The Order of Business is No. 2, Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023 – Second Stage, to be taken at 3.15 p.m. and to conclude at 5.30 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and time may be shared, all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and time may be shared, and the Minister to be given no fewer than ten minutes to reply to the debate; No. 3, Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Bill 2023 – Committee Stage to be taken at 5.30 p.m.; and No. 123, motion 7, motion regarding restoration of the Oireachtas Library and Reading Room, to be taken at 6.45 p.m. or on conclusion of No. 3, whichever is the later, and, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, to conclude after one hour, with the time allocated to the contribution of the proposer and all Senators not to exceed eight minutes - time can be shared and the proposer to be given no less than four minutes to reply to the debate.
An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business
I, too, want to be associated with the remarks about the late Tras Honan, somebody whom I knew well. Long before I was elected to this House, I got to know her and I served with her on a number of committees. She was a forthright and brilliant woman, a wonderful character. She had a very insightful mind. There will be an opportunity, I am sure, here for us to express sympathies in greater detail when her family are present.
I join with others in expressing revulsion at the horrific knife attack that saw three children and their teacher stabbed last Thursday. Of course, our thoughts and prayers are with those victims and their families for the trauma they have suffered.
I condemn the action by those who, for their own warped ideology, used social media to whip up a rioting mob of criminals, thugs and petty thieves who wreaked havoc on Thursday evening on this city. Tens of millions of euro of damage was done to public and private property with the looting of shops, burning of buses, cars and Luases. It was really an appalling thing to do. It has damaged the image of Dublin and Ireland abroad.
As that revulsion and anger dissipates, it is our responsibility as politicians to look back analytically to establish the facts as to how control was lost last Thursday evening and why that control was lost. I speak to gardaí all the time in my role as a public representative and I spoke to gardaí at the weekend. Quite frankly, many gardaí are afraid to use their judgment call on the use of force. That is, in my view, deeply disturbing. They are afraid to use their discretion. They are afraid that it will come back to haunt them at a later stage. They do not believe that the Garda Commissioner has their back in those circumstances. For example, in 2020, there was a case in the mid-west which started as, we understand, a major internal investigation into allegation of corruption. It is now largely and principally whittled down to allegations of discretion or the misuse of discretion in relation to fixed penalty notices. Four gardaí and another one who has retired are before the courts. Five gardaí are suspended. No specific allegations have been made to them in relation to what wrongdoing they are suspended for. No charges have been brought. No disciplinary actions have been taken. In the views of some, this response is not proportionate to the allegations that are made and could have been dealt with by disciplinary procedures. It has dragged on for three years. This has had a traumatic effect on the lives of those gardaí but, over and above that, it has had a chilling effect on gardaí all over the country.
Gardaí were afraid last Thursday evening to draw their batons to protect themselves and others and to protect public and private property because they were afraid of being reprimanded at a later stage. In my view, that is breathtaking and deeply disturbing. They do not believe that the most senior police officer in the State has their back when things get difficult for them. If this is the new culture in An Garda Síochána - and, for sure, we needed to change culture - we have gone from bad to worse. Having listened to gardaí for the past couple of years and having analysed closely the failures of last Thursday, it is my view that it is time for a new Commissioner to be appointed. In order to rebuild confidence in the membership and develop policies and plans to tackle the challenges that confront the State right now, it is imperative that a new Commissioner is appointed.
I echo the expressions of sympathy to the Honan family on the loss of Tras Honan.
I also echo Senator Dooley’s comments about Dublin city. As a proud Dubliner, I am dismayed to see the city descend into anarchy as it did. I wrote an article in TheJournal.ie on 21 October in which I predicted precisely this set of circumstances. I think a Rubicon has been passed in that members of An Garda Síochána were targeted. That is a new phenomenon. Rioting has happened in our city centre but the deliberate targeting of An Garda Síochána is a new phenomenon, and it will happen again. It behoves us to take whatever measures are necessary to equip, support and resource An Garda Síochána to meet that threat; it is in all of our interests.
I wish to raise the issue of the Government’s Green Paper on disability reform. I am alarmed that this consultation process continues. I have been contacted by a large number of disabled persons’ organisations, DPOs, that are expressing deep concerns about the nature of the consultative process itself and some of the contributions made at the consultative process by guests invited by the Department of Social Protection.
This is a dystopian, dysfunctional document. I know it is a discussion paper but it only contains one suggestion, which is that we medically categorise all disabled citizens who are in receipt of disability allowance, which, at present is 225,000 people. It proposes to medically assess them over five years. They are people like my son, who cannot get a medical appointment, essential therapies, interventions and surgeries, and now the Government is proposing that we compel them to attend a medical assessment where they will be categorised on the basis of their ability to work. This is a functional, instrumental view of disabled people. It is the very definition of ableism and it flies in the face of the principles and aspirations as set out in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. I implore the Government to please desist. Drop this Bill. Drop this Green Paper because it will bring all the Government parties into disrepute.
