Vol. 164 No. 10
On behalf of the House, I express our deepest sympathy to the Deputy Leader, Senator Dardis, on the death of his mother.
The Order of Business for today is No. 1, Fisheries (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2000 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 2, statements on the clinical vaccine trials report to be taken at 4.30 p.m., with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and on which Members may share time; and No. 15, motion No. 25.
On behalf of this side of the House, I join the Leader of the House in expressing sympathy to Senator Dardis on the death of his mother.
I cannot agree to the Order of the Business. I ask the Leader of the House to allow spokespersons more time on No. 2, an issue of great importance. Children were used as guinea pigs, operated on and treated without respect by virtue of the fact that they had no one to defend them or to say whether this should have happened. The Leader of the House should consider allocating 20 minutes to each spokesperson.
On the rolling stock of CIE, an issue on which I agree with Senator Burke and which he has raised on a number of occasions, will the Minister for Public Enterprise come into the House and tell us why there has been an undue delay in the provision of rolling stock which can be utilised by those who are less able physically than the rest of us? People in wheelchairs have to use the dining room. I heard today about a young lady who had to use the goods wagon. That is not the way we treat our citizens; we treat them equally. When exactly is it intended to make provision for the people concerned? The position in the west, where the need is greatest, should be looked at first, rather than the Dublin-Belfast line, to ensure we do not have a two tier system.
The case that the time allocated for spokespersons be extended beyond 15 minutes has merit. Some Senators have much to say about the issue. I therefore recommend the amendment to the Leader of the House.
Last week we had a good discussion on a number of issues arising from the Olympic Games. Another issue has emerged in the meantime with which the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation might deal. He should look into the report in today's edition of the Irish Examiner about the undemocratic and unrepresentative nature of the Irish Olympic Council which is supported by huge amounts of State funds. It is not appropriate that we are supporting that type of structure and it is time we spoke out about the issue. It is unfortunate that we did not know about it last week. I am not suggesting that we should have another long debate on sport – that is not what I am calling for – but there should be an appropriate response from the Minister on the issue.
On the issue raised by Senator Coogan, we also had a long debate on the Paralympics and people with disabilities. The Centres for Independent Living have made a pre-budget submission on behalf of those with a handicap and those who need support to live independently. It would be appropriate, in the context of the budget, for this House to look very carefully at what they are asking for. In a society where we need equality and in the month when the Equal Status Bill was passed, it would be appropriate for us to show our support for an injection of greater resources into the centres of independent living. I would like a debate on that.
On behalf of the Labour group, I extend our sympathies to Senator Dardis on the death of his mother.
Senator O'Toole raised the issue of sport. On a different aspect, I welcome the recommendation made at the inquest yesterday into the death of a young basketball player from Limerick that research should be conducted into the ingredients of the stimulant drinks that are in widespread use throughout the country. They were initially available in clubs but are now part of the drinks consumed by sports people on a widespread basis. That should be looked into very carefully.
Last week I called for a debate on the teachers' industrial action. Given that air and rail services ground to a halt over the past couple of days and the industrial action that has been taken by the teachers will continue for another week, we should have a widespread debate on the whole area of industrial relations and the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness.
We should look specifically at the issue of a trade union body such as the ASTI, which is not part of the PPF, being asked by the Minister for Education and Science to conduct its negotiations in the context of an agreement which it did not sign and to which it is not party. We should also look at the threat to deduct pay from a body which is giving voluntary supervision, as if that were part of its normal duties. These serious matters should be addressed in this House rather than by the Taoiseach or the Minister for Education and Science using the newspapers to do so, without a proper industrial relations forum to address these issues.
On behalf of my party, I wish to express our sympathy to our colleague, Senator Dardis, on the death of his mother.
I remind the Leader that last week we asked for a day long debate on education. We specifically wanted to debate the Cromien report on the Department of Education and Science. I also asked for provision to be made to discuss the issue of teacher education and training. I ask the Leader not to long-finger that request.
