Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 22 Jan 2013

Vol. 220 No. 3

Order of Business

Senator Maurice Cummins

I also welcome back all Members for this session. I have the sad duty today of extending a vote of sympathy to our colleague, Senator Deirdre Clune, on the death of her mother who passed away a few days ago and was buried this morning. As she was the wife of the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, I am sure all Members will join with me in extending our sympathy to Senator Clune on the sad passing of her mother.

The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re planning and development (planning enforcement) general policy directive 2013, to be referred to the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht; and No. 2, statements on local government reform, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 5.45 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply to the debate not later than 5.35 p.m.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

I welcome the Cathaoirleach, the Leader and all my colleagues on all sides of the House back to what I hope and am sure will be a very productive session. On behalf of the Fianna Fáil group, I pass on our deepest sympathy to Senator Clune and her family on the recent passing of her mother. We certainly agree with the Leader's sentiments.

I do not intend to go into the specifics of it, but, like all of my colleagues, I am absolutely disgusted by the judgment made yesterday in a brutal case of rape, incest and child abuse that took place over a prolonged period. I am no lawyer, but as a layperson and citizen, I cannot understand why a sentence of only 12 years would be given, why nine years of that sentence would be suspended on grounds of good behaviour and ill health and why the judge would then give this individual leave to appeal the sentence.

Senator David Norris

The judge made his reasons very clear.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

He made his reasons very clear, but I raise the matter in the context of-----

An Cathaoirleach

I am sure the Senator is aware of the separation of powers.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

I certainly am, but I want to broaden the debate with regard to sentencing. While the judge made his reasons very clear, people in his position have a duty of care to citizens, including that lady who waived her anonymity to go to court and stand up to her abuser but received no protection from the justice system. Frankly, I am disgusted. I will move on from this.

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot talk about individuals.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

I will move on from that, but I express my disgust and that of my party at that sentence. I call for a debate on an independent sentencing committee. My colleague in the Dáil, Deputy Niall Collins, and Councillor Jim O'Callaghan have prepared a Bill that would establish an independent sentencing committee to which cases such as this could be referred. Guidelines have been set down in many areas and judges have guidelines for sentencing. In cases such as this, however, in which it is patently obvious that the sentence or judgment handed down was not correct or in which people are questioning a sentence, an independent sentencing commission could be established. Sentencing in general, rather than the specific case, should be discussed here with the Minister for Justice and Equality.

Where stands the Minister for Health's yellow pack nurses scheme? I was horrified to read his comments in The Sunday Business Post in which he stated that should 1,000 graduate nurses not take up places at salaries that are 20% lower than those of their counterparts, they could emigrate or, in his own words, prop up counters in fast food restaurants across the country.

That type of flippant, glib remark is completely out of place for the office he holds. I support the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation in its campaign to advise graduate nurses not to take up placements under this scheme where they will be paid 20% less for doing the same amount of work done by colleagues already in place. The merits or otherwise of the scheme must be debated in the Seanad, particularly given that the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, wants to expand it into other areas such as physiotherapy and occupational therapy.

Senator Aideen Hayden

I, too, welcome colleagues back for the new year and express my sincere sympathy to Senator Deirdre Clune on the loss of her mother, the wife of the late Peter Barry who achieved great things for this country, particularly in his work in Northern Ireland.

I refer to the inauguration this week of the US President, Barack Obama. I was struck by the number of things we have in common with elements mentioned in the President's speech. He pointed with great confidence to the green shoots of economic recovery in the United States. I was also struck, on the same day, by the comments of IBEC which noted that Ireland, too, was seeing signs of recovery in the domestic economy. Today we had news that house prices have stabilised which is good news for the economy, as well as word from both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste in regard to moves to extend the term of maturity of our loans which will also help the economy.

What was very inspiring about what President Obama said was his words to the effect of "A lot done; more to do". He highlighted the issue of equality in American society and I was struck by some of the issues he raised. This brought home the fact that on the same day the Irish Cancer Society stated that poor people in this country were twice as likely to die from cancer as people brought up in middle-class areas, which is down to nothing but their poverty and social inequality. What we do not need to have in the coming year, when we see signs of economic recovery, is business as usual. The reality is that during the Celtic tiger years these levels of society had almost the same amount of unemployment as they do today. We have a lot to do to change inequality in Irish society.

Another group in society specifically mentioned by President Obama was gay and lesbian people. He also highlighted the position of women. Again, we cannot stand up with any distinguished record when it comes to matters of equality for certain groups in our society. I would like to think that in the coming session which we commence today this Seanad will make significant strides to improve the position of those in society who face inequality, whether that be social and economic or based on their gender or sexual preferences. As a start to that agenda, will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to attend the House, not in the context of his brief on justice but of that on equality in order that we may have a serious debate on inequality in our society? We face very trying times in regard to our own survival.

Senator Rónán Mullen

Like Senator Darragh O'Brien, I wish to be very careful in how I make my point in regard to yesterday's sentencing, being very conscious of the separation of powers. Will the Leader arrange a debate in the House on sentencing policy, to involve the Minister for Justice and Equality, and with a particular focus on how we can maintain and ensure the confidence of all of citizens in sentencing matters? I would be the last person to call for a hang-'em-and-flog-'em approach to criminal justice and realise judges have many factors to take into account when they are considering whether and for how long to suspend sentences and issues in regard to leave to appeal and the granting of bail.

I am very conscious that women in particular take note of sentences such as that which was handed down in the past day or so. I mean no disrespect to the judge, but women wonder when a sentence such as this is passed, whether it is connected with the existence of a largely male Judiciary and whether there is a full understanding in our society of the gravity of offences, particularly the offence of rape. Therefore, it is appropriate that in this House we draw very serious attention to what was decided. We respect the role of the judge and we respect his integrity in the way he does his job, but the fact remains that something very serious and disturbing was decided. I am referring, in particular, to the granting of bail in a case such as this, guilt having been established. I request the Leader to make time available in early course for a debate on this matter.

