Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023

Gnó an tSeanaid - Business of Seanad

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Dia dhaoibh, a cháirde.  I have received notice from the following Senators that they propose to raise the following matters:

Senator Lynn Boylan - The need for the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to make a statement on the recommendation of the Climate Change Advisory Council that the Gas Act be amended, if necessary, in line with the national policy on islanded data centres.

Senator Micheál Carrigy - The need for the Minister for Education to make a statement on the timelines for the delivery of the approved extension to Ardscoil Phádraig, Granard, County Longford.

Senator Victor Boyhan - The need for the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to provide a timeline for the delivery of payments and other prescribed benefits to those who will qualify under the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Act 2023.

Senator Malcolm Byrne - The need for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to provide an update on proposals to improve conditions for retained firefighters and on investment in the fire service.

Senator Marie Sherlock - The need for the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to make a statement on whether local authorities will be reimbursed for the rates refunds to be provided to businesses as part of the as part of the increased cost of business grant.

Senator Paul Gavan - The need for the Minister for Health to make a statement on the number of patients on trolleys at University Hospital Limerick.

Senator Tim Lombard - The need for the Minister for Education to provide an update on the progress and timelines associated with the proposed new build for Summercove National School, Kinsale, County Cork.

The matters raised by the Senators are suitable for discussion and I have selected Senators Lynn Boylan, Micheál Carrigy, Victor Boyhan and Malcolm Byrne and they will be taken now. The other Senators may give notice on another day of the matters that they wish to raise.

Data Centres

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I welcome the Minister of State to the House.

Senator Lynn Boylan

Cuirim fáilte roimhe an Aire Stáit.  I wish to raise the issue of islanded data centres, which rely primarily on on-site fossil fuel generation and direct gas connections. This is a growing concern in our efforts to combat carbon emissions and keep within our carbon budget.

From the time that the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, precluded many new data centre projects from signing up to the electricity network, Gas Networks Ireland, GNI, started seeing increased requests for data centre connections to the gas network on the basis that data centres would operate their own gas-fired generation on site.

In July 2022, the Government adopted its statement on data centres. In many regards, the statement supports the status quo and does not go far enough to properly fix the mess that Fine Gael policy has got us into. However, one thing it did get right was to clarify that new islanded data centres would not be in line with national policy. Also, these would run counter to emissions reduction objectives and would not serve the wider efficiency and decarbonisation of our energy system. The next day the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Ryan, wrote to Gas Networks Ireland to indicate that it would not be appropriate for the organisation to sign any more contracts to connect data centres to the gas grid. I am led to believe that GNI responded and said that it was mandated under the Gas Act to supply connections to third parties.

In September 2022, I raised this matter with the regulator. I put it to CRU that the move to islanded data centres would blow our carbon budget out of the water. The regulator said they "need to look at the implications for the carbon sectoral emissions limits" and "there is a bit more work to be done but we are engaging with GNI on that."

In October 2022, I issued a statement calling on the Government to bring forward emergency legislation, that we need, to prevent data centres from connecting to the gas grid. I also said that whatever roadblocks there were preventing Gas Networks Ireland from following his instruction to stop connecting islanded data centres to the grid had to be cleared.

Unfortunately, a year has elapsed and my call has gone unheeded. In a brazen show of disregard to its line Minister, GNI issued a gas forecast statement which states: "Gas Networks Ireland believe that Data Centres connecting to the gas network could meet... [the principles set out in the Government’s data centre policy statement] ...through the increased use of biomethane and hydrogen” and that it would continue as normal.

The Oireachtas joint environment committee has written to the Climate Change Advisory Council, CCAC, seeking clarification on how a decision like the one to grant Microsoft a data centre in Tallaght could be avoided in the future. In the light of the Government’s Statement on the Role of Data Centres in Ireland’s Enterprise Strategy, the CCAC has now also recommended that the regulator should direct GNI not to sign any more contracts to connect data centres to the gas network where the data centre would be powered mainly by on-site fossil fuel generation under section 10A of the Gas Act to reflect the Government's statement. If there is a legislative barrier, it is imperative that the Government take action to revise the Gas Act in line with national policy and the principles set out in the Government's statement.

