Today's business is No. 2, Aviation Regulation Bill, 2000 – Committee and Remaining Stages. Business will be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. I draw attention to the protest outside the gates of the Houses today by the parents of deaf children. They are making the case that there is no service available from the Department of Education and Science to teach deaf children sign language. If that is so, the situation must be addressed immediately. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Education and Science to come into the House and explain this state of affairs? His attention must be drawn to the matter so that immediate action can be taken to remedy the problem.
I also draw attention to the report published in London yesterday by the housing charity Shelter which states that 10% of those sleeping rough in London are Irish. There is no reason to believe that the report is inaccurate. We should ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to get up to date information on this matter from the Irish Embassy in London and report back to the House. It is a matter of great concern to all of us.
The main news which has broken since yesterday's Order of Business is that a former Taoiseach received more than £8.5 million. We should see that in the context of other issues we have been discussing. The motion to discuss how this House can deal with corruption and bribery, as we are required to do under the Constitution, which was agreed by the Leader of the House and all the other parties, is still not on the Order Paper. I will not allow this issue to go away even if I have to raise it ad nauseam. If we, as a House, are not seen to take control of the issue, we will become the laughing stock of the electoral process. This morning I again propose an amendment to the Order of Business that motion 21, in the absence of an agreed motion, be taken first.
I support Senator Manning in his comments and remind the House that we tabled an amendment to the Education Act on the question of signing for the deaf, but it was rejected at the time. We made representations at all levels and put the amendment to a vote. It would be interesting to hear the Minister explain why the Department has not responded on this issue.
I will press my amendment to the Order of Business and will continue to raise the issue until we can show the electorate that we are trying to deal with the issue in an adequate fashion. I am not saying that I am any better than anyone on either side of the House but we have a duty, as parliamentarians, to deal with this.
I second the amendment proposed by Senator O'Toole to the Order of Business. It is not good enough that we have to raise this issue at each sitting. The Leader of the House made a commitment that there would be an agreed motion. The leaders of all the parties met and agreed a motion but it has still not come before the House.
I will not accept the amendment tabled to the Registration of Lobbyists Bill last night as a joint motion. The terms of reference were not agreed and there was much with which I disagreed. We had a joint motion which was to be the focus for the debate and all sides of the House were involved. It dealt with all the issues, bribery, corruption, standards for politicians and how lobbyists should behave. The motion has still not come before the House even though the issue is being discussed everywhere else. Even when we agree to put a motion on the Order Paper, it does not appear.
I also raise the issue of the deaf children and the Department of Education and Science's failure to provide a service to teach deaf children sign language. Now they and their parents are protesting outside the Houses for a basic service which should already be available.
Will the Leader of the House arrange for a debate on Northern Ireland next week? The Ulster Unionist Council will meet this Saturday when the fate of the Good Friday Agreement will probably be decided. Following that meeting there will be an opportunity to see how the cards fall and it would be appropriate to have a debate on Northern Ireland.
I am not agreeable to taking Committee and Remaining Stages of the Aviation Regulation Bill, 2000, today. There is only a reference to Committee Stage on the Order Paper and Report Stage should be left until next week.
We are all gobsmacked about the scale of the payments which appear to have been made to Mr. Haughey and the affair raises serious issues. There was a widely drafted amendment last night which dealt with many of these matters and it was open to people—
This has been going on for a year.
—to contribute on those issues. The question on which the Chair might rule is whether we can return to those issues within a six month period. I only raise the point; I am not saying it should not happen. I am aware of the procedures which operate in the House.
I agree with Senator Costello on the importance of discussing Northern Ireland. The general consensus was that it would be preferable to wait until after the Ulster Unionist Party meeting and its decision as to the future of the executive and so on. In the event of that decision being made at the weekend, which we hope will be favourable from the point of view of Mr. Trimble and the Irish and British Governments, we should have such a debate. The House has a good history in terms of debates on Northern Ireland being balanced, reasonable and fair.
It would be important to consider the question of employment opportunities for people with disabilities. It appears that many who are well qualified have failed to find employment. There seems to be prejudice among employers regarding people who are well qualified. I know of a case where somebody in a wheelchair with a third level education is finding it extremely difficult to get employment. Legislation should be considered in that context. There has been legislation on equal opportunities which means people with disabilities cannot be discriminated against. However, this matter merits careful discussion and we could usefully put our points of view to the Government.