We are all supporting the Government's initiative on The Gathering, but I do not think the it foresaw the gathering that took place in Merrion Square last Saturday when 25,000 people - representing what Mr. Mickey Harte described as the middle ground of Irish society - expressed their serious concerns specifically about the Government's proposal to legislate for direct abortion on the grounds of suicide threat. It was made very clear at that event that people on the pro-life side of the argument find it deeply offensive when it is suggested that they are not concerned with saving every woman's life. Everybody agrees that women are entitled to all necessary medical interventions. We heard at the recent hearings that took place in this very Chamber that this happens in this country every day, even when it is foreseeable that the child's life will be lost, but to legislate for abortion on the basis of a threat of suicide is to legislate for something for which there is no medical evidence. It is to legislate for the direct targeting of an innocent human life. We should have a debate in this House because, as good as the hearings were, priority was given to members of the health committee. They did a very good job in so far as it goes in ventilating some of the issues, but it was very clear from those hearings that there was no medical basis for abortion on the grounds of threatened suicide.

Senator David Cullinane

That is the Senator's opinion.

Senator Maurice Cummins

It is the Senator's opinion.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

That is why we need a debate.

Senator Rónán Mullen

I advise Senators who disagree to read the transcript of the health committee meetings. This debate is only beginning, as we saw last Saturday. The Government is beginning to lose the argument. It needs to get back in touch with the middle ground of Irish opinion.

Senator Martin Conway

I do not wish to comment on the case that other Senators, including Senator Darragh O'Brien, to which have alluded. In general, however, for less serious crimes than the one we are talking about, the principle of restorative justice needs to be considered. In this country restorative justice has been piloted in two areas - south County Dublin and Nenagh - and it is now being established in north Tipperary. The results have been quite interesting: 63% to 64% of people who participate in a restorative justice programme do not go on to reoffend. The prisons are completely overcrowded. We have seen articles in The Irish Times in the past few days stating that prison is not a solution for all crimes. There are ways in which the victims of crime can engage with the perpetrators, particularly for petty crimes. In some cases, it may be the first time a perpetrator has offended, and engaging in a restorative justice process with the victim of his or her crime may allow the perpetrator to achieve an understanding of the offence and of the stress and trauma his or her actions have caused. I would like to see the roll-out of the pilot programme nationally. I call on the Leader to have a debate this term on restorative justice, because it is a principle developing internationally. There is best practice in places such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada. We face economic challenges and this is a way of providing a cost-effective penal system that respects the dignity of all people.

Senator Marc MacSharry

I agree very much with the sentiments expressed by previous speakers. A debate on sentencing is most important. When certain sentences are handed down, we can see that the Judiciary does not have the appropriate guidance or sufficient options to arrive at the outcomes that are clearly required in certain situations. We can see evidence of that this week.

I support that call.

I join my colleague, Senator Darragh O'Brien, in asking for a debate on the issue of the graduate posts which the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, has suggested. It is ridiculous in the extreme and downright unfair if this proposal goes ahead. Senator Hayden has rightly called for a debate on equality. The Minister is proposing to pay certain people 80% of the wage for 100% of the work. This is fundamentally wrong. Lincoln called it slavery; Nelson Mandela called it apartheid. Is the Government going to do the same to the graduates of this country?

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

Fianna Fáil did it. That is why we are where we are.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator MacSharry to continue, without interruption.

Senator Marc MacSharry

The Sunday Business Post has reported that the troika will say, "Sorry, all future employees need to be paid 80% of the salary". If the State cannot afford to pay its employees, if it cannot afford to pay the people in these Houses, then so be it. The level of public sector pay across the board needs to be reduced, to come down. However, do not say to our brightest and most intelligent and youngest who will build the future of this country that they will do more for less while we enjoy the spoils. That is slavery in any other language.

Senator Mary Moran

I convey my condolences and those of everyone here to the family of the late Deputy Shane McEntee. I got to know Deputy McEntee when I first came to the House. His support to me, as I am sure, to other colleagues also, was outstanding. I remember specifically on one occasion when he was in the House for the Adjournment. He approached me after the debate and offered me his assistance on the matter. He served his constituents of Meath East and the whole country with 100% commitment. The number of people who attended his funeral was a testament to the high regard in which he was held. His death raises other questions and may result in a call for further debates in this House on bullying, cyberbullying and the issue of suicide. This is an issue which needs to be highlighted. We need to continue to work on this matter.

I agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien. I wish to raise the concerns of many people and support groups. I listened to one chief executive officer of a support group who was very upset over the lenient sentencing yesterday. The man in the case admitted that he had raped and sexually assaulted his daughter over a period of ten years, including, unbelievably, on the night before her First Holy Communion day. That is significant in itself. The accounts of this crime are horrific. Nine years of the sentence on this man were-----

An Cathaoirleach

I have ruled already that individual cases may not be discussed.

Senator Mary Moran

I call on the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to come to the House for a debate on the issue and the need to review the laws surrounding crimes of rape and sexual assault. I speak as a woman. It is very difficult for a person who has been a victim to stand up, waive her right to anonymity and then get the result achieved yesterday.

Senator Sean D. Barrett

I echo the sentiments of Senator Moran with regard to the late Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee. His address here on 15 November 2012 was remarkable for the commitment he showed with regard to the attempts to save the country from ash tree disease. Everyone in north Meath on Christmas Eve felt the tremendous outpouring of sadness. Our sympathy is with his family, mother, wife and children.

I commend the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland for their meeting in Belfast last week on the flags issue. A political solution is obviously required. The situation has been very damaging to the island of Ireland, in particular the images being shown in the past few days of people taking to the streets. Tourism and trade have been affected. Public funds have been diverted from other vital social needs to pay for policing.