The Minister of State present does not have responsibility for this area and I do not mean any disrespect when I say that I am disappointed that neither the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Ryan, nor his Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, could come here to answer my question because the issue I have raised is a real threat to our carbon budget. Does the Minister of State present, considering the response that her ministerial colleagues gave her, see any legislative barrier to preventing GNI from connecting more data centres in this manner? Is there any proposal to take the legislative action that is required to end this procedure where GNI basically ignores directions from the Minister and the climate Act, and continues to connect data centres to its gas grid.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Before I call on the Minister of State, I welcome to the Gallery a group from St. Andrew's National School, Lucan. I welcome Senator Emer Currie, all the students along with Ms Owens, Ms Sweetman and Ms Harper and, most important, Senator Currie's daughter, Cordelia.

They are most welcome and I thank them for coming to Seanad Éireann today. We hope they enjoy their visit. They are in capable hands. I thank Senator Currie.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

I thank Senator Boylan for raising this matter. She is correct that I am responding on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Ryan, and the Department.

I refer the Senator to the July 2022 statement on the role of data centres in Ireland's enterprise strategy. Government policy seeks to enable the twin transitions of digitalisation and decarbonisation of our economy and society. These transitions can and must be complementary. For this to happen, digital and climate change policies need to move in tandem. In July 2022, the Government published a statement on the role of data centres in Ireland's enterprise strategy to ensure alignment with Ireland's renewable energy targets, security of supply, sectoral emissions and climate priorities. This statement sets out principles for sustainable data centre development, which are as follows: economic impact; grid capacity and efficiency; renewables additionality; co-location or proximity with future-proof energy supply; decarbonised data centres by design; and SME access and community benefits. Officials from the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment are working to implement the policy statement.

The Senator mentioned “islanded” data centres. The July 2022 Government statement sets out that “islanded” data centre developments that are not connected to the electricity grid and are powered mainly by on-site fossil fuel generation would not be in line with national policy. These would run counter to emissions reduction objectives and would not serve the wider efficiency and decarbonisation of our energy system. Growth in “islanded” data centres could result in security of supply risk being transferred from electricity to gas supply, which would be a significant challenge, given Ireland’s reliance on gas importation.

Following the publication of the statement on data centres, the Minister wrote to Gas Networks Ireland, GNI, stating that it would not be appropriate for Gas Networks Ireland to sign any more contracts to connect data centres to the gas network where the data centre would be powered mainly by on-site fossil fuel generation. Gas Networks Ireland has since paused new connection agreements with gas-fired data centres.

In its letter of 16 October 2023 to the joint committee, the Climate Change Advisory Council made a number of recommendations, including that the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, should direct Gas Networks Ireland not to sign any more contracts to connect data centres to the gas network where the data centre would be powered mainly by on-site fossil fuel generation under section 10A of the Gas Act to reflect the Government statement. It stated that if there is a legislative barrier, the Government should take immediate action to revise the Gas Act in line with national policy and the principles set out in the Government statement.

The Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications is working closely with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, together with the CRU, the energy regulator, to implement the July 2022 policy statement. This work would include consideration of any legislative changes which might be needed. In addition, the CRU is conducting a review of future demand of large energy users. Following the review, the CRU will publish new decisions on the rules for gas connections of large energy users. Prior to this, I understand the CRU intends to carry out a public consultation in quarter 4 of 2023 to inform its decision. I remind Senators that the CRU is independent in the exercise of its functions and, in terms of accountability, the CRU reports directly to a committee of the Oireachtas.

Senator Lynn Boylan

I thank the Minister of State for the response. I note it states that GNI has since paused new connection agreements with gas-fired data centres. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action has a letter from Gas Networks Ireland confirming that there are 13 data centres that either have been connected in the last year or are awaiting connection to the gas grid, and that GNI believes it is legally obliged to connect those data centres to the grid. Does this mean the pausing of any new contracts or will those 13 still get connected to the gas grid, which would have serious implications for our emissions targets?

