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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 29 Mar 2001

Vol. 165 No. 18

Motor Insurance: Statements.

Is cúis áthais dom a bheith anseo arís chun labhairt ar an rún seo faoi árachas d'aos óg na tíre. Táim ag súil go mbeidh díospóireacht spéisiúil againn agus go mbeimid in ann le chéile eolas cruinn beacht a chur faoi bhráid an tSeanaid.

I am happy to have this opportunity to discuss the issue of motor insurance for young drivers. Senators will be aware that the interim report of the motor insurance advisory board was released under the freedom of information legislation last week. I have provided copies of the interim report to the Clerk of the Seanad for Senators.

Since the early 1990s successive Governments have grappled with the issue of insurance costs, particularly for young drivers. There has been extensive research into ways of reducing insurance premiums. The research indicated that costs of settling claims, particularly personal injury claims, are largely responsible for high insurance costs. Further research was undertaken into possible solutions. A major outcome of that research is the second report of the special working group on personal injuries compensation, to which I will refer in greater detail later.

When I was appointed Minister of State with responsibility for commerce in October 1997, I provided that the research into personal injuries compensation should continue. I was aware of the degree of public concern surrounding the issue of motor insurance and, in particular, the issue of premiums for young drivers. It was clear that there was a need to inquire into the bases on which premiums were charged to people of both sexes and of different age groups. Accordingly, I set up the Motor Insurance Advisory Board, MIAB, in 1998 to examine the factors that influence the cost of motor insurance and the relationship between the premiums charged to different categories of drivers and the claims experience of those categories.

The Motor Insurance Advisory Board is chaired by Ms Dorothea Dowling who is claims manager of CIE and a fellow of the Chartered Insurance Institute, with 15 years of experience in the industry in both Dublin and London. The board members are representative of the various groups interested in motor insurance, including representatives of consumers, commercial motorists, young drivers, the Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Department of the Environment and Local Government, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, driver trainers, the motor industry and, of course, the insurance industry, including brokers. It is an outstanding board. The board began its work in late 1998 and has dealt with a broad range of relevant issues as well as the issue of claims costs as compared with premiums charged.

The MIAB submitted its interim report to our Department last June. The board was conscious that the data on which it had based its first report was incomplete and that the findings were, therefore, tentative. Thus, the interim report clearly stated that the board required total access to the individual raw data from each insurance company before any firm conclusions could be reached. Further, it became clear last October that there were other deficiencies in the data. The board took the view that the flawed information compromised the already tentative conclusions of its report and brought that fact immediately to my attention.

In essence, the data concerning claims experience in various categories of drivers did not cover the whole market. The MIAB considered that the missing data was significant and could have an impact on the analysis. In addition, it was not clear that the data adequately identified different categories of driver – in particular, it was not clear that women drivers were always separately identified. The challenges in producing accurate data largely arose because the centralised IT system that the insurance industry used to deliver the earlier data had difficulties coping with mergers in the industry which had necessitated integration of sometimes different computer systems. It appears that these difficulties have been resolved and that the insurance industry is in a position to deliver accurate data to the MIAB at this time.

While the inferences that the MIAB had drawn from the incomplete information available to it were interesting, they could not be regarded as conclusions. Moreover, the board was careful to emphasise that they were not being regarded as conclusions by the board. Furthermore, the board pointed out that in calculating what it described as profits, it had not taken the insurers' administrative costs into account on the grounds that they would not differ from one policyholder to another. However, those costs existed. The board went on to point out that reliable raw data was required before it could draw conclusions about the relationship between premiums and claims experience for the various categories of driver within each company.

Clearly, the inferences drawn by the board were interesting and thought-provoking. However, to react to them would have been premature and ill advised. Once the board was in a position to confirm that the insurance industry would supply accurate data, I extended the appointment of the board to the end of 2001. I was anxious to facilitate the board's analysis of the data and the completion of its task in light of these early findings.

It is vital that any consideration by this Government of issues arising from the levels of motor insurance premiums should be on an accurate and well informed basis. The Government has a statutory duty to require insurance companies to comply with solvency legislation. That is one of the serious responsibilities I hold as Minister of State with responsibility for commerce. Consumers have a right to expect that the insurance companies they deal with will be in a position to pay claims and generally meet their obligations to their policyholders. This House does not need reminding that motor insurance companies have failed in the past.

The solvency regime imposed by the various insurance Acts restricts, at least theoretically, the entry of potential suppliers on the market and the reserving requirements imposed on insurance companies add to the cost and, therefore, the price of insurance. However, everybody will agree that the maintenance of the solvency regime is unquestionably in the interests of consumers. Accordingly, it is vital that the Government considers issues relating to the pricing of insurance on a basis that is demonstrably reliable and accurate. Thus it would not be in the interests of consumers and policyholders for the Government to react prematurely to incomplete information. The only sensible course is the one I have taken, which is to allow the board to continue its work so that it may carry out a full and detailed analysis on reliable and robust data.

I am most appreciative of the hard work already done by the board and the work now to be undertaken. I am also most appreciative of the outstanding work by the insurance division of my Department. This work will make a valuable contribution to informed debate on motor insurance costs. It is expected that the board will report towards the end of this year. The Government will take full account of the board's recommendations and will refer them, as appropriate, to the new financial services regulatory authority.

It may be useful to inform this House of the context in which insurance is sold in Ireland and the bearing it has on the options available to the Government in relation to pricing and underwriting of insurance. One of the fundamental principles of the Single European Market is the free movement of goods, services and citizens throughout the European Union. The third insurance directives provide the legal framework for the Single Market by setting out the rules to be observed by the supervisory authorities in all the member states. These rules facilitate the freedoms available under the treaty. As a result, any EU authorised insurer may offer insurance to any EU citizen without reference to country of origin. Equally, any EU citizen is entitled to purchase insurance from any EU authorised insurer.

The advantage of the Single Market, from the point of view of the consumer, is that it should increase competition resulting in downward pressure on prices. While a significant number of EU companies have notified us of their intention to offer insurance to Irish consumers on a services basis, there is little evidence that they are placing business on the Irish market. As the Single Market becomes a reality for both consumers and service providers, we will see more companies offering insurance, including motor insurance, here. I have frequently urged insurance intermediaries to seek quotes on behalf of their clients from insurers based elsewhere in the European Union. Representing Ireland internationally in insurance and other financial industries, I appeal to international insurance companies to deliver services here.

There are two principles in the regime established by the treaties and the third directives to be noted. One is that member states are explicitly prevented by the directives from intervening in the pricing of insurance. The other is the principle of free movement.

The ban on price intervention means that we cannot intervene to freeze, reduce or increase the price of motor insurance, either generally or for a particular group of motorists. The free movement principle means that I cannot compel any citizen to purchase insurance from a particular provider or in particular circumstances. It is not possible to compel motorists to join a "community rated" scheme such as we have for health insurance. In the event that such a scheme were set up, whether covering all motorists or only those within a certain age bracket, the best risks, that is the best risks as consumers, could exercise their rights as citizens of the European Union and opt out of the pool, thus defeating the purpose of the scheme. Evidence from such "young driver" schemes in the US suggests that best risks opt out and the price for those left in the pool escalates.

Although the European context in which we operate imposes these constraints, the Government is active in seeking alternatives to address the costs of insurance. One of the most important of these is the Government's intention to establish a personal injuries assessment board to improve the efficiency of the insurance claims process. The board will provide an independent forum to decide on compensation for injured parties quickly and in an unintimidating environment. It is not intended to reduce the amount of awards to injured parties. In its initial operational phase, the board will decide on the amount of personal injury compensation arising from employers' liability and will later assume responsibility for motor insurance claims. It will only decide on the issue of quantum, not liability. The board will not infringe on the individual's right of access to the courts. It will work as an independent and expert entity within the Courts Service. It will operate in a non-adversarial fashion and so should reduce the cost of delivering compensation for personal injury claims by streamlining the process.

Cost reduction will be achieved by reducing the number of cases which are settled by the parties following the instigation of court proceedings. At present only 10% of legal cases started for compensation reach the courts. The current practice imposes costs from which the injured party does not benefit, such as insurance administration, the expert witnesses and legal expertise. Research undertaken by the Motor Insurance Advisory Board indicates that a very high proportion of outlay on injury claims is absorbed by such costs. For every £100 compensation paid for injury in motor accidents, an extra 40% goes on lawyers' and experts' fees.

The Minister for the Environment has also taken a number of initiatives to reduce accident frequency. While accident rates remain too high, especially in view of their human costs, we are achieving real progress, particularly when the rates of accidents are compared with the rate of growth in car ownership. In 1996 there were 828,000 cars and today there are 1.3 million.

Yesterday, my Government colleague, Deputy Dempsey, Minister for the Environment and Local Government, announced the publication of the Road Traffic Bill, 2001, which extensively improves enforcement arrangements in relation to road traffic offences. The purpose is to achieve a reduction in road deaths and injuries. The Bill provides for the introduction of a penalty points system. Carelessness and lack of consideration on the road will attract penalty points. If a motorist accumulates 12 penalty points, he or she will be automatically disqualified from driving. This will cause motorists to drive with greater caution and consideration.

Speaking as Minister of State with responsibility for commerce, I am confident that my record speaks for itself. Last year, with the valuable input of this House and the Dáil, I steered the Insurance Bill through both Houses. Insurance intermediaries will soon be subject to a systematic supervisory regime so that consumers can have confidence in them. Consumers of life assurance are now entitled to receive important information before they purchase life assurance. Soon, the personal injuries assessment board will benefit injured consumers by giving them access to fast, transparent compensation for injuries. That will benefit insurance policyholders by cutting the costs of compensation delivery. The Motor Insurance Advisory Board will continue with its work and will report to the Government before the end of this year. We await the recommendations with great interest.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and compliment him on establishing the Motor Insurance Advisory Board to examine the factors influencing motor insurance, particularly the relationship between the premiums charged for different categories of drivers and the claims made by those drivers. I am indebted to the Minister of State for his unfailing courtesy and willingness, unlike some of his colleagues, to make available essential information.

We are all motivated by the need to protect the consumer, and I applaud the Minister for what he said on that. I also welcome the Government's introduction of a personal injuries assessment board to improve the efficiency of the claims process and the proposals in the Road Traffic Bill, 2001, which we will assess in more detail soon.