The Tánaiste and the Secretary of State are to be commended for trying to find a political solution to that problem.

Senator Catherine Noone

I join colleagues in saying I would very much welcome a debate on sentencing and the interesting restorative justice proposal put forward by Senator Conway. We must have regard to the fact that the judge gave such clear reasons as to the reason he came up with this particular sentence.

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot discuss individual judgments.

Senator Catherine Noone

We are not, but it seems all the other speakers have discussed it.

An Cathaoirleach

We can discuss the broader issue of sentencing but not individual cases.

Senator Catherine Noone

The Director of Public Prosecutions has the power to appeal the leniency of a sentence and I hope that will occur. I join colleagues in calling for a debate on the issue.

I also wish to raise the issue of HMV and all that went on over the Christmas period and to express dismay at the fact that it sold vouchers the day before it knew it would be going into administration. It also raises the wider issue of the purchase of vouchers in the economy. As a nation we are purchasing Groupon and City Deals vouchers on an increasing level as shown by figures published today. We should have clear guidelines on this area. When consumers purchase vouchers they should be aware of the terms and conditions that apply to them to protect against them suffering a loss. It is difficult for businesses to function when they are being undercut in such a huge way by the operation of such vouchers. This is a matter we could usefully debate in a wider debate on consumer protection.

Senator David Cullinane

Senator Hayden eloquently referred to President Obama's inauguration speech and his reference to inequality in society. It would be useful to have a debate in this House on the issue of equality. The Senator specifically mentioned the position of women and equality for women, with which I would agree, but where does that sit with the Government's proposal to force 1,000 nurses to take a pay cut of 20%? The nursing profession is mainly driven by women. We will see the displacement of 1,000 nurses who are already in the system. They will be asked to step back or they will be sacked or have their contracts terminated and replaced by 1,000 workers who will be asked to work for 20% less. This is what Irish Ferries did and the State rallied against it, and there was universal acceptance from across the political divide that what was happening was wrong, yet we see the State is doing exactly the same to these nurses. These are not graduate nurses but newly qualified, registered nurses who have come through their training. They have already seen a cut in their fourth year graduate placement from 80% to 60%, and that will fall to 50%. As they take up work, take on mortgages, provide for their children and all the other things individuals need to do, they are being asked to do so on €22,000 a year and take a €4,000 pay cut. That flies in the face of what the Government has said about not cutting pay in the public sector. What it is doing is targeting some of the most vulnerable people, graduates coming out of college and especially people who do very difficult work.

This is an issue of equal pay for equal work. Those nurses are on the front line doing exactly what qualified nurses and those who are there for a long time do. This is a harebrained scheme that needs to be abolished. The Government should listen to what the INMO and the PNA are saying on this because this is fundamentally an issue of equality.

Senator Marie Moloney

I also extend sympathy to Senator Clune on the death of her mother and to the family and colleagues of the late Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee.

I welcome the initiative put in place by the Minister for Education and Skills to combat bullying in schools, but we must be mindful that most bullying takes place outside school.

With that in mind, I ask parents to be very vigilant and monitor the social media activity of their children in the home because bullying follows them into the home via Facebook, e-mails, texts, etc. Although I acknowledge we have had debates in the House on bullying, the issue is so important that it should be kept to the fore in the House. I look forward to many more debates on the issue in the coming months.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

I wish to be associated with the vote of sympathy for the late Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee. As Fianna Fáil's spokesman on agriculture, I developed a close working relationship with him. He was more than courteous and at all times acknowledged issues that were brought to his attention. He was one of the gentlemen of politics and I was very saddened to learn of his passing. I sympathise with the Fine Gael Party, Mr. McEntee's colleagues and, most important, his family, including his wife, children and mother. The period prior to Christmas is a very difficult time in which to experience someone passing away, not least a man with the exceptional character of Shane McEntee. May he rest in peace. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam uasail.

Let me refer briefly to two issues, the first of which concerns food safety and the finding of horsemeat in burgers. The issue is escalating. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland was quick to point out initially that there was no safety risk, but, as a food technologist, I found that to be contrary to the best intentions of the agency because we do not know where the horsemeat has come from, despite the fact that the Minister and Department were very quick to blame other European countries. It now transpires that the horsemeat did not come from those countries. We do not know where it came from or how it entered the food chain. This escalating crisis is damaging to Ireland's €24 billion agrifood industry. There is a lack of urgency being shown by the Minister and a lack of transparency. Consumer protection rights are being infringed. We need an urgent debate in the House on the matter.

I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to the House to have a specific debate on septic tank registration. The deadline, 1 February, is approaching. The Minister is asking everyone to register, but he has not yet published the standards. I have attended four meetings in County Donegal on the issue over the weekend. The public are very dissatisfied with the Minister and want clarification on the process. The Minister should extend the deadline. I ask the Leader to arrange a discussion with the Minister on this topic as quickly as possible, this week or early next week, so as to obtain the required clarification and, possibly, postpone the deadline for two or three months to give people an opportunity to pay.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I welcome everybody back for the new year.

I would like the Leader to invite the Minister for Justice and Equality to the House. He has many portfolios but we need his wisdom on what happened yesterday in respect of his justice portfolio. I refer to what justice, when tested, means for victims, including women and children. Why is the conviction rate for rape and child abuse in Ireland as low as 5%? This is not acceptable. On 3 March 2012, with others, I raised in the House the issue of the fairness and proportionality of sentences, referring again to the issue of rape. Let us do the woman associated with yesterday's case the honour of having a debate on this issue.

Senator Darragh O'Brien said something that may be deserving of merit, namely, that there may be a need for some type of independent committee on sentencing. We cannot let women or children be treated this way. We have just held a referendum on children in which the nation said every child matters. I do not believe there has been justice. I am not commenting on the case in question. Let us change the circumstances that obtain; that is our job.

