The Order of Business will be items 1 and 2. On item 1, statements on the situation of the Kurdish population, contributions of spokespersons shall not exceed 12 minutes and all other Senators are not to exceed ten minutes. Senators may share time. Item 2, statements on genetically modified food will be taken at 2.30 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes and of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes. Senators may share time.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. Would the Leader ask the Minister for Finance to come into the House at the earliest opportunity – today if possible, otherwise at the beginning of next week – to explain the situation which now exists following the humiliating rejection of the Government's proposals by EUROSTAT yesterday? We need to see what we can salvage from the tatters the Government strategy is now in. Tribunals, once established, are outside the control of the Houses of the Oireachtas. However, they were set up by these Houses. I would like to voice my sense of unease at the increasingly shambolic way in which one of the tribunals is being run, with lengthy adjournments almost on a daily basis.
Criticism of the tribunals is not in order.
I am aware of that, but at the end of the day the taxpayers will have to pay the large bills being run up by the seeming inability of the tribunal to run its affairs in an efficient way.
People should be aware of how the tribunals are being run because these tribunals of inquiry have been established by the Oireachtas. I wish to say to the Leader that the operation of tribunals should be televised and open to the public. The taxpayer is entitled to know what is happening on behalf of the country. People should not be getting the information second-hand from actors acting out the part or from journalists interpreting what has been said. It was the intention of the Oireachtas that the taxpayer should have access to this inquiry, and the best way to have access is for people to be able to see what is taking place. Television cameras should be allowed into the tribunals. This would allow people to see what is taking place, make their minds up on the issue and, at least, know that the Oireachtas has done well by the taxpayer.
I will not allow the discussion on this matter to be widened. We must respect the separation of powers.
I thank the Cathaoirleach, leaders of the groups and Members of this House for making arrangements this morning for Members to attend the funeral of the late Dr. Pat Upton. I thank Members for their expressions of sympathy to his family and parliamentary colleagues.
On the Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Bill, will the Leader indicate when Second Stage and Committee Stage of the Bill will be taken? This very important Bill deserves a full debate, but it also requires substantial amendment. I would like to know the timetable for this legislative proposal
Will the Leader allow for item No. 15 on the Order Paper to be taken during this session? I raised this issue prior to the Christmas recess. The Bill will provide for the protection of shopworkers in a climate where, due to longer opening hours in supermarkets, they are required to work longer hours. This Bill seeks to give workers a choice of the hours they wish to work and it is important that it be taken during this session. The Leader indicated his agreement with the general principle I was seeking to advance in discussions prior to the Christmas recess. I would like the matter to be debated here.
Will the Leader ask the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance to publish the letter received by the Department of Finance from EUROSTAT regarding this country's application for Objective One status. There has been confirmation that the letter was received. In media reports today various spins were put on the Government's reaction to its contents. The letter should be laid before these Houses. I support the call for a debate on the issue, today if possible or, if not, at an early stage next week to ensure that regions such as my own which qualify for Objective One status receive it.
Tribunals of inquiry are established by the Oireachtas and, therefore, we have a direct interest in what takes place in them. I think I am correct in saying they are not subject to the sub judice rule in the same way as the courts. If they were, we would not hear reports every day on radio, nor would we have seen some of the articles that have appeared in the newspapers. I agree with Senator O'Toole that the tribunals should be open to public scrutiny and that they should be televised. Public opinion on the beef tribunal would have been different if it had been televised. It is central to democracy that citizens have access to tribunals and, indeed, to the courts. Court proceedings should also be televised. Much of this has to do with the legal profession creating an air of mystery around its activities. Its members are highly paid and not subject to accountability as are the rest of us.
I will reiterate comments I made yesterday regarding Objective One status. It was quite right that the Government attempted to secure maximisation of the area to be designated Objective One status. If it did not do so the entire country would be designated Objective One in transition and there would be a lower level of support. Unfortunately, it appears that the maximisation of the area involved has not been agreed by EUROSTAT, but, hopefully, a lesser area will be agreed. In addition, it is evident that some system of regional government must operate in the area that is designated Objective One status.
I thought the Leader would have made a statement this afternoon outlining the reasons for EUROSTAT's apparent rejection, because it is understood that the Government put in some response yesterday—
Senator, we cannot have a debate on the matter now. A debate on the question of Objective One status has been sought and if you wish to support that debate, do so by all means.
I did yesterday, but there has been a great deal of misplaced and unjustified criticism of one or two counties. County Kerry is only at 64 per cent of the EU GDP average. I will listen attentively to the Leader when he replies.
I refer to the matter raised by Senators Manning and O'Toole. I totally respect your ruling, a Chathaoirleach, on separation of powers, but I very much support Senator O'Toole. The tri bunals are open to the public with huge numbers attending daily and they should be televised.