This is an important subject. There is a conflict between what the insurance companies told the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business and the findings of the Motor Insurance Advisory Board's interim report concerning insurance costs for young drivers and companies' profits. I support Deputy Higgins's demand that the insurance companies and the Irish Insurance Federation be recalled before the committee.

It appears that drivers under 25 are among the most profitable customers for insurers, along with women drivers who are also discriminated against and have to pay well over the odds. My colleague, Deputy Charles Flanagan, was quite right to call on the Government to prepare a plan to take on the insurance industry, with a particular focus on the cost cartel. Insurance companies have consistently justified astronomical premiums for those under 25 because of the high risk, loss-making business they claim is involved. The reality is totally different, which might not have been revealed had the Minister not set up the Motor Insurance Advisory Board, which I compliment him on doing. I am glad that a number of Fianna Fáil Deputies during the week called on the Government to take whatever action is necessary.

It appears from the MIAB report that insurance companies make profits on all categories of business except those under 18. The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Enterprise and Small Business should recall the motor insurers and investigate how they provide quotations for younger people and women. In order to conduct an investigation properly the committee needs the power to compel industry executives to appear before it and to provide the necessary documentation.

The Minister should ask the MIAB to set the Irish Insurance Federation a deadline of the end of the week to disclose information on premiums and claims. Before the joint committee begins an investigation it should meet the MIAB to clear up certain matters. The insurance federation, which is represented on the MIAB, has said that the report was based on incomplete data, as the Minister said. Although I have serious reservations about MIAB's methodology and findings, the report contains no objections from the IIF about these matters. The report states, "The IIF has received copies of all reports for the purposes of checking our calculations but their responses do not identify any mathematical errors."

The MIAB also noted that the IIF has threatened to stop providing the raw data on which the board was working, in which case "the majority of the board believes that it may become necessary to recommend an alternate and more rigorous forum for investigation in this area of public concern". I call on the Government to allow such an investigation, as it could be carried out usefully and successfully by the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, if properly equipped with the necessary powers. This view is shared by my committee colleagues, Deputies Flanagan, Joe Higgins, Batt O'Keeffe and Conor Lenihan, and I ask the Minister to give it serious consideration. It seems that a clear majority on the committee, across all parties, favours such an investigation.

It is also interesting to note that Mr. Michael Kemp, chief executive of the IIF, has said that the federation and its member companies are co-operating fully with the MIAB to establish the full facts. He also stated that insurance companies do not make money insuring young drivers, but the MIAB has found that "on average for the five years 1993 to 1997, every age of policyholder contributed more in premium than claims cost except for the small number of policyholders aged 17 and 18". The MIAB also found that insurance companies were making profits of £211 per policy on people aged between 22 and 24, compared to £60 per policy on those between 46 and 55. Profits of £730 per policy were being made on women drivers aged 19 and 20.

No matter what arguments are made, there is an absolute need to investigate independently and objectively so that a proper assessment can be made. This is a matter for the joint committee, as the credibility of insurance companies' rating decisions is in doubt. The Minister said this House does not need reminding that motor insurance companies have failed in the past. We all agree, which is why this matter should be tackled immediately rather than waiting for the MIAB's final report which is not due until the end of the year. The MIAB's investigations could continue apace without taking from an investigation by the joint committee. There is something amiss when a report shows that the profitability of insuring drivers between 18 and 25 is two and a half times that of insuring drivers in their for ties, and that women and the elderly are also profitable, despite all we have been told in the past. I thank the Minister for his executive summary of the MIAB.

Paragraph five report of the MIAB report states:

Women also appear to be contributing more than their fair share in certain instances. To date we have only received gender data for 1997. This indicates that from age 51, favourable margins on female policyholders are consistently higher. The variance is greatest over age 70 where profits on females is £166 per policy compared to £29 for males, a variance of £137 or 472%. Also, female policyholders aged 19 to 20 delivered a profit of £730 each compared to £186 for males, a variance of £544 or 293%, but the low level of exposure for this age at 1.6% of policyholders may result in high variability from one year to another.

Paragraph nine states:

The Board has asked five companies to explain the manner of their compliance with the Declined Cases Agreement. Copies of correspondence are attached. Two companies have not to date replied so no conclusions can yet be reached on this issue.

I am sure the Minister will agree that this shows a lack of regard on the part of the companies and a huge deficiency in their willingness to be helpful.

Paragraph 11 states:

The problems encountered by commercial motor clients are distinct from those of the private motorist. Businesses are more acutely aware of what they consider unfounded settlements or negotiations undertaken without due consultation with the insured client. The Board recommends that the Insurance Ombudsman Scheme, which is currently limited to private policyholders, should be extended to businesses with an annual turnover of up to £5 million. Such businesses do not have extensive legal resources to pursue complaints against insurers through the Courts. Additionally, to curtail the potential for such complaints, it is recommended that the IIF should agree procedural guidelines with IBEC on the consultations to which all commercial clients would be entitled in the management of their motor insurance liabilities and defences.

The Minister and Senators will recall an interesting debate a few years ago with regard to the insurance ombudsman scheme. I feel strongly that the previous insurance ombudsman was spancelled and hampered by the major insurance companies, although I realise the Minister may have been constrained by all sorts of bureaucratic forces. It would be interesting for this House to look at how her successor is faring. Anything the Minister of State could do to make it easier for the insurance ombudsman would be greatly appreciated by all Members.

Paragraph 13 states:

The Board notes that motor insurance inflation, at 10% is running well ahead of the general trend in the Consumer Price Index. This is the highest rate of increase on record and may warrant consideration in the context of the Government's current deliberations on price control measures.

Paragraph 14 states:

The Board held a very informative meeting with the Data Protection Commissioner on the notion that the rating of motorists for premium charges might be based on their financial profile in addition to the more traditional factors. The Minister specifically asked the Board to investigate this "burdened borrowers" issue. With dissent by IIF, the majority view of the Board is that such an approach would be contrary to public policy but future practice will largely be dictated by EU legislation.

Again, we can see that there are very powerful vested interests involved, which is the reason other right-thinking Members and I would opt for an independent, objective assessment. I hope the joint committee will take up the matter.

Paragraph 15 states: "Having received further documentation from insurers, the Board is of the majority view that not all instalment plans comply with the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act, 1995." We are all for the protection of the consumer. The paragraph continues:

IIF have undertaken to circulate insurers with a reminder of the statutory requirements. As reported previously, the majority view is that the interest rates levied are excessively expensive. Enforcement is now a matter for the Director of Consumer Affairs.

Again, I hope the joint committee will seek an early meeting with the Director of Consumer Affairs, not just regarding this matter, but regarding other issues of concern to the committee which are in the best interests of protecting the consumer.

Paragraph 16 states:

The majority of the Board wishes to re-emphasise the need for a strong Consumer Protection role within the new Single Regulatory Authority. The public is likely to be sceptical as to whether there is any true commitment to their interests unless this priority is supported with appropriate powers and penalties to ensure transparency and fair trading. No doubt the pending Insurance Bill will present opportunities to facilitate such measures. There is also a pressing need for consumer education to assist the making of informed choices in so far as options are available in compulsory motor insurance.

While I appreciate their work, as does the Minister, they also state that: ". . . it may become necessary to recommend an alternate and more rigorous forum for investigation in this area of public concern." There is no argument on either side of the House regarding this area of public concern. I recommend that the Minister of State, whose intentions in this matter are good, allow the joint committee, fairly and impartially, with compellability powers and other necessary assistance, to get its teeth into it. It could do a very good job in serving the consumer.

Regarding Senator Coghlan's comments about the joint committee, I find it strange that any representatives of an insurance company or federation would appear before the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business and lead it to believe, by presenting facts and figures, that the reason for the high cost of insurance is the high costs of young people's accidents and settlement claims. It appears from the findings of the report that it would be better for the representatives to acknowledge the fact that there are findings which would prove such statements incorrect. I suggest to them that there is no easy ride and, following other committee members' suggestions, the Minister of State should allow a two-pronged approach. We cannot have people give misleading information to the committee or not address the issue when the information is not what it might seem. If we allow this to go unchallenged, we do so at our peril. The companies which made presentations to the committee should be asked to come back for rigorous questions and validate the claims they made.

If the industry had full knowledge of the MIAB report, which I believe it did, we cannot have it appear before the committee and put forward the thesis it did regarding the high cost of insurance for the tens of thousands of young people and others in the country. It does not matter if one is young, middle-aged or elderly, the price of car insurance is absolutely scandalous and cannot be allowed to continue.

I am proud of the work done by the Minister of State and his Department. They have addressed the matter in a focused way, attacking each area as they have gone along and establishing advisory boards. It is important to do this as we cannot be accused of being blind to the commercial difficulties that face companies, but perhaps the truth will come out in the next few months. I look forward to this.

Regarding insurance costs for young drivers, particularly young males, there is agreement that much can be done to reduce the number of road accidents. Surely, if we reduce the number of accidents, we can reduce the cost of insurance. Driver education, the introduction of penalty points, road safety improvements and Garda enforcement of the rules of the road are important ways to reduce accidents. As the Minister of State said, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government announced yesterday the introduction of various new schemes to address enforcement, penalty points, increased fines for speeding and so on. That is another way the Government is addressing the insurance issue in a focused, clear and methodical manner. It is only by working in this way that we will see changes and reductions in costs.

There are many implications regarding the consequences of high insurance. Why are we complaining about high insurance costs? What does it mean? Sometimes it means young people in country areas cannot get to work. They cannot avail of employment opportunities in towns 15 or 20 miles from their home base. They may be living at home to look after elderly parents or engage in some part-time farming, but they may also want to avail of opportunities in larger towns some distance away. These opportunities may involve shift work whereby one may have to work late at night or early in the morning, times when public transport, particularly in rural areas, is not available. For this reason they need cars, but if one is aged between 17 and 20 years and living in the middle of the country, while one might buy a car for perhaps £1,500, insuring it may cost between £2,000 and £5,000. That does not make it feasible. The people concerned, therefore, cannot avail of these employment opportunities or progress their careers and become statistics on the live register. This should be condemned.