Senator David Norris

I strongly support calls for a debate on sentencing. It would be very interesting to consider the possibility of an independent sentencing committee, but my colleagues should be very careful before being driven by sensational tabloid newspaper headlines.

It is very unfair to the Judiciary and victims. The young woman in this case showed extraordinary courage in the most appalling circumstances and one's sympathy and admiration must be extended to her.

With regard to these kinds of judgments - I will place it in a general context - one must bear in mind that some members of the Judiciary bear a disproportionate burden. The justice concerned hears 70% of all rape and murder cases heard in the State. There is a difficult relationship between the judge and the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Court of Criminal Appeal.

An Cathaoirleach

That is not a matter to be discussed this afternoon.

Senator David Norris

Yes, but I am making the point which must be made in defence of the Judiciary-----

An Cathaoirleach

They are independent offices in which we have no input.

Senator David Norris

-----that what has happened repeatedly is that sentences have been found to be too severe and returned on appeal when they have either been reduced or quashed. That is what we are dealing with. To blame the judge is utterly wrong and it is not a function of this House.

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing individual cases.

Senator David Norris

I say this as someone who has consistently spoken out on issues of child abuse and incest and all the rest of it. However, we do not do a service if we do not face the facts and if we let ourselves be driven by tabloid headlines. That is why the Judiciary deserves respect and, at the very least, to have its judgments examined and looked at dispassionately, not simply taken up from a headline.

I compliment the Irish Independent journalist Dearbhail McDonald. The reason I am speaking out passionately is that I heard her speak with great clarity on this issue this morning. She did us all a favour by highlighting the important, significant elements of the judgment; otherwise I might have felt the same way as my colleagues.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is way over time.

Senator David Norris

I was very taken by the fact that President Obama, for the first time, used the word "gay" in an inaugural speech. He also spoke about gay marriage. It is significant that an Irish priest has been silenced-----

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Senator David Norris

-----and is about to be excommunicated for daring to raise questions. All we hear about is respectful dialogue. However, the agents of a curious state which, like the point in geometry, has a location but no dimension are attempting to force him, as happened during the Inquisition, to recant and violate his own conscience. How about that for bullying?

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

I was recently at a sports event at which I noticed a young man performing very poorly. I asked his coach the question, "What is going wrong with young Johnny?," to which he replied the shift work was killing him. I asked him what he meant by "shift work" and he said that Johnny was a doctor. I thought it would be appropriate for me to highlight the plight of junior doctors working in the most difficult conditions owing to cutbacks. At a time when the Irish Medical Organisation is about to pay out on a pension deal worth in excess of €9 million to its CEO, junior doctors are routinely asked to work 60 hours a week and some shifts lasting up to 36 hours. They are finding it very difficult to retrieve their overtime pay. An EU directive in 2004 dictated that EU workers should not work more than 48 hours a week. Obviously, this instruction is not heeded in Ireland. Some surgical doctors are required to work from a Saturday morning through to the Monday evening - a 60 hour shift. Surely this cannot be safe. It is only a matter of time before an exhausted junior doctor makes a major mistake, perhaps resulting in the loss of a life. Junior doctors are normally allocated a break, but some of them do not even have enough time to eat or drink. At times they have to choose between eating or going to the bathroom.

One of the reasons for the shortage of staff is that most of our graduates emigrate to countries where they find better work conditions. That is a disgrace when one considers the investment the taxpayer has made.

An Cathaoirleach

Is the Senator calling for a debate on this issue?

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

I call on the Minister for Health to indicate if there are plans to examine this entire area in the near future with a view to improving working conditions and preventing these junior doctors emigrating.

Senator Jim Walsh

I agree with a number of my colleagues in regard to sentencing, but I am very taken by what Senator Healy Eames said because she identified the nub of the issue, that is, the very low level of prosecutions with regard to the heinous crime of rape. Many of us were appalled by the barbarism involved in the attack on a young woman in India recently, but many of those crimes committed here are not reported or if reported they are not successfully brought to prosecution. That is an area that should be examined and I ask for a debate on it.

I noted the comments of the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, on radio yesterday when she was responding to the significant rally that took place in Merrion Square last Saturday where 25,000 or 30,000 protested against the forthcoming legislation with regard to abortion. She made a point which I echo, that is, that all debate in this area should be done in a respectful fashion, but she omitted a couple of words which must be added to that, namely, that it must be both respectful and truthful. I found the comment that she was unaware of anybody who wanted abortion on demand disingenuous. She does not have to look beyond members in her own party both in this and the Lower House to find them; we could name them for her if she needs them to be named. We need truth and must face up to this issue-----

Senator John Gilroy

On a point of order-----

Senator Jim Walsh

-----and I ask that the Minister be invited to the House to allow us to have a good, open, honest debate on this issue rather than-----

Senator John Gilroy

On a point of order, I have to ask Senator Walsh to retract the last statement. It is outrageous and wrong.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

What is wrong with it?

Senator John Gilroy

Nobody in the Labour Party is in favour of abortion on demand and to suggest otherwise is outrageous.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Walsh's time is up.

Senator John Kelly

I offer my condolences to the family of the late Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee. In the few dealings I had with him I found him to be a gentleman. I offer my condolences also to Senator Deirdre Clune on the passing away of her mother.

I support calls by Senator Darragh O'Brien for a debate on sentencing in the House as a result of what we have seen happen in recent days. It is outrageous that a girl had been raped for ten years and the perpetrator is walking the streets-----

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing individual cases.

Senator John Kelly

-----while last year a man was sent to jail for failing to pay import tax on garlic. There are inadequacies in the system that we must debate.

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot discuss individual cases.

Senator John Kelly

On the broader issue of criminal justice, in that debate we should examine an issue I raised in the House recently, namely, the availability of free legal aid to criminals. I called for a "three strikes and you are out" system here last year and I reiterate that call. It is outrageous. There is no such thing as free legal aid. The bottom line is that we are paying for it. Serial criminals should not be allowed to come back to the courts time and again having committed crime and avail of free legal aid.