It has been brought to my attention that many houses built in the past contained asbestos lining and slabs. This material very often is not in good condition and is a huge danger to health. What are the Government's proposals on this? As I understand it, no grants whatsoever are available to anyone who wishes to replace this faulty material in their homes. How many homes contain such material? What are the proposals for their replacement?
We have been talking about tribunals and planning for a long time in the House but I am seeking a debate on the problems associated with planning applications. If one looks out the window of the Seanad, one can count 27 cranes. The dominant feature on the landscape, no matter which town one passes through, is cranes which are involved in the construction of new buildings. This has put huge pressure on county and urban district councils and, equally, on councillors and officials. The problems associated with the growth in the economy are enormous and it is time we looked again at the way planning applications are processed and the staffing levels within county councils to deal with the huge increases in such applications. Councillors who must deal with major planning applications should have the technical advice available to them that is available to officials and developers. Developers in certain areas are rampaging through the planning laws.
We are not debating the issue now, Senator. I assume you are seeking a debate on the matter.
If you would allow a debate now, I would accept that.
Regretfully, I cannot.
A previous Government, of which Senator Coghlan's party was a member, withdrew the grants for asbestos-based building materials.
There were no grants.
The decision of EUROSTAT has been mentioned and I concur fully with Senator Dardis. However, a debate on this issue should be broadened to include all EU matters because, undoubtedly, there is a great deal of concern among the public, for example, with regard to the delays in approving the incentives for the commercial aspect of urban renewal. There should be a debate on this issue because Ireland is still a peripheral nation. I have heard Members here and in Opposition parties elsewhere state that the country is performing well economically and is now very wealthy. In fact, it is still very peripheral and that is true for many sectors of the economy.
I support the call for a debate on the financial implications of the tribunals for the taxpayer. I have raised before in the House the cost of legal fees. It is timely that there would be a debate on this issue because what is happening will impact severely on the taxpayer. With the permission of the Cathaoirleach, that debate could be widened to include the compensation culture fuelled by the legal profession. The Army has been much maligned because of the number of claims soldiers have submitted, but people have failed to acknowledge the manner in which many solicitors have touted for business from people in the Army. For that reason, I would like an early debate on the matter.
Will the Leader emphasise to the Minister for Education and Science the need which exists in special schools catering for children with physical and associated learning disabilities? The Minister made an announcement last November that special provision was being made in this area. However, it appears the focus may just be on mainstream schools at present rather than special schools, where the care worker to child ratio is something in the region of 1:30. With the child protection regulations now in place, which themselves bring an additional resource requirement, the Minister should refocus his attention on special schools.
I support Senator Walsh's comments regarding tribunals and the many matters at EU level concerning this country. We are told of the outrage caused by the activities which led to the tribunals. There is also outrage about the spending of public money on them. Will the Leader inform the House at a future date, for example next week, of the cost per day, taking the drama of yesterday as an example?
I lend my support to a debate on the new regions to be established for the purposes of retaining Objective One status. I agree with Senators Dardis and Coghlan. I would like to know where Counties Clare and Kerry fit into the equation and to what part of the country they belonged when the case for Objective One status for the Border, midlands and west was rejected?
These matters will be relevant to the debate when it takes place.
I am disappointed that sections of the media stated no survey was conducted for County Kerry because it was linked with Cork. A separate case was made for Kerry and a detailed analysis carried out.
By Deputy Healy-Rae.
The county is well under the GNP level criterion.
Will the Leader allow a debate on enlargement of the European Union? It is a matter I have raised before and I am sure the Leader will facilitate me when he gets the chance. Enlargement will have profound effects for not only the economy but also the social fabric of Ireland.
Senator O'Toole called for the televising of tribunals. There is not enough comedy on television and a good laugh in the evening would help everyone.
Senators Manning, Gallagher, Dardis, Coghlan, Walsh, Callanan and Dan Kiely called on the Minister for Finance to come to the House for a debate on the position in which we find ourselves regarding Objective One status. I will try my best to have this debate in the next week or so, and as a matter of urgency.
Senators O'Toole, Dardis, Callanan and Lydon expressed their opinion on the possibility of future tribunals being televised. We can have a debate on that at the earliest opportunity also.
Senator Gallagher asked about the local elections Bill. I understand it will come before the House in the next ten days. With regard to the item on the Order Paper, I certainly will do everything I can to have this before the House at the earliest possible opportunity.
Senator Coghlan and Senator Lanigan called for a debate on houses with asbestos lining and slabs in the roofs. This would be appropriate to Private Members' time. As Senator Coghlan's party has Private Members' time next week, perhaps he can convince his Leader to have this debated.
Senator Kett called for a debate on special schools for children with physical disability and associated learning disabilities. I will facilitate the Senator's request.
I promised Senator Lydon and the House a debate on the enlargement of the European Union and it will take place in the next session.
Order of Business agreed to.