in the minds of the people. The move to bring people together to focus on peace and harmony and to work for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland is extremely important. If there can be continued confidence, belief and trust that peace is achievable, it will be achievable. Undoubtedly, there will be difficulties on the way but if people think positively and are sufficiently focused, the result will be peace and harmony and people working together for the betterment of their respective communities. I have confidence that this will happen.

A number of difficulties have arisen already, particularly with regard to decommissioning. Senator Lydon is correct that decommissioning must take place and that it is not a one sided affair. This issue is discussed as if only one group, a Nationalist group, has arms but there are arms on both sides. There must be a fairer discussion of this issue. I hope the parties involved will see the wisdom of making a token gesture of decommissioning. However, the fact that the guns are silent is a positive feature and we should focus on the positive, not the negative, features.

Politics is about people and, as it was once defined, is the art of the possible. This is a situation where the possible can be tested. With will, full commitment, a heightened sense of direction and the assistance which has been provided from outside these islands, there could be a successful conclusion to this process.

Like the Taoiseach, I would like to have seen greater progress in the implementation of the Agreement. It is disappointing that the executive, the British-Irish Council and the Ministerial Council are not yet in place. I hope that the politicians involved will recognise that politics is about people and that they must do what is best for the people so they can live together in peace and harmony. They will enjoy greater economic advancement if peace continues. It is fundamentally important that they keep that target in focus at all times.

It is a trying time for politicians. Indeed, I wish to send my good wishes to Seamus Mallon. He has given a huge commitment to politics in Northern Ireland. I thought he looked quite tired and stressed when he gave an interview at 1.30 a.m. during the negotiations when it was thought that everything had been signed and sealed. However, overnight it all changed and, on a personal level, that type of stress takes a toll on politicians, who are only human. I join my colleagues in wishing him well.

The Good Friday Agreement is the anchor that will hold the situation in Northern Ireland together. It is the formula under which progress can take place. The various bodies to be formed under the Agreement will be the vehicles for peace and the enablement of the communities to live together in harmony.

I hope everybody concerned, particularly those who at this time are creating unhelpful stirrings, will seriously reflect on their position and on what happened in Northern Ireland over the past 30 years. They should look to the next 30 years and consider whether they want to be part of a negative situation in Northern Ireland or if they want to take courageous and constructive positions and look positively to the future with a specific view of their island and how they want their people to live. If they do that and if they have faith and confidence in themselves, they will be successful in achieving their aim. All politicians on the island have a responsibility to ensure that anything they say or do will be said and done with a view to helping the process.

Mr. Costello

I congratulate the Taoiseach on the superb work he did on the Good Friday Agreement. His was a safe pair of hands in the negotiations on the Agreement. While I might disagree with him about many other areas of policy, the enthusiasm, ideas, vigour and vision he displayed were a great credit to him.

I also congratulate the two Nobel laureates, John Hume and David Trimble, for their contribution, as well as the Deputy First Minister, Séamus Mallon, who was very articulate in the negotiations. I acknowledge the release from prison of Danny McNamee, who exemplifies the impact of the Troubles. He has spent over a dozen years in prison although clearly he was innocent. It is good to see that situation reversed.

We are currently two months behind the deadlines that were set in the Good Friday Agreement. There is no executive, North-South Ministerial Council, joint implementation bodies or British-Irish Intergovernmental Council, despite two months having elapsed since the deadline for their establishment. It is dangerous to set deadlines because it is always difficult in situations such as this to meet them.

Progress has been made by the two sovereign Governments. The two Governments introduced legislation arising from the Good Friday Agreement. The British Government began the process of demilitarisation with the return of troops to barracks, the ending of the practice of the RUC carrying rifles — a good first step towards an unarmed police force — and the dismantling of the various fortresses in Northern Ireland.

It is a moot point that those people who have been elected to the Assembly with the brief of implementing certain aspects of the Good Friday Agreement unfortunately have not done so. They have not shown the same alacrity as the people of Northern Ireland who supported the Agreement in the referendum.

In relation to the remarks made about links to the Commonwealth, I agree entirely with those who say that we should not think of re-entering the Commonwealth under British leadership or in any other capacity. We should be looking at the provisos of the Good Friday Agreement, dealing with east-west relations and building the new legal entities in conjunction with those entities which are to be established in Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, and with Northern Ireland and the Republic. We would have a commonwealth of nations here with which we could interlink effectively under the umbrella of the European Union. That is the way we should go, not in the direction of the colonial British Commonwealth.

