I welcome the Minister, Deputy Harris. It is great to have the line Minister in the House. I thank him for making time to be here this morning for this Commencement matter.
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Apprenticeship Programmes
County Roscommon has no provision for an apprenticeship sector. In the space of three years, the Minister's new Department, the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, has led on significant achievements. We can see landmark changes, with a new funding agency for research and innovation and the Minister's focus on apprenticeships. At a recent meeting of the education committee, an official referred to 26,000 people doing apprenticeships here in Ireland. We need to see access to apprenticeship programmes for people in towns and villages across Ireland. School leavers or career changers could take up to any of 70 courses that are currently on offer, including in auctioneering, biomedicine and farm management, as well as in traditional crafts and trades. There is such demand. Anyone you speak to will say he or she cannot find tradespeople, including carpenters and electricians. We have really long waiting times in Roscommon for retrofitting and the warmer homes scheme.
Students here can do courses at National Framework of Qualifications levels 5 or 6 and proceed to degree or postgraduate levels, bringing employment and jobs to local areas. Galway and Roscommon Education and Training Board, GRETB, has submitted a proposal to purchase a two-and-a-half-acre site in the heart of Roscommon town. It has submitted this to SOLAS, the national agency managing further education and training. It is a fantastic site in the middle of the town, close to the main street and with bus and train access. There is potential for four to five workshops. This is an incredible opportunity to deliver world-class apprenticeship training centres in County Roscommon. It takes in a large catchment area, including surrounding counties. The centre could link with businesses and enterprises in the local area, increasing the potential of Roscommon as a location for enterprise and creating local employment. It could link with the universities, including the Technological University of the Shannon, Athlone. There is a gap in apprenticeships in County Roscommon. We need to see investment in this region. I look forward to working with the Minister to progress this project.
I want to continue on where Senator Dolan has left off in saying this is really important for County Roscommon. Senator Dolan has adequately outlined the situation regarding the site – a brilliant site in the heart of Roscommon town. We want this in our county; we want it to be achieved. We were asked by GRETB to come together on this and bring it forward. In fairness to the Minister, he has led the way on this with the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins. The Government is very strong on apprenticeships, putting in place what many of us have called for down through the years. It is now happening, and I admire and thank the Minister for that. I heard him make the true statement recently that college and university may not be for everybody. I meet an increasing number of students who say they are not going to university. I automatically ask people what college or university they are in but they say they are not in one and are doing an apprenticeship. There are people in the county doing apprenticeships but it would be fantastic if we could get the proposed venture into the heart of Roscommon town.
I have a message from the people of Roscommon town and the county. They will totally embrace and support this proposal. They will work for it and help in any way they can, as Senator Dolan will know. Senator Dolan said we have an adequate site. We have a Minister who is enthusiastic, and the Minister of State is also enthusiastic. We can make this happen. We are very happy to come here on behalf of GRETB, make our case and speak up for our own area. I assure the Minister that there will be many students to take up the offer if the education centre is put in Roscommon town. It would be very good for the local economy but, more important, it would be good for students and our workforce.
I thank both Senators for their brevity. It is hard to share four minutes but they have done so excellently. The Minister is very welcome. He has four minutes.
I am delighted to be here to take this important matter raised by Senators Dolan and Murphy. I thank them for tabling it and for working together on what is a really important issue.
The Government's ambition for apprenticeships and further education and training is well known and recognised. Only today we have seen figures that show an 8% increase in the number of apprentices in Ireland this year by comparison with last year. We are about a year ahead of our target in getting 10,000 new apprentices registered each year by 2025. We need to do this. We published a national skills bulletin today that shows where there are acute shortages. In one way, this is a success of full employment, but when there is full employment it is so important to start directing people into training and education to develop skills where needed, and supporting them in doing so. We can talk until the cows come home in this Chamber or the other about building houses but we are not going to build them if we do not meet the need for skills. Therefore, we need people to acquire the skills and take up the apprenticeships, including in respect of green skills and the climate agenda. Having more apprentices is no longer just a nice-to-do thing from a policy point of view; it is crucial and fundamental in meeting the skills needs of our country and providing pathways and different ways of learning, because we do not all learn in the same way. Tertiary education needs to be flexible and agile in this regard.