I would be interested in hearing the Minister's response to GNI literally making public statements that are in direct contradiction to the programme for Government and the Minister’s own statements, which expressed the belief that data centres connecting to the gas network could meet the principles of the Government’s data centre policy through the increased use of biomethane and hydrogen, which we know is absolutely not a runner logistically. I am interested in hearing the Minister of State's response.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I will bring the Senator's comments about biomethane and hydrogen and Gas Networks Ireland back to the Minister. With regard to the legislative barriers to implementing the July 2022 statement, I understand the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications is working closely with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Commission for Regulation of Utilities to implement that policy statement. That work would include the consideration of any legislative changes which may or may not be needed. I have outlined the work that the Commission for Regulation of Utilities is conducting in its review of future demand of large energy users. I also mentioned the Government policy seeking to enable the twin transitions of digitalisation and decarbonisation of our economy and society. The statement on the role of data centres in Ireland's enterprise strategy is to ensure alignment with Ireland's renewable energy targets, security of supply, sectoral emissions and climate priorities. I will bring the Senator's comments back to the Minister and the Department.

Schools Building Projects

Senator Micheál Carrigy

This matter is in regard to an extension to Ardscoil Phádraig in Longford, where I have been on the board of management since I was elected in 2009. The school principal is Rosemary Johnston and the deputy principal is Bríd Nevin. The school is under the auspices of Longford Westmeath Education and Training Board and is a co-educational post-primary school located in north Longford. The enrolment figure was 116 in 2003 but this had risen to 253 in 2017-18 and has grown steadily over the years since to the current school-year enrolment of 344 students.

It is a school that has DEIS status, which is a fantastic asset, given all that brings to a school. Personally, it is something I would love to see being available to every school throughout the country.

The first special class in a post-primary school in Longford was opened there in 2009. A purpose-built building was added in 2018 and there are now 18 students in the three special classes in the school. I look forward to welcoming them to Leinster House in early 2024 after we receive our accreditation as an autism-friendly parliament, which is something I am really looking forward to.

The school was granted an extension in February 2021 yet here we are, in October 2023, and we do not seem to be any further on. As I said, I am a member of the board of management. Tonight is the open night in the school for children from fifth and sixth classes throughout Longford and beyond, and students from parts of Cavan and Westmeath will also attend. Indeed, my eldest son will be there tonight to help him to make the decision about where he would like to go to secondary school.

Ardscoil Phádraig is a school that provides a rich and diverse curriculum. It caters for the needs of each individual student with a vast range of educational experience that will stimulate and challenge these students, and I can stand over that statement as a member of the board of management. The school is committed to the development and care of students. A strong emphasis is placed on the holistic, personal and social development of students, which is catered for through an extensive range of extracurricular activities, including art, culture and sports, with all students actively encouraged to participate. Only in the last 12 months, a group of students from the school won a certificate in the Aberdeen Angus competition and represented Ireland abroad. There are also equestrian activities. The needs of any student are looked after and they are allowed to participate, whatever interest they may have. I can say honestly, as a member of the board of management, that it is a fantastic educational institution.

For it to progress, however, facilities are badly needed. I ask the Minister of State to give an update on when we will see progress on the ground and see these facilities, which have been sanctioned, being developed in the school.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Senator. I am making this statement on behalf of the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, in regard to the planning and building unit of the Department of Education.

It gives me an opportunity to outline what is happening with regard to Ardscoil Phádraig. I note the Senator is on the board of management of the school, as well as his comments in respect of the rich and diverse curriculum and the significant growth in the number of pupils attending the school. He stated that the number has risen to 344 from 116, which is a substantial jump.

As he may be aware, the project in question is a building project to deliver enhanced accommodation at Ardscoil Phádraig in Granard, County Longford. The Department of Education has approved the following works under the additional school accommodation, ASA, programme: five general classrooms; one music room; one multimedia room; one textiles room; and one science laboratory, including one science preparation area. As the Senator is probably aware, responsibility for delivering the project has been devolved to the Longford and Westmeath Education and Training Board, LWETB. It has appointed a design team to design the accommodation being provided and to bring the project through the tender and construction phases.