It is a copy of an austerity policy rolled out in the UK. This week, the UK Government announced it will audit disabled persons’ social media accounts. If they can do a TikTok or a Facebook post, it can then be said that they can work remotely from their bedrooms.
This is a draconian, Dickensian set of proposals. At a time when we have one of the worst set of outcomes in Europe for disabled citizens, let us do something to help disabled citizens. We should make disability allowance a universal, non-means tested payment. It would be cost-neutral and it would help and support these people back into the workplace. Above all, I implore, in the time that is left of this Government, that we please fully ratify all protocols of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, as set out in the programme for Government.
I was held up on other business, so I missed what was said earlier. However, I wish to be associated with the words of sympathy to the family of Tras Honan. I had the privilege of serving in the Seanad some time ago with Tras Honan. She was a very distinguished person. She was a person of great eminence, great quality in her own right and great integrity. She had a real presence and leadership capacity, which was very apparent. She was a trailblazer for women, practical feminism, if you like, and the advancement of women in public life. I had the privilege of meeting her last year in Members’ company during the centenary celebrations. We met her family then too, as members will recall. They are a particularly nice family and it was nice to meet them. My sympathy to them. They can certainly be proud of Tras, all that she achieved, all that she stood for and all the values she espoused.
While I have not seen the programme - I will get the recording - I believe our colleague, Senator Flynn, distinguished herself on television last night. I did not see the programme but I was told about it this morning.
I was listening to "Liveline" in the car earlier. Seven or eight employees from the Holiday Inn at the top of O'Connell Street beside the Gresham, through no fault of the management of the Holiday Inn, in fairness, have had to be put on redundancy or have had to lose their jobs until the Holiday Inn is repaired from the vandalism of last week. The horrible fall-out from the events of last week is that these seven or eight people will be without work this Christmas. Hopefully they will get something in the interim. As of now, they are without work and without income. One lady was on the programme saying she would not be able to pay for her rent. It is a really grievous situation. This is the fall-out. There should be no illusions about what all this means. This the result of what those people from last week have been doing. It certainly will merit a strong and comprehensive response to deal with that. We cannot have ordinary, innocent, good people out of work over Christmas because of this kind of thing.
I too want to be associated with the expressions of sympathy for Tras Honan's family.
I welcome the release of Emily Hand and all of the hostages who have been released so far. I hope we will all agree that what we need is a permanent ceasefire at this point in time. We need to be absolutely clear about that, and all remaining hostages must be released, both those held by Hamas and those held by the Israeli Government. We should never forget the women and children and men interned without charge in Israeli jails. They too are hostages. All of them should be released. People often ask me, when they look at the despair and horror of what has been inflicted on the Palestinians, what we can do. This evening, we can do a real good by going to the Gig for Gaza at the 3Arena. There will be some wonderful acts there including our own comrade, Frances Black, but also Lankum, Damien Dempsey, the Mary Wallopers and Lisa O'Neill. I am looking forward to going this evening. It is a fundraiser for Medical Aid for Palestinians. I hope Senator McDowell will forgive me that I will not be around for the debate on the Oireachtas Library this evening. I just feel that is where I need to be tonight.
I want to refer briefly to the horrendous troubles of last week. I agree entirely with Senator Dooley that unfortunately, the Commissioner's position is now untenable. There is no question about that. Three days after the riots, on Sunday night, in the centre of Dublin, two pubs were accosted by a very dangerous man who was out of control and who attacked the bar staff. Both pubs rang for Garda assistance and no guards came. I am not blaming the Garda. We all know what this is about, the consistent lack of resources, the fact that we do not have enough gardaí on our streets. We can say that across all of our respective areas. It is certainly the case in Limerick. For that reason, I also have to say that the position of the Minister for Justice is also untenable. I know we are going to debate this tomorrow. I am citing what Fianna Fáil Senators have said off the record to journalists this week in terms of that fact. That image of her walking down Dublin city centre flanked by gardaí on either side has really come back to haunt her. The reality is that it has been a failure of the justice Ministry. There is no question about that now. Her position is untenable. We will have more to say about that tomorrow night but it is important to point it out.
I was going to talk about neutrality but I do not have time. I will come back to it tomorrow. I will formally call for a debate on the issue of the triple lock. The triple lock was part of the Seville declaration, which was absolutely central to the Nice referendum being passed the second time. That is the point. It was absolutely central to that referendum. The idea that Micheál Martin can just take it away without reference back to the people is entirely unacceptable and undemocratic. It does, of course, align Fianna Fáil once again with Fine Gael, its sister party. I certainly cannot see any difference between the parties these days.