Success in building a strong and effective national apprenticeship system and ensuring our further education and training sector realises its full potential is essential if we are to deliver on key national strategies. I believe the far-reaching decision to establish my Department three years ago with a strong mandate to focus, in particular, on apprenticeships, further education and training and integrated tertiary policy was a key milestone in recognising their crucial role. Apprenticeships and further education and training are two signature examples of that approach being adopted and delivered now in practice through our action plan on apprenticeships, through setting public sector targets for apprentices, and providing financial assistance to help businesses, particularly small- and medium-sized businesses, to take on an apprentice. One strong conclusion that draws from the three years I have had the privilege of being Minister is that the ground has now shifted significantly in terms of the very positive perception and positioning of apprenticeships and further education and training among students, learners, their families, employers and in our wider communities. That we are having this conversation in the Seanad today, and the fact those in Roscommon are asking why they do not have an apprenticeship centre in the town and, which is very heartening, that they are saying they would like one too because they have these skills needs as well and do not want to be left out or left behind, reinforces my conviction that we are on the right path and doing the right things.
As Members know, the Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board training centre in Galway has been training apprentices since it opened as long ago as 1969. It has eight workshops and, to meet demand, the centre has a continuous year-round intake for electrical apprentices. Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board will add a further nine electrical workshops over the next six to nine months as it fits out that adjacent building. The first four of these will have apprentices in place at the start of 2024. Remaining workshops will come on stream in the following four months. In regard to a Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board training centre for County Roscommon, I can inform the Senators that the ETB has submitted a business case to SOLAS in respect of the purchase of a property in County Roscommon for the purpose of providing new apprenticeship capacity. Added to this, there is also the added benefit that it can consolidate existing further education and training provision from other parts of County Roscommon. SOLAS is now appraising the submission against a number of requirements, including our national apprenticeship requirements, climate action-focused planning and the public spending code. SOLAS has now met with Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board to discuss the proposal in further detail. When this process has been fully completed, it will be submitted to my Department with a recommendation from SOLAS. My Department will then review it.
I will clearly say that I believe this proposal has real merit. I am excited about this proposal. We need more construction workers. More construction workers mean more houses. We need more apprentices. We also need to make apprenticeships easier to take up. That means they have to be local and accessible. It needs to play its full role in terms of regional and rural development. In my view, this proposal ticks all those boxes. We do not need any area of the country to be without apprenticeship provision. I have no intention of leaving County Roscommon behind. I want to work with the Senators to fill this gap. I look forward to visiting County Roscommon to discuss this further.
I thank the Minister. This is really positive progress. It is important to see this business case completed. Of course the Minister is welcome, along with officials from SOLAS, to come to Roscommon town to meet with Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board and local representatives, who will fight this case. The Minister must not forget that County Roscommon is within the just transition area. We have seen huge impact around just transition. We have seen the loss of jobs in Lanesborough and Shannonbridge. We need to see this centre and jobs in County Roscommon. We need the Minister's support for this to move forward.
I am very enthused by the Minister's enthusiasm for this project but I mention, and I am sure Senator Dolan would as well, the efforts of the CEO of Galway-Roscommon Education and Training Board, David Leahy, and the members, including the elected members who are really enthusiastic about this. It is great to hear the Minister saying this is what is needed in County Roscommon. Obviously we have to wait for certain outcomes but the response he has given us is positive and I welcome that.
I thank Senators Dolan and Murphy. SOLAS has met the ETB and is working closely with it. SOLAS will then send a recommendation to my Department. I am saying clearly here on the floor Seanad Éireann that I am positively disposed towards this, as is my Department. I take the point Senator Dolan makes about the just transition area. That further adds to the compelling case of this project. I join Senator Murphy in acknowledging the leadership of David Leahy. I know he was in Leinster House recently. I am sorry I missed him but I want to praise the ETB for its leadership. We are talking about the Roscommon project today, and I am happy to do so, but as I said in my earlier answer, it is also expanding its provision in Galway. This is an ETB that is up for the challenge and is playing its part in helping Ireland to meet its national objectives. If we are serious about apprenticeships, and I am deadly serious, we need to make it as easy as possible for apprentices to take them up and as easy as possible for businesses to get involved. That means having local provision so that people do not have to travel long distances and employers can engage directly. I look forward to working with Senators Dolan and Murphy on this.