We should examine also the cost of incarceration of prisoners and make them pay for it. When they are released, we should bill them for their time in jail, either by way of deductions from wages or social welfare payments, but the taxpayer should no longer foot the bill in that case.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Fáilte romhaibh ar ais, a chairde. Ba mhaith liom cur leis na teachtaireachtaí chomhbhróin maidir le bás máthair an Seanadóir Clune agus, go deimhin, na teachtaireachtaí céanna a sheoladh chuig clann agus cairde an Aire Stáit, an Teachta McEntee. Fear uasal ceart ab ea é. Bhí mé ag déileáil leis go rialta ar an Athló. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

Ba mhaith liom freisin daoine a fháiltiú go dtí bliain na Gaeilge. Tá Seanadóirí a dhéanann go leor iarrachta ó thaobh na Gaeilge de, ach b'fhéidir go ndéanfaidh siad iarracht breise an Ghaeilge a úsáid sa Seanad i mbliana, mar gheall gur bliain na Gaeilge atá i gceist. This year, 2013, has been designated Bliain na Gaeilge.

If any Member has a cúpla focail, he or she might try to use them in the Seanad during the year.

I add my sentiments to those of Senator David Cullinane on the issues raised by the INMO on the nursing debacle. It is appalling and obvious from correspondence received by the INMO that it was a cutback made by stealth and it is one which certainly must be debated.

On numerous occasions I have called on the Leader to invite the Deputy First Minister and the First Minister to address the House. Such addresses would be more pertinent than ever in view of what has been happening in the last month or so to provide us with an update on the position in the Six Counties. It would be a very interesting time to have a debate on a Border poll, an issue on which Sinn Féin launched a campaign during the weekend. It would be a very fruitful debate. I welcome the DUP's statement today that it would have no issue with the holding of such a poll. I would like to see where the Government, Fianna Fáil and Independent Members stand on this one. It would be a worthwhile debate to have with the First Minister, Mr. Robinson, and the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness. I also call on the Leader to invite the Tánaiste to update the House on the current position in the North and the Government's response.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

I am not surprised the DUP wants a Border poll. The findings of recent polls by Queens University Belfast show that half of Sinn Féin supporters want to stay in the United Kingdom.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Where do you stand on the issue, Jim? Let us see what would happen in such a poll.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Senator Jim D'Arcy

I join my colleagues, Senator Mary Moran and others, in offering sympathy to the family of the late Deputy Shane McEntee who was a generous and warm-hearted individual. When I experienced my own political dark nights, he was the man who was most in contact with me. He kept me going.

At the RDS this morning I attended Showcase 2013, the exhibition of craft products organised by the Crafts Council of Ireland. I was very impressed by the range and quality of the products of Dorothy Matthews of Corona Silver from Readypenny, Gareth Mallon from Omeath and Sarah McKenna of Dundalk Ceramics.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is being parochial.

Senator Jim D'Arcy

This exhibition could travel around the whole country, but there is a problem. I ask that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation be invited to come to the Seanad to establish whether certain things could be done for the craft industry. First, in the year of the Gathering, could the rate of VAT be reduced during the summer months for this export-led industry? Second, could the JobBridge scheme be extended to include sole traders? Most of those involved in the craft industry are sole traders. Through the JobBridge scheme, they could train and employ people who would have a craft at the end of nine months. This is something we should consider strongly.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú

Each day on the Order of Business the House receives a great deal of bad news. Personally, I find bad news very debilitating. Will the Leader consider setting aside half an hour on the Order of Business for the giving of good news? There is a very significant amount of good news. To give an example Senator Jim D'Arcy touched on Showcase 2013. It would be well worth everybody's while walking down the aisles in the RDS to see what is on display.

When we listen to the President of the United States deliver his inauguration address and subsequently the suggestion that he will come back to Ireland, possibly for the JFK commemoration, we know that the most powerful leader in the world is still thinking about Ireland. We know about The Gathering and can see the momentum coming in behind it. It is not centralised, it is throughout the country, in locations everywhere in Ireland. We talked about our great progress in the peace process. I sat here for ten years during which we in this House were virtually crying into the beer because of the Troubles in the North of Ireland. Through the tenacity and character of the people we made a breakthrough in the peace process.

It is the task of the Opposition to hold the Government to account. That is all right. I suppose we also play to the lobby outside but people listening to our deliberations would like to talk about the real Ireland. I visited Drogheda with Senator D'Arcy last week and all I heard about, in every place I visited, was the effort being made by the local community, not looking to the Government for help or assistance but asking what they could do for themselves. They attributed much of that attitude to Senator Feargal Quinn who had been there. For heaven's sake, let us get our act together and try to be positive because if we are not positive here we will only promote negativity where there is already too much of it, too much suffering, too much worry. It is time we gave the leadership to lift all the boats a little higher.

Senator Lorraine Higgins

I wish to raise an issue that Senator Noone raised, in respect of the HMV voucher scandal. In the past few days I have spoken to several customers of the chain who bought vouchers as Christmas gifts only to find now that they are worthless. It is quite clear that HMV has taken unfair advantage of thousands of its customers in Ireland by allowing their stores to continue to sell gift vouchers and cards when it well knew that there was very little or no prospect of those vouchers or gift cards ever being redeemed by their customers. In effect that made millions of euros worth of vouchers in Ireland worthless overnight. Now it seems to be applying different rules to its UK customers. While the writing was on the wall for the company, directors and management must have known that it was at real risk of failure, yet it continued to sell these gift cards and vouchers throughout the Christmas period until the day it went into receivership. That raises serious questions about the management and the directors of the company who must have been aware of the real risk of receivership given that it is my understanding that they had been in talks with their banks since early December.

