Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Dec 2022

Vol. 290 No. 10

Social Welfare Bill 2022: Second Stage

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Heather Humphreys)

I am very pleased to bring this year's Social Welfare Bill to Seanad Éireann. The purpose of the Bill is to give legislative effect to the comprehensive set of social protection measures announced on budget day. The Government has been listening to people throughout the country and is acutely aware of the financial pressures that many in our communities are facing.

I am particularly glad that this year's Christmas bonus will be extended to people on long-term illness benefit for the first time. The vast majority of people are on illness benefit for a short period and then return to work. However, there is a small cohort of people with serious medical conditions who remain on the payment for longer periods. These are people who have worked all their lives, paid their PRSI and then have to take time out of the workforce due to serious illness. People in receipt of illness benefit for 12 months or longer will now receive the Christmas bonus.

Other measures announced by Government on budget day that do not require legislative provision include extending access to the JobsPlus scheme to marginalised groups in order to support them into the workforce. I will take a moment to talk about this matter. JobsPlus is an employer incentive that rewards employers who offer employment opportunities to those distant from the labour market.

In this year's budget, provision has been made for the higher JobsPlus grant, €10,000 over two years, to be extended to an employer who recruits a jobseeker who is a Traveller or has spent time in prison or has a history of addiction. It is important to ensure we provide as much help as possible to those furthest from the labour market.

I am enhancing the reasonable accommodation fund to assist people with disabilities into to work. I am also increasing the weekly earnings disregard for disability allowance and blind pension from €140 to €165 per week. Members of the House may be aware I announced my intention on budget day to introduce a new over-70s fuel scheme. This is not a once-off measure. It is a permanent change to provide much-needed assistance to older people. Under the new scheme, a single person over 70 can receive income of €500 per week and a couple can receive income of €1,000 per week and still qualify for fuel allowance. In addition, I am removing the requirement for people over 70 to be on a qualifying payment. This measure will bring much-needed support to an additional 80,000 households who are set to qualify for the scheme. My priority is to now implement this scheme which, I am glad to say, is open for applications from this week.

I now turn to the provisions of the Social Welfare Bill itself. Section 1 provides for definitions of the relevant Acts. Section 2 provides a measure to preserve the craft of making and fixing musical instruments of cultural significance to the Irish nation. The low number of uilleann pipe and harp makers in the State suggests Government intervention is warranted to support these craftspeople. The section provides that the first €20,000 of "relevant profits" for those who are wholly or mainly engaged in the production, repair, or maintenance of harps and uilleann pipes will be exempt from income tax, but they will continue to make PRSI contributions in order that their pension and social insurance-based benefits can continue to build up. There is a matching provision in the Finance Bill, which is going through the Oireachtas, to provide an exemption from income tax.

Section 3 extends eligibility for participation on community employment, CE, schemes to adult dependants, that is, spouses, civil partners or cohabitants, of jobseeker's allowance recipients. This is a pilot project and if it works well, I will extend it to other groups in the future. At a time of full employment, I know some CE schemes have struggled to find participants and I am hopeful this initiative will encourage greater participation in CE schemes, which provide such a valuable service in our local communities.

Section 4 is designed to take account of the forthcoming increase in the minimum wage. The weekly earnings of an employee determine the PRSI rate of employer contributions paid on behalf of that employee. Currently, employer PRSI is charged at a rate of 8.8% on weekly earnings between €38 and €410. Weekly earnings in excess of €410 attract employer PRSI at a higher rate of 11.05%. This section increases the earnings threshold from €410 to €441, which is designed to take account of the forthcoming increase in the minimum wage from €10.50 to €11.30 per hour. Employers with employees benefiting from the increase in the national minimum wage will continue to attract the lower rate of employer PRSI. It is intended that the section will come into operation on the same day as the national minimum wage increase, that is, new year's day of 2023. This measure should continue to stimulate employment especially in the services sector.

Section 5 provides for a €12 increase in the weekly rate of maternity benefit from €250 to €262 from 2 January 2023. Sections 6 to 8, inclusive, provide for the equivalent increases in relation to adoptive benefit, paternity benefit and parent's benefit, respectively. Section 9 gives effect to the increases in the graduated rates of jobseeker's benefit and jobseeker's benefit for the self-employed.

Section 10 provides for a €40 increase in the weekly income threshold of the working family payment for all family sizes. This payment, formerly known as family income supplement, gives extra financial support to families with children on low incomes. This is a particularly important scheme that is all about keeping people in employment. Research conducted by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, during the summer said increasing the thresholds for working family payment is one of the most significant social welfare measures the Government can introduce to decrease the amount of people at risk of poverty. Recipients of the working family payment also received a cost-of-living lump sum of €500 in November, which benefited approximately 44,000 families, over half of whom are lone parents.

Section 11 provides for early and late application periods for partial capacity benefit. Partial capacity benefit is a very worthwhile scheme. It allows a person who has been in receipt of illness benefit for a minimum of six months or invalidity pension to return to employment or self-employment and continue to receive a payment from my Department if the person's capacity to work continues to be reduced by their medical condition. The purpose of the section is to provide for an application window for claims, such as other PRSI-based benefit schemes. To encourage people with an illness or disability back into employment, there is a generous application period ranging from up to 13 weeks prior to commencement of employment to three weeks after the start date of employment. I would also like to point out that, similar to other social protection schemes, a deciding officer may relax these already generous time limits in exceptional circumstances.

Section 12 provides for an ex gratia scheme for community employment scheme supervisors and assistant supervisors. Senators may be aware that last December, community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors voted to accept the terms of a settlement negotiated between unions and the Department of Social Protection on the ex gratia scheme.

Section 13 provides for increases in the rates of social insurance payments. I am pleased to say there will be a €12 per week increase in the maximum personal rate of all social insurance-based benefits. Section 14 provides for an increase in the disregard for income received from agri-environmental schemes. This applies to farm assist, jobseeker's allowance and the non-contributory State pension. These schemes, including the agri-climate rural environment scheme, ACRES, will now attract a disregard of €5,000 from 1 January 2023. This provision supports Ireland's climate action agenda by removing a potential barrier for low-income farmers to participate in these agri-environmental schemes.

