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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 11 Oct 2001

Vol. 168 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Order of Business today is No. 1, Law of the Sea (Repression of Piracy) Bill, 2001 – Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 20 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes. Senators may share time.

The Order of Business is agreed, but I wonder why the Leader sets time limits on such Bills because very few Members will exceed the time provided. Yesterday I pointed out to him that ten Bills dealing with terrorism would be taken shortly. He indicated he would inform the House about the Bills and when we might expect them. If he does not have the information, perhaps he could circulate it after the Order of Business.

The Shannon issue will be raised on the Adjournment later, but there is a general desire that the entire Aer Lingus and Shannon issue should be debated fully next week if the Leader can organise it. Will he come back to me regarding a debate on Northern Ireland, which was requested yesterday?

I commend the Minister for Health and Children on the initiative and campaign he has launched against binge drinking and excessive drinking, especially among third level students. This problem is growing ever more serious and I am appalled at the extent to which the drinks companies have targeted students at third level institutions. Hard liquor as well as beer is being thrown at students. There is scarcely a student event currently that is not sponsored in some form or another by a drinks company. This is an entirely cynical, almost criminal, move by the drinks companies, which are targeting people who are vulnerable. They are, in part at least, contributing to what is a major problem and it will be an enormous problem in years to come. I ask for a debate on this subject, but the message should also go out loud and clear to the major drinks companies that they have significant responsibilities and profit must not be the only motive.

I refer to the need to have a discussion on what is happening in Aer Lingus, which I also raised yesterday. The reason I again ask the Leader to consider this is that there are seriously important strategic, industrial and social reasons for the House to express its view on the issue. I am being careful not to go into the issues of the day, but it is a function of the House in a representative capacity to focus on issues of national importance. We should, as a House, discuss this issue today to ensure our views are clearly understood outside the House and outside the country. That can only happen if we articulate our views in the House.

Workers and industrialists in various other sectors are waiting to hear from the political leadership of all parties. It is not an issue on which we will divide along party lines, although there are people with different views within parties. However, everybody recognises this is a serious crisis and in the context of the European Union's influence on Ireland, the need for flexibility in European regulation and other matters come to the fore and it is crucially important that we address them. For that reason I ask the Leader to make a commitment that the issue will be discussed later. We should not wait until next week. People will have adopted positions over the weekend and we will have lost the opportunity to influence policy and decision making. I ask the Leader to bring forward the debate on this urgent matter.

I support the call by Senators O'Toole and Manning for a debate on Aer Lingus at the earliest opportunity, which is today. I know Senator Taylor-Quinn has tabled a motion on the Adjournment in regard to Shannon Airport, but the situation at Aer Lingus has deteriorated rapidly with the proposed loss of 2,500 permanent jobs and 700 temporary jobs, which equates to 40% of the workforce, in an accounting exercise as a result of the projected downturn in passenger numbers. This seems to be an upward curve which is associated with the new policies that have been put in place. There are questions to be answered about how the Government is dealing with management and without consultation with the unions. The last thing we hope it does is hide behind European Union regulations. We need a full discussion to bring this matter into the open. Given that the legislation we are discussing today is not of monumental consequence and could be done relatively rapidly, we should spend the afternoon discussing this issue which is of concern to everyone.

I call for a debate on an issue which has been raised by other people on a number of occasions and which is also in the daily news, namely, the banking service. I introduced legislation in the House earlier this year to try to establish some criteria which the banks would have to meet before they could close branches. However, the situation seems to have deteriorated since then. We are not only talking about the closure of branches but about the withdrawal of services. There is a need for a full discussion on this issue, particularly given that the post office network is also at risk in terms of the provision of financial and other services to the community. I ask the Leader to facilitate such a debate.

I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on the supply of drink in schools and colleges. It is a big problem and it is the gateway to other drugs. It is causing untold hardship for people. We have had many debates on this issue but we should have another one. We should make schools aware that they have a responsibility and they should not allow the drinks business to give free drinks in schools and colleges. Those who do that are no better than the drug pushers who give free drugs to people until they get them hooked on them. They must act responsibly. They can sell drink in the open market but they should not do so in schools and colleges. The Government should pass a Bill prohibiting drink in any school or university.

As regards Aer Lingus, a man put forward a good proposal on the radio this morning that it should sell shares because many people would put £1,000 or £2,000 into it. This would arouse our patriotism. Many people, including myself, would be delighted to put £2,000 into it.