We must be mindful that obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence and by allowing the stores to continue to sell vouchers and gift cards when the company knew there was no prospect of their ever being redeemed this could arguably be a grounds for a criminal action. In the circumstances I call on the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, who has responsibility for consumer affairs to come into the House to discuss and debate the legality of what this unscrupulous business has done and foisted upon many thousands of unsuspecting customers, and to discuss the necessary steps which must be taken to strengthen our legislative armour in this regard.

Senator Cáit Keane

Aontaím leis an Seanadóir Ó Clochartaigh maidir le 2013 - Bliain na Gaeilge. Caithfimid uilig ár gcúpla focal a úsáid. Ba mhaith liom, ar mo shon féin, mo chomhbhrón a dhéanamh leis an Seanadóir Deirdre Clune agus a clann ar bhás a máthair. Ba mhaith liom chomhbhrón a dhéanamh freisin le clann Shane McEntee ar a bhás. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

Freisin, maidir leis an méid atá ráite ag an Seanadóir Ó Murchú - I have to say this in English because some Members do not have their headphones on. In addition to what Senator Ó Murchú said about positivity and good news, we must include honesty. If we are honest as politicians, people will have much more respect for us. I would like to bring the positive news that nobody has mentioned today about a significant decision made by the Eurogroup last night, in respect of the European element of the EU-IMF programme and the €85 billion bailout bill that this country has to foot.

We are all honest and all in this. Not all of the country was to blame, but the Government and everyone else had a role. I was part of another party at the time, Fianna Fáil. The €85 billion bailout is being corrected by the Government. Only because it is being corrected could this positive decision be taken at EU level. It is only because of the commitments signed up to by the previous Government on the EU-IMF programme and being carried forward by the Government that we will now make savings. One economist put the figure at €400 million per year and €4 billion over the ten years. Only in this way will the country save and then be able to get back to paying nurses, and everyone else, their due salaries.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Senator Keane should wait until we see the detail.

Senator Cáit Keane

We cannot pay what we do not have. It is only because it is not being collected in taxes that we cannot put it out.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

The Government is paying unguaranteed bondholders.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

It will cost us more.

Senator Cáit Keane

This is true, as well as good news. It is good news that the Government has negotiated this in the European Union, but we should be honest also.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Senator Cáit Keane

I have a question for the Leader.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

Get to it then.

Senator Cáit Keane

Could we have a debate on what people will listen to? When we are talking about funding the country, we should do so with reasoned debate and honesty. We should be aware as public representatives that there is an onus on us to contribute to constructive and positive debate and talk about good news, when it is available, rather than always discussing whether we should close this House because we are going out of business, as someone beside me said, on account of all the bad news.

Senator Jim Walsh

Up the PDs.

An Cathaoirleach

Does Senator Keane have a question for the Leader?

Senator Cáit Keane

I am asking for a debate on reality in politics and particularly on its financial element.

Senator Jimmy Harte

With other Members I extend my sympathy at this sad time to the McEntee family and to the family of Senator Clune following the death of her mum.

I would like a debate on the issue of medical card reviews that are taking place around the country and particularly in an area of Donegal. I have been contacted by several doctors who maintain that the medical card reviews are mitigating against people over 70 years who may not have the resources or ability or someone to help them to fill in the complicated forms. The reason this is happening, in their opinion - I agree with them - is that community welfare officers have been taken out of the loop. Their view is that people entitled to medical cards will lose them, not because they are over the income limit but because they have not sent back the forms. Another reason is that many of them have cards that state they are eligible until the end of 2015, or in some cases up to 2035, but they are now being told that if the forms are not returned by the end of January they will be cut off in February. I have spoken to two general practitioners in different practices and some other people who have come directly to my office. It is an urgent issue in certain areas of County Donegal and in other rural parts of the country. County Donegal has already been designated a high poverty area. In certain areas there has been much emigration which has left behind many people over 70 years and under 15 years of age. It is the over-70s in need of medical attention who will forgo the medical card. One GP said that he knew of a particular heart patient who stopped coming in because he was so confused by the issue. I call on the Minister look at this issue. I call for a debate on the issue to provide clarity for Members from around the country who may experience this in the coming month or two.

Senator Paul Coghlan

I also wish to be associated with the tributes to our dear departed Deputy Shane McEntee and the expressions of sympathy to the McEntee family. We all knew Shane so well. My sympathy also to our colleague, Senator Deirdre Clune, and Peter Barry on the death of her mother and his wife, Margaret.

I am pleased that on the first day back Senator Darragh O'Brien, as is his wont, led well. We are all singing off the one hymn sheet with regard to sentencing. I join in his call for a debate. Naturally, when dealing with this we are mindful of the separation of powers and the respect we all show for the Judiciary and particularly for Mr. Justice Carney, the most senior of the criminal Judiciary, because of what is being discussed and because of the number of cases of that awful kind that he must hear.

I know there are things people will not understand about guilty pleas, bail and so forth and as the judge said, the case being dealt with was at the higher end of the scale, but as there could be an appeal, we must be careful in what we say. Senator David Norris spoke very well on the matter. I did not hear the journalist who spoke on radio this morning, but, having listened to the Senator, it appears she made some very interesting points. We must, therefore, hold our breath and show respect for the Judiciary, but I ask the Leader to arrange a debate with the Minister for Justice and Equality on the issue of sentencing policy.

Senator John Gilroy

In the context of Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú's reference to good news, there were several pieces of good news on the economic front recently that have not been referred to, except by Senator Cáit Keane, in the House today. The first concerns the agreement in principle, reached last night, that the repayment schedule of our debt to the EFSF and the ECB will be extended. This is very good news and has the potential to save €400 million a year, as Senator Cáit Keane said. Also last week it was announced that the Government was successful in offloading €1 billion worth of so-called "cocos" or contingent convertibles. There was some criticism of the Government's position at the time, namely, that it was attracting a rate of 10% and might be turning away €60 million per annum. In response to the critics I say the Government did not wish to take the position of speculator because the 10% coupon reflects the high level of risk involved. That the Government - the Minister for Finance in particular - has recouped €1 billion, plus €10 million in profit at par value, for the taxpayer is good news and to be welcomed.