Section 15 and Schedule 2 provide for €12 per week across-the-board increases in social assistance or, in other words, means-tested payments. It also provides for increases to qualified adults and qualified children where relevant. Section 16 provides for an increase in the monthly payment rate of domiciliary care allowance from €309.50 to €330. Domiciliary care allowance is a payment in recognition of the additional burden involved in caring for children with a severe disability and it is not a means-tested payment. I am the first Minister to increase this payment since 2009. It is only right that we recognise the significant and valuable role family carers perform in our society. In addition to the rate increase, recipients of the domiciliary care allowance have also received the lump sum payment of €500, along with other qualifying carers. This payment, which was made in November, is in addition to the annual carer's support grant of €1,850 that was paid earlier this year. I take this opportunity to inform the House that regulations are being drafted that will allow a parent or guardian to receive domiciliary care allowance if the child remains in the care of the hospital after birth and if the other conditions of the scheme are met. This measure, which I announced on budget day, is very important for families who find themselves in these very difficult circumstances.

Section 17 exempts the ex gratia payment for community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors from income tax. Finally, section 18 contains the Short Title of the Act.

This Bill is a fair and balanced one. It responds to the needs of members of our community whose income needs are greatest. I very much look forward to hearing contributions from Senators on the Bill and with that, a Chathaoirligh, I commend the Bill to the House.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Mark Wall)

Senator Burke wishes to share time with Senator Currie. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Paddy Burke

I thank the House for agreeing to my sharing of time with Senator Currie.

I welcome the Minister to the House and I would like to start where finished. She stated:

This Bill is a fair and balanced one. It responds to the needs of members of our community whose income needs are greatest.

That is quite correct. Over the past 12 months, she has been listening to all the proposals that were made in these Houses and at parliamentary party meetings. The Government and the Minister have dealt in a very fair way with the needy of this country. Not only have they responded with increases in welfare allowances, such as increases to the old age pension of €12, and other pensions, but they also introduced one-off payments, which were an absolutely marvellous idea, providing much-needed revenue to cover energy and other costs for families who are under severe pressure. People have welcomed what has happened and they know the Government has been very fair to them. I have not heard people complaining, to be honest, at that level. Quite a lot of households are in need but they know the Government and the Minister have provided a great response to the needs of families following the pressures that have been put upon them by the war in Ukraine and the pandemic before that.

This Government has been under great pressure over the last number of years and it has responded very well to the issues. We can see that from the beginning of the Minister's speech where she outlined the various payments, including the autumn double paymen; the €500 lump sum paid to all people receiving a long-term disability payment; the €200 lump sum payment to people receiving the living alone allowance; the €400 lump sum payment to all households in receipt of fuel allowance; the €500 lump sum for the working family payment; and the double child benefit payment. The latter are two vital measures to support hard-working families, as the Minister said. There is also the €500 extra payment for the carer's support grant, paid to more than 114,500 carers. The Government has also responded through the increase in the old age pension of €12 a week. Many pensioners are looking forward to that. It has also dealt with the CE schemes, which is very welcome. As the Minister said, it is very difficult to get workers in some schemes. The measures the Government has implemented or is going to implement through this legislation will help to find workers in the various communities where the schemes are in operation. All those things are very welcome. We will have a greater opportunity to go into greater detail on the many issues raised here on Committee Stage.

The Department of Social Protection now has the biggest budget in the country. It has surpassed the health budget, or near enough. It is a huge payment and a huge responsibility for the Minister. The Social Welfare Bill is as important now as the Finance Bill, although the Finance Bill gives effect to many of those payments as well. This Social Welfare Bill is a very important Bill and it provides for the most needy in the country. I welcome this Bill and welcome the Minister to the House. I look forward to the opportunity to go into more depth on Committee Stage.

Some people are still not too happy with the K class of PRSI. Is it going to continue? There are people who pay the K class but they do not seem to get any great benefit from paying that contribution. I think they would prefer if the K class was changed, even if it cost more money, if they were going to get benefits. I ask that the Minister have a look at that when we get to Committee Stage. Senator Craughwell has raised this issue on numerous occasions. I am looking forward to the passage of this Bill. It is timely before Christmas. I thank the Minister again for the many lump sum payments to the many needy families throughout this country over the last number of weeks.

Senator Emer Currie

I concur with my colleague on the overall description of the success of the Bill. I want to raise two aspects of it. I cannot stay as I have to head out to Hartstown for a meeting; that is why Senator Burke has kindly given me some of his time.

The first thing I want to raise is the hot school meals. This is one of the best initiatives this Government has introduced because it is practical, both in its effect on people's pockets and from a learning and health perspective. The Minister has overseen it from a pilot of 30 schools to 300 schools and now even more in 2023. I would like to flag with the Minister that there is an issue with special schools. I work with a special school in Dublin 15. It is in a DEIS area but does not have access to hot school meals. We should be including all schools in disadvantaged areas in the programme. There are 140 special schools in the country. We should offer the hot school meals to them as well, for all the reasons I have said. It is less hassle for parents and less expense. It is healthier and children learn better. Let us remember that these parents have enough on their plates - excuse the pun.

