Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 13 Jun 2023

Vol. 294 No. 11

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

An Cathaoirleach

Prior to calling the Leader to announce the Order of Business, it is my sad duty as Cathaoirleach to announce to the House that the passing of our former colleague and friend, former Leas-Chathaoirleach, Paul Coghlan, occurred during our recess. As many of you will know, Paul Coghlan was a proud Kerryman, one of five children, a friend to all of us, who made a huge contribution to the life of Kerry from a tourism, enterprise and business perspective, but also as one of the founding shareholders of Radio Kerry. As Members will know, as a trustee of Muckross House, he had a great love of that institution and was a very proud advocate on behalf of the people of Kerry and Killarney.

As a Member of this House, he had a long and distinguished career as a five-time Senator. He was a member of Kerry County Council and Killarney Urban District Council, serving as the Mayor of Killarney on two occasions. As was said yesterday at his Mass, it was in this Chamber that Paul Coghlan really found his political home. He served here as Government Chief Whip and as Leas-Chathaoirleach in the last Seanad before his retirement in 2020. He served on many different Oireachtas committees. He served with distinction on the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and was a long-standing member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, where he really enjoyed his term and took to his role as a convener and as chair of one of the groups with complete honesty and integrity, working across the political divide with all sides. He was also Chair of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee and provided great stewardship of that committee.

As I said, Paul Coghlan was a very proud Kerryman and yesterday, at his funeral, the love of his family really shone through in the comments of Michael. He was a friend to many of us in this Chamber. He had very few political enemies, if any. He reached across the aisle in a professional, social and collegiate way to make sure that work got done, and he always had that sense of camaraderie and friendship with every Member of the House and with staff.

On my own behalf, I have lost a great friend and mentor and a person I have known for over 30 years. He never gave bad advice. He was always a steady voice of calm and reason. To his wife Peggy, his children Michael, Mairead, Áine, John Paul and Aoife, his sisters Aileen and Anne, his brother Michael, his grandchildren and his great circle of friends, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Members, I extend my sympathy and that of the House. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

I call on the Leader to announce the Order of Business for today.

Senator Lisa Chambers

For the information of Members, I will move a motion for expressions of sympathy once the Order of Business for today has been agreed.

The Order of Business is No. 1, address to Seanad Éireann by Ms Annita Demetriou, President of the House of Representatives of Cyprus, to be taken at 4 p.m. in accordance with the arrangements set out in the motion agreed by the House on Tuesday, 30 May 2023; and No. 2, Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Second Stage, to be taken at 5.30 p.m. and to adjourn at 8 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed 15 minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes and all other Senators not to exceed eight minutes.

Senator Tim Lombard

I echo the Cathaoirleach's comments on the famous and wonderful former Senator Paul Coghlan. He was a wonderful spirit and character who will be sadly missed. I was in Killarney on Sunday evening for the removal of the remains and there was a great crowd there. Paul Coghlan was a special character. He was great fun and had great insight into politics. Life is built around characters and he is certainly one of the characters I will miss. I acknowledge the Cathaoirleach's wonderful contribution. Paul was a friend to all of us and we feel his loss deeply.

I raise the issue of the State Examinations Commission, SEC, how we are fixed with the leaving certificate examination and, in particular, the maths paper that students sat in the last few days. Three days into the leaving certificate examinations, this whopper of a maths paper came out. The condemnation from all sides has been unbelievable. I will refer to some of the comments that have been made in the media on this. Mr. Tom Lowry, the principal of a school in Westmeath, was on RTÉ Radio 1 yesterday. He said: "I have only one message for the SEC: shame on you." That is very strong terminology from a school principal. Mr. Eoghan O'Leary, the vice president of the Irish Mathematics Teachers Association, teaches in Hamilton High School in Bandon. He described how teachers and students believe the maths examination was cruel and crushing. He said it was tipped more in favour of failing than passing. It is a really significant issue that the SEC put forward this maths paper. The issue with this paper was the change in form and the wordiness of the questions. Students found it hard to understand what was being asked in the questions. It was not a maths examination they were sitting. One of the issues I find hard to understand is that the Dyslexia Association of Ireland has been campaigning for so long to have extra time allotted for examinations. What did the SEC do? It did not give extra time. The knock-on implication is that it set more wordy questions in the maths paper to make sure these students would find it harder to do exams. This created a very significant issue three days into an examination cycle, which is hard on a good day, without making it more difficult. There are significant questions for the SEC and the Minister. I respectfully assert that the Minister needs to issue a response. I do not accept the argument that we will have the same number of A, B and C grades. The real issue here is that confidence among the school community has been shattered in the last few days. I have had parents, teachers and students contacting me about it. The SEC needs to make a decent statement, as opposed to the one it issued which was not appropriate in any way.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I, too, echo the Cathaoirleach's contribution and that of Senator Lombard in relation to former Senator Paul Coghlan. Paul was an out-and-out gentleman. He was a super character. On behalf of the Fianna Fáil group, I pass on our deepest sympathies to the Coghlan family at this sad and difficult time.