I too want to be associated with the words of sympathy to Tras Honan's family. It was great to have her in our presence last year when we were celebrating the centenary of the Seanad. I extend my sympathies to all her family and friends.
Like so many others who live very close to the inner city of Dublin and who know many who attend the school and crèche where the young kids were caught up in the stabbing, we have been shattered by the events and the horror that was inflicted on those kids lining up, a routine that has happened every day of the school week for more than 20 years. I pay tribute in particular to the bravery of the crèche worker and to those who came to their aid. The irony of last Thursday is that an immigrant came to the aid of those children and the crèche workers who were trying to protect life in the face of attack.
Then there were the events of Thursday night and the wanton destruction of our city. That destruction of our city endangered the lives of bus drivers, Luas drivers and firefighters. Many retail and hospitality staff were intimidated and trapped in their workplaces for many hours. It also endangered the livelihoods of many going into this Christmas period. We owe an enormous debt of gratitude to the front-line gardaí who found themselves having to deal with that absolutely horrendous situation. I know gardaí who were off duty or on annual leave came from right around the country and responded to the call for help. It is a miracle that no one was killed.
What happened last Thursday night was a failure at the very top of An Garda Síochána to read the signs that have been there for many months. We have seen what happened in Finglas with the mob at the Garda station last February; the burning out of tents; what is happening in libraries in Cork and across the country; and indeed outside our own door in Leinster House a few weeks ago. I was on Parnell Square myself at 3 o'clock last Thursday and it was obvious then that there was going to be something very ugly that night. It was tense then. It was ugly by 3.30 p.m. and we knew that when darkness fell things would really take off.
There was a failure to properly resource An Garda Síochána. There was also a failure by the Government on Thursday night. For many months we have sat and watched one Government party take a lump out of another Government party with regard to policing in this country. We will do so no more. It is a whole-of-government failure in terms of how we resource An Garda Síochána with money, pay, and boots on the ground. In the Dublin north-central area, the number of gardaí now is 10% lower than what it was back in 2018. An Garda Síochána is running to stand still with regard to recruitment. The target numbers now are the same as what they were 17 years ago, yet the population has grown by 22%. That is an insane situation. There is a failure to properly resource community policing. We have had so many sweet words about the need to have community policing in place, yet when I look at the numbers, there were 71 community police in the north-central area in 2020 and there are only 29 now. That is a failure both for the top of An Garda Síochána but also the Government.
I am glad to see that we are having a debate tomorrow night, but that debate is not where it is at; there needs to be accountability. We have seen for many months, and Senator Clonan talked about the signs that evidently have been very there, what was going to happen. Last Thursday night was waiting to happen. It is a miracle that no lives were lost but we need to see changes because the people of Dublin are heartbroken at what happened and they will not tolerate this laissez-faire approach to policing any more. They want police on their streets. They do not feel safe and they want a visible policing presence in order that we can ensure that tourists and those living here can feel safe in our capital city.
Last Thursday was an absolute nightmare for the whole of the country.
I picked Billie up from crèche and, like every other mother in the country, I hugged her that little bit tighter. That could have been anybody's child. What happened last week could have happened in any part of the country. It was very unfortunate. The events of last Thursday night were driven by hatred, discrimination and xenophobia. It was just pure hatred. I know exactly what it is like. My community knows exactly what it is like to be the subject of hatred within Irish society. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, now needs to consider hate crime legislation. We need to pass hate crime legislation as soon as possible to be able to protect people in our country.
Is the Leader aware that last week the people in this House, Muslim women and people of colour and Black people were very nervous about going home? The Shelbourne Hotel made residence for its foreign workers. That should not be the case in Ireland in 2023. Keeping minority groups safe in this country is one of the best actions the Minister can do. With the amendments we are putting forward, all Members can support a hate crime Bill collectively.
Last night at 9.30 p.m. there was a documentary on RTÉ 1 about a young boy. I spoke about Patrick in this House last year. He was 12 years of age when he took his own life. He was a loved child and his family absolutely idolised him. They had taken him to the park that day. There were no signs of mental health issues with Patrick. Unfortunately, he took his own life due to bullying. Traveller women are six times more likely to die by suicide than women in the general population. Traveller men are seven times more likely to die by suicide than men in the general population. I am absolutely blue in the face from raising this issue through Commencement matters and at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Key Issues affecting the Traveller Community, trying my best with my colleagues in this House to hold the Government to account. There was a promise of Government that they would have a national Traveller strategy on mental health. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, really needs to talk to our community and not tell us that we were lucky we got recognition, and not tell us how lucky we are and how far we have come. We need action now. We do not want more children in our community dying by suicide, and no more older people dying by suicide in our community. There is so much addiction and poverty. We can actually be part of making Travellers' lives easier within Irish society. I am calling for a debate and for the Minister of State to come in to the House so it is not left just for me, the Traveller Senator, to do, and it is left for all of us to do because Patrick could have been anybody's child. As I said last night on that documentary, if Traveller children are given the opportunity to be successful, they would be successful. Unfortunately, those opportunities are not there yet.
