The proposed Order of Business is No. 1, Criminal Justice (Safety of United Nations Workers) Bill, 1999, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. I am proposing that we allow 15 minutes for spokespersons and ten minutes for other speakers. This will be followed by No. 2, Statements on the Non-Implementation of EU Directives, on which I am proposing 20 minutes for spokespersons and 15 minutes for speakers thereafter.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreeable. Will questions be allowed following statements on the non-implementation of EU directives? A 15-minute question and answer session with the Minister should be allowed. It would be a valuable way of obtaining more elaboration on an issue which is rather contentious. Statements are the least satisfactory way of getting information. Last week we had statements on immigration policy and I found it very unsatisfactory that we were not in a position to question the Minister about what he had said. Will the Deputy Leader consider including a question and answer session as part of today's business?
I welcome the Order for Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (Safety of United Nations Workers) Bill, 1999, which will follow the Order of Business. I have previously raised in the House a related issue, Ireland's ratification of the UN convention to establish an international criminal court. Ireland signed that convention in Rome in July 1998 but it has not yet been incorporated into domestic law. For the convention to come into force it must be ratified by at least 60 UN member states, but that figure has not yet been reached. We should provide a lead in that area by ratifying the convention. The Leader should provide time after the Christmas recess for a debate on the ratification of the UN convention to establish an international criminal court. Such a debate could take place ahead of the relevant legislation being published by the Minister. The House should have an opportunity of discussing the matter so that Members can make their views known to the Minister.
I am happy enough with today's Order of Business. I would, however, draw the attention of the House to the fact that the Government has decided not to go ahead with the sale of ICC Bank. Time has been allocated on Thursday for debating Second Stage of the ICC Bank Bill, 1999. I am suggesting to the Acting Leader that we should use that time for a debate on mental health. Senator Henry has been seeking such a debate for a long time but we have not had time for it. Thursday could be the ideal opportunity for the debate on the assumption that the ICC Bank Bill will not proceed.
Alternatively, we could ask the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Kitt, to address the House. He could use that opportunity to correct what I am sure is a misquotation following the breakdown of the WTO negotiations in Seattle last week. The Minister of State was quoted – incorrectly, I hope – as saying he was rather pleased that he had managed to protect the Irish farming industry, without taking into account all the other implications of the WTO conference's breakdown. Ireland is a trading nation and has many more hats to wear than heretofore. Apart altogether from the big North-South divide, we have much more to gain from trading and encouraging such trade to take place, and we should be supporting that.
Will the Deputy Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children whether he is waiting for the British to decide if we can have beef on the bone again? Apparently, the British are to announce this week that they will permit beef on the bone to be sold. Ireland has had no problem whatsoever with beef from cattle under the age of 30 months, yet as far as we can see the Minister is waiting for the British to decide whether we will be allowed to consume beef on the bone. The Deputy Leader should ask the Minister for Health and Children to take steps on his own behalf, rather than waiting for the British to tell us what we may eat.
We also support the Order of Business. I am seeking clarification from the Deputy Leader of the House as to whether the ICC Bank Bill will go ahead on Thursday considering the shambles surrounding the sale of the ICC Bank. He should clarify that as soon as possible.
I support the call for a debate on the report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals. This is a matter of growing concern within the community. The debate has been sought for quite a long time by Senator Henry and we can no longer afford to ignore the report.
Will the Deputy Leader bring forward as a matter of urgency a debate on Government child care policy, considering that many thousands of mothers are being driven from their homes to take up employment?
I am reluctant to interrupt Senator O'Meara, but there is a motion on the Order Paper which will be taken in Private Members' time tomorrow evening. These points can be made on that motion. We should not pre-empt the debate on that motion on the Order of Business today.
Thank you. I was referring specifically to the Government's policy on that matter.
Will the Deputy Leader arrange for an urgent debate on Grozny, from where we have seen horrifying pictures recently? The unfortunate people there are living like animals in holes in the ground. The threat by Russia to annihilate a whole community unless it deserts its homes is against all decency, civil rights and accepted international standards. I do not understand why the international community remains so silent. The rebuke today is too mild and sends the wrong signals. Our voice may not be strong and we may not be backed by military might in this case, but all will be judged at the bar of history if we do not help these people immediately.
I endorse what Senators Quinn and O'Meara said about the need to discuss the ICC. We should discuss that serious shambles brought about by the Government if we are not to debate the Bill tomorrow. More importantly, the Leader should provide time for a debate on the apparent complete breakdown in the democratic system in last week's budget.
I will not allow any discussion on the Order of Business of last week's budget.
I am not—
There is a Private Members' motion tabled for tomorrow evening and an amendment to that motion. We cannot pre-empt or anticipate that debate.
I could not agree with you more. I am talking about the democratic deficit. What we should be discussing is not the budget – if you had not interrupted me, a Chathaoirligh, I could have continued with this – but the incredible power wielded by IBEC and ICTU. They have far greater power than the backbenchers on the other side of the House, who should have an input into such matters but have none.