The next Commencement matter is in the name of Senator Rebecca Moynihan, who is not here, so as the same Minister of State is responding, unless Senator Moynihan makes a last-minute arrival, Senator Clifford-Lee is next. I welcome the Minister of State. Senator Clifford-Lee has four minutes.
Court Accommodation
The Minister of State is very welcome. I realise this is not his Department so I appreciate his taking the time to come and answer this on behalf of the Minister for Justice. My Commencement concerns the long-awaited family law court complex at Hammond Lane. We are long past needing a new family law court complex for Dublin. Dolphin House and Phoenix House are not fit for purpose. The court users are vulnerable people, including people who have suffered domestic violence and children who are entering the State's care and they are being dealt with in completely inadequate facilities. Not only is it inadequate for the court users, it is inadequate for the practitioners and for the judges. It is a very unsafe working environment. We have seen unfortunately, a number of instances in these courts down through the years. The State purchased the site at Hammond Lane in the late 1990s and we are still waiting for the family law court complex there. It was put into the programme for Government that it would be delivered within the lifetime of the Government. I was happy to see that because, since my election to the Seanad, I have been advocating for this, because I was a family law practitioner prior to entering politics and worked in that area every day.
Unfortunately, in August this year, The Irish Times reported that construction was not due to start until 2026 at the earliest and no opening date was set. This was completely baffling because, in 2021, the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, said it would be completed by 2026 at the latest. In June 2022, a preliminary business case was approved by the Government with the project to be delivered as part of a public-private partnership bundled to include Garda stations in Clonmel and Macroom. That was a welcome step forward. I put down a Commencement matter in October 2022, just over a year ago, and the Minister, Deputy McEntee told me the project was proceeding as expected with no delays envisaged. That was good news. However, in May 2023, it was announced that Clonmel and Macroom Garda stations would be decoupled from the Hammond Lane project and would proceed. Nothing was said about the progress of the Hammond Lane site. Clearly, problems were identified at this point.
What happened between my Commencement in October 2022 and May 2023 that dramatically altered the timeline? It was a short period of time. Something dramatic happened. We still do not know. Why did the Minister not see fit to give any explanation to the Government, the Dáil or the Seanad in May 2023 to explain why this decoupling was happening? We received confirmation or a quasi-confirmation in August 2023 that the Hammond Lane project would be dramatically set back. That news was sneaked out when these Houses were in recess. There was an unofficial report in The Irish Times with no direct quotes from the Minister. We still have no information on it. There has just been radio silence, with not a dicky bird from the Minister, about this. There can be every strategy under the sun to tackle the really important issues of gender-based violence, domestic violence, children in the care of the State, maintenance, access, custody and guardianship. We can say we are going to do everything on these, but if the important infrastructure is not delivered for the people of Dublin, strategies mean nothing. They are pointless statements. I am genuinely upset and frustrated with the Minister for Justice on this because there has been no explanation. I often think that because these proceedings are in camera, nobody really knows what goes on. They do not care what goes on. We are talking about extremely vulnerable families here. I hope the Minister of State can give me some insight as to what happened to the timelines.
Hopefully, the people of Dublin will get some answer as to why this important piece of infrastructure has once again been tossed to the side.
I thank the Senator for raising this question. I am here on behalf of the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, who regrets that she cannot be present due to another commitment. I know she wants to provide some clarity on these issues.
Construction of a purpose-built family law court complex at Hammond Lane is a key project in the national development plan, NDP. The Hammond Lane complex will be built with the specific needs of family law users in mind and will provide a modern facility where family law cases can be held in a dignified, secure and non-threatening environment with a range of support services at hand. It will replace the present inadequate and fragmented facilities for family law in central Dublin at Dolphin House, Chancery Street, Phoenix House and in the Four Courts.