I also wish to be associated with the comments about the former Cathaoirleach, Tras Honan. She was a trailblazer in her own right and had connections to my home town, Clonmel and Tipperary. Her sister Carrie Acheson was also a T.D. for a period. I offer my condolences to her family and her extended family, including the Barlows in Clonmel, on her very sad passing. She was inspirational to so many people right across the country but in particular in Tipperary. In my own family, my mother was young starting in politics. While Tras and Carrie were obviously in an Opposition party, as women they were a huge inspiration for her to get into politics. I pass on my condolences to all her family.
I welcome the announcements this week from the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Heather Humphreys regarding the once-off payments, in particular, the €400 carer support grant, the €200 living alone lump sum, and €100 qualified child lump sum. This is another tranche of once-off payments that were agreed in the budget by the Government. They are payments in recognition of the challenges that particular groups are going through with the cost of living through the winter period. Most importantly, these are payments that seemingly the Opposition did not think were worthwhile for these groups of people.
It will be very welcome coming on the back of what has already been announced in the budget. It will go a long way to cushioning the challenges the cost-of-living crisis has created for those groups. Does the Leader agree that these payments, between now and Christmas and afterwards for the first time ever, are very important? I welcome that.
I agree with most of my colleagues who have spoken about the incident on Thursday in Dublin. Most people were horrified by what happened but have been inspired by some of our citizens and some of our non-national residents who stood up to defend people against the most atrocious of crimes that we never thought would take place here.
Since then there has been much commentary. As yet, An Garda Síochána has not published a report or conclusions as to what happened. Unfortunately, many people, particularly politicians, seem to come up with their own conclusions very quickly. Obviously, that is understandable from the Opposition, but there has been commentary from this side of the House regarding the Garda Commissioner and his appointment being a political one by a political party. It is important that the Senator in question clarifies those comments. Tomorrow would be a good platform to do so because the public needs to be reassured that such an important appointment as that of the Garda Commissioner is done independently and is not a political appointment.
I knew Tras Honan very well. I send my sympathies to her family and the Fianna Fáil Party. I first met her in 1982 at the funeral of Dr. Bill Loughnane in Ennis in County Clare. By golly, she was a feisty, determined, pragmatic, driven and focused politician. She loved the Seanad. When she had the opportunity she opted not to succeed Bill Loughnane in the by-election of 1982, which was won, surprise, surprise, by Donal Carey against the Fianna Fáil odds. I met her, along with Síle de Valera of whom she was a great champion. Tras was a republican in the true sense of the word. She came from a very republican family. Anyone who travelled to the ploughing championships would have known her sister, Carrie Acheson. Before we ever heard of the words "continuity announcer", we had Carrie Acheson with a Tannoy announcing that she was a continuity announcer. Carrie was making announcements about anyone who was lost or found at the championships. I dare say it because I am similar myself, she quite liked the sound of her own voice. She was a character. Anyone who met her will remember her. She was elected to the Tipperary constituency for a very short period. One of the great things is that both women were in the Oireachtas at the same time. What a proud achievement.
Tras Honan had a huge interest in the Seanad. She used to say that her place was in the Seanad. She had no ambition to go anywhere else. She put every ounce of her energy into this House. She used it creatively and successfully, and had a wonderful profile. As we know, and many have said, she was a trailblazer. She was Cathaoirleach of the Seanad on two occasions. How fitting of then Cathaoirleach to invite her back to this House last year. The image of the blue-eyed Tras shining through the photo montage at the bottom of the Seanad stairs says everything about her. She was a leading role model, an example, for young women in politics. She was a particularly pragmatic woman and it was a pleasure to know her.
Tras was a great motivator and supporter of Síle de Valera who moved from Dublin County Mid, as it was known at that time, back to a different constituency, the Banner County. That was a big thing at the time. After the by-election, Síle de Valera successfully won a Dáil seat in the subsequent general election, which she held for years.
I knew Tras well. She was a wonderful politician. She set the bar high in this House. I hope more women will come into this House and more women will sit in the Cathaoirleach's chair. Hopefully by the time we elect our next Cathaoirleach, we will have a secret ballot. We do not have it yet but I made a strong case for it last year. In the Dáil, the Lower House, there is a secret ballot for the position of Ceann Comhairle. It would be fitting, when we think of Tras Honan and her contribution, if we were to collaborate to have the Cathaoirleach of this House elected by secret ballot as well.
Hopefully, there will be many women candidates that we can consider in the next Seanad election.
Like others, I want to express my sympathies and condolences to the family of Tras Honan. May she rest in peace.