A total fairytale.

There are enough patriotic people to help Aer Lingus to resolve its problems. I appeal to the unions to invest some of the millions they have hoarded in Aer Lingus rather than criticise it.

I ask Senator Farrell to bear with me.

They should be positive and put their money where their mouth is. I am sure many Members support me in that call.

The points the Senator is making are more relevant to the debate which has been sought.

Perhaps the Leader will tell me when we can expect to see the disability legislation which has been promised for a long time. He undertook to inform me about the timescale but, unfortunately, I have not received a response. This is becoming more urgent every day. I would appreciate if legislation could be introduced in this Chamber as soon as possible.

I support the Members who called for a discussion on the drinks problem and anti-social behaviour. I have experience of dealing with young people who are preparing for the transition from second to third level education and I know how vulnerable they can be. Sponsorships and attractive social outings lure them into a false sense of confidence. There is a huge responsibility on the drinks companies to take this into account. A debate in this House would create awareness of the issue.

I also support the call for a debate on the banks and the fact that they have reduced their services, particularly to senior citizens. I listened to the radio this morning and the replies given by the spokesperson for the banks were not satisfactory. I call for a discussion on this issue to make the banks aware that they may need to review their new policy.

I support the calls for a debate on the impact of the drinks industry, particularly on young people. It is a finite market, yet it continues to want to expand it. That can only mean they must push the customer to higher levels of drinking, which are dangerous. The targeting of young people, particularly young women, is outrageous. One has only to look around the streets of this city and many provincial cities and towns any weekend and also in the middle of the week to see the type of scandalous behaviour which is encouraged cynically by the drinks business through advertising, sponsorship and deliberately targeting vulnerable people. It is completely wrong. It is not like people pushing drugs, as Senator Farrell said, because alcohol is a dangerous drug. The Pioneer Total Abstinence Association has known that for a long time.

I also strongly support the calls for a debate on Aer Lingus. It is our national carrier which gives a service that the other yellow pack airlines do not provide. It is an important element of our tourism industry as it is an ambassador for the country. It has had rotten management for a long time and the workers should not be penalised for this. A woman from the catering section was on the radio this morning and she said Aer Lingus is outsourcing catering, although it has the staff to do it. Aer Lingus meals are often bought in from Germany while our workers are left idle.

I would prefer if the Senator did not enter into the detail which would be more relevant to the debate which has been sought.

I support the call for a debate on the banks. I also heard the radio programme and I laughed like a drain when I heard David Holden say there was general customer satisfaction. I do not know what type of customers he meets, but I have not bumped into him recently and I doubt if he has met too many other customers. We are furious with the lack of service we get from all the banks. They do not want flesh and blood customers cluttering up their nice little banks. They just want machines. They are driving the customers out. We are asylum seekers in our own banks. We are driven out, like asylum seekers, to queue in the rain where we are exposed to danger and to being mugged while, as taxpayers, we are paying to safeguard their money.

I support the call for a debate on the withdrawal of banking services to the public. I also raised this issue last week. It is time for the Government to deal with this issue, particularly as it affects rural towns with populations of 600 and 700. It is time for the Government to take a lead and decide how services, including post office services, will be provided in the future to sustain our young and old population.

I ask the Leader in his capacity as a member of the Oireachtas joint committee on broadcasting to inquire about the television coverage of this House. It is often the next day before the nation hears anything that is debated in this House. We had an important debate yesterday on a national issue which will have an impact on the nation, namely, the commissioning of a new facility at Sellafield, yet it did not get any television coverage last night. It is a contemptible way to treat this House. The Leader should buy curtains for the cameras here.

I support the call for a debate on Aer Lingus. I appreciate the difficulties we are facing in terms of the deepening crisis in Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus is our national flag carrier in the skies. It is not essential that the debate takes place today, but it should take place as soon as possible. This crisis has deepened rapidly in recent weeks and it will not be resolved within days. It is of such national significance that the debate should take place as soon as possible.

I want to propose an amendment to the Order of Business in order to take statements on Aer Lingus today, as No. 1. This issue has been debated in the Dáil and is being debated nationally. The only place where it is not being debated is in this House. I am glad to see that Senator Liam Fitzgerald will obviously support this motion. We are debating the Law of the Sea (Repression of Piracy) Bill which, quite honestly, is not a matter of enormous urgency. I do not hear a great deal about pirates doing damage out in Dublin Bay, whereas the Aer Lingus situation is an emergency.