The design team has responsibility for progressing the project as expeditiously as possible through the stages of architectural planning. Projects progress from stage to stage in accordance with the project brief and the Department's design guidelines. The project for Ardscoil Phádraig in Granard is currently at stage 1 of the process, which is the early design stage. Stage 2 involves detailed design and statutory approval, followed by stage 3, which involves procurement of a contractor, and progression to stage 4, which is construction and completion. Stage 2b includes obtaining all statutory approvals, preparing a set of fully detailed tender documents and preparing an accurate pre-tender cost plan. At this early juncture in the Ardscoil Phádraig project, it is not feasible to give an indicative timeline for delivery. The Department will continue to engage directly with the ETB in providing assistance and advice to ensure delivery of this important project.

The Department has a strong track record of delivery through a variety of mechanisms, including design and build programme, employer-led design programmes, devolved programmes and modular accommodation programmes. Across all the Department’s programmes, there is a strong emphasis on the use of modern methods of construction, which is consistent with the Government’s overall direction of travel in this area. Between 2018 and 2023, nearly 1,000 school building projects were completed.

Through Project Ireland 2040, the Department is investing in excess of €5 billion over the period from 2021 to 2025 to add capacity and develop and upgrade school facilities across the country for the almost 1 million students and more than 100,000 staff who learn and work in our schools every day. I am conscious of the strong support from the Government for investment in education, including through supplementary funding in addition to national development plan allocations. There is a strong and significant pipeline of projects for delivery under the school building programme, involving 300 projects at construction in 2023, including more than 40 new school buildings. These 300 projects at construction involve a total State investment of more than €1 billion.

It is of the utmost importance that the final outcome for this project at Ardscoil Phádraig will be the correct one for both the school authority and the pupils. Equally, neither the Department nor the ETB are in any doubt about the criticality of the need for this accommodation for the wider school community.

I reiterate the design team for the school has submitted a stage 1 report to the Department. This is currently under review and should be concluded shortly. Comments will then issue from my Department’s professional and technical team to the ETB and the school authorities for progression of this additional schools accommodation project.

Senator Micheál Carrigy

I thank the Minister of State. We must give gratitude for the significant investment by the Government in schools building projects throughout the country. As she stated, the project is currently with the design team, which has submitted a stage 1 report. I ask that the report be expedited and dealt with straightaway in the context of continuing in the process. Is there a shortage of qualified staff to assess these projects? Is that why it is taking so long for them to move through the system? I ask that the project be prioritised and highlighted, given the need that exists. I acknowledge there are needs in other schools throughout the country but my priority is to make sure this school progresses. The numbers are there. The school has progressed and expanded, with a high quality of teaching, as there is in all schools in Longford. We must keep up to date, however, and put facilities in place there for children. I ask that this be pushed on further and the need for it to progress be highlighted.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Senator. I wish the school, as well as the Senator and the other members of the board of management, the best of luck with its open night tonight. It is probably beneficial that he has tabled a Commencement matter on the issue. The Department will be aware it has been raised today in the Seanad. The stage 1 report is with the Department and is being reviewed. I will bring back the Senator's request to have it expedited as soon as possible. I have set out the context of all the other building projects but, of course, this project is of particular interest to the Senator and it is not without merit. I will certainly bring that back to the Department.

Mother and Baby Homes

Senator Victor Boyhan

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. This Commencement matter relates to the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Act 2023. I was hoping the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, would be here but, as I read the newspapers every day, I am aware he clearly has many pressing issues on his plate this morning. I understand and accept he cannot be with us but I am sorry that is the case.

I am seeking a clear timeline for the delivery of payments and other prescribed benefits for those who will qualify following the signing into law of the Act by the President on 11 July 2023. The Minister of State will be aware the mother and baby homes commission of investigation was chaired by Ms Yvonne Murphy. It was established in 2015 and reported in 2021, six years later. Some 59,000 mothers and 57,000 babies and children in the homes were reported on by the commission of investigation. Not all homes and institutions were included and neither were boarded-out children. The report's summary states: "The vast majority of children in the institutions were ‘illegitimate’ and, because of this, suffered discrimination for most of their lives." Unfortunately, that part of their journey has not yet come to a satisfactory conclusion as they await the opening of the mother and baby homes payment scheme and the full assessment of their applications.