Many of our prisons need refurbishment and special facilities need to be put in place for some offenders, particularly juveniles. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the House to discuss the programme for building another 1,700 prison places before we embark on this incredibly expensive capital programme, irrespective of the cost? A debate is needed on the treatment of offenders, not on prisons. As the Leader and other Senators are aware, representatives from the probation service and the Irish Penal Reform Trust expressed grave concern about the prison building programme and highlighted the fact that little notice has been taken of reports which suggest that the treatment of offenders is amiss.
I support Senator Manning's call to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to come here to discuss the fact that some people of Irish origin are in dire situations in England. DÍON, which is administered through the Irish Embassy in London, has done great work. Senator Manning is right that 10% of those who are homeless and sleeping rough in London are of Irish origin. We are also grossly over-represented in the prisons and psychiatric institutions there. Many prisoners, those sleeping rough and those in psychiatric hospitals in England, have transferred from institutions here. They were cared for so poorly that they went to English institutions.
These matters marry into each other. The treatment of offenders is appalling. A great number of people in the prison system have psychiatric problems yet they are not being treated. This matter has been raised since I became a Member of the House. Will the Leader arrange to have a debate on the treatment of offenders and on our responsibility for those of our diaspora who have not done so well in England?
With regard to the recent Ombudsman's report, which we received yesterday, I was surprised to note that 20% or more of the complaints to the Ombudsman derived from complaints against local authorities, of which most of us are members and through which system many of us are elected to this House. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on this issue. The complaints related to enforcement of planning conditions and regulations. There are different problems in Dublin in terms of planning, etc., but it is not acceptable in the new millennium that there is such a large number of complaints against local authorities. As the Planning and Development Bill, 1999, has passed through this House and is with the other House, it is important that the Ombudsman's report is discussed as a matter of urgency.
The Leader agreed last week to have an all-party motion on bribery and lobbying generally. There was a debate last night on this matter and I agree with the points made by Senator Dardis. It is imperative that we have an all-party motion in the interests of this House in particular. Under no circumstances should Members vote in a manner which, as happened last night, gives the impression that there is disagreement regarding an all-party motion. Senator O'Toole has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business with which I do not agree. It is imperative to have an all-party motion on lobbying and bribery generally. I want all-party agreement that there will be a discussion, without a vote, which will be in everyone's interest.
I support the call by Senator Manning and Senator Henry regarding the Irish in England, particularly in London. I assure the House that what they described is the case. There is a further group, middle aged and elderly males, who live in poor conditions whose plight has been highlighted through the London associations with whom I have had contact. A debate in this House with the Minister for Foreign Affairs would be useful. The local authorities, through the county associations, should play a role in bringing these people back to this country and rehousing them. The conditions in which some of them live are deplorable.
I support the call by Senator O'Donovan with regard to the Ombudsman's report. It is a terrible indictment of the local authorities and, as elected representatives of local authorities, we should have a debate in which we will have an opportunity to give our views openly on their performance on a national basis.
I also support the call for a debate on the Ombudsman's report, a report which we should discuss each year as a matter of course. I disagree with Senator Dardis's point that as we had an opportunity last night to debate lobbyists there is no need to take the motion put forward by Senator O'Toole. I see a considerable difference between the two matters. We had a very good debate on lobbyists last night.
What about the amendments?
But there is a considerable difference between that debate and the one Senator O'Toole is looking for. I support him on that.
(Interruptions.)
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Quinn is in possession.
It is not about talking, it is about action.
That is the point I want to make. We are talking about action rather than just talking. There is a huge difference between the amendment on the motion last night and Senator O'Toole's and the Independent's motion. I remind Senator Dardis that all five Independent Senators spoke on the motion last night. It is not that we did not have an opportunity to speak but we really believe that Senator O'Toole's motion should be considered now and taken on board.
Members will have received a communication recently from the National Representative Council for People with Disabilities complaining bitterly about the current disability allowance, which is somewhere in the region of £73.50. They want the Government to look seriously at raising this to a minimum of £100 per week. We all know that people with disability have ongoing costs in terms of wheelchair repairs, apart from having to live off a meagre amount of money. I ask the Leader to talk to the appropriate Minister and appeal to him to look at this in a serious way at the earliest opportunity.