Today I want to speak to the appalling events that took place in my constituency and my community last Thursday. I want to start by talking and thinking about the children, their families and their carers and everybody at Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire on Parnell Square. It has been so shocking and upsetting for everybody. As a parent, it is just unimaginable to think of your child at that age going to school, coming out and being attacked in broad daylight on what is one of the busiest streets in our country. It is beside one of Europe's biggest and busiest maternity hospitals and off our capital's main street. It was a completely and utterly unacceptable event on any level. The opportunistic and exploitative violence that continued after that had absolutely nothing to do with my community, the north inner city or Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire, is to be condemned utterly. It is wrong to try to blame gardaí or politicians for what happened. It is just to be outright condemned and I challenge any politician to say otherwise.
Hear, hear. Well said.
All of our energies should be going on addressing what caused it and ensuring it never happens again. We need to have an uncompromising response to crime and antisocial behaviour in our communities. It was my community last week but it will be other Senators' communities another day. Unless, as a society, we have an uncompromising response to crime and antisocial behaviour, it will continue. This is about tackling the small, casual, opportunistic criminal and antisocial behaviour such as drug dealing, drug distribution, illegal dumping and unmuzzled dangerous animals with no leads in public spaces. It is all of that and it is also about resourcing our gardaí, making sure they have body cams, can use the technology and share the data. We need a safe city. We demand a safe city and country and anything short of that is unacceptable to the people of my community and of this city.
I was not going to speak today but I want to preface the discussions that will take place tomorrow by saying that we need to be very careful and nuanced in how we engage in this conversation because in terms of what happened last week, it is not one holistic group that shows up in any arena. Senators have said that we need to say that we demand a safe city but we have to understand that people engage in intense emotional reactions to things. They cannot regulate their own understanding of what they are being fed in their communities but they are our community too. The men that went through those shop windows are us. We are them. How do we create safety for them? It is not through policing. Nobody polices their way out of poverty. Nobody polices their way out of being able to read into the narratives that are being fed to them by actual fascists, who then stand back and watch our brothers, cousins and neighbours be the ones who get pointed at, called scumbags, thugs and opportunists for burning down a Luas tram, which none of us agrees with. We have to understand that this is not traceable back to that one moment in time. Violence does not resolve violence, oppression does not resolve oppression and division does not end division, whether we like the means by which people do things or not. The problem is that the structural violence of this House for generations and generations, which has left generations behind, will be responded to with violence. It has happened for centuries. When people are left behind, they have nothing to lose.
When they stand on the street and ask will I-----
What is the Senator's problem with what I am saying?
The Senator, without interruption.
What is the problem?
They should be jailed.
The Senator, without interruption, please.
What is the Senator's problem with what I am saying?
They should be jailed but the Government gave them bail.
I am sorry; the Senator without interruption. The only time a Senator can interrupt another Senator is if he or she asks permission.
I did not interrupt the Senator. What I am saying is that we do not end anything by further ostracising people. It is not how it works, even the people with whom we completely disagree. Our communities are turning on each other and eating each other up while we all sit here and have debates. We call for more police while they are the ones who are still suffering. People with nothing are killing and destroying people with nothing. None of them have anything. They have nothing to lose and they are eating each other up. We are all super privileged to be able to stand in this Chamber and say, "I know what is needed - police". We have had police for decades and it has not ended any of it. We need to take responsibility for generations of failing communities that can be manipulated by people who are intentionally racist and trying to call division.
I was going to hold my comments about what has happened in the last week until tomorrow night's debate but I will follow on from the points made by Senators Fitzpatrick and Ruane, both of whose views I respect immensely. I am not from the north inner city. I have family connections there and know it well to a certain extent, but I am conscious that I am speaking about it from a completely different part of this island of Ireland. One thing that has frustrated me at times in the last couple of days is the narrative around this being the north inner city uprising and the north inner city pushing back perhaps because of some of the points made by Senator Ruane. I accept that is certainly part of the issue.
I actually looked at the addresses of the 50 people who were arrested and brought to court over the weekend. We might look at the addresses, which include Dún Laoghaire, Churchtown, Dundrum, Longford, Navan, Malahide, Crumlin, Finglas and Drogheda. There were other addresses as well from the north inner city. I will-----
I want to make it clear that they were charged but have not yet been tried and convicted.
They should be convicted.
I accept where we are in the legal process and I take the Leas-Chathaoirleach's guidance on that.
The point that I am trying to make is that this was not just one community going out looting and causing problems and hassle. It was people who came to an area of violence that had kicked off. They were people from different communities, backgrounds and socioeconomic backgrounds who came to cause one thing and that was trouble. However, some people in the media and elsewhere or just in general Irish society would have us believe that this was just one geographical section of the country kicking off when that is really not the case and it is not fair at all.
I will not have a chance to mention what I was planning to say. I will save that for tomorrow. I am really looking forward to hearing all sides of the debate in our discussion about it tomorrow night.