What often happens is that young drivers will insure the car the first time and not insure it subsequently. Many young drivers are uninsured. That is very well until there is an accident and people get hurt, cars are damaged and innocent parties suffer because the first party is not able to afford the costs. While that certainly does not justify anybody driving without insurance, we can understand why some people take the chance. It is a chance that is not acceptable and it causes grief, pain and much hardship to the innocent victims of road accidents involving uninsured drivers.

Young people may chose motorbikes instead of cars. From a safety point of view, I would prefer to see my children drive cars rather than motorbikes. Many more people are killed and seriously injured in motorbike accidents than in cars. For all of those reasons, which affect everyday lives, insurance costs for young people should come down and become more affordable.

In their presentation to the Joint Oireachtas Committee, the Motor Insurance Justice Action Group suggested having a community rating scheme for young people. Rather than everybody having to pay high insurance, only people who have had accidents should have to pay high rates. However, this may not be possible due to EU regulations and the Minister may have addressed this in his speech.

Many people believe that the reason for high insurance costs is the high claims propensity among Irish people. This is true. We have all come across cases where someone has put in a claim that was not totally false but did not justify the work and effort to prove it. Often cases that are not justified end up in the court, which may find in favour of the plaintiff. People may get money for accidents that, perhaps, they do not rightly deserve. This practice ought to be stopped. People should not go down that route. While everybody has an entitlement to claim, this should only happen where there is justification.

We have also talked about the high delivery cost of personal injury claims and particularly the legal costs. For every £100 paid in compensation for motor accidents a further £40 goes on professional fees. That is a scandalous statistic. I welcome the setting up of the personal injuries assessment board by the Minister. While the interim report came before the Minister last June, this shows that he has conducted his affairs in a very focused and methodical manner and addressed each area step by step in a progressive and proactive way.

The personal injuries assessment board was set up to determine issues of quantum, not liability. Initially, it will look at personal injury cases arising from the workplace and then move on to motor accidents. It is not intended to reduce the awards to victims but merely to reduce the delivery costs. In Ireland, junior counsel are appointed in 57% of cases and senior counsel in 18% of cases. In similar cases in the UK, junior counsel are only appointed in 3% of cases and senior counsel are rarely appointed.

As the Minister mentioned, the number of cars on our roads has risen from approximately 800,000 in 1996 to 1.3 million now. We need to remember that there are more people on the roads and more chances for accidents. Each time we get into our cars, we are responsible for how we drive and for injuries or hurt we may cause to others by not concentrating on what we are doing, by using telephones, by listening to the radio, by being too tired to drive, by not observing the speed limits etc. A car is a potentially lethal weapon and young people, in particular, underestimate the power of the vehicle they are driving.

The Minister mentioned the different regimes in other countries and there was a presentation on these by officials from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to the joint Oireachtas Committee. It is interesting to look at the ways different countries deal with their claims. We are starting to introduce systems here that will eliminate the high cost of paying claims without reducing the amount of compensation paid.

The Irish Insurance Federation said that drivers under 25 account for about 5% of the number of claims but 11.5% of the total cost of claims for comprehensive policies and about 21% of the number of claims but 34% of the cost for non-comprehensive policies. They suggested improving road safety by introducing a penalty points system, improving law enforcement, improving driver training and testing, considering a restricted licence, improving road engineering and providing road safety education. They did not suggest looking at the profitability to see if we are charging people too much and unfairly loading too many costs on them.

Quinn Direct and AXA both made presentations to the joint Oireachtas Committee. The Quinn Direct presentation stated that the largest cost associated with insurance relates to personal injury claims and that there is an unacceptable level of fraudulent and exaggerated claims, which are difficult to weed out of the processes. This point was also made by AXA and the Irish Insurance Federation. They also said that many accidents involving young drivers involve multiple claimants. All of this is true. However, from the interim report we discussed earlier, it appears that it is not true to say that they are not making profits from the 17 to 25 year old group and certainly the people over 55.

In other countries there are different systems. In Quebec there is a no fault system, but citizens cannot pursue personal compensation. We could not implement that here because of Irish citizens' constitutional rights. In the United States, there is a two tier approach using a no fault system under a certain threshold but this does not appear to have reduced overall cost. In the European systems we have seen scales of compensation, which we should examine. In the UK, claims tended to be much lower due to the lower level of damages and the lower legal cost because of less involvement of counsel. We are following that route by introducing the personal injury assessment board. I hope this will result in a change to our whole system.

The Garda made a presentation about the number of accidents in different age groups and the reasons. The main reasons were speed, alcohol related accidents and people not wearing seatbelts, which causes a large number of fatalities and serious injuries. As I suggested at the joint Oireachtas committee, we need to see a better breakdown of the statistics. For drunk driving, they were unable to tell us if they were male or female or young people or old people. If we can break down these statistics, then we can target a road safety promotion campaign at the appropriate groups. For instance, if there are more younger people drinking and driving, then we focus the advertisements at them. If it is the older age group, from 45 to 60, who drink and drive because that was the culture they were brought up in, then perhaps we need to focus our advertising on that area. Until we have statistics to show us in what areas we have the biggest problems, we will not be able to get the best out of our road safety promotional strategy.

The same applies to speeding. On speeding fines, it is important to know the breakdown of who is speeding. Is it young people, older people, women or men? If we can also see the breakdown for seatbelts, including for children in cars, we can better promote and enforce safety. Perhaps we could have more enforcement at various times, such as when there are more women and children on the roads, when women are bringing children to and from school, or when there are older people on the roads, for example, when men are returning from work. We should gather and analyse information on Garda stops and impose fines where necessary.

The penalty points system was outlined yesterday by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey. There will be increased fines and the improvement of the road structure is being addressed which will increase safety.

On the interim report, a copy of which the Minister has given us, with a copy of the executive summary, there are a couple of points I would like to make. One of the very interesting points relates to competition. The board recommended that a website be established by motor insurers and that the insurance regulator would provide on-line quotations across the market. This is very important. I have seen my personal insurance, which is accident free, increase in cost by £250 from last year, for no apparent reason. When I negotiate with the company and tell them I can get cheaper quotes, all of a sudden the price of the policy comes back down. Insurance inflation cannot be running so high – the report mentions the figure of 10%, although I believe it is higher. We cannot allow such practices to continue and the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs has justifiable grounds for looking at this. The Competition Authority should question whether this monopoly should be allowed to persist where it seems that prices can be kept high if only three or four companies quote for the business.

Some of the recommendations of the report could be implemented immediately, especially that of the website. With young drivers, we now have a population that is increasingly computer literate, that uses computers on a daily basis, at work or elsewhere, and they would use the website if it were available.

Another issue is that of insurance companies not fighting claims and making 50-50 settlements without talking to the client. It is the easy way out for the company and it has to be stopped. Now that we have established the personal injury assessment board we will see that it is much cheaper to settle. If there were a more confrontational attitude we would see fewer claims fraudulently settled and much lower payouts. That would help to weed out those who are making unfair claims.

I commend the hard work the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Treacy, has done on the insurance industry. I also commend the work that has been done by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. The key point to this is to continue with a two-pronged approach. The Minister of State needs to continue doing what he must. The joint committee must address the issue with insurance companies and ask them to prove to us that they did not mislead the committee. If they did so, it cannot go unpunished.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Treacy, to the House and acknowledge the enormous amount of work he has put into this area, which I appreciate very much. Like Senators Cox and Coghlan, I am a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business and I was astonished at the difference between the statement given by the members of the motor insurance industry and what emerges in this report. The Senators have ably gone through most of the points that were brought before the committee, but there are two things that I want to point out in view of the difficulties of insuring young drivers.

The first is the impact of changes in work practices of drivers on the incidence of accidents. There are far more doing shift work now and young people in particular may have to take some of the less popular shifts late into the night. It would be helpful to find out how many late night accidents involve young people going out socially and how many involve them going to or from work. We know from other surveys how much more likely accidents are on shifts during the more unsociable hours, when people have been doing night work for a considerable amount of time. It would be worthwhile to increase our knowledge of the statistics there.

I also query what the impact in the change in the delivery system for goods has been. This has not been investigated. It is policy nowadays to have factories running on a just-in-time delivery system. This means that components for manufacturing processes are not in stock for long before they need to be used, as they would take up warehouse space and require payment at an earlier date. The need of firms to receive these goods only when they require them puts a great deal of stress on those who have to deliver them. I heard a woman on the radio a few weeks ago who drives a truck and wanted to upgrade her skills so that she could drive a bigger type of truck, presumably an articulated one. When she was taking lessons to get the necessary licence she was repeatedly told by the instructor that she had to remember and make her deadline. A very large number of drivers seem to have to make deadlines now, be it going to ports or factories, and I wonder if we need to assess the importance of this constant rushing. One can understand it in relation to the delivery of perishable goods to supermarkets, but it seems that a very large number of heavy lorries full of goods for companies have exact deadlines to meet, earlier or later than which will not do. It would be worthwhile to see if there is a problem here. I suggest that some of my constituents in the department of transport and logistics at the Dublin Institute of Technology might be a help. It was they who filled me in on hazard analysis and critical control.

These issues are worth looking at to see if work practice is a factor in accidents. I mentioned this on a radio programme and was phoned by several people who said they found the driving jobs they were given impossible, involving them in unsafe driving. For example, people who have a certain number of shops to visit in the course of a day felt that they were expected to travel at a far higher speed than was safe, in particular on narrow country roads, to fulfil their itinerary.

A considerable number of accidents happen on secondary roads. These will be upgraded at some stage, but it may be important to look at the practices of drivers using them. They may be used by very young people who are keen in their jobs, but being given impossible schedules to meet.

Awards made in personal injury claims involving younger people have to be much greater than with older people because of life expectancy. We must make a determined effort to educate young people. Older drivers have developed bad habits which are, apparently, difficult to eradicate. It is ridiculous that there is only 50% compliance with the regulations on seat belts. People should be prosecuted. If drivers were stopped along Morehampton Road, where I have undertaken personal surveys, it would slow them down getting home, which would be a good thing.

I applaud the penalty points system which should have been introduced years ago. The prospect of losing a licence, not the payment of fines, will make the difference. It is also a good idea to delay drivers if they are speeding or not wearing seat belts. The Garda should not process tickets too quickly, but direct drivers to wait until a number of other cars have been stopped. Anything that inconveniences people seems to be of far more value than imposing fines.