I ask the Leader to have an urgent debate on the continuing housing crisis, particularly the significantly increased number of young people who are unable to purchase a home of their own. I am inundated with queries from people who would like to buy their own home but cannot do so because of the massive and continuing increase in house prices.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate to clarify the issues related to the launch of Eircom shares, particularly the share price. Many hundreds of thousands of people bought those shares in good faith without knowing Eircom advised that the shares were over priced. This is to me a shocking revelation and a matter for discussion here. I ask for the Minister for Public Enterprise to come here and publish all of the advice she received on this very important issue. This is a very significant matter in view of the future of all new IPOs which the Government intends to launch.
If we are going to discuss the Telecom shares then we should also discuss the Smurfit shares. This morning I listened to the radio and I heard that they fell by 20%.
We should discuss the whole lot.
And the banks.
Is this the floor of the Stock Exchange?
It is a positive thing to think of Ireland's share croppers.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Farrell is in possession but I would prefer if we did not discuss any shares.
I too support the call for education for the deaf.
Well done.
I am sure Senators did not think I knew how to sign. I employed a deaf man who taught me some sign language and I find it very useful when I meet people who cannot speak. I pay tribute to the college that provides services for the deaf. I live near a family who are deaf and dumb and they want their child, who is also deaf and dumb, to be educated in the local national school. They do not want to send their child to Dublin. I support Senator Manning's call for services for deaf people in our schools. Many deaf people need that service.
I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland. This morning I watched a television show and I was very disappointed at some of the intolerance shown for an Orange march. The Orange Order has marched in Rossnowlagh, County Donegal, as long as I can remember. When I was younger many members of the Church of Ireland community went there for the day and their cattle and farms were looked after by their Catholic neighbours. This was normal practice. I thank God I came from an area that had a good community spirit.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
This is not a matter for the Order of Business.
It is. It is important that we call for tolerance in the South. If we want unity, tolerance and acceptance in Northern Ireland then we should show by example in the South. Again I appeal for tolerance and for people to listen to what the Orange Order has to say. They are part of our community. They are taxpayers and workers in this State. They vote in this State and we should be tolerant enough to listen to them. I call for a debate on the North.
I support the call for a debate on the Ombudsman's report, particularly in relation to the area covered by local authorities and the high level of complaints against them. This could be covered under the Local Government (No. 2) Bill.
It is.
Can the Leader tell me when is it proposed to take that Bill in this House? Will it be taken in this session and what is the up-to-date position?
I support the call for educational facilities for the deaf. We have an inclusive educational system and now is the time to care for all of our people equally. We must show that there is a fair and reasonable provision of services to all people.
I support the previous Senators who have raised the issue of the Ombudsman's report. In a time when we are talking about changing the services to the public it is interesting to note a few things about the report. First, there is the increase in the number of complaints received by the Ombudsman. Second, it is interesting to note the criticism levelled at some of the local authorities about their lack of public services and failure to give a good local service in a proper and reason able manner. We have tried to improve the quality of their customer services. Third, local authorities were criticised for their failure to communicate with the Ombudsman. We should have a full debate on this report and previous reports to see how the local authority and public administration process works at local level.
I understand that the question of the report of the probation section of the IMPACT trade union on building prisons has already been raised. I hope that the Leader will arrange a debate on this matter. Some of us have spoken over many years about the dangers of simply trying to address crime levels by building prisons. Numerous reports state that this is the wrong way to approach the problem, yet we are still doing it. Now a professional trade union involved in the area is complaining.
Will the Leader give us some indication of when he might grant us a debate on Tibet? He has given us an undertaking in principle. This debate becomes more urgent with the American decision to give full trading recognition to China without any commitment on human rights. This is tragic. The motions tabled by us contain elements of human rights. It is important that even a small country like Ireland signals that some countries have not abandoned the human rights aspect in their dealings with China.
I support Senator Kett's call for a debate on the disability allowance. Will the Leader extend that debate to include the allowance for people who look after the severely disabled and the carer's allowance? I also support the call by many other Senators for educational facilities for the deaf.
I refer to Northern Ireland and the call for a further debate. I wish David Trimble well on Saturday and hope he receives as much support as possible. In obtaining that support, I hope no conditions will be laid down on this occasion and that his party will allow the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement for the next year to enable the world to see that there are decent and civilised people in Northern Ireland. I would not like further conditions imposed to stall implementation of the Agreement.