I also wish to add my voice to those who have so eloquently called for a debate on the banks. It is an issue of huge public concern. Silver-tongued spin doctors from the Bank of Ireland were on RTE Radio today, apparently to explain things which they really did not explain at all. It would be useful to have an all-party inquiry in order that bankers could answer questions here. If we are serious about it, let them come in here and sit in the Minister's chair to answer questions from Members of the House about what they are doing and why they are bullying the public because that is what is happening. They are also taking money from them under false pretences. We should seriously consider this. I am fed up with making constructive suggestions about bringing people in here, while the Leader says it is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges where the matter is discussed in secret, behind closed doors, and we never hear any more about it. We should see action in this House and a more transparent response on issues of that sort.

I second Senator Ross's call for a debate on Aer Lingus today. As almost every Member of the House has called for a debate on it, we all recognise the urgency of the situation. I am a great supporter of Aer Lingus because at least when things go wrong the company apologises, which I find somewhat comforting.

Senator Manning was right to send congratulations to the Minister for Health and Children on the initiative he has taken regarding the appalling amount of drinking which is promoted in third level institutions at this time of year. It is a serious issue and the Minister has made a definite effort this year to ensure something is done about it. Senator Ormonde says, rightly, that she knows very well how serious the issue is.

Senator Manning inquired about the ten proposed pieces of legislation which are at an advanced stage in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I hope I will have this information for the House next Wednesday. I made an inquiry about the matter earlier this morning.

Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Farrell, Norris, Ross, Liam Fitzgerald and Henry all called for a debate on Aer Lingus. Prior to the Order of Business this morning I was in touch with the office of the Minister for Public Enterprise. The Minister is attending the Dáil this morning and will be at Dublin Airport later to meet various groups from 1 p.m. onwards. It is of the utmost importance to have the Minister present for such a debate, and I can give an assurance that this matter will be debated in the House next week. The longest possible time will be afforded to all Members to make their contributions. I would like to have arranged the debate for today, but it is of the utmost importance to have the Minister present. The Minister is anxious to attend the House to participate in the debate and inform and update us on the position. For that very reason I ask Senators Ross and Henry who have proposed the amendment to the Order of Business to accept my undertaking that this matter will be debated in an open-ended manner next week.

Senators Manning, Farrell, Ormonde, Norris and Henry offered their congratulations to the Minister for Health and Children regarding the problem of binge drinking that is now common practice in third level institutions. We should give a good example in this regard. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform might consider an amendment to the relevant Act in relation to the abuses taking place in these institutions. During the years I was always taught and was of the opinion that a fit body meant a fit brain which gave one confidence. As a nation, we have been very successful in the sporting world, but fitness has no place where drink is involved. I accept Senator Manning's proposal for an all day debate on the current massive abuse of drink. Among younger workers up to 40% of disposable income is now being spent on alcohol, which can only lead to major problems in the not too distant future if something is not done about it.

Senators Costello, Ross, Ormonde, Norris and Chambers called for a debate on banking services – or, as one Senator said, the lack of them – post office networking and related problems. I have already given a commitment to make time available for such a debate.

Senator Keogh raised the Disability Bill. I understand the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Wallace, is on record as having said that the Bill will be published in December. As soon as that legislation is published, I will seek to have it initiated here, if possible. That is the up-to-date position.

Senator Caffrey mentioned the broadcasting committee. It is my clear understanding that Seanad Éireann is afforded 25% of all broadcasting time on "Oireachtas Report", although I know this has not been the case in recent weeks. There is an unwritten precedent that the Dáil gets the major share, followed by the day's work in the Seanad. No committee of the House is to be taken before the business of the Seanad. I will certainly be in touch with the relevant authorities and the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Séamus Brennan, about this matter after the Order of Business this morning. I take Senator Caffrey's point concerning the Gas (Interim) (Regulation) Bill that was initiated here, and yesterday's statements on the MOX plant at Sellafield. I will bring the matter to the attention of the relevant authorities to have it corrected in order that the Seanad will be properly covered as the second parliamentary chamber.

Senator Ross has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business that statements on Aer Lingus be taken before No. 1. Is the amendment being pressed?

Order of Business agreed to.
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