In light of the fact that the capital city of the west ground to a halt yesterday because pickets were placed on the train station, preventing Bus Éireann buses and Iarnród Éireann trains from leaving the station, I must support the call for a debate on industrial relations. It is not fair that the blunt instrument of striking can be used against ordinary people in such a manner. If our industrial relations mechan isms are that poor, the Government must do something about it. I would welcome such a debate.
I also second the call for a debate on stimulant drinks. It is very sad to see young people, and some not so young people, going out nightly and using these drinks to rev themselves up to continue until the early hours of the morning. That cannot be good for their health. I support the call to have this investigated.
Have we arrived at the stage in the South that we need General de Chastelain to come here to decommission weapons? Is the House aware that 60 or more weapons were recovered in Limerick? It appears that at least one person will be murdered every week in Dublin, which will probably be reported on page seven of the newspapers. I am reluctant to use the term "zero tolerance" but I must bring it into use again and ask the Leader to ask the Minister to come to the House to tell us what he proposes to do about lawlessness.
It appears that the paramilitaries have sold out and sold on. In a neighbourhood in my constituency, people were stopped one Saturday night by a gentleman wearing a balaclava and carrying a gun. Is the city becoming like Chicago in the 1930s? The Minister owes it to the people to come to the House and explain what he intends to do about the situation.
I support the call for a debate on education. I also support the call for a discussion on industrial relations, with particular regard to the teaching profession and its conditions of employment. It is time to bring everything into the open and there is no better place for such a discussion than the Seanad.
Some time ago I asked that time be allocated for statements on the role of An Bord Pleanála. In the course of my work I frequently hear derogatory reports about An Bord Pleanála. Now that we are in the process of introducing local government reform and given that this is an important agency in the planning system, it is appropriate before the legislation is introduced that we should be given an opportunity to discuss An Bord Pleanála and, indeed, the brief of the National Roads Authority and the Dublin Transport Office in the context of traffic procedures and how they link into the local authorities in Dublin. These are important issues on which there should be an opportunity to make statements. The statements could contribute to the broad concept of how agencies should link with local authorities in the context of local government reform.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House and outline what plans he has to protect non-EU doctors and their families from racist attacks? I have previously brought this matter to the attention of the House. Given that the Department has taken the unprecedented step of going to the Indian subcontinent to recruit doctors to work in this country, it might well have a legal as well as a moral obligation to look after their safety. I get complaints almost every week about people being attacked, even though we depend on these doctors to staff the hospitals outside our major centres. The Minister needs to take a more energetic approach to protecting them.
I support Senator O'Toole's comments about the Olympic Council of Ireland. The House would benefit from such a debate. In the Minister's defence, he has been shouting this message for many months. The athletics body is not represented on the executive council of the OCI, even though two thirds of Olympic activity is about track and field events.
Will the Leader indicate when the Broadcasting Bill will be before the House? It has been wending a tortuous path through the Lower House and is now at the end of Committee Stage. Will it be before the Seanad before Christmas? In that context, I commend the Minister on her comments in the Dáil last night with regard to an increase in the television licence fee for RTÉ. She indicated that she will set up a system for outside evaluation. Could the Minister be afforded the opportunity of clarifying what she means by that? Television viewers and radio listeners should be included in the evaluation. Unfortunately, Governments traditionally seek the views of economists, think tanks, consultants and so forth. In this instance the people who matter most are the television viewers and radio listeners. The general perception of RTÉ – I am not sure that it is correct – is that it has not listened to the general public when planning its programming.
Will the Leader ask the Minister to expand on her comments last night in the context of the Broadcasting Bill or invite her to come to the House to make a statement?
I wish to express my condolences to Senator Dardis on the death of his mother.
I also seek a debate on child care, which is now at a crisis point. There is an extreme lack of supply of child care services but great demand for them. As many women are aware, the focus is on this issue now because of the current economic situation, not as a result of any great concern about child care itself. That is most unfortunate. Notwithstanding that, this is an issue we must debate in this House.
I also support, as I did last week, the call for a debate on education, which would be timely. We heard about the Cromien report last week. We must stress the difficulties faced by children who fall between the cracks, who do not benefit from what is generally a good education system and who are the deprived children of our society.