I will try to stick to my script in case I actually say something that might really offend somebody.
Many political leaders reacted to the horrific attack on the children last Thursday by saying it was a shock attack that no-one could have seen coming. Of course, this is untrue. Most of us with our heads not buried in the sand knew this was coming. Many Irish people have been unhappy with the state of affairs for some time. They have made their views known in dozens of peaceful protests and walks across the country. Hundreds and thousands of ordinary men, women and children have been using their voice in the only way they have available to them - by democratically and legally protesting and assembling. These people have no seat at the table. They do not have an ear for their ideologically captured political representatives. They do not sit on company boards or run highly funded NGOs. They have no master's degree in political science from Trinity College Dublin. They are just ordinary Irish families so, of course, the Government ignored them. However, when people are denied meaningful dialogue around concerns they know are reasonable, they are driven to unreasonableness. The explosion of unrest last week was the pressure release valve bursting. This Government has done everything in its power to craft and maintain a social environment where the discussion of its own failings in the area of immigration is taboo. It has been a marvellous piece of propaganda but the jig is up now. The genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting it back.
That is right. You have been unmasked.
The Senator, without interruption, please.
The Government will let slip the mask and resort to the State's monopoly on force to enforce ideological orthodoxy through its hate speech legislation. Now, the eyes of the world are on Ireland. I do not believe the Government truly knows how much of a turning point this is.
I fear for what will happen but let it be known that there were many chances for things to go differently but that the Government did not take them. Tomorrow's motion by Fine Gael Members is nothing short of disgraceful. The first mention of the victims is on the very last line of the motion. It is absolutely disgraceful. It is just political theatre.
I wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy on the passing of Tras Honan. While I did not know Tras, I knew her sister, Carrie Acheson, very well through my involvement with the National Ploughing Championships. I send my sympathies to the entire family.
Today, I will raise an issue I feel very strongly about. It is related to the events of last Thursday. Since those events, I have written to the director general of RTÉ and to the Minister for communications but I have received no response. I ask the Leader to use her offices to aid me in getting a response as to why our national broadcaster felt the need to announce the exact location of the alleged perpetrator on the 9 p.m. news when the situation was still very volatile. All Garda spokespersons and representatives interviewed said the alleged perpetrator was in a hospital in the greater Dublin area. It was very dangerous reporting by RTÉ to announce the exact hospital in which that individual was located when things were still very volatile and when the situation was ongoing. We all talk about how social media has been used to rile up these mobs and to accumulate them. It is blamed for starting a lot of these events. This was reckless reporting. I commend RTÉ and I know that its reporters put themselves in danger and that people deserve to get reporting but I want to know why our national broadcaster made this decision when An Garda Síochána was not announcing the exact location for operational reasons. Announcing the location while the situation was still volatile and ongoing could have had serious consequences for front-line staff, patients and security people at that hospital. I have asked the question but have not received an answer. Perhaps, through the offices of the Leader, I might be able to get an answer or explanation as to why this decision was made at such a dangerous time.
I came up here to talk about security but Senator Ruane has sent me off on another track. She is 100% correct. We have let communities down in areas. I lived in Limerick for a number of years and there were two estates whose residents were constantly referred to as troublemakers, scumbags and so on. In Galway city, there were similar estates and there are areas in Dublin that are similarly regarded as tough places to grow up in. That is no excuse. Some people who come out of tough areas excel. However, if we are honest about it, we are living in a world where your address matters and it is extremely difficult for some people to break out. I spent 23 years of my life teaching and some of the kids I taught were excellent, top-quality kids but found it difficult to get work because of their address. I remember two girls I taught in Limerick studying in the college at 9.30 p.m. I asked them why they were there and they said they had nowhere else to study. They could not bring their books home because they would be ridiculed by those living around them. I asked them what their ambition was and they said it was to get as far away from that goddamn city as they could.
We can call for the heads of the Garda Commissioner and the Minister but, from my perspective, that is just absolute nonsense. What is that going to solve? It is great politics for outside and it is lovely for the media to report that so-and-so called for the Commissioner's head but the truth is that we have let communities down and we have let the security services down as well. We have run them into the ground. Their pension schemes are rubbish and their terms and conditions are becoming more and more rubbish. It is becoming a career that people no longer want any part of. Whatever happened to the days when one garda could walk down a street and people would behave themselves? I remember being in Salthill one night when a row broke out in a dance hall and one garda standing in the middle of the park in Salthill had the two factions separated, one to either side, and nobody moved. That was when we had respect for gardaí. However, you cannot get respect for gardaí if you do not have respect for the citizens they are policing. I want us to get away from this nonsense about firing Ministers or firing the Commissioner. They are doing their jobs just like the rest of us. Maybe we should go back 25 or 30 years and start to resource these areas and the police force correctly.