Enforcement of the speeding regulations in urban areas would be worthwhile. According to one survey, 80% of drivers exceeded the 40 mile per hour speed limit, a very high figure. Surely, some of them could be caught. The other difficulty is unaccompanied learner drivers. I congratulate the Minister of State on what he is try ing to do. I am sure he will have the support of everyone in the House.

I congratulate the Minister of State. With due respect to his predecessors, nobody has taken a more hands on approach to the insurance question. I compliment him on publishing the report of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board and hope it is fully supported. The legal profession cannot object to its recommendations because it will cut back on many of its costs. There is one barrister for every four practising solicitors.

When I bought my first car insurance policy with Lloyds of London 54 years ago in 1947, it cost me £15 for third party fire and theft cover, the equivalent of six weeks wages. My weekly wage then was 50 bob or £2.10s. I bought my first car for £25 and insured and taxed it for £3.50. That indicates how much things have changed.

I was involved in the motor trade for over 20 years from 1964 during which time there were numerous increases in the cost of insurance which the PMPA was established in the 1970s to combat. I never insured with it. After Lloyds of London I moved to Norwich Union and I am very pleased to have stayed with it. Thank God I never had a claim or an accident. I am very pleased to have my first open drive insurance policy on my car.

The PMPA was established in a great flurry of publicity to reduce the cost of insurance. At the time garages were ripping off customers. In those days there were no personal injuries claims. When people were involved in a crash their first reaction was to thank God nobody was injured. The garda would attend on his bicycle and give them ten to 15 minutes to resolve their differences, failing which he would threaten prosecution and a court hearing. Generally, people settled their problem at the scene of the accident.

At that time the big problem was the cost of vehicle repairs. For example, a mudguard could cost £20 or £30 to replace, but drivers ended up paying as much as £80 because the garage would make other repairs, such as respraying, it claimed were necessary. This was the main contributor to escalating insurance costs. The PMPA dealt with this by establishing its own garages where all vehicles insured with it had to be repaired, but that did not reduce the cost of insurance and other measures followed to address escalating costs, including the driving test and the imposition of seat belts.

I do not accept the report that only 50% wear seat belts. I am always watching cars on the road and do not see many drivers without them. Replacing worn tyres, the imposition of speed limits, the transfer of claims hearings from juries to judges and the introduction of insurance discs failed to solve the problem, despite the fact that we were told that there were more uninsured than insured drivers on the road. On-the-spot drink driving tests were introduced to speed up testing. Prior to their introduction the driver had to be brought to the Garda station, by which time he had become sober.

Despite these measures, the cost of insurance has escalated and the number of accidents has continued to increase. Car testing has been introduced and the penalty points system is due to be implemented. I hope they are successful.

Speeding is a contributory factor. While many have been caught for speeding, according to my research, most speed traps are set for cars leaving 30 or 40 mile per hour speed zones. Very few traps are set for vehicles travelling into these zones or on main roads. This means that, in the words of a poem, "where there is neither a home, a house or bush", speed traps can be hidden behind gateways or vans in remote areas where drivers are leaving speed limit zones. These could cause accidents, but their sole purpose is to increase conviction statistics. The Garda authorities should look at this matter.

At a motor show in England somebody told me that the police no longer charge people for speeding. They caution them, but if there are two or three cautions the driver receives a summons. In Ireland, there is no such thing as a caution anymore. If there was greater emphasis on prevention and less on prosecution, we would see an improvement. I do not know whether there is competition between the superintendents in charge of road traffic as to who will catch the greatest number of speeding motorists on the main roads and around villages, but the way I see them operating the speed tests it is like a sales competition between salesmen. I am critical of that.

What we need is a highway patrol. On the road I have travelled in recent years, traffic is held up by slow moving vehicles on wet, drizzly evenings and motorists often overtake such vehicles. Although these drivers do not exceed the speed limit, often what they do is dangerous, but it is done out of frustration. If there was a highway patrolman on a motorbike to signal a slow driver to move in and to wave on the traffic, it would release tension and assist the flow of traffic rather than have it held up. This would be better than having gardaí lying in wait with speed guns, which I call hairdryers, hidden under their jackets. Those are some of the measures I would recommend.

One sometimes sees people wearing whiplash collars. A colleague of mine in the House who was stopped at a traffic light in a little country village gently bumped into a car in front and a young child of about 12 jumped out of the back of the car crying, "Daddy, Daddy, I have whiplash"– they are trained at a young age. The driver received about £10,000 in compensation although nobody was injured, as everybody knew, but that is the law. The practice where insurance companies settle claims up to £10,000 encourages compensation claims. We should never have introduced the Bill allowing solicitors to advertise with the slogan "no settlement, no fee", which is responsible for a great many claims. As a result, solicitors are telling claimants that they can get money in settlements without going to court.

I wonder how many of those claimants make money out of such accidents. Having gone to a solicitor, such people can be two or three years out of work and they can lose their jobs. The solicitor can say to them that if the person is short of money, he or she can give the claimant a letter to clear all the person's debts in the bank if the person is prepared to sign an authorisation. Banks are prepared to advance £10,000 or £20,000, depending on the nature of the case and the anticipated settlement, but often when the solicitor and the bank are paid following the settlement the sum left in the claimant's pocket is far smaller than expected. I advise people making a claim to check the bottom line.

There is some very interesting information in the second report of the special working group on personal injury compensation, 2001. A chart in the report shows that there is greater use of courts by Irish plaintiffs than is the case in England and this is followed by greater use of lawyers by insurers. The report states:

Lawyers are seldom used by insurers without the issue of formal proceedings thus the greater propensity to sue is contributing to the costs of personal injury claims.

When lawyers are used there is a greater tendency by the plaintiff's solicitors to instruct barristers in Ireland than in England. This could be due to a number of reasons. One explanation submitted by insurers is that solicitors acting on behalf of plaintiffs are concerned that if a barrister is not used they leave themselves open for the possibility of a professional negligence claim. Another reason could be the lack of specialisation in Ireland compared to England where the legal profession serves a smaller proportion of the population.

A table in the report is interesting. It shows that counsel in Ireland serve less of the population than in England while the reverse is true in the case of solicitors. The report states that there is one barrister for every four solicitors in Ireland and one for every ten in England. That is why I say that the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, will have a problem. I hope all sides and the public support the Minister of State. I hope the claimants will get more money under the new system because they will not need to pay the legal people or the banks. The length of time needed to reach a settlement in Ireland is incredible.

A table in the report also showed that insurers in Ireland used solicitors only in 76 of 315 cases whereas in England the insurers used solicitors only in 38 of 208 cases – the percentages are similar. According to the same statistics, however, in England they use only one junior counsel whereas in Ireland they use two junior counsel and one senior counsel, that is, in Ireland two more professions are used than would be used in a similar case in England. Why is there a need for all these professional people? In addition, in Ireland consultants and medical professionals are also employed.

This is a good report from the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, and I hope it will be widely read. I would like to have time to go through it in detail. It states clearly that the legal profession will not settle a case until it goes to court. They tell their client that they will not settle under any circumstances. However, once the case gets to that stage, they do not want to go into the court. They want to settle on the steps of the court because the barristers handle four or five cases at a time and do not have time to fight all of them in court. Once the barrister gets to the steps of the courthouse his or her costs are covered because he or she must be paid for the brief. This is where the claimants are being robbed.

I did not get a chance to deal with insurance companies, but insurance companies and the legal profession are feeding off one another. Insurance companies pay out claims and then increase the premium. The poor unfortunate policyholder pays the bill and has no choice but to do so. If one wants to drive, one must pay the premium. The cosy cartel between the legal profession and insurance companies needs to be broken because therein lies the source of many of the high claims and many of the problems. The claimants do not get as much as we think. They get much less when the costs are taken into account.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, and compliment him for setting up the Motor Insurance Advisory Board in 1998. However, I have reservations because had we not sought this debate yesterday on the Order of Business and the Waste Management Bill from the Department of the Environment and Local Government, which was to be taken today and was put off until next week, I wonder when we would have debated this issue.

The MIAB report, which was released under the Freedom of Information Act, 1997, was the subject of an article by John McManus in The Irish Times last Saturday. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, stated that the MIAB submitted its interim report to the Department last June. Though he said that the board was conscious that the data on which it based its first report were incomplete and the findings tentative, I had hoped that he would have reacted faster than waiting for the report to become available under the Freedom of Information Act.

There is a difference of opinion in that the Irish Insurance Federation states that the report was based on incomplete data and that it had serious reservations about the methodology used and its findings despite one of its member being a member of the board. Its chief executive stated that the federation and its member companies would co-operate fully despite having stated earlier that the federation would not provide raw data. That is a mess. It is difficult, therefore, to assess the various strands of the IIF. I ask the Minister of State to ensure the approach of the Irish Insurance Federation is examined immediately. If one is a member of the board and co-operates fully, how can one possibly find fault with its workings if this is not stated in its interim report? I ask the Minister of State to deal with the matter as quickly as possible.

Last February I met 125 young people at a meeting organised by the Motor Insurance Justice Action Group and have never met a more sensible group of young people, of whom the majority needed their cars to travel to their places of employment. That is an important point. In the mid-west region in which I live there are young people who commute between 30 and 50 miles to work. Other Senators referred to shift work. Due to the shills shortage, Dell, Vistacon and other multinationals have no alternative, but to operate a shift system and bring workers to the Limerick region from Scotland and other countries.

The cost of motor insurance for young people is astronomical. If we want them to take up employment, we must be proactive and supportive to ensure they are not hit as hard and unfairly, as is evident from the interim report of the Motor Insurance Advisory Board.

While I am not surprised at the three target groups hardest hit, I am, as I said on the Order of Business yesterday, surprised at the targeting of the elderly. The most important sentence in the report is the one which reads that the classification of drivers under the age of 25 years as a non-profitable risk for insurers is now open to question. Members on all sides of the House have been making that case for a long time. The margin as between premium and claims cost was £211 for those aged between 22 and 24 years, the age bracket into which many employees of the multinationals fall, compared to £60 for those aged between 46 and 55 years. A small number of policy holders aged 17 and 18 years have contributed more.