I join my colleagues in calling for a debate on the unfortunate situation that has arisen in 600 schools across the nation. I regret it has taken this to provoke calls for a lengthy debate in this House, which the situation warrants. It is evident that work practices are outdated. I was staggered to realise that supervision in school yards is still done on a voluntary basis without payment. From the perspective of examination students particularly, whose career prospects are being put at risk, this warrants not only an immediate resolution but a full debate in this House.
I also join my colleagues who raised the question of the undemocratic structures of the Olympic Council. For the Minister to come here to answer questions would be very worthwhile. I have no doubt he would welcome the opportunity. This issue was touched upon in a recent debate here and I raised the matter in the context of the generally undemocratic nature of the Olympic Council. I was not as aware as I am now, as a result of the report in today's Irish Examiner, that we have a 19th century structure which is utterly undemocratic and which is in receipt of significant amounts of State funds. It is the custodian of the dreams of many of our young people and it warrants a full debate.
I would like further clarification on the proposal to have statements today on vaccine trials. The Leader of the House said they would start at 4.30 p.m. but he did not give a closing time. Are they to end at 6 p.m. or will they go on after that? Will they go into another day? Many people will want to make statements on this very significant issue involving questions of ethics from which we can certainly learn. I am not sure whether Senator Coogan proposed an amendment to the Order of Business. If not, I will be proposing that we amend it to set a time limit of 20 minutes on contributions. I would prefer an open-ended debate, but 20 minutes would be reasonable. I am making a formal proposal, and I will put it to a vote if it is not agreed.
Does the Government have plans to reform legislation dealing with the "guilty but insane" verdict in courts? I ask because in the past few days we have been again chastised by a senior member of the Bench for not amending this legislation which hamstrings them in certain cases. It is our duty as legislators to do this.
I support the call for a debate on Red Bull. If advertisements are to be believed, it has a very serious stimulant effect. A friend of mine was attacked in his house last year and tied up with his wife, and one of the defence arguments was that the person who did it was behaving out of character because he had been drinking Red Bull. That opens up an area that we should consider.
I agree with my colleagues that we should have a debate on the subject of teachers and their remuneration. One of the reasons this country is doing so well is because of teachers. I sympathise with them with regard to their pay structures. I heard a teacher saying yesterday that she was being derided by colleagues from university who had gone into other professions and who regarded the remuneration of teachers as derisory and ludicrous. I would remind the House that teachers' salaries, as quoted, are slightly in excess of what we in this House get. Perhaps we should look for parity with teachers following a successful claim.
A recent article in The Guardian written by a member of the Patten Commission on policing was significant and worrying. The author of the article accused the British Government of gutting the proposals of the Patten report. As we know from Northern Ireland history, it is particularly important that a new police force should enjoy the full confidence and support of the Nationalist community. That is fundamental to the peace process. Fundamental also to the Good Friday Agreement are the cross-Border bodies. We have a stalemate there. It is evident the process is in very troubled waters. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate at a very early stage to discuss this, as it is unacceptable that the process is drifting, as it is at present.
I want to be associated with the message of sympathy to Senator Dardis on the death of his mother.
I support my colleague, Senator Coogan, on the state of our rail and bus services. It is time the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, did something about it. She has been in office for the past three and a half years and the service is getting worse. She should make a public apology to the woman from Westport who had to spend 40 minutes in a wheelchair in a goods wagon of a train on arrival at its destination before she was taken off the train last Sunday. That was deplorable. The rail service from the west was faster in the 1800s when it was set up.
We cannot go into this type of detail on the Order of Business, as it is neither appropriate nor relevant to it.
In view of that incident last weekend, I ask the Leader of the House as a matter of urgency to request the Minister for Public Enterprise to come into the House to give the up-to-date position on what she is doing to improve rail and bus services from Dublin to rural parts of the country. They are in chaos. Urgent action is required. I and many people think the Minister has lost it, that she is not in command. If she is not, something will have to be done.
I would like the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, to come into the House to debate the issues of law reform and law and order. Such a debate would enable him to lay before this House the large volume of legislation he has introduced since he became Minister. It would also be an opportunity for him to outline the number of pri son spaces he has provided, thus ensuring all those who commit a serious crime will spend hard time. It would be encouraging if Members supported the concept of CCTV, as it has proved to be of great assistance for those who enforce law and order.