The Act was passed through both Houses prior to the summer recess and prioritised for signing by the President. It was signed into law by him in mid-July having spent a year being debated by both Houses of the Oireachtas. I, along with many others, spent many hours scrutinising many provisions of the Bill during its passage. I acknowledge the Minister, who gave significant time and engagement to Members of both Houses. That was constructive and it is important to acknowledge it, as well as the work and commitment of his staff in ironing out many queries and difficulties as the legislation passed through the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Those who would benefit from the payment scheme and enhanced medical card are not getting any younger. Sadly, some of them have passed away, including in recent months. I acknowledge that the Minister's quarterly communication to survivors is ongoing. That is an important strand of communication and should continue, as his intention. I note a publication dated 9 October and available yesterday on gov.ie stated the scheme will take several more months to be established. That is somewhat disappointing but those are the facts as presented and posted to gov.ie on 9 October. I ask the Minister to provide a timeline for when survivors can expect the payments and benefits they have been awaiting for so long. I would like to be able to give those answers to survivors who continue to correspond with me and my Seanad office. I visited the relevant section of gov.ie last night. The most recent post was on 9 October. In reply to the question, "Is the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme open for applications?", it states:

The Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme is not yet open for applications.

[...]

Work is underway within the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to get the Scheme open for applications as soon as possible.

There is a sense of urgency to this. The Minister impressed upon us the importance of getting the legislation through the Houses. He insisted that he wanted to get it signed by the President and enacted. We should have some sort of indication of a timeline for when this process will be able to do what it is meant to do, namely, to provide a small measure of redress for people who grew up in these State institutions.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

As the Senator mentioned, I am making this statement on behalf of the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman. I thank the Senator for raising the issue today, and I am happy to provide an update on the progress with regard to the delivery of this scheme to survivors and former residents.

As colleagues will be aware, the mother and baby institutions payment scheme will provide financial payments and health supports to eligible people in recognition of the circumstances they experienced in a mother and baby or county home institution. At an anticipated cost of €800 million, it is expected that 34,000 people will be eligible for financial payments under the scheme and 19,000 eligible for health supports. As such, it will be the largest scheme of its kind in the history of the State.

The scheme is also the centrepiece of the Government’s Action Plan for Survivors and Former Residents of Mother and Baby and County Home Institutions. The scheme, as the Senator mentioned, is underpinned by legislation, with the President signing the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Act into law in July of this year. This Act allows for the establishment of an executive office in the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to administer the scheme and the appointment of the chief deciding officer to head up that office. It also allows for the making of the necessary regulations which must be in place prior to the scheme opening and provides a lawful basis for access to information and records, which are essential for the processing of applications.

The Government, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman and I are acutely aware of the sense of urgency, to which the Senator alluded, surrounding the opening of the scheme. Intensive work is under way to establish the infrastructure needed to deliver the scheme and I will provide some detail on that now. I understand a number of months will be needed to conclude this work and open the scheme for applications.

As per the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Act 2023, the scheme will be administered by an executive office established within the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Following careful consideration of a number of important factors, including the need to open the scheme as soon as possible and the ability to be responsive and scale up and down to meet scheme demand, a blended operating model is being developed. This will provide for the chief deciding officer, appointed under the Act, to be supported by a core executive office based in the Department and also by an experienced third party. To this end, the Department is currently concluding a tendering process with a preferred bidder that has been identified following a procurement process.

All staff in the executive office, as well as the third party support team, will operate under the direction and supervision of the chief deciding officer and a comprehensive training programme for all staff involved in the scheme is being developed.

I understand that work is also under way on the development of an online application system. The Department recently made a call to survivors and former residents who may be interested in being part of a stakeholder reference group to provide feedback on the draft application materials for the payment scheme and I understand a very positive response was received.

An information awareness campaign will take place in Ireland and abroad in advance of the scheme opening. Once the scheme is open, applicants will be supported throughout the process with information and advice if they need it.