I wish to home in on the highest profit margin, that for policy holders aged between 66 and 70 years. People in this category suffer little impairment in terms of their ability to drive and are required to undergo an eye test. They are the most experienced drivers. I cannot understand, therfore, the reason they are the most penalised. They are not a high risk or do not break speed limits, they have the experience that goes with age. I am amazed that they have been focused on as their earnings in retirement are considerably lower than when working. They are being doubly victimised. I am shocked at this finding.

Data on female drivers for 1997 reveal favourable profit margins for policy holders aged 51 years, They have been consistently higher than those for men. The variance is greater for those aged over 70 years in respect of whom the profit margin for female policy holders is £166 compared to £29 for male policy holders, a variance of £137 or 472%. Data on female policy holders aged 19 and 20 years reveal a profit margin of £730 compared to £186 for male policy holders in the same age bracket, a variance of £544 or 293% . I find this shocking. We hear much about young males needing a car to get to their place of work, but a high percentage of young women work outside the home to meet the demands imposed by high mortgage repayments. I know of many young women who must travel 30 to 40 miles to their place of work and bear the added cost of child care. The Irish Insurance Federation should respond immediately to this damning report and examine what it can do to improve the position for young drivers.

The Motor Insurance Justice Action Group states that young people pay more than £2,000 for car insurance regardless of driving experience or the type of licence they hold. Much annoyance was expressed by young drivers who have not been involved in an accident. They are of the view that they are being discriminated against and victimised. They have been through the mill in seeking insurance cover. The group states that those under the age of 20 years who hold a provisional or full licence will be quoted twice and three times the amount mentioned, which effectively bars them from driving. Some young people have to pay more than £4,000 for car insurance. They cannot afford this level of premium. Many young drivers take out insurance policies to obtain insurance certificates, which is extraordinary. Some fall foul of the repayments, which are large. This means that they will drive while uninsured. These are the facts as relayed to me by the group of young people mentioned. They admitted to this.

It was stated that many people resort to using a motorcycle. As we are aware, there is a large number of motorcycle accidents each weekend due to the serious risks associated with this means of transport. It is predominantly males who use motorcycles. As a result, drivers under the age of 24 years account for only 6% of those who drive regularly compared to a European average of 14%. It should be investigated to ascertain the reason the position is so different here. I do not believe that we are that different. While the ESPAD report reveals that the rate of under age drinking here is higher than in some European countries, we are ranked beside Denmark and others where the motor insurance premiums paid by young drivers are not at the same high level. While young female drivers pay less, young people as a whole pay much more than twice the average car insurance premium of £480.

We could debate forever the difficulties posed by travelling by alternative means of transport. This is as true of Dublin as it is of Limerick, Cork, Galway and Waterford. Unlike young people in other European countries, young people here do not have the advantage of alternative means of transport, particularly if they live many miles from their place of work as many young people do.

It is stated on page 27 of the Irish Insurance Federation's fact file for 1998 that the cost of motor insurance for young drivers is justified by their claims experience. It states that in the period 1992 to 1996 the relative claims cost – a combination of frequency and cost of claims – for non-comprehensive insurance policies was 97% higher for policy holders aged between 17 and 24 years than for policy holders in 36 to 40 year age group. It further states that for comprehensive insurance policies the figure was 66% higher. The first line states that young male car drivers of 17 to 24 years of age account for 10.8% of all drivers killed. Young male car drivers account for just less than 5% of all drivers, so two totally independent sources yield almost identical statistical conclusions.

There is another report from 1996 by the Deloitte & Touche consultants, of which I am sure the Minister is aware, on insurance as a whole. In table 4 of the appendix, it shows that when nine of the leading motor insurance providers were asked to quote third party cover for a driver aged 20 with no previous accident record, holding a full driving licence and driving a two year old 1100 cc Ford Fiesta, the following response was given – this is a fact because it is quoted in the report. One insurance provider quoted £2,029 for a male driver – I state again that this report is from 1996 and one may be sure the figure would be much higher today – and £1,469 for a female driver. However, in the report's recommendations, there is mention only of the need to increase safety among young drivers. These advisers to the business community failed to point out the obvious flaw in the market where, in pursuit of profit, unless they are compelled to do otherwise, companies ignore many segments of the market.

In regard to discrimination against the young driver, many young men under 25 years with five years' accident free driving pay more than £2,000 for insurance and many of them work as drivers for a living, including truck drivers. They have safe driving records and the only reason they are discriminated against is their age. I suppose one could say health insurance is regulated by community rating but age discrimination in the provision of motor insurance should not be allowed. There is also cherry-picking.

Compared to other EU countries, the cost of motor insurance is high in Ireland. There are other statistics in the blue book on the insurance industry compiled by the Government. It states that of £709.9 million collected in premia in 1997, £615.4 million was paid out in claims. The high cost of claims, as many speakers have stated, is an overwhelming factor resulting in high premia. Although UK drivers lodge more claims, the average there – this was in 1994 – was just over £1,000 as opposed to £4,500 in Ireland. The main reason for this according to the Automobile Association is that we have many more accidents that involve serious personal injury than in the UK. There are some inconsistencies, however, in the amounts awarded for similar types of injuries and this is an issue which insurance companies are taking up with the Government. The main conclusion to be drawn from these facts is that improving safety is of paramount importance for all drivers and changing driver habits is crucial.

A lot of research has been done by the motor insurance justice action group, including research on countries such as Canada, Denmark and Australia. A very interesting point it raised is that the best comparison that can be made is with young drivers in the North of Ireland where motor insurance for young drivers is a fraction of the cost in the South. That is something the Minister should consider.

I come back to the sensible approach taken by those young drivers. They stated at the meeting that the Government should set up a company to insure young drivers, that young drivers should have a say in how the company is run and that it might be necessary for good social reasons to subsidise this company. A very sensible point made was that drivers who build up a record of offences for dangerous driving over time should be charged more. They accept that, they are sensible. In regard to one of the main policy proposals in the Road to Safety report, they accept the penalty points system which would trigger disqualification following repeated driving offences. As I am sure the Minister knows, their demand to him is to implement the Road to Safety strategy, as outlined by the Government.

A case is being taken by a young driver under the equality legislation on the basis of discrimination in the provision of motor insurance on age grounds. That discrimination should be banned. Insurance premium penalties should apply only after a proven safety related driving offence has been committed. There should be driver education and the penalty points system should trigger disqualification following repeated driving offences. Insurance for young drivers should be provided by a non-profit-making State company at average motor insurance costs. Does the Minister know of any European country that he could use as a blueprint for a State-run insurance company? I am sure there is something similar in another European Union country.

I have read a lot on this issue. One of the most interesting reports I read of which the Minister may not be aware, although it should be compul sory reading, was Breaking the Law – Education and Safety for Young Drivers Safety, by Ray Fuller of the department of psychology in Trinity College. It is an interesting report because he compares us to the UK. He refers to young drivers and their accidents and whether there are features which distinguish them from other groups of road users, in particular older drivers, which might explain their increased accident risk. He also refers to risk lifestyle, risk exposure and risk seeking and an overestimation of young people's confidence on the road. There is a huge section on learning to be safe and what a driver needs to know to drive safely. There is also a very interesting section on training for safety. A lot of research has been done in third level colleges and at second level, particularly in transition year. A lot has been done to train young people who have reached 17 years of age so they will be better equipped when taking driving lessons and will become more careful drivers.

The Minister should continue in his mission to ensure young people, our elderly population and women are treated fairly. I believe he will respond immediately to this report and that he will not wait until it is too late. I hope he will give a commitment immediately.

May I share time with Senator Glennon?

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I do not have much to say on this issue, which is important and wide-ranging. It covers a lot of sectors within the industry and concerns different sectors in the economy, including the legal profession and those involved in this industry. It is an important industry to the economy and it has to be profitable and sustainable.

The issue of insurance for young people has been in the public domain for many years. It has been the Trojan horse of many Governments. We have a young population with many young people seeking insurance. I take this opportunity to compliment the Minister on the work he has done and the approach he has taken in examining the insurance industry. From reading today's newspapers and the statement from the Oireachtas joint committee, it is fair to say there is something secretive and rotten in the industry that needs to be examined and made transparent in the best interests of the industry and the people who pay for insurance. The public is anxious to see that the industry plays its part and that it is reasonable and fair in its costings and in the service it gives to the public.

I am a parent and have seen quotations which my children have received. The variation was unbelievable. Unless one is an actuary or has a fundamental knowledge of the industry, it is diffi cult to justify and analyse questionable quotations. I saw quotations for house and car insurance in the past fortnight which varied by £800. I accept the principle of competition, which is necessary in the insurance industry, but the difference in quotations is striking and hard to justify.

The Motor Insurance Advisory Board indicated that claims alone were not the problem. The way in which charges are distributed throughout the system and the loading that people must carry for sectors in which there are most claims also present problems. The recent establishment of a body for settling individual claims sets an excellent precedent. The early settlement of claims and basic analysis of what is reasonable in terms of settlement amounts will be worthwhile and should reduce the cost of claims. Sometimes claims are not settled for two to three years, but are costed using an arrears system which increases the overall cost of settlement.

There is a great need for the insurance industry to be more transparent and open. The Government and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment must investigate the industry, whether through the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government or otherwise, to establish where money is generated and spent, what is the profitability of insurance companies, the sectors in which it loses money and how to balance the premiums system. If legislation is necessary, it should be introduced. It is time to examine that option.

Competition in the industry is limited and a closed shop system is in operation. There has been a large number of takeovers and amalgamations within the industry in recent years. Four or five companies are competitive, but only one or two provide reasonable car insurance quotations, particularly for young people. There is a necessity for greater competition. I compliment the Minister of State on his efforts to encourage European companies to compete for business in the insurance industry. It is important that more companies are attracted into the industry. This will lead to more competition and a significant reduction in the cost of motor insurance for young people.

A large number of accidents in the State involve young people. Insurance companies cite this as one of the primary factors for the cost of premia. There are high accident and mortality rates among young drivers, particularly males. I spoke to an insurance broker earlier who told me that it used to cost £1,250 to insure a young person driving a car with a 1.1 litre engine. It now costs more than £2,000. That is a relatively low quotation for a young driver. Insurance premiums are increasing which companies state is because of the high cost of settlement of claims.