I also raise the issue of the leaving certificate higher maths paper, which students sat last Friday. As we all know, the leaving certificate is a very stressful time, not just for students but for their entire family. I have spoken to a number of young people who sat the higher maths paper last week. They came out of it shocked, as many did. They told me that many students were in tears and left the exam hall early.

Something has clearly gone badly wrong. The question referred to was not touched on at all in the syllabus. That is difficult to understand. Someone in the State examination board needs to answer the question as to what went wrong. I have written to the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, to find out exactly what did happen. My main focus is on ensuring that whoever ends up correcting higher level maths paper 1 is sympathetic to the plight of those young students and that it will be reflected in the marks. I also suggest that Members of this House write to the Minister expressing those sentiments. It knocked the students back and shattered their confidence. As it is a stressful time, word should get out sooner rather than later with regard to the difficulty of that paper that first, it should not happen again and second, it should be taken into account when the paper is being marked.

The other issue is one I raised the week before last as a Commencement matter about retained firefighters. I called on all sides to come together to try to find a solution. I spoke with a number of firefighters in my own county of Monaghan. Today, as we speak, two of the fire stations are closed due to industrial action. Not one of these firefighters wants to be out picketing. That is not what they are about. They are providing a community service. They receive the paltry sum of €700 per month as a retainer. For that, they must live within 3 km of the fire station and be able to arrive at a call-out within five minutes. They are providing a service to the community. It is disappointing that we have arrived at a point where these people feel they have to go on strike. They do not want to be there. I again ask the Leader that we contact the Minister, to implore that all sides come to an agreement as soon as possible.

Senator Victor Boyhan

First, I associate myself with the Cathaoirleach's words about former Senator Paul Coghlan. He was truly a character and a great friend and he loved this place. Anyone who was here the day he was elected as Leas-Chathaoirleach saw those genuine tears of emotion. He was an emotional type of man, and a great character. He was one of the great people of this House. He was fiercely proud of the Seanad and about its retention on the basis that it would be a meaningful place and network of engagement. He did amazing work in the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, of which I was a member. While we flew there, he always went by boat and train. He did not like travel. He was always first there. You would arrive at all sorts of places, and the first guy you would meet was Paul Coghlan welcoming you. It did not matter if it was Jersey, London, Scotland or Wales. That was him. He was fiercely committed. I join with the Cathaoirleach in his appropriate words.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business in respect of No. 2, Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Second Stage, to the effect that all Senators should not exceed 12 minutes. The current proposal is that group spokespersons not exceed 12 minutes, and all other Senators not exceed eight minutes. Our proposal is that it be extended to 12 minutes. I hope the Leader can agree to that. I do not think it should be a difficulty.

An Cathaoirleach

On a point of clarification, is Senator Boyhan proposing that all Senators who wish to speak on the Bill receive 12 minutes?

Senator Victor Boyhan

Yes. Finally, I want to talk about the news that broke regarding the 14 hooded men. What a travesty. We have all spoken in this House about the legacy of Northern Ireland and the dividend of the peace process. There are legacy issues on all sides of this political debate. However, I am glad that we have seen today an apology to these 14 men, half of whom are now dead. It is a travesty. It is a terrible thing that should never have happened. I know I speak among colleagues and friends. I always say that in politics we advocate human rights; basic human rights for people. These human rights were infringed. It reminds us today, it we were to need reminding, that we must stop the British authorities in their endeavours regarding their policy direction on legacy issues. Today's apology is only one apology.

Many more apologies are due. Who sanctioned these crimes? Who sanctioned the treatment of men who were held? We are talking about a sample of 14 out of many hundreds of people. I am not here to judge the rights and wrongs of it, except to condemn the abuse of human rights. I welcome further commentary, statement or debate in the House on this issue. Let us renew our resolve to use every force, be it in the US, Europe or Ireland, and our relationships between Britain, Northern Ireland and within these islands, to keep to the fore the issues of legacy and how we can address them in a mature and political way.