I stress that the scheme has been designed to be straightforward and non-adversarial. It will not require applicants to bring forward evidence of abuse or harm. In relation to an applicant's time in an institution, all an applicant to the scheme will need to tell the executive office is the name of the institution or institutions the applicant spent time in and the dates the applicant was there or approximate dates, if known. The executive office will then be able to undertake searches of institutional records.

We are conscious that despite this, some survivors may still find it difficult to engage with the scheme. I would like to take this opportunity to remind all that the Government's action plan response includes the provision of counselling support, through the national counselling service in the HSE, free of charge, to all survivors and former residents.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I thank the Minister of State for setting out matters comprehensively there. It is somewhat disappointing that it appears that we may not have a scheme up and running and paying out as envisaged this year. The Minister committed to having it in place and fully functioning in 2023. I accept this is complex, but it should not be. The scheme was designed not to be complex in itself and, as the Minister of State said, not adversarial.

I have some issues of concern with the Minister of State's response. First, I note the scheme will be delayed, but it is coming. People have waited a long time. It is only a matter of months and I suppose we have to take some encouragement from that.

Second, I would have a concern about online applications. Many of the people who grew up in these institutions left formal education between the ages of 12 and 14, not by their own choice. They have numeracy and literacy issues. More importantly, they have their own pride and their dignity in wishing their business to remain confidential. They may not wish to avail of or seek a third party to assist them in filling an online form. I would have an issue with that. The Minister of State might bring that back as a sensitive concern.

Finally, I would ask that the Minister would keep us, the Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas who passed this legislation, briefed. Certainly, I would like to think for the next three months that we would have a monthly update as to progress on the scheme we, as legislators, passed into law and expect the Executive to fully implement.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I note what the Senator says around the online application system. I mentioned that there is a stakeholder reference group there where members can provide feedback on draft applications.

In terms of the scheme being advanced as soon as possible, I also outlined, from the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, some of the issues that need to be looked at and some of the measures in terms of making sure that there is an information awareness campaign and such like prior to the scheme being open. I appreciate it also needs to be expedited and I will bring that back to the Department as well.

I will also bring back the Senator's request around being informed on a monthly or a three-monthly basis on the matter.

Fire Service

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

I very much welcome the specific reference within the budget around continued increased investment on the capital side within the fire services. In County Wexford, we have a new fire station in New Ross and there are extensive plans to develop the fire station at Gorey but my primary concern is obviously around those who will staff those fire stations, the importance of the retained fire service and the valuable work it does in all communities.

The Minister of State will be aware, after industrial action, that in August, following discussions at the Workplace Relations Commission, agreement was reached between SIPTU and those representing the retained firefighters and the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, around a path forward. The concern has been, around some of the recommendations there, that we have not yet seen them implemented. What is key for the retained firefighters is to be able to give them a timeline for what was recommended there to be agreed.

For instance, there was agreement around an increase in the minimum wages to be paid to the retained firefighters - the base wage. Improvements were to be made to increments. There was to be the filling of promotional posts. There was to be more flexibility. What was key, because one of the big issues for retained firefighters is around retention and recruitment, was that there would be an additional 400 firefighters recruited, increasing the existing cohort from 2,000 to 2,400 and, following on from that, that retained firefighters would form part of the public sector pay talks. The latter is something I strongly support, and I know the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, also supports this. In addition, we were to see, as part of that recruitment, a minimum of 12 firefighters per station. This is for the safety of the firefighters to make sure that there is a basic service that will be provided.

All of these are welcome, and they were approved in a ballot by the retained firefighters in August. However, it is key that if we are to look at that strategy for retention and recruitment, we see a timeline in place for their implementation. I would certainly like to see guarantees. Before local authorities start on a big recruitment drive for those additional posts, there has to be a need. There has to be certainty for those who will pursue a career as a retained firefighter, which is a rewarding career but a difficult one. We need to see a timeline in place as to when those measures that were recommended would follow suit. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has said that he is deeply committed to implementing what was said, but it will be difficult for local authorities if we do not have a clear timeline around the measures that were agreed being brought forward.