Senator Terry Brennan

Chuala mé deascéal sa seomra seo inniu. Chuala me go raibh an Seanadóir Ó Murchú i mo chontae féin, i nDroichead Átha, an tseachtain seo caite. Ba mhaith liomsa go ndéanfadh an Seanadóir a dhícheall a thionchar a úsáid chun Fleadh Cheoil na h Éireann a thabhairt go Droichead Átha an bhliain seo chughainn.

I support my colleagues in their call for a debate with the Minister for Justice and Equality on the question of sentencing policy. I would also like to see the issue of free legal aid being debated. Last week I read about a person who had been granted free legal aid 57 times in total. Is there no limit in this regard? I ask for an urgent debate on these matters. I wish to use what has happened in the courts this week to encourage young women and girls who are suffering the same fate as the woman in question and have been the victim of the same dastardly acts by members of their own families in their own homes to stand up and be counted, irrespective of what happened yesterday. On the question of sentencing, the fact that 12 years was reduced to three-----

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing individual cases. I have ruled on this issue on numerous occasions.

Senator Terry Brennan

Had the figure been reduced to ten, I might have understood it. We need a debate on the issue as soon as possible.

Senator Michael Mullins

I join my colleagues in extending sympathy to Senator Deirdre Clune on the death of her mother, Margaret Barry, and the family of the late Deputy Shane McEntee. We all remember with great fondness the very fine, robust contributions he made in this House on many occasions. We will all miss him and his wisdom and advice. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam uasal.

I ofen find myself agreeing with Senator Labhras Ó Murchú who made a lot of sense when he spoke earlier. We should be talking up the many positives in the country.

I ask the Leader to arrange a session to allow us to present positive suggestions and initiatives which would help the Government to build on the progress it is making. We had a similar discussion on the issue of jobs, but I do not propose to confine this session to jobs. It could range across the public sector and the economy. I believe Members would relish the opportunity to feed into that sort of think tank.

I call on the Government to extend an official invitation to President Obama on the 50th anniversary of the visit of President Kennedy in 1963. It would be a huge boost to The Gathering and he could retrace the steps of President Kennedy by including a visit to Galway in his itinerary.

Senator Colm Burke

I wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to the McEntee family, the Barry family and our colleague, Senator Clune.

Senator Higgins raised the issue of HMV gift vouchers. As a practising solicitor, when I receive money from a client, I must keep it in a separate account. I cannot dispose of it until the day arrives when I can use it in a proper manner for the benefit of the client. If I was an auctioneer, I would be required to have a bond to protect deposits. We urgently need to change the legislation in order that companies which issue gift vouchers use a particular account that cannot be touched until an individual redeems the voucher. The legislation required would be simple. The money does not belong to the shop until the customer has used the voucher. The sooner we put in place legislation the better for everyone, otherwise we should abolish the gift voucher system because it is not working.

Senator Maurice Cummins

Senator Darragh O'Brien and other Senators spoke about consistency in sentencing. I cannot comment on individual cases, despite having strong opinions on the subject, because of the separation of powers, but I note there is grave disquiet among the public regarding sentencing and the consistency of sentences over a long period of time. I will try to arrange a debate on the subject with the Minister for Justice and Equality at the earliest opportunity.

Senators Darragh O'Brien, Marc MacSharry, Trevor Ó Clochartaigh and David Cullinane referred to the new initiative in regard to nurses. It is envisaged that up to 1,000 graduate nurses will be recruited on a two year contract on 80% of the starting salary of staff nurses. They will also qualify for premium payments and allowances on a pro rata basis, bringing the expected average pay to approximately €25,000 per annum, excluding overtime. The initiative offers an opportunity for graduate nurses to obtain valuable experience and additional expertise at a time when opportunities are limited in the public service, the public health service in particular. As part of the graduate programme, nurses will participate in an agreed rotational aspect, as will as accessing additional qualifications. I am aware that there are many graduates in the private sector who earned master's degrees over four or five years and are earning similar salaries under graduate programmes. There are many cases of people in the private sector earning these wages.

Those who have criticised the initiatives being taken by the Minister will be the first to come to this House and complain, several months from now, if his budget runs over. One can have it both ways in opposition. The Senators in question are certainly looking for it both ways in this instance.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

The Government is sacking them entirely.

Senator Maurice Cummins

Senator Hayden and others spoke about the speech made by President Obama. She called on the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, to come to the House for a debate on inequality in society and on equality issues. That is another matter we will have to raise with the Minister when we try to get him to come to the House.

I advise Senator Rónán Mullen that we are awaiting the Government's proposals for legislation on the X case judgment. Very successful hearings on the matter were held in this Chamber a number of weeks ago. The Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children is to be complimented on the manner in which he chaired those hearings which were of benefit to us all. Everybody had his or her say in a meaningful and respectful way. The Members who were here to listen to the debate got a good insight into the positions being taken by both sides. That is how such debates should be carried out.

Senator Martin Conway called for the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, to come to the House for a debate on restorative justice. I understand the pilot restorative justice schemes in Nenagh and other areas have proved to be successful. This is the third matter to which I have responded so far in which the Minister for Justice and Equality, is responsible. He will be a busy man in this House alone.

Senator Marc MacSharry also raised the question of nurses, which I have dealt with.