The public is very litigious. People have been very much encouraged by the legal industry. Many members of the legal profession generate substantial business from insurance claims and some spurious claims are encouraged. This area also needs to be examined. Prohibition of and responsibility for spurious claims should be provided for in the insurance industry. According to documents I read earlier, an individual in one town made 32 claims. Until we get a grip on the insurance industry and prevent spurious claims supported by legal and medical professionals, we will not get anywhere. All these factors have led to the increase in the cost of insurance. I support the Minister of State's work as he tackles an industry that has been strongly motivated by its own interests for a long time.

I welcome the Minister of State for this important debate. We have called for statements on the issue on several occasions. Young drivers have been treated unjustly and unfairly by insurance companies. It is extremely difficult for young people to face the bills they are presented with by such companies. Given the excessive cost of accommodation people must travel further to their workplaces. It is hard for them when they first join the workforce because once they have bought a car, they are faced with an enormous bill for insurance.

I welcome the opportunity for the House to address the problem and call on the Government, the insurance industry and everybody else involved to solve this serious problem. It is unfair that young people who have invested in their education must overcome this major tax when they take up employment. Insurance is essential, but the cost is prohibitive. Every year newspaper headlines highlight massive increases by insurance companies, but younger drivers are affected most.

There is no point in having this debate unless something is done to address the problems in the industry. Perhaps it is more difficult to address the question of what action to take. New legislation has been put in place. If, as suggested, it is necessary to establish a company to deal with the matter, then the Minister should seriously consider this. Young people starting off in their careers should be assisted. We should view it as an investment, taking account of the fact that they will be paying taxes over a long period. It is unfair and unjust that insurance companies should penalise young people.

I thank Senators Hayes and Chambers for sharing time with me. I welcome the Minister of State and congratulate him on progress with his portfolio. This compliment is not a mere courtesy, but richly deserved. The problem at issue is a very thorny one with which the Minister of State is grappling, but the omens appear to be good. I hope he will be successful in finally resolving this long-standing difficulty in society which has more recently been brought to the fore by the explosion in car ownership, especially among the younger generation.

I particularly congratulate the Minister of State on his recent announcement of the establishment of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. We have been rather slow to follow the successful precedent set some 20 years ago in the tragic circumstances of the Stardust tribunal. That body set an excellent headline and worked very effectively. If I remember correctly, it was chaired by the current Chief Justice. The only other comparable example which occurs to me is the more recent hepatitis C tribunal which has also worked very successfully. I trust that the board which the Minister has now established will exert a very positive influence in resolving the difficulties being encountered by young people.

Senator Jackman commented on the difficulties encountered by the MIAB in the preparation of what I consider to be an excellent report which was framed in very difficult circumstances and based on less than full information. It touches on an aspect of the insurance industry which is worthy of attention. In a situation where it obligates citizens to take a certain course of action, in this instance compulsory motor insurance, the State is entitled, in equity, to whatever data are in the possession of private commercial concerns as a consequence of that State-imposed obligation. If the data are not forthcoming, the State must have rights of compellability to facilitate fair and adequate monitoring of the system. Where any party is reluctant to comply with such disclosure, the penalty of revocation of licence should be seriously considered. I find it difficult to understand any objection to full disclosure, if the business is as unprofitable as the insurance companies say it is.

Let me raise a couple of points in relation to our system of assessing and awarding damages. They are not new issues, but worth repeating. One is the very high proportion of costs tied up in expert witnesses. The new board will have the option of appointing a single expert assessor in instances where under the current court-based adversarial system each side brings in an expert witness on every aspect of the case. I hope the new board will exercise the option of appointing a single independent assessor, thereby, at least, halving the time and cost of expert evidence.

The combined cost of legal expenses and expert evidence has been quoted as representing an additional 40% on top of an insurance award, which is completely disproportionate. I do not doubt the accuracy of the figure which may be somewhat conservative. There are reasonable grounds for believing that far too much of the expense of expert witnesses and lawyers is percentage-linked to the award and offered on a "no foal, no fee" basis. This may be a factor in the extraordinary reluctance of the Judiciary to award costs in unsuccessful cases. The widespread "no foal, no fee" system is, apparently, to the benefit of the individual plaintiff but, unfortunately, to the overall detriment of the community at large. A very small minority of successful plaintiffs are reaping the rewards of the system while the vast majority of paying customers of the insurance companies, those who do not pursue litigation, are being penalised financially. I am glad that this practice will be addressed under the new board.

I trust that, under the new Road Traffic Bill published yesterday, there will be a facility for reasonable levels of enforcement of speed limits. There is no doubt that speed kills. Drink-driving, previously the major threat to road safety, has been tackled effectively in the last ten years. The bravado or machismo associated with drinking, driving and "living to tell the tale" is much less in evidence nowadays. There is now a social stigma attached to driving with alcohol in one's system.

Much of our road signage in the vicinity of Dublin and throughout the country is, literally, incredible. Most signs are temporary, but some are permanent. They lead to a significant and dangerous diminution of respect for signs.

I travel on one of the best known roads in the country, the M1 to the airport, twice a day. At the intersection with the M50 before the airport there is a speed limit of 50 miles per hour. It is a classic case of the law being more honoured in the breach than in the observance. In all my years driving that road – I have been on it six of the seven days per week since its construction – I have never seen a speed trap in the area of the intersection. Approximately 80% of the cars travelling on that stretch are breaking the law even though it is quite a dangerous intersection. There must be enforcement but there must also be credible road signage and speed limits which impose reasonable demands on motorists, thereby creating a safe environment for everybody on the roads.

I will finish on a positive note in relation to the insurance industry. The Minister is aware of the case I will mention. Ten years ago Irish general practitioners were paying between £3,000 and £3,500 for professional indemnity insurance for their practices. A group of activists in the Irish Medical Organisation decided this cost was ridiculous and bore no relation to the risk involved in general medical practice. The group decided to do something about it. Without going into detail, they succeeded in their endeavours. The same professional indemnity insurance is now available to general practitioners at less than half the price they paid ten years ago. That is a remarkable achievement and is worthy of note in the Official Report. It took place against the background of an explosion in the size of personal injury awards and in the cost of pursuing compensation claims.

This achievement was made by a group of committed people who decided the system was letting them down and that they must do something about it. There are now twice as many companies in that business as there were ten years ago. I must disclose a personal interest in this regard because I am involved in one such company. Those companies are operating at a profit. If that can be done in a small niche market such as general practice in medicine, in a business where critical mass, numbers and turnover are vital, the potential returns on road users, particularly in the young market in motor insurance, are enormous.

The Minister is going the right way in dealing with this issue and shows great enthusiasm. It might be inappropriate to wish him God speed, but the country looks forward with eagerness to the eventual outcome. I wish him well.

I welcome this timely debate on motor insurance for young motorists. I read the interim report of the Motor Insurance Advisory Board, which the Minister established in 1998. The greatest ever con job has been perpetrated on the citizens of this country by the motor insurance industry. Year after year, it peddled the mantra that young drivers cause mayhem with the result that the industry had to increase the premiums to such a degree that it virtually put young people trying to get insurance out of the market. That is outrageous, particularly when one discovers that the largest profit from premia is from young drivers under the age of 25 years.

Every young driver between the ages of 17 and 18 years, with the exception of 0.3%, has given a substantial profit to this industry. However, the industry has maligned all young drivers and used it as a justification for high premia in other sectors. Virtually nobody would question the industry because this mantra was offered as the gospel truth. That was a scandal and a fraud. We have been lied to. The Motor Insurance Advisory Board has indicated that it received incorrect, inadequate and flawed data in its attempt to get to the bottom of the problem. It is an interim report because the data were not presented to the board, It has had to go back for more data, correct data which were deliberately withheld from or misrepresented to the board.

The same thing happened to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. Leading figures in this industry came before that committee and peddled the same false information to legislators, Members of the Oireachtas. At least every month Members of this House raised the issue of motor insurance for young motorists but we were never able to secure correct information. We were led to believe that the situation was different from what it actually is in the industry. That is a con job. It is not good enough and I hope the Minister will make that point to the industry. The way the industry has behaved is disgraceful and there should be sanctions as a result.

The industry has deprived all categories of citizens of money, money to which it would not have been entitled if it had presented the correct financial facts. Young drivers under the age of 25 years yielded the highest returns. Elderly people between the ages of 66 and 70 years yielded a profit of 30% while women between the ages of 19 and 20 years yielded a profit margin on the premium of £730. That is colossal.

Why was this interim report sitting on the Minister's desk for the ten months since June? Thank God for the Freedom of Information Act. Without it, we would not know what is happening. It is not good enough that we were given no hint for ten months of the material contained in the report. It is bad enough that the insurance industry deprived us of correct information but it is not good enough that the Minister, who established the insurance advisory board to investigate this matter, retained the interim report in his Department and kept it secret from the public and Members of the Oireachtas. The report is dynamite. How can we deal with matters if they are not brought into the open where they can be dealt with openly and clearly? I would like to have heard about this report earlier, certainly when the issue was raised dozens of times in this and the other House in the past ten months.

There must be a fair premium for every age group. That principle must apply. There must be no loading at the behest of the insurance industry because it can get away with it. It had a mantra about young drivers and all premiums went up proportionately.

We must have up-to-date figures. The insurance industry must provide that information. I hope that the new single regulatory authority will have a strong consumer element and will regulate this industry properly. We should get regular reports on how the industry operates rather than operating in a cabal on the nod and wink within its own circle, to the detriment of the public.

I wonder how many young drivers have been unable to get to work or hold down a job across the city or country because the vehicle they purchased, or plan to purchase, is worth a fraction of the cost of the premium that is quoted, perhaps £2,000 or £3,000. This is colossal. When we compare the figures with other countries, we know in our hearts that Irish drivers could not be as bad as the industry paints them. Now we have the proof, let us act.

An interim recommendation is for a website for on-line quotations. The industry supports this by pooling together to set up a joint website. This means less competition because the companies will establish a monopoly. Five major insurers have set up Insacom, a company to run the system for insurance brokers. The last thing we need is a new monopoly. Anti-competition regulations should be applied here.

Although we were misled by the insurance industry, there is still a major problem with road accidents, which occur daily. It is time we had a penalty system. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government is introducing such a system in forthcoming legislation.