I agree with Senator Farrell on the Orange march in Rossnowlagh. We have put up with this march for many years. Many of us do not like it but we accept it is part of the culture of the Orange Order. We have accepted the march over the years without causing any trouble in Rossnowlagh. I ask for the Good Friday Agreement to be given a chance on this occasion and hope that we can have a full year to see how things develop.
I ask the Leader of the House to make time available to discuss the Aer Rianta annual report in view of the Government's restated intention to proceed with an IPO. This should be discussed in conjunction with the Warburg Dillon Read report as they are interrelated. Time was sought previously in this House to discuss the Warburg Dillon Read report but this has not happened. This is an ideal opportunity to discuss all the issues in tandem. I ask the leader to make time available to discuss the matter next week.
Has the Leader of the House had an opportunity since yesterday to discuss with either the Minister for Health and Children or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the deaths of 75 haemophiliacs? Has he requested the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in particular, to arrange that an immediate investigation be carried out by the Garda Síochána? There is a case of criminal negligence to be answered. Apart from the normal tribunal procedure, action needs to be taken by the forces of law and order and this should be done sooner rather than later.
I support the views of Senator Manning and others. However, while I welcome Senator Manning's suggestion about emigrants in England, following a report over the past few days about the homeless – Senator Henry referred to the wonderful work of DÍON – I sometimes find it a little hypocritical of Members of this House and the other House that they usually ignore emigrant issues and it is only when a report appears in the media that everyone rushes to the barricades. This is not a reflection on the motives of anyone who raised the issue, which I applaud, but DÍON is operating on a budget of IR£750,000. Considering the current difference in sterling, it does not take a mathematician to work out how much money net is going to emigrant welfare from this and indeed previous Administrations. That figure has not changed in over a decade. It is a terrible scandal that emigrants and emigrant welfare organisations are treated in such a cavalier fashion by successive Administrations. This is not the first time I have raised this matter in the House and I will continue to raise the issue because it is a national scandal.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Is the Senator asking for a debate?
I ask the Leas-Chathaoirleach to bear with me on this because it is not often emigrant issues get an airing in this House or the other House. I am asking the Leader of the House, in the context of Senator's Manning's proposal, to encourage a debate on the wider issues of emigration, the funding of emigrant welfare organisations and the submission from the Federation of Irish Societies which has pointed out that DÍON is only able to provide upwards of 50% of the cost of welfare workers in London, Birmingham and other centres of large emigrant populations. This is totally inadequate and a national scandal. I suggest to the Leader that there should be a wider debate on emigrant issues and on the serious underfunding of those who are working to alleviate and eventually eliminate the problem of homelessness and those with psychiatric and many other problems which we have consistently and traditionally exported from the country and swept under the carpet.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I wish to remind the House that there is a resolution about the timeframe from the time the Leader announces the Order of Business.
Mr. Ryan
I agree with my colleagues regarding the concerns of parents of deaf children. I agree also with Senator Mooney on the scandalous way in which emigrants are treated. These issues are both national scandals. However, the real national scandal is that a Government with £2 billion surplus funding has decided not to spend the money on deaf children or emigrants abroad because of ideological nonsense foisted on this country by Senator Kett's friend, the Taoiseach, and the Minister for Finance who have lost all touch with reality, as event after event has shown. Members should go to a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and talk about the issues to those who could make a difference overnight if they wish and not come in here—
The Senator should talk to his own parliamentary party. Every Government is responsible and the last Government is as culpable as every other Government. How dare the Senator suggest that the monopoly is on our side of the House. His remarks are a disgrace. When the Labour Party was in Government it did nothing about the issue.
(Interruptions.)
The Senator's party's record is abysmal in this regard.
I support Senator Kett's remarks on behalf of marginalised disabled people whose allowance is low and should be increased. I also support the calls regarding the lack of sign language programmes in the Department of Education and Science for those who need them.