A preliminary business case, developed in compliance with the requirements of the public spending code, was approved in principle in June 2022. The original intention was that Hammond Lane would be delivered as part of a bundle of public private partnership, PPP, projects, including the two Garda stations the Senator mentioned. However, it was decided earlier this year that the two Garda projects would be decoupled from the PPP projects and would proceed by traditional direct Exchequer funding. Accordingly, Hammond Lane is now proceeding as a stand-alone PPP project with appropriate governance arrangements having been revised in that context.
Detailed plans and layouts for the Hammond Lane building have been prepared by the OPW. They provide for a five-storey over-basement building, comprising 19 courtrooms, consultation rooms or spaces, staff and judicial accommodation, a variety of public waiting areas, space for mediation and domestic violence support services, accommodation for legal practitioners and custody facilities. The Courts Service undertook an extensive consultation exercise with stakeholders during the fourth quarter of 2022, during which the plans were very positively received.
The submission of the Part 9 planning application is the immediate priority for the Hammond Lane project, work on which is being undertaken on behalf of the Courts Service by the OPW and which will be completed in advance of the tendering process. It is envisaged that an application for planning permission will be lodged in the coming weeks. In parallel to the Part 9 planning process, a procurement process for legal and technical advisors is under way. The procurement and construction stages of the project will be undertaken and managed by the National Development Finance Agency, NDFA, and, in line with Government PPP procedures, it is anticipated that this key project will be delivered in the latter half of the current NDP.
The Minister for Justice is currently leading an ambitious programme of family justice reform. In November of last year she published the first family justice strategy. While foundational in nature, it recognises that much needs to be done to deliver a modern effective system. The strategy sets out a vision for a co-ordinated, consistent and user-focused family justice system, which helps children and families obtain earlier, appropriate resolutions in a simpler, fairer and more effective way. We intend to work towards this through the implementation of over 50 actions across nine goals, with timescales up to the end of 2025 and progress updates published annually.
I am left feeling a bit cold after that answer, to be honest. It is not the Minister of State's fault - I know it is not his Department - but there was absolutely nothing in that that we did not know. I want to know why the projects were decoupled. When was that decision made? We all know the two Garda stations were decoupled. Why was that done? Why did the Minister say in October 2022 that the projects were proceeding as normal and then a couple of months later, they were decoupled because there was a big issue going on with the Hammond Lane project? I find it hard to believe that the Department did not have sight of the issue in question in October 2022. Then this was announced in August of this year. Why did the Minister not see fit to make any public statement on it? Are the users of the family law courts that unimportant to the Minister?
When will the complex be opened? The Minister of State said it would be in the latter half of the NDP. When is that exactly? We do not know that. He spoke about various strategies being user focused. As already stated, you can have every strategy under the sun but if the court complex is so bad that users do not go ahead with their applications because they cannot actually face going down to that court due to the state the building, it does not matter.
I just want to make a very brief point. The local community in the north inner city of Dublin is one of the most deprived communities in Ireland and they have been living with this huge hole in the ground. Can the Minister of State imagine what that is like for the children growing up in the flats around the area, namely, Greek Street flats or one of the other flat complexes? They are going to school every day and seeing this official neglect, this massive hole in the ground with dirt and rubbish building up in it. For their whole lives, that is all they have seen with this State not proceeding with anything on that site. What does that tell the people of the local community in the north inner city?
The Senator's first question was why the projects were decoupled earlier this year. I do not know the answer to that. I will ask the Minister to get the Senator an answer. I do not have specific information on that. The Senator generally felt that there was no information provided. Maybe she was already aware that the OPW is about to make its planning application in the coming weeks under Part 9, which is significant, and that it has already started the procurement process for its legal and technical services. That is already under way. The Senator asked when it is going to be open and she asked about the phrase "the second half of the NDP". The NDP runs for the decade from 2021 to 2030 so the second half is after 2025. Between 2025 and 2030 is the second half.
That is very broad.
It is broad.
The second half is five years.
Senator, let the Minister of State respond.
The second half of a decade is five years. That is the information I have available. I am happy to revert to the Minister if the Senator wants to ask further questions or look for further clarifications from her. That is the information I have.