Senator Ross is attempting to subvert my ruling.
I was going on to say that the Seanad, Government and backbenchers are being given the role of political eunuchs while IBEC and ICTU continue to wield this power.
Senator Ross will have to find another way to raise these matters. It is not in order to raise these matters on the Order of Business.
I have already raised it and I do not wish to raise it in another forum.
I do not know whether the important foreign affairs matter I want to raise was raised last week – and you may interrupt me, a Chathaoirligh, and tell me to be quiet if it was – but I presume it can be raised if Grozny can. We should debate the issue of Turkey becoming a member of the European Union. It is a very serious issue for us. As long as Turkey continues to inflict capital punishment for any offence, whether political or not, I suggest this House sends a message to the Minister for Foreign Affairs that we do not encourage it and we oppose its membership of the European Union.
The same as the United States.
The Independent Radio and Television Commission announced today that it will be looking for takers for new licences to provide radio and television programmes in the Cork region. I am a little confused because last week RTE announced the closure of the local radio station in Cork. What is happening? Can we get an explanation from the relevant Minister of the priorities involved? I feel RTE is deliberately attempting to create a white elephant in Cork. For example, Union Quay was a station in Cork for many years but changed two years ago, at enormous cost, to—
I must explain to Senator Cregan that I received a request from a Senator to raise this matter on the Adjournment. I could not accept that motion because it is a matter for RTE rather than the Minister. Senator Cregan has made his point.
I appreciate that, while there is a motion down to be considered, the Cathaoirleach must refuse it because it did not get priority. Why is one authority recommending something while the RTE Authority wants something else to close?
It is not a matter for the Order of Business.
It is a conflict that I do not like. The relevant Minister should explain to both Houses what is going on.
I could not help but wonder, while Senator Ross was speaking, whether there was still time to save this Seanad from the political bordizo. One of the ways we could show that we are relevant and that we mean business is by ensuring that statements elicit information and we could have a proper exchange of information between spokespersons, individual Seanadóirí and the Minister concerned. In that regard I support the request by Senator Connor, my colleague and Deputy Leader of the Opposition, that following the statements on the EU directives this afternoon we have at least 15 minutes to question the Minister on specific issues. This is not political in a party political sense because there are directives that have failed to be transposed into Irish law by several Governments. It is only political in as much as the Government of the day has to answer the questions and take responsibility for the present situation. It could be helpful if we could tease out some important areas, particularly environmental areas, where we are "in trouble" with the Commission in terms of our laxity in transposing directives into Irish law.
I also support the call for a debate on Turkey's application for accession. With regard to the suggestion that the Seanad is effectively a political eunuch, I do not agree that we need be, but the impression is sometimes given. If we could show the relevance of this House by debating national or EU issues and use it as a forum to deliver EU issues, then people would pay more attention. The media would pay more attention and the message would get out about the excellent work carried out in the Seanad.
I remind Senator Doyle that we had a constructive debate on the role of the Seanad last week.
I read about it.
Those points could have been made in that debate.
I have made these points before about the relevancy of the Seanad over many years. I am being consistent.
It is not in order to make them now because they are not relevant to the Order of Business.
Only in support of my colleague, Senator Connor.
The rules are different in the European Parliament. I support Senator Ó Murchú's call for a debate, or at least to put some pressure on the Minister with regard to the situation in Grozny. What is happening there is appalling. I will amplify a little on what he said. Today there were reports that the Russian Government has instructed the citizens of Grozny to leave en masse. For where? If they do not get out they will be bombed into the earth. This is an administration that is run by a drunken buffoon.
I would like time to be made available for a short debate on the continuing problem in East Timor because it is easy for us to assume that all is well there. We all praise the wonderful spirit of rebuilding that is going on but we are also aware of the tragic situation in the camps in West Timor and the fact that medical supplies and UN personnel are being prevented from reaching these people and that they are dying at an alarming rate.
I join in the call for a debate on the accession of Turkey. However, I disagree with Senator Ross when he stated that they are committing murder and atrocities or that there are atrocities being committed which should preclude them from getting into the EU.
These are points which can be made during the debate.
Within Europe at present there are people who have committed more atrocities all over the world.
That is fine.
There are people selling arms all over the world from within Europe and they should be excluded from the EU. Maybe we could bring Turkey in and teach them a lesson as well.
Hear, hear. Bomb Switzerland.
It would be more relevant to have a debate on the euro and find out where it is going. Senator Ross might be able to give the House the benefit of his knowledge of international monetary affairs if we could discuss what is happening to the euro, who is in control and where it is sending us.
We are all in favour of the euro.
A large number of Irish people work abroad in peacekeeping and development and before Christmas the House should debate the good work which these people are doing for others.
A motion was circulated to Members signed by four distinguished Senators concerning single income families and the individualisation of tax bands. I wonder if those Senators would consider withdrawing this motion, given the current situation and in the interests of prudence.
That motion is on the Order Paper for Private Members' time tomorrow and the Senator's party has submitted an amendment to the motion. Is the Senator seeking to submit an amendment of his own to this motion?