I would hope that the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, can provide us with an update on this today and stress the urgency back to the Department, for retention and recruitment, that we address these challenges.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I am bringing this statement on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

Our firefighters, as the Senator says, do incredibly valuable work on a daily basis.

The retained fire service is an elite front-line service staffed by dedicated people who serve their communities around the clock. There is no doubt that the efforts of retained firefighters and those of their full-time colleagues first and foremost save lives, prevent damage to residential and commercial property, protect critical infrastructure and safeguard the environment. The work of these brave men and women can be physically challenging and psychologically demanding. We need only look to the recent flooding events in Munster and Leinster, where fire crews worked tirelessly to protect homes and evacuate people from properties inundated with floodwaters, for the evidence of their professionalism.

In May 2021, the Minister tasked the national directorate for fire and emergency management, NDFEM, with undertaking a review of recruitment and retention in the retained fire service. The Senator has alluded to that being a big issue. This review report, which was published by the Minister in December 2022, made 13 recommendations aimed at improving recruitment, retention and service delivery within the retained fire service. As the Senator said, the Minister is committed to implementing those recommendations.

The Department moved to commence implementation of the report through an independently chaired process that looked first at the issue of terms and conditions. Unfortunately, that process ultimately did not lead to an agreement. Following a period of industrial action in the retained service, both parties to the dispute, namely, the retained firefighters and the LGMA acting on behalf of the local authority employers, agreed a resolution to the industrial unrest, which the Senator alluded to, through a mediation process at the WRC. That agreement built upon the strong foundation of an earlier Labour Court recommendation and immediately addressed the priority areas of additional structured time off and the rebalancing of remuneration recommended by the retained review report.

The new service model agreed will see all fire stations brought to a minimum of 12 firefighters per station, which I think the Senator mentioned, with six firefighters available to respond on a rotational week on-week off basis. Within this provision, retained firefighters will have the flexibility to swap days with colleagues and may continue to attend calls when rostered off, if they so wish. An estimated 400 personnel will be recruited by local authorities to establish this new model, which will also provide for approximately 50 additional promotional posts. Week on-week off rosters will commence as soon as the crewing levels are sufficient to allow for it and recruitment will be a priority in this regard.

On remuneration, the WRC proposal includes measures to fix elements of pay that were previously activity-based, relating to drill payments, community fire safety and a minimum fixed payment for attendance at incidents. This will result in a starting income in excess of €19,000 for newly recruited retained firefighters and a new, shorter, four-point pay scale will allow retained firefighters to reach the top of their scale much quicker. It is envisaged all local authorities will now transition to fortnightly guaranteed fixed payments to be made up of weekly drill hours paid at the standard first hour of incident attendance rate; 40 hours of community fire safety work by the station, such as home fire safety visits and pre-incident planning; each fire station will be allocated an additional bank of 40 hours per firefighter that can be undertaken at his or her discretion; a minimum attendance payment equivalent to 75 hours at the standard rate and payments for attendance at incidents in excess of 75 hours will be made in accordance with existing arrangements; and an increase to the retainer fee as set out in the Labour Court recommendation. In addition, the premium rate hours for incident call-outs has been broadened to start at 8 p.m. and finish at 8 a.m., Monday to Friday.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I thank the Minister of State. I welcome and strongly support the measures proposed, which the Minister of State will certainly find retained firefighters want to see implemented. What is critical is a timeframe for doing so because it is going to be very difficult to recruit 400 firefighters without a very clear timeframe for introducing all the agreed measures. It is about providing certainty for firefighters and those considering a career in this area. It is especially important for those seeking mortgages or loans to allow them to state they have a particular guaranteed income. The Minister of State will appreciate how difficult it can be to seek approval from a financial institution it is based on a person's guaranteed income. It is critical we have a very clear timeframe for when these measures will be implemented.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I appreciate the Senator's comments on a timeline. He mentioned earlier that the local authorities should be aware of this. The fact the Minister has made a commitment to implement the recommendations gives certainty and clarity to firefighters in the context of mortgages and loans. I will bring the Senator's comments to the Department and Minister and ensure we try to expedite this matter as much as possible.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 11.15 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.33 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 11.15 a.m. and resumed at 11.33 a.m.