Regarding the domiciliary care allowance, it is fantastic that the Minister has increased it for the first time since 2009, that people are getting a lump sum and that she has addressed the anomaly around the hospitals. Parents tell me the form they have to fill out is 20 pages long. It is an arduous and sometimes emotional experience because it can be the first time parents of children with challenging care needs sit down and actually accept the care their children require. I would like the Minister to consider that. Is there a way around that 20-page document? It feels very intrusive for families. Could we say that for certain diagnoses, people do not have to fill out the 20 pages? Is there a way to look at making it more user-friendly and less stressful on the family? In 2021, 60% of applications were awarded on the first attempt. Then on the second attempt, when people appealed it, another 60% got it. If 60% are getting it on appeal, maybe the decision-makers are being too hard on the first attempt. I would like the Minister's views on whether there is a way to make the process more user-friendly and less stressful for families who are already under enough stress.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

When speaking about social welfare, it would be wrong to start without paying due respect to the staff in the Department. We have gone through two years of Covid and suddenly we are confronted with a Ukrainian crisis. The staff have performed exceptionally well. As for the Minister herself, she took on two Ministries and kept the ship floating in both the Departments of Justice and Social Protection. I acknowledge her commitment to the State and the work she has done through this pretty horrible time.

We talk about an increase of €12 in the old age pension but, in actual fact, if people are not on a full old age pension, they do not get the full €12. It is a matter of huge annoyance to people who write to me about this. We might talk about a pro rata amount with respect to that.

The Minister has been in politics a long time, as have many of the people in this room. It has become the most precarious profession in the country. In 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, a number of our former colleagues lost their seats in this House. They were young, dynamic, hard-working people who gave everything of themselves while they were here but the nature of politics is that sometimes you pay a price you do not deserve to pay. Due to changes in social welfare rules with respect to lifetime earnings and all these types of things, the class K PRSI is detrimental to these people. A number of young Deputies and Senators left these Houses in the middle of a pandemic with no entitlement to social welfare or any supports whatsoever. Of course, they lost their salaries when they lost their seats. I know there is not a huge amount of sympathy out there for Members of the Oireachtas. People think we have a great job and wonderful conditions and in fairness, we are well looked after while we are here. However, we often see young men and women losing their seats, having given four or five years of their lives. We know in our heart of hearts that it is not just about the loss of the seat or the loss of the welfare entitlements there and then, but the long-term impact that has on their lives and their future pension entitlements.

We have already been through this with county councillors. I was forced at that time to take that matter to the courts. The advice then was that class K is unconstitutional. Who in their right mind would take out an insurance policy in the certain knowledge that they could never draw down anything from that policy? That is what class K is. Class K is a tax on public service, in the case of Members of the Oireachtas only.

I appreciate that for members of the Judiciary and others, unearned income is subject to class K and there is a different way to deal with that. Unearned income should be taxed and just because you are a member of the Judiciary does not necessarily mean you are going out with a gold-plated pension either. You might be there for a short time, as some have been in the past.

We have to grasp this nettle. I will put down an amendment; I do not mind it going in my name because at the end of the day, we must be able to look after ourselves and our colleagues, particularly those who lose their seats. Some of those will never return to politics, as the Minister and I know. They might have been hurt by the system and they will be gone. We have to grasp this class K nettle and put it through as an amendment to the Bill. I appreciate that the Minister is up against the wire in needing to get this Bill over the line. I will be as helpful as I can in every way on the Bill for the Minister. A number of the Minister's colleagues will have lost their seats in the last election and it is simply not good enough, having given four or five years of their lives, not to be able to be looked after by the State. It is a small ask for Members of the Houses. There may be a possibility to adjust the Social Welfare Bill 2022 in such a way that if you are here for longer than ten or 15 years, you cease to be entitled to benefits from social welfare and there may be a more equitable way of doing it. However, class K was a crude instrument brought in at a time when this country was on its knees. We have to go back and revisit that.

On the list of payments the Minister has provided, nobody who is on social welfare expects to be extremely comfortable. After all, it is the basic income to keep a family in body and soul. The Government has stepped up to the plate in providing additional income, grants and aid for people for heating etc. and it is to be commended on that. It shows the Government has a feeling for what is going on in society and we are in a precarious situation; we do not know where the world is going over the next 12 months. This is a good Bill on the Minister's part. The increases are as reasonable as they can be, given the circumstances we live in, and overall I will only address the issue of class K contributions on Committee Stage. I thank the Minister for her time and assistance.

Senator Catherine Ardagh

I welcome the Minister to the House. Fianna Fáil welcomes and supports this Bill, which is designed to give legislative effect to a range of social welfare measures that were announced in September. The cost-of-living budget helps families to cope with the ultimate impact of huge rising prices and inflation across Europe. There is no trickle-down side to this budget; it is direct and substantial aid, with those most in need seeing the biggest benefit. The single biggest measure, costing nearly €900 million, is a permanent increase in the social welfare payments of €12, the largest ever increase in these payments and part of the largest ever social welfare protection package. Fianna Fáil rejects the Sinn Féin idea of giving less to pensioners. They deserve our support and must continue to have the support, as always, of Fianna Fáil, but we oppose the idea that they should be treated unequally. This increase will apply to all people who are in receipt of the principal social welfare payments. This budget will see more people qualifying for the working family payment and the qualified child allowance and the fuel allowance are being increased. So too are payments to carers and to people on community employment schemes. This is on top of other benefits and once-off inflationary measures.

Budget 2023 was one of the largest social welfare interventions in the history of the State. It supported pensioners, carers, people with disabilities and those on low incomes. There was a suite of immediate financial supports that many families saw across the sphere. Up to 81,000 new households will benefit from a major expansion of the fuel allowance scheme. There was: a double payment of the child benefit payment in November; a €500 cost-of-living payment for people receiving the carer support grant; and a €500 cost-of-living disability support grant to be paid to all people receiving a disability payment. Households in receipt of the working family payment received a €500 lump sum and across the board, there were increases in weekly payments of €12 from January 2023. The social protection budget, the largest in the history of the State, will assist families with the cost of living through a mix of lump sum supports and increases to weekly payments.

