Today's Order of Business is No. 1 and No. 20, motion 13. On No. 1, the Comhairle Bill, 1999, Second Stage shall be taken today, with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 20 minutes and of all other Senators not to exceed 15 minutes. No. 20, motion 13 shall be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. and business shall resume thereafter, if not previously concluded.
Order of Business.
Will the Leader of the House arrange, at the earliest convenient time, a debate on the events in Northern Ireland? There have been debates here in the past when there was good news about Northern Ireland and we were happy to share in and support those happy or helpful events. Now there is bad news from Northern Ireland and many Members of this House would like to discuss the matter. Our debates have always been helpful and constructive. This is the right time to have a debate and this is the appropriate place to have it. I ask for a debate as soon as possible.
I raise a question on No. 2 on the Order Paper, the Shannon River Council Bill, to which I would like an answer, maybe not today but tomorrow, and which the Leader may want to consider. Last week, the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government said that the Government proposed to ask that this Bill be referred to the Joint Committee on Public Enterprise and Transport. That came as a bolt from the blue for Members. There are a number of questions arising which the Leader should answer before we take the business tomorrow.
First, why refer the matter to the Joint Committee on Public Enterprise and Transport? Surely a committee which deals with the Office of Public Works or the Department of the Environment and Local Government would be the appropriate committee. Second, is the Minister asking to have Committee Stage taken at that committee? If so, the committee would then become a select committee of the Dáil and Senators would be excluded from debating Committee Stage of a Seanad Bill. That clearly would not be suitable. Alternatively, is the Minister suggesting that the Bill be parked in that committee where it can be delayed further? Is this a delaying tactic? This would be unacceptable to all sides of the House. I ask the Leader to find out if this is the case. All Members wish the Bill to proceed to Committee Stage in this House and whatever flaws are in the Bill can be sorted out there. It is a Seanad Bill.
Hear, Hear.
Yes.
I hope, in the interests of the House and in its protection, the Leader will resist any attempt by the bureaucracy to have this Bill sidetracked.
I support Senator Manning on this matter. We should stand behind the Leader on this and not let him be thrown around by Government types.
Heavyweights.
It is time for the Leader of the House to do the bidding of the House and respond to the views of the House. The fine speeches made by his side of the House last week made a deep impression all round. There is no precedent for sending this matter to a committee of this type which does not seem to have jurisdiction over the area of the Shannon. That is not appropriate. Neither is there a precedent for dealing with Committee Stage of a Seanad Bill in a committee. These issues relate to the business of the House and must be dealt with on that basis. The Government should do as was promised last week. It should examine this Bill, make the necessary changes and bring it back to this House for Committee Stage debate.
Will the Leader tell the House when the debate on the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness will be resumed? Positive things were said about the programme last week and it is important that the views of Members on both sides of the House be heard. The programme was negotiated partly by the incoming general secretary of the Labour Party and I am sure we can look forward to that party's support for the programme. The debate will ensure that Members of the House influence public debate on this issue.
Last week the Leader indicated his willingness to invite the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, to the House to outline her proposals for Aer Lingus. She has indicated to me privately that she would be happy to do that. This should be done, although I agree with Senator Manning that a debate on Northern Ireland is more urgent and should be held first.
Senator O'Toole has referred to the debate on the national agreement. Will the Leader tell the House when the debate will be resumed? Although the incoming general secretary of the Labour Party was involved in the discussions on the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness, his involvement related to the community and voluntary pillar. That sector is well catered for at present.
Has there been a split even before he begins the job?
Our concerns are with the content of the programme, which has perhaps been negotiated by other negotiators, not with the process. Members would like to have a say on that matter. When will the debate be resumed?
I support Senator Manning in asking for a debate on Northern Ireland. I have called for such a debate over the last weeks. This House has been particularly sensitive to the question of the timing of such a debate and we have agreed to delay it for some time. However, we seem to be the only people who show such sensitivity. The question merits a debate at this time of increased recrimination and the disastrous decision of the IRA to disengage from the de Chastelain commission places the matter back in crisis. I wish the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister well in their discussions today. A debate on Northern Ireland would be merited next week.