We should recognise that not everything is realisable within deadlines and should regard this process as a continuum. We should be pro-active in the sense of the George Mitchell Scholarship Fund which we approved here last week, through which we would invite American citizens to universities North and South where they could benefit from peace and reconciliation studies. We should look at the European Convention on Human Rights and recognise professional qualifications from either side of the Border. For these there are no deadlines, they are part of a continuum. All of us, North and South, can do our bit to ensure that what was written into the history books on Good Friday becomes a reality for all sides on this island.

Mr. Norris

I did not intend to speak but I was lured in by the contribution of my distinguished friend, Senator Costello. He seemed to wish to undermine the excellent idea that we should rejoin the Commonwealth. I know it is an excellent idea because I suggested it in this House about eight years ago.

Mrs. A. Doyle

That makes it excellent?

Mr. Norris

To my amazement, I met Éamon Ó Cuív in the corridor and he said that he agreed with every word. I remarked that his grandfather would be revolving at 78 rpm in his grave if he heard that. He replied that he would not, that his grandfather had regretted deeply that we left the Commonwealth because he felt that it cemented the break between the northern and southern sections. I seriously think this is an idea worth exploring. It certainly should not be dismissed. Senator Costello dismissed it in a reasonable way but there are others who dismiss it in ways which would antagonise a large number of people in Northern Ireland and even a few of us in the South.

The reason I think it is a good idea is that in order to solve the problem in Northern Ireland, the circle must be squared. It is a paradox. You must simultaneously satisfy two completely conflicting desires which are not altogether rational but which are part of an emotional complex. One tradition feels a thrill at "The Soldiers' Song", the Tricolour and Uachtarán na hÉireann while the other experiences exactly the same psychological surge at the prospect of her gracious majesty Queen Elizabeth II and the British national anthem. How do you resolve that?

It always seemed that the one thing which can be done is to explore the possibility of some loose federation. There would be a parliamentary institution in the North while we continue with this august institution and the two would be related in an all-island national framework with some degree of unification. Thus the Nationalist half of the population of the North need not feel isolated and could legitimately experience some kind of belonging and deal with the shibboleths of Irish Nationalism and Republicanism. Simultaneously, the Unionists, while they might be part of a unitary structure on the island as a whole, could retain legitimately their loyalty to the British crown and the traditions which go with that.

The question of rejoining the Commonwealth should be not written out entirely, particularly since the Secretary General of the Commonwealth, who was here last week, urged it as an idea which is worthy. The invitation is not coming from the British but from the other members of the Commonwealth.

I heard Senator Costello say that there should be co-operation between all the parts of the island, the Isle of Man and so on. We should not leave out the main constituent of Britain — England. If we leave out the English we could be accused of reverse discrimination.

We hear a great deal from Gerry Adams, who has proved himself to have some statesmanlike qualities, Danny Morrison and others about "their mandate". They have a mandate. Their mandate is 17 per cent and they should learn to accommodate themselves to that reality. In a democracy a mandate of 17 per cent is exactly that; it entitles them to 17 per cent of the positions and influence. The way they strut around they give the impression that their 17 per cent mandate, which is the largest they have ever achieved, puts them in the driving seat. It is time they learned they are not in the driving seat and the only thing which backs up their claim to particular positions is the whiff of cordite which still surrounds them. That is the reason people want decommissioning, realistic or not.

It would be worthwhile commissioning an academic study of the language structures employed by the various parties involved, particularly Sinn Féin and Unionist representatives. Their grammatical mechanics and selection of vocabulary offer a key to the psychology which might help us in dealing with them. There is a concentration of imperatives in the speech of people such as Gerry Adams when he says that "the British Government must do this". Paisley is the same. He says: "O'Neill must go, Chichester-Clarke must go". If you look at the heavy loading of certain moods and tenses, it would tell you a great deal about their psychology. This could then be shown to them. Those involved could say that they are not attacking them, but conducting an academic exercise to analyse language structures and this is how they come across.

Mrs. A. Doyle

I recommend Senator Norris, a Joycean scholar, as a specialist to carry out such a study.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. S. Brennan)

I thank Senators for their contributions. I wish Séamus Mallon a speedy recovery. He is a true gentleman and a great politician. In this season of goodwill, I hope progress will be made in the short term on the Northern issue. As the Taoiseach said, we want to get on with it because at the end of the day politics is not about making shapes on a tightrope, it is about delivering a service to the public and securing a lasting peace on this island.

Sitting suspended at 3.40 p.m. and resumed at 4 p.m.