Senator Paul Gavan

I very much welcome the Cathaoirleach's words regarding our late colleague, Mr. Paul Coghlan. I extend not just my sympathies but those of my Sinn Féin colleagues to Paul's family and friends, and the Fine Gael Party. Paul was always an absolute gentleman. He was a very warm human being. He was someone who went out of his way to make all of us welcome when we first arrived in the House. He was an incredibly knowledgeable man but he wore that knowledge very lightly. My abiding memory of him will be of the great craic he could be if you had the time to have a jar with him at any stage. He was just an exceptional human being. On the face of it, we did not have much in common politically, but he had such a sense of decency and fair play that was really at the heart of his character. I often found myself not just agreeing with Paul but was almost in awe of the man because he was just a wonderful human being. It is very important that we remember him today.

I concur with what Senator Boyhan said about the hooded men. It is shocking that this apology has taken so long. It underlines why we need to push back on the British Government's plans regarding the legacy Bill. I will speak on it next week at the Council of Europe's human rights body. I have no doubt that our colleagues from across the parties will join with us on that. We need to give a very clear message to the British Government that this nonsense has to stop. It is a unique situation when all political parties in Ireland, North and South, are at one on this legacy Bill being an absolute travesty and having to end.

I will talk about the firefighters' SIPTU trade union dispute. Fire stations in Rathkeale, Abbeyfeale and Cappamore in County Limerick, the county where I live, are on strike today. I heard Ms Karan O'Loughlin, the SIPTU official, speak very passionately on "Morning Ireland" this morning. These people do not want to go on strike. They did not want to on strike and are at pains to stress that emergency cover will be there. We should consider two things. First, the typical earnings for a retained firefighter are €700 a month. God forbid, how can anyone manage on that? Those firefighters have to stay within 3 km of where they live in order to qualify for that payment. How has this has not been addressed to date by the Government, specifically by the Ministers, Deputies Darragh O'Brien and Donohoe, is beyond me. Second, we should not forget that local authorities, which employ these workers, insist that if they take a job in a local authority, they have to resign their position as a retained firefighter. I do not think it is widely known that local authority workers are prevented from actually becoming retained firefighters. In other words, it is left entirely to the private sector. That is a fundamental flaw in the model which has to be addressed. I call for an urgent debate on this matter. There will be further escalation of strike action unless the Government acts. We know the solution is more funding to give a decent rate of pay to these workers. We need delivery from the Ministers.

Senator Marie Sherlock

On behalf of the Labour Party, I extend the condolences of our party to the family of Paul Coghlan and all his party colleagues.

I also extend my condolences and those of my party to the family of the late John Murphy. He was one of two men who were very seriously injured in an incident at the Stryker plant in Carrigtwohill, County Cork, in April this year. Sadly, John lost his life last week. It is obviously an enormous tragedy for his family and colleagues but it is important to say, while we have to await the outcome of the investigation into his death and the explosion that took place in that plant, SIPTU representatives have been trying to get a meeting with management at the Stryker plant at Carrigtwohill.

Thus far, Stryker has been resisting that. We saw 27 lives were lost last year and there were many more injuries in Irish workplaces. If we are serious about health and safety, there has to be a partnership between those representing workers and management in every workplace in this country.

I send our solidarity to the firefighters who are on strike today. As has been said, these people do not want to go on strike, but for the safety of their communities and their own dignity and respect in the low-paid jobs that they do, they have been forced into this situation. We have heard loose commitments with regard to recruitment but we also need commitments with regard to pay. I am struck by what Senator Gavan said - that in many local authorities now one cannot be a retained firefighter and have a job in a local authority. The opposite used to be the case. There was an arrangement across most local authorities that one could be a retained firefighter and be a member of the local authority but that has been reversed.

Finally, today marks the turning of the sod - in less than half an hour’s time - for a new school building for Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire on Dominick Street in Dublin 1. This school is now into its 21st year in temporary accommodation. Of course, success has many fathers and mothers. There will be many people claiming credit for today. It is important to note that it was the school community - the principal, the staff and the parents - who had to go through many years of false dawns and all sorts of delays and disappointments before finally getting to today, when the sod will be turned. I wish the school all the very best. In particular, I pay tribute to those in the school community who have ensured that today is happening.

Senator Eugene Murphy

I join others in paying my respects to the late Paul Coghlan. He was a joy to know. He was a humorous and kind man. He had a good outlook on life and always saw the bright side of things, no matter what uncertainty. It was a privilege to have been here with him for a while. I got to know him over the years because I knew him before I came into the House.