I echo Senator Quinn's call for a debate on inflation. He has been proved correct and inflation is rapidly increasing. Some of the taxation measures of the last budget which favour those already well off will fuel inflation. This matter is of considerable concern.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Public Enterprise to come to the House and make a statement on public transport? Dublin ground to a halt yesterday.
I thought the opposite was the case.
It was never more free-flowing.
We experience transport chaos every day in Dublin. The total absence of bus transport yesterday added to the difficulties which are frequently raised in this House, such as those relating to taxis and hackneys, quality bus corridors, Luas—
These are matters which can be raised in the course of the debate which the Senator is seeking.
I was merely justifying my call for a debate.
I wish to raise a matter with the Leader regarding wheelchair users on Iarnród Éireann trains. While I appreciate the investment the Government has made and continues to make in the rail network, I must take serious issue with Iarnród Éireann regarding their lack of facilities for wheelchair users, particularly on trains travelling from the west. This matter was brought home to me at the Irish Wheelchair Association's annual general meeting in my county last week.
Another reason for a plan.
It is inappropriate that wheelchair users can only be accommodated in the dining car or in the passages between carriages. I ask the Leader to bring this matter to the attention of the Minister for Public Enterprise. I ask that an instruction be given to Iarnród Éireann to provide facilities for wheelchair users on all its trains and I call on the Minister to insist on this.
For those of us who live in the city rather than in the outer suburbs of Sean McDermott Street, the streets seemed to be much freer yesterday. It makes a good argument for getting as many buses as possible off the streets.
Hear, hear.
Nothing could have demonstrated better how correct the Minister is to put the Luas under ground on the north-south axis. It is about time we did it on the east-west axis as well and I look forward to her doing that. That would clear the streets better than anything I can think of.
I join Senator Manning in calling for a debate on the North. It is time we had our say. There are things that need to be said and perhaps this is the only House in which they will be said. If we look at the difference between Sinn Féin/IRA and the loyalists, the latter apologised to people for the carnage they created, they appointed somebody to the de Chastelain Commission in February 1997, they have surrendered token arms. That is very important. The others have done nothing of this. They have played a poker game. We heard from Gerry Adams they were going to jump together – Trimble jumped and Adams is sitting on the fence laughing at him.
These points can be made in the debate which has been sought.
I stand reproved. I also join Senator Manning regarding another matter. I am so innocent that I did not see what might be afoot with regard to the referring of the Shannon River Council Bill. It has raised a very important point that the Leader should look into, that is, the way in which Members of this House are disbarred from sitting on select committees. It is outrageous. There is also an Oireachtas Select Committee on Foreign Affairs. I see no reason Members of this House should be excluded from it.
I am sure the House would wish to congratulate the people of Zimbabwe on the resounding answer they gave to the appalling dictator Mugabe, who was openly described by a member of his own parliament as a trickster.
I too support the call for a debate on the North. This is a particularly sensitive time for the peace process and nothing will be served by recriminations. They will only make a bad situation worse. If we had a debate it would give us an opportunity to remind ourselves of what has been achieved to date and the risks we now face. It would also be important for us to give responsible leadership for the common good and to ensure that we do not follow the same road as people who may be trying to score political points.
I call on the Leader to ask the Taoiseach to come here to discuss the Government's decentralisation programme. The Government is committed to decentralisation but it does not seem to have a proper plan in place. It seems to be taking place willy nilly. Perhaps the Taoiseach could come here and state what Departments will be decentralised and how it will be done. This is an important issue for the rest of the country.
I too support the call for a debate on the North. There is never an optimum time for having it. It was proper for us to show some restraint while discussions were going on in camera, but they have now moved into the open and there is a danger that the agenda will be set by people outside the political process. There is a broad public opinion which I support and which my fellow Senators are well placed to reflect.
Will the Leader of the House ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development when he intends to amend the regulations relating to the importation of domestic animals and pets to bring them into line with those applying throughout the European Union and, in particular, with the changes made in the United Kingdom to allow tourists bring their pets with them on holiday? It would be ridiculous if a different arrangement were to apply here from that in Northern Ireland.
The comments of Senator Hayes reflect the genuine desire of Members to have a debate on Northern Ireland. Restraint can be exercised but it is important that we are given an opportunity to express our views and genuine concerns. By having a debate we can show the value of diversity of opinion by highlighting the strongly held views of our constituents. I, therefore, support the call for a debate on the matter.