Family Reunification
I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I want to be as quick as I can. I am asking that the Department and the Minister for Justice adopt an urgent, pragmatic, family centred approach to visa applications to reunite the relatives of Irish families, particularly in the context of the increase in global conflict. We have an increasing global diaspora of Irish citizens and so this is going to be a more frequently occurring situation. We saw desperate attempts to get Irish citizens out of Kabul and desperate attempts to get Irish citizens out of Sudan and Khartoum when that country went into free fall. Obviously, we have 40 Irish citizens in the Gaza Strip. We are almost powerless to get them out against the backdrop of the appalling war crimes that are being perpetrated by both sides in that conflict. Emily Hand is being kept as a hostage by Hamas. We are pleading for the lives of Irish citizens.
I wish to raise the case of the Snunu family. This is an extended Irish family who live in Carlow and who have a number of businesses there. They fled persecution in Syria during the civil war there. They got to Turkey and made their way, as so many hundreds of thousands of refugees do, by boat, in little rubber dinghies, and got to Lesbos. They left their sister, Nouralhuda, behind because she did not want to die in the boat with them. They left her behind so one member of the family might live. The family managed to get Irish citizenship. In fact the father of the family, the patriarch, told me that in the refugee camp in Lesbos they were given a choice of different nationalities and they chose Ireland. I asked him why and he said it was because he knew he would get justice and love in this country. His nickname thereafter amongst the Syrians in the refugee camp in Lesbos was Paddy.
That family were in my office last week. After the earthquakes in Türkiye, Nouralhuda, her husband and their three small children - Ahmet, who is seven, Mohamed, who is five and little Rital, who is two - were effectively trafficked to Kuala Lumpur and they are now being held in a detention centre in Kuala Lumpur International Airport. They are crammed into a room and they have separated boys and girls. They are crammed into a room with 30 or 40 people. There is a hole in the ground for them to toilet in. They have no shoes. They have no stimulation. Malaysian authorities say they are going to deport the sister and her three children back to Damascus. If they are deported to Damascus, they will be executed. They will be tortured. The women and children will be raped and they will be executed. That is what is going to happen. That is what is on the line. The only reason we have managed to save their lives is because my assistant is Malaysian-Irish and speaks fluent Malay.
When their plight was brought to our attention, my assistant, who is probably watching this, was able to communicate in Malay with the authorities in Malaysia to get a stay on their execution, which is effectively what it would be if they were deported to Damascus. The Malaysian authorities have told us, and I quote from their letter, that the Snunu family have been applying for a visa application to reunite Nouralhuda and her children with the family. The Department of Justice has rejected their application on the basis of misspellings in the passports and a discrepancy with the date of birth. This is a family that crossed the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy. These are people who have been trafficked. Of course there will be discrepancies in their paperwork. For these tiny, bureaucratic - I do not even have the language to describe it - and capricious reasons, they are rejecting them. They have an appeal in at the moment and the Malaysians tell me:
We reiterate that the family has overstayed in Malaysia and we are yet to deport them. Our next course of action will depend on the result of the visa application from the Department of Justice, Ireland.
They are saying that if this appeal is not dealt with in a timely manner, they will be killed. In the context of us trying to save life in the world and of Ireland being a beacon of hope, can we reunite this family with their Irish family? I urge the Department of Justice to deal with this in a pragmatic, humane and generous manner.
Before the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, responds, I would like to welcome to the Gallery our special guests from the White House, Matthew McFarland and Kelsey Quackenbush. Fáilte romhaibh; you are very welcome. The Minister of State has four minutes to respond.
I welcome our guests. I thank the Senator for making his case. I am here on behalf of the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, who unfortunately has another commitment and cannot be here. At the outset, I want to assure the Senator that the Minister and her Department are acutely aware of the grave humanitarian crisis in Gaza and are working with colleagues in the Department of Foreign Affairs to ensure a co-ordinated national response to this volatile and evolving situation. This includes their work to evacuate Irish citizens and their families who may require visa assistance. The Minister and her Department officials understand that this is also a difficult situation for our Palestinian community and their loved ones. They would like to assure the Senator that all current immigration avenues remain open for new applications to the Department, including visa and family reunification applications, which will be processed speedily.