I also express my support for the firefighters. I am quite hopeful that the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, and the Government will be quite positive on this. It is not that they are holding back on anything at all. They have to get this right. I am hopeful that the money will be released to improve the firefighters’ circumstances. When a firefighter leaves their job, they have to drop everything they are at as a farmer, as somebody on the factory floor or whatever. Of course, as was correctly said, they have to live within their own areas. When the time comes, they must go. We have to be cognisant of the fact that they are involved in saving lives, saving people's houses and going out to accidents on roads, and in quite a lot of rescues. I do not think there is anybody who does not support better pay for them. In some cases in some aspects of employment in the private sector, wages are reduced if they are away for three or four hours. I am very supportive of them.

Finally, legislation regarding credit unions is going through at the moment. It is a significant day for County Roscommon because when Bank of Ireland pulled out of Strokestown and Elphin, it devastated the whole area. Basically, as far as it could, the credit union has taken up the slack. Thanks to the Roscommon Credit Union manager, we have four new ATMs in our towns. Business people and others were very depressed when the banks pulled the plug the way they did. What they did was shameful. It is great to see the credit unions. We had the Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, down this morning and she is very enthusiastic about her job. Along with the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, in the past, and the Ministers, Deputies McGrath and Donohoe, she has been very conscious of the need to give further support to credit unions. The Central Bank still has too much of a hold on credit unions. In respect of the reserves they have, that matter needs to be dealt with.

We could have a debate on that, allowing for the fact that legislation is going before the House. It will not affect that issue.

Senator John Cummins

I too join Members in expressing my deep sympathy to the family and friends of the late, great Paul Coghlan. It was an absolute pleasure to have known what I would describe as the most generous and kind man. He gave of his time to so many in terms of nurturing and advising people, including me, over the years. I will always be thankful for that.

I too would like to raise the issue of the retained firefighters. It is disappointing that we have reached a point whereby people who give their time to serve the public in the most difficult of circumstances have to be out on strike today. It is not a circumstance that any of them are happy with. Obviously, emergency cover is still being provided but it is very disappointing that we have reached this point. As others have said, a payment of €700 a month, or €8,500 a year, plus call-out fees is not a sustainable model. The model has to be re-examined. In the past, people were employed by the local authority sector but that is no longer the case. It is difficult for private employers to allow people time off. That impacts on operations. The restrictions in terms of the 3 km requirement, if people can get a job in their local area, are very challenging for all concerned. I support the call for a debate on this issue. I want all parties to get around the table and come up with a framework for a resolution of this dispute that will look favourably on workers in terms of their remuneration. I want to get back to having an excellent service provided as soon as possible.

Senator Michael McDowell

I identify completely with every word the Cathaoirleach, as a good friend of the late Paul Coghlan, has spoken, as well as the words of all of my colleagues. Paul Coghlan was a true gentleman. He had a huge interest in the law, something most people are not aware of. He spent a lot of time in judges' chambers and sitting in courts with judges. He loved the company of lawyers and brought that interest into all of his dealings in the House.

I agree with Senator Lombard on the leaving certificate honours maths paper. It is a terrible thing to do to kids. Somebody should take the rap for that. We cannot decide to do something to people who are under huge stress. When teachers saw the paper and were strong in their condemnation of it, it should have been obvious to the State Examinations Commission how wrong that was.

On firefighters, I want to simply say that, as the Leader will be aware, this is part of a general malaise in Ireland whereby those who volunteer to serve the country are taking a hammering. The Garda Reserve is down to a quarter of its strength. The Army Reserve is way down to a pitiful level and Civil Defence numbers have gone down by more than half in the past few years. This group of people who give voluntarily part of the time for a very modest stipend deserve to be treated better.

On a good note, I recommend to all Members of the House to look back on the Tony Connelly programme last night produced by RTÉ. It was an amazing programme. It was really instructive and provided lot of food for thought.

Senator Mark Daly

I join others in expressing my deepest sympathies to the Coghlan family on the passing of the former Senator Paul Coghlan. The Cathaoirleach's words encompass some of what he accomplished in a span of political activity from an urban district council, where he proudly served as mayor of Killarney, to this House, where he championed issues relating to Ireland at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly.

Former Senator Paul Coghlan was one of those who championed this House and represented it and Ireland abroad in British-Irish parliamentary friendship groups and in Westminster and Northern Ireland. He used his contacts in the House of Commons and Houses of Lords with regard to Brexit issues.

He was also involved in Killarney House and raised it as matter in this House for many years. He kept at it. He was relentless and he got there, which is a great tribute to him. He was involved in the founding of Radio Kerry which, of course, is the voice of the kingdom. That led to grillings of myself and himself. Sometimes we have to be careful what we wish for. He has made sure that the voice of the people of Kerry is heard not only in Kerry but also in this House by raising issues through this forum. He loved Killarney Golf and Fishing Club and represented it. He represented Kerry and he is a great loss to the county and to his family. I join the Cathaoirleach in expressing our sympathies to the Coghlan family on their sad loss of a great Senator.