No—
I have ruled that I will not allow any discussion on matters relevant to the debate which will take place on that motion tomorrow.
A Chathaoirligh, you know that I always respect your rulings. The people are sovereign. If this is Government policy the matter should be put to a constitutional amendment and we will let the people decide.
Will the Deputy Leader inquire if there is any indication of the appointment of school attendance officers for the greater Dublin area? We are all concerned about truancy and this must be the fifth time I have asked for a realistic intervention through the appointment of these officers. We should not expect gardaí in heavily populated areas to carry out this work.
I would like a debate on broadcasting and television but, a Chathaoirligh, you seemed to suggest that this would not be possible. I do not know what powers the Independent Radio and Television Commission has, but it does not seem to be in control of events and there are many pirate radio stations. Illegal radio and television stations are transmitting programmes which are detrimental to family life.
I am grateful to Senators for tabling the motion regarding measures recently introduced by the Government and we look forward to tomorrow's debate. I support Senator Ó Múrchú's comments on the situation in Grozny. I have seen the pictures and the situation is very depressing. However, the remarks made by another speaker about the political leader of the Russian people do not help the people of Grozny.
Senator Norris is right.
I am right and the sooner the Russian people get rid of him the better.
Senators Connor and Avril Doyle raised the issue of questions and answers. This has not been ordered for today but I have no objection if the Minister is willing to take questions and answers at the end of the debate. That is not to say that the Senators' request will be facilitated but we will see if it can be done. I agree that the House should debate the ratification of the convention on the international criminal court and we will try to arrange for such a debate as soon as possible after Christmas.
I have no reason to believe that the legislation on the sale of ICC Bank will not come before the House on Thursday morning. In the event that this does not happen I will suggest that the Whips meet and that we discuss the issues mentioned by Senators Quinn, O'Meara and Ross on mental health or the WTO. I agree the WTO is important for trading countries. I understand the protests in Seattle although I do not sympathise with the violent nature of some of them. There are profound implications for us and it is important we debate the issue. I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, will be available to come to the House if we need to reschedule the business to discuss this issue.
I note the comments on beef on the bone. I am sure all Senators believe Irish beef is perfectly safe to eat. Senator Quinn is correct about the age of the beef. I have no difficulty eating beef on the bone. Senator O'Meara referred to child care policy. I reject the statement that this or any Government would drive people from their homes. That type of emotive language is not helping this debate.
That is what people think.
I hope that when we debate the issue tomorrow evening we will be able to do so in a calm and civilised manner and—
Not a chance.
—shed more light than heat on the subject. Senators Ó Murchú, Norris and Doyle referred to Grozny and Chechnya and I share their horror at what is taking place there. This is a humanitarian crisis of huge magnitude. It is important we express our horror and intervene in whatever way we can to alleviate the situation. I will convey the comments of Senators to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. We should debate the issue but it is a question of finding time.
I note Senator Ross's speech on the breakdown of the democratic system, on which he can expand tomorrow evening. Perhaps his comments were shaped by the fact that Senator O'Toole is not here to speak on behalf of the trade union movement. Social partnership is important.
On a point of order, it is out of order to refer to the absence of a member?
I note the Senator's point of order.
Senator Dardis is absent minded.
Perhaps. With respect to Senator Norris, I am aware of my gender and sexuality. There seems to be some doubt on the other side about the precise sexual status of the House.
Senators Lanigan and Ross and others referred to Turkey. There are strict criteria for accession to the European Union, including having a democratic system. I am opposed to any country imposing capital punishment.
Hear, hear.
There should be no capital punish ment, even for capital crimes. However, these matters are regulated and accession cannot take place without the criteria being met. Senators Cregan and Rory Kiely referred to broadcasting matters. The Broadcasting Bill is before the Dáil and will come before this House when there will be an opportunity to debate the issues involved.
I dealt with Senator Avril Doyle's query about the questions and answers on item 2. It is a matter for the Minister's agreement.
Which Minister will be taking it?
I cannot say yet.
Beware.
I agree with Senator Norris it is important we do not forget what is taking place in East Timor. Senator Norris has made contributions on this issue whenever we have debated it. The House has a record of being very concerned about East Timor and supportive of the people's right to self-determination and self-governance. We should debate the issue. I congratulate Tom Hyland on his recent award.
Hear, hear.
He has been to the forefront in defending human rights in East Timor. Senator Lanigan referred to the euro. I have no difficulty with debating that issue. The process has been well established and I am not sure what can be done to change matters. Senator Lanigan is correct about recognising the contribution of Irish people abroad.
I assure Senator Coghlan there is no possibility of the Private Members' motion being withdrawn. There will be every opportunity to debate the issues in full tomorrow evening.
I respectfully submit that the matter raised by Senator Ridge regarding the schools attendance officer is more appropriate to the Adjournment debate or by way of a letter to the Minister. However, I will make inquiries in the matter.
Order of Business agreed to.