Concern has been expressed about the way the Shannon River Council Bill has been handled. As one of its promoters, it was my clear understanding last week that the principle of the Bill was being accepted by all sides. This issue has been debated in the past. The Government's response, however, was considered to be very cynical; it kicked for touch by referring the Bill to a committee at which Members will not have an opportunity to respond. I believe the Leader of the House would not support such a move and I expect him to act to ensure it does not happen.
I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland. I sometimes think it was a pity Mo Mowlam was withdrawn at such an important time. I pay tribute to Mr. David Ervine for being so honest on "Morning Ireland". His comments were very fair. In doing so he took the high ground.
Can we have a debate on the serious issue of coastal erosion? In my area a good golf course which I walked recently is being lost to the sea. I play a lot of golf and golf courses throughout the country are in danger of losing a lot of land through erosion. I cannot understand that the environmentalists are not talking about this matter on which we should have a debate to see if anything can be done about it.
According to a recent report we have become too hygiene conscious. The heading was, "Dirt prevents disease." The incidence of asthma and other diseases has increased enormously and the reason is that we are so clinically clean that we have no resistance to bugs to which previous generations were immune. Perhaps we have gone over the top and it is time we took the middle ground by cutting out some of the farcical nonsense of over-cleanliness.
I wish to refer to three matters, two of which I have mentioned before. The reason I ask the Leader of the House to consider them is that the Seanad could have a special role as a watchdog in this area. One of these matters is the intergovernmental conference starting on Monday. Let us remind ourselves of what happened in the past. This will probably end up with a treaty and referendum here and, as in the past with referenda, we will discover that nobody knows what we are talking about. We have not taken the appropriate steps and the public is lost. There is a role for the Seanad in this area. If we debate what is happening in the intergovernmental conference we can see what is happening and keep abreast of matters so that they do not come as a surprise later.
The second matter is inflation, to which Senator Costello referred. A monthly watch should be kept on this and the Seanad should be the watchdog in this regard. This is necessary. I have asked for it before and the Leader said we can find the opportunity to debate it. However, the situation has now become very serious. Yesterday's figure of 4% was described by The Irish Times as a little frightening, but it is not a little frightening, since it is by far the highest in the EU, it is scary. It is in danger of threatening our whole success story and the Seanad should look at this on a monthly basis.
I recently referred to the hackers' attack on the Internet and asked the Leader to ask the Minister concerned whether our law agencies have the legal framework to handle this matter. Yesterday President Clinton called the chief executives of Internet and e-mail companies to the White House to see what could be done to protect the United States. We have set a target for ourselves of becoming leaders in this area in Europe. Let us make sure we do not fall foul by being unprepared for this. Has the Leader heard anything from the Minister regarding my question as to whether we have the legal framework to handle this?
I seek a debate on rural development with particular emphasis on the future of the Leader groups. These groups are concerned as there is no direction as to their future and people are concerned that jobs may be lost. We talk about rural development and there is a huge number of projects on line, but it is important to discuss this matter thoroughly. I appreciate the Government's commitment of £55 million to rural development, but this debate is urgently needed and I ask the Leader to arrange it as soon as possible.
I echo the views of other speakers who have called for a debate on Northern Ireland. It is about time we debated it and brought the facts into the open. As Senator Maurice Hayes said, we should not let the debate into the backrooms, where ordinary people may be disenfranchised. We are the voice of the people in many respects.
I ask the Leader to speak to the Minister for Public Enterprise about what happened in Dublin yesterday. It was unforgivable. The people of Dublin were held to ransom on the coldest and wettest day of the year by two groups arguing arcane ideological points. Let us start knocking heads together to solve this problem.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform for a progress report on the review of the censorship laws? It was promised last April and, given the debate in The Irish Times letters column, I would like to know how the Minister intends to proceed.
I join with my Leader and other speakers in calling for a debate on Northern Ireland. Perhaps if there were more women in the Assembly there, things would not be the way they are.
That is the kind of sexist comment we could do without. It is beginning to become a bit of a joke around here.
I have never interrupted Senator O'Toole, though I notice he frequently interrupts—
I interrupt him all the time.
Order, please, the time for the Order of Business is very limited.