Senator Maria Byrne

I join in the expressions of sympathy on the death of former Senator Paul Coghlan. He was a gentleman whom I had known for many years before I met him in this House in 2016. He was a very welcoming man who was very kind and friendly. He touched the lives of many people. He was always there to lend a hand and give advice down through the years. He will be sadly missed by all and I extend my sympathies to the Coghlan family.

The issue of the leaving certificate maths paper was raised by Senators Lombard and McDowell. I join them in expressing my concerns not only about the leaving certificate but also about the junior certificate. I do not know how many distraught students and parents contacted me over the weekend. One student sent me a text over the weekend asking whether there was any hope the State Examinations Commission could be brought before the Oireachtas committee. This is how stressed this person is about it. This is a H1 leaving certificate student, who is very upset about it. This student has never been so stressed about anything. I hope the that bell curve we all hear about will be kind to people. Students having this stress in the middle of their exams is not acceptable.

There were legal objections to, and a judicial review of, the furthering of the Limerick to Foynes road with the bypass of Adare. The objections were withdrawn in recent days. This is very welcome news. Not only does Adare need a bypass but the Limerick to Foynes road has become very busy with tourists coming through the port. The road is much needed and it is welcome news.

Senator Fintan Warfield

I wish to be associated with the Cathaoirleach's remarks and extend my sympathy to the family of Paul Coghlan. It was a pleasure to work with him in the previous Seanad term from 2016.

The European institutions are working on a directive that will affect the rights of millions of platform workers, including those who drive for Uber and Deliveroo. Yesterday the European Council watered down initial proposals from the European Commission and the European Parliament that would potentially strip millions of workers of sick leave, holiday pay, parental leave and security of tenure. Ireland has the second-highest rate of platform workers in Europe. Millions of people are in bogus self-employment throughout the EU. To deny so many people basic rights is outrageous. Unfortunately it is no surprise that Ireland supported weakening the text. We need an Irish Government that will not dismantle the rights of workers and trade unions.

We need a Sinn Féin Government to undo the policies that have increased in-work poverty and cemented the low-pay status quo, which incidentally has led to our firefighters taking industrial action today. I express my solidarity with those striking fire fighters.

Senator Sharon Keogan

I also want to be associated with the expressions of sympathy for former Senator Paul Coghlan. I only met him once, when he called to my office in 2016. My office at the time was a hut which the parish priest had given me after the fire at my business premises. When he came in, there was nowhere to sit because there were people already there so we had to sit in my car. I found him to be a very warm human being. If that is the impression you leave with people after you have gone, that says something. I extend my sympathies to his family.

I seek a debate on the Government's future plans for managing international protection applicants in the context of the EU's voluntary solidarity mechanism, which requires member states to accommodate refugees or pay a financial contribution in the event that they choose not to, or cannot, accommodate such persons. The Government has opted for the latter in recent days, agreeing to pay a lump sum of €1.5 million to the European Union's solidarity scheme for failing to accommodate 350 refugees. This money will be used to assist with the relocation of refugees in other countries. While this may seem like a steep sum, it pales in comparison to the financial penalties recently agreed by the EU of €20,000 per head for each refugee a member country cannot house or for member states that cannot host refugees because they have reached or, in our case, exceeded capacity.

Why the change of heart? What happened to the Government's no-limit, open door policy? Surely the Government is not saying that Ireland is full because that would make its members dangerous, far-right figures. Has the reality finally managed to sink in, that in this country there are real logistical limits on how many people can live here? Ignoring that fact does not change it. It is baffling how the Government did not see this coming because it was pointed out, time and again. We could all see that the no-limit, open door policy was unsustainable but apparently the Government could not see it. Apparently Government members are entirely incapable of holding in their heads the abstract concept of the consequences of their actions. It took seeing children sleeping on the street before the penny dropped.

On the leaving certificate, I have a foster daughter doing the exam this year. This is her very first State exam. This year's leaving certificate students never sat a State exam because of Covid. This is their very first State exam and to have that maths paper thrown at them was not on. The State Examinations Commission must conduct a review.

Senator Lynn Ruane

I want to extend my condolences to the Coghlan family. I was very saddened to hear of Paul's death. We were very different politically, but when I first met Paul, I think I was trying to break the ice and I went to fist pump him instead of shaking his hand. He kind of ducked for a minute and I had to explain that I was just saying hello. From then on, that was how we greeted each other, whether in the corridors, the canteen, the Chamber or at any events. Paul came running at me with his newly-learned fist pump and a "Hey sister". That is how we greeted each other and it is how I like to remember him. He adapted to my way of greeting instead of expecting me to shake hands in a much more formal way. I want to remember him today, his life and all that he gave to political life.