This is the most generous budget we have seen in a long time. I am proud to live in a country where we have a generous social welfare safety net for people. You can look across the water or if you look at people living in the United States, they face bankruptcy day in, day out, especially when they encounter the health system there. I am proud of our social welfare system, therefore. We can always do more and there are so many areas where we can do so. For instance, there is a new regime for the jobseeker's payment in that there will be a transitioned payment. We need to look at the basic social welfare rate generally and see if it can be increased to an amount closer to a living wage, like we saw during Covid, as a back-to-work type scheme. It is hard for people to live off the basic minimum wage when they are in a scenario where they are legitimately looking for a job. There were also issues with the foster carers and that might have been resolved but perhaps the Minister has some information on it. They were not included in the budget to the extent that they perhaps should have been. I concur with my colleagues on filling in the domiciliary care form. It is a minefield and it is difficult for people, when they have a clear-cut diagnosis, that they have to go through so many loopholes, have a psychology report and have a GP report. Maybe there could be a way to streamline it.

I also concur with my colleague, Senator Craughwell, on class K contributions. It was a big issue in the last Seanad and when the Tánaiste was Minister for Social Protection, he sat in this Chamber and listened to our deliberations on class K contributions. It has affected a lot of our former colleagues. As Senator Craughwell pointed out, it is a big issue and a clear one, in that people are paying for an insurance product they will never get the benefit of. As politicians, especially during that time, we kept ourselves down and put ourselves last. No one has any sympathy for us and I do not expect anyone to have sympathy for us but our former colleagues - and we will all be former Senators and Deputies one day - deserve equality. They do not deserve any more or better but they deserve at least the basic minimum. I thank the Minister for coming and I support the Bill.

Senator Ollie Crowe

I thank Senator Ardagh for sharing the time and I welcome the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to the Chamber. I want to follow on from my colleague, Senator Ardagh, and discuss section 12 of the Bill, which provides for an ex gratia scheme for community employment scheme supervisors and assistant supervisors, as all Members of this House will be familiar with. I appreciate that this represents considerable progress for thousands of people, which is welcome and positive, and I am thankful for that. It has been a long-standing and complex issue across the country that has been stuck in limbo since a Labour Court recommendation in 2008. I have had extensive engagement with CE supervisors in Galway and I acknowledge that in recent years, this Government has progressed the issue far more than had previously been the case. This will have a positive impact on people's lives. However, I cannot let this opportunity pass without highlighting that a small minority of 40 to 50 people, including former supervisors and assistant supervisors, are being left out of this scheme. This is being done on the basis that they received a redundancy payment. The case has been raised with me where the schemes were closed and people were made redundant through no fault of their own. It does not seem fair or just that such people, having been made redundant, would be left out of the scheme now, which implements a 2008 Labour Court recommendation relating to the provision of the pension scheme. I ask the Minister and the Government to review and reconsider this. This scheme serves to acknowledge the hard work of CE supervisors and assistant supervisors. Those who were made redundant worked as hard and were as dedicated as those who were fortunate enough to find themselves in that situation.

At this stage, I appeal to the Government and the Department to review this with urgency and possibly make the necessary amendments.

Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile

Ba mhaith liom tús a chur le mo ráiteas le fáiltiú roimh an Aire. I welcome the Minister. Like Senator Currie, I wish to indicate that I will not be here for her response as I have another event to attend but I will read back the transcript of what she says.

I welcome the Bill in the first instance. There are a number of positive elements in this legislation. Of course, I welcome increases to payments for some of the most hard-pressed families. There are a few issues I would like to raise on Second Stage with the Minister on behalf of Sinn Féin. No doubt the Minister will be familiar with them, given her engagements with our spokesperson, Deputy Kerrane. As welcome as the core payment increases are, it is important to note they are not enough to lift people out of poverty. There are close to 40 different social welfare payments. The social protection system in this State has a lot of variety. In all likelihood, everyone in the State will receive some form of social welfare payment at some point in their lives such as child, illness or maternity benefit, disability allowance, jobseeker's allowance and so on. Wide and varied as the system may be, it is only as good as the adequacy of the payment rates.

The Vincentian Partnership for Social Justice has been calling for a working-age payment based on the minimum essential standard of living and we support this call. The consumer price index rose by 9.2% between October 2021 and October 2022. Even after these increases, people will still be chasing their tails as the cost-of-living crisis continues month after month. Social welfare rates are still not being set against anything evidence-based. We know and accept that the minimum essential standard of living cannot be achieved overnight. It would be a significant expense on the Exchequer, but as access to healthcare and childcare improve, the minimum essential standard of living will reduce. This will mean payments do not keep having to increase. At the end of the day, what should the social welfare system be for but to protect people from poverty?

Energy poverty is growing and hugely concerning for everyone. Unfortunately, the Government has been burying its head in the sand on energy poverty. In early 2021, we published the results of a survey that Deputy Kerrane conducted about people's experiences of energy poverty. She did this, in part, to highlight how poor the Government's own data collection is on energy poverty. Even before the inflation induced by the war in Ukraine kicked in, there were staggering levels of suffering. Our party is now conducting another survey. Instead of investigating the matter, the Government would rather see no evil and hear no evil. It is important to remember that when the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, published its report on energy poverty numbers at the start of the summer, it was not the Government that commissioned that research, but it was private philanthropists. Sinn Féin produced legislation that would ensure the Government would monitor and report levels of energy poverty. I encourage the Minister to consider the provisions on that in this Bill.

We need an energy poverty strategy. The previous strategy was allowed to lapse in 2019 and we have seen nothing since. Changes were made to the fuel allowance for older people, which is important. It will make a significant difference for many older households and it is most welcome. The Minister could have linked the working family payment to the fuel allowance, given that they are provided to low-income households. We also called for a discretionary fund to help those who are struggling but are not eligible. This is a missed opportunity by Government in that people are struggling with the cost of heating their homes but find no supports available to them.

We need to look at other issues, including reports on rates based on the minimum essential standard of living; on extending the provision of the disability allowance to agents in the case of the bereavement of a child; and on including apprenticeships as education for social welfare payments. These are modest, reasonable and doable requests. I have no doubt my colleagues in the Seanad will engage with the Minister and her officials in a positive way as this Bill progresses through the House.