This issue must be fought on all fronts, including in legislation, to weed out dangerous drivers. We must ensure that the decent majority are not discriminated against and that tens of thousands of people are not put off the roads by the premiums quoted to them by the insurance industry.

This is an interim report and the final report will be published by the end of this year. We expect a substantial response from the Department to it.

I welcome the Minister to the House and compliment him for his genuine efforts to ensure that young drivers get realistic premiums. I also thank the Leader for allowing statements on this matter today. It is timely in light of the interim report.

It is incumbent on all of us as legislators, and the Government, to ensure that young, intelligent, educated drivers get the best deal from insurance companies. We are dealing with ruthless insurance companies which have been ripping off young people for years. They charge them immoral premiums.

Hear, hear.

Young drivers fortunate enough to live in an affluent society need cars for work, social, and domestic purposes. It is a shame that insurance companies, as Senator Costello stated, have done a con job on all of us for years. They treated the joint committee, and indirectly Members of both Houses, with contempt. They misled the public, young people and their parents, who are forced to subsidise their children's premiums, and it is time they accounted for their actions.

It is astounding that representatives of the insurance federation peddled the line recently to a joint committee that the reason for the high premiums is the young drivers' accident rate and that they lose heavily on such premiums. In a comparison made of the average earned profit per vehicle year, from 1993 to 1997, between the figures given by the insurance federation and those from the advisory board, in 13 of 17 different categories the board gave an upward adjustment of profits. That must be borne in mind. It is difficult to understand that.

The federation has been ordered, if that is the word, to give full disclosure of data to the board by the end of this week. If it does not, it will be compelled to do so by the Minister or the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. If necessary, there should be a DIRT type inquiry into this scandal, which can be added to the others we had. It is shameful for insurance companies to behave in this way.

It is timely also that this week a Bill was published to introduce a penalty points system. What barometer do insurance companies use in attaching premiums to young drivers? They shoot first and ask questions later. They load everyone with a high premium. It is time to level the pitch. The penalty points system is an excellent barometer to judge the capabilities and records of young drivers. There should be a set premium for young drivers and if they commit traffic offences, a company is entitled to load the premium. Thousands of responsible young drivers, more responsible than the previous generation, should be given the opportunity to prove that they are good drivers who respect the rules of the road, and their premiums should drop accordingly.

A penalty points system should be introduced as at present we have no barometer of who is a good driver, which results in all young drivers having to pay the maximum premium. Anyone who tries to get a motor insurance quotation can ring up four, five or six companies and receive a different premium from each one, ranging from £500 to £3,000 or £4,000. Such inconsistency means that something is radically wrong within the insurance industry, which is something I feel strongly about.

Everyone should ensure that young people get the best deal. Insurance companies should put forward the facts and admit that they have made profits from young drivers. I understand that a loss is made in the case of 17 to 19 year old drivers, but they represent a small percentage of insured drivers. Lady drivers are also being victimised, according to the report.

We should not have a debate or issue statements for the sake of it, and I call on the Leader of the House to ensure we revisit this matter in three or six months so progress can be monitored. We must ensure that insurance companies tell the truth. I look forward to the completed report, as matters must improve for young drivers. I compliment the Minister of State on the manner in which he has handled his business and for the genuine interest he has shown. He cannot do it on his own, as he needs the full co-operation of the insurance industry. I appeal to the Irish Insurance Federation to give young drivers a better deal.

I join Senators in welcoming the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, to the House. I congratulate him on the efforts he has made on behalf of young drivers. Media reports during the past few days highlighted the insurance industry's responsibility to drivers and to the community. Although companies obviously need to make a profit, they seem to have reneged on their duty to provide a quality service. Recent reports are a great cause for concern, as it seems that contradictory information has been given to the Oireachtas joint committee. I agree with requests that the IIF return to the committee to answer questions so that we can make a real effort to solve this problem.

If one was to believe the motor insurance industry's statements of recent years, they are justified in increasing premia, particularly for young people. Insurance companies have taken advantage of the increase in the number of young people driving cars to form a cosy cartel to ensure premia remain at an elevated cost. This week's publication of the Road Traffic Bill, including its provision for a penalty points system, provides an opportunity for insurance companies to work with the Government to improve the situation. I welcome the introduction of a penalty points system, as it seems to have been beneficial in the United Kingdom. It has reduced fatalities and focused the minds of drivers on keeping their vehicles in working order and on driving sensibly. We all have bad habits, but in an affluent society the fear of losing one's licence is greater than the fear of fines.

If insurance companies are looking for innovative ways to reduce premium costs for young people they should use the penalty points system to assess how good a driver is and to set the cost of premia. I agree with Senators who said that it appears as if companies pluck a figure from the sky when setting premia, particularly for younger drivers. We all have anecdotal evidence of drivers being quoted more for an insurance premium than his car is worth. The penalty points system is a way of assessing what premia should be, which would focus drivers' minds.

Power and speed are the major attractions of driving for young people, although they are less likely to drink and drive than the older generation who sadly give a bad example. Insurance companies should reduce the cost of premia for smaller cars for young drivers. Perhaps the Government will put a speed limit on younger drivers for their first year of driving – although it may be seen as dramatic and draconian, it would help them to build experience and would make the roads safer. I can understand that insurance companies need to have high premia for a driver's first year, but they should reward drivers who have not made a claim by reimbursing them.

It seems that insurance companies are increasing premia regardless of age or experience, but young people's minds would be focused and their driving would be more careful if there was an incentive to do so. There is no justifiable reason for increasing premia for drivers who have not made claims. A number of my constituents have contacted me to say their insurance costs £200 more than last year, even though they have not changed their car. The company will decrease the price if one mentions that one has telephoned other insurance companies, which makes one wonder about customer service. Unfortunately, the industry has been operating a cartel for a number of years which means that a monopoly exists. The time has come to take on these companies and to make them answer questions.

I welcome the setting up of a Personal Injuries Assessment Board. Although I appreciate that it is aimed at reducing the cost of providing compensation to injured parties, I fear that increased costs will be consumed within the claims. Insurance companies say that there has been an increase in premia because more insurance claims are made, but they have admitted that it costs less to agree a settlement without investigating injuries.

I was involved in a minor accident some years ago at 8.30 a.m. when on my way to the Seanad. The other individual insisted on an ambulance being called, though they were released from hospital two hours later. The accident occurred on a Wednesday at 8.30 a.m. and at 10 a.m. the following Friday I received a letter from a solicitor to say that I was being sued for injuries and damages. A blind man could see that something was wrong. If a person was traumatised and injured in an accident, the last thing that he or she would do on the same afternoon would be to run to the solicitor, but that is what happened. Two or three months later I received a quotation from my insurance company and my premium had trebled. When I raised the question of the claim, I was told that it was none of my business. When I asked who was going to pay the premium, the insurance company said that I would. I then asked how it could be none of my business if I was the one paying the premium and demanded to know how the case was going, but, apparently, insurance companies do not need to inform policy holders about cases which involve them, even though it is the insured individual who will have to pay the increased premium.

I have a particular personal difficulty with insurance companies in cases such as this because when I questioned the individual's injuries, I was asked if I thought I was a doctor and when I stated that there were no difficulties with the car, I was asked if I thought I was a mechanic. The companies should have a responsibility towards those paying insurance.

I welcome the Personal Injuries Assessment Board and I am waiting to see how it works because I am fearful that its costs will be contained in insurance prices. I congratulate the Minister of State on his efforts, but the time has come for insurance companies to play their part.

I can think of no person who is more appropriate for this debate than the Minister of State, given his background in the insurance and financial services industry. His track record in the Department is second to none.

Motor insurance costs have been a matter of public debate for many years. I remember in the last ten years the insurance industry looking for certain measures to be taken on a national basis which would allow it to lower insurance costs. I remember the industry's first step into the arena, when it wanted the Government to exclude the jury system for claims in car accidents, as that would enable insurance costs to drop dramatically. That was done, but we did not see much difference after that concession.

The industry then wanted a change in the levels of alcohol with which people would be allowed to drive. There were a series of such concessions, but the industry failed to lower insurance costs. It then stated that the high numbers of inferior cars on the road were causing accidents and a national car testing system was introduced at its behest to improve cars and bring the number of accidents down. This was to lower premiums, but instead of going down they went up. The industry now wants a penalty points system, which it will get, but the same situation will apply: insurance costs will go up.

I take comments from the insurance industry in the last ten years with a grain of salt. The Irish motor insurance industry should be the subject of a public sworn inquiry. It has entangled itself in bureaucracy that not even Government Departments can untangle. The ultimate insult was when the Motor Insurance Advisory Board was of the view that it would have to disband because it could not secure the necessary information.

The industry is a disgrace. It complains about and blames young drivers; yet, it has used a cartel, hidden facts and made false promises. These matters should be the subject of a full public sworn inquiry, as that is the only way to extract the full truth. Not all young people are bad drivers; I am aware of this from my own family and neighbours. I am aware that there are statistics proving a percentage of young males are bad drivers, but not all young drivers are bad. The industry has picked on certain sectors, such as the young, to its own advantage. It has creamed off in this regard for many years and had public sympathy, but recently it has been exposed.

Another sector which the industry has tapped into to line its pockets to an immoral extent is the taxi sector. Once the Government deregulated the sector and local authorities assumed responsibility for issuing taxi plates, the insurance industry saw it as an opportunity to cream off. I understand anyone starting off in the taxi business under the new deregulation system has not been quoted less than £6,000 and most have been quoted prices between £7,000 to £15,000 to insure their taxis. In one case a recognised taxi operator with four cars on the road paid £3,000 for one car last year and received a £9,100 premium for this year, even though he had had no claims. He challenged this and after discussions with the insurance company it dropped the premium to £4,500. What kind of industry operates on this basis? It is an absolute disgrace.

I do not know what the Minister of State or the Government can do, but if someone is providing a service for the public in the European Single Market, there must be some regulations governing how they operate. The regulations or guidelines under which this industry has been operating are not transparent or fair to the driving public and should be investigated.