I would also like to briefly raise the news today around the outside of the Street 66 premises and the decision with regard to outdoor furniture. I know that the premises had an outdoor seating licence during the Covid pandemic but a new licence had to be applied for to install a more permanent outdoor seating structure. The application was denied but I do not know how long a business has to appeal such a decision. I am not sure when the denial of permission to install outdoor furniture came in or how long any appeals process should take. In the interim, bike racks were installed. There is lots of space around the city to erect bike racks but there is not a huge amount of visible space for the LGBTQ community. Street 66 is one of those very obvious places and it feels like there is a pushing back of the visibility of that community on the street. That is something we should be pushing back against or at least asking more questions as to why the bike rack was put outside but the application for furniture structures was denied.

Senator Tom Clonan

I second Senator Boyhan's proposals about the speaking arrangements for the incitement to hatred Bill this afternoon.

I echo the condolences for the former Senator Paul Coghlan and his family. One of the recurring themes in the comments made is the collegiality he brought to the Chamber. Since I arrived here, I have experienced that generosity and collegiality from colleagues. It is a great legacy and long may it continue in both of these Houses.

In that spirit of collegiality, I wish to bring to the attention of the House yet again the fact that we still do not know the names or identities of the speakers for the Tánaiste's consultative forum on neutrality. We are going to have them in the University of Galway, in University College Cork and in Dublin Castle. We are barely two weeks away from it and we still do not know who the speakers are. We do not know by what mechanism they have been selected or on what basis their expertise is predicated. It is an important debate and discussion. I welcome it but we should have had a citizens' assembly on neutrality. I personally believe it is a very important cornerstone of our foreign policy and one that has served us very well. There is no advantage whatsoever to Ireland joining NATO. In the case of the consultative forum, I have no doubt that the speakers will have expertise but the fact that their selection and appointment, and even their identities at this point, seem shrouded in secrecy raises a question. What is the purpose of the consultative forum if we do not even know in advance who the speakers are, what their intellectual or ethical formation is or where their expertise lies? I ask that we prevail upon the Department of Foreign Affairs to identify the speakers without delay today and to explain the manner of their selection.

Senator John McGahon

I would like to speak today about our great friend, the late former Senator Paul Coghlan. I had the honour and privilege of working for Paul Coghlan between 2016 and 2020. I say this genuinely: I have memories, stories, advice and so many things that I will use, not just in my political career but in my life for decades to come, that I was able to learn from Paul Coghlan. Very few politicians enter Leinster House and leave it with the huge number of friends he had and goodwill across all political parties and from everyone in this House. That is a testament to the jovial but, more important, kind nature and kind-hearted personality Paul had. He truly was one of a kind.

Everyone talks about his famous election victory in 2016. He was described as Lazarus because through every Seanad count he survived by one vote or half a vote and came out of nowhere to keep his seat. However, perhaps his most famous win was the 2002 Seanad election when Fine Gael had a meltdown election. The order went out from headquarters to make sure no incumbent Senators kept their seat because we needed to elect people who could win Dáil seats in 2007. Paul Coghlan and Paddy Burke were the two Senators who survived. The general secretary of Fine Gael constantly referred to Paul Coghlan as the one who got away in the 2002 Seanad election because he was so well regarded by all councillors and Members all around this county. Today we are thinking of Peggy and his family. He truly was one of a kind and he will be remembered in this place for many years to come.

Senator Erin McGreehan

I too remember the late former Senator Paul Coghlan from when I worked here as a staff member. He was a wonderful gentleman with a very respectable dose of rascal. He was a real gent and I remember him very fondly. At college, I also knew his daughter Aoife. I send my condolences to all his family and all who loved him, and all his Fine Gael colleagues with whom he had an awful lot of fun and did a lot of work.

In the spirit of what Paul Coghlan stood for - community spirit and loving where you come from - this is a good segue to congratulate my own community of County Louth. This year's Dundalk agricultural show was last Sunday and was attended by thousands. It takes months to organise these groups and it is a symbol of what rural Ireland does and what it celebrates with people from all areas in County Louth.

Small farmers, big farmers and non-farmers all attended on Sunday last in the gorgeous surrounds of Bellurgan House. I wish to congratulate the Dundalk Show committee. They did an incredible job.