I join in Members' calls to take the necessary measures to help restore the body politic to full health, so to speak. We cannot shirk updating our bribery and corruption legislation, lobbyists legislation and other related matters. I agree with my colleagues that an all-party approach would be preferable in that regard. The Government missed an opportunity yesterday to effectively introduce its own lobbyists Bill. If the Bill was allowed to proceed to Committee Stage, the Government could have tabled the necessary raft of amendments which would have effectively made it Government legislation. However, there was no desire to do this and I fear members of the Government are classic didderers and pro crastinators. With respect, we must be seen to deal with this matter now and not postpone it indefinitely. I support the calls for a debate on the Ombudsman's report.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Dardis, Farrell and Chambers called for proper funding for those who are deaf. I will make time available for a debate in this House on the issue. I will also contact the Minister concerned this morning and pass on the strong views of Members. Given our Celtic tiger economy, a small allocation of money should be made available immediately in this regard.
Senators O'Toole, Dardis and others called for a debate on issues in the public arena. I offered yesterday morning to make time available last night to debate my party's amendment, and I congratulate all those who contributed to the debate. I can understand those who were not able to contribute but I do not understand how those who did not bother to contribute can speak here this morning. Serious issues need to be addressed and there was a lot of latitude in the amendment, which was a page and a quarter in length. I asked for the debate to be deferred. I said in my contribution last night that I agree with most of what is contained in the Bill. The amendment sought extra time for the party leaders to discuss the Bill with it being re-introduced in the House by 31 December. That still stands.
There will be a change of Government.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Cassidy is replying to the Order of Business.
Senators requesting debates on the Order of Business have always been given a sympathetic hearing. No one can deny that. I take such requests, as in the case of Senator O'Toole's request, very seriously.
Senators Costello, Bonner, Dardis, Farrell and Manning called for a debate on Northern Ireland. We have had no difficulty meeting requests for such a debate up to now and, if everything goes well at the weekend, we will have such a debate at the earliest possible opportunity. Senators Henry and Norris called on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the House for a debate on the programme for the treatment of offenders. I will allow time for such a debate.
Senators O'Donovan, Finneran, Quinn, Burke and Chambers called for a debate on the Ombudsman's report. As suggested by Senator Quinn and others this morning, we will ensure we have a debate on this matter every year during this Government's term of office. Senators Kett, Bonner and Ormonde called for a debate on funding a minimum disability benefit of £100 per week. Many of this morning's contributions related to matters of disability. We should invite the Minister to the House for a half day's debate on this issue. Senators can pool their ideas on this issue and do something for those in need who require our help. I will allow time for such a debate this session.
Senator O'Dowd called for a debate on the housing crisis. I will allow time for such a debate, although the matter could be discussed next Thursday in the all-day debate on the economy. I look forward to hearing contributions from all those Senators who have called for such a debate on many occasions. Senator Burke asked the timeframe for the Local Government (No. 2) Bill. The Bill is currently with the Dáil and the Senator might ask the Opposition Whip how long it will be before we get it. As soon as it becomes available it will be taken in the Seanad.
Senator Norris called for a debate on Tibet. I will allow time for such a debate in the next few weeks. Senator Taylor-Quinn called for a debate on the Aer Rianta report. Perhaps she could raise that matter with the Minister for Finance next Thursday when he comes to the House. If not, I will allow time for such a debate at a later date.
Senator Taylor-Quinn also called for a debate on matters before the tribunal dealing with hepatitis. This is the most important tribunal. It is in that issue the real scandal lies. I will be sympathetic to requests from Senators on all sides regarding this matter. The value of one life cannot be measured in money. There are many sad stories of the absolutely shameful loss of lives. We must do all in our power to ensure this never happens again. I will allow as much time as is requested to deal with this issue.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator O'Toole has moved an amendment to the Order of Business. Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes, in light of the Leader's complete misunderstanding of what I am trying to do.
Amendment put.
Tá
|
Burke, Paddy.Coghlan, Paul.Costello, Joe.Cregan, Denis (Dino).Doyle, Joe.Henry, Mary.Norris, David. |
O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Toole, Joe.Quinn, Feargal.Ross, Shane.Ryan, Brendan.Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine. |
Níl
|
Bohan, Eddie.Bonner, Enda.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Cregan, John.Dardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Liam.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Gibbons, Jim. |
Glynn, Camillus.Keogh, Helen.Kett, Tony.Kiely, Daniel.Leonard, Ann.Mooney, Paschal.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.O'Donovan, Denis.Quill, Máirín.Walsh, Jim. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators Costello and O'Toole; Níl, Senators Farrell and Keogh.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.