Senator Mark Wall

I welcome the Minister to the House. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill. The Labour Party has been advocating for an increase in the qualifying limits for the fuel allowance over many years. My office has dealt with applicants who were just a few cent over the limit. I welcome the move by the Minister to increase those limits. The reaction in my office has been positive and the number of applications we are assisting people with is increasing by the day.

There were some queries about the fuel allowance. The first was in relation to people who have moved from jobseeker's benefit to the community employment scheme, CE. I am dealing with a case, and I am aware of other cases, where a person on the CE service support stream still does not qualify for the fuel allowance. Perhaps the Minister could look at that case if I send the details on to the Department. It seems unfair that person has lost out over a number of years and they still do not qualify for the fuel allowance.

I also want to raise another issue regarding the fuel allowance which I have raised with the Minister, as have my colleagues in the Labour Party. It concerns the situation where a person in a house has a child in receipt of social welfare who is still living with them. They are also out of the loop when it comes to the fuel allowance. My colleagues raised this recently with the Minister but the response did not give much hope for those families. In many cases, the family member leaves the home, goes onto a housing list and even receives the housing assistance payment, HAP. Surely, in a housing crisis, we should allow the fuel allowance payment to be paid to families who continue to provide a roof over their children's heads. They are losing out on the warmer home scheme, as well as the fuel allowance. It is a growing worry for many. I ask the Minister to revisit that situation.

The Minister agreed to look at how the community welfare officer, CWO, system is currently operating following an amendment from my colleague, Deputy Sherlock, on Committee Stage in the Dáil. I, too, want to raise the need for an urgent review. Increasingly, I am hearing Ministers say that the CWO service is a back-up to the cost-of-living crisis being experienced by many at this time. In the past, I would have agreed that the service, where one could call into a community welfare officer, was a good one. However, the centralised service, as it currently stands, is not working and is not what I and a growing number of public representatives believe is needed at this time. These centralised hubs are taking four to six weeks and longer to provide a decision on an exceptional needs payment. I am informed that community welfare officers are not seeing the applications until the final stages and this is causing problems.

I thank all of the community welfare officers I have dealt with over the last 16 years or so in public life. They certainly made my job and that of many public representatives a lot easier because they understood the most vulnerable. The situation now is that direct contact seems to be frowned upon and those relationships which benefitted everybody are no longer there. In recent examples from one part of the service, I heard about bereaved families receiving multiple funeral grant forms even when they had already submitted the exact information the new letter demanded. One can imagine the continued heartache receiving those forms caused. Once those people were in direct contact with the community welfare officer, that solved this sensitive situation. Those working relationships are vital. I ask the Minister to look at this situation again.

I welcome, as have colleagues, the increase in the domiciliary care allowance. I also agree with colleagues about filling out the form, which it is difficult and complex. It is something we discussed with the Minister and officials at the Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands.

I wish to raise the issue of the means test and carer's allowance, which I raised with the Minister previously at that committee and in this House. The Minister has acknowledged the 24-7 care so many carer's allowance recipients carry out on behalf of the State on many occasions. I acknowledge the once-off payment of €500 in the recent budget, but we need to look at the means test again. Through engagement in the social protection committee and the Joint Committee on Autism, I have spoken to many families who are getting a reduced weekly rate, yet the cost of their care for their loved ones has increased dramatically. Many are not in a position to work as the care they give is 24-7 and they are struggling. These families need to receive the full carer's allowance payment. I would appreciate if the Minister and the Department look at this in the coming year.

Last month the Minister joined us in this House for Second Stage of the Labour Party Private Members' Bill on surviving co-habitants. I wish to raise this important Bill with the Minister again. Since debating the Bill on Second Stage in the House, many people have contacted me regarding their circumstances and the fact they do not qualify for a widow's or widower's contributory pension. The last contact I had was from a lady in my area yesterday who received a letter from the Department seeking her marriage certificate. Her partner of more than 20 years passed away a number of months ago. They never married but were in a loving relationship for that time. I ask the Minister and the Department to keep this under urgent review. I know the Minister has committed to that over the coming year.

Again, I thank the Minister for joining us tonight.

The Social Welfare Bill is extremely important for so many in this country. I look forward to working with the Minister on progressing it.

Senator Eileen Flynn

I support the Bill but, like others, I want to raise some important points. On the supports that are given to families who are struggling, such as the 20% of people who are at the bottom of society, those on low incomes and people who are most impacted by the cost of living, as a community development worker, I have to say that I was always told to empower people and support them. Did the Minister ever hear that if you catch a fish for a person, that person only eats for one day but that if you teach him how to fish, he eats for the rest of his life? Giving these one-off payments is important. It helps families for a week or possibly for a month. It might get them out of a bad situation they are in. Overall, however one-off payments are not the answer. We need to increase social welfare for people in order to match the cost of living.

I live in rural Ireland. It is so tough for people around me. Everyone feels the pinch of increases in the cost of living. People having to make hard choices. I know of a Traveller family who cannot heat their home. They have a newborn baby. What they are doing is living with their sister because they do not have the money to be able to heat their home. This is despite the one-off benefits that people are getting.

Many people are struggling, especially at this time of year. I have a long speech in front of me. I do not want to be seen to be against the one-off payments because they are important for people. However, they are not the answer. We need to look at what is more sustainable for people going forward and increase social welfare payments.

On what has already been said, I have supported people to get disability allowance at least three times. I raised this matter with the Minister at the Joint Committee on Disability Matters regarding the fact that the documentation in this regard is extremely hard for people to fill in.

On welfare officers, I agree that we need a review. I do not know if it happens in settled accommodation, but welfare officers often come onto halting sites with members of the Garda Síochána. In many cases, they ask a lot of hard questions and people feel like they are being intimidated and questioned by the Department of Social Protection in respect of something that they deserve.