An Cathaoirleach

Later today, Senator McGreehan's two sons, Eoin and Dónal, will be in the Oireachtas on a school tour with Mullaghbuoy National School. I am not sure if they will be here before the Order of Business ends. If they are, we will give them a céad míle fáilte. We hope they have a very good visit today. Before I call the Leader, I wish to say to Members that we will in due course have tributes to former the Senator Paul Coghlan in the House. I thank Members for their contributions and warm tributes to the former Senator Paul Coghlan today.

Senator Lisa Chambers

I thank the Cathaoirleach and all Members who contributed. An amendment was proposed to the Order of Business, which I am happy to accept. It was proposed by Senator Boyhan and seconded by Senator Clonan to extend the speaking time of 12 minutes to all Senators. There is no difficulty with that. We are in no rush in the legislation and will give it ample time at all Stages for all Members to contribute to the length they want to.

Senator Lombard raised the issue first this morning of the maths exam at higher level in the leaving certificate, as did many other Senators. I contacted the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, from my office to try to get an update for Members as to what happened and if anything can or will be done about the issue. I acknowledge the issue raised by Members and concur with the remarks that it must have been extremely stressful for the students involved, particularly if they chose to take higher level maths. They put a lot of extra work in, probably to the potential detriment of other subjects. It is a risk which I think was not rewarded adequately with such a difficult paper. I imagine it was quite upsetting mid-way through all of the exams. It can really put you off. There is life after the Leaving Certificate but when you are going through it, it is a big deal. It is all that is happening in your life at that point. It is a big deal at that time not just for the student but for families as well. What happened was very unfortunate. I am not sure whether it is corrective action in terms of the curve and what happened in the last number of years, but students should not have had to go through that.

Senator Gallagher spoke about retained firefighters, an issue which many Members also raised. I drove past some of those on strike this morning in Castlebar. I wish them well in what is their absolute right to exercise, namely, their right to demonstrate. I commend the unions and retained firefighters on agreeing and committing to responding to emergency calls, making sure there is a basic level of cover for citizens while they exercise their right to protest. I was informed by the Minister's office that it is being worked on. A review has been conducted around the sustainability of retained firefighters and the existing service. There is, I am sure, a common ground that can be found to find a resolution acceptable to all sides. I hope that is found sooner rather than later and that talks will continue.

Senator Boyhan welcomed the apology to the 14 men, the "hooded men", as they are sometimes referred to. It points to the importance of not passing the legacy Bill in the UK and the importance of being able to still get justice for people and get those much-needed apologies and closure. It is welcome; better late than never. Senator Gavan again spoke about the retained fire services and mentioned the €700 figure. There was broad agreement that it is a very minimal payment for what is expected. Perhaps there needs to be a broadening of those who can apply to do the job to ensure it is not just certain sections of society. Not everyone will want to do that type of work; it is obviously dangerous but it is a huge service to the country in terms of protecting and saving lives.

Senator Sherlock spoke this morning about the firefighters and she also mentioned Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire, which will by now have turned the first sod. I wish the school and its community well. I think they have been waiting for more than 20 years to get their school started. I wish them well with the new building.

Senator Murphy spoke about credit unions in County Roscommon and said they have stepped in and credit to them. They stepped up to the mark and stepped in when pillar banks stepped away from communities, particularly in rural Ireland. It is great to see new ATMs put in place, particularly when we are moving towards a lot more electronic payments but some people still want to have access to cash. It is good to see that credit unions are meeting that demand in those communities, not just in County Roscommon but further afield as well.

Senator Cummins spoke about the retained firefighters as well. Senator McDowell spoke about the firefighters, the maths paper and the Connelly programme that aired. It was very enjoyable to watch and it was a different take. If anybody has not seen it, more recently, the "Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland" documentary is fascinating. There were different voices we have not heard in previous documentaries. I was struck by listening to the McConville family in that particular documentary. It reminds us about the very recent atrocities in terms of the history of what happened.

The intergenerational trauma is what really struck me. The sons and daughters of those who were bereaved initially are still feeling the pain in their communities. This must be said lest we ever forget.

Senator Mark Daly spoke about Paul Coghlan, as did many other colleagues, and gave a great account of his founding of Radio Kerry, his representations on the issues affecting the Kerry people and his bringing of the voice of the Kerry people to the Oireachtas. It was a very beautiful tribute, as were all those paid by Senators this morning. The overwhelming view, and what is coming back from Members, is that Mr. Coghlan was a really warm, gentle soul, that he was good fun, that he did his job well, that he represented the people who elected him and that he was a good colleague across the House. You could not have kinder things said about you. Getting praise from all sides shows the measure of a person. Condolences to Mr. Coghlan's family, colleagues and community.