In relation to unprovoked attacks, a number of which took place in Mullingar, I commend the local gardaí for the proactive measures they took to deal with them.
I support Senator Ormonde's points regarding An Bord Pleanála. Today I received a letter from a man who has received planning permission for a house, but an appeal has been made to An Bord Pleanála. It has written to him informing him it will not be able to deal with the appeal before the middle of next year. The objection to that application was lodged by a crank. It is unacceptable that people should have to wait that length of time before they can commence work on the building of their homes and should have to endure the cost involved.
I would like the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to come into the House to debate the issue of the large number of women who stayed at home to rear their families who cannot get on to FÁS retraining programmes as they are not on the live register. There is a great demand for such retraining programmes. Those women are anxious to return to the workplace.
I ask for a debate on this matter as it is important to point out to the Minister the needs of this large number of people. Nobody is standing up for them. They have given a lot to society and are prepared to go back into the workforce at a time when they are badly needed.
Is it possible for the Minister for Public Enterprise or the Minister for Finance to inform the House of the steps the Government is taking to object in the strongest possible terms to the proposals from the UK Chancellor? Mr. Brown intends, in his forthcoming budget, to impose additional taxes on Irish freight – ordinary or articulated lorries – when they use the roads in Her Majesty's jurisdiction. My county exports most of the fish produced and processed there through Northern Ireland and Britain and on to the Continent. We know of the difficulties they are having due to oil costs but if this additional tax were to be imposed it would put most of these operators out of business and indirectly affect the fishing industry greatly. One of these Ministers should come to the House to debate this, as now is the time to object at European Commission level. There is no doubt this measure is against European law.
Can the Minister for the Environment and Local Government intervene in any way with An Bord Pleanála regarding its draconian requirements for the forthcoming oral appeal hearing in Donegal which involves the anti-pylon campaign? I am not making an issue on behalf of that campaign but on behalf of the people of the Donegal Gaeltacht. They have been asked to furnish to An Bord Pleanála before the hearings take place copies of any contributions they wish to make in Irish. It is the right of every citizen in the State to make a case in their native language.
Hear, hear.
It was over the top to make such a request and I urge the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to intervene to ensure people are allowed to make a case as they are entitled to do under the Constitution.
I formally second Senator Norris's amendment.
I seldom speak on the Order of Business but RTÉ is looking for a rise of approximately 50% in television licence fees, which Senator Mooney mentioned. If this is to be considered we should have a debate on the quality of RTÉ's programmes. It is disgraceful, particularly the treatment it gives sport. There should be a live sports programme at the weekend on either Saturday or Sunday. There is an important race in Ireland at the weekend – John Taylor might say it is in the United Kingdom but I think it is in Ireland – which is being televised live by Channel 4 and a French television channel. It is a disgrace that RTÉ cannot televise it.
I am not specifically speaking about racing but also about other sports. Those who are old or housebound deserve better. We should debate this matter.
I said in relation to No. 2 that I proposed 15 minutes for spokespersons, ten minutes for all other speakers and that Senators could share time. There will be a motion on the clinical vaccine trials report before the House soon – probably next week – but I have no difficulty in extending the speaking time for principal spokespersons to 20 minutes.
Senators Coogan, Norris, O'Toole, Burke and Mooney expressed views regarding the poor rail facilities in the west. I will forward those views to the Minister, who is a hardworking and dedicated individual intent on trying to improve the very difficult situation she inherited from her various predecessors. I will also highlight the incident involving the lady in the wheelchair. That was a regrettable occurrence and no one should have to experience such treatment. I join Members in expressing my shock and horror at what occurred.
I look forward to the day when all areas are served equally by our rail network. The affluence which has resulted from the Celtic tiger should be spread across the country, not concentrated on two or three heavily populated areas. I support calls that the Border, midlands and west of Ireland region should be well served by the rail network.
I share the concerns of various Members vis-à-vis the activities of the Olympic Council of Ireland. I will make the Minister, with whom we had a full and lengthy debate some weeks ago, aware of those concerns. If another debate is needed to deal with this specific issue, I will make time available for it.