In relation to the Department’s general approach to visa applications to reunite relatives of Irish families, there are several different routes available. The International Protection Act 2015 provides that a person who has a current declaration as a UN Convention refugee or who is a current beneficiary of subsidiary protection may make an application for family reunification. Under the 2015 Act, a person may apply for their immediate family members, spouse, partner and children under 18 to enter and reside in the State or to remain and reside in the State where they are already resident on the date of the application.
Other avenues also exist for the admission of more extended family members under the provisions of the Department’s policy document on non-EEA family reunification, which can be found on the Department’s website, irishimmigration.ie. This allows beneficiaries of international protection who fall outside of the terms of the 2015 Act and other non-EEA immigrants residing lawfully in Ireland to make an application to have their family members join them here. A review of the non-EEA family reunification policy is under way. The review, which is at an advanced stage, is examining a wide range of matters relating to family reunification. The policy document was last reviewed in 2016 and sets out the criteria and specific requirements for any person considering making an application to be joined by family members in the State through normal established legal pathways. The review will be informed by considerations of the relevant Government Departments.
I spoke to a Department official about the specific case that Senator Clonan has raised and the family he has mentioned. I understand the Department is fully apprised of it, they are working on it, there is no delay with it and they understand the urgency. It is right that Senator Clonan was able to make his case today very clearly for them. There are also similar incidents in Gaza at the moment. There are hostages and there are people who are eligible for Irish citizenship but do not have it at the moment. We cannot be expected to go through the normal timelines that it takes for a foreign birth registration, etc., in such a critical moment. The Department is working to provide documentation for those people. They are working on their diplomatic efforts with the various Governments involved to extract Irish citizens safely from these war zones. I want to tell the Senator that on the specific case he mentioned and detailed so passionately and clearly, the Department assures me that it is working at full speed, with all its efforts, and it understands the context.
I appreciate the Minister of State giving me that response. I am heartened to hear he has spoken to officials in the Department. It is 30°C in Kuala Lumpur today, there is 83% humidity and those children are barefoot in a mosquito-infested cell. The Malaysian authorities have told me they are imminent in their desire to deport them to Damascus. We do not need an aircraft. We do not need to borrow an aircraft from another State to save these family members of an Irish family. All we need is a bit of ink on a piece of paper and we can save their lives.
I implore the Minister of State to speak with the Minister, Deputy McEntee, who I know is aware of this case, because she very generously spoke to me about it last month. I know she is committed to helping this family. However, the letter we got from the Malaysian authorities is very clear. They are just at the point of deporting them. I therefore plead, consistent with the piece that Kitty Holland highlighted in The Irish Times this week, with the State to help this family. It is a matter of urgency. They are in extremis. All it needs is a stroke of the pen and the Malaysians will deport them to their family in Dublin, as opposed to deporting them to Damascus, where they would face certain death.
I thank the Senator. I will revert with his comments to the official, who may be watching right now. If he has not heard this, I will revert to him with the Senator’s comments about the urgency of this particular case.
The Minister recognises the importance of international protection recipients and residents in Ireland from outside the EEA having their family members reunited with them. To this end, the Department engages where necessary with applicants for family reunification to ensure they have every opportunity to meet the requirements that are in place. As has already been outlined, alternative avenues for family reunification are available under the Department’s policy document on non-EEA family reunification, which is currently under review. The guidelines for the processing of long-stay family applications are set out in the policy document and there is information to assist people in making applications on the Department of Justice website.
On my behalf, and on behalf of the Minister, Deputy McEntee, I want to again express sympathy for what must be a very difficult situation for our Palestinian community and for their loved ones. I reiterate that the Department is open for all new visa and family reunification applications. I want to assure the Senator that the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the Department’s officials are committed to taking a pragmatic and sympathetic approach when it comes to visas to reunite family members of Irish families.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 11.08 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.32 a.m.
Sitting suspended at 11.08 a.m. and resumed at 11.32 a.m.