Senator Maria Byrne spoke about the withdrawal of objections to the Limerick–Foynes road and the need for the Adare bypass. I absolutely concur with her. I think there have been some difficulties in the Department of Transport with regard to spending the roads budget, but we still need roads. We are a long way off not needing roads, particularly when we are moving to electric vehicles and whatnot. In certain parts of the country, roads are the only show in town and will be for a long time, so it is important that projects committed to under the national development plan in the areas in question be delivered without delay.

Senator Warfield spoke about workers' rights, platform workers and moves at European level to implement changes to the rights of platform workers. I take on board the Senator's comments. Many people in this country work for platforms like Deliveroo and Uber and are free now. It is important that they have good working conditions and good rights.

Senator Keogan spoke about the voluntary solidarity mechanism. I do not believe it ever involved an open-door policy, as such, but obviously we have international commitments on assisting people who come here to seek refuge, for whatever reason, be it related to climate change, economic issues or war in their home country. People come for various reasons. That a voluntary solidarity mechanism was agreed at EU level meant member states acknowledged that there would be a challenge and that some countries were getting more than their fair share. I am thinking of the likes of Greece, in particular, which is on the front line. Other countries that are now on the front line of the war in Ukraine are experiencing huge numbers coming in. We need to rebalance across the European Union such that every country pulls its weight and does its fair share. I do not have a difficulty with countries using the mechanism; that is what it is for. Ultimately, it means those seeking refuge can go somewhere they can get a bed and be accommodated. If we cannot do that here, I do not have a difficulty in paying to make sure it happens elsewhere. That is why we are working across the Union. We are part of the same team.

Senator Ruane spoke about the bar Street 66. I heard the owner of the establishment on "Today with Claire Byrne" this morning. That was my first time hearing about the issue. If I heard correctly, the owner was given a refusal only on Friday evening and the bike racks were put in on Monday morning. Therefore, it does not appear that the business in question was given an opportunity to appeal. The owner sounded very distressed. There was a busy period coming up for her and the business, and she said there were ten tables and 20 seats outside to which she does not now have access. I am sure this is a big blow to her business. I have no doubt that if the powers that be in Dublin City Council or the various sections of the council spoke to one another, they could probably find a solution that could accommodate the bike rack elsewhere and allow the business to continue trading outside. It seems like a solvable issue, and I have no doubt that the debate on the radio this morning will have prompted people to reflect on what happened over the weekend. Based on my having heard about the matter only this morning and having only very basic information on it, it does not sound like what happened was fair to the individual concerned and her business. The business has had a difficult enough period in the past few years trying to keep trading, and it is still open. Many customers rang in to offer support, which is a credit to the owner and her business. I hope this can be resolved without delay.

Senator Clonan spoke about the consultative forum and the list of speakers. I will raise this issue with the Department on his behalf to see whether we can get some more details on it. I am looking forward to attending myself. I hope to attend on one of the dates in Galway and on one of the Dublin Castle dates. I agree with the Senator that this involves a very important conversation. I have no difficulty with the forum and the way it has been set up. I do not see the need for a citizens' assembly; this will do the job. Everyone is allowed to attend, participate and contribute. It is a hybrid forum in that you can attend online or in person, so it is quite open. It is an exciting debate that we are finally having after many years of skirting and dancing around the matter and being afraid to talk about it. It is long overdue to have the conversation on Ireland's defence and foreign security policy in 2023. It needs updating.

Senator McGreehan spoke about Paul Coghlan.

I think the students from Mullaghbuoy National School in County Louth, Senator McGreehan's old school, are here today. I know Senator McGreehan's boys are in the Gallery as well. They are very welcome to see their mom in action and to Leinster House. I am sure the Cathaoirleach will talk to them in a little bit about the homework situation. There is usually something nice to take away from this. I welcome their teachers as well. It is great to have them here today.

An Cathaoirleach

I welcome students from Mullaghbuoy National School who have a very proud past pupil in Senator McGreehan. Where are Eoin and Donal? Seasaigí suas. Where is Donal? Tá sé anseo. They are very welcome to Leinster House. They can be very proud of their mum and I hope they have a very good day here. Maybe one day they will be here, in replacement of, or maybe with, their mum. Rather than replacing her, they may be with her. Would that not be fun? I thank their teachers for being here. I hope the boys and girls have a pleasant visit to Leinster House. In keeping with tradition, I think the students should have no homework for the rest of the week, given that this is an historic visit. I thank them for being here and we wish them well on their visit.

An amendment to the Order of Business has been proposed in the name of Senator Boyhan, seconded by Senator Clonan: "That, in respect of the Second Stage debate on the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022, the contribution of all Senators shall not exceed 12 minutes". The Leader has indicated she will accept the amendment. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.