I welcome the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. I am not sure if it will be able to make a dent in the existing bureaucracy, but it is interesting to note that for every £100 paid out on a claim, a further 40% can be added for expert fees such as lawyers and assessors. Surely, one cannot stand over adding £40 to every £100 for assessment and legal fees. That must be one of the greatest shams in the State. We have broken down some false walls in recent years and this is the time to give this industry one hell of a shake-up. Whatever the Minister of State decides to do, he will have my support and that of this House with legislation or, if necessary, a public inquiry in order that we can start from a safe and firm footing and establish a proper industry that would have the support of the public who would get a fair deal.

I pay special tribute to all the Senators for the sincere, open and frank commitment to this important debate. The inferences drawn by the Motor Insurance Advisory Board are on the basis of incomplete data. We need full data to see if these inferences will be borne out. The Irish Insurance Federation has agreed to provide the raw data by the end of month. I have no reason to believe they will fail to do so.

The Motor Insurance Advisory Board has established its bona fides from the point of view of the consumers and the insurance policy holders. Their interests are best served by permitting the Motor Insurance Advisory Board to continue its work and bring it to a conclusion in its report at the end of this year. I look forward to that report. I am confident that it will be factual, concise and clear. It will give the Government focused recommendations, which we can act on.

I am entirely sympathetic to Senator Paul Coghlan's view that the various issues highlighted in the board's report require independent investigation. I respectfully submit that the Motor Insurance Advisory Board is performing that function and will continue to do so. In fairness to the insurance industry, the findings of the board were tentative and confidential. The insurers may have felt that they were unable to refer these findings to the joint Oireachtas committee as referred to by Senator Margaret Cox.

I agree with Senator Cox about the difficulty experienced by young people, especially in rural areas. I am very conscious of these difficulties and am aware of the predicament of these people. I have sought and will continue to seek ways to moderate their insurance costs.

Senator Cox's experience on increases in insurance premiums underlines the advice our officials always give consumers who call our Department complaining about the high cost of insurance. Over the years, we have received a huge number of complaints from many people pertaining to costs and other issues relevant to the insurance industry. We have tried to address those, particularly through the Insurance Act, which is now in vogue. Our officials consistently advise people not to accept a premium increase automatically but to shop around. The fact that consumers can shop around and do better shows that there is competition in the market. We consistently support competition and advise consumers to seek quotes from various insurers.

Senator Henry talked about late night accidents. I do not believe that Garda statistics will distinguish whether those involved in accidents were coming from work or a social occasion. I agree with Senators Henry and Cox that better statistics would be helpful and the Motor Insurance Advisory Board would be delighted to get accurate statistics. We are very fortunate to have an excellent board on which the Garda Síochána is represented along with an eminent statistician, which is very helpful for the board.

Senator Henry also talked about commercial traffic having deadlines to meet. In the modern global environment everything is JIT – just in time. Particularly in the products services area, people are trying to make deadlines before companies close in the evening. Transporters try to make ferry shipping deadlines and are also trying to make deadlines on their return with a backload. All of that creates congestion, pressure and problems.

When putting the Motor Insurance Advisory Board in position I made sure it was representative of the entire transport and motor industry and everybody impinging on it so that the final report would be sustainable, transparent and operable in effecting changes. We are very proud that we have an outstanding chairperson in Ms Dorothea Dowling, who is the claims manager in Córas Iompair Éireann and who has 15 years' experience in both London and Dublin.

Other members of the board include the chief executive of the Society of the Irish Motor Industry, the chief executive of the Driving Instructor Register, the chief executive of the Consumers' Association of Ireland, the chief executive of the National Safety Council, the chief executive of the Car Rental Council of Ireland and other people representing facets of the public service including senior officials from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Department of the Environment and Local Government and the principal officer from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment heading up the insurance division. There are also representa tives from the Irish Road Haulage Association, a chief superintendent from the Garda Síochána, a representative of young drivers, a major businessman representing IBEC, representatives of the private bus industry and the coach tourism industry, and a senior statistician from the Institute of Art, Design and Information Technology in Dún Laoghaire who previously served on the National Roads Authority. We have a person representing accident victims along with two representatives from the Irish Insurance Federation and a representative from the Insurance Brokers Association of Ireland.

I have beefed up that board over the last six months to ensure that we could bring the industry with us. By having them on the board we can get the maximum information from them and have it assessed by quality people affected by decisions taken by the insurance industry. We have given a deadline to the industry to commence the delivery of the necessary information and as that unfolds and becomes available, I am confident that the board will be able to do a critical analysis of it and come up with a solid report.

Personal injury claims are naturally greater for young people. That is a factor that contributes to higher costs for young drivers. Senator Willie Farrell mentioned that claimants often do not get the full amount of the sum awarded. That is very true. High administration costs, legal costs and expert witness costs erode the awards.

I was involved peripherally in one case concerning an important businessman where he was told to settle for £50,000 by his legal advisers. He fought that and it was eventually settled for £5,000 on the basis that the legal costs would be carried by the other side. There had to be a discussion among the lawyers as to whether they could agree to that. It took three years for the case to come up after a spurious incident took place. Of the £5,000 to be paid, the legal fees came to £4,950 and the innocent person, who took the spurious case, went home with £50 in their pocket. That is what we are up against. This is why we created the new Personal Injuries Assessment Board. This will allow claimants to benefit from speedy and transparent settlement with greater predictability in awards.

Senator Farrell quoted excellent figures, both historical and current and I can add to them. In 1970, when I was 18 years old, my first car insurance cost me £40. My first car cost me £160 and my wages for a full six day week were £7 gross. Things have moved on somewhat since then. The huge surge in insurance premiums is no doubt attributable to the high rate of accidents and the huge awards that are being made. Cases go on over a long period with many professional players involved inflating the ultimate payment. The length between the lodgement of a claim and the conclusion of an award is adding to the crisis and that is something which must be looked at it.

Senator Mary Jackman referred, as did many other Senators, to the IIF not co-operating with MIAB. Problems in the provision of data have arisen for a number of reasons, including technical difficulties. The important thing is to facilitate the board in verifying and analysing complete data so that full conclusions may be drawn. Senator Jackman points out that the board found that the subject of young drivers' insurance is now open to question. We await the analysis of the reliable data being made available to us, and to the Motor Insurance Advisory Board, to see whether or not the tentative indications can be confirmed. Bear in mind that insurance is about the pooling of risk, thus those who do not have accidents pay toward the costs of those who do. That is a very important message for everyone.

The Motor Insurance Advisory Board is endeavouring to establish patterns of claims experience. When they have completed their work it will be possible to assess authoritatively the insurance industry's quoted views. I agree with Senator Jackman that addressing claim costs is important, hence the publication this week of the Road Traffic Bill, 2001, and the initiative to set up the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. She says that we should establish a State-run insurance company, but that would have serious problems as it would end up insuring the worst risks. All the best risks would opt out of the pool, as would be their right under the EU treaties.

Moreover, we are debarred, by European Union law, from establishing a State-run insurance company. The market rules and must be allowed to evolve. If a State-run company were set up it would be challenged under the state aid rules of the European Union. It would not be possible to force anyone to buy insurance from such a company, it would get only the worst risks, become a loss leader, a major drain on the taxpayer and ultimately a major factor in increasing national indebtedness. We had the ICI, the PMPA/PMPS and the State had to bail them out. The taxpayer is still paying the price for these debacles. We cannot have another and we will ensure that the commercial market is a competitive one which gives consumers the choice that they require. In a modern economy, State involvement in this area would be absolute lunacy and anyone who comes up with that idea is not in the real world. The financial services regulatory authority will be operational next year. It is intended to have a strong consumer focus and be committed.

Senator Costello referred to many issues pertaining to the report, including my handling of it, and I have to say that in fairness to the insurance industry they have endeavoured to co-operate with the board. The incompleteness of the information is largely due to technical difficulties. We cannot accuse the industry of lying. I have regularly dealt with them in a frank and tough manner, but by and large they are very fine people and they have not deliberately lied on any issue. I stand over my decision not to release the report because of the incompleteness of the material. How could I as a Minister, acting on behalf of a Department responsible for a facet of economic activity, allow a report into the public arena as though it were the bible on which the entire industry was run?

It was an interim report, although I had expected a final report. The board responded to me with this interim report last June and outlined to me the problems. I studied it in July after the Dáil recess started. I read it in great detail and consulted with the senior officials in the insurance division and the Motor Insurance Advisory Board. I was asked if I would extend the life of the board to give them another six months to complete the work. We entered negotiations, had a serious meeting in October and felt that we were making serious progress with the industry. I then realised that it would take at least a year to compile the information that was needed. I have signed the necessary warrants, extended the life of the board to 31 December next, and I look forward to having the final report before next Christmas.

That is how this evolved. There has been no effort by me, or anyone on my behalf, to cover anything. We have re-established that which was allowed to lapse in 1993 and revamped it from a three person board which was basically a mouthpiece for the industry. There are now 20 members and it has major involvement in the assessment of this issue. My priority is to allow the board to proceed on the basis of reliable information and I remind the House that the information is commercially sensitive. It is the stock in trade of the insurance industry and we have to be very careful.

I pay tribute to all the speakers, particularly Senator Finneran who fully endorsed the work I am doing with many of his colleagues. He has often been in touch with me on these issues and we have dealt with youth groups through the Senator to see if we could reconcile some of the problems they had pertaining to the insurance industry. We will continue to work with the Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas to ensure that we make progress in this area.

I am heartened by the interest shown in the matter by participants in the debate. The tentative conclusions of the MIAB were based on incomplete data. When reliable data have been analysed the board will be in a position to present well-founded recommendations to the Government.

A reference was made in the course of the debate to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. I fully support the work of that committee and a dual-pronged approach. Through the Motor Insurance Advisory Board we continue to assess and analyse in order to come up with the final recommendations. It would also be of major benefit if the committee were to continue reviewing the information it has thus far and analysing the interim report. If it wants to have further consultation with the insurance industry I would welcome that, as would my Department. I assure the House that we will urgently progress the necessary action on these issues and I look forward to coming back early next year to discuss this issue again after I have considered the final report that will be brought to my attention hopefully before Christmas.

Mo mhíle buíochas do gach éinne a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht. Le cúnamh Dé beidh mé ar ais arís agus beidh níos mó eolais againn ar an ábhar seo.

When is it proposed to sit again?

Next Tuesday at 2.30 p.m.

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