As the Minister will be aware, 80% of the members of the Traveller community are unemployed. A Behaviour & Attitudes survey that was done in 2017 showed that over 50% of people would not employ a member of the Traveller community. There is work being done by the Government whereby the Irish Traveller Movement will be able to support Travellers to take up internships. We are trying to change the narrative to the effect that Travellers do not want to work because they do want to work but, unfortunately, in many cases, the opportunities are not there.

On the fuel allowance, the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, is meeting me and the National Traveller Money Advice and Budgeting Service to discuss Travellers who are struggling in terms of getting fair energy bills. We are looking at Travellers, including Travellers who live in trailers, being treated on an equal basis with people from settled communities.

We might need to have a wider conversation with the Minister on the fuel allowance. If there are two families, one in a house and the other living in the back yard in a caravan or trailer, because the address is the same for both, the people living in the back yard are not entitled to the fuel allowance. Last week, I was speaking to a co-ordinator in Donegal. I met with the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, two weeks ago to discuss making sure that the energy credits are given to Travellers in a fair way. It was agreed that the credits will be given through local authorities but that this will not impact on the Traveller accommodation budget. However, there are many Travellers who live on the side of the road in, for example, Donegal. How do we make sure that those Travellers get the credit for electricity? I accept that they use generators, but it is still electricity. As well as that, there is the fuel allowance.

For people from my community, my concern is how do we look to ensure that people are getting treated fairly in this piece of legislation. I will be coming next week with some amendments, and only to make sure that the Traveller community is not left behind - even a few because a few is too many.

Senator Micheál Carrigy

I welcome the Minister. First, it is important to acknowledge the budget and the targeted measures that were put in place by the Minister across all sectors of society, particularly that comprising those who are most vulnerable. The extra supports that were put in place and the widening of the fuel allowances were provided to those who are most vulnerable in society. I compliment the Minister on the budget. It is an excellent budget that will support those who most need it. That is what is important.

On the fuel allowance, I am getting many queries about the working family payment from people in my area. It is an excellent payment but some people who are on the working family payment are not eligible for the fuel allowance. In some instances, people are getting only the minimum, which is €20 per week, and do not qualify for the fuel allowance. People who are on community employment schemes, Tús, the rural social scheme and disability allowance are all eligible for the fuel allowance, but those on the working family payment are not. I ask that this be examined.

Senator Wall referred to carer's allowance. One way of putting it is that decisions in respect of this allowance tend to vary. Like Senators Wall and Ardagh, I am a member of the Joint Committee on Autism. In my area, there are many families who are in extremely difficult situations. Some of them have more than one child. In many instances, one parent is not able to work full-time because they have to care for the child with autism. I ask that this be reviewed.

There needs to be consultation with the Department of Health with regard to the carer's allowance in general. In many cases. people are staying home to care for elderly relatives who would otherwise be in nursing homes funded by the Department of Health. That matter also needs to be reviewed. The Department of Health needs to make a contribution. We should look at instances where families are in extremely difficult situations, particularly where they have youngsters who need to be looked after on a full-time basis and where one parent has to be at home. We need to look at this matter in a slightly different way. You cannot draw a line in respect of a certain income level and leave it at that. We have to focus on the child and on the needs of the child.

Senator Aisling Dolan

I welcome the Minister. I acknowledge the work that has been done by the Department of Social Protection over the past 12 months.

The budget focuses on and supports people who are struggling with the cost of living. It is a budget for people who are struggling and those who are vulnerable. I acknowledge the supports for people over 70 and the changes to the living alone allowance.

It is important that the fuel allowance is in place. The allowance gives people an additional €33 per week, or they can take two lump-sum payments, between October and April. It is crucial to acknowledge that the expansion of the fuel allowance scheme from January will bring so many more people into the net. Those people will receive support. It is also crucial to acknowledge that, for example, a single person over the age of 70 and living alone could have €500 coming in.

They may have a pension if they worked in the UK or a pension here. It may be a couple who have €1,000 coming in. The first €20,000 is an income disregard. Every little bit helps, as goes the famous ad, because people are trying to make every euro go further. The people we are trying to help the most are the ones who have given so much during their lives and now may be afraid to turn the heating on. The Minister has stood up and, through this budget, made sure those people are very aware they will have support from this Government in the time ahead.

I also acknowledge the supports she has put in place and that the lump sum payments are the way the Government has looked to make sure the payments will benefit people immediately. Those immediate payments came right into their accounts. People are seeing the benefit through electricity credits; lump sum payments of the living alone allowance; disability payment and double payments of child benefit. Families have been grateful to see this coming to them over the past number of months. The challenge we face, as we always face when we do these initiatives, is in administrative supports to manage these additional allocations. I understand the fuel allowance will be an online application form. The Department and officials may provide information for community groups and active retirement groups around how to access this funding and the ways they will be able to apply for it.

I know from some of the information with which the Minister has provided us that she is extending the JobsPlus scheme. This is very important. In the area I am in, the schemes we have already such as the community employment, CE, scheme are ways for people to re-engage in community work. There are so many volunteers. In my own area in Ballinasloe and throughout Roscommon, many people get involved in local community groups and give of their time. We talk about the essence of volunteering being part of what makes small towns great but we face a challenge in that we need CE schemes, payments and JobsPlus to encourage and bring more people back into the workforce, back to contributing to their communities and give many people, of who I am aware, the interest in going into further education. This is a way to do that. It is a way to really connect people with all of the supports we have in our towns.

The year ahead will be difficult and there will still be considerable challenges in the coming months. The challenge before the Department and officials will be in supporting the most vulnerable people. What we have seen is very welcome. Hand on heart, the feedback I have been receiving from talking with people in my own region is that these initiatives are very welcome. I thank the Minister and her officials for bringing them forward. They are new and innovative and have answered a real need.

Senator Seán Kyne

The Minister is welcome as is the Social Welfare Bill. It is a far cry from what we faced back in 2011 to 2014 in terms of what we can do. We are doing things in this budget because they are the right things to do but also because we are in a position to do them, given the strength and management of the economy and the fact we have such strong tax receipts. A considerable number of beneficial changes were made with regard to the payment rates for social protection and I will touch on a few.