Senator Mary Moran and several other Senators extended their deep condolences to the family of the former Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee. I should have alluded to his death. I take the opportunity to join my colleagues in expressing my sympathy. Shane McEntee was a decent, honourable and caring public representative. After his election to the other House, he served the people of his constituency very well and he did likewise in the areas for which he was responsible as Minister of State. I join Members in expressing our sincere sympathy to his family. Senator Sean D. Barrett referred specifically to his performances in this House. Not so long ago he came to the Seanad to speak about ash dieback disease, on which he certainly was a great fountain of knowledge. He carried out his duties in that respect in an excellent manner.

Senator Sean D. Barrett also commended the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State for their work in Northern Ireland. We all agree with what he said about the need for a political solution to the flag issue.

Senators Catherine Noone, Lorraine Higgins and Colm Burke spoke about HMV vouchers and asked whether legislation was required to protect consumers. It is possible that legislation is required to deal with the issue. Senator Colm Burke made a point about separate accounts in that context. A number of aspects of this country's consumer protection code need to be debated. Perhaps the Minister who is responsible for this matter might be brought before the House. As I received a few vouchers for Christmas, I am in the same position as a number of others in this regard.

Senator David Cullinane called for a debate on equality for women, a matter raised by Senator Aideen Hayden previously.

Again, we will try to bring the Minister to the House.

Senator Marie Moloney raised the issue of cyberbullying and urged parents to be cautious in that regard. We have discussed this issue in the House previously and I am sure it is a subject to which we will come back in early course.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill spoke about the discovery of equine DNA in burgers. It is only fair to state our food safety and traceability system is recognised as one of the best in the world. This is reflected in the fact that the issue was discovered using advanced testing methods which are not used in other jurisdictions at this point in time. It is a very serious issue nonetheless.

The Senator also referred to septic tanks. We will have the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government in the House this afternoon and the Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, will be here tomorrow to discuss water services. Therefore, the Senator may have an opportunity to raise the matter with either of them.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames spoke about the conviction rate for rape and expressed the view that it was very low. It is alarmingly low and certainly a matter that should be researched and investigated. I agree with the Senator that we should debate it in the House.

Senator David Norris also spoke about that case. While I cannot comment on the individual case, I agree with his sentiments that we should not be driven by tabloid headlines on any issue.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan outlined the plight of junior doctors and urged that we improve their conditions. Certainly, the working time directives in place will improve their conditions. I know the Minister is working on the issue.

Senator Jim Walsh called for respectful and truthful debate at all times. I am sure we all agree with the sentiment that this is what we should have in the House. Debate should be respectful to everybody, be it the Chair or anybody else, and we should always be respectful and truthful.

Senator John Kelly raised the issue of abuse of the free legal aid system, particularly with regard to the use of the system by habitual offenders. Senator Terry Brennan also referred to this point. It is a matter we can raise with the Minister for Justice and Equality.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh has reminded us that this year is Bliain na Gaeilge. I am sure everybody will use the bit of Irish he or she has. We are blessed to have so many excellent speakers of the language in the House. We had a debate on one Bill which was totally in the Irish language, which possibly had not happened in either House of the Oireachtas for a long time. Members of the House are to be commended for this.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh also raised the question of the invitations to the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. As I have outlined on several occasions, there are protocols that must be gone through. We have initiated these protocols, but we have not had a positive response from the people involved. Invitations have gone out, but I understand both of them must come together. I would like to have both of them here together. It is not my fault that they are not here. It would be good to have them. With regard to a plebiscite, we will have to wait. I note Senator Jim D'Arcy's point on the research undertaken by Queen's University on the matter, but I am sure Senator trevor Ó Clochartaigh would have a different view on it.

Senators Jim D'Arcy and Labhrás Ó Murchú referred to Showcase 2013, the excellent exhibition organised by the Crafts Council of Ireland that is under way, which highlights that we have so much positivity to offer in this country.

Senator Jim D'Arcy asked about the extension of the JobBridge programme. We will certainly ask the Minister to comment on it. Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú also outlined the positive aspects not only of Showcase 2013 in the RDS but also The Gathering and many other areas. The Senator should bring his side of the House together and outline to it that it should be expressing the good news available more often.

Senator Cáit Keane spoke about the extension of the maturities on Irish bonds and EFSF loans. Senator John Gilroy also raised this issue. The finance Ministers agreed to examine the extension of the maturities for Portugal and Ireland. Finance Ministers representing the 27 EU member states agreed at ECOFIN this morning that the duration of the loans drawn down under the European financial stabilisation mechanism would also be examined. This decision is only possible because we are delivering on our commitments and building support behind the scenes with our EU partners, which is very important. An extension of the maturities has the potential to further enhance Ireland's debt sustainability and improve our prospects of making a full return to the markets at competitive interest rates. All of these issues will, I hope, be put to bed by the end of March. We can then have a debate on the subject.

Senator Jimmy Harte spoke about medical cards. He argued that the role of community welfare officers in this matter should be highlighted and that they had disappeared from the scene, although at one time many of them helped people to fill in medical card application forms. Citizens information offices around the country can help and I am sure many Members of the Oireachtas and local representatives help applicants with this issue on a daily basis. We will try to get the Minister to come to the House to outline the changes in the review of medical cards.

Senator Terry Brennan must take up the issue of the venue for the Fleadh Cheoil with Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú outside the House. The Senator also raised the issues of sentencing and free legal aid, matters which were also raised by Senator John Kelly.

Senator Michael Mullins spoke about positive suggestions and initiatives with regard to job creation. He pointed out that we had a debate on these issues in the House. Perhaps we might extend an invitation to the relevant Ministers to come to the House to take up other positive suggestions in that regard.

That concludes most of the items raised on the Order of Business.

An Cathaoirleach

I also extend my condolences to Kathleen McEntee and her family on the sudden death of the former Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee, who was a great attender of this House in the short period during which he was a Minister of State. I also extend my sympathy to Peter Barry and our colleague, Senator Deirdre Clune, on the death of Mrs. Barry. Peter Barry addressed this House on numerous occasions as a senior Government Minister.

Order of Business agreed to.