They are very bold and should be given 100 lines. I am sorry I have been interrupted.
I support Senator Finneran's comments on the provision of wheelchairs on trains. However, I am surprised he is asking the Leader to consult the Minister on this issue when he lives in the next county to her and is a member of the same party.
I support the call by Senator Manning and others for a debate on Northern Ireland. Sadly, things have taken a very difficult turn there and we wish all sides well in their efforts to get back on track as soon as possible.
I also support Senator Manning's remarks on the Shannon River Council Bill and urge the Leader to take his views on board in the best interests of this House. When can we expect a further announcement, a clear-cut and definitive policy statement from the Government on Aer Rianta and the Great Southern Hotels Group?
I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland. Will the Leader consider holding a debate on the United Nations and affiliated bodies such as the World Health Organisation? It may not be widely known but doctors in Taiwan, a country with a population of 23 million people and the twelfth largest economy in the world, are not allowed to attend meetings of the WHO or contribute their knowledge to it in any way. We were not afraid to discuss East Timor and should not be afraid to discuss this issue either.
Will the Leader arrange for a debate as soon as possible on disability services and their delivery? In particular, will he arrange for us to discuss with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the necessity for each local authority to appoint an officer to deal and work with people with disabilities in their communities? This would have a significant effect on the quality of life of people with disabilities.
I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland. We owe it to people North and South of the Border to hold such a debate. Will the Leader impress upon the Minister for Health and Children the need for a public awareness campaign in regard to the childhood immunisation programme? We are currently aiming for a 95% level of uptake but the actual level is only 75%. These vaccinations are available free from general practitioners. Whereas we had hoped to eradicate diseases such as measles, mumps and rubella, they are currently reaching epidemic proportions. This is a matter of urgency in view of the risk of a major health scare occurring.
There have been very positive reports in recent days in regard to the plans of the Minister for Health and Children to make our society smoke free. Even though I am a smoker, I welcome those plans. On a related issue, I read a disturbing headline on the passing on of seized contraband cigarettes to psychiatric institutions such as the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum and others throughout the country for the benefit of psychiatric patients. I was disturbed to hear this practice had stopped. I ask that psychiatric patients would be considered in the context of whatever regulations are introduced through new legislation on the tobacco industry. In many cases, cigarettes are their only comfort or pleasure. They are not a very strong lobby group and we should not forget them. We should try to be as humane as possible. When we passed health board regulations recently, we excluded psychiatric hospitals and psychiatric wards in acute hospitals. I urge the Leader to ask the Ministers for Health and Children and Finance to reconsider this issue.
I also call for a debate on Northern Ireland. While I still hold Mr. David Trimble in high regard, it was very easy for him to jump when he had a safety net provided by Peter Mandelson. We all realise now why Mo Mowlam was moved on. The British Government acted too hastily last Friday—
These points can be made during the debate which the Senator is seeking.
The institutions should be reconvened immediately. I agree with Senator Hayes on the Leader groups. While £55 million in funding is available, there is anxiety among the groups, including the four in my county. They employ many people and have difficulty retaining them without knowing the financial outcome. I would like the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, to come to the House to inform us of his proposals.
I support Senator John Cregan's comments on cigarettes and psychiatric patients. In my experience, cigarettes are significant to most psychiatric patients and they have a role, although this may be frowned upon by other sections of the community. Will the Leader arrange statements on the Irish language? Perhaps Members could suggest ways of using the teanga dúchais more positively in the House.
Many of the matters raised on the Order of Business would have been more appropriate to the Adjournment or Private Members' time.
Senator Manning and many others called for a debate on Northern Ireland. I will inform the House of the time of that debate on tomorrow's Order of Business. It will be early next week and I will allow as much time as the House requires to enable Senators to make contributions. I would like to join with the Taoiseach, the British Prime Minister and everyone concerned in trying to return to the stability of last week. The events which took place are regrettable. However, we now have an opportunity to prevent a return to where we started. I welcome the clarification in the media, although I do not know whether it has been confirmed, that the IRA's objective is peace and that it wants the country to revert to its position of last week.