The pool of eligible participants for CE schemes throughout the country has been widened. Community employment schemes are the heart and blood of many communities throughout the country. The changes made to those schemes are to be welcomed. With regard to the PRSI thresholds in section 4, they are considerably beneficial in that the increase in the national wage will not the ability to benefit from the lower rate of employer PRSI. There have been increases in the rate for maternity, adoptive, paternity and parent's benefit, as well an increase in the rate of payments for self-employed persons while claiming jobseeker's benefit. There have been increases in the weekly income threshold to qualify for working family payments and a provision for the once-off payment for CE supervisors and assistant supervisors. The income disregarded for environmental schemes has been almost doubled under agricultural payments.

All of these are very welcome and will make a real difference to people's lives up and down the country. The Minister is to be commended on them as well as on the changes to the fuel allowance scheme. The fuel allowance has been expanded in order that older persons' households will receive the payment. The weekly income threshold for persons over 70 to qualify for the allowances are increasing significantly. The weekly income income threshold for people aged under 70 will significantly increase from €100 to €200 over the weekly rate of the State pension. All of these are very welcome changes that have been made under the Social Welfare Bill.

I will raise a couple of issues. One relates to rates for the school meals programme. I have raised this before. There is concern about the companies providing hot schools meals withdrawing from the system because they cannot make it pay. That is having an impact. The scheme is very worthwhile and benefits so many children up and down the country by making sure they have school meals. There has been no change to the rates for a number of years and with the extra cost of energy and everything else that has gone on, we have seen companies withdraw from provision of hot school meals. I ask the Minister to reply to that.

The other issue concerns free travel. I know we have had it for many years but I have come across a situation whereby pensioners and, indeed, anyone looking to book a seat online is being asked for an online booking fee. The fee can vary from €3 to €5. Even though the person is not paying for the seat, he or she is paying to book the seat on an online system. It is making a mockery of the free travel scheme. I will put on the record Irish Rail does not charge a fee but other companies do charge to book a seat, even for those on the free travel scheme.

Senator Maria Byrne

I thank the Minister for coming in to discuss this all-important Bill. I compliment her on the amount of work she has done to date, certainly with regard to the different payments that were geared towards people at the lower end of the scale, as well as working families. I have come across an anomaly with regard to older people. I was speaking to a 102-year-old woman during the week. Her granddaughter is living with her because she is working towards purchasing a house. The lady cannot qualify for the fuel allowance because her granddaughter is living with her. There may be cases in the future that could be looked at. This woman is very upfront about declaring everything correctly. The granddaughter does not contribute to the household as such because her grandmother is trying to give her a start to buying her own house. The cases of people in those kinds of circumstances could be looked at down the line. However, overall, there has been fantastic uptake and welcome from people in receipt of the different payments and they have helped people towards the cost of living.

I will follow up on the school meals programme, which has been very successful. I welcome that it was expanded to many schools. The programme is mainly in DEIS schools at present. Are there plans to expand it to all schools in the future? Perhaps the Minister would be able to give her thoughts on that. Overall, the Social Welfare Bill is very positive. I welcome the change the Minister is making to CE schemes with regard to supervisors and assistant supervisors. I am involved in a community centre. Supervisors and assistant supervisors in CE schemes are the heart of the community.

They do so much work and without them, a lot of the community centres would not be operational. I would like to pay tribute to those people and I commend the Minister for the changes her Department has made to support them. I also want to thank the Minister for the changes to the income disregard in the context of agri-environmental schemes, which affects both farm assist payments and job seeker payments.

Senator Jerry Buttimer

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank her for her stewardship of the Department of Social Protection. In his contribution earlier, Senator Kyne rightly book marked where we have come from with where we are today. In this evening's debate we should acknowledge the importance of the Fine Gael, Labour Party Government over a five year period. It stabilised the country and created a platform to enable us to get where we are today. Senator Wall is here as a Labour Party representative and his party should be given credit for being a partner in government with Fine Gael and for making decisions at a time when it was not easy. The job of government is to make the right decisions, not to be populist or to try to be all things to all people.

This is a transformational budget and the social welfare package therein targets people at different points on the scale. The Minister's flexibility and her acumen in terms of being able to see around the corner is something the Government should rely on more. Her responsiveness and alacrity in terms of making decisions and making changes will be needed again given the war in Ukraine, which is not ending any time soon, the cost of living crisis and the serious challenges facing us.

We use the word households a lot but I would remind everyone that households are people and it is people's lives that are being affected. I hope we never forget that we are talking about people. We are talking about mums and dads who are making decisions today, grandparents, single parents and so on. We are talking about all of us who make decisions that have an impact. Each of us in our political offices and lives meet and engage with people every day who are genuinely worried about the future. They may be optimistic but they are also worried and concerned. It is more expensive to shop, energy prices have gone up, diesel and petrol prices are fluctuating and people are turning to the Government for support. The Government has to be fair in terms of its social welfare package of €1.2 billion which is the enabling financial scaffolding.

While this may not be an issue specifically for the Department of Social Protection, I have a fear that in the months of January and February we will see many small and medium enterprises in a bit of bother. As I speak, I see someone from Cork in the Public Gallery, Mr. John Cleary, who is an extraordinary man. In the teeth of the recession in 2011 he took a brave risk, began a project in Mahon Point, created employment and invested in our city. It was one of the few sod-turning events attended at the time by the then Taoiseach, former Deputy Enda Kenny. Mr. Cleary has just walked into the Public Gallery. I did not know he was coming in, lest anyone think it was choreographed. People like Mr. Cleary took a gamble at that time and I thank him and others in Cork for doing so. To move forward to today, I have a concern that in the spring of next year we will see people closing shops, restaurants and cafés and in those circumstances, the State will have to get involved. We were very strong in government in the past with our action plan for jobs and getting people back to work.