Hear, hear.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach.
Like others, I would like to pay tribute to the late Tras Honan, the first female Cathaoirleach of Seanad Éireann. She was a great Clare woman, politician and lady. She had a great life and as a result of the great work the Leas-Chathaoirleach did last year with Seanad 100, we had the opportunity to meet Tras, say "Hello" to her and learn a lot from her about what happened in the House in the 1980s when she was Cathaoirleach. It is a sad day for her family but, at the same time, it is a celebration of life. She lived a long and good life and her contribution to politics, both in County Clare and nationally, is something that needs to be recognised and noted, particularly her becoming the first Clare person and the first female to chair the Seanad. I pay tribute to the Leas-Chathaoirleach for his initiative last year that brought former Senator and Cathaoirleach, Tras Honan, back to the House and gave all of us the opportunity to meet her and spend time with her. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a hanam.
I thank all Members who contributed to the Order of Business. All Members spoke about Tras Honan, her fantastic legacy and her contribution to this House. Our thoughts, prayers and sympathies are with her family. As I said at the outset, I will propose a motion on that at the end of the Order of Business. I thank Members for the lovely words and stories they recounted about her service. I interacted with her and her sister on a personal and work basis. I am sure we will have an opportunity at a later stage to have more full statements on her memory, hopefully with her family in attendance.
Senator Dooley spoke this morning, as did pretty much all other Senators, about what are being called "the Dublin riots", for want of a better phrase, or the events of last Thursday in our capital city. I agree with Senator Flynn that all of us across the country were deeply upset by what we saw because it is our capital, whether we live or work here or not. It is the country's capital city and it reflects on all of us. We were all deeply saddened by what we saw on Thursday.
I was in the capital on Thursday night. I would not usually be here at that time but I was on the streets and I got a message that buildings here were being evacuated. I rang the gate and Leinster House was not being evacuated at that point but staff in Agriculture House and Kildare House were asked to leave to 4 p.m., so there was an appreciation at that stage in the day that something was brewing and staff were worried and awaiting instructions. As one person said to me, there were roving gangs on the streets of Dublin. I got off the streets and did not go back to the office because for the first time ever I was genuinely frightened while being up here. I got back to the hotel as quickly as I could and I could smell the burning on the streets as I walked back there. It is a day do not think I will ever forget. There were people running down Nassau Street; it was remarkable.
I want to pay tribute - and I will have a chance to do so more fully tomorrow during the Fine Gael Private Members' motion - to the members of An Garda Síochána who were on the streets that night and who responded to the call to back up their colleagues who were in trouble. Whatever about the rest of us on the streets, it must have been truly frightening for the gardaí who took to the streets to protect all of us and to restore order, which they did, in incredibly challenging circumstances. I am sure their families were equally concerned for their safety. It was an extraordinary night for all of the wrong reasons.
I did not disagree with much of what was said across the House, even though there are different perspectives. Most of what was said is true. We are all united in utter condemnation of the violence we saw. I agree with Senator Fitzpatrick's comments on the events. I mention those poor children. It has been reported that one girl has received catastrophic injuries and is still receiving treatment. Thankfully the other two children have been released but their carer is still in hospital. Our thoughts are first and foremost with those children, their families and the school community at Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire on Parnell Square. They will recover from this but they are recovering from what was a traumatic situation. We are all united in condemning what happened on Thursday night. There will be an opportunity tomorrow, and over the coming days and weeks I am sure, to discuss this. There are questions to be answered. I have no doubt that the Minister and the Garda Commissioner will be forthcoming in answering them. There are reasonable questions to be asked and answered and that will happen. The public will want reassurance on that front.
I agree with the comments that we had far-right elements or people motivated by far-right ideology present last Thursday. From some of the stuff I saw online, a lot of racism and hatred fuelled what happened.
Then there were others who were brought along on the night, for whatever reason. On the points made by Senator Ruane around communities feeling disenfranchised, people do not act like that from nowhere but at the same time, the law is the law. We cannot condone the looting of businesses. I am not sure what somebody was trying to achieve by stealing runners out of Foot Locker, ASICS or wherever. That certainly was not in solidarity with the children who were stabbed that day. There is a lot for us to process as a country in the days and weeks ahead, and we will do that. We will need to see some more detail from the Garda Commissioner and the Minister on that front. I note the comments by Senator Dooley, and I am sure that is shared by many as well. I also note that others do not agree with that. There will be a role for reassuring gardaí, and I agree that gardaí are afraid to act and protect themselves. We know that many of the newly-trained gardaí are sent to Dublin first, so it is a pretty intense situation to have to deal with, and it requires specific training to deal with those types of situations. We will need to reassess that because ultimately, gardaí have to be kept safe in order to keep the rest of us safe.