Senators Manning, O'Toole and many others expressed their concerns about the Shannon River Council Bill. I have allocated Government time tomorrow morning for the Bill. We are all in favour of the progression of this Bill. Senator O'Meara may have misled the less senior Senators in the House – all Governments fudged the serious decline and flooding of the Shannon. It is one of the great national resources and touches 13 counties. This Bill was introduced by the former Senator, Deputy Daly, who held eight portfolios and the former Commissioner and Minister, Deputy O'Kennedy. It is about time everyone concerned, including the six Departments, 30 local authorities and Opposition Senators who have re-introduced it for our consideration, does everything in their power to bring it to—
Committee Stage?
The Statute Book.
I am doing my best to bring it to a successful conclusion.
The Leader has our full support.
I thank the Opposition for its support but I do not want anyone to go on a crusade or a solo run because if they do, I will have to go on record, in the House or the media, and say how all Governments have ignored the great advantages of the Shannon.
The Leader is holding himself back and not saying it today.
I did not hear that squeak.
The Leader of the House, without interruption.
Senators O'Toole and Costello asked for a continuation of statements on the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. I propose to resume the statements from 1.30 p.m. to 4 p.m. tomorrow. Senators Costello and Quinn asked for a debate on inflation and I will make time available for a debate on the issue. I said last week in this House that the issue could be discussed from time to time. Perhaps it could be included in the statements tomorrow on the new national agreement.
Senators Costello, Norris and Fitzpatrick expressed their views about the one day bus strike which took place yesterday. I hope this will not continue because it caused great disruption to people trying to get to and from their workplace and for employers who had to provide taxis throughout the day to ferry people to and from work. One would not see a strike on a Saturday or Sunday. These people made their point yesterday and I ask them, in the interests of all concerned, to give an opportunity to those who, at the end of the day, will have to sit around the table and negotiate a settlement. When travelling to the House yesterday, I noticed there was very little traffic on the streets. I take Senator Norris's point that the Minister for Public Enterprise was probably pleased she made the decision to go underground with Luas because what took place yesterday was a great example of what can happen when traffic is taken off the streets and how pleasant it is to come to the capital city and avail of all the services.
Hear, hear. It took her to do it as well.
I will pass on the views of Senators Finneran and Ridge to the Minister regarding wheelchair accessible vehicles, particularly in relation to Iarnród Éireann. Senator Burke called on the Taoiseach to come to the House to make a statement on decentralisation. I am in agreement with this because Mullingar, the capital town of the midlands, has been ignored in this regard by all Governments.
I will pass on the views of Senator Tom Hayes to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Senator Farrell called for a debate on coastal erosion. It is approximately eight years since there was a debate on this issue and, therefore, I will make time available for such a debate.
I will make time available for a debate on the Intergovernmental Conference as requested by Senator Quinn. The Senator also asked for a debate on the important topic of attacks on the Internet. I will pass on his views to the Minister and I do not have a problem making time available for a debate on the issue.
Senators Tom Hayes and Bonner called for a debate on rural development. I take Senator Tom Hayes's point welcoming the £55 million which the Government has made available for this scheme. I am sure he is proud of his fellow countyman the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, who is performing excellently in his portfolio. His £55 million announcement to the House was well informed. I will make time available on a Thursday afternoon in the coming weeks for this debate.
Senator Ridge inquired about the progress of the review group on censorship laws. I will pass on her inquiry to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Senator Coghlan called for a debate on Aer Rianta. I do not have a difficulty with that request. Senator Lydon called for a debate on the United Nations. This is a worthwhile request and I will make time available for such a debate.
Senator O'Dowd asked for a debate on disability services. He has gone next door to County Meath and made a request to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.
The attention to Meath is heartening.
I will be pleased to ask his next door neighbour, the Minister, to come to the House for a debate on the matter.
Senator Leonard called for a debate on health and children and I will pass on her views on this serious issue to the Minister for Health and Children.
Senator John Cregan and Senator Glynn called for a debate with the Minister for Health and Children on smoking and the pending legislation in that regard. The fire regulations governing public places, such as pubs and hotels, where people smoke should ensure that proper ventilation systems are in place. This matter should be addressed as a matter of urgency. I will make time available for a debate on it in the coming weeks.
As the national holiday on St. Patrick's Day approaches, Senator Glynn called for a debate on the Irish language. I will be pleased to make time available for such a discussion.
Order of Business agreed to.