Finally, I commend the Minister's earlier point about community employment schemes. She is right in saying it is difficult to get people to participate in such schemes in the context of near full employment but those schemes have the capacity to transform our communities. They enhance the public realm and the facilities therein and I am glad the Department is showing a degree of flexibility with regard to community employment schemes. I commend the Minister on her work in the Department of Social Protection.

An Cathaoirleach

I join Senator Buttimer in welcoming Mr. Cleary to the House. It is so important that in the midst of trouble, people are willing to rise above the climate and see beyond the horizon. I thank him and others for that. I also agree with Senator Buttimer's point about community employment schemes. They are very important to so many communities. The community employment supervisor issue has been raised in this House many times with the current and previous Ministers for Social Protection. Supervisors are seeking a gratuity and I know the Minister has been dealing with that issue, as have her predecessors. As the Minister knows well, community employment schemes in places like Drum and other villages around the country are crucially important in rural Ireland.

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Heather Humphreys)

I thank Senators for their contributions this evening. In the past couple of years this State has had to deal with a pandemic, an energy shock, rising inflation and a war on our continent. Despite this, employment is now higher than it was before the pandemic and the Government has delivered the highest social protection budget in the 100 year history of the State.

I will now respond to some of the issues raised by Senators during the course of this debate. Senators Craughwell and Burke raised the issue of class K PRSI. This is a sensitive issue and any changes would need to have cross-party support. I fully understand the arguments the Senators made but an all-party approach needs to be taken to this issue. In that context, I suggest that the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands examines the issue of class K PRSI. It should consult with Oireachtas members past and present, from all parties and none, engage with people who have lost their seats to hear their stories and determine whether this is something that is putting people off getting involved in politics. If I get a report from the committee which shows there is cross-party support for action on class K, I will consider it and happily act upon it. That said, I must stress the need for cross-party support on this issue.

Senators Kyne, Curry and Maria Byrne all raised the issue of school meals. I have commissioned an evaluation of the school meals scheme and expect to receive a report before the end of the year. I am conscious that the cost of food has increased considerably and I know that the rates paid under the scheme have not increased for a good few years. While I cannot say it for certain, I expect the evaluation will recommend an increase in the rates and if it does so, I will act on that. I am absolutely committed to expanding the school meals scheme. There were only 30 schools getting hot school meals as part of a pilot scheme when I came into the Department just over two years ago but now more than 500 schools are benefitting from the scheme. I firmly believe a hot dinner in the middle of the day is the best thing we can give to children in school. There is no doubt about that. It helps to improve their educational attainment and ensures that children get a proper dinner. As a mother, I remember filling my children's lunch boxes but if I missed a day or two before I got into their school bags, I would often find a few blue, mouldy sandwiches in the bottom of them, despite my best efforts to make them as attractive as possible. I would love to expand the hot meals programme across the board, regardless of socioeconomic background. We should give all children a good hot dinner in the middle of the day. It will help working parents so they do not have the torture every night of trying to put a lunch together. I am totally committed to the expansion of that scheme.

It is important to point out that CSO statistics show that against the 2010 baseline, the number of children in consistent poverty has fallen by 45,000, from 107,000 in 2011 down to 62,000 in 2021.

The consistent poverty rate fell by 4.1 percentage points, from 9.3% in 2011 to 5.2% in 2021. While income supports are important, access to affordable and available services, including housing, health, childcare, education and so on, plays an equally strong and potentially more sustainable role in addressing child poverty. Social protection budgets over the past years have prioritised the introduction of measures that have had and will continue to have a direct and positive impact on poverty, particularly on child poverty. We had increases in the weekly child-related payments and in the working family payment threshold. That is aimed at supporting working families and ensuring that work pays. There have been improvements to the means testing of payments for lone parents, increases to the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance, and increases in the weekly rates of payment for all schemes. As already stated, the hot school meals scheme has been expanded. There is a double child benefit payment as part of the cost-of-living measures in budget 2023. There is a range of lump-sum payments.

As with every budget, we can never do everything we want to do. There will always be more asks and more things that we would like to do. In this budget, we have struck a fair balance. All the analysis shows that this is a positive budget, particularly for the most vulnerable. The ESRI said that the weekly welfare increases, together with the one-off measures, mean that low-income households will be better off next year than they would if we had just increased welfare rates in line with inflation. A report from the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council that the Government has got the balance right between protecting vulnerable households and avoiding adding to inflation. We have tried to cover as many things as we can.

In response to Senator Wall, like many Members, I recognise the important service of community welfare officers. There is a full-time community welfare officer in all 50 Intreo centres nationwide, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. from Monday to Friday. Community welfare officers remain available to ten clinics. They can talk to people over the phone. Where needed, they can also arrange to visit a person's house by appointment. We are genuinely doing everything we can to facilitate and help people. However, a client does not have to attend an office in person to make a claim or an inquiry about a claim. If it is more convenient for people, they can call the community welfare service's freefone line. There has been a significant increase in the number of people who are using the phone line. In many cases, it has been possible to help them through a phone call or a number of phone calls. The delivery of a locally based community welfare service remains and will continue to remain a key aspect of the service. This will not change.

The carer's allowance was mentioned. It is part of the system of social assistance supports which provide payments based on an income need. The means test plays the critical role in determining whether or not an income need arises as a consequence of a particular contingency, whether that is illness, disability, unemployment or caring. The means test for carer's allowance is one of the most generous in the social protection system. However, I have said that I will look at means tests across all schemes and with regard to savings. At the moment, if people have more than €20,000 in savings, that will affect the means test. Some €20,000 is not as big an amount as it was even six or seven years ago. I have increased that means test from €20,000 to €50,000 for the new fuel allowance for over-70s. I will look at all the means tests across the board.

I think I have covered most issues that were raised with me. I thank the Deputies for their comments. I look forward to progressing this Bill through the House.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Senator Paddy Burke

Next Tuesday.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 13 December 2022.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 7.35 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 8.00 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 7.35 p.m. and resumed at 8.00 p.m.