I will leave it at that. We will have an opportunity tomorrow to have fuller discussions, and we will hear from the Minister and the Garda Commissioner in due course. My understanding is that both have been invited to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice. Even if they are not members of the committee, Senators will have an opportunity to attend there as well.
It clashes somewhat with the session.
Does it? I have no control over that element of it but I appreciate what the Senator is saying. That will be an important engagement for us as well. The public is looking on for us to lead on this, and to not go down a path that brings more division and hatred into the country. We are at a crossroads now on that front, so we have a lot of work to do in that regard.
I will touch upon some of the other issues that were raised by Senators. Senator Clonan raised the issue of the Green Paper on disability reform. He has acknowledged that it is a discussion paper. I know there are a lot of challenges with it, and I will request a debate with the Minister of State, Deputy Butler on that topic. It is unlikely that we will have her in before the end of the term. We have a lot of legislation to get through, and we only have two to three weeks of sittings left. We will try to get that early in the new term.
I do not think she is for turning on it but can we have a debate on just ratifying the protocol?
We can certainly request a debate on disability in general because there are other issues that have come up over the course of the Order of Business going weeks back, which Senators want to raise regarding that sector. We will get a debate that will allow Senators to raise those issues, so we will ask her for that and try to get it booked in for the new term.
I thank the Leader.
Senator Joe O'Reilly spoke very passionately about Tras Honan. I think he served with her, as did many other Senators.
Senator Gavan asked for a debate on the triple lock, and he might raise that tomorrow. My views are different from his, and there are no surprises there. The triple lock is an outdated policy. My own view is that because it requires a UN resolution and the five permanent members of the Security Council can veto a UN resolution - they are the UK, the US, France, Russia and China - I do not think they should have a veto over our foreign policy; that is my position on it. There is an attempt, at times, to link that to our military neutrality position. Changing the triple lock does not change the military neutrality position the country holds but it gives us greater flexibility and agility to respond. I was reading a piece by Declan Power in a weekend newspaper. We have been asked to respond to missions to evacuate citizens out of conflict zones, and we have not been able to send more than 12 troops without a UN resolution. It is not workable in the geopolitical situation we find ourselves in today. We can request a debate on that, and I will try to get the Tánaiste in on that but the Senator must bear in mind that the Tánaiste has directed his Department to draft legislation. When that comes in to the House, we will of course have a full debate and Senators can make their views known. With regard to changing the policy, it is at the very early stages and we do not yet have legislation but it will be coming through the House.
I also want to concur with Senator Gavan's remarks regarding Emily Hand. It is fantastic to see her release. I hope that she makes a full recovery from her traumatic experience. I can only imagine what her father, Tom Hand and her family went through. It was absolute torture to see what was happening. It was incredible news that she was released. At some points none of us thought that day was going to happen, so it is really great. It was a glimmer of hope in what is a horrible situation, and I concur with the Senator's calls for a permanent ceasefire. The more time that we get, the better, and I hope it stays as it is.
Senator Sherlock also spoke about the riots in Dublin city centre. I have dealt with that and, as I said, we will come back to it.
Senator Flynn spoke very passionately about suicide within the Traveller community. The Senator is right. I will request a debate on that, and she is right that she should not be the only person in the House debating that issue. It is not just on her shoulders to advocate for mental health supports for members of the Travelling community.
Hear, hear.
I thank her for checking all of us on that because it is important to be reminded that is not just her issue, but an issue for all of us. The statistics and numbers speak for themselves. I again extend our sympathies to the family of Patrick, the young boy who lost his life at 12 years of age. I can only imagine how traumatic it is for his family to be dealing with that. That age is far too young for someone to lose his life, and so many others as well. We will request a debate with the Minister but, again it will probably be in the new term. I look forward to many Members participating in that debate.
Senator Ahearn welcomed the payments coming through this week for the cost of living measures, such as the carer’s support grant, the qualified child increase and the living alone allowance. These are very important payments at a crucial time of year. That will be a big help to many families across the board.
Senator Keogan took a particular view on immigration. Again, that will come into the debate tomorrow, when there will be an opportunity. I think the Senator is right that this is a topic that is being discussed among ordinary, middle ground people, and we are going to have to allow politicians to discuss it openly and honestly. We should not be shying away from those issues. It is putting pressure on the country but, overall, as a society, I think people want to do the right thing and they want to help. However, that does not mean we cannot have conversations about what people are talking about on the streets. That is very important.
Senator Paul Daly asked for particular assistance with getting information. I too thought it was strange that that information was broadcast at that particular time. There are only a handful of hospitals that person could have been in and it could have prompted rioters to go in that direction. Perhaps it just was not considered at the time, in the heat of what was happening. However, the Senator is right to point out that it was probably too detailed at that particular time to give out such information because it would not be difficult to find out where that person was. It is an important point to raise on the floor of the House.