I wish now to refer to the unfortunate death of a young student at the weekend. It is appalling to see someone die at such a young age and if the ingredients of certain drinks were to blame there should be an immediate investigation.
I agree with Senators' requests for a debate on industrial relations. I will endeavour to arrange such a debate during the next two to three weeks and I look forward to lengthy contributions by the various Members who expressed their concerns in respect of this issue.
Senators Ridge and Glynn requested that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should come before the House to outline Government policy for the future in respect of the area of justice. As stated on many occasions on the Order of Business, the Minister is hardworking and dedicated. In the first two years of the Government's term of office, 32% and 27% of all legislation processed by the Dáil and Seanad, respectively, emanated from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I spoke to the Minister at lunch and he informed me that he intends to bring further Bills before the Houses, a number of which will be initiated in the Seanad. I agree with the views expressed by Senator Glynn in respect of this matter.
Senator Ridge expressed a number of views regarding law and order on our streets, a matter of extreme importance which involves protecting the basic freedom of every citizen to walk or drive where they please. The Garda Síochána is doing everything possible to protect people's rights in this regard. However, if additional resources are needed they should be forthcoming.
Senators Ormonde, Tom Hayes and Bonner called for statements on An Bord Pleanála. The Senators inquired whether it should be allowed to continue in existence or be replaced by an alternative, perhaps a court style system of appeal that can deal more efficiently and directly with matters and be more answerable to the public. An Bord Pleanála appears to many elected representatives and members of the public to be a law unto itself and people who appeal planning decisions never feel they have been given a fair hearing. Many unexplained decisions have been made in recent years. On the other hand, An Bord Pleanála has been obliged to deal with an unprecedented level of work. This matter is worthy of a lengthy debate, perhaps in conjunction with the debate on local government reform. I will make time available for such a debate.
I will pass on Senator Henry's views on non-EU hospital doctors. Senators Mooney and Rory Kiely requested a debate on the increase in tele vision licence fees sought by RTÉ. I have no difficulty with arranging such a debate. As I have often stated, RTÉ is a place of excellence and has always produced the goods when a challenge has been laid before it. However, there is always room for improvement and there is a need to consider the position from the perspective of viewers. If customers do not like what they see in a shop window, they will not buy it. Likewise, in this case they will switch to another channel. It would be healthy to allow Senators to express their opinions while the Minister is evaluating the request from the RTÉ authority. I fully agree with Senator Mooney that RTÉ viewers and listeners should be included in the procedure. The Committee Stage debate on the Broadcasting Bill is taking place in the Dáil.
On Senator Costello's request for a debate on child care, time can be made available for this. I will pass on to the Minister for Justice Senator Norris's views on the "guilty but insane" plea, which has been referred to a considerable number of times by justices. Senator Ó Murchú called for a debate on the report of the Patten Commission on policing. Time can also be made available for this.
Senator Hayes called for FÁS to expand its training programmes to cater for the many men and women who wish to return to the workplace. These people, particularly females, have much expertise and are fully committed to the areas in which they reside. I will raise this excellent idea with the Minister and it may be possible to debate it during this session.
Senator Bonner called on the Minister for Finance to contact the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, as a matter of urgency, to discuss the serious plight facing many companies if an additional tax is imposed on Irish freight. A high percentage of industries, for example, the fishing industry in Donegal, export their products by freight. This issue is of serious concern to all exporters and following the conclusion of the Order of Business I will immediately raise it with the Minister for Finance's office.
Senator Norris has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That the time allowed for the contribution of each Senator on item 2 be extended by 20 minutes". Is the amendment being pressed?
I think the Leader of the House has agreed to this. There is another matter consequent upon that on which I would like him to shed some light, that is when the debate will conclude. If the debate concludes at 6 p.m Senators will barely have time—
To clarify the position, I understood the Leader to say that the time for the principal spokespersons will be extended to 20 minutes.
If there are four spokespersons plus the Minister, nobody else will be able to contribute. This is wrong. I asked the Leader to clarify whether the debate would continue after Private Members' time or be continued next week.
I propose to bring it back to the House next week.
